Any opinions on the Gotham TV series?

Started by Beorning, March 23, 2017, 04:14:56 PM

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Beorning

Recently, I've watched some clips of Gotham on Youtube, as well read a bit of the episode summaries etc. Now, I'm wondering: what's your opinion on this show?

From what I've seen, it seems to be awfully dark. Also, it seems to be overacted - for once, Cobblepot appeas to be behaving in no way a normal human being acts. Some of the characters also look very grotesque - again, Cobblepot, as well as Zsasz. I know these guys are future Batman villains, but still...

Also, I'm not quite sure what's the point of the show? The idea seems to be: a crime show set in pre-Batman Gotham. But if so, then why so many Batman villains are making appearances? I can get rationale behind showing young Cobblepot's rise to influence, but there are so many of the villains appearing - there's even a young Joker on the show. If so, why don't just make a Batman show and be done with it?

Overall, what's your opinion? Is this show any good?

sree

Well I don't want to spoil anything for you. Season 1 was a little bland. But season 2 really caught my eye and there are good story and character progressions. So I went back and watched it from the start. As far as the villains go, its like an origin story to them. And some of them are executed to perfection. I would really recommend watching it, but be patient. Its really worth it.

I would rate it an 8/10.
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Quote from: Beorning on March 23, 2017, 04:14:56 PM
From what I've seen, it seems to be awfully dark. Also, it seems to be overacted - for once, Cobblepot appeas to be behaving in no way a normal human being acts. Some of the characters also look very grotesque - again, Cobblepot, as well as Zsasz. I know these guys are future Batman villains, but still...
Jada Pinkett Smith was the worst offender for hamming it up, but thankfully focus has been pulled away from her character. But the rouges gallery are the very definition of all grotesques, they are fantastically absurd and bizarre. The show started of trying to dark and gritty and didn't always work (the less about the balloon guy the better) but it really started to find it's groove when it leant into the absurdity and bizarreness.

Quote from: Beorning on March 23, 2017, 04:14:56 PM
Also, I'm not quite sure what's the point of the show? The idea seems to be: a crime show set in pre-Batman Gotham. But if so, then why so many Batman villains are making appearances? I can get rationale behind showing young Cobblepot's rise to influence, but there are so many of the villains appearing - there's even a young Joker on the show. If so, why don't just make a Batman show and be done with it?
Why not make a Batman show? For pretty much the same reasons they made Defenders shows and didn't try to make an Avengers show.
The bottom line it's all about money, you can't do a movie level production on a TV budget, the Netflix shows are reported to have production budget of $200 Million for 60 episodes, which is less than the budget of the first Avengers movie. If they'd tried to do an Avengers TV show on something like that Netflix budget, then it would look cheap and second rate, it would tarnish the brand and hurt the Avengers movies at the box office. Secondly if the Netflix shows had crashed and burned, then it could have been quietly swept under the rug and forgotten about. If an Avengers show had crashed and burned it would hurt the box office.
So doing a Batman-less Batman TV show creates a firewall between the TV show and the movies. The obvious question to ask is "Why is there a Flash TV show if the Flash is in the movies?" In that case the other Arrow-verse shows create that firewall.

Quote from: Beorning on March 23, 2017, 04:14:56 PM
Overall, what's your opinion? Is this show any good?
It ain't Shakespeare but it's entertaining enough in it's own way. Baby Batman, it very intense and does a good job in the role. Alfred is a very different beast from what went before. Cobblepott and Nigma pretty much steal the show between them.
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Inkidu

I love it. It's the live-action Batman Animated Series show I've always wanted, obviously without Batman. Ultimately what it does (rather unintentionally) is explore the concept of folklore in that it creates its own unified origins for the Batman world. Gotham has this wonderfully anachronistic feel to it, making it feel like its own entity.

Sure it started out slow with some third string villain like Balloon Man (and yeah, he's in the gallery). Penguin is a real gem though, Edward Nygma is done well. It pulls a lot from the Long Halloween (again with no Batman), and it doesn't do what the Nolan movies tried to do (make them as realistic as possible), as the show goes on it embraces a bit of that Silver Age wackadoo, but never quite loses that sinister grittiness from season one that kind of gives it this pervasive sinister nature.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

RubySlippers

Isn't Poison Ivy supposed to be able to command plants and be a lesbian, she was in the comics, as well as being seductive?

Beorning

I'm surprised that you guys like Nygma and the Penguin... For me, these characters seem to stuck out like sore thumbs. What living human being behaves like these two? They are just too... cartoonish for me, personally. Cobblepot, for example, looks like he's going to break into crying most of the time...

Also, the show seems to be going with the Penguin being at least a little unhinged, which is complete opposite of the comics. Cobblepot is a rare sane man among Batman's enemies...

LongTallMiss

I absolutely love the show. Gotham is basically about James Gordon and how the villains of Gotham come about, with the rise of Batman. I think the portrayals of the villains are slightly different to what you might be used to with the comics and films, but I like that. It's dark and gritty. The guy who plays Cobblepot is brilliant, as well as the guy who plays Joker. Man, that guy does insane well! Nygma is great; in season 3 you really start to see him come out of his shell. I'm not quite keen on young Bruce Wayne, I think he's a bit of a wet lettuce though the recent mid season finale kicks him up a notch. I'm starting to like the love/hate relationship between Bruce and Selina too.

All in all, I'd highly recommend it though it isn't for everyone. Especially if you're an avid fan of the comics (I'm a Marvel fangirl rather than DC). It does take time to get into it during season 1, but stick with it.

Quote from: RubySlippers on March 29, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Isn't Poison Ivy supposed to be able to command plants and be a lesbian, she was in the comics, as well as being seductive?

Yes, but none of the villains have quite reached the point of where we're used to seeing them...

BentLycan93


Inkidu

Quote from: Beorning on March 30, 2017, 03:19:43 PM
I'm surprised that you guys like Nygma and the Penguin... For me, these characters seem to stuck out like sore thumbs. What living human being behaves like these two? They are just too... cartoonish for me, personally. Cobblepot, for example, looks like he's going to break into crying most of the time...

Also, the show seems to be going with the Penguin being at least a little unhinged, which is complete opposite of the comics. Cobblepot is a rare sane man among Batman's enemies...
He's not unhinged, at least not by Gotham standards though. He's emotional, he's angry, still has something to prove, but he's also much younger. Give him time and I think we'll see the gentleman criminal we're used to.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Shores

#9
I saw the first episode and thought, "Oh cool, a batman show that focuses on Jim Gordon's younger days and solving crime in the old era." I was expecting a crime-of-the-week style like Criminal Minds, where you got to know the characters better through each investigation, and also see character development there. Instead, the focus in Gotham is on the criminals and the plots they twist up. I stopped watching for a while, and tried to pick it up again, but I really couldn't find interest in it. The writing of the criminals are going for the shock and awe aspect, rather than a more subtle, creepy style.

It's basically a freak show at the circus vibe, whereas I was expecting a house at the edge of town that has an old man living in it who was recently gruesomely murdered. They focus so little on Jim Gordon, which I think would have been cool to see more of, since he's a normal human, trying to solve normal human crime, AND superhuman crimes at the same time. I wish they would have done a crime-of-the-week format with intertwined normal human crime and superhuman crimes, to not only show how bad Gotham was, but also that it might be hard to differentiate between the two. I think whenever we watch superheroes on tv, who committed the crime is very obvious to the viewer. I want to see through the eyes of a normal police officer and how he really has no clue who did it. The mystery and suspense from trying to solve a crime without being killed by someone overpowered, when there was no batman, would have made it engrossing.

Nope, didn't get that. No mystery, no suspense. Just events happening one after the other that is supposed to shock you because of how gruesome they are. The opening intro evokes more intrigue than the show itself.

Beorning

So, I caught up with the show...

Overall, what I saw was entertaining, but not terribly so - I was much more engrossed by The Flash (I haven't seen the third season yet, but I really, really liked the second one). I'm definitely not enamoured with the show's forced retro feel - it's both visually unappealing (especially the female clothes and hairstyles) and unconvincing. I'm also not sure what they are trying to do with this show's concept - on one hand, it feels like an origin story for Batman and his villains, on the other hand, they keep bringing all these characters that shouldn't be present yet (like Hugo Strange, who is exactly as he is in the adventures of adult Batman). It's as if they wanted to make a prequel and an ordinary Batman show at the same time.

What I liked: Alfred, with his Britishness and his "action butler" shtick. Young Bruce Wayne, who really does feel like the future Batman. Selina. Bullock. Lee.

What I didn't like: the Penguin, who really is borderline insane in this incarnation and completely unrecognizable. As well as Nygma, who could be a great character, but is executed in overly cartoonish way. Overall, there are too many villains in the show that fall in the "maniacally-laughing cartoon character" category. I mean, there's the Penguin, there's Nygma, there's Jerome, there's Jervis Tetch, there's Barbara Keane... and all of them are iterations of the same character type.

Now, sometimes it's understandable - Jerome *should* be that way, as he's basically the future Joker (I mean, there has been no confirmation, but come on). But Cobblepot is executed in the same way - he's unstable, he's bizarre, he's giggling. Nygma tends to be cartoony and theatrical, especially in the last episodes of Season 3. Tetch, while generally creepy and well-done, has these moments of maniacal laughing, too. And what the heck is going on with Barbara? After she goes crazy, her whole personality becomes that of a triggerhappy cartoon that makes quips. Does she even have any kind of motivation? I really don't know what was supposed to be going on in her head...

BTW. Jerome. As I said, he's very well done - but he illustrates the conceptual problem this show has. On one hand, this is a Batman prequel show, so they can't just use the Joker, who is the biggest enemy of adult Batman. On the other hand, they really *want* to keep using the Batman's rogues gallery, including the Joker - so, they bring in Jerome, who's basically the Joker anyway. And they even set him up as this personal enemy of young Bruce...

BTW. I really feel sorry for Michael Chiklis, who's great character of Captain Barnes got turned into awfully flat character of Executioner...

Overall, weird show. Hm.

Inkidu

Quote from: Beorning on July 19, 2017, 03:03:27 PM


BTW. I really feel sorry for Michael Chiklis, who's great character of Captain Barnes got turned into awfully flat character of Executioner...
It's almost as if you take someone and force them to obsess over one aspect of their character at the exclusion of all the others they become a one-dimensional character. :)

I think that was intentional.
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Beorning

Quote from: Inkidu on July 25, 2017, 06:15:53 PM
It's almost as if you take someone and force them to obsess over one aspect of their character at the exclusion of all the others they become a one-dimensional character. :)

I think that was intentional.

Well, I liked the infected Lee :) But Barnes? His final appearances were awfully silly. I looked at poor Chiklis, clad in some pseudo-steampunk armour and made up like a death metal vocalist - and I almost heard him curse inwardly: "WTF is this??? I'm supposed to be a serious actor!"... :D

LostInTheMist

My problem with the TV series is that nothing can really happen. All of the villains are Batman villains, so they clearly can't die. And all the police characters are Batman allies, so they also can't die. Plus the show is boring and the writing sucks.

*Shrugs* So that's why I gave it up after one season. YMMV.
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BentLycan93

I think Oswald Cobblepot is a strangely sexy character for the series.

Chewy

A lot of people have said I would like it but I'm actually worried. I have loved Batman when I was a kid and I'm almost 27 now. The cartoons were the best, by far. I still watch them. But I'm so biased I'm afraid it's not going to live up to expectations. Is that weird?

Beorning

No, I guess :) But don't worry, it's just one show!

BTW. Have you watched any Batman movies? Not all of them lived up to the expectations. Quite a few stinkers there...

Overall, I invite you to watch the show! I may have mixed feelings about it, but there are things to like there, IMHO.

Chewy

I could try watching them now since I'll be out of work for another month... I guess I just hate when people hype up a show and then it not live up to the expectation. Then again, I'll never know if I like it unless I watch it. lol

I think I might finally give it a shot.

And of course I've seen the movies! Most people hate me because I hated Christian Bale as Batman and I hated the Dark Knight series. Michael Keaton was my favorite Batman in the movies (Adam West was my favorite Batman period) but Batman and Robin was my favorite Batman movie because Poison Ivy is my favorite Villain. lol