Something in regards to US police racism...

Started by Beorning, March 17, 2019, 11:46:53 AM

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Beorning

This article made it into my FB feed today:

https://dailypositiveinfo.com/mans-facebook-post-about-traffic-stop-goes-viral/

In the past, I've read stories how there's racism among US cops that can lead to a black person being badly treated / harmed / killed in spite of not having done nothing wrong. On the other hand, here's a black guy who claims that such cases might actually come from black people's attitude when being questioned by the cops... I'm wondering what you think about it, guys?

Personally, I'd say that this one man's good experience with cops doesn't mean that other black people don't get bad treatment somewhere else... On the other hand, I know that having a bad attitude can get one into trouble. So, I'd be interested in your opinions...

Orval Wintermute

I think there's a danger of a positive feedback loop in action:

Police treat black person badly.
News of mistreatment of black person spreads.
Black people become more distrustful of police.
Black people become more adversarial around police.
Police act with more force\aggression than absolutely necessary with black suspects.
return to start.

Exactly when or how these things started is always going to be the subject of debate, go back the civil rights movement in the US and it's not hard to see Police brutality. Then you've got incidents like Rodney King in the 90's and more recently Eric Garner. It becomes hard not to see the Police as being institutionally racist and react accordingly.

Tamhansen

I remember in the late 90's travelling the US with a black classmate. (Granted we were in the south east, so this might be a bit more common there than elsewhere) We were headed to Atlanta to start work. I was asleep in the back seat of his Benz. Suddenly, just after crossing into Georgia, we get pulled over by state troopers. They don't notice me lying there, so to them it's a 19 year old black kid driving an $80k car. Instant hostility ensued. My friend stays calm, follows their command but they still tell him to get out of the car, and tell him to stand to the side while they search his car.

Be aware that at this time, my friend still hasn't been told why he's been pulled over, has given no offense, and has not consented to his car being searched. He just stands there, as one officer steps into the car. At that point I rise up, and quite rudely tell the officer to get out of the car. My friend freaking out and trying to get me to shut up. Now all of us on the side of the road again, I ask the GSP why they pulled us over, and why they entered the car without consent. They tell me he was speeding, which he was not. When I asked them how that led to them entering the car, they litterally said they suspected drugs in the car. They could not formulate a good reason for that, nor probable cause. To me they're somewhat apologetic and polite, even though I was rude.

Now I'm pretty sure that a lot of people have heard stories similar to mine, and it isn't just the police either. Even in Atlanta, one of the blackest cities in the US, people often tended to be more polite and considerate towards me than to him.

I headed back to Europe two years later, but he's still living there.


And even now, with all these permit patties and bbq betties it becomes more and more clear it isn't just the police. The police issues are just more pronounced
ons and offs

They left their home of summer ease
Beneath the lowland's sheltering trees,
To seek, by ways unknown to all,
The promise of the waterfall.

Mantis Shrimp Prime

Even if people have attitude issues when dealing with the police,  it should be the responsibility of the police to be professional and handle it without flipping out.

No other professional is allowed to do that.  Police authority should require greater responsibility and accountability.  Not a license to harass, rob, rape, or murder whoever they please.

Iniquitous

I agree with Orval - but I will also say this as the daughter/sister/niece and cousin of law enforcement officers... if a cop tells you to do something, even if you believe him/her to be in the wrong, do it.  If you argue with them, if you refuse to do what they are telling you, it is going to go badly. For you.  I agree that there is a problem and I know that what I said rankles feathers.
Bow to the Queen; I'm the Alpha, the Omega, everything in between.


Tamhansen

Quote from: Iniquitous on March 18, 2019, 07:37:54 PM
if a cop tells you to do something, even if you believe him/her to be in the wrong, do it.  If you argue with them, if you refuse to do what they are telling you, it is going to go badly. For you. 

This, this gestapo attitude that certain elements in the american law enforcement have is a major issue. In any other country you can politely discuss the situation with police officers. Not in the US. Disagree and suddenly you 'shoot yourself in the mouth with your hands cuffed behind your back'

Cops need to learn that they are first and foremost there to protect the citizens, not to go on power trips because you have some shield.

I remember a year or two back, US police officers came to the Netherlands on some kind of school trip to see how situations were handled here. And they were simply amazed at the fact that people here are unafraid of the police, even black folk. But the most shocking situation was when two police officers were confronted with an aggressive and threatening man wielding a knife. Instead of shooting him 232 times, the dutch police simply overpowered him, brought him to the ground and arrested him.

Now I know there are loads of good people in the US police forces, but somehow there is a culture of 'the police are zookeepers, and the public are wild animals that must be kept in check' coupled with a ridiculous militarization of police forces, and I think way too many nights of watching Judge Dredd.
ons and offs

They left their home of summer ease
Beneath the lowland's sheltering trees,
To seek, by ways unknown to all,
The promise of the waterfall.

Twisted Crow

I would say that some contibutes to how well police is trained and staffed in relation to their environment's trending problems.

In Houston, particularly, our police is stretched rather thin. They are undermanned with a lot of ground to cover. Criminals are often armed with guns here (legally or otherwise). There is no "wrestling them down", in these situations. This is often a "Drop your weapon or we will open fire" situation. A prevailent culture still in America glorifies crime and "thug life" in black culture in all sorts of media and... outside of the box, it is too easy to otherwise frame blacks as part of this culture "by default". So we have two big problems working in tandem, there.

I feel that if we stop painting an abstract glory in creating these criminal role models, we help this culture flourish into something else. It is more than "not enough blacks have jobs". That is a lazy barb that I have often seen tossed in that problem. Culturally, our problems go deeper. Blacks typically have a systemic disadvantage in this country, and this is one of the issues that I feel that we need to change.

Of course, racism can be found anywhere. So accountability does still lie with police officers to "serve and protect" and remain professional, but at the same time I feel that we as a nation need to hold others accountable as well. We need to work on a lot more than itchy trigger fingers in policemen.

Media should be no exception in where they need to be an example, instead. It comes with good journalism and entertainment that is honest about the ugliness in criminal life, not the romantization and perpetuation of stereotypes. I feel that this could benefit everyone (of any race) in the long run.

Regina Minx

Quote from: Iniquitous on March 18, 2019, 07:37:54 PM
... if a cop tells you to do something, even if you believe him/her to be in the wrong, do it.

Quote from: Tamhansen on March 19, 2019, 03:38:54 AM
This, this gestapo attitude that certain elements in the american law enforcement have is a major issue...

Well, for what it's worth, if I engage with a police officer in an adversarial situation...I've been pulled over for getting a ticket, for instance, I am going to comply with all directions given. Even if they're illegal. Especially if they're illegal. If I'm told to strip naked and smear myself with peanut butter before he writes me a speeding ticket, I'm going to do it.

It will make the payout from the lawsuit so much sweeter.

I'm joking to an extent. But there's a misapprehension that goes on in some people's mind about how to interact with the police when you are the one receiving their executive attention and they are enforcing laws on you. You may wish to argue the facts, the law, or both. That is your right. The correct time and place to do that is not at the roadside. You argue facts and laws in the courtroom. Not on the side of Highway 211.

Tamhansen

Quote from: Regina Minx on March 19, 2019, 01:22:30 PM" If I'm told to strip naked and smear myself with peanut butter before he writes me a speeding ticket, I'm going to do it".

Hmm. You make a good argument for becoming a traffic cop.

No seriously though. I'm not adversarial with the police unless they're clearly wrong. And in the Netherlands I can do so. Because the police do not see debate as an attack on their position or masculinity.

Sometimes though it's not even adversarial, it's just being there. Look at the Willie Bo case. Six officers, 25 shots at a sleeping man. Or Emantic Bradford, shot in the back three times while down on the ground.
ons and offs

They left their home of summer ease
Beneath the lowland's sheltering trees,
To seek, by ways unknown to all,
The promise of the waterfall.