The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

[CaptainNexus616]

I think what is really turning a lot of people off (Not speaking for you Mathim) about doing another origin is not only would it be redundant as the third time around. But that in the end its Sony that has the final word on Spidey still. Now the original 2002 film with Tobey Maguire and the sequel with Doc Ock are impressive films and were in fact good. However something in the quality of the story changed by Spider-Man 3. The over abundance of villains among other things including for some emo disco Peter. That movie was just a black mark on the franchise.

Then when Amazing Spidey rolled around in 11 a lot of people including myself just didn't care to much for Andrew Garfield's portrayal of Peter Parker. Granted his Spider-Man felt like it was spot on. The first movie was not bad, it wasn't perfect but it was an improvement compared to Spider-Man 3.  However with ASM 2 Sony made the same mistake they did back on 07 with simply too many villains at once. Not to mention one of the big moments in the film did involve a major plot point in Spider-Man history, the Death of Gwen Stacey. It was hinted at months in advance with some leaked photos of Emma Stone wearing a similar outfit, then when the moment hit the screen...it didn't have the same impact it did in the comics. Sure we saw Peter give up being Spider-Man.....for about a few minutes our time. People try to defend that it was months their time but we didn't have any time to feel this sink in before he picked the mantle back up and started fighting Rhino. So if they were going to kill Gwen off to make Spidey quit and pick back up within a five minute difference for us. Why kill her off to begin with?

My biggest fear is the fact Sony now has its foot in the MCU. If the guys at Marvel want to take the story one way and it will affect Spidey...Sony may try to say no we don't want you to do that to Spidey because we are going to do this later. I am really worried this deal may hamper any Marvel Movies involving Spider-Man because Marvel won't be able to do certain ideas without fighting a big debate with Sony. Which lets be honest Marvel has the superior track record with Superhero movies right now compared to Sony.

[Mathim]

I think what is really turning a lot of people off (Not speaking for you Mathim) about doing another origin is not only would it be redundant as the third time around. But that in the end its Sony that has the final word on Spidey still. Now the original 2002 film with Tobey Maguire and the sequel with Doc Ock are impressive films and were in fact good. However something in the quality of the story changed by Spider-Man 3. The over abundance of villains among other things including for some emo disco Peter. That movie was just a black mark on the franchise.

Then when Amazing Spidey rolled around in 11 a lot of people including myself just didn't care to much for Andrew Garfield's portrayal of Peter Parker. Granted his Spider-Man felt like it was spot on. The first movie was not bad, it wasn't perfect but it was an improvement compared to Spider-Man 3.  However with ASM 2 Sony made the same mistake they did back on 07 with simply too many villains at once. Not to mention one of the big moments in the film did involve a major plot point in Spider-Man history, the Death of Gwen Stacey. It was hinted at months in advance with some leaked photos of Emma Stone wearing a similar outfit, then when the moment hit the screen...it didn't have the same impact it did in the comics. Sure we saw Peter give up being Spider-Man.....for about a few minutes our time. People try to defend that it was months their time but we didn't have any time to feel this sink in before he picked the mantle back up and started fighting Rhino. So if they were going to kill Gwen off to make Spidey quit and pick back up within a five minute difference for us. Why kill her off to begin with?

My biggest fear is the fact Sony now has its foot in the MCU. If the guys at Marvel want to take the story one way and it will affect Spidey...Sony may try to say no we don't want you to do that to Spidey because we are going to do this later. I am really worried this deal may hamper any Marvel Movies involving Spider-Man because Marvel won't be able to do certain ideas without fighting a big debate with Sony. Which lets be honest Marvel has the superior track record with Superhero movies right now compared to Sony.

That's why I was basically not ecstatic about this deal, not with Sony's grubby mitts still all over him. I would have been perfectly fine waiting until Sony got desperate enough to just sell him back altogether.

[Zelta Runa]

The Raimi films and the ASM movies have their respective pros and cons. Andrew Garfield is a way better Spider-Man than Maguire, but the ASM movies had shitty villains. Etcetera.

I’m not in favour of an origin story either. That’s been done to death. But the Avengers already have a grown-up smartass genius, and his name is Tony Stark. Adding another wisecracking prodigy to the team is kind of redundant. And just because Marvel wants a young Spidey doesn’t automatically mean the movie will suck. Like Mathim said, age is irrelevant.

I just hope Marvel doesn’t shove other, underexposed heroes out of the way to make room for Spider-Man. That’s all. :-)

On a different note, what do you guys think will be better: Batman v. Superman or Civil War? And why?

[Mathim]

The Raimi films and the ASM movies have their respective pros and cons. Andrew Garfield is a way better Spider-Man than Maguire, but the ASM movies had shitty villains. Etcetera.

I’m not in favour of an origin story either. That’s been done to death. But the Avengers already have a grown-up smartass genius, and his name is Tony Stark. Adding another wisecracking prodigy to the team is kind of redundant. And just because Marvel wants a young Spidey doesn’t automatically mean the movie will suck. Like Mathim said, age is irrelevant.

I just hope Marvel doesn’t shove other, underexposed heroes out of the way to make room for Spider-Man. That’s all. :-)

On a different note, what do you guys think will be better: Batman v. Superman or Civil War? And why?

That you could call Andrew Garfield anything other than unimpressive at best, makes my head want to explode.

BvS is going to suck because Superman simply cannot be hurt and there's no suspense or tension when he fights. It's purely for the sake of others being in danger so it really is just boring. Even the Hulk was able to be hurt and overpowered by the Abomination, so that was at least more interesting during their final battle. Then the fact that they're trying to cram in so many other heroes and such without proper introductions is going to be difficult to balance out. Plus we're not getting a proper reboot of Batman before his intro here and he's supposed to be the co-star? I'm sorry, there's just not enough care going into it or really, any of the DCCU. Have you seen the spacing of JL part 1 and 2 compared to Infiniti War part 1 and 2? It's crazy.

Not to mention, Civil War is about to give us things we're all clamoring for. The very strong possibility that one or more heroes will really die (something that is a big concern among fans that complain that it gets too boring knowing everyone is going to be okay-see Man of Steel for the pinnacle of this complaint), the introduction of who knows how many other unsung heroes if only in cameos, and of course the first opportunity for the MCU's signature black superhero to make himself known, as well as newcomer Spidey (although that, they can certainly bollocks up.) Marvel took time and care to craft this one. DC is sharting out their product to scramble up the ladder after them, and it shows. Sorry, DC, you need to earn more street cred before I have any faith in you. I WANT you dummies to be good, to be better. Prove that you have it in you. I won't hold my breath, though.

[Zelta Runa]

That you could call Andrew Garfield anything other than unimpressive at best, makes my head want to explode.

Ha ha! On that we disagree.

BvS is going to suck because Superman simply cannot be hurt and there's no suspense or tension when he fights. It's purely for the sake of others being in danger so it really is just boring. Even the Hulk was able to be hurt and overpowered by the Abomination, so that was at least more interesting during their final battle. Then the fact that they're trying to cram in so many other heroes and such without proper introductions is going to be difficult to balance out. Plus we're not getting a proper reboot of Batman before his intro here and he's supposed to be the co-star? I'm sorry, there's just not enough care going into it or really, any of the DCCU. Have you seen the spacing of JL part 1 and 2 compared to Infiniti War part 1 and 2? It's crazy.

Not to mention, Civil War is about to give us things we're all clamoring for. The very strong possibility that one or more heroes will really die (something that is a big concern among fans that complain that it gets too boring knowing everyone is going to be okay-see Man of Steel for the pinnacle of this complaint), the introduction of who knows how many other unsung heroes if only in cameos, and of course the first opportunity for the MCU's signature black superhero to make himself known, as well as newcomer Spidey (although that, they can certainly bollocks up.) Marvel took time and care to craft this one. DC is sharting out their product to scramble up the ladder after them, and it shows. Sorry, DC, you need to earn more street cred before I have any faith in you. I WANT you dummies to be good, to be better. Prove that you have it in you. I won't hold my breath, though.

I feel similarly. I’ve written multiple blog posts about the problem with Superman, and I and others firmly believe DC is making a mistake in trying to shortcut to their version of the Avengers.

However, my concern is that they’re going to try to Batman-ify every one of their heroes.They already made Superman kind of brooding and sad. I hope they don’t give Wonder Woman and the Flash the same treatment. I watch The Flash on The CW and it’s pretty great!

[Deamonbane]

I would have been all for ending the movie on the cliffhanger of Gwen dying, letting the mourning become more enhanced for the viewers by making them wait another couple of years for the sequel. Personally, I would have watched the sequel that they churned out if they had done that. But no, having spidey back in the costume again before the end was just... meh.

[Zelta Runa]

But the Rhino! Wasn’t he just amazing? [/sarcasm]

[CaptainNexus616]

I would have been all for ending the movie on the cliffhanger of Gwen dying, letting the mourning become more enhanced for the viewers by making them wait another couple of years for the sequel. Personally, I would have watched the sequel that they churned out if they had done that. But no, having spidey back in the costume again before the end was just... meh.

Exactly! Then for the next movie they could have introduced Mary Jane into the fold and could help Peter heal from the death of Gwen. Or something!! It was such a great opportunity the writters threw away just for the dumb excuse of squeezing the Rhino in the last minute of the movie.

[Zelta Runa]

Sony doesn’t understand subtlety. This is the same studio who had Peter Parker dance down the street and crammed Venom into a movie with two other villains.

[Deamonbane]

Also the same studio that worked it out so that Mary Jane would be the damsel in distress in the climax of all... three.... fucking... movies...

[Lustful Bride]

*shivers at a horrible thougth*

I really hope in the Civil War movie(s) we don't see someone telling Captain that hes not American because he doesn't watch Nascar or myspace or whatever the hell that one idiot said.

Oh god when I saw that I wanted to reach in and slap the heresy out of her mouth for that.  >:(

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

I wish this had been his response.

Admit it. You want to see a young Spider-Man trade wisecracks with Tony, earn Steve’s misguided paternal affection, utterly fail to impress Natasha, make fun of Clint, and shit his unitard when he sees what Bruce can do.

Yes. :-)

[TheGlyphstone]

I want to see Cap scream 'SURRENDER? DO YOU THINK THIS 'A' ON MY FOREHAND STANDS FOR FRANCE?"

Will never happen because politics, but its the only good part of Ultimate Cap.

[CaptainNexus616]

*shivers at a horrible thougth*

I really hope in the Civil War movie(s) we don't see someone telling Captain that hes not American because he doesn't watch Nascar or myspace or whatever the hell that one idiot said.

Oh god when I saw that I wanted to reach in and slap the heresy out of her mouth for that.  >:(

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

I wish this had been his response.

Yes. :-)

That was beautiful

If only Captain also mentioned how Iron Man encouraged Spider-Man to reveal his identity. That was the dumbest move he could have ever made. For years he was afraid of his enemies finding out who he is then...whoop hey guys I am Peter Parker!

[Mathim]

Ha ha! On that we disagree.I feel similarly. I’ve written multiple blog posts about the problem with Superman, and I and others firmly believe DC is making a mistake in trying to shortcut to their version of the Avengers.

However, my concern is that they’re going to try to Batman-ify every one of their heroes.They already made Superman kind of brooding and sad. I hope they don’t give Wonder Woman and the Flash the same treatment. I watch The Flash on The CW and it’s pretty great!

We may disagree, but only one of us has a leg to stand on.

Flash is supposed to be the lighthearted joker of the team so yeah, to darken him up is a mistake. I want a whimsical side to the DCCU to offset all the dark crap that went on. Even the Justice League cartoon had tons of both to balance it out.

[Sasquatch421]

Sony doesn’t understand subtlety. This is the same studio who had Peter Parker dance down the street and crammed Venom into a movie with two other villains.

Venom only got put into Spider-Man 3 because the so called "Fans" wanted him in. Raimi didn't like Venom and didn't want to use him, but got pressured by the studio... Then of course the so called "Fans" bitched after because Eddie wasn't the way the armchair directors wanted him to be. Though something tells me down the street dancing Peter Parker was just Tobey being himself and having fun. I will admit that I did chuckle....

[Zelta Runa]

We may disagree, but only one of us has a leg to stand on.

Uh, okay then.

[Mathim]

Venom only got put into Spider-Man 3 because the so called "Fans" wanted him in. Raimi didn't like Venom and didn't want to use him, but got pressured by the studio... Then of course the so called "Fans" bitched after because Eddie wasn't the way the armchair directors wanted him to be. Though something tells me down the street dancing Peter Parker was just Tobey being himself and having fun. I will admit that I did chuckle....

I heard about that too, but I still felt the overall movie was underwhelming anyway. Whether or not the symbiote being around meant Venom was going to be there in the end or just wait until the next movie, all the crap it made Peter do just annoyed the heck out of me. And we still can't have an Ant-Man in the style of the original because of a little slap that Spidey got away with not having to endure half the crap Hank Pym did.

[CaptainNexus616]

Still no denying how cool the Black Suit looked in that movie. The web details to the Black Suit looked pretty awesome in my book even if it wasn't comic book accurate.

[Zelta Runa]

The sad part is Venom could've been amazing. Raimi is a horror guy first and foremost. Remember that scene in Spider-Man 2 with Doc Ock's arms? Easily the best scene in the film. Venom could've been like that. But sadly they only showed him for two seconds. The rest of the time we had to look at Topher Grace's stupid face.

[Mathim]

Still no denying how cool the Black Suit looked in that movie. The web details to the Black Suit looked pretty awesome in my book even if it wasn't comic book accurate.

Not that I'm a fan of the male form or anything but I would have preferred the smoother, gel-like appearance from the comics, the one you'd believe the symbiote could shoot stuff out of from any direction.

It looks like seeing the Black Cat probably won't be happening in this yet-another-reboot, and they won't have a good footing if they ever try to work in the clone saga, which I thought would be his only effective way to combat the Sinister Six if that ever came about.

The sad part is Venom could've been amazing. Raimi is a horror guy first and foremost. Remember that scene in Spider-Man 2 with Doc Ock's arms? Easily the best scene in the film. Venom could've been like that. But sadly they only showed him for two seconds. The rest of the time we had to look at Topher Grace's stupid face.

I'd hold back from calling Raimi a horror guy after Drag Me to Hell. He did Darkman, another superhero film which I actually quite liked, a lot more than his Spider-Man projects. And Topher Grace was about the worst choice they could have made for Eddie Brock. When I first heard that casting choice, I was like, "That skinny dork from That 70's show? Da fuq?" Brock was supposed to be a guy bigger and brawnier than Peter Parker even without the symbiote. I wanted to believe he could be a threat even without the suit, even if in reality he wouldn't stand a chance. Just someone that physically imposing so that when he bonds with the symbiote and becomes Venom, we really would react like, "Oh, man! Spidey's in deep shit now!"

[Zelta Runa]

But the clone saga is terrible.

[Mathim]

But the clone saga is terrible.

Yeah, that's why they never fully adapt a storyline directly from the comics, they just base a script around it (or they do if they're smart, like with DOFP). I'm just saying, throw the Scarlet Spider or something in there and let Spidey do a tag-team or more to help deal with the half-dozen or more punks Sony would have had him up against. I mean, him and Black Cat still wouldn't have stood much of a chance even though they did introduce Felicia (Hardy? I don't think they confirmed her last name...still, not sure they were even going anywhere with that.) so unless they were going to have Venom go all good-guy, they would have needed more backup.

[Zelta Runa]

What I don’t understand is how the hell the Sinister Six spinoff was supposed to work without Spider-Man in it. That’s like a Die Hard movie with no John McClane. I agree with what you’re saying and it’s sad we’ll probably have to wait forever now to see Black Cat.

On the other hand, we might not. Back when Sony still thought Raimi was doing Spider-Man 4, the scuttlebutt was that the Lizard would be the primary antagonist. Fast-forward five years to TASM2, and that’s what we got. So there’s a chance that, if enough fans want it, Marvel might listen and include Black Cat. Heck, I’d like to see Silk on the big screen. (Although that might mean we’d have to sit through the Morlun storyline.)

[Mathim]

What I don’t understand is how the hell the Sinister Six spinoff was supposed to work without Spider-Man in it. That’s like a Die Hard movie with no John McClane. I agree with what you’re saying and it’s sad we’ll probably have to wait forever now to see Black Cat.

On the other hand, we might not. Back when Sony still thought Raimi was doing Spider-Man 4, the scuttlebutt was that the Lizard would be the primary antagonist. Fast-forward five years to TASM2, and that’s what we got. So there’s a chance that, if enough fans want it, Marvel might listen and include Black Cat. Heck, I’d like to see Silk on the big screen. (Although that might mean we’d have to sit through the Morlun storyline.)

Well they were trying to set her up already in TASM2, although poorly. Name-dropping with no payoff really annoys me about superhero movies. No telling how she'll play into things now, but within the MCU, I just find it dubious she'll be making an appearance. Maybe on the 4th reboot.

[Zelta Runa]

I wonder if you’ve ever seen RandomGuy’s I’m a Marvel… and I’m a DC series on YouTube. There’s one you’d probably like where Spidey freaks out about all his reboots. He says “At this rate, we’ll be getting an adaptation of Spider-Man 2099… in 2099!