Quick rant on the sex/violence double standard

[Soveliss]

Okay, so this is strictly my personal point of view, but what is up with society when it comes to violence and sex???

So you can literally have a video game/movie about killing everyone in gory ways, and we as a society are perfectly okay with that as long as it's properly labeled. I don't have a problem with that.

But as soon as a video game/movie shows coitus, now there's a problem???

Why is it okay to show the Joker being a complete madman and killing someone by shoving a pencil through the victim's eye just because he enjoys it, but not okay to show two loving people having sex?

Also, by the way, assuming both sex and violence scenes are harmful to children (to be honest I don't know much about the subject), wouldn't educating parents about it be a better choice than going after movie makers/game devs? How many stories are there on Not Always Right about parents buying GTA for their 10 Y/O kids or bringing a 6 Y/O kid to a South Park movie where the title itself is a freaking dick joke?

Sorry, had to do my quick rant on the subject.

[SithLordOfSnark]

I totally agree with you. The double standard is just stupid.

[HairyHeretic]

“I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.”

― George R.R. Martin

[Oniya]

“I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.”

― George R.R. Martin

Depends on whose axe and whose skull, but aaaaaanyways...

And you don't even have to go so far as coitus.  Show naked boobs, and the movie is instantly 'not appropriate for children'.  Never mind that half of them are going to develop them, and a certain age-group is more likely to think 'Mmm, lunch!'  (Look Who's Talking reference there.)

[HannibalBarca]

The Puritan roots of the U.S show through in this.  There's plenty of violence in the Bible, much of it approved by Yahweh for the Israelites to visit on neighboring tribes.  There's sex in the Bible, too, but there are a lot more injunctions against sex.  The female body, and females in general, are considered property of fathers, then husbands, in the Bible, so someone else seeing what you own was frowned upon.  After all, Yahweh says himself he's a jealous god, and don't believers want to emulate their deity?

Not everyone in the U.S. is Christian, but it's at the roots of the nation's history, so it's no surprise that many of the ingrained mores trend in that directions.  American Christianity is its own odd breed, compared to the Christianity of the old world.

[Regina Minx]

Show naked boobs, and the movie is instantly 'not appropriate for children'.  Never mind that half of them are going to develop them...

You sound just like my parents. "Just wait, sweetie. You'll get breasts one day."  >:(

[Oniya]

You sound just like my parents. "Just wait, sweetie. You'll get breasts one day."  >:(

I never said which half!  I'm sure someone is out there who got mine!

[Sara Nilsson]

You sound just like my parents. "Just wait, sweetie. You'll get breasts one day."  >:(

and the Boob Fairy song by Diedre Flint springs to mind.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

linked for child content

It is funny, if you even seem to flash a breast or nipple and people freak out (hi facebook). But report hatespeak (we should round up all faggots and kill them!) and it doesn't violate their TOS. Breastfeed, banhammer! Fucking breastfeed! But a scantily clad woman that just barely covers the naughty bits in a commercial, that is fine. After 11 years in this country and I still don't understand it, in Europe we are far more relaxed about it (in general).

[RedRose]

I'm on various movies and books groups and the topic is often discussed. Some consider that light violence (not crazy gore) isn't going to have any influence. Or that kids witness light violence IRL anyway. Others want to ban both, or neither.

[Lustful Bride]

Personally I think it depends on the amount of violence as well as how it is portrayed. Is it 'Army of Darkness' or 'original evil dead' ?  :P

One treats the gore and violence in a wacky way that's part of the comedy, while the other basks in blood an violence in a grindhouse fashion. 

As for the sexual content...same thing. Depends on how its handled. If its tasteful and artsy I can see it done. But if its like super hardcore I wouldn't want anyone younger seeing it.

But then again it also depends on the viewer. I remember seeing Starship Troopers with dad when I was around 9 to 10. That movie has war, gore, and T&A. I wasn't traumatized or anything, in fact as soon as it was over I wanted to see more. X3

But I think I turned out fine. :P

[DominantPoet]

I remember when I went to see A Perfect Getaway back in 09. I live in Canada, and the movie was rated 14A. For the most part, the movie is pretty tame, aside from one scene involving Steve Zhan's character late in the movie, where

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

he literally gets his hand cleaved in half right down the middle!

It didn't bother me any, but it was just so out of the blue, and it's very vivid and shows it quite prominently, and before then, 14A typically meant you had, at worst, Mortal Kombat levels of violence in a movie, or a fair amount of swearing. Not Saw levels of gore at any point in the movie, even if only for a minute or so. And that's precisely what it reminded me, a scene from one of the earlier Saw movies, where to progress through a door, people have to literally do that to themselves. Granted, it's much more drawn out, with copious amounts of blood there, but still.

And what really got me about it was I remembered back when Hannibal came out back in 01, 8 years earlier. That movie had an R rating, which in Canada is like NC-17 for the US, you absolutely cannot go in if you're under 18, no exceptions, doesn't matter if someone wants to take you in, you can't. And...there was nothing terribly horrible in that movie, ultimately, not that was shown on screen. What was shown on screen was incredibly brief.

So gore, especially, has become more relaxed and prominent. I mean, you can see stuff in series like American Gods on TV that is gory as all hell now. Ash vs Evil Dead has copious amounts of gore and guts and blood and what not. TV also. Granted, not mainstream cable, but still - 15 years ago, that would have been a hell of a big NO!

Yet sexual stuff is still...kind of in a weird limbo. You can have a lot of explicit stuff, or very strong implications of something sexually, in shows like Outlander, and American Gods, and Game of Thrones - but movies, and especially video games, generally...sex is still very, very taboo for some odd reason.

Then, of course, you have Japan...polar opposite in many ways, sexual stuff, aside from depictions of genitals in anime/hentai, perfectly fine! Blood and gore, MUCH more frowned upon over there (despite numerous animes with lots of blood and gore, when aired, they can be heavily edited to block that stuff). And yet, even given their seemingly more relaxed nature towards sexuality and sex in general, you still get animes and other shows that are overly ecchi, and are heavily censored when first aired.

So a lot of it can certainly be extremely confusing and quite seemingly contradictory the world over.

[MoonDust]

I'm assuming you're referring to the standards in America, in which case, I completely agree with you. I, personally, think America's standards for what is considered "taboo" versus what is considered the "status quo" is completely ridiculous. However, I think it is just a cultural thing-- as stupid as it may be. Just look at the relationship between the American and Chinese film industries-- what we consider reasonable to show on screen is VASTLY different from what the Chinese believe. The little spat between Tarantino and the Chinese government clearly shows that.
Background if you don't know what I'm talking about: Even having cut out certain gory scenes and altering the color of the blood in his film Django Unchained, the film was still pulled from the theatres in China on the first day (most likely for nudity).

Anyway, for America specifically, I know we like to say that we have the clear separation between church and state here, but it's clear that that (don't you love English) isn't the case. Take pornography, for example. It's obviously catered to men because there is this stereotype that men have certain cravings that the just can't control while women are still supposed to be these pious, submissive, and non-sexual creatures (gags). Either way, the point I'm trying to get across is that we Americans have our ideals and values, our very ANCIENT ideals and values, which, from the beginning, have shown that we, the conservative majority, praise war and strength and condemn all ideas of sexuality. After all, were supposed to be the big, tough nation right? It really just cracks me up that nudity in films is suddenly okay when its a woman shown full-frontal, but a penis is considered to be far too explicit to show in a movie or on television. Whatever, I'm rambling.. Moral of the story, even though we are, as a nation, progressing in regards to normalizing sexuality in the media, our country, as a whole, is still pretty conservative. The hesitation to let go of those nearly prehistoric ideals and values that were put into place hundreds of years ago is just a hindrance to self-expression and creativity.

But, hey, I'm probably wrong anyway. Let's just keep crucifying the media because parents can't seem to control their own children.  ;)

[Beorning]

After 11 years in this country and I still don't understand it, in Europe we are far more relaxed about it (in general).

Well, it depends which parts of Europe you speak of, I suppose.

Also, note that - for example - Germany's anti-violence laws may be a bit on the absurd side, too.

[TheGlyphstone]

If social media is any indication, clearly all we need to do to reverse this trend is coin a suitably catchy Twitter hashtag and make it go viral. How about #ButtsNotGuts?

[Sara Nilsson]

If social media is any indication, clearly all we need to do to reverse this trend is coin a suitably catchy Twitter hashtag and make it go viral. How about #ButtsNotGuts?

*spews soda all over the screen*

Darn you!!! I just bought this monitor last month! Well I guess it is baptized now

[SithLordOfSnark]

*spews soda all over the screen*

Darn you!!! I just bought this monitor last month! Well I guess it is baptized now

I almost had a mouthful of coffee when I read it, but I learned not to drink while reading anything on E.

[Lustful Bride]

I have to wonder though, is it really even that big of a deal? Every country and culture has its own standards for what is unacceptable in entertainment. Is that such a bad thing? I don't agree with the levels of censorship in China but I'm not living under their laws. :/

[Soveliss]

I just had to make this rant after several companies seem to drop support for amateur or small studio eroge (not just slap "adult only" on the whole thing and let people ignore this at their own risk, but actively discouraging eroge on their platforms) but strangely enough blood and guts are still okay. I mean it's freaking fiction!!! It's not like any real persons are hurt by it, so let people have their wank in the privacy of their own homes already!

[Sara Nilsson]

I just had to make this rant after several companies seem to drop support for amateur or small studio eroge (not just slap "adult only" on the whole thing and let people ignore this at their own risk, but actively discouraging eroge on their platforms) but strangely enough blood and guts are still okay. I mean it's freaking fiction!!! It's not like any real persons are hurt by it, so let people have their wank in the privacy of their own homes already!

Steam is thankfully getting better at it. Sure they still won't allow graphic sex but at least games like my beloved visual novels can now have blurred graphic scenes and the company can have links to the 18+ patch in the forum. But yeah when you compare to all the guts, gore, and outright torture that exists in many other games it seems silly to ban a game for showing a nipple or two.