Kavanaugh, the Supreme Court nomination, and Kavanaugh & Ford's testimonies

[TheGlyphstone]

Does Trump even realize he lies at this point? Or has he become so detached from reality that he can say one thing while literally doing the exact opposite of what he is saying?

[CrownedSun]

I hear you. If anything, what this has laid bare, and I appreciate it, is that the Supreme Court is no less a partisan institution than any of the other branches of government.

Also, to be fair, Gorsuch pulled through, and pulled a few red state Dem votes. Merrick Garland couldn't even get a fucking meeting.

It's weird in a lot of ways.

Our government was designed to operate at odds with each other, to hold each branch in check, to prevent... well, exactly this kind of stuff from happening..

The party system, however, has completely co-opted that.

Our Representatives are not loyal to the country, or even the people they're supposed to represent.
They're loyal to their party, and to their backers, instead.

Such that you end up in situations where separate branches of government cooperate with each other to push party goals. Where you end up with congressional leaders saying that they don't see the point in investigating 'other republicans'. Where matters of suitability to serve in a government position are secondary compared to the fulfillment of the parties design. All of this is even more scary when you consider that "the Republicans" and "the Democrats" are-- despite generally portraying themselves as part of government-- entirely separate from such.

If the Republicans are willing to push their own party ahead of the government as a whole THIS FAR, what's to stop them from taking this even further?

Something I've been thinking about lately, especially since they will very soon have control over the entirety of government, all three branches...

...I mean, I don't think this would happen, but what would actually PREVENT them from suspending elections in November if they decided they would lose Congress? The only checks on them are self-imposed.

[gaggedLouise]

Police arrested young Kavanaugh in 1985 for starting a drunken fight in a bar ;) 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/01/politics/nyt-police-kavanaugh-bar-fight/index.html

The troubling aspect about this is that at the hearings last week, Kavanaugh had worked hard to present an image of himself in his teens and at college as a well-shaved, clean-living, sober young man, and now this comes flying in. :) And being truthful in such a hearing is obviously part of the deal.

[blue bunny sparkle]

Kavanaugh's college roommate at Yale says Kavanaugh lied under oath, but that the FBI has not questioned him.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/yale-roommate-says-kavanaugh-lied-under-oath-about-drinking-and-yearbook/ar-BBNTFTg

[Deamonbane]

Isn't that grounds for dismissal on its own?

[TheGlyphstone]

Isn't that grounds for dismissal on its own?

Only if it's proven, but the FBI isn't going to be given permission to interview/question that roommate, so proving it won't be possible. The whole thing is a circus.

[Oniya]

If someone has evidence, they aren't obligated to wait for the FBI to come knocking. 

[TheGlyphstone]

Either wat, It's too late. The investigation is over and the report is in.

[Mithlomwen]

The FBI didn't even interview Christine Blasey Ford....who is one of the main people involved in all of this. Then there's apparently this other thing going on.  Christine is refusing to turn over her therapy notes until FBI interviews her.

[CrownedSun]

There was never going to be an investigation.

That's why Trump agreed to it so quickly.

I do find it "interesting" just how little anyone cares about the multiple people who can come forward and credibly claim that Kavanaugh committed perjury, under oath, about matters directly related to sex. Including, in this case, a reference in his yearbook to the very sex act that he was accused of attempting to force Dr. Ford to perform with him and Mark Judge. Just... that seems very very ontopic. Even more so than all of the other lies that he very very demonstratably gave before congress.

It just shows how very very little anyone cared about the actual allegations.

Democrats included.

[Callie Del Noire]

As disturbed as I am by the charges from Dr. Ford, I am way more concerned by his actions on the bench and his belief in what is basically Executive immunity to the rule of law. A neutral judge should be more about the balance of the three branches

[QuackKing]

The allegations themselves don't seem to command much gravity when it took Ford more than three decades to reveal them. I'm not necessarily saying that Ford is lying, but I'm more than skeptical about her testimony.

This entire fiasco seems too caught up with hearsay from varying sources, and that's besides the fact that this is not a criminal trial against Kavanaugh but a hearing for his nomination. I think that alone makes it evident that there is a limit to how much these allegations are to be followed.

[TheGlyphstone]

The allegations themselves don't seem to command much gravity when it took Ford more than three decades to reveal them. I'm not necessarily saying that Ford is lying, but I'm more than skeptical about her testimony.

This entire fiasco seems too caught up with hearsay from varying sources, and that's besides the fact that this is not a criminal trial against Kavanaugh but a hearing for his nomination. I think that alone makes it evident that there is a limit to how much these allegations are to be followed.

70 percent of sex assaults go unreported. That doesnt mean they didnt happen, only that the victim wasnt comfortable or didnt feel safe telling anyone. Ford didnt wait 30 years to tell people out of some sort of malice, she likely would never have told anyone if Kavanaugh hadnt been nominated. Letting her alleged attempted rapist go unpunished was one thing, letting that same person sit on the Supreme Court is another.

[Avis habilis]

Funny how nobody has a problem with waiting 30 years to disclose having been molested by a priest. It's almost as if the punishment meted out to victims of sexual assault for reporting is more than enough to keep them silent for decades, or until extreme circumstances arise. Like, say, a guy who doesn't believe women should have a choice in who gets to do what to their genitals wants a lifetime appointment to the body that'll be regulating their reproductive rights.

[QuackKing]

I mean it's quite the coincidence that she would bring something up that happened in high school just as her accuser was about to be nominated for the Supreme Court. Regardless of her intent, it still bears the stench of partisan politics due to its timing, and without concrete evidence about the matter there is no way to presume whether or not Kavanaugh actually committed a sexual assault. Her testimony serves primarily as a tool to disrupt the Kavanaugh nomination.

[Avis habilis]

I mean it's quite the coincidence that she would bring something up that happened in high school just as her accuser was about to be nominated for the Supreme Court.

Yeah, I can't imagine why you would want to bring up the fact that a guy about to be appointed for life to the Supreme Court was a would-be rapist. Guess it'll have to remain a mystery to all of us.

[QuackKing]

Well I mean if you wanted to stop someone being appointed to the Supreme Court I'm sure accusing them of sexual assault might work, or at least turn some heads.

[CrownedSun]

There's one person who told her story, out and out, even admitted to the places where she doesn't remember things or where the circumstances aren't perfect.

On the other hand, we have the guy who lied over and over again, under oath. Who couldn't maintain anything close to his composure. Who blamed the entire thing on a left-wing conspiracy theory, while out and out lying about directly relevant details. I mean, I'm sorry, you can't say that a Devil's Triangle is a drinking game,-- especially when your roommate comes forward and says that no, that is not what that mean, and he knows full well that you didn't think it meant that either--

Especially when you're being accused of trying to coerce a woman into a devil's triangle.

If it's she said, he said, and one of the parties is a habitual liar...

[QuackKing]

Please don't act as if Ford is automatically a more reliable source. Note that she also could not maintain her composure during her testimony, refused to turn over her therapy notes, vacillated in how much of her story she remembered, and says she has a fear of flying when she frequently flies for vacations. She also said under oath that she had not talked to anyone regarding how to take a polygraph but was contradicted by an ex-boyfriend who said she coached her friend on how to take polygraphs.

If it's he-said, she-said, don't be duplicitous in your scrutiny of their credibility.

[Deamonbane]

And yet the fact that the president ordered the FBI investigation into rape allegations against a nominee for a lifetime position in the Supreme Court being limited by the president and by the senate is completely apolitical, I'm sure.

Nobody is assuming anybody is right. We do want to make sure that we're not putting a rapist into the Supreme Court, though.

[Blythe]

Whether or not someone believes Ford (though personally, I do believe Ford), it is incredibly pertinent and important that Kavanaugh lied under oath.

Is that someone we want on the Supreme Court? A liar?

I, personally, would say no.

[TheGlyphstone]

Quack, your first post says you arent saying Ford is lying, but every single one of your followups calls her truthfulness, honesty, motives, or character into question. You accuse us of automatically believing Ford, but you dont appear to be even entertaining the possibility she is telling the truth, or even that she is telling the truth as she knows it but is simply mistaken. It seems disengenous.

[Kristen]

Love this guy. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCi7hlXOM10

:D

- Kristen -

[QuackKing]

Understand that I can't make any solid judgements on the truth behind Ford's statements without any real evidence of the situation. Also keep in mind that the burden of proof typically rests on the accuser and, if this were a criminal case, Kavanaugh would be considered innocent until proven guilty. Ford's allegations are very serious and it does not do us any good to believe them without scrutiny.

Regardless, the Supreme Court is a deeply flawed part of the U.S. government that needs heavy reform.

[TheGlyphstone]

That last I will agree with completely. Its embarrassing how the Court has become another political football to be traded.