Obama wins the Nobel Peace Prize?

[Elayne]

(CNN) -- President Barack Obama said Friday that he was humbled by the decision of the Norwegian Nobel Committee to award him the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize.
President Obama, speaking Friday, said the award was "an affirmation of American leadership."

President Obama, speaking Friday, said the award was "an affirmation of American leadership."

"I am both surprised and deeply humbled," Obama said at the White House.

"I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments. But rather as an affirmation of American leadership. ... I will accept this award as a call to action."

Obama said he did not feel he deserves "to be in the company" of past winners, but would continue to push a broad range of international objectives, including nuclear non-proliferation, a reversal of the global economic downturn, and a resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

He acknowledged the ongoing U.S. conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, noting that he is the "commander in chief of a country that is responsible for ending" one war and confronting a dangerous adversary in another.

"This award is not simply about my administration," he said. It "must be shared" with everyone who strives for "justice and dignity."

The Nobel Committee said it decided to honor Obama for his "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples."

The president had not been mentioned as among front-runners for the prize, and the roomful of reporters in Oslo, Norway, gasped when Thorbjorn Jagland, chairman of the Nobel committee, uttered Obama's name.

The Nobel committee recognized Obama's efforts to solve complex global problems including working toward a world free of nuclear weapons.

"Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future," the committee said.

Jagland said the decision was "unanimous" and came with ease.

He rejected the notion that Obama had been recognized prematurely for his efforts and said the committee wanted to promote the president just as it had Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990 in his efforts to open up the Soviet Union.

"His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population," it said.

The Nobel Peace Prize winner is chosen by a five-member committee of lawmakers elected by the Norwegian parliament. Specially appointed advisers weigh in.

More than a year before the prize is awarded, the Nobel committee seeks nominations from members of governments and international courts, heads of universities, academics and previous Nobel laureates. Self-nominations are not allowed. The nomination deadline is February. The committee makes its final vote in October. The winner is determined by a simple majority vote.

Obama will donate the roughly $1.4 million award to charity, a White House spokesman said Friday.

Some analysts have speculated that the prize could give Obama additional clout as he forms a strategy for the war in Afghanistan and attempts to engage Iran and North Korea. Another senior administration official told CNN he hopes the White House can "use it for the positive." Praise, skepticism greet Nobel announcement

The domestic political consequences are unclear. Supporters hope the prestige associated with the prize will strengthen the president's hand in the health care reform debate. A top Republican from George W. Bush's administration, however, argued that "this will backfire on them for a while" and asserted it was "a gift to the right."

Obama's recognition comes less than a year after he became the first African-American to win the White House. He is the fourth U.S. president to win the prestigious prize and the third sitting president to do so.

The award comes at a crucial time for Obama, who has initiated peace missions in key parts of the globe.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton starts a six-day trip to Europe and Russia on Friday. On the trip, the secretary will discuss the next steps on Iran and North Korea, and international efforts to have the two countries end their nuclear programs.

Mohamed ElBaradei, who won the 2005 peace prize for his efforts to prevent nuclear energy being used for military means, said Obama deserved to win for his efforts to bring Iran to the table for direct nuclear talks with the United States.

"I could not think of anybody who is more deserving," said ElBaradei, the chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The last sitting U.S. president to win the peace prize was Woodrow Wilson in 1919. The other was Theodore Roosevelt in 1906. Jimmy Carter had been out of office for more than two decades when he won in 2002. Obama unique among presidential Nobel winners

This year's Peace Prize nominees included 172 people -- among them three Chinese dissidents, an Afghan activist and a controversial Colombian lawmaker -- and 33 organizations, the highest number of nominations ever.

[Inkidu]

No... I don't think he should.

[HairyHeretic]

It's too early. I like the guy, and I hope he lives up to the promise he's shown, but the Nobel Prize should be awarded for what has been accomplished, not what someone hopes to accomplish. A few years from now he might be worthy of it, but not here and now.

[Zorak]

Why not?  It's quite clear that the panel stipulated that the award was given, not for a particular success, but for "inspiring hope".  And if that's what they want to give the award for, then "inspire hope" he did, and he did so across the globe.  What we should be doing, is "hoping" a little ourselves, that the award will help some hard-liners open their ears a bit, and just listen instead of reacting with blinders on, and thorough emotionalism and hatred.

Good for you Mr. President - now - go out there and prove the naysayers wrong.  I wish you success, because your success benefits us all.

[Jude]

I don't think he deserves it yet, but I am still not against the fact that it was rewarded to him.  It's a nice outreach from the international community to our country.  Don't just look at it as an individual being awarded something; he's our president.  What does that say about America?

It's strange to see all of the "respect the office of the president" conservatives using this as a point to bash Obama.  I'm not saying that they had to shut up, but the Republican party made a point of putting out a statement.

Come on guys, where's your class?

[Kotah]

My personal thoughts:

Obama better get moving on fulfilling some of that hope he inspired.

[RubySlippers]

WTF? First they gave one to a known terrorist and head of the PLO and now this. Their standards are sure fraking slipping in some cases.

Inspiring Hope? When is that a category that makes any sense I mean I get literature, peace (Mandala at least earned that legitimately), medicine, economics and the like. But inspiring hope is way to silly to give such an award to. And many deserve that far more than he does people that put their asses on the line for others and can die and face other grave hardships. He is a pampered member of the US elite that has done nothing to deserve such an honor.

The only thing he did was get elected after that unpopular warmonger and liar Bush and people were relieved, for a man that is well a classic politician and not a very good one as I see it.

Why not give it to a Chinese dissident or someone that DID something meaningful that would be far more respectful of the weight these prizes are to carry.

[Callie Del Noire]

I'm sorry.. President Obama shouldn't get a Nobel for being elected. He's done some good things..and some bad things.. but he hasn't done anything to merit a Nobel. I mean.. President Carter got a prize for doing DECADES of work towards building peace.

That is a medal earned... sorry.. you don't give that prize for something as simple as being elected after one of the most noxious presidents in recent history.

[Ryven]

I think they gave it under the impression of the potential he could do which is not what the award is for.  He's a great guy, but I don't think he's done enough to warrant winning it.  Maybe check back after 4 years.

[Moon and Star]

I.. I... I thought this was a hoax when I first read it.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html

The best way I can sum up their reasoning... the hope for change. :'(

[Callie Del Noire]

I.. I... I thought this was a hoax when I first read it.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html

The best way I can sum up their reasoning... the hope for change. :'(

Sorry.. Hope for Change is what a LONG road like what Martin Luther King Jr. earned his for. You don't get it for what..10 months of office?

[Ryven]

I have to agree.  He has the potential to do a lot.  I think he was as surprised as everyone else though, but I don't think he could really turn it down.  Seems like a damned if you do and damned if you don't sort of situation.

[Zorak]

For what it's worth, he didn't go looking for the award.  He didn't even have a chance to comment, because his name was never listed as being "on the list" to receive one.  So how can you step on his toes for that?  As for the prize itself?  There's 1.4 MILLION dollars going to charity because of it, so I think there are a lot of winners here. 

Try to look at things in that light.

As for "delivering" on promises, remember, there's a CONGRESS that has to let things happen... and right now... it's getting in the way.

[Ryven]

I don't think anyone is directing their comments at him.  They're simply stating that they either agree or disagree that he deserved it.  He didn't have much say in it, so it would be pretty bad form to blame him.

[Jude]

I don't think anyone is directing their comments at him.  They're simply stating that they either agree or disagree that he deserved it.  He didn't have much say in it, so it would be pretty bad form to blame him.

It has become another angle by which to attack him though.

I expect this of private citizens and crazy commentators who don't like him, but the Republican Party?

The award is basically the Nobel people saying, "Hey, we think you deserve recognition," should this really be taken as an invitation for public figures to go "nuh uh?!"

Not that I'm saying it should be illegal or anything as such, freedom of speech, but I do think it's in poor taste.

[Elayne]

I happen to support Barack Obama.

However, he was nominated for the award on his 11th day in office and received it after 10 months in office.  Which to me means the award is the "You're not Bush award."

Let's look at some of the other recipients -

Theodore Roosevelt - Treaty ending the Russian/Japanese war, 1906.
Woodrow Wilson - Treaty ending WW1, creating the League of Nations, extending suffrage to women, 1919.
Dr. Martin Luther King - The civil rights movement.
Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Thuo - Ending the Vietnam War.
Norman Borlaug - Research doubling the world food supply, saving 1,000,000 (billion) lives from starvation.
Meechem Begen and Anwar Sadat - Treaty guaranteeing peace between Egypt and Israel.
Mother Theresa - Fighting poverty in India
Mikhail Gorbachev - Ending pereistroika
Nelson Mandela and Frederik De Klerk - Ending apartheid
Jimmy Carter - Spending 30 years working towards peace in the Middle East.
----

Now, I like Barack Obama.  But considering him to be up there with Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, and Mother Theresa?  Come on now.  Even in terms of the other presidents, considering him up there with Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson? 

I hope that Barack Obama does eventually earn his award, but the fact of the matter is, he hasn't earned it yet and there's no real practical reason he should have it.  (Consider that in this year, we have Hua Jia who led a anti-communist revolt in China, Neda who died in pro-democracy revolt in Iran and Morgan Tsvangirai who finally ended the dictatorship of Mugabe in Zimbabwei.)

He's got a lot further to go before I started lauding him as a hero.

[Moon and Star]

Sorry.. Hope for Change is what a LONG road like what Martin Luther King Jr. earned his for. You don't get it for what..10 months of office?

That was meant to be a pun... and I didn't actually Google the phrase first. Generally the crying emoticon is meant to portray unhappiness. I disagree with this man being awarded the prize. Therefore unhappy. There was a reason hope for change was uncapitalized. If you remember that far back "hope" an "change" were pretty much his campaign platform.

But this is what I get for making a joke in this kind of thread.

[Revolverman]

Considering hes busy escalating wars, I'm confused where the peace comes in.

[Callie Del Noire]

Considering hes busy escalating wars, I'm confused where the peace comes in.

Wouldn't say he's escalating. Right now it's very tricky to just pull out in day. Time Magazine (not exactly a conservative bastion) said if we pulled out of where we are deployed at right now that there was a fair chance of civil war in both Afganistan and Iraq..with the potention for tens of thousands innocent casualties.

Should we have gone? That's for history to decide. But the president has the tricky part now..he's got to do it in a way that leaves something stable and unexposed behind. That, if he pulls it off, is something that would anyone a Peace Prize.

[Inkidu]

Well if Obama gets it now it's for what? Adding a trillion (hyperbole) dollars in stimulating debt?

Wait 'til he actually does something? I mean if a person can win it on potential alone I think I should get one.

[Revolverman]

Wouldn't say he's escalating. Right now it's very tricky to just pull out in day. Time Magazine (not exactly a conservative bastion) said if we pulled out of where we are deployed at right now that there was a fair chance of civil war in both Afganistan and Iraq..with the potention for tens of thousands innocent casualties.

Should we have gone? That's for history to decide. But the president has the tricky part now..he's got to do it in a way that leaves something stable and unexposed behind. That, if he pulls it off, is something that would anyone a Peace Prize.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't both Iraq and Afghanistan already in a civil war? Add the fact Obama is ordering more attacking into Pakistan, and it seems like he could pull in a 3rd nation into this mess. (one with nukes)

[Callie Del Noire]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't both Iraq and Afghanistan already in a civil war? Add the fact Obama is ordering more attacking into Pakistan, and it seems like he could pull in a 3rd nation into this mess. (one with nukes)

Well Iran was relatively stable (with a large helping of atrocities and despotism) and the Taliban had a good chunk of their country sewn up. (They tended to shoot dissadents).

Of course if we had followed up with the second part of Charlie Wilson's plan for getting the Russians out of Afganistan (Roads, school, infastructure, government aimed towards stability..) we'd possibly avoided a lot of the last ten years period.

And the part of Pakistan he's attacking..well that's the part no one above the rank of border chief ever had control of.

[Revolverman]

Well Iran was relatively stable (with a large helping of atrocities and despotism) and the Taliban had a good chunk of their country sewn up. (They tended to shoot dissadents).

Of course if we had followed up with the second part of Charlie Wilson's plan for getting the Russians out of Afganistan (Roads, school, infastructure, government aimed towards stability..) we'd possibly avoided a lot of the last ten years period.

And the part of Pakistan he's attacking..well that's the part no one above the rank of border chief ever had control of.

He's still spreading instability around the world. Seems like the polar opposite of peace.

[Vekseid]

...I'm sure you do, Inkidu.

While I buy the idea of giving him political capital, it sortof... circumvents the point. Not that he hasn't achieved a great deal, but still.

[Callie Del Noire]

He's still spreading instability around the world. Seems like the polar opposite of peace.

And what happens if we just  pull up stakes and leave the folks in the theater to their own devices? I doubt the governments would last months with Iran meddling in their affairs, the Taliban would jump on the bandwagon to get control of Afganistan (and Pakistan for that matter) again.

We (the US) pulled up stakes at the end of the first World War and washed our hands of affairs in Europe..well look how that turned out.

It would be nice to flick a switch and make everything good, but in the politically volatile world we live it.. it takes time and patience.

That is where the president will earn his nobel, if he can pull it off..and truthfully.. I wish him only the best on that.

Pulling up stakes and pulling a 'its not our problem' attitude.. won't do it.

[Serephino]

I like the guy, and I think he's doing the best job he can given the current state of things, but no, he didn't deserve this award.  I think he got it because of all the hype over him. 

And honestly, this will give his critics more ammo.  They can say he's just in it for recognition.  Yes, I know he had nothing to do with the decision, but that won't stop people from twisting the situation.  I was so grateful I cut off ties with that hardcore Christian because she would've called me up bright and early to ramble on and on about how this is even more proof he's the Anti-Christ.   

[Inkidu]

...I'm sure you do, Inkidu.

While I buy the idea of giving him political capital, it sortof... circumvents the point. Not that he hasn't achieved a great deal, but still.

Considering the guy who founded the prize did it because he hadn't anticipated the negative side effects of dynamite. Interesting, no?

[Kate]

"WTF? First they gave one to a known terrorist and head of the PLO and now this. " - ruby.

I think this is a good thing that someone in the PLO got it.
Does he deserve it ? It depends on what change he was pushing and the situation he was in to do so. Right place right time to really avoid something worse ? Maybe !

If you isolate what you "Dont like" it grows, you want everyone to get along ?
Reward actions you like. Nobel prizes are politics.
*

Obama getting a Nobel though ? No. Yes he seems to be doing a good job
at deserving one so far, perhaps after his presidency may be more appropriate,
but frankly he doesnt need it to have his efforts recognised and known,
many others do for efforts that would benefit more from it.

[Zeitgeist]

If the award was given (as most people agree) for things he may do in the future, how does this tie his hands in the near and foreseeable future? After all, hope is all about looking forward right?

How does this headline sound?

"2009 Nobel Peace Prize winner, Barack Obama, sends more combat troops to Afghanistan". That's just one example.

Unintentional or not, I believe this really backs him into a corner, boxes him in, handcuffs him.

[Kate]

I think its more a swipe at the x-president bush jr's previous approach.

[Kirei]

I'm going to be different and say that yes, he did totally deserve the price.

Now, I said that he deserved the price and that is my opinion, however I don't think it should have been given to him for there are people who certainly deserve it more than he does.

What I think is that he was given it as an 'encouragement' prize. So that it would be noticed that his efforts are appreciated around the world. I don't think that's how nobel should be given, but now that it's done, I hope he can make the best out of it. I just wish he could materialize those promises and hopes he has been spreading.

[Kate]

I listened to his acceptance speech.

"I don't feel I deserve to be among those who have received this " ra ra ....

Right or wrong decision for him to have it ...  God I love that guy -
the entire world wants to clone him (figuratively speaking)

[Vekseid]

Considering the guy who founded the prize did it because he hadn't anticipated the negative side effects of dynamite. Interesting, no?

And yet, nitroglycerin has saved lives, and lives of those you know. Regardless, granting political capital is a part of the purpose of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Rachel Maddow: The Nobel Prize & Obama Derangement Syndrome

[Callie Del Noire]

I noticed that she keeps using the words 'persuaded' the people of the United States to do this.. or that..

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but if you follow her logic ANYONE who gets elected president on campaign promises like that should be get the peace prize.

And a LOT of the people she sneeringly pointed out that got the prize before (if ever) achieving their ends did so under great adversity to themselves and their people. I don't see the president getting locked up, tortured or harassed.

I mean.. come on..

[Vekseid]

I think it would have done Maddow better if she had pointed out that Woodrow Wilson probably did more to taint the prize than anyone after him could hope to. America and the world are still paying for the damage he dealt, and dearly. As if the Nobel prize represented some notion of perfection.

Do I think he earned it? I do believe there are others more worthy than him at this point in his carreer. I do not and should not have a say in that, however. There is an attitude in America that America is separate from the world somehow, when our very trade decisions - nevermind warfare - create and destroy empires. "Not Bush" means a lot to the world, even if it doesn't to you, and it was not an American decision.

Honestly, the vitriol and whining from 'the right' tells me more about the sorts of people in this country who do so.  If the neocons want to create their own title and award, they are free to do so.

[Callie Del Noire]

I think it would have done Maddow better if she had pointed out that Woodrow Wilson probably did more to taint the prize than anyone after him could hope to. America and the world are still paying for the damage he dealt, and dearly. As if the Nobel prize represented some notion of perfection.

Do I think he earned it? I do believe there are others more worthy than him at this point in his carreer. I do not and should not have a say in that, however. There is an attitude in America that America is separate from the world somehow, when our very trade decisions - nevermind warfare - create and destroy empires. "Not Bush" means a lot to the world, even if it doesn't to you, and it was not an American decision.

Honestly, the vitriol and whining from 'the right' tells me more about the sorts of people in this country who do so.  If the neocons want to create their own title and award, they are free to do so.

Isolationism in post WW1 did a lot to taint what Wilson was trying to do. The League of Nations had no teeth due in a large part to the fact that US wasn't a member.. among other things.. but if Wilson's vision had been accepted and nutured here in the states, perhaps WW2 wouldn't have occured. He did a LOT towards peace, only to have it scuttled here in the states.

[Inkidu]

Isolationism in post WW1 did a lot to taint what Wilson was trying to do. The League of Nations had no teeth due in a large part to the fact that US wasn't a member.. among other things.. but if Wilson's vision had been accepted and nutured here in the states, perhaps WW2 wouldn't have occured. He did a LOT towards peace, only to have it scuttled here in the states.

I hate to say it, but WW2 in many ways is Britain's and France's fault. Sure there was a world-wide depression, but the aforementioned had to exact their pound of flesh from Germany and it didn't help the general goodwill of Europe. It left the wound wide open for a charismatic art school reject to find his penchant of politics.

Wilson actually suggested that Germany not pay for it, but was ignored him on that.

[Callie Del Noire]

I hate to say it, but WW2 in many ways is Britain's and France's fault. Sure there was a world-wide depression, but the aforementioned had to exact their pound of flesh from Germany and it didn't help the general goodwill of Europe. It left the wound wide open for a charismatic art school reject to find his penchant of politics.

Wilson actually suggested that Germany not pay for it, but was ignored him on that.

And you don't think an America standing with their European Allies might not have moderated the vindicitveness of France and Britain? Instead we stuck our head in the sand for decades and were stunned to find that the axis was perfectly willing to shank us when they got the chance?

Wilson might have had the right ideas but we as a nation failed to see it then.

[Inkidu]

And you don't think an America standing with their European Allies might not have moderated the vindicitveness of France and Britain? Instead we stuck our head in the sand for decades and were stunned to find that the axis was perfectly willing to shank us when they got the chance?

Wilson might have had the right ideas but we as a nation failed to see it then.

As a nation I don't blame us for not getting caught up in European affairs, which history shows are quite nasty, but don't think we didn't try to help. The Dawes Act for example (I'm ninety percent certain that was the name of it). We paid portions of Germany's debt to help them, but that world-wide depression kind of put a damper on our philanthropy.


Howev

[Cythieus]

Did anyone complain this much when Gore won? I'm sorry but that liar shouldn't have gotten it and frankly I would have told them if Gore got it, I didn't want it. Of course it does come with money.

[Chea]

I happen to support Barack Obama.

However, he was nominated for the award on his 11th day in office and received it after 10 months in office.  Which to me means the award is the "You're not Bush award."

Let's look at some of the other recipients -

Theodore Roosevelt - Treaty ending the Russian/Japanese war, 1906.
Woodrow Wilson - Treaty ending WW1, creating the League of Nations, extending suffrage to women, 1919.
Dr. Martin Luther King - The civil rights movement.
Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Thuo - Ending the Vietnam War.
Norman Borlaug - Research doubling the world food supply, saving 1,000,000 (billion) lives from starvation.
Meechem Begen and Anwar Sadat - Treaty guaranteeing peace between Egypt and Israel.
Mother Theresa - Fighting poverty in India
Mikhail Gorbachev - Ending pereistroika
Nelson Mandela and Frederik De Klerk - Ending apartheid
Jimmy Carter - Spending 30 years working towards peace in the Middle East.
----

Now, I like Barack Obama.  But considering him to be up there with Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, and Mother Theresa?  Come on now.  Even in terms of the other presidents, considering him up there with Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson? 

I hope that Barack Obama does eventually earn his award, but the fact of the matter is, he hasn't earned it yet and there's no real practical reason he should have it.  (Consider that in this year, we have Hua Jia who led a anti-communist revolt in China, Neda who died in pro-democracy revolt in Iran and Morgan Tsvangirai who finally ended the dictatorship of Mugabe in Zimbabwei.)

He's got a lot further to go before I started lauding him as a hero.

Hmm...Well I think he deserves it. If racists like Roosevelt and Wilson were nominated Obama's a much better choice.

[SleepyWei]

Hmm...Well I think he deserves it. If racists like Roosevelt and Wilson were nominated Obama's a much better choice.

Being racist is one thing to frown upon, yes. But they did monumental tasks for their time that merits a Nobel Peace Prize.

On the other hand, Obama didn't really do anything amazing aside from being the first African American to be elected as President. Yet he got the Nobel Peace Prize. Why is that? Because he gave hope? Unless he actually did something that began moving the US to a peaceful time again, I don't think he deserves that prize.

[Chea]

So their "monumental tasks" make up for their racism and greed? Obama is the first president that isn't trying to blow up another nation, and he's trying bring harmony to the world instead of playing favorites i.e Isreal. I think that'd be enough to convience the world he deserves the prize.

[Vekseid]

...he is trying to blow up parts of Pakistan >_>

The important thing to remember is that this isn't an American reward - our opinion on why or what does not matter to the committee deciding - and I think that's actually rather intentional and pointed, this time around.

[Cythieus]

I think that this just has to be posted.

[Callie Del Noire]

I think that this just has to be posted.

That guy is a total tool. (not the President..the other guy. :D )

[Cythieus]

That guy is a total tool. (not the President..the other guy. :D )

Kanye? Eh I think his meme is pretty versatile though.

[Ramster]

What does it say about a leader whose biggest achievement is winning the Peace Prize, and not much else? Bloody hell, he's made me agree with Rush Limbaugh for the first time ever.

At least he hasn't had a chance to win it by killing as many people as Kissinger though.

[Cythieus]

What does it say about a leader whose biggest achievement is winning the Peace Prize, and not much else? Bloody hell, he's made me agree with Rush Limbaugh for the first time ever.

At least he hasn't had a chance to win it by killing as many people as Kissinger though.

If you think this award is a big accomplishment how about this. America looks ten times better than it has in previous years. When you talk to foreigners about your country you can actually not have to hear them ridicule your head of state with you unable to make any retort. He's bridged gaps with Europe and the Muslim world and he's started picking us back up out of the dumps we were in. If you think those aren't accomplishments then I don't know what to tell you. 

[Ramster]

Not being hated as much as your predecessor shouldn't be enough to qualify for the prize though. It's far too early in the man's presidency to say he's done much to further peace in the world. He took five months just to decide which puppy to get his daughters!

[Inkidu]

If you think this award is a big accomplishment how about this. America looks ten times better than it has in previous years. When you talk to foreigners about your country you can actually not have to hear them ridicule your head of state with you unable to make any retort. He's bridged gaps with Europe and the Muslim world and he's started picking us back up out of the dumps we were in. If you think those aren't accomplishments then I don't know what to tell you.

I don't particularly care what foreigners think of my country because:

Europe makes us look like choir boys.
Most American wars are spent cleaning up someone else's mess. (I.E. WWI, WW2, Vietnam formerly known as French Indochina.)

Everyone hates big brother as far as I'm concerned, and don't get me wrong, I like Europe and the rest of the world for the most part but I don't think people with a more violent history have the right to ridicule a country over nine or so wars. Most of the lasting very short amounts of time, and very rarely America's fault. Just a little historical perspective.

[Zorak]

One could make an argument, that however ill conceived or timed, Iraq is also "cleaning up someone else's mess". 

[Cythieus]

Not being hated as much as your predecessor shouldn't be enough to qualify for the prize though. It's far too early in the man's presidency to say he's done much to further peace in the world. He took five months just to decide which puppy to get his daughters!

Where did I say anything about not being hated...I said he repaired things.

[Vekseid]

I don't particularly care what foreigners think of my country because:

Europe makes us look like choir boys.
Most American wars are spent cleaning up someone else's mess. (I.E. WWI, WW2, Vietnam formerly known as French Indochina.)

Everyone hates big brother as far as I'm concerned, and don't get me wrong, I like Europe and the rest of the world for the most part but I don't think people with a more violent history have the right to ridicule a country over nine or so wars. Most of the lasting very short amounts of time, and very rarely America's fault. Just a little historical perspective.

...what wars has Norway started since America was founded?

[The Overlord]

What does it say about a leader whose biggest achievement is winning the Peace Prize, and not much else? Bloody hell, he's made me agree with Rush Limbaugh for the first time ever.

At least he hasn't had a chance to win it by killing as many people as Kissinger though.

You mean as opposed to his predecessor? Who started one war, fumbled two, allowed by far the worst act of terrorism on US soil on his watch, eroded civil rights, and committed acts that, were they done by the ‘rogue nations’ on their list, would have been termed treasonous.

At least Obama has been, the conservative right be damned for mewling otherwise, taking the right track. We’ll see how things look in the second half of his term, none of the things on his plate are overnight fixes. Not even close.

[Zorak]

We’ll see how things look in the second half of his term, none of the things on his plate are overnight fixes. Not even close.

YES.

And yet, for all those people who seem to say they hate him, or he's doing a terrible job, please read the above quote... you have to give things a chance before you can make a determination.  JMHO.  Otherwise it's just conjecture and assumption ... and you know what happens when you... "A S S U M E"  ;)

[Inkidu]

...what wars has Norway started since America was founded?

Fine if Norway wants to ridicule us go for it, but I haven't heard anything.

[Vekseid]

Fine if Norway wants to ridicule us go for it, but I haven't heard anything.

Except for the topic of this thread? O_o

[OldSchoolGamer]

I think it's pretty safe to say that Obama's Nobel was more a political statement than a recognition of Obama's accomplishments to date...because the list of said accomplishments, excepting becoming the first U.S. President of African descent, is rather thin and unimpressive (at least when measured against what other recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize can claim). 

However, I WILL say Obama's foreign policy is a refreshing change of pace from the "cowboy" brand of diplomacy Bush practiced.  He's treating the rest of the world like it actually matters...and at least one part of that world returned the favor big-time.  Oh, the conservatives are making a big deal of this--like Obama was out there actively vying for the prize--but quite frankly I'm not seeing what the American Right is bringing to the table, other than "don't do what Obama says."  (He tried to bring the Olympics to America, and look at the heat he got for actually getting off his duff to try and make that happen...)

[Callie Del Noire]

  (He tried to bring the Olympics to America, and look at the heat he got for actually getting off his duff to try and make that happen...)

I'm sorry that was a bit over the top for the president to do.. now the First Lady.. it's the sort of thing that would be expected of her. The president has a bunch of things that should have been addressed like..oh.. health care, the budget, ah.. the issues in the gulf. Affairs of State.

[Cythieus]

I'm sorry that was a bit over the top for the president to do.. now the First Lady.. it's the sort of thing that would be expected of her. The president has a bunch of things that should have been addressed like..oh.. health care, the budget, ah.. the issues in the gulf. Affairs of State.

Remember it was his home town up for the bid and he's not the first president to do that. I mean seriously, most of the complaining you're hearing is stuff that other presidents do and it gets ignored. People are being far too critical.

[Kate]

I just want to say ... that peace prize deserving or not... come to think of it  I think Obama deserves all adoration he gets.

Usually the world wants some scandal (his "connections" to extreme mulslim "terrorists" made me think ...oh you HAVE to be joking...

... but seriously I frankly don't think there any super scandal that is true of him when he is in office - heaps of small ones - sure... but major ones like ones previously - unlikely.

I think he has the means and drive (and support) to do things properly and doesn't really have time to chase Marilyn Munroes doing so (No need to with a first lady like that !)

Inviting Hilary Clinton into the position she has was one smart political move, having a sprinkling of republicans as advisors another one (not sure if that is still the case - correct me if im wrong). Hey for those up to date with american politics ...

is Hillary happy doing what she is doing ?

Is it a position Americans on average think suits her ?

[Chea]

I don't particularly care what foreigners think of my country because:

Europe makes us look like choir boys.
Most American wars are spent cleaning up someone else's mess. (I.E. WWI, WW2, Vietnam formerly known as French Indochina.)

Everyone hates big brother as far as I'm concerned, and don't get me wrong, I like Europe and the rest of the world for the most part but I don't think people with a more violent history have the right to ridicule a country over nine or so wars. Most of the lasting very short amounts of time, and very rarely America's fault. Just a little historical perspective.

What are you talking about? Neither in WW1 nor WW2 was the USA "cleaning up someone else's mess", in WW1 a German unterseeboot sunk the British cruiseship Lusitania which had Americans onboard, and in WW2 the Japanese Empire attacked Pearl Harbor! The Vietnam War on the other hand we no business going there, we weren't attacked.

Europe has been in the civilization business ( in the european sense of the term) centuries before the USA was thought of, The USA is a noob compared to the old world. The USA has only existed only 233 years while Europe and the Old World have been at it for millenia

[Cythieus]

If by civilized business you mean Imperialism and hollowing out nearby countries for resources and slaves, then that's not much to brag about. Much Europes existence was spent in the Dark Ages too.

It's really hard to down on other countries and groups for what they're doing without looking back to the past. The US might be a very young country, but its accomplished a lot in its time here.

[Jude]

I'm sorry that was a bit over the top for the president to do.. now the First Lady.. it's the sort of thing that would be expected of her. The president has a bunch of things that should have been addressed like..oh.. health care, the budget, ah.. the issues in the gulf. Affairs of State.

He wasn't just trying to bring the Olympics to Chicago, he was trying to bring them to the United States.

This point cannot be emphasized enough:  Chicago was the only place in the US under consideration.  It wasn't like he was trying to take it away from anywhere else in the US.  It was Chicago in the US or somewhere outside of the US.

Getting the Olympics here would help the economy too.

[Oniya]

I think he has the means and drive (and support) to do things properly and doesn't really have time to chase Marilyn Munroes doing so (No need to with a first lady like that !)

Although Jackie wasn't anything to pooh-pooh either.  ;)

[Sasha]

Normally I never interact in political or religious conversations ...but to be quite honest this thread struck a nerve in me. I am a republican for the most part is how I have been voting in my later years it seems. Started out a democrat when i was younger the libertarian ideals were much more appealing I think. Either way , I do try and judge each candidate that is running on their platform and what they can bring to the table along with ...can they actually do it .

Obama brought a lot of good ideas to the table ..I think he had alot of  sound commitments and a good deal of ambition and empowerment behind him. He did motivate many to just actually VOTE ...and has taken what we call a minority "the race card " and given a significance to the American dream. Even a black man can succeed and become the president of the United States. That is saying alot ...especially since i live in a rural area and there is not a black skinned human within 50 miles of me in any direction.

I don't agree on many of his policies ..however he is the president and I do try and support him and pray for him. I wouldn't want the job. I age fast enough just trying to get through figuring out how to put food on my table and keep my nose above the rising cost of everything.

Has he earned the Nobel Peace prize ...no not in my book. Even he admitted in his own speech that he had not done anything to deserve it . Though turning down what 1.4 million kind of hard to do even for one that fires CEO's of the Auto Industry , rebukes obnoxious commission payments out to those that work for financial institutes and set up Czars over industries that only report to him, forgetting about the media that is curtailed when they catch him in a falsehood.

Giving out an award for what you hope to accomplish .. inspire to accomplish ....and may be capable of doing ...is rather idiotic. Though I did find Huckabee ..in his joke session amusing . I mean to quote him as best I can ..."So even if your a slacker at work .....not an issue go ask your boss for a raise based on what you actually might be able to do if you ever decided to live up to the potential you have in you, hell you might be able to show up for work on time , stay over , work through a few breaks ...outdo the quota for the week. It is possible you grow out of being lazy and doing what gets you by so your not fired and get to that paycheek at the end of the week. I am sure everyone will increase their earnings on this merit alone . "

Smiles ...I have vented , still sitting here watching now to see how many of those promises he talked about will actually take place and sincerely looking forward to these peace movements about to bud into existence from his encouragement. God only knows I feel safer knowing its just around the corner .

Enjoy your day ..it is what you make it.

Sasha

[Zorak]

  Though turning down what 1.4 million kind of hard to do even for one that fires CEO's of the Auto Industry , rebukes obnoxious commission payments out to those that work for financial institutes and set up Czars over industries that only report to him, forgetting about the media that is curtailed when they catch him in a falsehood.

Sasha,

I actually thought you had a well formed, unbiased reply until I saw this :(    You should note that the entire 1.4 million was immediately given to charity, not placed in his pockets.  So, whether one deserves it or not, the opportunity to take 1.4 million and give it to those in need seems silly NOT to do.  Those little digs really take away from what's otherwise a well thought out response. 

Everyone needs to remember - this is not a contest that our president "entered".  It's not anything he lobbied for, or asked for.  What happened was completely outside his control.  Those who don't believe he deserved it are being inappropriate by pointing their finger at him, or using it to make a political point.

Where your issue should be (if you disagree) is with the Nobel commission, and nowhere else.  There isn't anyone who could argue that our President handled the situation with anything less than the grace the office demanded.  Love him or hate him, this is not his issue.

And as an aside - anyone who believes the media is "curtailed" hasn't been watching FOX News ;) 

[Morven]

I must confess that all I thought of when I heard of it was that he'd won the "Thank goodness George W. Bush is gone!" award.

[Zorak]

I must confess that all I thought of when I heard of it was that he'd won the "Thank goodness George W. Bush is gone!" award.

You're not the only one :)   SNL had a great skit with Obama doing a speech where he said something like "All I've really done is 'not be George W. Bush', and I haven't been George W. Bush for only about 9 and 1/2 months! "

[Rhapsody]

The Commission doesn't always give out the prize as a reward for something groundbreaking.  Sometimes, they give it out when they think that the current trend of behaviour has been interrupted enough to warrant reinforcement and encouragement.  Obama's not the first guy who's Nobel win has been questioned, and as long as that prize is being handed out, he won't be the last.

For instance: Henry Kissinger won the award in '73 for his work towards ending US involvement in Vietnam and correct policy errors there.  Not bad, probably deserving.  But the fact that he was implicated as being a driving force behind not only the escalation of America's war policy when it came to Vietnam AS WELL AS selling out democracy and civil rights in foreign countries in order to support right-wing dictators in order to further the Cold War probably should have disqualified him from the prize to begin with.

[Callie Del Noire]

The Commission doesn't always give out the prize as a reward for something groundbreaking.  Sometimes, they give it out when they think that the current trend of behaviour has been interrupted enough to warrant reinforcement and encouragement.  Obama's not the first guy who's Nobel win has been questioned, and as long as that prize is being handed out, he won't be the last.

For instance: Henry Kissinger won the award in '73 for his work towards ending US involvement in Vietnam and correct policy errors there.  Not bad, probably deserving.  But the fact that he was implicated as being a driving force behind not only the escalation of America's war policy when it came to Vietnam AS WELL AS selling out democracy and civil rights in foreign countries in order to support right-wing dictators in order to further the Cold War probably should have disqualified him from the prize to begin with.

True but also look at who does the selection of the recipient of the peace prize. Politicians from the Norwegian Parliment.. so they have an agenda like any other politician.

[Zorak]

True but also look at who does the selection of the recipient of the peace prize. Politicians from the Norwegian Parliament.. so they have an agenda like any other politician.

Yeah but... but... they're Norwegians... I mean, I spend a LOT of time in Minnesota, and I have to be honest, I've never seen a bigger collection of "warm-fuzzy-do-good-soft-kitten-loving-golden-rule-following-family-minded" people in my entire life !

* Z brings up his shields, ready for a barrage of Norwegian-sourced anti-stereotype lectures, and hopes that any Norwegians who happen to be reading realize that he's meant what he's said in the very nicest way and was only trying to inject a little levity into an otherwise serious discussion... *

[Oniya]

Yeah but... but... they're Norwegians... I mean, I spend a LOT of time in Minnesota, and I have to be honest, I've never seen a bigger collection of "warm-fuzzy-do-good-soft-kitten-loving-golden-rule-following-family-minded" people in my entire life !

Then how do you explain lutefisk?

[Morven]

Then how do you explain lutefisk?

Originally, hard times.  More recently, tradition.  Possibly, a sick sado-masochistic urge.

[Zorak]

Then how do you explain lutefisk?

Well... there's no accounting for taste... but to a Norwegian, I'd suppose it falls under the "warm-fuzzy" category?  I'm fairly certain about that, since when you run the spell checker, "lutefisk" corrects to "lovesick"...

As another little aside here, I convinced my wife to have smörgåsbord at the Norwegian pavilion in Epcot.  I was seriously loving the 250 varieties of herring, while all she would touch was noodles and Swedish meatballs with gravy...  Seems the only Norwegian food she likes is what comes from the cafe' at Ikea...

[Morven]

Mmm, fish.  Just not lutefisk, OK?  I'll even do the rollmops and stuff, just not those.

[Inkidu]

Well I've often heard (South Park made it widely know) that Norway is Europe's Canada, and Canada fought in WWI, WWII, and the very start of Vietnam. So Norway has some dirty little wartime skeletons I'm sure.

Switzerland is the only one I've never seen in a war, and that's because people need a place to put their money.

[Zorak]

We've never seen France in a war either  ;)

Hey... as long as we're being ethnically incorrect...

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
A: Unknown... it's never been tried...

* Z switches his shield to "France" mode, and begins dodging bullets... He really has nothing against the French either, he just happens to have a collection of stupid jokes looking for an outlet... *

[Inkidu]

We've never seen France in a war either  ;)

Hey... as long as we're being ethnically incorrect...

Q: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
A: Unknown... it's never been tried...

* Z switches his shield to "France" mode, and begins dodging bullets... He really has nothing against the French either, he just happens to have a collection of stupid jokes looking for an outlet... *

Yeah, even Napoleon Bonaparte, was Corsican... which has always been heavily Italian. In fact, he hated French cooking so much, he brought in his Italian chef... which as it turns out cooked French.

"No French man has ever won a war for France." -Unknown. 

[thebobmaster]

Yeah, even Napoleon Bonaparte, was Corsican... which has always been heavily Italian. In fact, he hated French cooking so much, he brought in his Italian chef... which as it turns out cooked French.

"No French man has ever won a war for France." -Unknown. 

*cough cough* WWI... *cough* *cough*

[Inkidu]

*cough cough* WWI... *cough* *cough*

Um... they... they didn't win that one on their own. Not by a long shot.

*Holds up his history book like a shield*

[Sasha]

And as an aside - anyone who believes the media is "curtailed" hasn't been watching FOX News   

Actually ...FOX News is one of the few networks I do listen and or watch. Along with John  Glen Beck or whatever the man's name is my son in law watches now ...

You should note that the entire 1.4 million was immediately given to charity, not placed in his pockets.  So, whether one deserves it or not, the opportunity to take 1.4 million and give it to those in need seems silly NOT to do.

To be honest the last time I listen to anything regarding this they had just spoke of the dollar amount that was handed out . I have NO IDEA  what the man did with the money, if he gave it to charity ..wonderful. Hopefully some of it went to a food pantries since most of them are running out of food and supplies to hand out to families that are barely making it working minimum wage jobs or living on unemployment.


Since I am visiting family at this time and spending more time doing family things ...I could care less about the news. Though I will look into what charities he supported with the money as it might be interesting.

[thebobmaster]

Um... they... they didn't win that one on their own. Not by a long shot.

*Holds up his history book like a shield*

I misquoted. I was trying to quote the guy who said that we had never seen France in a war.

[Zorak]

I misquoted. I was trying to quote the guy who said that we had never seen France in a war.

Oh... that was me.  And I stand by it.  They've been IN wars, just never really "fought" in them  ::)

[Morven]

Just because French-bashing Just Bugs Me, I'll note that the French did a huge amount of fighting and a huge amount of the dying in that war; 1.4 million French military deaths, and an overall death toll of over 4% of their population.

While the 117,000 American deaths in World War I are not insignificant, they put the lie to the common US belief these days that the US just walked in and won everything. 

[Rhapsody]

Yeah, even Napoleon Bonaparte, was Corsican... which has always been heavily Italian.

... You know that Corsica is, strictly speaking, a part of France, right?

[Zorak]

Just because French-bashing Just Bugs Me, I'll note that the French did a huge amount of fighting and a huge amount of the dying in that war; 1.4 million French military deaths, and an overall death toll of over 4% of their population.

While the 117,000 American deaths in World War I are not insignificant, they put the lie to the common US belief these days that the US just walked in and won everything.

And like I said, I have a lot of respect for France, the people, and culture, and I don't minimize the grief they've gone through over the years.

As for the "common US belief" that we just "walked in and won everything", lets just say, that if we stayed on our side of the ocean, all of Europe would be speaking German right now.  So were we the deciding factor?  YES.  Was it mostly US and British troops that were slaughtered as they stormed the beaches at Normandy?  YES.  Was it the US military leadership and planning that lead to victory in WWII?  YES.  So pardon me if do support that statement, with the exception of "walked in".  I prefer, "marched in, and with great sacrifice" won everything ;)

* Z routes auxiliary warp power to the shields and re-enforces his structural integrity in preparation for the impending onslaught ... *

[HairyHeretic]

I believe folks that you're arguing two separate wars there.

[Morven]

Yes, Zorak; I was responding to previous posts about World War I.  There's little doubt that without US involvement in the Second World War, the map of Europe would have been rather different.  Britain may have kept its independence (that would largely depend on whether Britain still received material assistance from the US through Lend-Lease etc.) and if it had, would probably have eventually have had to sign a peace treaty with the German Empire.

Hitler would still have gotten bogged down in Russia, I think.  Without American assistance to Russia, they'd have had it a little harder, but I still don't think it'd have been a walk-over for the Germans.  Possibly it would have ended in a World War One-type bloody stalemate, or perhaps the Russians would eventually, with an even more incredible loss of life, eventually turned the Germans out of Russia.

Then there's the question as to whether the Pacific War would have still happened.  Quite likely.  Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor out of solidarity with the Germans; they did it to cripple US sea power until their conquests were a fait accompli.  Perhaps, if the Germans hadn't pre-emptively declared war on the US in solidarity with the Japanese, US public opinion might have decided against a European distraction.  Who knows.

History what-ifs are fun.

However, what I was ranting about was the American notion that, because the US was instrumental in turning the tide of the European war in 1942-45, the First World War must have just been a prequel with the same dynamics.  And that the rapid conquest of France in 1939 was entirely due to French cowardice, which must be a historic, and doubtless genetic, trait of the French.

What happened to France in World War 2 can be entirely explained by the experience of World War One, the devastation it wrought, the death toll and injuries it caused.  France wanted to make sure that any future war didn't occur within France itself, so it put all its resources into defensive works, e.g. the famous Maginot line, and encouraged its neighbors to do the same.  Unfortunately those smaller neighbors didn't quite fortify to the same degree. 

And once the Germans had bypassed the French defenses, it's not entirely surprising that France didn't decide to die rather than admit defeat, given the slaughter of the last War.  At that point, defeat was inevitable.  The French had had their fill of death, and unlike the British and Germans, the horrendous death toll of the First World War happened in their own country, not in some foreign land.  They got to see it first-hand, got to bury the dead and try and rebuild the destruction.

[Inkidu]

... You know that Corsica is, strictly speaking, a part of France, right?

Technically yes, but I got laughed at by a Corsican when I brought it up in a conversation at college.

[Vekseid]

Remember it was his home town up for the bid and he's not the first president to do that. I mean seriously, most of the complaining you're hearing is stuff that other presidents do and it gets ignored. People are being far too critical.

They're being critical of entirely the wrong things. Peace Prize? Chicago bid? Where are the complaints over Obama's continued support of the PATRIOT act? Of all of Obama's so-far broken promises, that is one of the worst. And as far as I can read it, the only one of

There is actually a wing of the Republican party (plus a few democrats) that does not consider the facts - or truth - to be relevant. Spurred on of course by a network that managed to successfully sue for the right to knowingly lie and call the result news (Jane Akre and Steve Wilson).

I hope Hoffman wins NY-23, there are a lot of conservative concerns I want to support, but they take a back seat to the need for transparency and economic recovery.

I don't agree on many of his policies ..however he is the president and I do try and support him and pray for him. I wouldn't want the job. I age fast enough just trying to get through figuring out how to put food on my table and keep my nose above the rising cost of everything.

You should watch this. She's now the Congressional Oversight Panel chair.

[Inkidu]

I thought politicians' promises were understood to be breakable? Good points to mention though.