Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

[Anteros Vox]

Sorry for your Loss.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I believe this would best be served in another area.  Debate over this topic, if there was to be any, would raise a lot of feelings and would be a sore subject.

[Callie Del Noire]

I'm too stunned to think of what to say... I agree with Pumpkin.. this is something that needs to be shelved for a bit.

[Star Safyre]

I'll only say this much: There are twenty dead children, and six adults gave their lives trying to protect them.  The topics of politics and debate shouldn't be the first reaction.  Or the second.

[HairyHeretic]

Human nature being what it is, I guarantee someone was using it to score points for their view within the hour.

[Star Safyre]

For me, it isn't the act themselves that lower my faith in humanity.  Mental illness happens, inhumanity to mankind happens, cruelty for one to another happens, evil happens.  One act by one person isn't enough for me to be sick at heart at the barren depths humans can sink to.  It's the cheapening of tragedy by tagging it to a political dogma or chest-pounding via hypothetical personal reactions that pains me.

[Moraline]

I just heard about this myself a short while ago.

My heart goes out to the families.

[Callie Del Noire]

Please close this thread.. I don't think we need to discuss it yet.

[Beguile's Mistress]

The purpose of the thread is to offer a place for condolences to the victims and their families and comfort for each other.  If that isn't possible for someone they are welcome to move on and not leave a post.

Debate the issues elsewhere please.

[TheGlyphstone]

Doesn't that make PR+C an odd place to put the thread, then?

[Oniya]

Moving it to a more appropriate venue.

[Scribbles]

This is just... sick. My heart goes out to the families, I can't imagine how they're feeling at this point.

[Pointless Digression]

I'm going to let The Onion handle this.

WASHINGTON—Following the fatal shooting this morning at a Connecticut elementary school that left at least 27 dead, including 20 small children, sources across the nation shook their heads, stifled a sob in their voices, and reported fuck everything. Just fuck it all to hell.

All of it, sources added.

“I’m sorry, but fuck it, I can’t handle this—I just can’t handle it anymore,” said Deborah McEllis, who added that “no, no, no, no, no, this isn’t happening, this can’t be real.” “Seriously, what the hell is this? What’s even going on anymore? Why do things like this keep happening?”

Continued McEllis, before covering her face with her hands, “Why?”

Despairing sources confirmed that the gunman, armed with a semiautomatic assault rifle—a fucking combat rifle, Jesus—walked into a classroom full of goddamned children where his mother was a teacher and, good God, if this is what the world is becoming, then how about we just pack it in and fucking give up, because this is no way to live.

I mean, honestly, all 315 million Americans confirmed.

“Well, I suppose we have to try to pick up the pieces and make some sort of sense of this tragedy and—you know what? Fuck it, I can’t do this,” said Connecticut resident Michael Zaleski, his remarks understandable given the circumstances, because, holy shit, what else can one say? “I’m sorry, but I can’t fucking do this. Can you? Can anyone?”

Witnesses said the gunman fired at least 100 rounds during his deadly rampage, which, according to children in the school—goddamnit, how? How? Twenty children. Dead. In a fucking school.

No. No, no, no.

“I just feel so [why does it even matter what this person said when no words can bring 20 dead kids back to life?]” said some person who, just like everyone else, is completely unable to process or handle any of this. “It’s awful. Just too awful to bear.”

Americans reported feelings of overwhelming disgust with whatever abhorrent bastard did this and with the world at large for ever allowing it to happen, as well as with politicians, with the NRA, and above all with their own pathetic goddamn selves, sitting in front of a fucking computer instead of doing fucking anything to help anyone—Christ, as if that were even fucking possible, as if anyone could change what happened, as if the same fucking bullshit isn’t going to keep happening again and again and fucking again before people finally decide it’s time to change the way we live, so what’s the point? What the hell is the goddamned point?

“I…” said Tom Miller, 27, after reading an article about the tragedy online. “I just…”

“…” he added.

At press time…screw it, there’s nothing else to say.

As a teacher of children, I've been trying to keep it together today. I went out to dinner, sat at the bar. Of course, one of the channels was news coverage from Connecticut. I couldn't. I lost it there in the goddamned restaurant.

[Ariel]

This makes me want to cry. Twenty innocent children! Children! The mere thought.. I can't take this anymore, you guys. This world is going to shit. I wouldn't be surprised if the world ends on the 21st. I mean, first the Batman shooting and now this.. I don't understand how someone can have a shitty day, pick up a gun, and say, "My life sucks, let's go ruin someone else's!"

No, no, no, no, no..

Twenty.. kids...

I'm fucking thisclosetocryingrightnow. Someone please tell me that son of a bitch was arrested. I do not want to start a political debate here, but he deserves the death penalty.

[Oniya]

Someone please tell me that son of a bitch was arrested. I do not want to start a political debate here, but he deserves the death penalty.

He's already gotten it.

[Ariel]

Right, I just got done reading an article and I just found that out.. Fucking coward.

[Izzie Aditi]

[Ariel]

*averts eyes*

[Izu]

God... There is this coverage on one of the online newspapers over here that had posted a little info about all the children and the adults who were killed and I lost it - the past couple of days were long and I was busy and I just stayed away from the news, even though I did hear about it, but now... I can't stop the tears. So many innocent souls. So many families... There will be so many unopened gifts this Christmas...  :'( :'(

[Branwen]

As a teacher of children, I've been trying to keep it together today. I went out to dinner, sat at the bar. Of course, one of the channels was news coverage from Connecticut. I couldn't. I lost it there in the goddamned restaurant.

That's okay.  I'm a teacher too, and we're people.  People get to cry.  People need to cry.

You're dealing with it, and you're going to deal with it for every kid you teach and who comes to you as a mentor.  You have to be strong Monday morning for them.  It's going to be a very tough day for you, for all of us who teach, but we're going to do it.  Our kids expect us to.

So we have to lose it now and just like everything else tuck it away while we're in the classroom.  That bell rings, we're contact point number one for help.  The bell rings again, kids are gone, we go find someone to be our help, our strength, or just sit alone in our dark, quiet rooms and let it go.

And there's no shame in that.  There's no shame in any emotion you feel right now or Monday or random times in the coming months or years.

The only thing I will not allow in my classes Monday is the mention of the murderer's name or discussion of him.  He is a nonentity, someone whom I will work to erase from my mind and from history.  I don't care if it's wrong or petty, he does not deserve a legacy other than forgetting.  I will work to remember one teacher, one child from it for the rest of my life.  I know I can't hold them all, but I can get two.

[fireandblood]

The police say they've found evidence of a "reason" behind it... But can there really be a reason behind something this truly awful? How can someone try to explain away the murder of innocent children and the teachers trying to protect them?

I think the only explanation is evil. Simple as that.

But you know what they say... hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure someone will find a reason to blame someone or something else. And that truly sickens me, because in trying to crack open the "mystery" of the murderer, everyone forgets the people who lost their lives and the families who will have to face a most empty Christmas this year.

Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Madeleine F. Hsu, 6
Catherine V. Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Aveille Richman, 6
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison N. Wyatt, 6
Rachel Davino, 29
Dawn Hochsprung, 47
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Lauren Russeau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto, 27

I won't forget them.

[Moraline]

"A man stabbed 22 primary school students in a knife attack in China today, officials said, the latest in a series of assaults."
~ http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/man-stabs-22-children-in-china-authorities-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=36843&NewsCatID=356   December/14/2012

This happened on the same day I think.

It just boggles the mind. Why the children?

[Ryven]

I think the only explanation is evil. Simple as that.

I'd like to think the man responsible was not in his right mind rather than simply a bad person.  It's a terrible tragedy.  However, facts are still coming in and still changing.  At first the media thought it was his brother, Ryan Lanza, instead of Adam.  They first thought he only used 2 pistols and left the assault rifle in the car, but now the media is saying he also used the rifle.  It's hard to believe much of anything the news is telling everyone about this because facts are continually changing.

This happened on the same day I think.

It just boggles the mind. Why the children?

There could have been any number of reasons for why, in the CT case, he shot them.  If it turns out he was abused which opens up a whole new side of the story, he could have seen himself as one of those kids and instead of allowing them to be subjected to the same thing, he decided, wrongfully, to 'save' them from the same abuse.  The problem with asking rational questions in a situation like this is that the source was acting in an irrational manner.

Why the children?  We don't know for certain yet.  I'd like to think he wasn't simply killing them out of cold blood.  I think there was just something deeper in him that had caused him to lose all sense of rational thought.  If that is the case, the question I want to know is why didn't someone notice something was wrong with him sooner?

[fireandblood]

I'd like to think the man responsible was not in his right mind rather than simply a bad person.  It's a terrible tragedy.  However, facts are still coming in and still changing.  At first the media thought it was his brother, Ryan Lanza, instead of Adam.  They first thought he only used 2 pistols and left the assault rifle in the car, but now the media is saying he also used the rifle.  It's hard to believe much of anything the news is telling everyone about this because facts are continually changing.

To me, it doesn't much matter whether or not he was a "bad person." To kill a child is an act of evil, plain and simple. While I see where you're coming from - and I definitely take mental illness and child abuse very seriously as causes behind acts such as this - it takes a certain kind of evil to look into a 6 year-old's face and make a decision to pull the trigger. And of course this is my opinion, and I'm not saying you aren't entitled to yours. I just can't fathom that anything other than evil can be behind an act such as this, no matter what the "intention" was to begin with.

I understand that the details are changing, but one fact remains the same - this person killed 27 human beings, including himself. And to me, no matter what he thought he was doing, that is an act that cannot be forgiven.

[Ryven]

To me, it doesn't much matter whether or not he was a "bad person." To kill a child is an act of evil, plain and simple. While I see where you're coming from - and I definitely take mental illness and child abuse very seriously as causes behind acts such as this - it takes a certain kind of evil to look into a 6 year-old's face and make a decision to pull the trigger. And of course this is my opinion, and I'm not saying you aren't entitled to yours. I just can't fathom that anything other than evil can be behind an act such as this, no matter what the "intention" was to begin with.

I understand that the details are changing, but one fact remains the same - this person killed 27 human beings, including himself. And to me, no matter what he thought he was doing, that is an act that cannot be forgiven.

I will agree to disagree.  I don't condone killing of innocent life, but I cannot make a judgment based solely on the fact that this specific act of killing a child is 'evil'.  Evil is a broad and subjective term.  One person's evil is another person's good.  I wont condemn the man completely because he killed people because I think there were other forces at work that may have helped lead him to this action.  He does bear blame.  Don't get me wrong, but I don't think he did this without being influenced by other forces.

[Trieste]

"I am Adam Lanza's mother" - a superb blog post about psychiatric care and coping with a mentally unbalanced child.

Edit: Hunted down the original post and changed the link. The blog is called the Anarchist Soccer Mom.

[Ryven]

"I am Adam Lanza's mother" - a superb blog post about psychiatric care and coping with a mentally unbalanced child.

You beat me to that, Trie.  I was about to post it. XD

[Trieste]

I found it very striking; I've read it three times now, letting it sink in.

[Ryven]

I agree.  I think it illustrates well what the loved ones of the mentally ill have to deal with on a routine basis, and it shows that mental illness does not just include the lower functioning, those suffering from depression, or bipolar disorders which get the most exposure.  I can't imagine having to hospitalize a loved one for fear they might harm you or themselves.  The worst part is that on some level, he can't help his reactions, in the case of the article.

[fireandblood]

That is a fantastic article. My little brother has a personality disorder... The way she wrote that post describes exactly what it's like to live with or be around someone who is mentally unstable. I love my brother to death and I would gladly die for him, and I stick up for him any time anyone says something negative about him even though he scares me. Do I blame him for his actions? No. Do I think he should be put in jail? Definitely not. If he went and did something horrible like this, would I still love him? Of course.

If he went into a school and killed twenty first graders, would I call his actions evil? Yes. I would.

[Ariel]

I don't know if I could love my brother after he did something truly terrible like his. I just don't see how a mental disorder, no matter how severe, can make someone pick up a gun and aim it on a child. I don't see what can compel someone to commit an atrocity this drastic.

[Pointless Digression]

That's okay.  I'm a teacher too, and we're people.  People get to cry.  People need to cry.

You're dealing with it, and you're going to deal with it for every kid you teach and who comes to you as a mentor.  You have to be strong Monday morning for them.  It's going to be a very tough day for you, for all of us who teach, but we're going to do it.  Our kids expect us to.

So we have to lose it now and just like everything else tuck it away while we're in the classroom.  That bell rings, we're contact point number one for help.  The bell rings again, kids are gone, we go find someone to be our help, our strength, or just sit alone in our dark, quiet rooms and let it go.

And there's no shame in that.  There's no shame in any emotion you feel right now or Monday or random times in the coming months or years.

The only thing I will not allow in my classes Monday is the mention of the murderer's name or discussion of him.  He is a nonentity, someone whom I will work to erase from my mind and from history.  I don't care if it's wrong or petty, he does not deserve a legacy other than forgetting.  I will work to remember one teacher, one child from it for the rest of my life.  I know I can't hold them all, but I can get two.

Thank you, Branwen. I've read this five or six times since it went up. It helps. I'm taking this harder than I have any other horrible story in years. I haven't been this affected by tragedy since goddamned September 11th. It's...

...

Yeah. It's. 

[Ryven]

I don't know if I could love my brother after he did something truly terrible like his. I just don't see how a mental disorder, no matter how severe, can make someone pick up a gun and aim it on a child. I don't see what can compel someone to commit an atrocity this drastic.

The thing about mental disorders is that many of them compromise judgment and rational thought.  How could he point a gun at a child and shoot?  He was disturbed and mentally unstable.  It's the same reason why animal abuse, domestic violence, and self harm can occur.  The only reason that makes a child victim worse in many people's eyes is that they are defenseless and in many ways innocent because they have little experience of the world and are just beginning to try to make sense of things.  To me, it would be a tragedy if he shot 20 children, 20 adults, or 20 elderly people, but that is simply my way of seeing things.

[Oniya]

Thank you, Branwen. I've read this five or six times since it went up. It helps. I'm taking this harder than I have any other horrible story in years. I haven't been this affected by tragedy since goddamned September 11th. It's...

...

Yeah. It's.

*hugs all her teacher friends*

*then hugs all her parent friends*

*then hugs everyone else*

[Aiden]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/

Link to an article, I have been staying clear of the news this weekend because the media are a bunch of scumbags and I am not ignoring what happened...I don't want to be reminded every 5 minutes how many children were killed, or see the interviews of children (and adults/families etc) who will be forever scarred by this tragedy.

Then you hear that Westboro plans on protesting...then Anymous kicks in...(You guys can decide how you feel about it all)

[Ariel]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/

Link to an article, I have been staying clear of the news this weekend because the media are a bunch of scumbags and I am not ignoring what happened...I don't want to be reminded every 5 minutes how many children were killed, or see the interviews of children (and adults/families etc) who will be forever scarred by this tragedy.

Then you hear that Westboro plans on protesting...then Anymous kicks in...(You guys can decide how you feel about it all)

I can't even.. That pisses me off so much. That happened in my town at a guy's funeral, he had died while serving the country. These people dare to protest... at a fucking funeral, nontheless...

Excuse me, I need to go puke.

[NataliaReno]

You know what... I normally wouldn't agree to something Anonymous has done but..... GOOD. If they have done such a thing. And hopefully that petition does get signed and put into effect. For protesting a child's funeral? For what? *smh* Anyway, new evidence has been found that the mother of Adam Lanze was a gun afficionado (sp) and brought her sons out to shoot I think the article said within the last 4 years. So the mother is at fault as well. She also knew about his problems and it seems he never got help. She was even going to follow him to whatever school he attended if he indeed was going to go somewhere.

I live here in CT, about an hour away and today (12/16) some dumbass kid made a threat to go to one of the schools and do the same thing. And this is in my own town. I dont know if it was a prank or not but it was stupid. Whoever it was has been aprehended or something but I dont know if it was for attention because the president was going to be here or what.

My heart goes to all involved. Something that never should have happened. Christmas is never going to be the same to me knowing these children's lives were taken away much too early and especially at this time of the year. I cant even listen or sing Silent Night anymore without starting to get upset.

[Pointless Digression]

I want to read something in The Onion about a mass shooting during a Westboro Baptist protest—a shooting whose only victims are adult members of Westboro Baptist church: "President pauses to collect himself after dissolving into giggles at podium in White House Briefing Room, orders nation's flagpoles extended so that flags may be raised to one-and-half-staff..."

[Branwen]

Pointless Digression and every other one of you reading this who works with kids today,

Stay strong.  Stay strong for them and support them and love them.  They need us right now, even the cynical teenagers.  All weekend long they've likely been bombarded by media in one form or another, the social network sites they are on are bursting at the seams and some of them are scared and angry and worried and anything else you can name.  You are one of the safe, calm, trusted adults in their life who has their best welfare in mind and they know it.  They need you today.  Make it for them.

Then when that bell rings and you send them off, make it for you.  It's okay to let go when they're gone.  Use the catharsis of tears or anger or numbness to help you cope so you can be there again tomorrow for them.  I know that as soon as they are gone and I check on my fellow teachers, I plan to shut my door and put my head down and just let it all go.

Don't live in fear.  Be smart, be safe, but don't let this run your life or your classroom. 

Love the students, lead the students, teach them by example today as much by your lesson plan.

Hug them if allowed, and hug your fellow teachers and administration and staff.

[Branwen]

I want to make this available to those of you who will be around children and who might need resources today.  Read, consider, implement with caution and concern.  Most of these are .pdf files so consider that when clicking.

These are all from the National Child Traumatic Stress Network http://www.nctsn.org/

What and Who the NCTSN Is/Are

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Established by Congress in 2000, the National Child Traumatic Stress Network (NCTSN) brings a singular and comprehensive focus to childhood trauma. NCTSN’s collaboration of frontline providers, researchers, and families is committed to raising the standard of care while increasing access to services. Combining knowledge of child development, expertise in the full range of child traumatic experiences, and dedication to evidence-based practices, the NCTSN changes the course of children’s lives by changing the course of their care.

The Network is funded by the Center for Mental Health Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, US Department of Health and Human Services through a congressional initiative: the Donald J. Cohen National Child Traumatic Stress Initiative. As of November 2009 the Network comprises 60 members. Affiliate members—sites that were formerly funded—and individuals currently or previously associated with those sites continue to be active in the Network as affiliates.

Trauma Facts for Educators 
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/CTTE_Educators.pdf&nid=84

Understanding Child Traumatic Stress: a Parent's Guide
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/ctte_parents.pdf&nid=84

Psychological and Behavioral Impact of Trauma by Student Grade Level:

Preschool
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/preschool_children.pdf&nid=84

Elementary
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/ctte_elementary.pdf&nid=84

Middle School
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/ctte_middleschool.pdf&nid=84

High School
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/ctte_highschool.pdf&nid=84

Suggestions for Educators
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/CTTE_Educators.pdf&nid=84

Self Care for Educators  (Don't forget about yourself)
  http://www.nctsn.org/sites/all/modules/pubdlcnt/pubdlcnt.php?file=/sites/default/files/assets/pdfs/CTTE_SelfCare.pdf&nid=84

[Ryven]

You know what... I normally wouldn't agree to something Anonymous has done but..... GOOD. If they have done such a thing. And hopefully that petition does get signed and put into effect. For protesting a child's funeral? For what? *smh* Anyway, new evidence has been found that the mother of Adam Lanze was a gun afficionado (sp) and brought her sons out to shoot I think the article said within the last 4 years. So the mother is at fault as well. She also knew about his problems and it seems he never got help. She was even going to follow him to whatever school he attended if he indeed was going to go somewhere.

I live here in CT, about an hour away and today (12/16) some dumbass kid made a threat to go to one of the schools and do the same thing. And this is in my own town. I dont know if it was a prank or not but it was stupid. Whoever it was has been aprehended or something but I dont know if it was for attention because the president was going to be here or what.

My heart goes to all involved. Something that never should have happened. Christmas is never going to be the same to me knowing these children's lives were taken away much too early and especially at this time of the year. I cant even listen or sing Silent Night anymore without starting to get upset.

The mother is at fault for not getting him help with his problems, not for taking him shooting and teaching him how to use a gun.  That's like thinking someone who teaches another how to drive is at fault for their driving student running over and killing people should they choose to do so.  I know several gun owners who have yet to kill anyone and are well versed in how to use their weapons.

[Moraline]

Support this government petition: 

Legally recognize Westboro Baptist Church as a hate group.

This group has been recognized as a hate group by organizations, such as The Southern Poverty Law Center, and has repeatedly displayed the actions typical of hate groups.

Their actions have been directed at many groups, including homosexuals, military, Jewish people and even other Christians. They pose a threat to the welfare and treatment of others and will not improve without some form of imposed regulation.

Sign Here:  http://wh.gov/RI5h   ((Source: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov ))

Here is one of the many reasons why:

"Westboro will picket Sandy Hook Elementary School to sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment."
Via Twitter and reposted on NewsArticle: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/

[Callie Del Noire]

Actually I'm more of the opinion they are a scam artist group as they SUE many of the folks whose funerals they picket. That is.. the family tries to restrain them..they sue them. They have done it several times. Reading through Nate Phelp's blog has been educational too. He's the 'black sheep' of the family who has accused his father of abusing him and his mother on numerous occasions.

They are looking for BIG visiblity media events that will bring them into conflict with others. Also notice that MANY of the Phelps are lawyers, including the daughters who do most of the speaking now.

[Oniya]

Hit 'em where it hurts.  In their wallets.  This group is no more a church than my Aunt Glorianna's bridge club (although the bridge club is infinitely nicer).  Get the IRS on them, and get rid of their 'religious exemption'.

[Callie Del Noire]

Hit 'em where it hurts.  In their wallets.  This group is no more a church than my Aunt Glorianna's bridge club (although the bridge club is infinitely nicer).  Get the IRS on them, and get rid of their 'religious exemption'.

Agreed but they've walked a very close line to avoid any appearance of using church funds for things other than their 'crusade' and paying the church officers (Mostly Phelps or associated families) so they get to keep it for now. I know that a LOT of the civil liberties folks who supported their cases would LOVE to be able to wash their hands of them if they could.

[Oniya]

Their 'crusade'.  Is that all that makes them a church?  Calling it a 'crusade'?  They do no charitable works, they are completely exclusive, and their so-called 'crusade' is nothing but spewing hate and invective.

[Trieste]

If that's enough to get tax exempt status, I am going to officially form a crusade to drink my way through Europe. That counts as a writeoff, right? I'm taking members...

[Oniya]

I like Trieste's crusade better.  Are we talking beers, wines, or liqueurs?

[Trieste]

Well, the Prophet did declare "beer before liquor, never sicker" and clearly that, uh, applies to liqueurs, so liqueurs for breakfast, beer for dinner and wine whenever the hell we feel like it.

Yep.

[Pointless Digression]

Are we talking beers, wines, or liqueurs?

Yes.

[Callie Del Noire]

I like Trieste's crusade better.  Are we talking beers, wines, or liqueurs?

I'd whole heartedly support it.. but keep her away from my Maker's Mark.

[Sarena]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/

Link to an article, I have been staying clear of the news this weekend because the media are a bunch of scumbags and I am not ignoring what happened...I don't want to be reminded every 5 minutes how many children were killed, or see the interviews of children (and adults/families etc) who will be forever scarred by this tragedy.

Then you hear that Westboro plans on protesting...then Anymous kicks in...(You guys can decide how you feel about it all)

PLEASE NOTE:  What I am about to say is NOT directed at Aiden or anyone else here.

As a Christian who believes in God and believes that Jesus died for my sins, LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, Westboro Baptist Church and their "protests" do NOT represent what Christianity is about.  Neither are the talking heads that will try to use this tragedy to further their agenda, whether it be gun control or God in public schools, an accurate representation of Christianity.  This is NOT what Christianity is about and it sickens me in ways I can never explain to see this. 

My heart breaks for the families that lost loved ones in the Connecticut shooting and the stabbing in China that was linked earlier in this thread.  My heart will never understand how a person can pick up a weapon and take the life of an innocent child.

As a mother, I have hugged my children a little bit tighter this weekend and prayed a little harder when I took them to school today.  As a mother, I am thankful and grateful for teachers like Victoria Soto.  She is one of the ones I choose to remember, not the gunman. 

[Oniya]

As a Christian who believes in God and believes that Jesus died for my sins, LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, Westboro Baptist Church and their "protests" do NOT represent what Christianity is about.  Neither are the talking heads that will try to use this tragedy to further their agenda, whether it be gun control or God in public schools, an accurate representation of Christianity.  This is NOT what Christianity is about and it sickens me in ways I can never explain to see this. 

I'm pretty sure that damned few people associate the Westboros with any branch of Christ's teachings.  Even on Facebook, that hive of scum and villainy, I've never seen anyone speak out in their favor.

[Branwen]

Pointless Digression, did you make it through the day okay?  Are you coping as well as you want to?

[Pointless Digression]

I did, actually. I had to put on my discipline pants 4th period when two boys decided to start a little shoving contest outside my classroom door, and just the normalcy of that kind of snapped me out of my funk.

I'm not saying that I couldn't use a drink right about now, but I made it through the day, kept my shit together, and managed to teach the kids how to make food webs.

[Branwen]

I'm so proud of you!  Good job!  And the kids absolutely benefited from your example and approach to things.  If I taught next door to you, I'd give you the biggest hug right now.

[Oniya]

I did, actually. I had to put on my discipline pants 4th period when two boys decided to start a little shoving contest outside my classroom door, and just the normalcy of that kind of snapped me out of my funk.

I'm not saying that I couldn't use a drink right about now, but I made it through the day, kept my shit together, and managed to teach the kids how to make food webs.

Food webs?  Does that involve spaghetti noodles and string cheese?  ;D

[Iniquitous]

Anyway, new evidence has been found that the mother of Adam Lanze was a gun afficionado (sp) and brought her sons out to shoot I think the article said within the last 4 years. So the mother is at fault as well.

As a person who owns and enjoys firearms as well as firmly believes in the 2nd Amendment, this statement makes me twitch. Violently. The mother is most assuredly NOT at fault just because she owned guns and may or may not have taken her son to the gun range. I cannot even believe someone would blame a victim for the crime!

I am about sick of seeing people scream for more gun control laws, scream that it's the guns that's the problem and now blame a victim when the problem is not guns at all. It's our society's refusal to treat mental illness as a disease, it's our society's refusal to accept that everyone deserves to have access to care - all forms of medical care, it's our society's shunning of those that have mental disorders that's the flipping problem.

[Pointless Digression]

Food webs?  Does that involve spaghetti noodles and string cheese?  ;D

Nah. Just extruding silk strands from their spinnerets and weaving them into the prerequisite shapes.

[Trieste]

You... have a class full of spiderlets? That must be adorable!

[Sho]

As a person who owns and enjoys firearms as well as firmly believes in the 2nd Amendment, this statement makes me twitch. Violently. The mother is most assuredly NOT at fault just because she owned guns and may or may not have taken her son to the gun range. I cannot even believe someone would blame a victim for the crime!

I am about sick of seeing people scream for more gun control laws, scream that it's the guns that's the problem and now blame a victim when the problem is not guns at all. It's our society's refusal to treat mental illness as a disease, it's our society's refusal to accept that everyone deserves to have access to care - all forms of medical care, it's our society's shunning of those that have mental disorders that's the flipping problem.

I think the general idea isn't so much (at least as I've understood it) that she took her child shooting - I think plenty of people recognize that as a perfectly reasonable past-time in a neighborhood where hunting is prevalent. I think the major issue is that she took her mentally ill and aggressive child shooting. Not to say that all mentally ill people should be locked away from firearms, but...if your child is aggressive, unstable (which, from the 'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother' post I'm assuming is the sort of child Adam Lanza actually was), and prone to fits of rage...then you don't teach him weapons skills that can only aid him. If he already doesn't know how to control himself, why have him armed and out of control? It seems like a serious lack of judgement on the mother's part - that being said, there's no excuse for what happened to her.

Also, mental illness treatments and their availability to families needs to be increased. Obviously. I'm not saying that that isn't the case - I think it needs to happen, and I hope that it does, in a huge way.

Though, as far as the whole gun control issue...I understand rifles (hunting, protection from wildlife, etc) and I understand handguns (self-defense, home protection, etc.). I fail to understand how, in any concievable way, a semi-automatic weapon or any weapon that has one of those huge clips with more than...say, ten...bullets is necessary. If you can't hit whatever you're shooting at with ten bullets, you're probably dead anyway. It feels dangerous and unnecessary to me to have weapons that large on the streets, so I do agree with the new bill one of the senators (it's a woman...can't remember her name) is proposing where large-clip guns and semi-automatic weapons would be proactively banned.

Anyways. Not to digress too much.

This whole thing has me sick - I haven't even been able to write out a coherent thought until now. It horrifies me that this could have happened to so many people, particularly children who had barely had the chance to live. Now their families will be grieving over Christmas, and then to think of those teachers sacrificing themselves...there aren't even words for it. I'm just glad to see that teachers like Pointless Digression are helping people make sense of this tragedy.

[Ariel]

As a person who owns and enjoys firearms as well as firmly believes in the 2nd Amendment, this statement makes me twitch. Violently. The mother is most assuredly NOT at fault just because she owned guns and may or may not have taken her son to the gun range. I cannot even believe someone would blame a victim for the crime!

I am about sick of seeing people scream for more gun control laws, scream that it's the guns that's the problem and now blame a victim when the problem is not guns at all. It's our society's refusal to treat mental illness as a disease, it's our society's refusal to accept that everyone deserves to have access to care - all forms of medical care, it's our society's shunning of those that have mental disorders that's the flipping problem.

Like they say, guns don't hurt people, people hurt people..

[Vekseid]

I have removed a post a reply dragging religion into this discussion. I'd like the politics (gun control discussion) to stop too, please. Start another thread in PROC if that is what you want.

Thank you.

[Sabby]

Sorry, I saw other posts and links to news stories like this, I thought it would be okay.

[Vekseid]

It got moved to B&U and then Off Topic because we wanted to not have that in this thread.

Thank you.

[Sabby]

I meant here o.o Scroll up a few posts and there's a link to a Westboro story... I saw that and assumed it was allowed. I was wrong. My bad Dx

As for the story itself... I haven't heard much, just reactions through Twitter, and a lot of conflicting stories as to the why.

[Vekseid]

I know.

Stop.

It is not a question. It is not an invitation to debate.

It is a requirement stated by the owner of a community who appreciates the need for simple expressions of respect for the dead.

I find it annoying enough that the killer's name is even mentioned. Some discussion is going to happen. I acknowledge this. You chose to cross a line with the tone of your post and I do not appreciate that. Your hostility to religion in general has been noted elsewhere. It does not belong in Off Topic at all, much less this thread.

Enough.

Thank you.

[Trieste]

I think there is a miscommunication between the two of you that needs to be taken up in PM, please.  :-\

Regarding the 'why'... you know, the Aurora shooter is still alive and they still haven't gotten a solid 'why' out of him. I doubt they'll get a 'why' out of the dead shooter in this case. I'm not entirely sure it matters - knowing why doesn't particularly help anything, and I'm not sure it will help prevent future incidents. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

But the more this happens, the less I find myself concerned with the why, and I find myself more concerned with how. More specifically, how in the world someone can be prevented from forcing their way into another school. -_-

[gaggedLouise]

I think there is a miscommunication between the two of you that needs to be taken up in PM, please.  :-\

Regarding the 'why'... you know, the Aurora shooter is still alive and they still haven't gotten a solid 'why' out of him. I doubt they'll get a 'why' out of the dead shooter in this case. I'm not entirely sure it matters - knowing why doesn't particularly help anything, and I'm not sure it will help prevent future incidents. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

But the more this happens, the less I find myself concerned with the why, and I find myself more concerned with how. More specifically, how in the world someone can be prevented from forcing their way into another school. -_-

Surely not by setting up armed police and turnstile gates around every school to make sure guns don't get in? (I've seen that kind of thing being used at schools in immigrant suburbs in France: it might work but it also makes the school feel akin to a jail).

After all, even if it became harder to bring in major firearms, some jerks would still be able to bring in bombs or pistols.

[Sabby]

I remember reading the guy just blew out a window and strode in. I'm not sure there's much metal detectors and frisks and the like can do for that kind of thing. Those are all preventative measures.

[Oniya]

The little Oni's school has ID badges that are checked when they walk in.  The doors are locked, and anyone visiting the school at other than the normal admission and dismissal times (when there's a faculty member on duty) has to ring a security buzzer and get let in by the office.  There's a policeman - I'm not sure if he's on-duty, off-duty, or former - on the grounds at all times.  The students are not allowed to carry bags with them to class, with the exception of mesh gym bags (that can be seen through).  I'm going to have to check again on the purse policy, since she's getting to the age when some of her classmates may be reaching menarche - I'd rather not put her through the contortions of getting excused to the bathroom, discovering she needs supplies, and having to go back to her locker (the gym locker room has a vending machine, but not the regular ladies' room) and then back to the bathroom.  If she can't have even a purse with her...

[Sabby]

Geez... that seems bleak but also kind of necessary.

[Ariel]

The little Oni's school has ID badges that are checked when they walk in.  The doors are locked, and anyone visiting the school at other than the normal admission and dismissal times (when there's a faculty member on duty) has to ring a security buzzer and get let in by the office.  There's a policeman - I'm not sure if he's on-duty, off-duty, or former - on the grounds at all times.  The students are not allowed to carry bags with them to class, with the exception of mesh gym bags (that can be seen through).  I'm going to have to check again on the purse policy, since she's getting to the age when some of her classmates may be reaching menarche - I'd rather not put her through the contortions of getting excused to the bathroom, discovering she needs supplies, and having to go back to her locker (the gym locker room has a vending machine, but not the regular ladies' room) and then back to the bathroom.  If she can't have even a purse with her...

Has it always been like that, or just recently?

[gaggedLouise]

Oniya - I can see the logic for sure, but it's depressing if it has to be like that. When I was in eq.of high school we'd relocate gym classes during the warmer season to an outdoor field/amateur athletics place in another part of the city, a mile from the school, as did (and still do) many other schools in town. We'd ride there on bike and though the place was booked for school use at those times and ringed by some lightweight fences, anyone of the students' families could have come in if something urgent had happened, there were no formal checkpoints. Technically anyone fit enough could have climbed in over one of the higher fences at the back with a gun too, there was no patrolling around there. It's too bad if kids can't even spend time in the open air sometimes during a school day, outside of the school grounds, without being strictly guarded.

I remember reading the guy just blew out a window and strode in. I'm not sure there's much metal detectors and frisks and the like can do for that kind of thing. Those are all preventative measures.

Exactly!

[Ariel]

It's too bad if kids can't even spend time in the open air sometimes during a school day, outside of the school grounds, without being strictly guarded.

Our kids can't go anywhere without the constant threat of danger hanging over their heads.

[gaggedLouise]

@Uprising: I see, but that's an outrageous condition!

[Branwen]

Pointless Digression and other teachers reading this, be prepared to talk about it today or this week in a faculty meeting.  Last night every school board around here that met had school safety as their number one agenda item.  Likely your principals and school police officers received directives to review their campus' safety plan and speak with the staff about it.  I want you to be aware that this meeting is likely to happen, it's likely to be emotional and it's likely to bring to mind some horrific mental pictures for you.  It could also be scary as people point out gaps in your building's access security.  Pointing out a problem doesn't mean it's going to happen.  It just represents an opportunity to fix the problem.

Remember, you're a person and have the right to feel however you do.  If you can model calm and empathy and support for your peers, please do so.  They need it.  If you are the one who needs calming and reassurance, please seek it.  You need it.  And don't be reluctant to walk out if you're going to lose it and don't want anyone other than your closest school friends to know.  There's no shame, there's no wrong in being you.

[Oniya]

Has it always been like that, or just recently?

Well, we moved into this district this year.  Her last school didn't have it, but we were out in the middle of nowhere - like, cows and cornfields on the way to school nowhere.  They seem to have the system down pat, so it's obviously been in place for at least a few years.  When I was in high school, there was a light chain fence around the school grounds (but there was a place in the back where the chain had been separated from the frame work), and my sister's high school had a 'problem' of kids sneaking off school property at lunch to go to the McDonalds across the divided four-lane.  In intermediate and elementary school, we didn't even really have fences, except to mark the ends of the parking lots.

[Teo Torriatte]

I still really don't know what to say about this... I just wish they wouldn't tell us his name or show his picture. I don't think he should get any recognition whatsoever. It should all about the victims.

[Ryven]

Ignoring him wont make the problem go away.  I wish he wouldn't be immortalized because of the way the media portrays him, but I think he should be examined in order to understand and prevent future incidents.  Yes, he committed a horrible act, but turning a blind eye to him doesn't solve anything.  You don't have to be happy, and you certainly don't have to like him.  I'm hoping that from this at least some good can come so the victims didn't die without meaning.  If changes do come, I am truly sad that anyone had to be hurt or killed for it to happen.  It's sad that we can never really see that something is truly wrong until something like this happens then we are reminded that we are all imperfect human beings (at least I hope we are).  It's not the fact that we are imperfect that is the problem though.  Instead, the problem is our ability to cope with our imperfections both personally and socially.  That is where we need change.

[Manoir]

It should all about the victims.

So true, Luna,and let this also keep in our minds the large picture:

Remember All the Children, Mr. President
Tue, 12/18/2012 - 14:22 — by Bill Quigley

Remember the 20 children who died in Newtown Connecticut.

Remember the 35 children who died in Gaza this month from Israeli bombardments.

Remember the 168 children who have been killed by US drone attacks in Pakistan since 2006.

Remember the 231 children killed in Afghanistan in the first 6 months of this year.

Remember the 400 other children in the US under the age of 15 who die from gunshot wounds each year.

Remember the 921 children killed by US air strikes against insurgents in Iraq.

Remember the 1,770 US children who die each year from child abuse and maltreatment.

Remember the 16,000 children who die each day around the world from hunger.

These tragedies must end.

Bill Quigley is a human rights lawyer and law professor at Loyola University New Orleans and Associate Director of the Center for Constitutional Rights.

[Trieste]

I have removed a post a reply dragging religion into this discussion. I'd like the politics (gun control discussion) to stop too, please. Start another thread in PROC if that is what you want.

Thank you.

[Pointless Digression]

Following up, my kids seem to be having an easier time dealing with this than I am. Ahhh, youth. So far, the biggest thing they're worried about is whether or not the world is going to end tomorrow. I told them that in the event of an apocalypse, they will still have to turn in their homework before the seas boil.

[Star Safyre]

Following up, my kids seem to be having an easier time dealing with this than I am. Ahhh, youth. So far, the biggest thing they're worried about is whether or not the world is going to end tomorrow. I told them that in the event of an apocalypse, they will still have to turn in their homework before the seas boil.

My students are reacting similiarly.  A few complained that the week before the end of the world was final exams week.  ::)

[Oniya]

My students are reacting similiarly.  A few complained that the week before the end of the world was final exams week.  ::)

Good grades will be required to participate in the Rapture!

[Ariel]

The victims and their families are still in my thoughts and prayers everyday. Lord, how I tear up everytime I think of this. It breaks my heart. It kills a part of my soul everytime something as atrocious as this happens, and the fact that it could happen to any one of us is a rude awakening. It's impossible to achieve world peace, but if I had just one wish..