Fox News stirs up the anger of Canadians (Who knew we had that emotion?)

[Marlow]

So, I highly doubt any of the yanks have heard about this, but a certain fox news program named the "Red Eye" has caused quite the outrage across my country (Canada), especially in Southern Ontario.

The news program made such slanderous and insulting remarks in reference to Canada's wish to 'take a break' from Afghanistan and get out of their as soon as possible.

Some of the things said were, "I didn't even know they were in the war", "I thought that's where you go if you don't want to fight", and the host suggested Canada would use the time out to "do some yoga, paint some landscapes and run on the beach."

"Isn't this the perfect time to invade this ridiculous country," Gutfeld continued. "They have no army."

They also suggested that Canada was taking advantage of the power of the neighbor to the south, being, of course, the United States.

In addition they also made fun of the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police), making fun of their dress uniform and horses. 

Now I don't know about you. But I don't appreciate this at all. Make fun of our maple syrup, igloos, and crazy canucker accents all you want, but do not make light our sacrifices we made for your war on terror.

So... thoughts on the matter? Has anyone south of the Great White Expanse heard anything about this?

[HairyHeretic]

Its Fox Propaganda .. what else do you expect?

[Marlow]

Its Fox Propaganda .. what else do you expect?

Oh I know, I know. Fox is a horrid network. My point stands Canada is right pissed off.

[Avi]

As you should be.  Suggesting that Canada deserves to be invaded just because they want out of a conflict that's killed tens of thousands of people is bone-headed, arrogant, and (sadly) quite typical of Fixed Noise Channel.

All too often, people these days forget that the Canadians fought, and fought BRAVELY, in World War II, and that they still have a respectable, if small, military.  You lot deserve a chance to take a break.  Fox News does not speak for all of us.

[Marlow]

As you should be.  Suggesting that Canada deserves to be invaded just because they want out of a conflict that's killed tens of thousands of people is bone-headed, arrogant, and (sadly) quite typical of Fixed Noise Channel.

All too often, people these days forget that the Canadians fought, and fought BRAVELY, in World War II, and that they still have a respectable, if small, military.  You lot deserve a chance to take a break.  Fox News does not speak for all of us.

Canada has lost 107 (I believe) men and women, since we aren't there in a military combat facet.

And most definitely yes to your second point. When Canada fights we fight. I mean tooth and nail, until we physically can't. This is especially evident in WWI, Vimy Ridge coming to mind. Hell, the British and French tried to take the Ridge for a full month before the Canadians went it and captured it in the span of a weekend.

I don't know if this is a pro, but we were called Storm Troopers by the British, using us when everyone else failed. I wonder how accurate we were. :P

Yes, I like talking about anything pro-Canada. I'm quite proud of my country.

[Oniya]

If I remember right, it was Canadians who were trying to hold the line at Dunkirk - okay, so the Allies lost that one, but surviving it says quite a bit.

(I'm also oddly impressed that it took you all this long to get ticked off at Fox News.   ;D)

[Marlow]

If I remember right, it was Canadians who were trying to hold the line at Dunkirk - okay, so the Allies lost that one, but surviving it says quite a bit.

We were part of the Battle, under the command of the British, I believe.

(I'm also oddly impressed that it took you all this long to get ticked off at Fox News.   ;D)

Oh I had a strong distaste for Fox News ever since I was old enough to formulate a more than rudimentary opinion on the world, lol. I was raised in a very liberal household.

And for Canadians on whole, it takes a seriously low blow to anger us. :P

[Marlow]

Not being able to find the damn edit button, I have to double post. Here's the link to the segment: How to lose friends and alienate countries

[Trieste]

*sets a video down to cheer up Marlow*

[Oniya]

Yeah, we should remind Gutfield that the Canadians are the reason that the White House is white.



It's from the paint they had to use to cover all the damage from when you all torched it!   ;D

[Zeitgeist]

Its Fox Propaganda .. what else do you expect?

Every media outlet is rife with propaganda. After the who, when and where, it's all open to conjecture.

I don't like to see Canada's contribution derided either, but lets keep in context that the Red Eye show is comedic commentary, not unlike the John Stewart show or others like it.

But really, be it Fox News or another channel, there isn't one out there that can claim a grain of rice worth of unbiased reporting. Not a one.

[Avi]

Every media outlet is rife with propaganda. After the who, when and where, it's all open to conjecture.

I don't like to see Canada's contribution derided either, but lets keep in context that the Red Eye show is comedic commentary, not unlike the John Stewart show or others like it.

But really, be it Fox News or another channel, there isn't one out there that can claim a grain of rice worth of unbiased reporting. Not a one.

This is true, but Fox News has the un-savory tendency of refusing to apologize when it gets things wrong.  I've never once heard of them issuing a retracton, while MSNBC, CNN, and the other networks will all do so. 

If I remember right, it was Canadians who were trying to hold the line at Dunkirk - okay, so the Allies lost that one, but surviving it says quite a bit.

Yeah, frankly, holding the line at Dunkirk with the German war machine down on you... that took cajones the size of Texas to do that.  Kudoes to the Maple Leafs for helping to hold 'em off.  On another note, a Canadian detachment took one of the beaches on D-Day.  I can't remember which one it was... Juno, I think.  Anyway, I'll be the first to come to the defense of Canadians when people suggest that they can't fight like wolverines. O_O

[Marlow]

On another note, a Canadian detachment took one of the beaches on D-Day.  I can't remember which one it was... Juno, I think.

You would be correct, good sir. We actually gained the most ground during Operation Overlord.

Anyway, I'll be the first to come to the defense of Canadians when people suggest that they can't fight like wolverines. O_O

[Destiny Ascension]

*Sigh*

This..is why giving retarded shit-heads with zero intellect and fewer sets of balls a TV show will fail.

Anyone who is critical of a soldier or armed forces in combat should have what little of his fucking nuts exist CUT off, and I bet that moron hasn't ever even heard a gunshot let alone been in combat.

To clue supporters in, Canada has managed NOT to piss off the entire world like America has(Not to say I'm not proud, but I'm proud of most of our armed forces but our country is in a pissy state), thus we can conclude they do not need to funnel billions of dollars into Military spending because...well...who the fuck is going to attack Canada? Everyone likes Canada, and yet here is Canada, stepping up in Afghanistan where we, even IF we got another dozen countries to commit forces, won't be winning before a lot of people get killed. Sending troops to get killed, and after 7 years of almost NO results, I can fully understand why they need a break. Its not helped that American companies butt-fucked the world financian and economic state into the lowest its been sine the 1930's, and the fact we still can't figure out words will do shit against people who only like violence(Obviously, I'm speaking about Militants and terrorist organizations, I'm sure the average Afghani and Iraqi would be very pleased if a few words could get their lives back in order).

Dumbasses on Fox News....is anyone REALLY surprised?

[Zeitgeist]

Lumping together the Red Eye program with Fox News, would be like lumping together Nancy Grace with Headline News. Worse yet, because the Red Eye program doesn't even bill itself as a news program, its 'entertainment'.

Again, ALL cable news programs are suspect for their bias and ideological leanings. The forum, 24 hour 'news', resembles nothing remotely related to journalism. Little today does.

[Chris Brady]

Well, apparently, andd I think is unofficial, but the reason there's no more military games up here with the U.S. is because us Canadians kept winning them.

[cattycutie]

Anyone who is critical of a soldier or armed forces in combat should have what little of his fucking nuts exist CUT off

I sort of resent that. While I respect those that go and sacrifice themselves for what they believe in (because I just wouldn't be brave enough), I disgree with the concept of war, I really do. You shouldn't have to die or kill to fight your corner. Also, there's this thing: "That side is evil and this one is good." ACTUALLY, they're thinking the exact same thing. They are the same as you; fighting for their cause. Is it right to kill them for it? No.

Back to the ACTUAL thingymabob, it's a sly thing to make jokes about, but they were jokes. Yes, distasteful, but light-hearted nonetheless.

[Destiny Ascension]

Well, apparently, andd I think is unofficial, but the reason there's no more military games up here with the U.S. is because us Canadians kept winning them.

For the sake of correct facts, I'll explain.

Its true, in basic infantry warfare Canadian Forces usually beat US Army. Now, this is hardly true of the Marine Corps and certainly not of our elite Special Forces, namely the SEALs and Green Berets, as the 'Delta Force', if it exists, usually plays around with European boys.

Basically, Canadian Infantry receive MUCH more rigorous and tough training upon enlistment and in basic training. Their standards are insanely high, so much so that about 55% of the US Army enlisted, not including the Reserves OR the National Guard, would not pass basic training or qualification because of not being fit, low scores in testing or physical inability. Now, when it comes to groups like the Army's Rangers or the Marines, there is more competition but yes, Canadian Forces usually win war games. Not all of them, mind you, the Marines have won a few and the Rangers did win one a while back, before 9/11.

The fact of the matter is, they are better trained out of the gate and whent hey advance past basic to selection school for their desired job in the Army, again, training is much harder and more intense for them. Canada has accepted the fact they will have fewer resources at hand and train soldiers harder. This is not to say training is inadequat int he United States, far from it, but compared side to side, the standards are simply different. But Canadian soldiers since WWII have shown they have more than enough skill and determination to skillfully and truthfully accomplish their duties and objectives.

Maybe its genetics or just how they are raised, but yes, Canadians have won in the past during war games. Which is why it pisses me off when THIS shit happens. They have an amazing Armed Forces, its not their fault that sometimes they cannot keep troops in country for as long as we can. You have to remember the United States can easily deploy 500 Thousand combat troops in a week. Canada, as far as I know, doesn't even have a full strength of that much. So I mean, its a question of numbers. For them, 2000 soldiers is a lot and even worse, the way the economy is, they simply don't have the machine of war to keep troops in country for durations. But I do know from personal experience, they have an amazing command troop and even more amazing soldiers under them. They just don't have the ability to keep troops in. And Afghanistan, mainly the mission in progress, is definitely going to suffer if they do infact leave for a year.

Also, catty, I agree. War is shit, but those guys weren't critical of the war, they were critical of the SOLDIERS in war. I don't give a crap who supports the war, I think its horrible and I wish I'd never seen it, but I full heartedly support the troops. Canadian soldiers don't want to be in Afghanistan, but they know they have to be to have a hope in preventing men who use unrestricted violence(Not talking insurgents, this is ALL Taliban) to achieve goals without remorse or afterthought. But I completely agree, war is shit, but its humanity's finest creation and we can't kill it, no matter how much we want too.

[Nessy]

Maybe its genetics or just how they are raised, but yes, Canadians have won in the past during war games.

Wait, you think that Canadians are significantly genetically different than American's and therefore they win war games?

[Destiny Ascension]

Wait, you think that Canadians are significantly genetically different than American's and therefore they win war games?

LMFAO, no, I didn't mean it like that.

I was exagerating, but what I meant was they just seem to have a lot of good soldiers. Not AT ALL, saying there is a difference, but Canadian troops simply receive much better training. Its slightly longer, and much more physically and mentally intense, but in now way am I going to compare troops directly, NOR am I going to say that Canadians have any kind of genetic superiority to Americans, I am not saying that at all. Nor am I saying Americans have any genetic superiority to Canadians, I'm just pointing out the obvious facts and I used that to prove a point.

To stay on topic here, I'm overall just saying when unfunny pricks like THAT guy and his retard friends in the video go from harmless(If REALLY unentertaining) jokes to actually insulting troops who have bled and died for us, then it goes beyond anger and more on to relation. I've been spit on and basically surrounded by protestors, but it all hurts just the same regardless if its done to ME or to someone else. They could make fun of British troops, and I'd still feel the sting. Personal thing only.

[HairyHeretic]

Every media outlet is rife with propaganda. After the who, when and where, it's all open to conjecture.

I don't think I'd agree with that. I think most media would have a lean towards left or right, but Fox don't even attempt to be neutral. They lean so far to the right that they're probably spinning in place at the moment.

I don't like to see Canada's contribution derided either, but lets keep in context that the Red Eye show is comedic commentary, not unlike the John Stewart show or others like it.

But really, be it Fox News or another channel, there isn't one out there that can claim a grain of rice worth of unbiased reporting. Not a one.

I generally check the news.bbc.co.uk site as a first stop for news, as they generally try (from what I can tell) to present things in an unbiased manner.

I'm afraid I wouldn't dignify what Fox does as reporting.

[Nessy]

Well having 2 living retired vets in my family, and having lost 1 who was in the Korean War, and I belive 3 that were in WWII, and these are the ones I actually knew and had the opportunity to hear their war stories, I don't think any of them would appreciate silly comparison of allied troops. I can assure you that my great uncle would tell you it doesn't matter what flag is on your ship or how good your training is when you are bobbing up and down in the middle of the Pacific ocean amongst eager tiger sharks. And he assured me that those who survived were not the ones who were the strongest, or the fastest but the ones who were not wearing life jackets and therefore not bobbing like bait. He could never bring himself to wear a life jacket again, or buy anything that was made in Japan. War is not war games.

But to try and take the men and women in the armed forces from one country and then compare them to another and to what? pick a winner, based on training and war games... They're all winners my book and frankly, I don't care what country they come from.

Canada, Australia, Russsia, China... at various times, all these countries were important to war victories... doesn't matter what their training was or whether or not they can claim more victories in war games.

Fox news is disgusting for a lot of reasons and this story is no different.

[consortium11]

I don't think I'd agree with that. I think most media would have a lean towards left or right, but Fox don't even attempt to be neutral. They lean so far to the right that they're probably spinning in place at the moment.

I generally check the news.bbc.co.uk site as a first stop for news, as they generally try (from what I can tell) to present things in an unbiased manner.

I'm afraid I wouldn't dignify what Fox does as reporting.

BBC, both their news and entertainment networks, are by their own account (as well as many ex-members) incredibly biased. It's just that it's not always biased one way or the other... one day they're very liberal, the next very middle class white-man conservative.

After all, the BBC is infamous for reversing "who charged who" in the miner's strike...

[Oniya]

Was that a UK miner's strike, though, Consortium?  Reading U.S. news stories through another country's news service gives you a completely different 'lens' to see them through.

[HairyHeretic]

BBC, both their news and entertainment networks, are by their own account (as well as many ex-members) incredibly biased. It's just that it's not always biased one way or the other... one day they're very liberal, the next very middle class white-man conservative.

Well, I can only go on my own interpretation of how I read the stories they present on the website.

After all, the BBC is infamous for reversing "who charged who" in the miner's strike...

We talking Thatcher era here? If so, your memory is a hell of a lot better than mine.

[Oniya]

*invokes Google-fu*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners%27_strike_(1984-1985)

This one?

[HairyHeretic]

I would presume so. It's the only one I can think of at least.

[consortium11]

Well, I can only go on my own interpretation of how I read the stories they present on the website.

A quick google search on "BBC bias" will throw up a host of websites chronicalling the BBC's "varied" level of coverage, although to be fair the criticisms are generally of the BBC as a whole as opposed to just their news reports, although their coverage of the middle East and notably Israel has repeatedly been heavily biased (as one of the BBC's own reports on the issue of bias states). Perhaps most telling the BBC refuses to release the findings of the most comprehensive report on the issue... which would suggest it's pretty heavily critical.

We talking Thatcher era here? If so, your memory is a hell of a lot better than mine.

The miners was in the Thatcher era, although the BBC has edited clips before and since (including in recent years). It's mainly that doing that is about as serious a failure of journalistic integrity as can be imagined, but the BBC seems to get a free pass. Imagine if Fox News admitted to reversing footage to, for example, make it appear a group of black men attacked police... only for it to turn out the police attacked. Would they ever live it down?

It's before my time, but media bias is a personal favourite topic of mine, so I generally look into it. It's just as interesting how Fox News or on the other side msnbc are considered very biased (although generally that's their comentators as opposed to their actual news), while the BBC gets glowing recomendations despite repeatedly faking news footage.

And this is from someone who checks the BBC about 4 times a day.

[Sel Nar]

I showed that 'Entertainment' Clip to my younger brother, who is, currently, in basic training in the CDN. Army.

I'm currently a 4-hour drive from where he's training, and I swear, I could ~hear~ the entire base's Collective Head Explode.

So... Yeah; Lots of pride here regarding our personal and military histories. I think, what really got Canada, as a whole, Riled up was that this 'Entertainment' *Cough*Complete Dreck*Cough* Was aired on the same day we recovered Four Soldiers who were killed in Afghanistan. So, if 116 dead out of 8 years of active combat duty for 2000 men and women, who will not even Consider pulling out of Afghanistan until at least 2011 is 'a pansy' army, then I am PROUD to be a member of a nation with such an armed force.

Interestingly, the show's host sent a written apology, but the Royal Canadian Legion (the war Veteran's association, essentially) rejected it out of hand, citing that the comments and language used in that show showed blatant disrespect for the living, the dead, and the families of those who have been lost in conflicts worldwide. I honestly can't blame them. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.

[Chris Brady]

I sort of resent that. While I respect those that go and sacrifice themselves for what they believe in (because I just wouldn't be brave enough), I disgree with the concept of war, I really do. You shouldn't have to die or kill to fight your corner.

The problem, Catty, is that at some point, you may have to fight.  In this case, the Terrorists believe that they are right, we are wrong and because of that, we have to die.  End of line.

And letting them kill us because it'll show them we're 'better' doesn't work, because they HAVE ALREADY rationalized that anything we do will PROVE THEM MORE RIGHT, and that their cause is 'just'.

The only thing that can and will change, is that someone from their side will have to look at what they have and see that change is necessary.  And that someone will have to survive the others wanting to kill him for wanting something different.  I'm sure there are/were a lot of Middle Easterners who decided to change for the better, to stop the killing.  But sadly, I'm also sure that they got killed before being able to do anything about it.

This really isn't about 'good' or 'bad', but about survival against a bunch of armed, dangerously pigheaded people that WILL go through with any act, because they simply believe that they are in the right.

It really is that simple.

[Will]

Um, on the subject of "Red Eye" not being considered news... Maybe they shouldn't be on a news channel.  Comparing it to the Daily Show is a little unfair, I think, considering the Daily Show is on Comedy Central.

And as news bias, sure, I would agree that every news outlet is biased.  The important thing is, how much?  As was said, Fox News doesn't even attempt to be neutral, in an effort to appeal to the lowest common denominator and get ratings.  Seriously, it is Fox News, after all.

[Oniya]

Yeah, news channels should be all news - just like Cartoon Network should be all cartoons, MTV should have actual music (I don't care what genre), and Sci Fi Network (I will never use the new name!) should show science fiction.

[Inkidu]

Angry Canadians? Write this down certainly it's never happened on such a scale. Naw, I like Canada. :)

[HairyHeretic]

The problem, Catty, is that at some point, you may have to fight. 

Perhaps, but I would be inclined to call fighting the least good option. It may sometimes be necessary, but that doesn't make it good.

In this case, the Terrorists believe that they are right, we are wrong and because of that, we have to die.  End of line.

I doubt it is quite that simple.

And letting them kill us because it'll show them we're 'better' doesn't work, because they HAVE ALREADY rationalized that anything we do will PROVE THEM MORE RIGHT, and that their cause is 'just'.

Everyone believes their cause is just. If they didn't, why would they persue it?

The only thing that can and will change, is that someone from their side will have to look at what they have and see that change is necessary.  And that someone will have to survive the others wanting to kill him for wanting something different.  I'm sure there are/were a lot of Middle Easterners who decided to change for the better, to stop the killing.  But sadly, I'm also sure that they got killed before being able to do anything about it.

Chris, you might want to do a bit of reading about the Middle East before coming out with statements like that. Terrorism is not that simple. There are plenty of underlying causes that will contribute to it. While I may not be familiar with the Middle East, I did spend 20+ years growing up in Northern Ireland, so believe me, I've seen terrorism on a daily basis.

It is not black and white.

This really isn't about 'good' or 'bad', but about survival against a bunch of armed, dangerously pigheaded people that WILL go through with any act, because they simply believe that they are in the right.

No, it isn't.

ter·ror·ism      (těr'ə-rĭz'əm)  Pronunciation Key
n.   The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

And I could add religious into that definition.

It really is that simple.

Again, no, it isn't. It is nowhere near that simple.

Any terrorist cause has dozens of root causes and possibly hundreds of years of greivances to call upon. Until you can understand why it is happening, you can't change things to stop it happening again.

Because it can change. Look at Northern Ireland during the late 70s and early 80s, and compare it to today.

I now return you to your regularly schedule disgust with Fox Propaganda.

Though if anyone does want to discuss terrorism I'll spin this off as the start of a new thread and we can go from there.

[Zero]

Most state troopers and national guard of the United States are mounted... It's not very ridiculous at all.

[crystaltears]

So, I highly doubt any of the yanks have heard about this, but a certain fox news program named the "Red Eye" has caused quite the outrage across my country (Canada), especially in Southern Ontario.

The news program made such slanderous and insulting remarks in reference to Canada's wish to 'take a break' from Afghanistan and get out of their as soon as possible.

Some of the things said were, "I didn't even know they were in the war", "I thought that's where you go if you don't want to fight", and the host suggested Canada would use the time out to "do some yoga, paint some landscapes and run on the beach."

"Isn't this the perfect time to invade this ridiculous country," Gutfeld continued. "They have no army."

They also suggested that Canada was taking advantage of the power of the neighbor to the south, being, of course, the United States.

In addition they also made fun of the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police), making fun of their dress uniform and horses. 

Now I don't know about you. But I don't appreciate this at all. Make fun of our maple syrup, igloos, and crazy canucker accents all you want, but do not make light our sacrifices we made for your war on terror.

So... thoughts on the matter? Has anyone south of the Great White Expanse heard anything about this?

I hadn't heard a thing about it. Personally I don't hold those views, and I'm certain most Americans I know in real life (granted that's maybe a network of 50 people) probably don't either. Several of them have had the opinion that this war is a bit too costly, none of them have ever spoken against anyone who's put their life on the line for us in war, or service (such as RCMP or our own Police, etc.) in front of me.

Personally, I have a few friends up there in Canada-land. And I'm very happy to count them as friends. Further, I happen to love the RCMP, who actually road in one of the Texas State Fairs or something one year and had an avid little Texan cowgirl fan for many years to follow (got to love their horses too, such beautiful creatures).

So, no, I hadn't heard about it. I'm sad it happened, but media is media. *Frowns* There is a reason I rarely watch news channels.

Just my 2 cents.

[Oniya]

Most state troopers and national guard of the United States are mounted... It's not very ridiculous at all.

A horse is more maneuverable than a car, faster than an officer on foot, and won't fall over like a bike or motorcycle when you dismount and do a take-down.

[consortium11]

A horse is more maneuverable than a car, faster than an officer on foot, and won't fall over like a bike or motorcycle when you dismount and do a take-down.

But they have real issues if you question their sexuality...

http://www.oxfordstudent.com/tt2005wk6/News/finalist_arrested_for_calling_police_horse_'gay'

;)

[Sabby]

Wow. Free Speech doesn't exist anymore.

[Rhapsody]

Yeah, frankly, holding the line at Dunkirk with the German war machine down on you... that took cajones the size of Texas to do that.  Kudoes to the Maple Leafs for helping to hold 'em off.  On another note, a Canadian detachment took one of the beaches on D-Day.  I can't remember which one it was... Juno, I think.  Anyway, I'll be the first to come to the defense of Canadians when people suggest that they can't fight like wolverines. O_O

If we're talking about WW Canadian heroes, I'd like to nominate the Royal Newfoundland Regiment though, technically, we were still Dominion ruled by the UK until 49.  Nearly 600 Newfies bled and died at Beaumont Hamel, and nearly a century later, some of us still consider our Memorial Day more important than Canada Day, even though they're both celebrated on July 1st.  Hell, we even named our university Memorial in their and other soldiers' honor.

The Regiment recovered from its near-extinction the first day of the Battle of the Somme, and is still active today. 

Since 1992, soldiers and sub-units of the regiment have served to augment Regular Force units in Cyprus, Bosnia, Sierra Leone and Afghanistan on peacekeeping and combat missions.

500,000 people all told in my province, and these are the heroes many of us are descended from and related to.  I know each and every single other province has similar legends and heritages.

So Fox News can kiss my Canadian ass.  We're proud of our soldiers, past present and future, even if you're not.

[Zakharra]

 Talk to the current head of Homeland Security. She insinuated that the 9-11 terrorists came into the US through the Canadian border.

[Silk]

Talk to the current head of Homeland Security. She insinuated that the 9-11 terrorists came into the US through the Canadian border.

Even though the general consesus is that they came from the east? Espeically since a whole lot of warnings apparently went off in europe about those planes that were failing to respond in our airspace.

[Nessy]

Even though the general consensus is that they came from the east? Especially since a whole lot of warnings apparently went off in Europe about those planes that were failing to respond in our airspace.

They're politicians. They are going to misstate facts and going to say things that excites their base. I think John McCain mentioned the border thing with Canada and another rep whose name I cannot remember. I believe point of the discussion at the time had to do with whether or not it makes sense to practically strip search people coming into the USA by plane when they can hop a fence at the Mexico border and drive by some barely working camera or use a boat to cross at the Canadian border. There is, of course, an assumption being made by either statement that for some reason Canada and Mexico didn't stop them from entering their borders and that probably has to do with the fact that none of the countries are working with the same list.

It's a valid concern, whether or not it already happened. The point is and was, it could.

[Zakharra]

 She, at the least, should have known where those terrorists came into the US, and it was not through the US/Canadian border. It was well documented how they got into the US. So her accusation uneccessarily pissed off a friendly neighhbor.

[Nessy]

She, at the least, should have known where those terrorists came into the US, and it was not through the US/Canadian border. It was well documented how they got into the US. So her accusation uneccessarily pissed off a friendly neighhbor.

Yeah, it would be useful if politicians checked their facts before opening their mouths and make accussations, but I don't see why that should piss off any nation. It would be just as much the USA's responsibility to protect its border, if not more so, than Canada's. I just think some people want to be pissed off. If I got angry at every ignorant, clueless statement that was uttered by politicians or people who think they just know everything while I was traveling abroad I would have spent a lot more time being angry and a lot less time enjoying myself and understanding other cultures. Stupid statements from politicians is not unique to the USA.

[Zakharra]

 Yeah, but the head of Homeland Security? I'm a common person in the US and I knew the terrorists hadn't come in through Canada. If she blew it on something as easy as that, it makes me question how effective she will be.

[Nessy]

Yeah, but the head of Homeland Security? I'm a common person in the US and I knew the terrorists hadn't come in through Canada. If she blew it on something as easy as that, it makes me question how effective she will be.

Well I am not a huge fan of politicians by any means. I really am not, but they are common people too. They make mistakes. I mean how many wars and battles have we (insert any nation here) entered with misinformation. I am pretty sure at some point, there was a discussion on whether the terrorists entered through borders Canada or Mexico. I am going to forgive someone for making a mistake that, on paper, isn't that unreasonable at all. We all make them and most of us don't have the media shoving cameras in our face when we do. A mistake is not a reflection of a lack of intelligence or necessarily an indication that someone is not qualified for their position. It is just an indication that they were wrong at a given point in time. The head of Homeland Security is under a lot of pressure, has a lot of responsibility and deals with more information than most of us could even imagine. You are, of course, free to judge her as you will. I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Silk]

Well I am not a huge fan of politicians by any means. I really am not, but they are common people too. They make mistakes. I mean how many wars and battles have we (insert any nation here) entered with misinformation. I am pretty sure at some point, there was a discussion on whether the terrorists entered through borders Canada or Mexico. I am going to forgive someone for making a mistake that, on paper, isn't that unreasonable at all. We all make them and most of us don't have the media shoving cameras in our face when we do. A mistake is not a reflection of a lack of intelligence or necessarily an indication that someone is not qualified for their position. It is just an indication that they were wrong at a given point in time. The head of Homeland Security is under a lot of pressure, has a lot of responsibility and deals with more information than most of us could even imagine. You are, of course, free to judge her as you will. I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

If she cannot handle the workload she should not have taken the job.

[Nessy]

If she cannot handle the workload she should not have taken the job.

She's not Rush Limbaugh here. There isn't' a pattern of years of just wanting to insight and misrepresent information. There isn't anyone out there that doesn't have a misstep on the job once in awhile, not even the leaders of our countries.

[Silk]

Except the world leaders are meant to be the ones "In the know" If they got a desk full of reoprts saying that it was sighted coming over europe, you dont ask if it came from bloody canada.

[Nessy]

Except the world leaders are meant to be the ones "In the know" If they got a desk full of reoprts saying that it was sighted coming over europe, you dont ask if it came from bloody canada.

Well if I recall correctly, John McCain used the same information. He's been in the business for years. Obama made a few quaffs in his first hundred days. Japanese officials are telling their population AIDS isn't' a problem Japan needs to be concerned with, it's "over" there, not here. Being in an "official" position doesn't make you impervious to mistakes. Some of it is willful; some of it isn't. It just happens. When the CEO of a hospital misquotes the statistics for the health system he is running, the very report he read the morning of the meeting, the analysts who put together the report don't just jump up and tell him he is incompetent and  should step down. We're not sitting around, rubbing our hands together waiting for a chance to jump up and scream "Gotcha!". It happens ALL the time, mistakes get made.

They make decisions everyday. They read dozens of reports daily, hundreds of e-mail, half-dozen meetings with two to a dozen people all going over a ton of information with them in one setting. They're human beings. And until I see a pattern of misconduct, a pattern of willful negligence, I am going to give the human being the benefit of the doubt. She made a mistake. It was caught, and corrected. Time to move on.

[Serephino]

I had not heard this, though I don't listen to Fox news, and ignore anything to do with them.  I lost respect for them during the Presidential Campaign.  They latched onto all the ridiculous claims made by Republicans and reported it as fact.  Then when Obama was elected they were coming out with some kind of criticism or bold faced lie every other day.  The guy was in office 2 days and they were saying he's dooming us all.  *grumbles*

I don't blame Canada for wanting out.  While I have a lot of respect for anyone who serves in the military, this war is bullshit and I don't support it at all.  Billions of dollars are being lost, and thousands of lives.  Terrorism has existed as long as society has existed, and it always will.  There has to be another way to deal with it.

Personally, I wouldn't blame any of the other countries for pulling out.  This isn't their fight and we're dragging them down with us anyway. 

[Salernine]

At it's core, Canada does not have a war-like minority. The population wants the army out because the mission was supposed to be a peacekeeping mission. At some point during the war, that changed into being at the front line.

By the by, for those who are worried that Canada would be leaving Afghanistan cold turkey, I doubt that would happen. Canadian troops would still be there in a way, only they would not be at the front lines.

Then again, most of you probably knew all of this.

I'm not exactly proud of Canada for reasons I will not get into, but our armed forces is good people, y'all.

[Bayushi]

I got respect for the Canadian Military.

I've exercised against them(and as opposed to someone's earlier statements, we kicked their asses), and all-in-all, they were some pretty decent guys. Good soldiers, too.

Given all that, there's what, a thousand(maybe?) Canadian soldiers and airmen in Afghanistan? Their leaving isn't going to make much of a difference.

If anything, during my time over in Hill Country, I not once encountered a Canadian. Brits, yes. If anything, the Brits were the most common non-Americans we encountered, outside of the locals(I spent a lot of time dealing with the locals, being HumInt). If I wasn't dealing with locals, I was way out in the bush somewhere, or on standby at an airfield in case we needed to be dropped somewhere(Airborne).

As for Fox News?

If you don't like it.... honestly, don't watch it? Getting riled up over it isn't going to change anything. Regardless of the many thousands/millions of dollars being poured into Media Watchdog organizations, the Media as a whole is bent in one direction or the other, politically. CNN/MSNBC/etc are hellbent to the 'Left'. Fox News to the 'Right'.

You realize the biggest problem is that there is still a Left vs Right mentality? What about 'PLACE YOUR COUNTRY FIRST'? Where did we lose that? We got politicians worrying about their political careers and their funding base(s), and not the country itself. To hell with the constituents.

*sigh*