Zombie apocalypse now?

[TheGlyphstone]

Even if the menace is sexy young woman advancing toward you with a sharp tool in her hand, with her eyes being... the blackest eyes?

Sharp objects being handled with menace in my direction are decidedly not sexy.

[Mathim]

Even if the menace is sexy young woman advancing toward you with a sharp tool in her hand, with her eyes being... the blackest eyes?

ESPECIALLY in that case. Such a waste. At least if she becomes a zombie she won't look hot anymore.

[Beorning]

Come on! Wouldn't you want to embrace such a woman and help her find her humanity again?  ;D

[Nachtmahr]

One thing I never understood in zombie apocalypses is: Who is starting all those fires?

You always see the White House or any another national symbol on fire, along with big cities that are crumbling and ruined. If zombies are slow, barely functioning brutes, how would they go about wrecking New York in it's entirety? And why on earth would they start a fire on the 225th floor of some skyscraper?

The thing about stereotypical zombie viruses is also that it tends to be spread through biting or similar physical interactions. Any disease that spreads like that from people who are clearly already infected isn't actually very dangerous. it's pretty easy to round up and contain anyone who was likely exposed and to quarantine an area to keep other possibly infected confined. Like someone said pretty early on: It's not that people arne't prepared to fight a disease, like with Ebola. The threat of Ebola was never quite as big as the media tried to make it - Sensationalism usually leads to controlled chaos being perceived as just chaos.

[Beorning]

Zombies starting fires dates back to the original Night Of The Living Dead... Maybe these fires appear because zombies cause such chaos that things get out of control? People are killed and don't turn off their ovens or stuff like that...

As for the "uncontrollable epidemics" aspect of zombie stories, I'd say it comes from the fact the infected there are actually very violent and don't allow themselves to be quarantined. Also, considering their violent nature, they can infect others easily... and the infection can take effect quite fast. So, the epidemic isn't that easily controllable as one might think.

Still, it's true that the zombie apocalypse is a bit of overblown scenario...

[Spear80]

i imagine the people fighting the zombies start the fire. They might accidentally miss a shot, and hit something flamable, or they toss a molotov that gets a little out of hand. (and until the muscle is burned, zombies might be able to move while on fire, with terrible consiquences for your curtains)

As for containment, In a zombieclypse, that usually is the problem, at first victims are hospitalized often treated, try giving CPR to a newly dead zombie. (walking dead webisode!, i think) If no vitals show it's the morgue, once it overflows the school gym. Then they rise, and they burst out, taking down whomever in their path. Do that in enough places, like every hospital in New York and there are a lot of deadites roaming, with police possibly trying to recontain them. By the time people figure out, to go for headshots rather than wrestiling them down and cuff them, it might be to late for a lot of people and places.

[Oniya]

One thing I never understood in zombie apocalypses is: Who is starting all those fires?

You always see the White House or any another national symbol on fire, along with big cities that are crumbling and ruined. If zombies are slow, barely functioning brutes, how would they go about wrecking New York in it's entirety? And why on earth would they start a fire on the 225th floor of some skyscraper?

I imagine that the fire department is either among the first to get infected (being first responders) or quite busy trying to save lives.  As such, any sources of fire, (like lightning strikes, cigarettes dropped in apartments during an attack, car accidents between panicky civilians, third-rails shorted out by wandering corpses, and the like) are more likely to continue burning for longer than they would ordinarily.

[TheGlyphstone]

As always, when these topics come up, I'm struck by a quote that came out of a Cracked article of all places. "A zombie's apex predator is also that zombie's only food source and its only means of reproduction. This is like having to wrestle an adult lion into submission every time you want to have sex or eat a sandwich."

If a zombie eats its victim - particularly their brain, which all zombies apparently crave - bam, no new zombie, and mindless zombies aren't going to just stop killing/eating someone once they have suffered just enough damage to become a zombie in return. If the zombie bites someone but that person manages to kill the zombie before they succumb, net zombie population change=0. One human being who manages to kill two zombies before they are infected=-1 net zombie population, and the ratio just gets more unfavorable from there when we start using guns and defenses.

Humans are the deadliest things on planet Earth, and it's not because of our physical traits. It's because we are smart, sneaky, ruthless, tool-using sons-and-daughters-of-bitches, everything that a shambling corpse is not. You basically have to make a zombie a magical super-monster that ignores both physics and biology to result in it being any sort of threat. There is a very good reason almost all popular zombie stories (Walking Dead is a good topical example) only start 'after the end', because showing the end itself would be incredibly unrealistic. Stack on the fact that we are innundated with zombies in popular culture, and the odds of any Patient Zero managing to start any sort of outbreak is basically fantasy. I love post-apocalyptic stories, but zombies are pretty much the one flavor I just can't take seriously enough.

I'd be more scared of a mass uprising of murderous cows than a zombie plague. Cows are smarter than zombies, and much harder to incapacitate. And they outweigh the total humans on earth, in terms of body mass, by a significant degree.

[Mathim]

As always, when these topics come up, I'm struck by a quote that came out of a Cracked article of all places. "A zombie's apex predator is also that zombie's only food source and its only means of reproduction. This is like having to wrestle an adult lion into submission every time you want to have sex or eat a sandwich."

If a zombie eats its victim - particularly their brain, which all zombies apparently crave - bam, no new zombie, and mindless zombies aren't going to just stop killing/eating someone once they have suffered just enough damage to become a zombie in return. If the zombie bites someone but that person manages to kill the zombie before they succumb, net zombie population change=0. One human being who manages to kill two zombies before they are infected=-1 net zombie population, and the ratio just gets more unfavorable from there when we start using guns and defenses.

Humans are the deadliest things on planet Earth, and it's not because of our physical traits. It's because we are smart, sneaky, ruthless, tool-using sons-and-daughters-of-bitches, everything that a shambling corpse is not. You basically have to make a zombie a magical super-monster that ignores both physics and biology to result in it being any sort of threat. There is a very good reason almost all popular zombie stories (Walking Dead is a good topical example) only start 'after the end', because showing the end itself would be incredibly unrealistic. Stack on the fact that we are innundated with zombies in popular culture, and the odds of any Patient Zero managing to start any sort of outbreak is basically fantasy. I love post-apocalyptic stories, but zombies are pretty much the one flavor I just can't take seriously enough.

I'd be more scared of a mass uprising of murderous cows than a zombie plague. Cows are smarter than zombies, and much harder to incapacitate. And they outweigh the total humans on earth, in terms of body mass, by a significant degree.

They showed the end itself during the remake of Dawn of the Dead. But that was only plausible because they could run. The slow, shambling ones could never, as you say, be shown to plausibly do so in a movie/TV show. It's always the aftermath where it's too late in those cases. Although they gave it the old college try in the opening animated scene from Resident Evil Nemesis (the video game, not the movie).

If you're freaked out by zombie animals, check out the New Zealand-based horror film Black Sheep. It's actually really good, not just because of the weird, out-of-left-field themes. They're not as physically imposing as cows but once they go all feral, watch your ass.

[TheGlyphstone]

All I know about Black Sheep is that there's a scene where a zombie sheep eats a man's penis.

[Beorning]

If a zombie eats its victim - particularly their brain, which all zombies apparently crave - bam, no new zombie, and mindless zombies aren't going to just stop killing/eating someone once they have suffered just enough damage to become a zombie in return.

Exactly. I've always wondered: if zombies eat humans, then why the number of zombies seems to grow geometrically? The more zombies, the more successful they would be at eating people... meaning, at some point the number of zombies should stop growing. The horde would eat completely everyone they can capture, with no new zombies being created.

I'd be more scared of a mass uprising of murderous cows than a zombie plague. Cows are smarter than zombies, and much harder to incapacitate. And they outweigh the total humans on earth, in terms of body mass, by a significant degree.

How about man-eating boars? I had that idea last week, when I heard about our farmers' problems with boars... and how, apparently, our boars grew so populous and bold that they started appearing in city center.

Of course, as I mentioned earlier, the best scenario is the uprising of murderous humans...  ;D

[Mathim]

All I know about Black Sheep is that there's a scene where a zombie sheep eats a man's penis.

LOL, yes, that's why I purposely said watch your ass instead of giving away that delightfully creative tidbit.

[TheGlyphstone]

...an Apocowlypse would be scary. A Boarpocalypse would be utterly, utterly terrifying. Remember what I said about cows being smarter than zombies and tougher to kill? Pigs are incredibly smart, and wild ones are even tougher to kill than cows.

[Beorning]

Also, remember that a boar isn't just a feral pig. It has tusks...

And heck, even ordinary boar means trouble, if it's angry. Just think what a horde of *crazy* boars would do...

Speaking of intelligent animals, how about squidocalypse? Or dolphinocalypse?

[Oniya]

They showed the end itself during the remake of Dawn of the Dead. But that was only plausible because they could run. The slow, shambling ones could never, as you say, be shown to plausibly do so in a movie/TV show. It's always the aftermath where it's too late in those cases. Although they gave it the old college try in the opening animated scene from Resident Evil Nemesis (the video game, not the movie).

If you're freaked out by zombie animals, check out the New Zealand-based horror film Black Sheep. It's actually really good, not just because of the weird, out-of-left-field themes. They're not as physically imposing as cows but once they go all feral, watch your ass.

Oh dear - Fenton lives!

[TheGlyphstone]

Not much ocean-going creatures can do to threaten civilization, unfortunately. At worst, they wreck the coastal tourism industries of some states/provinces/small countries.

Also, remember that a boar isn't just a feral pig. It has tusks...

And heck, even ordinary boar means trouble, if it's angry. Just think what a horde of *crazy* boars would do...

Exactly. They're angry feral pigs with giant spears on their face.

Now I want to see Boarpocalypse as a ScyFy original movie...

[Oniya]

Or maybe Boarmaggedon?

[Beorning]

Not much ocean-going creatures can do to threaten civilization, unfortunately. At worst, they wreck the coastal tourism industries of some states/provinces/small countries.

Unless they mutate and get the ability to survive on land, of course...  :o

[Zakharra]

 The most realistic setting for a zombie apocalypse is a mutated form of rabies. Spread through the air, it infects people, and the people start spreading the virus before they know they are sick, for a week or more. Then there's about 1-2 weeks or so of increasingly violent behavior before the paralysis sets in and then death.  Other than that, there's no way a zombie apocalypse could happen. Dead flesh simply does not work that way.

[TheGlyphstone]

The most realistic setting for a zombie apocalypse is a mutated form of rabies. Spread through the air, it infects people, and the people start spreading the virus before they know they are sick, for a week or more. Then there's about 1-2 weeks or so of increasingly violent behavior before the paralysis sets in and then death.  Other than that, there's no way a zombie apocalypse could happen. Dead flesh simply does not work that way.

Rage zombies are also problematic, because they always seem to suffer from conveniently selective biology. They get all the perks of a hyperactive sprinting rabid human who ignores pain, but there is never a good reason given for where they get the food energy to move like that, or how they get enough water to continue functioning; a few days of dehydration will kill a person, worse under intensive physical activity. They're certainly more plausible than shamblers, though.

An airborne toxin can explain spread, but if the primary infection vector isn't bites/injury from infectees, I'm not really sure there is any connection to zombies anymore at that point.

[Wolven Soul]

One thing I never understood in zombie apocalypses is: Who is starting all those fires?

You always see the White House or any another national symbol on fire, along with big cities that are crumbling and ruined. If zombies are slow, barely functioning brutes, how would they go about wrecking New York in it's entirety? And why on earth would they start a fire on the 225th floor of some skyscraper?

The thing about stereotypical zombie viruses is also that it tends to be spread through biting or similar physical interactions. Any disease that spreads like that from people who are clearly already infected isn't actually very dangerous. it's pretty easy to round up and contain anyone who was likely exposed and to quarantine an area to keep other possibly infected confined. Like someone said pretty early on: It's not that people arne't prepared to fight a disease, like with Ebola. The threat of Ebola was never quite as big as the media tried to make it - Sensationalism usually leads to controlled chaos being perceived as just chaos.

Well, in a lot of zombie stories, the original virus is initially airborne.  So it spreads to just about everyone.  The bite just makes it happen faster.  But if everyone who dies turns no matter how they die, it gets out of hand real quick because there is always people dying. 

Otherwise I would tend to agree, that it should be fairly easy to contain and deal with.  As for the fires, I would say that is usually more humans than the zombies themselves, as humans are far more destructive than the zombies.  All the zombies wanna do is chow down after all.  :P

[Wolven Soul]

If a zombie eats its victim - particularly their brain, which all zombies apparently crave - bam, no new zombie, and mindless zombies aren't going to just stop killing/eating someone once they have suffered just enough damage to become a zombie in return. If the zombie bites someone but that person manages to kill the zombie before they succumb, net zombie population change=0. One human being who manages to kill two zombies before they are infected=-1 net zombie population, and the ratio just gets more unfavorable from there when we start using guns and defenses.

I have only ever seen one series where the zombie goes for the brain, that being, Return of the Living Dead.  Zombies tend to chow down on people all the way up to the point where they turn and get back up.  Usually, they are not actually completely mindless.  Romero zombies for instance often seem to have some kind of residual memory.  Bubba for instance from Day of the Dead, was possibly once  soldier, for when he saw an officer, he saluted.  Then there was the black zombie in Land of the Dead who kept trying to use a jackhammer. 

Even in other zombie fictions, the zombies at least retain base instincts.  Not intelligent by any means of course, but their sense of smell seems to function just fine, and they seem to prefer life meat or at least freshly dead meat.  Otherwise they would just chow down on each other I would think.

[TheGlyphstone]

I have only ever seen one series where the zombie goes for the brain, that being, Return of the Living Dead.  Zombies tend to chow down on people all the way up to the point where they turn and get back up.  Usually, they are not actually completely mindless.  Romero zombies for instance often seem to have some kind of residual memory.  Bubba for instance from Day of the Dead, was possibly once  soldier, for when he saw an officer, he saluted.  Then there was the black zombie in Land of the Dead who kept trying to use a jackhammer. 

Even in other zombie fictions, the zombies at least retain base instincts.  Not intelligent by any means of course, but their sense of smell seems to function just fine, and they seem to prefer life meat or at least freshly dead meat.  Otherwise they would just chow down on each other I would think.

Which is still a problem, because a crippled zombie with crucial muscles eaten away is useless for spreading the infection further - can't grapple without function arms/walk with functional legs/do pretty much anything with certain torso muscle groups gone.

It is worth mentioning Romero, though, because everyone seems to forget that the original zombie movie - Night of the Living Dead itself - ends with the humans turning the tide and killing off the ghouls. It was a small-scale horror, about one group of people trapped and mostly eaten by the living dead; later imitators decided that wasn't epic/scary enough and made the whole world be affected instead. And thus we get to today.

[Mathim]

I wrote a short zombie story (in movie script form) where it turns out that aliens use nanomachines like an artificial virus to infect certain select individuals worldwide (those in hospice condition, with less than 6 months to live) and other key people who were otherwise doing nothing with their lives, and that started the epidemic. In the end, that explained biological reanimation which just isn't possible even with a space-born virus, and the continuation of motor function without a steady fuel source. I never made clear whether the aliens did this with indifference to humanity's survival or to simply weed out the unfit and save only those worthy from an oncoming cataclysm that would have wiped everybody out anyway.

I mean, whether it's a man-made plague or some kind of spacey germ, neither really covers all the bases. It took me a while to come up with a plausible idea that did. And the way I set it up, basically eliminating players from the game who weren't going to survive anyway and initiating the infection in parts of the population that people were either not keen to lose (and therefore not willing to take out themselves) or those that were basically ignored and left to cause trouble because nobody cared enough. Interesting dichotomy, no?

[Wolven Soul]

Which is still a problem, because a crippled zombie with crucial muscles eaten away is useless for spreading the infection further - can't grapple without function arms/walk with functional legs/do pretty much anything with certain torso muscle groups gone.

It is worth mentioning Romero, though, because everyone seems to forget that the original zombie movie - Night of the Living Dead itself - ends with the humans turning the tide and killing off the ghouls. It was a small-scale horror, about one group of people trapped and mostly eaten by the living dead; later imitators decided that wasn't epic/scary enough and made the whole world be affected instead. And thus we get to today.

At the end of that one movie yes, but as we see in Dawn of the Dead, things get out of hand yet again real fast.

You make a good point though about the cripples zombies.  They would not be of much use, but one thing about zombies, you can't ever really count them out completely until you crack open that noggin.  :P