Oh..those people at westboro baptist are at it again! o3o

[Wolfy]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101996-Church-Protesting-San-Diego-Comic-Con-For-Idol-Worship

Yep. So apparently their going to protest* at Comic-Con.

Apparently they think that people are worshiping people like Batman and Superman like Gods, and that's a big no no. (Well, it is a big no no in Christianity to worship other gods, but I think they're just crazy. >_>)

Oh Mighty Elliquiy..please, tell me your thoughts.

[GeekFury]

If the people worshiping super heros as 'gods' are'nt christians or religious in anyway then they don't have the right to protest to really, as the worship of false idols is only a sin if you believe in the ten commandments right?

If the worlds going to hell, I'd rather prey to Superman or Batman, I'd hold more hope of them coming to save the day than God, in his book he has'nt done anything since biblical times, atleast the super heros do alot more, hell Captian America PUNCHED Hitler, where was God when Hitler was about? Not punching him in the fucking face thats for sure!

Damn religious extremists, I don't care who you worship just don't go shoving it in my face and telling me how to live. Now if you will excuse me, it's time I sacrafice a cow to Odin, before I have my orgey in the name of Jupiter then my ritual combat to Ares. Busy day.

[Jude]

I wish they'd protest something near me, I desperately want to mess with them.

[Oniya]

I wish they'd protest something near me, I desperately want to mess with them.

Ditto.

I'm wondering what they'd do if someone cosplayed Thor in front of them.

[GeekFury]

I'm wondering what they'd do if someone cosplayed Thor in front of them.

Oh I would so do that, or dress a fucking druid, or run up to them dressed as Superman and go 'have no fear citizens I am here to rid you of your false god!' then get beaten to death by their signs I assume. This is why I like living in Scotland we don't have to many religious nutters.

[Inkidu]

Ironically before I gave up on the church part of religion I had a pastor and he and I would sit there and talk for hours about superheroes and the biblical allusions some of the earliest writers and artists liked to use. He was a neat guy.

[Oniya]

See, that's the kind of pastor I could get along with.

[Ket]

Playing devil's advocate here (no pun intended):

Per the article, the protesters will be there for a 45 minutes on one day. They have every right to stand outside and hold up their signs, just as everyone else has the right to enjoy the con or stand right along with them, so long as they don't violate laws.

I understand their messages are quite tactless and pretty much against the feelings of the rest of the country, but they are still allowed to shout them at the top of their lungs. The reason they have impact is because people pay attention to them. Ignore them and don't let their messages bother you, and they will go away.

[Jude]

Yeah, I agree completely, but I think I find them amusing more than anything.  I bet that pisses them off more than being ignored does.  They're basically IRL trolls.

[Hunter]

Oh Mighty Elliquiy..please, tell me your thoughts.

Why are you even bothering to give them any attention?  Did the thought occur that they might be doing it for the press?

[Oniya]

There's two forms of how WBC gets into the press - the 'Oh my goodness, what terrible people! Counterprotest! Rawr!', which leads to them being able to say how put-upon they are.  Then there's what's likely to happen at Comic-con.  They will be subjected to everything from the aforementioned super-hero cosplayers, to people speaking Klingon or Quenya fluently (because they can - I know some of these people), maybe the occasional fan-fic/fan-art creator...

It'll be like dropping them in Babylon Five.

[Wolfy]

...*gasp*

I've just had quite possible the best. idea. ever.

Anthropomorphize the Westboro Baptists, and then draw them in Yaoi Fanart.

o-o Or just draw their members in Yaoi Fanart.

[Lord Drake]

Why are you even bothering to give them any attention?  Did the thought occur that they might be doing it for the press?

+ 376.895.239

[HairyHeretic]

You could always wander by and tell them Thor probably thinks they're a crowd of idiots.

He hasn't said as much to me, but I'm pretty sure that'd be his opinion of them.

[MasterMischief]

So...can I get a group of my friends and protest their 'false' god across the street from their church for 45 minutes or would that constitute crucifying the Christians again?

[Lilias]

Believe it or not, there are many more Christians than you think who would consider WBC a bunch of complete and utter nutjobs. But we're mostly on the other side of the pond.

In Greece, they would get arrested, but then we have no First Amendment there.

[Inkidu]

Believe it or not, there are many more Christians than you think who would consider WBC a bunch of complete and utter nutjobs. But we're mostly on the other side of the pond.

In Greece, they would get arrested, but then we have no First Amendment there.

+1 to the first part.

[Wolfy]

Well yes, Westboro Baptist is so bad that the KKK, the racist nutjobs, Disavow any association with them. O-o

I just find it funny how they're protesting Comic-Con.

Though...45 minutes? Why even bother? o3o

[Oniya]

Believe it or not, there are many more Christians than you think who would consider WBC a bunch of complete and utter nutjobs. But we're mostly on the other side of the pond.

I'd actually say that 98% of Christians world-wide think that WBC are complete and utter nutjobs.

[Lord Drake]

I'd actually say that 98% of Christians world-wide think that WBC are complete and utter nutjobs.

+1

[Avi]

Believe it or not, there are many more Christians than you think who would consider WBC a bunch of complete and utter nutjobs. But we're mostly on the other side of the pond.

There are plenty of reasonable Christians here in the U.S. as well, myself being one of them.  The sad thing is that the most vocal minority is the one being heard the most.  Besides, a thoughtful discussion about differences in opinion doesn't make the media, it's boring and uninteresting to the average person.  But a screaming horde of idiots spouting hatred does make the news because it's so out of the ordinary for many people.

Edit:  Oniya's right as well.  The WBC does not speak for the Christian Church.

[Noelle]

Though...45 minutes? Why even bother? o3o

Because with the press they get before they even show up, they hardly need to go at all to get the attention they crave.

[MasterMischief]

Now if only we could get Jack Chick to immortalize this in print...

[Wolfy]

Hmm...You know what I'd like?..I'd actually like the Pope to say something about them. o-o I know that will never happen, but I would love to see it.

[Serephino]

You never know, if they keep this shit up the Pope might make a statement, especially if they start hurting the church.  I know they're extremist attention whores, and not real Christians, but as it's also been mentioned, it's the attention whores people see the most.  And yes, that would be hilarious if the very figurehead of their own religion publicly declared them nutjobs.  I'd pay to watch them listen to that. 

I really can't say I'm surprised.  Every time they stop getting attention for one thing they have to top themselves to get the spotlight back on themselves.  It's actually kind of sad.  As soon as this is over they'll do something else equally stupid. 

Something I think would be a fun thing to do is attend one of their protests wearing every piece of pentacle jewelry I own and sit and watch them with a bag of popcorn while occasionally pointing and laughing hysterically.  It might not sound like much, but you can't legally attack them.  I'd rather shoot at them with a pellet gun to watch them dance, but that would get me arrested.  And you can't argue with them because that's what they want.  They want an excuse to get that smug little smirk on their faces while they yell at you about how wrong you are and going to hell for it.  They also want to make you angry.  So I would simply treat them like the freakshow they are; only good for entertainment.  Nothing illegal about laughing at a bunch of idiots.     

[MasterMischief]

Hmm...You know what I'd like?..I'd actually like the Pope to say something about them. o-o I know that will never happen, but I would love to see it.

Even if he did, it would have to be something of little substance.  So it would likely be more of a disappointment.

Something along the lines of...

"The papacy is not always in agreement with the methods of this organization."

[Ket]

You have to remember the Pope is not the head of all of Christianity. He is only the head of the Roman Catholic Church.

Baptists, in whichever form they are, don't fall into that category.

[Paladin]

I'd actually say that 98% of Christians world-wide think that WBC are complete and utter nutjobs.

I'm one of them. They give other christains bad names. I think the rest of us should protest them.

[Wolfy]

Hmm....I'm still saying if the owner of their church looses it and the land, I'm going to buy it and turn it into a strip club or something..maybe a Gay Strip Club, just to spite them. *shrugs*

Anyway...They already lost one court case against them...I can't remember what it was about, though.

[RubySlippers]

Sadly the First Amendment offers them alot of leeway for saying their Christian message such as it is to the world. There is no right of a party not to be offended from speech they can generally be as hateful as they want they have that right just like the White Nationalists. Black Panther Militia and other extreme groups. Crossing a line to something more is a high bar and they seem to not be near that bar yet.

As a member of the clergy I find there theology seriously flawed I never recall Jesus even to enemies acting like that to people even if he considered them sinners.

[Braioch]

You never know, if they keep this shit up the Pope might make a statement, especially if they start hurting the church.  I know they're extremist attention whores, and not real Christians, but as it's also been mentioned, it's the attention whores people see the most.  And yes, that would be hilarious if the very figurehead of their own religion publicly declared them nutjobs.  I'd pay to watch them listen to that. 

I really can't say I'm surprised.  Every time they stop getting attention for one thing they have to top themselves to get the spotlight back on themselves.  It's actually kind of sad.  As soon as this is over they'll do something else equally stupid. 

Something I think would be a fun thing to do is attend one of their protests wearing every piece of pentacle jewelry I own and sit and watch them with a bag of popcorn while occasionally pointing and laughing hysterically.  It might not sound like much, but you can't legally attack them.  I'd rather shoot at them with a pellet gun to watch them dance, but that would get me arrested.  And you can't argue with them because that's what they want.  They want an excuse to get that smug little smirk on their faces while they yell at you about how wrong you are and going to hell for it.  They also want to make you angry.  So I would simply treat them like the freakshow they are; only good for entertainment.  Nothing illegal about laughing at a bunch of idiots.     

I've done this, and nothing riles them up more, which of course just gives you more reason to laugh >.>

[Jude]

The Pope is not the figurehead of the Westboro Baptist Church.

EDIT:  Ket already said it.

As I understand, they're basically one family; I bet they'll be gone in 20 years, or 100 at the most.

[Brandon]

*raises his hand* Im yet another christian that thinks the WBC is a bunch of nutjobs.

Ive said before that I wish many christians were more like Christ but these people seem to have lost their way so badly that I think only Jesus or God themselves could bring them back to the land of sanity

[consortium11]

Michael Moore and Australian comedy group The Chaser both did humorous counter protests/just screwing with them events previously.

Michael Moore vs Westboro Baptist Church

Flirting with a Westboro Church man

Unfortunately nothing will ever stop them until their natural deaths. Phelps is a sick, twisted bitter old man... who has one hell of a shady past (just check out his wikipedia page for a good overview) and a true zealot... and he also has (often misused) sources to back up what he says. I've listened/seen a few debates he's been involved with and his bible knowledge (at least on this topic) is incredible. What that gives him is a framework and a base to cling to that means he'll never be convinced of the fault in his arguments. Hopefully when he passes he family fades away and no more children are indoctrinated.

Others have brought up how the Pope doesn't hold any ecclesiastical sway over them. It's worse than that. Let's see another well balanced quote they offer:

"There are over 1 billion Catholics in the world—that's one out of every six people alive today—and every single one of them will split Hell wide open when they die—period. And there is nothing they can do about it.

[MsCuddly]

I seriously despise the Westboro Baptist Church, especially considering one of my closest friends is gay. They also once knocked on one of my very liberal uncles and he slammed the door in their face, calling them idiotic intolerant bigots in the process.

Needless to say, he's probably my favorite uncle.

[Acinonyx]

Comic Con Wins!

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/upload/2010/07/comic-con_reacts_to_fred_phelp/wbc_comiccon1.php

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/upload/2010/07/comic-con_reacts_to_fred_phelp/wbc_comiccon2.php

[Wolfy]

That...that is the best thing..EVER. o3o

[Wolfy]

Apparently Rick Astley is God!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4312683209_7c9b93b2d6.jpg

[Aiden]

the article and more pictures of westboro getting owned

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/22/super-heroes-vs-the-westboro-baptist-church/

[Serephino]

That is just too funny. 

[OldSchoolGamer]

I'd actually say that 98% of Christians world-wide think that WBC are complete and utter nutjobs.

You forgot "attention whores."  That, too.   :D

[Arhys]

the article and more pictures of westboro getting owned

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/22/super-heroes-vs-the-westboro-baptist-church/

Hahaha, yes I love it. :)  Came here to post *just* that too, but you beat me to it. :)  Freaking hilarious...

[Josh the Aspie]

Comic Con Wins!

Personally, I think Comicon and Fred Felps both loose over this.

[Wolfy]

Personally, I think Comicon and Fred Felps both loose over this.

Why do you say that?...

[Callie Del Noire]

ALL HAIL HYPNOTOAD!

[Will]

Personally, I think Comicon and Fred Felps both loose over this.

I'd be interested in why, as well.  Protest a convention, and you deserve what you get. ::)

I think it's usually better to pretend they aren't there, like when they protest the soldiers' funerals and such.  If you sink to their level, then you're giving up your dignity and self-respect (and disrespecting the deceased to boot).  But dignity and self-respect have no place at a comic con! XD

[Wolfy]

I feel like protesting their church services with Signs relating to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, blessed be those that are touched by his noodely appendage.

Buuuut..that's just me. o3o

[Oniya]

I don't think they actually have church services.  I think they spend all their time running around trying to 'pluck specks from other people's eyes, when they cannot see past the beam that is in their own.'

And they probably wouldn't recognize where that reference came from.

[Josh the Aspie]

Well for one thing, I for one would not go to that convention now if I ever would have gone before based on the nature of that protest.

Counter-protests draw more attention to the original protest, and in general are done in a way that is just as rude and self-degrading as the protest they are protesting, if not more so.  I saw very little to respect in that counter-protest, and much that deserved disrespect... as was the case with most counter-protests I've seen.

[Will]

*shrugs* I think there's a time and a place for it, and that was it.

[Trieste]

Well for one thing, I for one would not go to that convention now if I ever would have gone before based on the nature of that protest.

Counter-protests draw more attention to the original protest, and in general are done in a way that is just as rude and self-degrading as the protest they are protesting, if not more so.  I saw very little to respect in that counter-protest, and much that deserved disrespect... as was the case with most counter-protests I've seen.

I disagree. I think the counter-protest was done with humor and wit. Writing "God hates fags" on a placard makes no more sense than writing "God hates Jedi" on one, and protesting a convention full of a subgroup notorious for its low belief in God accusing them of false idol worship is nothing short of arrogant and divisive.

When you preach only hate and death, you certainly don't deserve grace in return, but they got it anyway. That said, I wish the press would stop covering the WBC. I don't think they will, but I wish they would.

[Oniya]

There's also the fact that fandom generally considers very little to be self-degrading.  This, coming from someone who used to race across campus with her Dr. Who scarf flapping behind her.

As for drawing more attention to the original protest:  If you're walking down the street and see a conservatively dressed, middle-aged person carrying a 'God hates fags' sign, and on the opposite side of the street you see a guy dressed like a robot carrying a 'Kill all humans' sign, which one draws your attention more? 

[Arhys]

Agreed.  Counter protests and much of counter culture are derived from self-mockery and satire to make their point.  The street theater protests are incredibly creative and work at a level people feel, not think about.  Billionaires for Bush is a prime example of that, watching crowd reactions to them walking down the street was just amazing. 

[Noelle]

I think it's a creative way to use humor to draw the heat off the situation; where some people may become upset by such inflammatory signs (which, by the way, they're kind of losing their 'shock-factor' since everyone has seen them by now and they really haven't changed their slogan), people use satire to play down the message and expose just how ridiculous it is.

[Josh the Aspie]

And that is entirely your opinion, and you may consider them to have 'won'.  You may be cheering them on.

There are other people who have been pushed away by their actions, and are likely to avoid the con in the future.

That's why I feel both sides lost, just as I feel that in modern war both sides usually loose.

I was simply expressing my opinion over this particular matter.

[Trieste]

And that is entirely your opinion, and you may consider them to have 'won'.  You may be cheering them on.

There are other people who have been pushed away by their actions, and are likely to avoid the con in the future.

That's why I feel both sides lost, just as I feel that in modern war both sides usually loose.

I was simply expressing my opinion over this particular matter.

I was expressing mine in kind.

I don't understand the logic behind punishing the con for the actions of its goers, however. It's my understanding that this was not actually organized by the con itself.

Whatever the case, the fact that the WBC has moved to protesting at ComiCon indicates that they are nothing more than attention whores at this point, which is why I said that I wish the news would stop covering them.

[Valerian]

Whatever the case, the fact that the WBC has moved to protesting at ComiCon indicates that they are nothing more than attention whores at this point, which is why I said that I wish the news would stop covering them.

Yes, this.

I can almost, sort of, understand (though not agree with, I hasten to add) them wanting to protest against such things as same-sex marriage.  On some level, many of them probably do feel genuinely threatened by the idea, strange as that may sound.

However, since I haven't heard of any comic fans agitating to start a Church of Odin, or fighting for the rights of humans to marry elves, the fact that they showed up at a comic convention just reeks of opportunism and publicity-seeking.  Next thing you know, they'll blow the dust off the old D&D = satanism cliche and protest at Gen-Con.... and doubtless get much the same reaction.

I'm not sure if the majority of the counter-protesters were especially concerned with who was "winning" or "losing".  Had I been there with my gaming buddies, we would likely have been counter-protesting ourselves... and we're none of us all that concerned with protests or politics.  Geeks, by and large, are one of the most live and let live groups I know of, which is one reason I like being one.  :)

[Paladin]

If they protest at Gencon, they will be in for a world of trouble. Indiana dosen't mess around. I know that I will tell them what real christains think of them. I'm pretty sure othr convention goers will do much worse. Rotten tomatoes anyone? Fights have started at Gencon over less issues.

[HairyHeretic]

Rotten tomatos could constitute assault, and I believe one of the ways they fund themselves is by suing people who do that sort of thing. I believe at least a couple of them are lawyers.

[The Golden Touch]

The wife of the head guy is a lawyer...  They also can have anyone that assaults them arrested, which is why they often have police escorts around to keep people from attacking them.

[Wolfy]

Yes..but if a mass of people do it all at once...how can they police that? O-o..There won't be one specific person to point the finger at, after all...and I don't think they could sue Gencon....maybe. *shrugs*

[Will]

Then the police will do the best they can, which will still be pretty damn good. :P

[Noelle]

Assaulting them in any way, shape, or form is kind of a dumb idea. They don't pose a threat to anyone, they're just a bunch of inbred loudmouths with nothing better to do than attention whore. You might as well just save yourself the judicial headache and hand over your donation to WBC directly without the violence, because that's more or less what a lawsuit against them is like.

Besides, assaulting someone doesn't really make them or their ideas go away.

[Paladin]

well Gencon Goers are pretty weird. I should know. I'm one of them. Besides Gencon's so loud I don't think we'd even hear them in the first place. I oubt they will come around here though. Theres a a few Churches I know of that would launcha  counter protest.

[Oniya]

I think following Comicon's example - maybe setting up a contest for the best counter-protest sign? - would be safer all around.  No assault charges, and trying to out-showboat con-goers is like mudwrestling with a pig.  Everyone looks silly, but the con-goers don't mind.

[Bayushi]

I think following Comicon's example - maybe setting up a contest for the best counter-protest sign?

A couple people already won the best counter protest sign(s).

[Ironwolf85]

where are the westboro baptists? is that westboro england?
as a good christian soul I'd have to inform them they're violating their own faith, and giving our shared faith a bad image.
and when they beat me down... due to the number of geeks at Gen-Con, someone will record the incident, and put it on youtube.
I'm sure I could get my hospital bills paid for if I ask for donations on the site... and get my face on TV.
it's possible I could launch a political carrear on such an action if I played it right.

[Silk]

Topeka in Kansas I believe.

[Ironwolf85]

really? kansas?
I could make an ignorant remark about southerners...
but it kinda saddens me and pisses me off that such groups exist.
oh well

[Will]

really? kansas?
I could make an ignorant remark about southerners...
but it kinda saddens me and pisses me off that such groups exist.
oh well

Your discretion is admirable. :P

[Ironwolf85]

I hate extremeist groups of all kinds, they give their faiths and cultures a bad name, from fanatics, to extreme nationalists, And much much worse.
they are an annoyance to me, and drag down the human race as a whole

[Oniya]

As I think I said earlier in this thread, these people are the type that make everyone that could loosely be associated with them (normal Baptists, Christians in general, Kansans, Southerners in general, Americans in general) wish that they would just shut up and go away instead of making the rest of us look bad.

[Will]

I don't think they make anybody look bad.  It would take a special kind of stupid to lump Christians, Kansans, or southerners (even though Kansas is nowhere close to being southern, so I don't know where that came from) in with such obvious lunatics.

[Ironwolf85]

yep but that's how the media will portray it
I think I'm done, I've done my part

[HairyHeretic]

Guilt by association is one of the less admirable parts of human nature. Even those who know that you cannot judge an entire group by the actions of a few can still be somewhat influenced. For someone who doesn't like a particular group to start with, the actions of the loony fringe are immediately applied to the group as a whole, with strident cries of "Look! Look what they're all like!"

[MasterMischief]

You heard it straight from Jesus' lips.  “Fred has issues.”

I just wonder which issues.  Obviously not The Mighty Thor #5

That's why I feel both sides lost, just as I feel that in modern war both sides usually loose.

I agree that all involved loose in the case of war and I believe I can understand your point, however, I disagree.

If you are up to it, this kind of hits on why I disagree.  It is lengthy, so I would not blame you for giving it a pass.

”...humor and self-righteousness are mutually exclusive.”

This is something I have felt for some time, but never put into words.  If you take yourself seriously, where is the room for humility?  Without humility, where is the room for admitting error?  Without allowing room for admitting error, where is the opportunity for growth?

As humans, we make mistakes.

I believe humor is an excellent way to demonstrate the absurdity of the human condition, which, I also believe religion to very much be a part of.

[Synecdoche17]

and when they beat me down... due to the number of geeks at Gen-Con, someone will record the incident, and put it on youtube.
I'm sure I could get my hospital bills paid for if I ask for donations on the site... and get my face on TV.
it's possible I could launch a political carrear on such an action if I played it right.

Possibly the most ludicrous fantasy I've seen yet on Elliquiy.  :P Were the members of the WBC idiots, they would have been shut down long ago. They do not respond to insults with violence.

[Ironwolf85]

Possibly the most ludicrous fantasy I've seen yet on Elliquiy.  :P Were the members of the WBC idiots, they would have been shut down long ago. They do not respond to insults with violence.

I know, was toying with the idea, but in reality it would end with a lot of shouting, and both parties going their seperate ways.
and if that is the most ludicrous fantasy you've seen on Elliquiy... then you haven't seen the Extreme boards yet XD

[Noelle]

Now seeking: Dominant male/female to play either Fred or Shirley Phelps for hot gay-on-WBC play.

[Kip]

Now seeking: Dominant male/female to play either Fred or Shirley Phelps for hot gay-on-WBC play.

Sold!

*goes off to write plot points for Noelle*

>:)

[Will]

Now seeking: Dominant male/female to play either Fred or Shirley Phelps for hot gay-on-WBC play.

Oh man, hahaha.  That is hilarious, and tempting as well.