D&D for EVIL Characters/Party

[OldSchoolGamer]

I've always wanted to flip the script and DM for a party of evil characters (or at least a couple evil characters in their own thread).  I am somewhat loose in how I interpret "evil" as an alignment, so just because a character is labeled "evil" doesn't mean said character has to spend every moment of his existence raping, killing and pillaging.  I view "evil" as willing to take advantage of or hurt innocent others to achieve a goal.

The characters in this game would advance and level up just like normal characters in a typical D&D game.  The system I would use is Second Edition.  This may rub some people the wrong way, but I just really don't have the time or inclination to learn Third and Fourth.  The system itself isn't critically important anyway, as I view story to be more important than system.

[shadowheart]

I'm in!

Evil, oh yes I can do evil. :)

and 2E is one I have some familiarity with (and now have the PDFs of the gamebooks).

What setting are we talking about, out of curiosity?

[VandalSavage]

I am most definitely interested in this.  Do cement me a spot, if you would.

I eagerly await more details as to setting and storyline.

[OldSchoolGamer]

The setting is the frontier town of Oldsted, which is run by an empire that is currently in decline.  (In other words, the garrison there is powerful enough to fend off lower-level villains and act as a foil, but weak enough that higher-level villains could wrest control of Oldsted...my way as a DM of giving you something to aspire to, if you wish.)  The town has a decent economy of silver and iron mining, with arable land and a lesser river.

My interpretation of rules tends to be somewhat loose; I view the system as existing to support the story, not the other way 'round.  Mainly the system is there to rough out the boundaries of character power, to prevent "you hit me, no you didn't, yes I did" situations, and to provide "goodies" to aspire to (remember your first game of D&D and that first +1 weapon or potion you discovered...ah, those were the days...)  One element I add is "boons, quirks and banes," which are modifiers applied to characters based on background and conduct during a game.  For instance, a character who runs from battle a couple times might get the bane "Doubtful Courage," which would give a -10% to the loyalty of henchmen and hirelings.  On the other hand, a character who had grown up in hardscrabble circumstances might get the boon "Brawler," which would give her a +1 to hit and +1 on damage in unarmed combat.  A character who charges into battle with little regard for the odds might get the quirk "Hard Charger," giving a +1 to hit on the first attack of a battle, but also assigning a penalty of +1 to his A.C. for that round.  Banes are bad, quirks roughly neutral, and boons are good.  Characters can also advance through notches in a boon, quirk or bane:

Notch 1: "Brawler."  This character has seen her fair share of fights in her rough life. +1 to hit and +1 on damage when fighting unarmed.
Notch 2: "Scrapper." This character is inured to a life fighting for respect on the streets.  +2 to hit, +1 on damage, crits on a 19 or 20 when fighting unarmed.
Notch 3: "Martial Artist."  This character has shown her aptitude, battle-tested and time-hardened, to getting down and dirty in everything from ambushes to bar-room brawls. +2 to hit, +2 on damage, crits on a 19 or 20, 25% chance to disarm opponent when fighting unarmed.

I usually assign new characters a boon, a quirk, and a bane.

For ability scores, I use a point-buy system.  You get 75 points.  15s cost 16, 16s 18, 17s 20, and 18s 22.


Characters may be from any one of the following races.  Since some are inherently more powerful than others, I have added mods to try and even things out.

human (no mods)
goblin (gets two extra ability score points and one extra boon notch)
orc
ogre (+2 to STR, +1 to CON, -1 to INT, gets one less ability score point and one extra bane notch)
troll (regeneration, +1 to STR, -1 to WIS, gets two less ability score points, two extra bane notches, and a -10% penalty to XP)
gnoll
hill giant (+3 to STR, +1 to CON, -1 to DEX, gets three less ability score points, three extra bane notches, and a -20% penalty to XP)
lizard man
werewolf (special)

Characters start at first level.  Evil priests can choose from the following deities:

Lunis (goddess of the night and moon)
Moort (god of death)
Kalestra (goddess of cunning and conniving, sister of Lunis, above)
Baanid (god of battle and destruction)
Decere (god of winter, may be worshipped by any align)
Terrestro (god of the underworld, brother of Moort, above)
Ba-eth (greater demon)

Clerics can also elect not to worship a particular god, instead being mystics of a given sphere or domain.  Sample domains include darkness, death, battle, the underworld, wealth, etc., and can be worked out with me.

[shadowheart]

OK, sounds interesting.  I have an idea, but I must ask, if you would allow the Complete Book of Necromancers?

:D:D

[OldSchoolGamer]

I'll evaluate supplements on a case-by-case basis.  Bottom line: if you create an interesting, reasonably balanced character, I have no problem bending the rules some to accommodate him/her.

[shadowheart]

Fair enough.  I just have an idea for a rather wicked character, and I just wanted to see if I had to use only core 2E stuff or if that supplement's open.  Not sure yet that I want her to be a necromancer in fact, 'cause that's so done!  Might consider another kind of M/U Specialist that isn't necessarily traditionally evil. :)

[OldSchoolGamer]

Yes, by all means I encourage a multidimensional approach to evil.  Evil doesn't have to mean sacrificing kittens and robbing old ladies.  Evil can be the guy who gets screwed over one time too many and crosses the line, or a guy with a deep misogynist streak who otherwise leads at least a mostly upright life.  Evil can be someone who has a goal that's actually not all that bad...but who will step on and violate anyone to accomplish it.  Evil can be based on ignorance, like a colonist who lands on a new continent and thinks the people there are inferior and put there by the gods to be raped and enslaved.

[GrinningHound]

I am interested.  I used to play 2nd edition....10 years ago or so, and I don't have the books, so, that might pose a *small* problem as I don't know the exact numbers for stuff.  If you would help me make my character I'm sure I could manage, though, with only minimal on the spot instruction.

My character idea isn't totally fleshed out, as I've only just read this ad, but suffice to say he'd be a sort of mercenary/wandering warrior who falls into greed and for wealth and glory a bit too deeply.

[OldSchoolGamer]

I am interested.  I used to play 2nd edition....10 years ago or so, and I don't have the books, so, that might pose a *small* problem as I don't know the exact numbers for stuff.  If you would help me make my character I'm sure I could manage, though, with only minimal on the spot instruction.

My character idea isn't totally fleshed out, as I've only just read this ad, but suffice to say he'd be a sort of mercenary/wandering warrior who falls into greed and for wealth and glory a bit too deeply.

That works...those who plunder for others often take a share for themselves, too...

[shadowheart]

Point-based purchase of attributes:  What is the cost for attributes between 11-14?  I assume 10 is 0 and you get points back for 9 or below?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Attributes below 15 are on a point-by-point basis.  75/6=12.5, which means that stats are two points above the statistical average (10.5) for a toss of 3d6.  I hate stat inflation...in my games, a 16 is uncommon, a 17 rare, and 18 truly exceptional...as it should be.

[Transgirlenstein]

..I love 2nd edition!  I would love to be in on this.  I'm thinking of maybe a savage druid or ranger?

[VandalSavage]

I have in mind an utterly anti-social - albeit very cunning and adaptable - brute in mind to play.  Human, but one whose background would make "raised by wolves" akin to growing up with the Brady Bunch.  He will not have a problem getting along with those he must, but this young savage is, essential, no more than an animal.

Others are to be exploited however possible, or eliminated as threats.  All creatures are below him, or soon will be.  And his appetites are considerable.

Some manner of Warrior would be most suitable.  Might we use Kits, if approved?

[RubySlippers]

What no elves, dwarves, halflings or gnomes that just went bad - elves make awesome evil people they live a long time and when they go dark can be just wrong. A halfling that is evil and greedy is not pretty.

I was thinking a Half-Elf (specifically half-drow) who is a mullticlass not sure with what yet there are so many options are you sticking to the books or may I get - creative - a bit. Within the classes normally allowed naturally. I will likely do the loyal henchwoman archetype likely LE or a pragmatic NE - as in why should she take risks when others are ambitious and will get the heat first and SHE can still gain her desires for power.  ;)

(I have to see if I still have my books, I should have my PH and Priests Handbook at least.)

[shadowheart]

Cool, looks like we got a group, after a fashion at least. :D

OK, will work up my evil magic user soon as I can and PM her to you.

[Transgirlenstein]

wow we dont have a gnome..I love gnomes.  I mgiht change my character to a gnome cleric.  Not sure to which God though.

[RubySlippers]

They have a racial evil diety some big mole thing.

I can't play I don't have a 2nd Edition Players Handbook to make a character up with.

[sleepingferret]

I can't play I don't have a 2nd Edition Players Handbook to make a character up with.

She could play... I sent her a copy of the PHB.

As for myself.... what about using the Complete Ninja's Handbook?  Or what about a drow fighter/thief?

[RubySlippers]

This is important since if I take a bard its a big benefit of the class - are you using proficiencies or not? (Frankly I love them but that is up to the DM but it would be nice.)

[shadowheart]

Still working on my evil little bi .. er .. witch :)

[GrinningHound]

Okay, still thinking about just how I want my character.  I don't want him to start out evil, just a little ambiguous, and ambitious.

I want him to be the type of epic warrior that would be in legends, akin to Hercules, Samson, Conan, (Kratos :P), meaning larger than life, and capable of legendary feats (strangling Hill Giants, pushing aside boulders, etc.)

So, basically I'm looking at an 18 STR.  :P  The character will descend into darkness and such as the game progresses.  Fighters in 2E got followers and castles, right?

I might multiclass him into a dark paladin as we go, depending on the events in the story.

[RubySlippers]

And my bard will emulate his tale of greatness and gladly serve at his side and to the rear a bit, as long as she can share in his glory.

Are you going to be LE?

[GrinningHound]

Not sure.  Depending on how the story goes and how the character evolves he could turn out to be lawful, neutral, or chaotic.  I'm not sure yet.

He'll probably hate magic users.  :P

[RubySlippers]

I could do a Fighter/Bard and when he looks at her just turn to show her Fighter half to him perhaps.

;D

[The Great Triangle]

Hmm... I'm thinking human CE wine drinking urban priest of Lunis.  A sophisticated wolf in sheep's clothing who runs an orphanage for the children of whores.  The orphanage is actually a front to indoctrinate the bastard children into the worship of Lunis, and infect the most worthy of them with lycanthropy shortly before puberty.

As the story begins, his orphanage has fallen short of money, and he's gone adventuring to pay off the debts accrued.  He really genuinely likes children, but he doesn't at all regret what eventually happens to them.

[Transgirlenstein]

I have not settled on a concept just yet but could you send me the phb?  I dont have my copy with me.

[sleepingferret]

Sending PHB to trippingsatyr 10/23/08 16:09 CDT.

[RubySlippers]

Half-elf Bard, female, kind of well-rounded.

[GrinningHound]

Hit me with that PHB yo!

Thank you!   ;D

I'm settled on my legendary strength mercenary adventurer.

[sleepingferret]

As long as it doesn't get circulated out of hand, anyone who has been sent the info pass it on to those in need here on E.

[The Great Triangle]

So, I finished designing my priest's abilities.  I'd like to see if they can be approved:

Priest of Lunis:

Requirements: Dex 13, Cha 13, Wis 9

Weapons and Armor: Priests of Lunis may wield Sickles, Daggers, Clubs, Spears, Quarter Staves, Javelins, and Scythes.  Priests of Lunis are not permitted to wear armor.

Spheres:

Major: Animal, Charm, Elemental (water), Weather.

Minor: Combat, Divination

Special: Each time a priest of Lunis gains access to a new level of spells, he may learn to prepare a wizard spell from the illusion school.  Upon attaining the 4th level of spells, adds Polymorph Self into lycanthrope forms only to his spell list.  At the 5th spell level, adds Polymorph other to his spell list.


Divine Powers:

May cast an additional spell per day of each level the priest has access to.

May hide in shadows as a thief at base skill of 25%, receiving an 5% bonus to this skill for each level after the first.


Restrictions:

Suffers double damage from silver weapons and cannot touch silver.

During the period of the New Moon, must stay silent and abstinent.

During the period of the Full Moon, must make several sacrifices of blood or ritual sex to Lunis each night.

[The Great Triangle]

Assuming my mythos gets approved, here's the character I want to roll up:



Madragail Lois

CE Cleric of Lunis

Str: 8 (8) (weight allowance 35, open doors 5, bend bars 1%)
Dex: 13 (13) (No Modifiers)
Con: 8 (8) (System Shock 60%, Resurrection Survival 65%)
Int: 7  (7) (Low Intelligence, Knows Common only)
Wis 16 (18) (+2 magical save adjustment, 2 bonus 1st level spells, 2 bonus 2nd level spells)
Cha 18 (22) (Max 15 henchmen, +15 base loyalty, +7 reaction adjustment)

HP: 8   AC: 10   Thac0: 20

Saves:

Paralyzation, Poison, or Death Magic: 10
Rod Staff or Wand: 14
Petrification or Polymorph: 13
Breath Weapon: 16
Spell: 15


Weapon Proficiencies: Sickle, Sling

Nonweapon Proficiencies: Astrology, Etiquette, Local History

Thief Skills: Hide in Shadows: 30%

Spell Slots:  1/4

Spells Known: Animal Friendship, Bless, Change Self, Combine, Command, Create Water,
Detect Good, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Detect Snares and Pits, Faerie Fire,
Invisibility to Animals, Locate Animals or Plants, Magic Stone, Purify Food and Drink,
Remove Fear, Shillelagh.

(Favorite Set: Bless, Remove Fear, Magic Stone, Change Self)



Familiar: Bonso the Wonder Mutt

4 HP, AC 6, THAC0 18, overbears man-sized opponent on natural 19 or higher, 1 ATT (bite), d6 damage

Overbearing can only occur during the initial attack (charge).  If an opponent is overborne, the opponent is prone and loses any DEX bonus to AC.  The wolf gains a second attack at +3 to hit.  If successful, the attack (rending) does half the damage a normal attack would do, fractions rounded up.

[Muse]

Oh, my, lord!  Am i too late?  May i please play?  May i?  May i?  *bounce!* 

[GrinningHound]

Ty hasn't been on in a while, and I can't find an Absence notice in his recent posts.  I wonder if everything's all right?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Hey everyone, I hit a rough patch and had an overly geeky moment, but I'm here, and the game's still on.  Muse, you can play too.

[The Great Triangle]

Hooray!  What's the verdict on my cleric?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Hooray!  What's the verdict on my cleric?

Definitely a bout of inspired wickedness there.  I heartily approve. 

The orphanage in question is on the fringes of a frontier town, near some fens.  The town generally supports the orphanage and thinks it's a benefit.  There are whispers and rumors of the true goings-on, of course, but nothing that anyone can put a finger on.  It's a classic case of people not wanting to dig too deep...the fens have a bad reputation, and who knows just what lurks in the fogs and mists that form each night and roll into that part of town...

[OldSchoolGamer]

I have in mind an utterly anti-social - albeit very cunning and adaptable - brute in mind to play.  Human, but one whose background would make "raised by wolves" akin to growing up with the Brady Bunch.  He will not have a problem getting along with those he must, but this young savage is, essential, no more than an animal.

Others are to be exploited however possible, or eliminated as threats.  All creatures are below him, or soon will be.  And his appetites are considerable.

Some manner of Warrior would be most suitable.  Might we use Kits, if approved?

Sounds good.  I'll evaluate kits on a case-by-case basis.  Feel free to invent your own.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Okay, still thinking about just how I want my character.  I don't want him to start out evil, just a little ambiguous, and ambitious.

I want him to be the type of epic warrior that would be in legends, akin to Hercules, Samson, Conan, (Kratos :P), meaning larger than life, and capable of legendary feats (strangling Hill Giants, pushing aside boulders, etc.)

So, basically I'm looking at an 18 STR.  :P  The character will descend into darkness and such as the game progresses.  Fighters in 2E got followers and castles, right?

I might multiclass him into a dark paladin as we go, depending on the events in the story.

He'll probably start out more humble than that, but as time goes on, he can accrete a reputation.  And, the bigger he gets, the more influence he'll acquire.  A stronghold is down the road a ways, but certainly within the realm of possibility.

[GrinningHound]

Glad you're back!  I'm looking forward to some action on a biblical scale, and a whole lot of moral ambiguity as his ways descend into tyranny.  Though, I realize that at level 1, he probably won't be very manly.

Conan started out as just a humble thief, after all!  My character will be cunning and efficient, not just a dumb bruiser.  At low level he'll pick his fights with tact.

Hmmm....maybe a Fighter/Thief?  I'll have to look up how multi classing works and see if it's worth it.

Since I don't own any 2E books, I don't know any kits or other options I have besides the basic fighter character, which is in fact pretty bland.  How would I go about creating a kit?  Would you help me work on that?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Glad you're back!  I'm looking forward to some action on a biblical scale, and a whole lot of moral ambiguity as his ways descend into tyranny.  Though, I realize that at level 1, he probably won't be very manly.

Conan started out as just a humble thief, after all!  My character will be cunning and efficient, not just a dumb bruiser.  At low level he'll pick his fights with tact.

Hmmm....maybe a Fighter/Thief?  I'll have to look up how multi classing works and see if it's worth it.

Since I don't own any 2E books, I don't know any kits or other options I have besides the basic fighter character, which is in fact pretty bland.  How would I go about creating a kit?  Would you help me work on that?

We could do some tradeoffs.  Your character could use the THAC0 table for warriors (a big advantage over rogues, especially at higher levels).  However, he would have to give up two thieving abilities, and accept a multiplier of 0.5 in terms of percentage skills to allocate to the others.  He would only have the number of weapon proficiency slots a rogue has, but I would allow him to gain proficiency in any weapon usable by a warrior.  However, to employ a backstab, he could only use a weapon open to rogues.

[GrinningHound]

You can't backstab someone with an axe or a greatsword?  :(

It sure is easy to hit someone in the cranium when they don't know you're there, regardless of weapon size.  :D

[The Great Triangle]

Backstabbing requires precision and a careful grip on the weapon.  Something that cannot be done with a large weapon.  Most backstabs target the heart or the kidneys.  (although occasionally the lungs, whatever's handy)


For a human, you can start out in one class and then after advancing to the level you want in that class, you pick up the new second class, forever closing off your first class.  

I reccomend that you start as a Fighting-Man, because you'll be able to gain percentile strength scores, which give you a signifigant advantage in might.  (The lower levels of thievery don't require very much experience to advance through though, so it may be worthwhile to explore them.)  Most thiefly skills cannot be used or suffer penalties n heavy armor, however.

[OldSchoolGamer]

You can't backstab someone with an axe or a greatsword?  :(

It sure is easy to hit someone in the cranium when they don't know you're there, regardless of weapon size.  :D

It's an issue of balance.  When you're talking about employing a multiplier of up to 4 with a weapon able to do up to 12 points of damage (and that's before any other bonuses are factored in!), it distorts the game.  Plus, the whole idea behind a backstab isn't merely attacking from behind, but also using a weapon maneuverable enough to carefully stick into the victim's vitals.  It's about finesse, not brute force, and that's hard to achieve with a greataxe.

[GrinningHound]

It just seems to me that you can quite easily nail a guy in the vitals when he isn't fully able to defend himself.  If you're a man capable of throwing bales of hay and bench pressing cattle, you can probably wield a heavy weapon with a good degree of finesse.  There should be 'some' damage bonus for hitting a guy square in the back of the head, or in the neck with an axe, or hewing halfway through his stomach while his back is turned.

Nevertheless, I won't argue with your ruling.  :)

As for thief skills, it has always annoyed me how ONLY thieves have a good chance of climbing a wall, for example.  If the wall has a fair amount of handholds, any athletic guy should have a fair chance of navigating it.


How would I go about investing in thief skills if I were to start out as a Fighter?  Is it possible to start as a Fighter/Thief and eventually drop the Thief?

[OldSchoolGamer]

It just seems to me that you can quite easily nail a guy in the vitals when he isn't fully able to defend himself.  If you're a man capable of throwing bales of hay and bench pressing cattle, you can probably wield a heavy weapon with a good degree of finesse.  There should be 'some' damage bonus for hitting a guy square in the back of the head, or in the neck with an axe, or hewing halfway through his stomach while his back is turned.

Indeed there is...you get +4 to hit, and in my games attacking from behind against an opponent unaware of your presence enables you to toss two damage dice and pick the highest one.

Nevertheless, I won't argue with your ruling.  :)

As for thief skills, it has always annoyed me how ONLY thieves have a good chance of climbing a wall, for example.  If the wall has a fair amount of handholds, any athletic guy should have a fair chance of navigating it.

You can choose Climbing as a nonweapon proficiency.  It's not quite as good as the thief skill, but still serviceable.  And just because a guy is strong doesn't necessarily mean he has the knack for climbing.  Climbing is a different skill-set from bench-pressing cattle.

How would I go about investing in thief skills if I were to start out as a Fighter?  Is it possible to start as a Fighter/Thief and eventually drop the Thief?

You can change classes anytime.  If you went to, say, third level as fighter and decided to change to thief, you'd retain the fighter hit points and saves, but you'd have to stick with thieves' weapons and other abilities until you reached 4th level in thief. 

Or you can multiclass, which means you divide xp among the two classes and advance half as fast.

[GrinningHound]

You can change classes anytime.  If you went to, say, third level as fighter and decided to change to thief, you'd retain the fighter hit points and saves, but you'd have to stick with thieves' weapons and other abilities until you reached 4th level in thief.

If I were to take 1 level in fighter, then x levels in thief (until I were satisfied with the skills), would I then be able to go back to fighter?


Don't thieves get 2 XP per gold piece found?  That might just make it worth it to multiclass.  :D

[GrinningHound]

Hmmm...I just went over the multi classing and dual classing rules in the PHB.  I am not enthused.  :(

If I were to take a couple levels in thief, i wouldn't be able to continue as a fighter.  Also, you need a 17 in the primary stat of the class you wanna switch to...not likely, that's a huge number, considering STR is going to be 18.

And with multiclassing, I'm not allowed to specialize in weapons.  :(

Maybe I'll just pick up the various Thief skills as nonweapon proficiencies.  They aren't specifically listed as a proficiency, but would I be able to pick up Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, and Detect Noise as a nonweapon proficiency?  I realize the percentage wouldn't be great, especially with armor, but it would be better than nothing, right?

Besides, what warrior who has survived a couple of battles hasn't learned how to be just a little sneaky and tactical?

[OldSchoolGamer]

If I were to take a couple levels in thief, i wouldn't be able to continue as a fighter.  Also, you need a 17 in the primary stat of the class you wanna switch to...not likely, that's a huge number, considering STR is going to be 18.

And with multiclassing, I'm not allowed to specialize in weapons.  :(

I waive the non-specialization rule for multiclassed characters.

[GrinningHound]

Haha, great.  Fighter/Rogue it just might be.  Hmmm....

He won't be as butch as a straight up fighter as quickly, but he will have more potential, and options...

Do Theives get the 2XP per GP thing?  I recall that from when I used to play 2nd edition for some reason.  I was young though.  :P

[GrinningHound]

Eww, Exceptional Strength roll sucked.  :(  https://elliquiy.com/forums/dicebot.php?r=6486
.  It's a 30.

Is it possible to raise stats without the aid of magic over time?  In third edition you can give a +1 to a stat every 4 levels.  No matter, 18/30 and 18/100 both become the same 19 with just a +1 magic bonus.  :D

This is gonna be a really, really rough draft.

Gorin Murricane.  N Fighter/Thief.

Str 18/30 (22) +1 hit, +3 dmg, 135 weight, 280 max press, 12 open doors, 20% BBLG
Dex 9 (9)  Average, enough to be a Thief.
Con 16 (18)  Manly man.  +2 HP, 95% SShock, 96% ResRevive
Int 9 (9)  Average.  2 Languages.
Wis 8 (8 ) Average, just enough to not get penalized.
Cha 9 (9) Average, no penalties.

Aww...I really wanted some better mental stats, but that hit point bonus is just too juicy to give up.  I may change it.

Umm...I'll work out the rest when I have a nice background for you.

[The Great Triangle]

2nd edition doesn't provide +1 magic bonuses.  Instead, strength boosts set a character's strength to a certain level.  I believe strength 19 is gauntlets of Ogre Strength.

[GrinningHound]

Hmm...professional opinion, Triangle.  Should I drop Con down to no HP bonus and put some points in mental stats?  Though, I would need quite a few points to get any kind of a bonus in them...

[The Great Triangle]

Fighters shouldn't really bother with mental stats.  You can comfortably dump charisma to 8 or so, and intellegence you can drop down to 7 or even 6 without becoming a monosylabic moron.  Wisdom is the only score I might consider putting extra points in, and that's only so you can get the saving throw bonus to compensate for your poor fighter saves.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Fighters shouldn't really bother with mental stats.  You can comfortably dump charisma to 8 or so, and intellegence you can drop down to 7 or even 6 without becoming a monosylabic moron.  Wisdom is the only score I might consider putting extra points in, and that's only so you can get the saving throw bonus to compensate for your poor fighter saves.

I would urge some caution with using INT or CHA as a dump stat, especially if you envision your character becoming a leader.  My games tend to be well-rounded.  All the stats count, if some more than others...   ;)

[The Great Triangle]

My character isn't as smart as some, but he makes up for it through sheer force of personality, and the fact that he has a very clear head.  He may not be able to come up with a very sophisticated plot of doom, but he'll at least get enough people on his side that everyone will assume he's operating plans within plans.

[GrinningHound]

I want my character to be relatively cunning and perceptive, and I also want him to be likeable and forceful enough to become a leader.

For another 4 or so points in any of the mental stats, there is no actual TECHNICAL benefit that I can see...though I guess it would be helpful with some nonweapon prof rolls, right?  Besides, I find it sort of cheating to play a character as crafty if his intelligence is only a 6.

Hmmm....what's the point of putting 18 points into STR, if STR boosting items give a score, instead of a bonus?  Gauntlets of Giant Strength or whatever bring it to 19, whether the base stat is a 15 or an 18, right?  Seems like the premium on points for a stat above 14 could be better spent elsewhere, if that's the case.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Putting points in other stats is beneficial for nonweapon prof checks, as well as score checks.  For instance, your character may be confronted with a mathematical puzzle, and would need to make an INT check (roll below INT on a d20) to succeed.

Oh, another question I neglected to answer: do rogues get double xp for finding treasure?  The answer is no...with a qualifier.  In my games, there is no straight xp-per-gp award.  If your thief picks a pocket and winds up with a 100gp gem, yes, he or she probably will get some xp for successful use of an ability as well as profit.  A warrior could just kick the ass of the person with the pocket and take the gem away from him...in which case he would get xp for kicking an ass plus profiting from the gem.  A wizard might charm the victim and convince him that giving the gem to him would be a very smart thing to do...in which case the mage would get xp from casting a spell successfully as well as profiting.  And so on.

[The Great Triangle]

It'll take you a long time to get those items, and they'll always be vulnurable to dispel magic and various traps.  There's also antimagic fields, and the fact that there's something to be said for "The epic warrior valiantly wrestled the dragon to the ground."  vs. "The Gauntlets of Ogre strength overcame the dragon.  Some guy happened to be attatched to them at the time too."

[OldSchoolGamer]

Magic items of that nature are uncommon in my worlds.  Generally an item gives a straight point bonus.  Some spells do likewise, and some specialty priests have the ability to raise a score temporarily.  Potions are more typically the way things are done, though in all but a handful of cases the effect is temporary.

[GrinningHound]

Ahhh, very nice.  So a guy with an 18 STR and a STR booster is better than a chump with 12 STR and the same booster.  Yaaaay it's nice to be special.  :D

Now, to work on tweaking those other numbers around.  I don't want to play an oaf.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Also bear in mind that, with my point system, high scores are actually unusual.  Scores had a way of getting rather inflated...you had to have a 16 or 17 to be taken seriously.  In my world, 14 is above-average.  15 is notable.  16 is talked about.  17 is exceptional, usually occuring in maybe 1-2% of the population.  18 is truly rare.

[GrinningHound]

So an 18 STR is pretty biblical stuff, huh?  I probably won't be going up against bandits and knights with equal might.  :D

[OldSchoolGamer]

Well, not exactly Biblical, but at least bordering on epic. 

[OldSchoolGamer]

Oh, my, lord!  Am i too late?  May i please play?  May i?  May i?  *bounce!* 

By the way, you're welcome to join up.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Okay ladies and germs, let's go ahead and flesh out those characters.  You get max for starting gp.  Plus go into the background of your character, at least some of it.  I'll be assigning quirks based on the backgrounds and your stated goals.

[The Great Triangle]

Madragail was born in an alley to a whore who died in childbirth.  His father, a wealthy noble, took him in, and tried to give him the best of everything, but when he got a male heir four years later, he "discovered" Madragail's heritage, and cast him out.  The young boy was adopted by a group of Balseraphs, nomadic carnival folk.  The tribe of Balseraphs that took him into their traveling carnival, however, happened to be worshipers of Lunis.  As he grew up, he was instructed in the arts of fortune telling and hucksterism, and showed a particular affinity for socialization and memorizing local legends.  At age 16, the cult of Lunis decided to choose him to be trained in the worship and theology of the goddess, finding him quite worthy, but far too sickly and weak to become a true lycanthrope. 

For four grueling years, Madragail trained under the vicious Tsen Mara, an infamous bandit queen and worshiper of Lunis.  (F Half Orc Thief/Priest of Lunis 3)  While under Mara's training, Madragail had no rights, and was sometimes forced to engaged in painful ritual sex acts, as well as receiving several piercings in places he'd rather not mention.  After completing his training, he returned to the town of his birth, and began to serve in the orphanage of Lunis under Valgar Yang, mastermind of the indoctrination scheme.  (M. Human Priest of Lunis 3)

In the short term, Madragail wishes to ruin the life of his half brother, Adam Lois, as revenge for taking away his life of comfort.  After that, he wants to ruin his father, Baron Nathaniel Lois, and possibly reclaim his noble title.  Once he's become a noble or disposed of his past, he intends to spread crime and chaos throughout the land, to erode the foundations of civilization and create a better environment for the worship of the goddess to thrive. 

Madragail is not a strong man, and he is not a brave man.  What he does have, however, is a gift for making people cooperate with him.  The bastard priest would be far happier at the back rank of an army of thugs, letting them dispose of what ails him, rather then off smiting his enemies on the front lines.

[The Great Triangle]

Some ideas about the Balseraphs, if the GM is interested:

The Balseraphs are a chaotic, nomadic civilization with a tendency towards evil.  Their civilization is divided into six castes, or tribes,

Kinkers: The Kinkers are a group of chaotic good acrobats with a flair for dance and ropework.  They construct beautiful and elaborate tents supported by massive amounts of rope and only a few support beams, and engage in impressive midair ballets that delight audiences.  Of course, those who stay after the show might very well be invited to learn some other interesting uses for knots...  Most Kinkers are either elves or half elves, although they have many races in their ranks.

Lunarians: The Lunarians are a chaotic evil embodiment of barely controlled libido.  Dangerously sexually open even by Balseraph standards, Lunarians routinely engage in and even celebrate incest and various forms of experimental bestiality, in honor of their goddess Lunis.  In spite of their horrid deviancy, people still come to their freak shows and consult their oracles, drawn by a morbid curiosity.  Nearly any conceivable race or combination of races can be found represented in the Lunarians, though more than half of them are still human.  At least on the outside.

Maniacs: To the maniacs, humour is the greatest thing in the world, greater than anything else.  At their core, the chaotic neutral maniacs believe that the gods of goodness have forsaken man, and given him the ability to laugh as his only tool to repel the darkness within and without.  Maniacs often wear strange face paint, brightly colored wigs, and large, silly hats.  Though local religious leaders do not welcome their philosophical views (which creep into their humour) their cultural practices greatly amuse people, who keep welcoming them.  Most maniacs are human, but there are a significant number of orcs and half orcs among them.

Meloncholio: The Maniacs claim that the Meloncholio arose from discontented maniacs, who found humor an inefficient way to distract themselves from the horror of existence.  Naturally, the Meloncholio claim just the opposite.  The Meloncholio are a quiet, somber people who lead lives of quiet religious contemplation, maintaining a vow of silence their entire lives.  The Meloncholio wear white face paint, occasionally with stylization to indicate their mood.  Like all Balseraphs, the Meloncholio hold carnivals, but their carnivals are quiet, somber affairs that local leaders often force their charges to visit, for their moral improvement.  The lawful neutral Meloncholio are almost all human.

Midwayers: The Midwayers are the pentultimate gamblers and game players of the world.  The Chaotic Evil Midwayers view everything in life as a game, in emulation of their goddess Kalestra.  Midwayers are often dressed in vainglorious finery, often getting buttons and clasps made of gold and silver.  Midwayer caravans are basically traveling casinos, and more than a few Midwayers have taken to traveling by boat, becoming a floating manifestation of vice.  People are drawn into Midwayer carnivals by greed and glamour, and quite often end up losing much more than just their money.  Most Midwayers are human, but there are a number of Gnomes and Trolls among them as well.

Punkushers: The Chaotic Neutral Punkushers are the driving force between Balseraph civilization, the reason why anyone even recognizes the term "Balseraph" anymore.  The Punkushers are the ring leaders of the Balseraph circus, and have notable skill in getting the disparate tribes to work together.  In their own caravans, Punkushers often capitalize on local holidays and festivals, rapidly constructing exhibits and shows to entertain revelers.  Even if the holidays they hijack aren't meant to be celebrated in such a fashion, the Punkushers find some way to distort the celebrations.  Punkushers have a highly unpredictable appearance, and an affinity for calendars.  The Punkusher tribe is a mix of dwarves and humans, with a small number of goblins mixed in as well.


The six tribes of the Balseraphs meet once a year for the Balseraph circus, in which they combine their talents to put on a truly astounding spectacle.  (which it is often difficult to escape without being tainted by chaos.)  The city hosting the circus is chosen seemingly randomly each year, and is just as likely to be devastated by the event as it is to thrive from it.  In the short term, at least, the damage will be catastrophic.  Several kings have tried to destroy the Belseraphs by sacking their circus, but such attempts are often dangerously foolish, as even the Meloncholio can fight quite admirably if forced to.  (One king even left his castle to greet his victorious army, only to realize he had been tricked by the Punkushers.)

[Servant Girl]

Hi- are there any slots left?  I'd love to play a thief!

[The Great Triangle]

I think there's enough slots in general, although that's up to the GM.  :)

We could always use a rogue to get those ever elusive world ending artifacts.  XD

[RubySlippers]

Some ideas about the Balseraphs, if the GM is interested:

The Balseraphs are a chaotic, nomadic civilization with a tendency towards evil.  Their civilization is divided into six castes, or tribes,

Kinkers: The Kinkers are a group of chaotic good acrobats with a flair for dance and ropework.  They construct beautiful and elaborate tents supported by massive amounts of rope and only a few support beams, and engage in impressive midair ballets that delight audiences.  Of course, those who stay after the show might very well be invited to learn some other interesting uses for knots...  Most Kinkers are either elves or half elves, although they have many races in their ranks.

Lunarians: The Lunarians are a chaotic evil embodiment of barely controlled libido.  Dangerously sexually open even by Balseraph standards, Lunarians routinely engage in and even celebrate incest and various forms of experimental bestiality, in honor of their goddess Lunis.  In spite of their horrid deviancy, people still come to their freak shows and consult their oracles, drawn by a morbid curiosity.  Nearly any conceivable race or combination of races can be found represented in the Lunarians, though more than half of them are still human.  At least on the outside.

Maniacs: To the maniacs, humour is the greatest thing in the world, greater than anything else.  At their core, the chaotic neutral maniacs believe that the gods of goodness have forsaken man, and given him the ability to laugh as his only tool to repel the darkness within and without.  Maniacs often wear strange face paint, brightly colored wigs, and large, silly hats.  Though local religious leaders do not welcome their philosophical views (which creep into their humour) their cultural practices greatly amuse people, who keep welcoming them.  Most maniacs are human, but there are a significant number of orcs and half orcs among them.

Meloncholio: The Maniacs claim that the Meloncholio arose from discontented maniacs, who found humor an inefficient way to distract themselves from the horror of existence.  Naturally, the Meloncholio claim just the opposite.  The Meloncholio are a quiet, somber people who lead lives of quiet religious contemplation, maintaining a vow of silence their entire lives.  The Meloncholio wear white face paint, occasionally with stylization to indicate their mood.  Like all Balseraphs, the Meloncholio hold carnivals, but their carnivals are quiet, somber affairs that local leaders often force their charges to visit, for their moral improvement.  The lawful neutral Meloncholio are almost all human.

Midwayers: The Midwayers are the pentultimate gamblers and game players of the world.  The Chaotic Evil Midwayers view everything in life as a game, in emulation of their goddess Kalestra.  Midwayers are often dressed in vainglorious finery, often getting buttons and clasps made of gold and silver.  Midwayer caravans are basically traveling casinos, and more than a few Midwayers have taken to traveling by boat, becoming a floating manifestation of vice.  People are drawn into Midwayer carnivals by greed and glamour, and quite often end up losing much more than just their money.  Most Midwayers are human, but there are a number of Gnomes and Trolls among them as well.

Punkushers: The Chaotic Neutral Punkushers are the driving force between Balseraph civilization, the reason why anyone even recognizes the term "Balseraph" anymore.  The Punkushers are the ring leaders of the Balseraph circus, and have notable skill in getting the disparate tribes to work together.  In their own caravans, Punkushers often capitalize on local holidays and festivals, rapidly constructing exhibits and shows to entertain revelers.  Even if the holidays they hijack aren't meant to be celebrated in such a fashion, the Punkushers find some way to distort the celebrations.  Punkushers have a highly unpredictable appearance, and an affinity for calendars.  The Punkusher tribe is a mix of dwarves and humans, with a small number of goblins mixed in as well.


The six tribes of the Balseraphs meet once a year for the Balseraph circus, in which they combine their talents to put on a truly astounding spectacle.  (which it is often difficult to escape without being tainted by chaos.)  The city hosting the circus is chosen seemingly randomly each year, and is just as likely to be devastated by the event as it is to thrive from it.  In the short term, at least, the damage will be catastrophic.  Several kings have tried to destroy the Belseraphs by sacking their circus, but such attempts are often dangerously foolish, as even the Meloncholio can fight quite admirably if forced to.  (One king even left his castle to greet his victorious army, only to realize he had been tricked by the Punkushers.)

Oooooooooo nice, can I join up? 

I think we can add another though -

Sorellos: The Neutral Evil Sorellos are the more tempered band of the Balseraphs devoted to prostitution, crime and villiany and the worst excesses of the bands mostly to make money and use that money to gain power. Not well thought of they buy access to power and sport alliances to guilds across the known world. You can meet all kinds in the organization from orcs to refined elves depending on their specialty. Their circuses are often rather fun with whores and acts of sexual excesses, orgies and the others not inolved rob the location blind even going to nearby communities and even robbing their own after all if they were smart they would be more careful. But they will not kill another in their tribe accept in self-defense. Its their only one point of honor but that doesn't mean they won't use non-lethal options.

[The Great Triangle]

That seems to fit in well enough, although they might not get formally invited to the circus by the Punkushers, given their neutral alignment.  (Sure, the Meloncholio might actually be lawful, but they make the maniacs so much more amusing, and make the local authority figures feel conflicted about the circus.)

The Sorellos may have once had a more formal role in the Balseraphs, but the alliances they formed with guilds caused them to be considered "sell outs," leading to them being pushed to the edge of the circus.  Of course, abandoning Balseraph traditions, they're actually thriving.even if they are gradually transforming from a nomadic carnival into an international thieves guild.

[RubySlippers]

We can make them many alignments actually the CN and CE ones might be the fun factions of the group and the NE and LE ones the businessmen and connivers, with their hands in and out of different pots. This would keep the family factions guessing as to what they are up to and most would appear just another line of the business running whoring and sex romps, some thieving but overall not offensive. But some might be just wrong minded but no one can be sure and have more power outside the groups and feeding that to their faction a bit. That should make them extra fun to play.

[The Great Triangle]

That is possible, although it might function better on the tribal level than on the civilization level.  NE and LE members of the various tribes (other than the Kinkers) are quite possible, and probobly required for them to survive.  The listed alignment of the tribe simply describes the typical individual from that tribe, and most tribes contain signifigant numbers of people either one step away on the good/evil axis or on any part of the law/chaos axis.

(since you won't likely see many CG Lunarians, although CG maniacs are quite possible.)

[RubySlippers]

I never said good ones, they are slutty trash really with the more conniving members hiding in the ranks and moving on the outside but they could have a major role as messengers and news experts among the tribes - besies making ample money following armies around. ;)

[OldSchoolGamer]

Excellent points, and welcome aboard to Servant Girl and RubySlippers.

[Beautiful Lie]

I've never gotten to play any DnD period would that be an hinderance to my wanting to join such a thread? Basic character ideas are either 1) Troll Warrior type or 2) Some-race (Possibly elf) of rogue that has skills with traps etc. He presents himself as a noble and gentle fellow but beneath the veneer of kindness is a cold heartless person willing to do whatever it takes to get what he desires. I'll flesh out a character more if you tell me i'm alright to join or tell me if you need me to do other things first to have a go at this :D

Edit: I noticed a high influx of thieves to your campaign, seeing that I think i'd rather go with a calm calculating wizard.

[Servant Girl]

Not sure how much room there is for manouver but I'd like to play my character as subservient to the others.
Perhaps she's technically their slave- won in a bet.

They can treat her like a slave- she'll run errands, cook meals, clean armour, spy on others etc.
She can be made to carry the heavy stuff, look after prisoners or even bribe a guard with her body.
She'll have to be watched closely though because she resents her position and although she wont run away because she's terrified of what they'd do to her if they caught her, it might be a good idea to tie her up at night...  ;)

Her skills lie heavily in climbing, sneaking, hiding and not being noticed.  She carries a dagger- but is skilled with a dagger- both fighting and throwing.

I'd like her to be human, late teens.

[The Great Triangle]

Beautiful Lie:  A wizard can be a difficult character for a first time player to play, although second edition D&D isn't all that complicated.  Your character will get exponentially more complex as you level up though.  If you're willing to deal with that, then a wizard will work fairly well.

Servant Girl: A slave makes a pretty good character concept.  I doubt my character would own your character, as he's chaotic, and believes that owning a slave would demean him.  Hound's character might be a slave owner though.  On the other hand, your character might be a particulrly troublesome orphan who Madragail has taken on as an apprentice.  (Sure, he's barely completed his apprenticeship too, but he's got an ego and the ability to convince people to let him try.)  Theoretically, she would end up dual or multi classing to cleric after a while. 

[GrinningHound]

Sorry Ty, I was out of town for the weekend.  I will start working on my character.

I hope you don't mind if my background is a little simple and maybe not the best quality of writing.  To be honest, I really don't like writing backgrounds, and this being a first level character, he doesn't have TOO much of one.  I prefer to develop my characters personalities, and to an extent, bits of their past as I play them.  It makes them more lifelike and interesting, I think.

[Beautiful Lie]

I'm willing to deal with that, the thing I meana bout D&D is the closest i've come to playing it is Neverwinter Nights. So I -do- have concepts of the art, spell schools etc. Know what types of things I like etc. -but- I have no clue how to play it -in- the D&D setting. If thats not a huge issue then I think the party will find that i'm a rather interesting asset to have around.

Edit: So where do we post our char concept, can I get the D&D thingy from you and a char sheet or something so I can start setting the wizard up and questioning you about viable ideas etc? :)

[Beautiful Lie]

light bump, where you at Ty?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Oh, I'm here, waiting for characters to be posted.  If you need any help, let me know through PM or here.

[Beautiful Lie]

Yes sir I need help aka char sheet set up and stat point workage? You said something about a numbers system? I have a general rough idea of what I want my wiz to do but I need to know what spells I have acess to etc. (Generalist or maybe Illusionist wizzy.)

[OldSchoolGamer]

See the point-buy system further up the thread:

Name:
Gender:
Race:
Class:
Height:
Brief physical description:

STR:
INT:
WIS:
DEX:
CON:
CHA:
Align:

Background (doesn't have to be long...if you want to be a person of mystery, just state what you're doing in town):

Weapons:

Armor:

Gear:

[The Great Triangle]

Your general stats for a 1st level wizard are going to be:

Hp: 4 + constitution modification
AC: 10 - dexterity modification

Thac0: 20 (expect to lose fistfights against kittens)

Your likely alignments are:

Lawful Evil: (LE)  The conniving bastard who works within the system, and often has restrictions on his wickedness.  (not in front of the children, please, for example)

Neutral Evil: (NE)  A person who only cares for himself, and what gives him the biggest advantage.  In general, a selfish bloke.

Chaotic Evil: (CE) A partciularly sick individual who not only works for his greatest advantage, but seeks to tear down lawful authorites and structures, like religion and monarchy.  The sort of guy who wants to watch the world burn.


Your weapon choices are:

Dagger: d4 damage, speed 2, 1 handed.  (portable and useful for holding while holding on to spell components)

Staff: d6 damage, speed 4, 2 handed. (if you plan on bopping people on the head when out of sorcery)

Sling: d4 damage for stone, d4 + 1 damage for bullet.  Speed 6, 1 handed.  (A very practical weapon, but sort of dangerous)


Proficiencies and Nonweapon Proficiencies:  

A wizard gets 1 weapon proficiency and 4 nonweapon proficiencies.  A wizard takes a -5 penalty on attacks with weapons with which he is non proficient.  (in other words, don't try it bucko)

Nonweapon Proficiencies:

Agriculture, Animal Handling, Ancient History, Animal Training, Artistic Ability, Blacksmithing, Brewing, Carpentry, Cobbling, Cooking, Dancing, Direction Sense, Ettiquete, Fire Building, Fishing, Heraldry, Linguistics- ancient, Linguistics- modern, Leatherworking, Navigation, Pottery, Reading/Writing, Religion, Riding, Rope Use, Seamanship, Seamstressing, Singing Spellcraft, Stonemasonry, Swimming, Weather Sense, Weaving

Complex Nonweapon Proficiencies:  (these cost 2 slots)

Astrology, Engineering, Gem Cutting, Herbalism, Mining, Riding- Airborne



Spells:  Here's the most interesting spells from various schools: (I'm not sure how many spells you have in your spellbook at 1st level.  I would say that a number equal to your intellegence -12 would be fair, but I'm not the GM.)

Universal: Cantrip (perform stupid magic tricks for an hour)

Abjuration (lost with illusionist): Protection from Evil/Good/Law/Chaos (Provides immunity to mind control and awkward bonuses that amount to -2 AC and +2 saving throw against warded type for 2 rounds)

Alteration: Burning Hands (1d3+2 damage, casting time 3)  Color Spray (a stunning spell which may not allow a saving throw, and affects 1d6 creatures, casting time 1) Enlarge/Reduce (Increases or shrinks the size of a creature by 10% per level of experience) Feather Fall (iconic)

Conjuration/Summoning: Armor (grants base AC 6 until substantial damage taken), Find Familiar (Gain a magical companion  Grease (makes an area slippery, or lubricates magnificently)  Mount (Summons a mule or pony for 3 hours)

Divination: Detect Magic (does what it says on the tin) Detect Undead  Identify

Evocation (lost with illusionist): Magic Missile (1d4+1 auto damage, casting time 1) Shield (For 5 rounds, provedes AC 2 against hand missiles, AC 3 against arrows, and AC 4 against other attacks) Tenser's Floating Disc (creates a floating disc of force that holds 100 lbs. for 40 minutes)  Wall of Fog (Creates a 30 foot cloud bank)

Enchantment/Charm: Charm Person (make a person your friend/lover.  The classic spell for extorting sex)  Friends (Gain 2d4 charisma for 1d4+1 rounds.  Warning: this spell's influence is obvious)  Hypnotism (makes 1d6 creatures within a 30 foot cube highly suggestable for 2 rounds)  Sleep (incapacitates 2d4 HD of monsters with no saving throw for 5 rounds.  Does not work on monsters with 4+3 HD or more Casting Time 1)

Illusion: Audible Glamer (produces an illusory sound), Change Self (appear as someone else for 2d6+2 rounds)  Nystul's Magical Aura (Make a non magic item appear magical or a magical item appear non magical for 1 day) Phantasmal Force (creates the illusion of "any object, creature, or force" within a 500 square foot area of effect)  Spook  (Cause a victim to flee in terror until he makes a successful saving throw Casting Time 1)


Becoming an illusionist requres 16 dexterity, and enables you to cast an additional illusion spell per day.  As a normal first level wizard, you could cast one spell per day.  (selected during your morning preparations)

[OldSchoolGamer]

Some additional background:

The game starts in or near the town of Oldsted.  Oldsted has been around for awhile, and is a mining and farming community.  To the South are plains, and four day's ride is the city of Cedric's Circle, which is fairly prosperous, if unconcerned with the goings-on of the bumpkins of Oldstead.  To the East are hills and fens with a bad, if ancient reputation.  Stories whisper of orcs, trolls, and other fell beasts that were vanquished by human steel long ago, near when the town itself was founded.  The remains of a fortress wall can be found just to the East of town...boys often play there with wooden swords and home-made shortbows.  To the North are the pastures and beyond them, forest.  To the West a day's ride is the ocean.

Olsted is ruled by the Town Council, which as of late seems to be getting on in years and having a harder and harder time actually doing anything useful.  For instance, in the past couple years there have been reports from farmers of livestock missing, yet no one has bothered to organize any sort of militia.  Whispers circulate that the Council has outlived its usefulness...or, worse yet, has actually been subverted by whatever forces are responsible for the disappearances on the outskirts of town.

There are other tales, more ominous...though one must speak to the right people to hear of them...

[The Great Triangle]

What kind of resource outlay will one of our characters need to get a seat on the town council?  Will it come with signifigant responsibilities?

Also, is it acceptable for my character's estranged father to be a member of the town council and/or a local baron?  (GM preference, although I'm not certain this world has a noble class)

[OldSchoolGamer]

Most of the town council is, or at least represents, old money and well-established interests.  Getting onto it wouldn't be easy, and would probably take some levels, and time.  Estranged fathers on the council, however, is doable.

[Beautiful Lie]

Name: Nathair Andochas
Gender: Male
Race: Human
Class: Wizard
Height: 5'9"
Brief physical description: A tanned human with light blue eyes, a short ponytail of dark brown hair. No facial hair. Moderately 'handsome' he doesn't boast any mass of muscles but seems to have a bit of fluid grace to his movements.


Background: As far as whay he's in town, he's passing through on his journey to collect magic and study to learn more of wizardry. The bare basics which he learnt in his home town from an old witch who died before being able to teach him anything more about the craft than the basics. He was raised in a small country town, a bit wild in nature but overall not a 'horrible' person.

Weapons: Sling, Staff(Used as walking stick most of the time.)

Armor: None

Gear: Travelling Clothes(Soft Leathers), Waterskin, Rations, Grimoire, Flint & Steel.

Player's Note: The DM has his stats spells etc. I have chosen to keep said ingormation secret from others just because it (in my opinion) makes the game more fun to -not- know everything about my char before we start ^.~

[The Great Triangle]

Good thing Madragail is functionally illiterate.  XD

What god or goddess does your worship?  (or not worship)

Is your character interested in participating in some sort of get rich quick scheme?

Does your character have a mentor in town, or is he just on a pilgrimage?

What does your character think of orphans?

[Beautiful Lie]

Pffft you must've missed that I left all that out for a reason :P you'll just have to pry such information free -in game- >:3

[The Great Triangle]

Lie, that's a really bad approach, I gotta be honest with you.

A large portion of games are stillborn when they first start, so trying to be all mysterious is just a recipe to help the game fail.  Of course, player conflict is a possibility, but I hope you haven't designed your character around that, and plan to spring your secret reason for wanting to kill us all quite suddenly.

(I apologize if I seem rude, I've just seen this sort of thing happen quite a lot, both online and offline, so your secretiveness naturally raises red flags with me.)

[Beautiful Lie]

Im secret by nature because I play plenty of drow in online RP gaming :P No I have no 'desire' to spring any plot to kill you. I just have a desire to keep things that a character wouldn't openly blab about, secret. Thats all there is to that, so you won't get to find out who or what god I worship (if any) without seeking the info in game. As for orphans my character has no stance upon them. You'll also find that my character is travelling in search of knowledge as spoken in the background. As for get rich quick schemes, well you have to ask that in game too. What motivates my character is for me and the -DM- to know. He has all the extra information that i've kept from posting here so please don't think i'm trying things already. It's just my belief that a character is more interesting if you interact with them to find these things out rather than if you just know from the start.

I hope this answer satisfies you, if you have more questions, concerns please feel free to say so.

[OldSchoolGamer]

Actually, I'll be putting a damper as DM on anyone with ongoing, unwanted PvP ambitions.  While PvP may make an occcasional appearance, this game is mainly about PCs versus the game world rather than each other.

And speaking of game world, I'm aiming to get that cranked up soon, like in the next couple days.  I'll probably write scenes to insert the individual characters into...or, if you like, you can create your own situation.  Within reason, of course--no starting out with "I just killed Smaug in his sleep and I'm in his treasure room..."   :P

[Beautiful Lie]

Seeing as I dislike pvp unless conflicts are forced upon me I see no issues with this and whatever 'reasonable' scenario you wish to start me in is fine. I think I might be able to work up some extra info for you mr.DM that i'll send via pm when I get time.

[The Great Triangle]

I must admit that I really hate the process of gathering the PCs together and getting to know each other, since roleplaying small talk bores me.  I prefer to start with a group of people who already know each other launching on a quest, but I can play those scenes if necessary.

It's mostly just a matter of style.  :)


Also, Ty: What are the good gods in your setting like?  If you haven't defined them, is it alright if the cult of Lunis has a very similar symbol to the cult of the Sun god, and the cult of Kalestra has a very similar symbol to the cult of the god of honesty and forthrightness? 

(I'm thinking that the cult of the sun god would have a golden disc as their symbol, and the cult of Lunis would have a stone disc which can be gilded with gold.)

[OldSchoolGamer]

Commonly worshipped deities:

Gaia: the Earth Goddess.  Spheres include life, plants, and water.  Worship of Gaia is common, especially among farmers, and she has a full temple in Oldsted.  Worship of Gaia is completely socially acceptable.

Lithos: God of Stone and Earth.  Spheres include earth and fire.  Worship of Lithos is fairly common, especially among smiths, and is socially acceptable.

Minerva: Goddess of Wisdom.  Spheres include magic and divination.  Worship of Minerva is common, particularly among women.  Minerva is a socially acceptable, if "early feminist" goddess.  She has a large shrine within the town library.

Celstra: Goddess of magic and the aether.  Spheres include magic, divination, and the stars.  Worship of Celstra does raise a few of the town's more stuffy eyebrows, but is tolerated.  She has a shrine on the west side of the town, which also houses a modest collection of tomes and artifacts presided over by the local magister.

Demetra: Goddess of Nature and Fertility.  Some believe she is the mother of Gaia, a very earthy goddess indeed.  Note that, like nature itself, Demetra is considered neutral, not good.  Worship of her, while not verboten, may get one talked about.  Some legends surrounding Demetra contend that she turned her back on the human race, siding with the beasts of the wilds.

Lunis: Goddess of the moon.  Lunis is a goddess of mystery and madness, and while worship of her is not forbidden, those who follow her do so at the risk of ostracism and suspicion. 

Solaris: God of the sun.  Solaris is considerably more respectable--at least to the townsfolk--than his love-interest Lunis, whom he chases across the aky and consorts with once a month.  Solaris has a shrine-cum-sundial in the middle of the town square, tended by an order of priests who perform weddings once per year at the Maypole.

Driandus: God of the woodlands and trees.  Driandus is worshipped by few within the city, but has a greater following amongst those who ply their trade in the forests near the city.  His temple consists of a Sacred Grove.

Tenshun: God of war and honor.  Worship of Tenshun was primarily an Imperial activity, and with the decline of the Empire has come a decline in the following of Tenshun.  Still, there is a temple in the old armory, which has a yard where the town militia muster.  Among those over 40 or so, worship of Tenshun may get you seen as an Imperial loyalist, but among the younger, there is less of a tie-in between Tenshun and the Empire.  Tenshun's priests hope that as the association between the unpopular Empire and Tenshun wanes, the faith may enjoy a renaissance, not least because the decline of the Empire has left the town in need of a military...

Trssk (pronounced "tris-ska"): Definitely not a deity you want it to be known you are affiliated with, Trssk is the orcish god of home and hearth.  He is not worshiped in the town, or among polite company of any kind.  However, amongst those in the hinterlands who have been raided and are now secretly dominated by orcs and their allies, some have taken to quietly worshiping this orc god to try and curry favor from the orcs.

Bellasho: Also not a deity for polite company, at least Bellasho is a human deity, to wit: the god of thieves and cutthroats.  Having rebelled against the other gods, he was banished from their conclaves and halls.  However, as thievery runs in the blood of humankind, Bellasho cannot be killed, and roams the earth in human(ish) form, maintaining his full divine powers.

(Feel free to add your own deities...and, of course, you will find others as the story progresses)

[Beautiful Lie]

Are there any gods presiding over magic?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Are there any gods presiding over magic?

I updated the list.   :)

[GrinningHound]

Hey, I know I'm pretty much the slowest person ever....

I WANT to finish up my character and get started....but I'm having trouble with the motivation to do ANYTHING.

Hopefully I'll get it done soon.

[Ouria]

IF I may rudely interject with my interest here.  May I play?  I saw the list of races earlier, and I saw questions about races not on the list (for example, elves, dwarves, etc.).  The point made was that these races are usually good, but have evil potential.  I have no lack of characters in my head that might work...but I would need the PHB in order to play.  I, of course, may be getting ahead of myself here, but...I could probably whip together a character by...Tuesday at the latest (if this were answered in 24 hours)?  Would that be in time for a late starter?  Or an on-time starter?  (if allowed in, of course).

I will apologize in advance for any noobishness on my part, as I am a bit new to this place, though do have experience in AD&D.

Thank you for your time.

[OldSchoolGamer]

You're quite welcome to join up, Ouria.  Evil characters other than humans are welcome...there are orcs, ogres, trolls, hill giants...and even dwarves, halflings and elves.  I'm kind of encouraging other races besides elves, simply because elves are sooooo overused.  Dark/Drow elves don't exist in this world.  And also don't neglect the possibility of playing a human of a different race than Caucasian.  You could play a dark-skinned foreigner too.

[Mnemaxa]

I hope there is still room left for after I'm approved, but that may be a few days yet.  I read the thread a few days ago, and a character idea jumped into my head and won't go away - thank you VERY much. :P

[OldSchoolGamer]

I'll get you into the game one way or another if you get approved.  There are plenty of maidens to plunder and goodness to corrupt in the merry town of Oldsted...

[Mnemaxa]

Strange questions - revised books for 2nd edition or standard second edition?....Unearthed Arcana yes or no?

[OldSchoolGamer]

I'm not going to get too anal as far as exact versions.  I view the system as existing to support the story, not the other way 'round.  Unearthed Arcana I'll take under advisement--some of it was rather innovative, but some of UE was pure munchkinism.

[Mnemaxa]

Perfectly acceptable.  I won't munchkin on you. ^_^ 

I've been approved, and the question about which books was mainly so I knew which ones to dig up out of boxes.

I'm goign to PM you with an idea I cooked up between a friend and I for the game.

[Mnemaxa]

How is this, TyTheDnDGuy?


Name:  Ruhk Makario
Gender: Female
Race: Human
Class:Illusionist 1st level
Height: 5'6”
Brief physical description:  Ruhk is slender and delicate young girl.  Her olive skin and collar length black hair hint at her exotic origins, while her green-amber eyes hint at something more 'dark' than simply 'exotic'.  She has several scars, shallow and fading, on her left forearm; there are a few on her right as well.  She favors her right hand but is ambidextrous.

STR: 8  (Weight allow 35, Max press 90, Open doors 5,  Bend bars/lift gates 1%)
DEX: 16  (Reaction Adjust +1, Missile Attacks +1, Defensive Adjustment +2)
CON: 8  (System shock 60%, Resurrection Survival 65%)
INT: 16  (5 Languages, 8th Level Spells, 55% Learn Spells, 85% Learn Illusion spells,  11 Max Known)
WIS: 9
CHA: 14 (6 Henchmen Max, +1 Loyalty Base, +2 Reaction Adjustment)
Align: Chaotic Evil

Background:  Twins born into a band of gypsy bandits, Ruhk and Corr were always on the move, and once they were old enough to not get in the way, they joined their siblings in daring raids.  While Corr was a deadly knife-fighter, Ruhk had inherited powers of darkness and light, and would confuse their enemies with shadowplay and illusions.  When their caravan was retaliated against, they escaped together, hiding and barely surviving in the nearby town by wits and cunning.  However, they were becoming notorious in their haunt, so they needed to leave for more fresh hunting grounds.

Weapons:  Two daggers (1d4 damage, speed 1 for dexterity bonus)

Armor: None
Ac: 8 (4 with spell of Armor [9points worth])
Saves:  Poison/Paralysis/Death 14; Rod/Staff/Wand 11; Petrify/Polymorph 13; Breath Weapon 15; Spell 12

Gear: A pouch of little bits, pieces, stones, glass marbles, rocks, string, colorful sand, and other strange things; dark clothing; a bedroll; a flask for water; some herbs for steeping into tea; and about 30' of stout twine.  She carries a small book with her spells within it hidden in her loose clothing.

Ruhk speaks Common, Orc, Lizardman, Elvish, Goblin, and could learn more if she desired.  She cannot cast spells of Necromancy, Evocation, or Abjuration.  Others suffer a -1 penalty to save against her illusions, while she saves against others illusions at +1 bonus.

Spells: 1st Level Castings: 2 (Memorized: Phantasmal Force, Cantrip)
Spellbook: Phantasmal Force, Audible Glamer, Armor, Cantrip, Unseen Servant

[Nadir]

Hey there! I have a character I'd like to join in with.

Name: Corr Makario
Gender: Female
Race: Human
Class: Thief 1st level
Height: 5'6"
Brief physical description: Corr is lithe and tautly muscled, olive skinned with collar-length black hair. She has a few shallow scars in various stages of fading, mostly on her right forearm. She is ambidextrous in most of her work, but has a stronger left hand. Her eyes are green-amber.

STR: 9 (Weight allow 35, Max press 90, Open doors 5, Bend Bars/Lift Gates 1%)
DEX: 16 (Reaction Adjust +1, Missile Attacks +1, Defensive Adjustment +2)
CON: 10 (System Shock 70%, Resurrection Survival 75%)
INT: 14 (4 Languages Known)
WIS: 8
CHA: 15 (7 Henchmen Max, +3 Loyalty Base, +3 Reaction Adjustment)
Align: Chaotic Evil

Background: Corr and her sister were born into a band of traveling gypsy bandits, always moving, haunting the caravan routes and attacking merchants. When the twins learned enough  not to hinder their older siblings, they were allowed to join the raids. A few months after they had begun, their camp was attacked. It was mere chance that Corr and Ruhk managed to escape. They made their way into the nearest town, living there off their skills and wits for a few years before deciding to find a new hunting ground.

Weapons: Two daggers (1d4 damage, speed 1 for dexterity bonus)

Armor: Leather + dexterity bonus
AC: 6
THACO: 20
Saves:  Poison/Paralysis/Death 13; Rod/Staff/Wand 14; Petrify/Polymorph 12; Breath Weapon 16; Spell 15

Gear: Dark clothes, bed roll, tinder box, wineskin, lock picks, a medium-sized cooking tin and a locked box.

Backstab: x2 damage
Pick Pocket 28%
Open locks: 23% (included dexterity bonus)
Find/Remove Traps: 15%
Move Silently: 14%
hide in shadows: 14%
Detect noise: 15%
Climb Walls: 60%
Read languages: 16%

Corr speaks Common, Thieves Cant, Lizardman, Orcish, and Elven and is smart enough to learn another language if she bothered.

[The Great Triangle]

Just out of curiosity, do the gypsies Ruhk and Corr traveled with have any links to the Balseraph gypsies I detailed on page 3?  (post 68)  If they do, it would provide a common link between Madragail and the pair, having all come from a somewhat common background.  :)

[Mnemaxa]

Actually, we were thinking they would be Lunarian, yes. 

That does mean they'll be....strange by any measure of the word. ^,,,,,,^

[The Great Triangle]

Excellent.  That practically makes us cousins! 

My character could provide his fellow Lunarians with a room at the orphanage.  (probably not two rooms, but that shouldn't be too much of a trouble for worshipers of Lunis)  Not sure how you'd feel about adventuring to save the orphanage though, considering how closely it resembles honest work.  ;)

[Mnemaxa]

There would likely have to be some coercion, threats, and demonstrations of superiority to convince Ruhk.  She doesn't like people to begin with, as you'll quickly realize....

[The Great Triangle]

Displays of dominance, you say?  Not something that Madragail has a problem with, although he's kind of bad at throwing down in general.

[Beautiful Lie]

*Eyes the illusionist* Copy cat *is teasing* I should let you get ahold of my stats and apply that info you have cause I don't understand half of what all that percentile stuff is you wrote down Mne  ???

Wonderfull char concepts I like.

[Ouria]

Still working on my character.  Thus far, my attempts to find my 2e PHB have been fruitless.

[The Great Triangle]

I've got the 2e PHB if you just want to kludge through character creation that way.  (physical copy, not PDF)

What concept were you planning on using?


Also, I just noticed that either of the characters submitted have nonweapon or weapon proficiencies filled in.  The nonweapon proficiencies are optional, but I'd recommends plowing into them like a bandit if the GM will let you get away with taking them.  (I just happen to like the stupid things, they flesh out a character concept.)

[RubySlippers]

I agree what kind of slutty, whorish, wanton gypsy woman doesn't dance and play the castanets or something?

[Mnemaxa]

Beautiful Lie:  Actually, my character gave up versatility to be an illusionist, mind you - she can't ever use a full third of the magic a wizard can, and she won't be able to blast stuff or protect herself with ease the way a normal wizard can.  Also, a lot of that stuff is more for the DM to be concerned with than us lowly players. ^_^ 

Great Triangle:  Actually not knowing if they're in use I left at least one slot for each of us open for just that purpose.  And TyTheDnDGuy mentioned he'd be giving us quirks and boons and such aside from that based on concepts and background.

RubySlippers:  Why, the kind that sneak into your room and slit your throat, or the ones that craft beautiful, terrible illusions of wonder and fear.  They're also both youngsters, relatively speaking and considering their camp was raided when they were about 13 they haven't had time to pick up the fun skills yet - survival takes up a lot of time.

^_^

[RubySlippers]

True.  ;D

[Ouria]

Well, I found them in the second to last place I looked.  I am behind schedule, but I shall do my best to catch up.  Estimated Time of Completion: Wednesday.

[Ouria]

Wow.  Now I remember why I never made any Rangers in 2nd Ed.

[Mnemaxa]

Don't worry, you'll make up for it in cool later. ^_^

[OldSchoolGamer]

Hey there! I have a character I'd like to join in with.

Name: Corr Makario
Gender: Female
Race: Human
Class: Thief 1st level
Height: 5'6"
Brief physical description: Corr is lithe and tautly muscled, olive skinned with collar-length black hair. She has a few shallow scars in various stages of fading, mostly on her right forearm. She is ambidextrous in most of her work, but has a stronger left hand. Her eyes are green-amber.

Quirks:

Strong-willed.  Years of rough-and-tumble life have made Corr just a little tougher mentally than she otherwise would be.  +2 to saving throws versus charm and sleep-based spells, +1 to save versus illusions.

Evader.  In her short life, Corr has learned that the foolproof way to avoid taking damage is not to be there when it's dished out.  +1 to Dexterity when calculating AC in combat.

[GrinningHound]

Am I too late?  I have my character mostly statted out now, and the background, while not fantastic, is pretty solid in my opinion.

The exact numbers I decided on are on my other computer, along with the book, but this is pretty close.

Gorin Murricane

N Human Fighter
str 18/30  +1 hit, +3 dam 135 weight 280 max press OD 12 BBLG20%
dex  10  No mods
con  12  80% SS 85% revive
int  8  1 bonus langs
wis  13 No mods
cha  10 4 Henchmen

HP 10
AC 8 w/ leather, 7 w/ shield
Thac0 20

Attack: 
Bastard Sword +2 to hit  3/2 attacks  1d8+5 one handed, 2d4+5 two handed
Handaxe: -1 to hit (-2 throwing) 1d6+3 damage

Saves:
Poison or Death Magic 14
Rod, Staff, Wand 16
Petrification, Polymorph  15
Breath Weapon 17
Spell 17

Weapon Profs: 
2 Spec Bastard Sword
2 Spec Longbow

Nonweapon:
1 Hunting
2 Endurance

Equipment:
Bastard Sword, leather armor, medium shield, 4 throwing axes, dagger, backpack, belt w/ 2 pouches, 50 ft. hemp rope w/ grappling hook, sack, winter blanket, 2 torches, flint and steel, flask of lamp oil, misc. stuff I don't care to list.

GP:  6 (I estimated)

Background:

His father was an abusive drunk who, with his mother, traveled with his uncle and his wife, a family of simple caravan traders.  Gorin traveled with them and their family friend and caravan guard Thremm, from whom he learned the barest basics of the warrior trade.  As he got old enough to understand more of the family business, he learned of the high taxes and unscrupulous policies of the powerful merchants his parents worked for, which kept them in near constant poverty.

One day his caravan was waylaid by highwaymen.  Gorin was helping to fend them off, being a rather strapping lad at this point.  Thremm was killed by a large orc, and his mother was shot in shoulder by a crossbow.  The orc, having been disarmed, leapt onto Gorin and brought him to the ground, as his two flunkies closed on them.  Gorin's father, thinking him dead for sure, ran off with the caravan to protect his wife and himself.

Gorin managed to wrestle the large orc off of himself, and flung him into one of the other attackers, tripping them both up.  The final struck him with the crossbow in the thigh, and the large orc regained his footing and weapon.  Rather than kill Gorin, he knocked him unconscious, and kept him, fascinated by his great strength.

Gorin then lived with the highwaymen, a sordid crew of assorted rogues, conmen, and thugs.  Having no lost love for his abusive father, he grew to rather appreciate their lifestyle, as rather than bow to the shady businessmen and abide by the petty laws of civilization, they took what they wanted and lived the good life.

Eventually, of course, the band was wiped out by a band of motley heroes come to claim the head of Grogg, the large orc warrior who led them.  Gorin, being no fool, took the opportunity to save his own life as it became obvious that they were outmatched and his companions were being slaughtered.

Him and Grogg fled, and Gorin took the opportunity to murder Grogg by crushing his neck in his hands, a sort of revenge for killing his friend Thremm.  Carrying the body out of the woods, back into the massacre, he dropped it at the feet of the heroic group, claiming that he had just so happened to be stalking the band as they came along.  They traveled for a bit together, but Gorin didn't get along with Reiner, the team's fervently moral leader.  They parted ways in Oldsted...

[Ouria]

Finally finished with my Wild Child

Name:   Khalla                     
Gender:   Female                     
Race:   Human                     
Class:   Ranger                     
Height:   5'6"   Weight:   119               
Appearance:
http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp228/Maibh/Khalla/Khalla.jpg

Min Stats:   STR: 13   DEX: 13   CON: 14   WIS: 14            
Stat:   Value   Cost   Point Total: 75      Remaining: 0         
STR:   13   13   Hit: +0, Dmg: +0, Weight: 45, Max Press: 140 Open Doors: 7 Bend Bars: 4%               
DEX:   16   18   Reaction Adj: +1, Missile Att: +1, Def Adj: -2               
CON:   14   14   Adj: 0, Shock: 88%, Survival: 92%, Save: 0 Regen: Nil               
INT:   8   8   Languages: 1               
WIS:   14   14   Mag Def Adj: 0, Bonus Spells: 1st, Spell Fail: 0%               
CHA:   8   8   Max # Henchmen: 3, Loyalty: -1, Reaction: 0               
Align:   Lawful Evilish (Which to me, means an Evil person with a code of honor, and a respect for heirarchy…until you are potent enough to overthrow the heirarchy)                     
                        
Weapons:      Weight   DAM   Factor   Short   Medium   Long   ROF   Cost   
Long Swords (2)      8   1d8   5   n/a   n/a   n/a   n/a   30   
Dagger         1   1d4   2   10   20   30   2 for 1   2   
Composite Long Bow   3   ammo   7   ammo   ammo   ammo   2 for 1   100   
12 Flight Arrows   n/a   1d6   n/a   60   120   210   n/a   0.3   
12 Sheaf Arrows      n/a   1d8   n/a   40   80   170   n/a   0.6   
Knife         0.5   1d3   2   10   20   30   2 for 1   0.5   
Armor:            Base AC                     
Studded Leather      25   7                  20   
Gear:                           
Soft Boots, Belt, Breeches, Cloak (Cloth), Brooch, Gloves, Tunic, Beltpouch (3 Large), Backpack, Flint and Steel, 3 Large Sacks, Silk Rope (50ft), Quiver, Whetstone, winter blanket, waterskin                              
Total Gear Cost:      31.32    gp
Total Gear Weight:   19.5   pounds                  
Proficiencies:                              
WP   4                           
NWP   3   Tracking (Free), Hunting, Swimming, Survival (forest)                        

Platinum   0   Electrum   0   Copper   18               
Gold   14   Silver   11                     

Total Weight:   57 pounds                     

Perk:
Quirk:
Flaw:

Background (warning, it is long):                        
A Child of the wilds, Khalla grew up in harsh circumstances.  Her mother died in childbirth, her father…she has no memory of.  She can only assume that he was not around (at least during a time she had memory of).  The wilds are unforgiving to those who have a weakness, and as such, she has few.  A lack of education in general has left her intellect undeveloped, a seed that was never planted.  Her lack of sentient company has left her poor company.  Indeed, she talks to herself...often more than to others.  In her early adulthood, she was captured by orc slavers, and sold.  Her first Master had quite a time of it, trying to get her to adapt to civilized slavelife, and to speak a human tongue.  He was the one who named her, and he eventually succeeded.  By a combination of threats (which he demonstrated on other slaves) and enticements (again,, other slaves were shown benefiting from their obedience), he convinced her to give her word to be a good slave, provided she got the opportunity to buy her way free.  She became an admirable pitfighter, quickly picking up the nuances of twin longblades.  Indeed, in the wilds, she hunted often with rudimentary spears, and later bows with stone-tipped arrows, and woulf often use two sharpened bones as 'blades'.  The had seen some other humans hunt and imitated them.  He did not long reap the benefits of her obedience, as he was an old man, and expired not long after.  Her second master was a greedy man, inheritor of her first's estate.  He was an indifferent master, and had little impact, changing nothing of the arrangements in the slave areas.  She won him money in the pits and arenas, as well as outside, as he began to sell other services of hers.  She is, after all, good looking...if not very personable.  His gambling habits became his downfall, and he expired in a back alley in some city.  Khalla was sold to a far off town to pay for his debts.  Her third master broke the deal.  He took her money, all that she had earned, and all that she earned in his service.  She took this to mean that the deal was off, and she was no longer required to be a good slave.  As such, she killed him.  Sadly for Khalla, he was a supporter (a very wealthy supporter) of one of the old men on the Council.  His heir was not.  The Council Member demanded she be tortured to death, but...as one might expect, he had a rival.  This rival benefitted from this shift in power and saw a potential in her.  After all, new game pieces were always so exciting!  So, he spoke against his rival, and bought Khalla.  She was immediately freed.  In her mind, this created a debt (him saving her life, that is).  Wild though she was, she has a strong internal sense of honor (one should not confuse this for a sense of justice, or any other such good or noble thing).  To repay this debt, she swore an oath of service to him, until his death, and now has a small place in his retinue.  It was he who outfitted her, for he has appearances to maintain.  Thus came she to the city of Oldsted.

[The Great Triangle]

Hmm... Want to have any link between your character and mine, Ouria?

I think it would provide a great dynamic if your character happened to be the retainer of my character's estranged father, possibly sent to "keep an eye on" my character, although with no explanation for why.  (with a subtle implication that if the charismatic young priest threatens the established order of Oldsted, to go and dispose of him.)

What do you think?

[Mnemaxa]

You do have a thing for plots and counterplots, don't you oh Triangular one....

Not that this is a bad thing.  *hides stack of papers that are being transcribed for his offline tabletop game*

[The Great Triangle]

The more focused everyone's background is, the less time we have to waste sitting uncomfortably trying to engage in small talk, and the more time we can spend plotting to take over the world.  :)

[Ouria]

An interesting thought, and one that promotes a bit of inter-party conflict/tension.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but...a thing to keep in mind is that my character lacks political subtlety.  If, indeed, your father is this council-member in my background, that offers possibilities.  I was vague on the council-member's identity intentionally.  The implication, however, would likely be largely lost on her, though, and she would probably assume that her task is to keep an eye on him, watch him and protect him.  If this is not a problem...

[The Great Triangle]

That works for me.  :) 

Of course, when your character realizes that my character is doing everything in his power to undermine her benefactor...

Yet what if he romanced her first?

*giggles at the possibilities*

[Mnemaxa]

Fighter, ranger, thief, illusionist, wizard, cleric.....a frighteningly well rounded party to say the least.

[GrinningHound]

Hmm....are my doot's stats decent?  He doesn't seem like he has great survivability for a front line guy.  No HP bonus and no dex bonus to AC, though I would prefer HP.

I don't want to knock off the mental stats too much though.  ???

Suggestions?

[The Great Triangle]

Be a strong idiot.  We've already got people to do your thinking for you.  :)

[GrinningHound]

I don't like playing idiots.

[The Great Triangle]

Well then be a big strong mysterious loner who doesn't need to hold extended conversations.  *grins*

[GrinningHound]

But then my character will get manipulated by certain other characters, and I do not heart that.

[The Great Triangle]

Well, you've got to suck at something.  Notice how dysfunctional Achillies was?  How Alexander screwed the pooch repeatedly on his tactics?  To be a great warrior, you need a great weakness.  (and probably a small one too.  Alex's was drinking.)

[GrinningHound]

Yeah, but having someone else play my character is not my idea of a good time.  Thus, I want to be able to resist certain charismatic individuals.

Not that that's possible in this rules system.  One Reaction roll and suddenly you have to be 'very friendly' or whatever.  Lame.

[The Great Triangle]

*sighs*  You know that isn't how the rules work between PCs.  Planning kingdoms and ruling the world is a pretty good occupation for a fighter, but you have to choose between being Hercules or Alexander.  You can't be both.  If you're going to avoid the influence of others, I sure as hell hope you've got a plan for your life.  Being smart with nothing to do isn't particularly worthwhile.  :)

[GrinningHound]

Hrmm.  I guess.

Is Wisdom really useful when it's not high enough for the save resistances?  There are some nice Non weapon profs that use it, but is it worth the extra few points that could be spent having enough hit points so that a couple ogres don't take me down with a lucky crit?

I suppose that goes for Cha as well.  Though I usually don't like to use it as a dump stat, it's not really helping me sucking points away from something useful.  A 10 is no reaction bonus or anything, so why not just go a little lower?  Besides, people don't usually like big scary murderers. :P

[Mnemaxa]

Hrmm.  I guess.

Is Wisdom really useful when it's not high enough for the save resistances?  There are some nice Non weapon profs that use it, but is it worth the extra few points that could be spent having enough hit points so that a couple ogres don't take me down with a lucky crit?

I suppose that goes for Cha as well.  Though I usually don't like to use it as a dump stat, it's not really helping me sucking points away from something useful.  A 10 is no reaction bonus or anything, so why not just go a little lower?  Besides, people don't usually like big scary murderers. :P

That is correct, but then again, it's impossible to raise stats in this game without wishes or magic items of great power.  A lower stat remains lower almost forever, and the boost items  - by DM's fiat - give a set stat level rather than a bonus to your stat.  so you have to consider those options.  and also, he's stated that ALL stats are important in some way or another, so don't presume that a lower stat won't hurt you.  On the other hand, a id level stat doesn't necessarily help either, you're right.

[Beautiful Lie]

Fighting classes generally get the shaft when it comes to dealing with the Int/Wis/Cha. in the games i've played. Of course generally being able to smash things without even trying prevents people from mocking said fighters too much >.>;;

[The Great Triangle]

Because of my character's low intelligence, he'll need an adviser to plot the big picture stuff while he engages in the more public evil overlording.  Given the handy Balseraph illusionist, and the odd wizard he met, he certainly won't have much trouble finding someone.  Now it's just a matter of figuring out who to place his trust in...

[Beautiful Lie]

lol :)

[GrinningHound]

Fighting classes generally get the shaft when it comes to dealing with the Int/Wis/Cha. in the games i've played. Of course generally being able to smash things without even trying prevents people from mocking said fighters too much >.>;;

Spellcasters can smash things without even trying.  We have enough of them though.  :P

[Mnemaxa]

Because of my character's low intelligence, he'll need an adviser to plot the big picture stuff while he engages in the more public evil overlording.  Given the handy Balseraph illusionist, and the odd wizard he met, he certainly won't have much trouble finding someone.  Now it's just a matter of figuring out who to place his trust in...

That is of course presuming he gets the illusionist and not her sister the thief. ^_^  It might be awkward if he gets conflicting suggestions from the same person all the time....

[Ouria]

More important than having the perfectly honed character is having a character you will have fun with.  So, pick what allows you to have fun and go with it.  Suck up the stat problems and rationalize it.  The PHB does say that even though you have a low Int does not mean you are rock stupid.  It might mean a lesser capacity for critical thinking, a lesser amount of education, etc.

Take my character.  She is not stupid, but she is highly inexperienced in 'civilized' intellectual pursuits.  More advanced math, politics...not things she excels at.  History?  I voluntarily fail those sorts of checks.  Charisma.  She is not charismatic.  Not even in the slightest.  She probably smells off because she believes in using natural scents (she does bathe, but only because it is asked of her, otherwise, when she swims or it rains would do).  She is NOT eloquent.  Again, language is a second language for her.  Not educated.  Remember, most of the people in this time period had crap for education.  Low Wisdom might indicate impulsiveness, not being a damn fool.

[Beautiful Lie]

Preach it :)

[Ouria]

*coughs* :-[

Okay, maybe I got a bit emotional in my word choice.  That was not intentional.  But, I think I made my point.

[GrinningHound]

My problem lies not within playing a flawed character, but within playing a character who dies before I get a chance to play much of him.

In my experience gaming, I lose LOTS of characters.


Also, there's another angle you aren't seeing.  I am in fact obsessive compulsive.  For example, in certain video games with highly customizable characters and sensitive plot structures, I will start over again and again and again until I am satisfied with exactly how things turn out.  When I played through Mass Effect I saved before every dialogue, just so I could try every option, then reloaded and went ahead with the choice I liked best.

It's awkward...  I apologize if I seem very nitpicky.  I'm not trying to minmax, I'm just trying to make the character I will most enjoy playing, and who will hopefully live through a few encounters.  Tabletop, I play the warrior type, and they die....

[OldSchoolGamer]

One reason I came up with the point-buy system is to ensure that EVERY character has weaknesses.  There will be no characters in this game with all their stats over 12.  Not gonna happen.  Almost all great people had flaws.  A master thief might have a low Constitution and catch colds easily.  A wizard might be butt-ugly with a 7 Charisma...perhaps his very ugliness is what led him to sequester himself from the rest of humanity and hone his magical skills.  A priest might be beloved by her goddess...but with an 8 Dexterity be exceedingly clumsy, even as she is strong in the face of adversity (15 Constitution).  With my system, you can't have more than one, maybe two high stats at most without taking a hit somewhere.

So there are no dump stats, but if you have a low stat, you'll be in good company.

[Nadir]

Quirks:

Strong-willed.  Years of rough-and-tumble life have made Corr just a little tougher mentally than she otherwise would be.  +2 to saving throws versus charm and sleep-based spells, +1 to save versus illusions.

Evader.  In her short life, Corr has learned that the foolproof way to avoid taking damage is not to be there when it's dished out.  +1 to Dexterity when calculating AC in combat.

Sounds good to me. ^_^

[OldSchoolGamer]

Am I too late?  I have my character mostly statted out now, and the background, while not fantastic, is pretty solid in my opinion.

The exact numbers I decided on are on my other computer, along with the book, but this is pretty close.

Gorin Murricane

N Human Fighter

Quirks:

Tough.  Gorin is able to keep on fighting despite punishment that would bring a typical warrior down.  If Gorin is between -x hp and 0 hp, inclusive, where "x" is equal to his level, he may attempt a Constitution check.  If successful, he remains conscious and can continue to fight as if he has 1 hit point.  If he takes additional damage before healing can be applied, he goes unconscious (or dead, if at -10hp or lower).  This ability does not affect Gorin's actual hit point count.

Hard Charger.  Gorin charges hard into a fight, giving him added opportunity to inflict damage...but perhaps leaving himself vulnerable in return.  On first round of combat in a battle, Gorin gets +1 to hit and +20% to damage, but suffers a +1 penalty to his A.C.

[Beautiful Lie]

When do we intend to get this started / are all the players ready? :)

[OldSchoolGamer]

When do we intend to get this started / are all the players ready? :)

Yes, where did the week go?

I've been a bit busy lately, but what I'm going to do is to post a few legends, stories and rumors circulating around Oldsted.  These are designed to provide a starting point for characters to adventure.  Be warned: some of what is posted is absolutely true.  Some is mainly true, though with a few differences between story and reality.  Some is based on truth, but substantially different from reality.  And some is completely false.  You won't know which is which...but following any of the stories, myths, and legends WILL lead to adventure!

[The Great Triangle]

Does my character get any handy quirks?  (or does selecting a custom kit and using the animal friendship spell to get animal companions take up my quirk slots?)

[GrinningHound]

Oooh, my quirks is sexy.

Hrmmm.....I have another character idea as well, classic paladin gone wrong situation, though it absolutely wouldn't work as a dual class option with Gorin, because his Charisma isn't high enough.

I can't quite decide who I'd rather play, the enormous thug, or the awe and terror inspiring Dark Knight type of villain.

[The Great Triangle]

Play da thug!  Thugs are sexier.  :)


(also less prone to breaking down crying after slaughtering all the men of an outlying village and lining up the women to be raped by a gang of goblnoids, so that the entire attack can be blamed on the negligence and cowardce of the local authorities.)

<.<

>.>

Not that we'd be doing anything like that.

(and then accepting a contract to wipe out the goblins to double our profits)

[GrinningHound]

Well, the way I see it there's not actually a reason to kill and rape villagers, unless there's a distinct advantage in doing so.  Like if I have to expand the parking lot of my keep.

Hmmm....oh, but the dark paladin would be sexy!  Deluxe sexy!  I'm thinking a pretty half elven lad, with a smidge of demonic blood that he doesn't know about, that sometimes makes him do naughty things, and then he conjures up an imaginary friend to cope psychologically, but slowly starts becoming that imaginary friend.  :P

He wouldn't be super strong, but he'd still be a great murderer by virtue of cunning and deception, and of course Blackguards gain some cool powers along the way.  :)

[The Great Triangle]

There is a distinct advantage in raping and killing.  Spreading fear.  If villagers have to worry that they will be killed at any moment by bandits and their children forced into a life of violent vengeance, they'll give anything to anyone who promises to somehow stop the chaos.   Perhaps even if the poor sheep are dimly aware that those who can stop the devastation are also responsible for causing it.

Now, of course, a lawful evil person starts conscripting stormtroopers at this point, while a chaotic evil person has all of the village elders killed, and goes around collecting tribute at random.  Of course, being under the heel of a tyrant or a warlord is still better than what those bastards would do if you didn't pay the protection costs.

The real issue isn't what you can accomplish by spreading fear and misery, but why you want to do so.  For my character, he wants to get revenge against his father, and honor his Goddess.  Perhaps when he's the ruler of these lands, he can free people from their quaint notions of racial purity, and reorganize society to live in harmony with the phases of the moon, banning slavery and prostitution.  (there will be no need for harlots when all sexual behavior is considered acceptable)


The only real problem is dealing with those pesky "hero" types, and possibly that little voice inside of you that tells you what you're doing is wrong. 

Better not tell anyone about that, if you don't want to get eaten alive by your companions.

[GrinningHound]

Hm.  Well, I don't think I'll be playing a would be conqueror type.  More like a roaming asshole, I'm thinking.  He isn't mean to people for the sake of being mean and scary, but he just plain doesn't have a whole lot of empathy.

He's only level one, and currently a mercenary, not necessarily a bad guy, so I have time to develop his motivations.  According to his background and upbringing, he would feel that anyone who allows themselves to be pushed around deserves it for not having the backbone to resist.

[The Great Triangle]

I see... would he happen to have need of a wimpy but good looking fellow who's always talking to invisible sky faeries and handing out money to go on vaguely defined "quests"?  After all, such an individual could be quite easily pushed around.  Even his dog looks unhealthy and sick.  ;)


(protip: threats and force of arms aren't the best ways to control people, but they're a hell of a lot of fun.)

[OldSchoolGamer]

Does my character get any handy quirks?  (or does selecting a custom kit and using the animal friendship spell to get animal companions take up my quirk slots?)

Madragail's quirks:

Conniving.  Half huckster, half con man, and half backstabber, Madragail has a knack for convincing others to go along with whatever devious plan he has at a given moment.  +2 to Charisma when trying to con others.

Resistant to Cold.  Having spent many nights in the elements, Madragail has developed a high tolerance for cold.  +1 to saves versus magical cold, -10% to damage, -2 to Constitution checks related to enduring exposure to cold.

[Mnemaxa]

Ruhk's motivations are usually simple.  She wants to be near her sister.  Where Corr goes, she follows....but she follows like an avenging angel, or a creeping darkness of night fog that strangles you in your sleep.  If you slight her sister, or touch her without permission, she will turn into a scary ball of violent psychosis (and depending on what spells she has loaded, this may appear quite literal).   Appearances deceive, and in this case, a young girl can seem harmless and quiet and shy. 

But the one with the highest body count is NOT Corr.

[Zakharra]

 Is this a go or not?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Yes this is a go...my apologies for the delay.  I'm going to try and get an introduction up in the next couple days.  Once I get my PDA the pace will pick up.

[Zakharra]

 Ok. I figured the oncoming holiday might have changed some peoples plans, or at the least made posting harder.

[Mnemaxa]

Yeah, holidays are hard on any play-by-post game. 

:(

[OldSchoolGamer]

I started a thread for the game here: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=26389.0

[Zakharra]

 Yay!

[Mnemaxa]

As a side note, is that the thread we are meant to begin posting in?  Also, I was wondering if our Lunarian cleric with the orphanage might have a secret marking or visible indicator that the orphanage or church is a safe haven for other Lunarians and gypsy folken?  That would make it much easier for Ruhk and Corr to join tat location.

[OldSchoolGamer]

As a side note, is that the thread we are meant to begin posting in?  Also, I was wondering if our Lunarian cleric with the orphanage might have a secret marking or visible indicator that the orphanage or church is a safe haven for other Lunarians and gypsy folken?  That would make it much easier for Ruhk and Corr to join tat location.

Yes, absolutely.  Secret sigils, signs, handshakes, etc. were all rather standard for secret societies and underground religions.  Still are IRL, actually--Freemasons, for instance.

[GrinningHound]

Can I post or do I have my own thread?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Can I post or do I have my own thread?

You can start your own thread if you want...I'll have my "world" meet your character wherever he or she is at.  The town is a rather typical mid-sized fantasy-epic frontier town, complete with taverns, supply stores, temples, smiths, farms, and so on.