To "British" RPers...

[GeekFury]

And madder than a bag of ferrets.

[Jude]

BNP = British Tea Party?

[HairyHeretic]

Worse

Up til recently only 'native anglo saxon british' (or something similar) could join their membership. They were forced to change that under EU Law (not that anyone else likely would want to join them).

One of their more interesting ideas is the repatriation of non anglo saxons back to whatever country they ethnically originated from. Doesn't matter if you were born in the UK, or indeed if your parents and grandparents were, if you're not their kind of British, back to the ancestral homeland with you, you immigrant scum!

I believe membership in their little clubhouse is illegal for police, army, and probably a bunch of other professions.

[auroraChloe]

Worse

Up til recently only 'native anglo saxon british' (or something similar) could join their membership. They were forced to change that under EU Law (not that anyone else likely would want to join them).

One of their more interesting ideas is the repatriation of non anglo saxons back to whatever country they ethnically originated from. Doesn't matter if you were born in the UK, or indeed if your parents and grandparents were, if you're not their kind of British, back to the ancestral homeland with you, you immigrant scum!

I believe membership in their little clubhouse is illegal for police, army, and probably a bunch of other professions.

are they often bald and tattooed with swastikas ?

[Oniya]

Never mind that both the Angles and the Saxons were immigrants.

[HairyHeretic]

are they often bald and tattooed with swastikas ?

I expect some are. It's the smarmy ones in suits you want to watch out for though.

Never mind that both the Angles and the Saxons were immigrants.

Now, don't go confusing the poor things with facts.

BBC News - BNP call for end to immigration from Muslim nations

Here, see for yourself

[Senti]

Give us a 'None of the Above' option I say.

My partner always makes his own box just for that, and many folks are doing that as a vote of no confidence so I am lead to believe. Yes it is a spoiled paper but it still must be counted.

I always vote as women have died for me to have that right.

And really dont get me started on the immigrants issue. I am not sure there are any 'pure bred ' Britons' anymore.

(My appologies if I missed points or jumped in.)

[Neroon]

I must admit, I miss the days when George Harrison bankrolled the Natural Law Party.  Those Party Political broadcasts of Yogic Flying were hilarious.

[Oniya]

I am not sure there are any 'pure bred ' Britons' anymore.

There aren't really pure-bred anythings any more, unless you're dealing with an extremely insular community.  It's what makes these ethnocentric groups really kind of pathetic.

[Stan']

The amazing thing is that the BNP won a handful of seats a little while ago.  It was mainly a protest vote, I'm guessing.

The thing is, some of their immigration policies actually are good ( many immigrants have been cheating the system for years under Labour, applying for child tax credits for kids that aren't even in this country being just one of them ), but it's spoiled by the racism and bigotry that they've piled on top of it.

It's came to the point in the United Kingdom, that any one can come over for a two week holiday, and start calling themselves "British".  The "British" nationality itself doesn't exist any more.

[Cheka Man]

If the BNP were not grossly racist Nazis/Facists, I'd seriously consider voting for them.However, I can't vote for a party with a lot of basicly evil ideas. Their evil ruins it for me.

[Neroon]

The amazing thing is that the BNP won a handful of seats a little while ago.  It was mainly a protest vote, I'm guessing.

The thing is, some of their immigration policies actually are good ( many immigrants have been cheating the system for years under Labour, applying for child tax credits for kids that aren't even in this country being just one of them ), but it's spoiled by the racism and bigotry that they've piled on top of it.

It's came to the point in the United Kingdom, that any one can come over for a two week holiday, and start calling themselves "British".  The "British" nationality itself doesn't exist any more.

Can I have your statistics for the emboldened assertion, please. Frankly, I don't believe it.  I'll agree that there are some immigrants who cheat the system, but without hard data that isn't tainted by party political interest, I'm going to treat this as I do the BNP lie about asylum seekers going to the top of housing waiting lists (look up the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act) as an assertion that is made so often that when you try to find where it started all you get are various repeats but no real evidence.

I would assert that no party which has xenophobia and racism as its foundation and lies as the basis for its policies can produce anything worthwhile.

[Stan']

It's not a BNP lie.

It's a well-known fact.  Glasgow is immigrant central in Scotland, and there's tons of them exploiting the system.  And just go to Sighthill.  It's a shit-hole, for one reason.  They come over here, get free houses by giving their sob stories ( "Oh, I'm in danger in my own country!" ) then wreck the place.  The buildings are trashed, then they moan until they get moved somewhere else.  Polish people were coming in their waves after the country was brought in to the EU.  They'd leave their kids at home, and then start claiming £1000's every year for them.  This was all in the news years ago.  The best papers to read are the Daily Record ( Scottish paper ), the Daily Star and the Sun, because the write-in pages and columns are where you find the REAL story of "Britain".

I used to take the bus passed Sighthill, and you'd see them all coming on with free bus passes.  Here I am, the idiot having to pay full price every week and these [inappropriate word(s)] are getting them for nothing!  Unfortunately, the only party that seems to really want to tackle this issue is the BNP.  Labour wanted a multi-cultured "Britain", and it's came at a price.  In 100 years, we're going to be the minority in their country.¹

[Jude]

A lot of "well known facts" are not actually facts.  There's a large number of misconceptions and mistruths that have become rooted in cultures throughout the world and accepted as truth.  If they are actually true, it shouldn't be hard for you to find the numbers that back it up, if you can't find those numbers, you've probably been clinging to a baseless belief.

[Neroon]

Stan, you have not answered my question.  I did not ask about how many people are being admitted to Britain or are being given citizenship but your assertion about many immigrants applying for child credits for children not in this country.  I fail to see anything in your answer or in the source you cited to justify the assertion, so I'll still treat it as being inflammatory propaganda at the best.  Oh and I asked for a source untainted by party political interest; I'm not certain that the Torygraph fills the bill.

And yes, you're right about the large number of Poles coming to the UK.  The only thing was, they were coming to work.  The fact that, as the work dried up, they returned to Poland shows this.  I would hardly count the Sun, Star or Record as credible sources, given the standard of journalism in these papers and their editorial standards.  As Jude says, we are looking at a case of an assertion being repeated so often that it's accepted regardless of the truth of the matter.

[Soran]

I'm pretty sure that if individual votes were used to elect the prime minister instead of party controlled regions...then Micky mouse would have been running the UK for the last twenty years.  :P

[HairyHeretic]

I wouldn't believe the Sun and Star on anything more than the comics and star signs pages  :P

[Nadir]

Why is it the British people's fault who the English elect to power? The English aren't to blame who Ireland or Scotland vote for, why is vice versa applicable?

And Gordon Brown never was elected by the English public. He was too cowardly to allow the public to have a say on whether he had a right to the power handed to him.

[desert ashes]

never got anyone pregnant in my life, and don't really want children either, but I live off benifits. Why should I work, when the higher-paying jobs that would make it are all forever out of my reach? I will never be famous (nor do I want to be famous, it's frankly not worth it.) I will never own car parks or be a lawyer or a doctor or a politician or a published writer.Why give up my freedom and answer to a boss when I can be free,as long as I don't break the law?

Why should you work?  As a tax payer, because I shouldn't have to support anyone too lazy to get a job and support themselves.  Why should those who are working -- who are earning their way -- have to support you because you've made the choice to be lazy?  Average Joe didn't go to college and get a job, and Average Jane didn't land the gas store job, just to support Person C because Person C doesn't want to earn their living. 

If you don't want to work, I think it's grossly wrong and highly immoral for you to feel it's "Just dandy!" to live off everyone else's hard work and to "steal" what they're making for your own selfish ends.   No one can make you work, but no one should be expected to feed, clothe and shelter you with their money, either.



Personally, that's what I think the biggest problem is for the welfare systems.  No one wants to earn their way anymore -- it's become too easy to feed off the government.  "Oh, I don't want to work. I'd rather stay home all day, or go fishing, or [insert here]" instead of taking control of their lives, doing something with it, and making a go at it.  No one thinks working is fun (unless you're a bit sick, or have a really awesome job or one you just simply like), but it's always been a mandatory part of life.

You worked to eat.
You worked to survive.
You worked to build shelter.
You worked to live.

It shouldn't be the government's, or your society's, responsibility to support you when you are perfectly capable of finding work.  There's a job for anyone -- even if it's stuffing envelopes for eight hours a day, it's a paying job.  Maybe you aren't making what you'd like to make at the time, or it's even less than your standard living.  Lower your standard of living until you can get there.  Too many people are expecting the world to drop at their feet and feeling it's expected just because... why?  They're alive?  Please show me any government document that says, "We'll support you for living just because you're here." 

The Daveys in this situation?  I wholeheartedly agree with sterilization in cases like this.  They cannot afford to have children, to keep having children, and yet they are, without assistance.  If a family, or a person, cannot financially afford to have a child then they shouldn't.  If the family or parent is on government assistance I fully support the government stepping in and doing a temporary sterilization.  Frankly, they are living off the government's money, and under the current laws, having more children means getting more money from the government.  Yeah, you can opt not to get sterilized by not going onto the government system. 

(On a side note, I'm really curious how long The Daveys have been on government assistance, or around which child they got on the money train.)

Am I saying it's not a flawed idea?  Not in the least.  For me, though, it comes down to that if you're expecting for your fellow citizens to support you and your children, which is impending on their rights, salary, lifestyle, and family, then your fellow citizens should have a right to say, "No more!"  Or even if the government stopped giving out additional benefits after the first or second child, not giving an increase for more children.  (Sterilization is rather dramatic, but the way the systems are out of control and being abused is even more dramatic for everyone else.)

[Cheka Man]

I believe in predestination. Not 100%, but about 90%.So if I take a crap job, I am chaining myself to the bottom rung.Would you marry someone you did not love and did not find attractive/sexy? That's the way I feel about jobs.If the right job comes,I'll take it, but the right jobs would most likely want not to have anything to do with me.

[desert ashes]

So, now you're saying God is the reason why you don't have the job you want?  (Predestination, as I know it, is that your life has been predetermined by God.) 

Getting a crap job doesn't mean you're chained to it.  It's a starting point.  Bill Gates, for example, did not just wake up one morning a billionaire.  He started in his garage and built his way up, step by step by step -- not one giant leap.  The Beatles didn't form a handful of hours before releasing their first album.  No one who is at the top of their game, or was, can tell you it happened with the snap of their fingers since it just doesn't happen that way. 

Everyone who is somewhere had to work to get there.  Why should you or anyone else be the exception?

EDIT: Corrected "who is somehow" to "who is somewhere."

[Cheka Man]

I see jobs like others see marridge partners;get fired and it's like a divorce, leave with no trouble and it's like a good breakup. I did make  one attempt off my own bat to get a job;I put my old e-mail address on the Internet where everyone could see it. I did get job offers, but they were scammers trying to get me to money launder for them. If I'd worked for them,I'd have ended up with a crminal record.

[Jude]

No one is going to hire you for a good job if you have no work experience.  Everyone starts out somewhere crappy (with very few exceptions), that's just how your career is going to begin.  If you don't take the first step, you'll never get where you're going.

By the way that's true of marriage too.  If you only date people who you feel like you can marry, you won't date anyone.  It's impossible to say whether or not someone is marriage material when you first meet them.  Also the chances of marrying the first person you ever date and having a happy marriage as astronomically low.

Oftentimes you have to date people to figure out what you do and don't want based on how things go.

[Cheka Man]

To Moirae...

Either, A) The atheists are right and there is nothing up there (if my computer gets struck by lightning tonight I know why) or B) There is a God or Goddess and He/She/It is royally pissed at me, causing death to end my 1st relationship, making the 2nd person to fall in love with me live too far away, and grinding my story ideas to dust.

To Jude...it's not personal/directed at you at all , but if I wanted to be at the bottom and be hassled by everyone I'd join the army or navy. I am poor, but I have my freedom and most of my self respect. I did have a job for a bit, the first few weeks were great, but then my boss started being a prick. What I'd like to do is fake my work experience but that is seriously ilegal and I want very much to keep out of prison. Anyway, noone would want me as I have Asperger's Syndrome

[Jude]

I've known people with Aspergers that were functioning members of society; hell, quite good at their jobs and getting things done.  I'll admit I don't know the severity of your case, but you shouldn't let that one thing define who you are.  You're more than that.  I bet you're fully capable of getting a job and working, you don't seem to be deficient in anything to me, have a little confidence and faith in yourself.