EU copyright Directive article 13

Started by SidheLady, May 30, 2018, 11:29:03 AM

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SidheLady

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Lustful Bride

Can anyone from the EU confirm or tell us if this is as bad as it sounds?

SidheLady

It's being kept very, very, very quiet.

Theres been nothing on the news, it's even hard to find info online
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Vekseid

"You should move your hosting to Europe, Veks!"

Exhibit thirteen. Thousand.

SidheLady

I say this, while it's in europe (now), as it seems to being pushed by corperate interests, if the damned thing passes, it's not gonna be long before it tries to make the leap across the pond.

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midnightblack

Quote from: Lustful Bride on May 31, 2018, 05:02:34 PM
Can anyone from the EU confirm or tell us if this is as bad as it sounds?

I've literally never heard of this before and if it wasn't for those links I would have been half-tempted to write it off as fake news, given that we're bombarded in every breathing moment with "inside info" on how the evil overlords from Brussels plan to enslave the world (courtesy of our friends in East >.> ). But admitting that it is accurate, I'm still not overly stressed about it. I don't see such attempts to regulate the Internet being applicable for the time being, try as they might.
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Vekseid

Quote from: SidheLady on June 01, 2018, 04:14:09 PM
I say this, while it's in europe (now), as it seems to being pushed by corperate interests, if the damned thing passes, it's not gonna be long before it tries to make the leap across the pond.

No media organization in the US is dumb enough to lobby for link taxes. "What do you mean Google, Facebook, Reddit, Youtube, and Twitter removed all of our links from their sites!?"

Even Rupert Murdoch backed down on this.

Mandatory filtering would need to be passed in a manner similar to the original CDA attempt. Which got knocked out 9-0. Meanwhile there are a lot more organizations, people, and businesses in the US with the desire to stop it.

I imagine the actual effect of this law will be to drive more western aggregators and social media to the US, and to force those companies to cater to English and American dialects over EU languages.

Sain

Snipped this from the Explain It Like I'm 5 subreddit. This should explain the new directive somewhat.

Quote from: The_cogwheelFirst off, linking what on earth you're talking about might help, searching on Google ment I had to wade through a 1000 think pieces before finding anything offical.

Second, from what I can tell, it removes the limited protection Hosting sites had for hosting copyrighted material.

So before if I was a hosting service, like squarespace, I would be somewhat protected if someone used my equipment to share copyrighted material. As long as I can prove that I had nothing to do with the site that did share it and I did not know such content was on my hardware I'm in the clear.

Under article 13, my hosting service no longer has that protection. Meaning a rightholder (the person who owns the copyright in question) can sue me even if I didn't know the content is on my hardware and was being shared. It effectively means a rightholder can police what is and isn't a copyright violation and allow them to get hosting platforms to remove content, rather than dealing with a potentially anonymous person. Think of YouTube DMCA takedowns but with more teeth and on every European server.

Which is kinda iffy depending on the rightholder and how willing they are to yell "copyright violation!" For instance, movie reviews are typically not a case of copyright violation, even if they use footage or screenshots, as the reviewer would likely need some copyrighted material to make the review, but won't likely be a replacement for the copyrighted material. As in a review of The Avengers: Infinity War is in no way a replacement for watching the movie itself.

So the fear is, if a movie studio (or any other company) wanted to censor negative press they could just claim a copyright infringement on 2 seconds of footage or a screenshot and have that negative press go away. In theory it seems like it's possible in the text of the law, but it has yet to be proven in court. And a law that isn't enforced is not a law. Well that and attempting to remove critism from the public eye tends to create an even bigger problem.
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SidheLady

I saw this video a few days ago. It seems to have co-elated most of the relevant data and some of the news stories

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwR34cT1grw
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Lustful Bride

Quote from: SidheLady on June 02, 2018, 05:41:02 PM
I saw this video a few days ago. It seems to have co-elated most of the relevant data and some of the news stories

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwR34cT1grw

Ive seen his video in multiple places, but many are saying he is some Alt Right guy and that the bill might be misreported.

I don't understand the legal speech but this is a snapshot from the bill itself.


gaggedLouise

Never heard of it before, but I found this article from the Financial Times; it's clearly about the same "reform package" and two years old, so it must have stalled once before within the EU's political machinery.

https://www.ft.com/content/7dec4252-7a85-11e6-ae24-f193b105145e

I think this piece from Politico covers some of the run-up to the defeat of an earlier similar proposal, where Google and Facebook were to be heavily fined for relaying news stories from the "old news media": https://www.politico.eu/article/plan-to-make-google-pay-for-news-hits-rocks-copyright-reform-european-commission/

Quote from: PoliticoEurope’s press barons thought they’d scored a major victory last fall when the European Commission threw its weight behind their idea to create a special protection for digital journalism, the linchpin of their strategy for long-term survival. But now the plan threatens to come undone.

Advocates of the reform say it would force the globe-spanning fat cats of the internet — platforms like Google, Facebook and LinkedIn, which use outside news content to attract eyeballs without paying a single cent — to compensate Europe’s publishers for use of their content. Much as radio stations pay fees to music publishers to play their songs, the companies would compensate news outlets for carrying their content.

If the reform goes through, the victory would reverberate around the world, with publishers in other regions likely to demand similar treatment. Less than six months after the Commission unveiled its proposal, however, the prospects for a so-called publisher’s right are murkier than ever amid growing doubts the plan can win enough support in the European Parliament.

The Commission (the "EU government") is evidently pushing for the package again after it stalled in 2016/17, but it doesn't look like a parliament vote is imminent. This page tracks the progress of the "directive" (EU bill, sort of) but alos hints that the Commission may be sitting it out to try to bring the proposal to the parliament after the next EUP elections next year, when the parliament might have become more amenable to such a "reform". https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f8f28466-b597-470b-a02f-6ca91a41907e

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SidheLady

Quote from: Lustful Bride on June 02, 2018, 10:12:18 PM
Ive seen his video in multiple places, but many are saying he is some Alt Right guy and that the bill might be misreported.

I don't understand the legal speech but this is a snapshot from the bill itself.



Honestly, if your worried about his political leanings, take a look at his sources. Use -those- as a basis. But the problem is, this isn't being talked about. Spain has just implemented something like this law, and google news in spain has closed.
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gaggedLouise

Quote from: SidheLady on June 03, 2018, 01:47:51 PM
Honestly, if your worried about his political leanings, take a look at his sources. Use -those- as a basis. But the problem is, this isn't being talked about. Spain has just implemented something like this law, and google news in spain has closed.

If they try to implement it across the EU there will certainly be appeals to try to block these sweeping new rules - both in national courts and in the EU high court at Strasbourg.

Also, moving this kind of EU directive into actual written law is essentially the business of national governments and they may not be very keen on laying the field open for this kind of chase for copyrighted material. We'll see.

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

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Mera1506

Quote from: Lustful Bride on May 31, 2018, 05:02:34 PM
Can anyone from the EU confirm or tell us if this is as bad as it sounds?

Yup, if this passes byebye fair use and hello censorship galore and link taxes on every link you want to post...

gaggedLouise

Quote from: Mera1506 on June 18, 2018, 04:31:53 PM
Yup, if this passes byebye fair use and hello censorship galore and link taxes on every link you want to post...


Seems there was a vote in the EU Parliament's Judicial Committee on this yesterday - this paragraph, not the entire bill - and it passed, though with lots of last-minute changes, compromise wordings and rewrites, making it a really complicated vote. The whole directive (bill) is set for a vote in the EUP sometime this autumn, unless the Commission decides to move it till after the 2019 elections. Either way, it's very uncertain how the vote in the parliament would turn out.

The idea doesn't seem to be to simply scrap all "unofficial" upload copies of video clips and the like, rather that sites like facebook and Youtube would need to pay a license to be free to host such stuff. Since many people who are showing this kind of thing on their blogs, or on sites like E, are simply hotlinking to Youtube, this wouldn't mean that you can't use a copyrighted YT video online anymore, but it's not a good law to propose anyway, of course. We'll see.

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

Shiva

The undisclosed purpose of this law is to combat 'right-wing' sites, 'alternative' news outlets, 'populism', and 'hate speech' comments and memes. They're not going to regulate everything, only that which doesn't align with EU left-wing ideology. It's quite obvious as someone who lives in the EU. They are so afraid of the 'Nazi' boogeyman.

gaggedLouise

Quote from: Shiva on June 20, 2018, 05:25:10 AM
The undisclosed purpose of this law is to combat 'right-wing' sites, 'alternative' news outlets, 'populism', and 'hate speech' comments and memes. They're not going to regulate everything, only that which doesn't align with EU left-wing ideology. It's quite obvious as someone who lives in the EU. They are so afraid of the 'Nazi' boogeyman.

I'm guessing that Youtube might lose most of its thousands of "Hitler rages when he hears of X"  spoof videos though :) (the original source being a German film, Der Untergang)

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

SidheLady

Quote from: Shiva on June 20, 2018, 05:25:10 AM
The undisclosed purpose of this law is to combat 'right-wing' sites, 'alternative' news outlets, 'populism', and 'hate speech' comments and memes. They're not going to regulate everything, only that which doesn't align with EU left-wing ideology. It's quite obvious as someone who lives in the EU. They are so afraid of the 'Nazi' boogeyman.

No, not regulate everything, just everything they dont like, that isn't illegal...
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TheGlyphstone

Is this quite obvious in the same sense that it's quite obvious to some people here in the states that the government is putting mind-altering chemicals into the drinking water supply to infect undesirable groups with homosexuality?

Quick Ben

Quote from: Shiva on June 20, 2018, 05:25:10 AM
The undisclosed purpose of this law is to combat 'right-wing' sites, 'alternative' news outlets, 'populism', and 'hate speech' comments and memes. They're not going to regulate everything, only that which doesn't align with EU left-wing ideology. It's quite obvious as someone who lives in the EU. They are so afraid of the 'Nazi' boogeyman.
Quote from: SidheLady on June 20, 2018, 12:11:42 PM
No, not regulate everything, just everything they dont like, that isn't illegal...

+ Over 9000 to the both of you.
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Shiva

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on June 20, 2018, 12:16:48 PM
Is this quite obvious in the same sense that it's quite obvious to some people here in the states that the government is putting mind-altering chemicals into the drinking water supply to infect undesirable groups with homosexuality?

No. It's not in that ballpark. That there is a conspiracy theory. We're talking about blatant censorship of certain ideologies deemed 'wrong' by the EU.

Scribbles

Is there anything that can be done to have an impact on this proposed bill, somewhere to email or call, beyond simply knowing about it?

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on June 20, 2018, 12:16:48 PM
Is this quite obvious in the same sense that it's quite obvious to some people here in the states that the government is putting mind-altering chemicals into the drinking water supply to infect undesirable groups with homosexuality?

Haha, that's crazy! Homosexuality is gradually becoming more accepted, so now the chemical turns you into a telemarketer...
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TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Shiva on June 21, 2018, 02:18:32 AM
No. It's not in that ballpark. That there is a conspiracy theory. We're talking about blatant censorship of certain ideologies deemed 'wrong' by the EU.

Acceptable, and I apologize for being derisive. But while I have no trouble believing the EU will suppress ideologies inimical to its interests, it's the belief that Directive 13 is a secretly malicious backdoor attempt at said suppression via ( presumably) only enforcing copyright claims or link taxes on 'undesirable' websites that sets off my conspiracy theory alarms.

Shiva

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on June 21, 2018, 10:03:39 AM
Acceptable, and I apologize for being derisive. But while I have no trouble believing the EU will suppress ideologies inimical to its interests, it's the belief that Directive 13 is a secretly malicious backdoor attempt at said suppression via ( presumably) only enforcing copyright claims or link taxes on 'undesirable' websites that sets off my conspiracy theory alarms.

This is how I and others perceive it in European countries: For a very long time, the EU and local politicians (especially in my country) have talked about the 'rise of populism' and 'alternative media', and how it is damaging to democracy. It's all very ironic considering populism is 'rule of the people', which should be embraced by a democracy. This censorship bill is the culmination of this discussion and search for a solution to the 'problem' of populism and alternative media. The fact that they despise the voice of the people and media that isn't filtered for political correctness leads people to believe that Article 13 has malicious intent with the disguise of copyright laws.

We are all very tired of this at this point. Us Europeans have lost all faith in this Orwellian over-state.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Shiva on June 21, 2018, 10:46:33 AM
This is how I and others perceive it in European countries: For a very long time, the EU and local politicians (especially in my country) have talked about the 'rise of populism' and 'alternative media', and how it is damaging to democracy. It's all very ironic considering populism is 'rule of the people', which should be embraced by a democracy. This censorship bill is the culmination of this discussion and search for a solution to the 'problem' of populism and alternative media. The fact that they despise the voice of the people and media that isn't filtered for political correctness leads people to believe that Article 13 has malicious intent with the disguise of copyright laws.

We are all very tired of this at this point. Us Europeans have lost all faith in this Orwellian over-state.

Okay, I can see that. It's the local context of political statements we don't see over here that give the credibility to your worries I didn't see.

The EU always did seem like a sort of ramshackle entity, trying to find a nebulous compromise between independent sovereignties and unification. Not trying go full MURICA, but it reminds me of the Articles of Confederation that the American colonies originally wrote. Ambitious, but riddled with so many undermining clauses as to lose any real scope of effectiveness - and at least the Continental Congress was still elected. From what others have said here, it sounds like the EU Parliament only serves to rubber-stamp decisions made by the un-elected bureaucratic wing.