Vampire: the Masquerade Sandbox Interest Check

[AndyZ]

Repeated personal experience has taught me that sandbox games work much better on forums than games that focus primarily on plot.  To that end, I've got a Vampire: the Masquerade sandbox game idea in mind.

I don't have the entire concept in mind yet (I only came up with it an hour or so ago) but the basic idea revolves around a Camarilla fictional city that has recently recovered from a Sabbat attack.  With the last stragglers of the Sabbat on the ropes, the Camarilla need to rebuild their numbers to become a flourishing city once again, leaving the Prince to be much more accepting of creating new Kindred.

People who are new to the game will be encouraged to start the game with a PC Sire, but not required.  As things get going, recruitment will come in the form of particular players trying to find PCs to play their childer.

I intend to have two different tiers of players.  Standard characters will be made using standard rules, but characters in positions of power will be given bonuses in exchange for some compliance with the status quo.  For example, if I give someone beefed-up stats and let them be Sheriff, I expect them not to try to stake the Prince.  This will allow people to play characters which would normally only be NPCs, filling out the game and taking a lot of the load off of the moderators.  Naturally, standard characters are free to plot to their hearts' contents, but will (as usual for VtM) be at the disadvantage of being much younger and less powerful.

Although hunting down the last stragglers of the Sabbat will provide some degree of combat, the majority of this game will be sandbox and political, building alliances and the like.  As is normal, outright slaying of an enemy in Elysium will be punished, but getting the Harpies to so humiliate an enemy that they commit suicide is perfectly fine.

This being Elliquiy, spending blood to make yourself appear more human (breathing, warming the body, being capable of sexual intercourse, etc.) will only cost one blood point, and the Blush of Health merit will explicitly allow sexual intercourse as well.

All are welcome regardless of sex, gender, or sexual preference, and you aren't required to play your own biological sex.  If you want to play someone who got captured by the Sabbat and fleshcrafted into the opposite sex by a Tzimisce before being rescued, by all means.

That said, I'm only allowing Camarilla, though that includes Lasombra Antitribu and members of the Assamite, Followers of Set, Giovanni and Ravnos who have pledged themselves to the Camarilla.

I'll be using the Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary rulebook.

If there are questions, concerns, things I've forgotten, or whatever, feel free to ask.

[wander]

Sounds good, you have my interest. :)

Creating a Vamp character takes some time with V:tM 20th, so can't really say atm what my own character will fall under, very interested to play however.

[Hobbes1266]

Would humans or ghouls be acceptable? How about other world of darkness creatures? I don't have anything in mind at the moment but I would like to make sure I know my options.

[AndyZ]

Humans and ghouls are absolutely options.  Other supernaturals I'd be much more iffy on.

I may end up allowing humans who don't have sheets and just want to freeform if there's call for it, but we'll see if anyone wants to do so before I decide on that (or if people object to the concept).

[Landshark]

Very interested! Are there particular positions already claimed by NPC's? How close are you adhering to system?

[Kolbrandr]

potentially interested depending on the guidelines for statting up characters in positions of power (throw dots at a sheet within reason of backstory? other? how old is preferable? that sort of shmear). Happy to do things like take up pc childer and/or work in service of whatever narrative over-agenda.

Though I'd really rather not see other supernatural types besides vampires and ghouls in game.

[AndyZ]

The basic idea for NPCs is that I want to have people who can handle some of the higher positions without upsetting the status quo.  It's easy to understand a Seneschal who desires to become Prince, or a Sheriff who can rip out a Prince's heart, and all the other sorts of underhanded deals that might go on, but trying to mix all that in with a normal group would cause too much chaos for a stable game.

In particular, I hope to create a setting that has some reasonable degree of stability.  The PCs might hope to overthrow the Prince, and - given time and effort - maybe they'll pull it off.  I just want to ensure that - like a standard game - the PCs are the movers and shakers and not the NPCs.  Rather than spending a lot of time in actual combat, the Sheriff's job will effectively be to hand out tasks to their Hounds, with the occasional staking a naughty PC and delivering them to the Prince.

I would most likely take the spot for the Prince position, leaving lots of things open like Seneschal, Keeper of Elysium, Sheriff, and so on.  Most likely I'll set the NPCs as Ancillae and give them 100 xp on top of standard stats, but that number isn't set in stone yet.

If I did allow non-vampire supernaturals, I'd likely give them similar NPC rules, where their participation is written with particular pre-planned expectations instead of being movers and shakers.  Even then, I'm rather iffy.

[Hobbes1266]

If I were to make a human, could I just use the rules for making a vampire without a clan or disciplines or should another method be used?

[AndyZ]

I think I'll leave it up to a vote whether people will start with the default human/ghoul stats or if they can ramp up higher.  If you have a preference, feel free to weigh in.

Also, for the NPCs, I'll let people cash in a bit of their Humanity at 2bp per lost dot to represent age and sacrifices made to acquire something else.  (Raising Humanity is 2bp per dot, so the number is easy enough to recognize.)

[wander]

I'll do some work on putting a Vampire together, maybe done tomorrow, maybe the next day. As I work through, I'm figuring a concept will show itself and drive me the rest of the way through, vampires aren't exactly restricted when it comes to options which makes it tough to nail down what would suit me best... ^^;

[Hobbes1266]

Would it be alright if I played a human who survived an attack from the sabbot when they invaded?

[Orange Marmalade]

Massive VtM fan here - definitely would love to jump in!

Possibly as a Seneschal or Sheriff, not sure on the clan yet... or maybe a Lasombra Anti Keeper of Elysium?

[Kolbrandr]

I would most likely take the spot for the Prince position, leaving lots of things open like Seneschal, Keeper of Elysium, Sheriff, and so on.  Most likely I'll set the NPCs as Ancillae and give them 100 xp on top of standard stats, but that number isn't set in stone yet.

If you look at various npc write-ups for such as have filled those positions in varying books, 100 xp doesn't.. really come up on taking you there. I suppose it depends on the sort of city you have in mind (Europe or North America as far as their different in game standards for neonates/ancillae/elders, somewhere where almost everyone is basically young-ish like post Camarilla conquest New York in Vamp revised, that kind of thing).

[AndyZ]

I'll do some work on putting a Vampire together, maybe done tomorrow, maybe the next day. As I work through, I'm figuring a concept will show itself and drive me the rest of the way through, vampires aren't exactly restricted when it comes to options which makes it tough to nail down what would suit me best... ^^;

I should note I'm not really ready to start taking characters yet.  I haven't fully fleshed out the setting, and this weekend is going to be crazy for me.  This was meant to just be an interest check and start getting things planned out.

Would it be alright if I played a human who survived an attack from the sabbot when they invaded?

Sure, though you've very likely had your memories erased, unless you have particular plans which will keep you from being a threat to the Masquerade.

Massive VtM fan here - definitely would love to jump in!

Possibly as a Seneschal or Sheriff, not sure on the clan yet... or maybe a Lasombra Anti Keeper of Elysium?

Being from a non-Camarilla Clan will make it more difficult to claim any position of power, though not impossible.

If you look at various npc write-ups for such as have filled those positions in varying books, 100 xp doesn't.. really come up on taking you there. I suppose it depends on the sort of city you have in mind (Europe or North America as far as their different in game standards for neonates/ancillae/elders, somewhere where almost everyone is basically young-ish like post Camarilla conquest New York in Vamp revised, that kind of thing).

I'm planning on a North American city where much of the recent attacks have left relatively newer Kindred in charge.  NPCs will get XP as well as PCs, but I want to create the possibility for enterprising PC Kindred to attempt to claim positions as well.

When I have the chance, I intend to start a World-Building thread, which will be open for everyone to offer suggestions.

[Lockepick]

I'm posting general interest!

[LordRod]

What about Gargoyles?

[AndyZ]

I'm rather reluctant to allow all the Bloodlines.  For one, there's a crazy amount of them, and it'd make it more difficult to have decent representations for the seven Camarilla clans when things will likely already be spread out over all the different Clans.  For another, Gargoyles are flying Masquerade breaches without all the roleplaying opportunities of the Nosferatu, and I'd be concerned just how well playing one would work in a sandbox game.

[LordRod]

Then I'll take my staple Ventrue MindFucker. :D

So still very interested :D

[wander]

I'm building a Vampire up now, even if you're not looking for characters now, it's basically so I have a vamp ready on my Notepad and have them saved for other vampire games that come up. :)

I think whatever Disciplines attract me the most will help with what Clan I choose, it's really hard to make a choice based just on their profiles, each one has something unique about them... I'm spoilt for choice!  ;D

[Vergil1989]

I should be able to find a PDF for the 20th Anniversary rulebook online somewhere, but I DO have a clanbook for both the Toreadors and the Followers of Set.  I'm actually writing a fanfiction story called Trouble With Gehenna over on Fanfiction.Net, despite the fact I don't know as much about VTM or Bloodlines as some people I imagine.  Still, I know enough to get by, and I've had fun reading about this particular variant of vampire and their supernatural cousins.  ;D  My point is, if I do make a character, chances are I'll likely do a Toreador or Followers of Set, not sure which, but I'd need a character sheet when you get a chance and probably a bit of help putting a character together.  I'm new, or to use an in-game term, recently 'Embraced', and I'd probably play a similar character idea, just someone trying to get by in the Camarilla.  ;D  Anyway, I hope this kicks off.  Adios and good to play with you again AndyZ.  See ya!

[AndyZ]

You can pick up the PDF right here ^_^ http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/94815/Vampire-The-Masquerade-20th-Anniversary-Edition

Price is a bit steep, but it's over 500 pages, so...

[LordRod]

Oh hey, I knew getting this when I got my mage 20th book would come in handy.  Neat. :D Should we be making chars? I mean we are still in interest phase...

[Blythe]

Blast, I told myself I'd wait before posting interest...but arrrgh I'm too interested to wait!

Definitely interested. Probably with a male Nosferatu of some sort~

[AndyZ]

Still in interest phase for now.  I mean to get started on a Worldbuilding thread but this weekend is going to be crazy for me and I don't trust family to leave me enough oxygen to think things through properly.

[Orange Marmalade]

Sounds like you've got plenty of interest :) We shall eagerly await world building and more info!

[AndyZ]

One thing I will note when I have the thread up, for those who don't know me well, is that constructive criticism is more than welcome.  I paid someone hundreds of dollars to look through my novel and find all the stuff, and I'm still not 100% on if the name I plan to use is any good or not.

[AndyZ]

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=249624.0

I have a ways to go before it'll have a strong city feel, but at least the basics, and setting down a place for people to give feedback.

[wander]

I want to make sure I'm doing freeby points right...

For example... Would I pay 2 freebies for a 2pt Background (as it's stated it's 1 freeby per dot), or by per dot is it done like 1 freeby for 1 dot, then 2 freebys for the 2nd, in an escalating cost manner, meaning it costs 3 freebies for 2pts in a Background?

EDIT: What also would the ruling be on an Anarch character?

[Orange Marmalade]

I want to make sure I'm doing freeby points right...

For example... Would I pay 2 freebies for a 2pt Background (as it's stated it's 1 freeby per dot), or by per dot is it done like 1 freeby for 1 dot, then 2 freebys for the 2nd, in an escalating cost manner, meaning it costs 3 freebies for 2pts in a Background?

EDIT: What also would the ruling be on an Anarch character?

Freebies are 'flat' fees, so to speak. So the cost is always the cost, regardless of going level 1 to 2, or 8 to 9. So in your case 2 freebie points gets you 2 dots towards whatever Background, regardless of its level.

[wander]

Cheers OM, that's helped greatly with character building... I spent a load of freebs on abilities, I was debating if I had room for an extra Discipline dot or not.  ;D

I'm really digging the options the Giovanni have presently, due to the ghosts/shadowland stuff... I am a big Wraith fan after all. I'm not saying I'll be going Giovanni, just saying they're pretty interesting to me. :)

[AndyZ]

I know that Followers of Set and Lasombra will go Camarilla sometimes and that Tzimisce never do.  Someone will have to check for me regarding the other three Independent clans.

Also, you can be secretly Anarch sympathetic, but you should really be Camarilla at start.

[Blythe]

Just inquiring, Andy, since there are sometimes Merits & Flaws I really like from the Revised edition and one Clanbook--would you be willing to consider allowing Merits or Flaws not mentioned in the V20 book if we ran them by you first for your approval?

Is totes fine if the answer is no, but I wanted to ask!

[AndyZ]

Hmmm...I think I'll allow them from the Camarilla clans on a case by case basis.

[Vergil1989]

Oddly enough, that story I'm writing has a Tzimisce working for the Camarlla, although her reasons for doing so are....unique, shall we say.  My point is, while in most, probably nearly all cases, such a thing would be unheard of, it might not be as impossible as you make it sound.  ;D

That said, I'm leaning towards Toreador myself, and after glancing at this book you provided me Andy, I couldn't help but laugh at some of the Stereotype quotes from each of the clans lol.  Anyway, I do have one question.  How in the hell are we going to get our character sheets posted here exactly?

[Orange Marmalade]

Oddly enough, that story I'm writing has a Tzimisce working for the Camarlla, although her reasons for doing so are....unique, shall we say.  My point is, while in most, probably nearly all cases, such a thing would be unheard of, it might not be as impossible as you make it sound.  ;D

Nothing is impossible, very true. The rules from most GMs for that is simply because the Camarilla isn't the Camarilla when half the players are playing Sabbat clans or similar :) Plus in canon it pretty much almost never happens outside of very powerful elders, because anyone smaller simply gets killed.

[wander]

The character I've been building up is swaying to Clan Tremere now, at default 13th generation.

[Vergil1989]

I'm having a hell of a time deciding on my Nature and Demeanor lol.  I know kinda what I want, but I'm not sure how to classify it I guess.  She's a writer, leaning more on the intellectual side.  My stats so far are pretty even with the most points in Social, Mental, and Physical, in that order.  She's no fighter but she can get her hands dirty and be okay with that.  Her thing though is being seen, being noticed, and while she's not manipulative as so many Toreador are, but she's not stupid either.  She's probably the 'noblest' bloodsucker you're come across is what I'm going for, just not sure how to put that into Nature and Demeanor I guess.

[wander]

I found it tough myself and I may end up changing mine, I'm currently tweaking Flaws atm.

I recommend to pick one for your Demeanour that fits more how you'd roleplay her. Then your Nature is the mechanic based stat, so you should decide that based partly what they're like behind closed doors and how you want her to reclaim Willpower.

Vague and you probably know that already, but hopefully it can help you decide more. :)

[LordRod]

Sounds like we are in char building mode already.  I'll get to work.

[wander]

I'm pretty much completed with my Tremere vampire now.

Just doing final tweaks, mainly checking if the Nature and Demeanour still fit the stats I've laid out now. Also pondering on the 'Deep Sleeper' flaw or the Tremere's 'Arcane Curse' at 1pt for their final Flaw.

[Vergil1989]

I still got a shit ton to do on my Toreador.

[Vergil1989]

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=BgjSf4t-q7AA

Just thought I'd share this and get everyone pumped lol.  Enjoy folks, there's a music vid with a similar theme I've come across as well.

[Blythe]

I'm nowhere near ready to build a character; I'm most likely going wait to see what else Andy'll work on in World Building first. (Read a bit of it, which is looking good so far!)

[wander]

I've made a Tremere who's like a kind of hipster son of old money that happens to be an infernalist. Gave him Thaumaturgy 2 in the Path of Corruption, because elliquiy!  :D Kinda happy to use Dominate with commands like 'Strip!' or 'Suck!'  ;D

I very nearly went with a Bi-Polar Malkavian, though their Disciplines are not ones that fit my playstyle too well and as great as it would be to write them, the inevitable manic Frenzies and how unused I am to Malkavians would mean they'd probably not see too many nights...  ::)

So instead I went with the corrupting Tremere who may aid others with his Thaumaturgy to help with those nasty trust issues the Tremere seem to face... Also I like their relationships with blood bonds...

Props to the Gentleman Gamer's Guide to Vampires videos on youtube, that really helped me nail down the details of the character and make them someone that hopefully won't be completely destroyed on his first visit to a larger gathering...  ::)

[AndyZ]

Got a few more locations up.  If anyone has requests, let me know.

[Vergil1989]

Um...I don't see anything added Andy.

[AndyZ]

>.< Forgot to hit enter

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=249624.0

[Vergil1989]

Lol it's cool, it happens.  ;D

[LordRod]

So, do you want charas at this point? Char concepts? Anything?

[AndyZ]

Right now I'm trying to set up the setting, so if there's anything that people would particularly like in that regard, it would help to either offer suggestions or request information.

For example, if you plan on going for Keeper of Elysium and have a brilliant idea for an Elysium, by all means post it up in the World Building thread.

Sorry I'm slowing down, everyone...

[wander]

I couldn't see anywhere a rule in the book about Dominate and similar powers not working on lower generations, is that still the case or is it changed now?

Because I'm pondering on swapping a point or two into the Generation background to cover my character if at 13th generation he can only affect his own gen and the thin-bloods... Since they have Thaumaturgy with the Path of Corruption as their main discipline and I want them to have it as something that they garner prestation from, having it only work on the thin-blooded is kinda shitty and worthless.

[AndyZ]

It's listed at the very end of the Dominate listing.

• Vampires:It is impossible to Dominate another Kindred who is of stronger Blood.  The vampire must be of an equal or higher Generation than the target for the powers to be effective. Scholars of the Kindred condition suspect that this is one of the protections Caine put in place to protect himself from the whims of his willful childer. A faction of those who believe this theory also maintain that this implies that Caine himself employed the Discipline of Dominate.

It's also worth considering that it'll always work on Mortals, so if you have Forgetful Mind, it can be quite useful to have other vampires know you have it and can help erase Masquerade breaches for favors.

[wander]

I have no idea how I missed that... Blame it on skim-reading...

Perhaps Dominate 3 will be something to buy with some experience points. I have Path of Corruption 1 which makes people change their minds, that can come in handy in a variety of ways, plus Path of Corruption 2 is good for character assassinations and general blackmail fuel gathering, plus we're on elliquiy so you can imagine the awesome such a spell can do...  >:)

I'll for sure lower their generation... Very likely make them 11th Generation as is with their other backgrounds. Of course starting experience likely will change things too.

[Vergil1989]

I hate doing this, but I think I might be getting in over my head with this.  I have no experience with this system, and I'm having all sorts of trouble trying to make heads or tails of just the character sheet part of it.  At this point, I think I'm just going to bow out and hope someone might be willing to do a solo system game with me first before I try a group setting.  Still, I wish you guys good luck and I'll likely read along if nothing else.  See ya folks.

[wander]

Feel free to PM me Vergil as I'm pretty experienced at character generation, less so the setting though perhaps I could help if wanted.

[AndyZ]

So what other settings should I ponder?  Anyone have any particular interests or desires for where they can see their char hanging out?

[wander]

I could see my character as hanging in a nightclub/bar with their herd...

I haven't played Vampire in a while and that was Requiem, so can't think of interests/desires immediately, though I have been watching a playthrough of Bloodlines and there may be some inspirational stuff in there. :)

[LordRod]

I can think of some that would be very interesting

Versalles right before the revolutionary War
Russia 3 years before the Russian Revolution
Washington DC 1812

[wander]

The (admittedly nwod) book Dark Eras is filled with different ages games can be set in.

[RubySlippers]

I'm converting a pre-20th Anniversary Malkavian to the v20 rules here is her old character sheet and basically she is a Celebrant to herself since you should be honored having her in your presence being the most beautiful thing in the world in her own mind. Her derangement is built on a common personality disorder she is fully functionally however has issues. And a mortal derangement in a Malkav's Child can prove very dark indeed.

Here is the basic sheet but plan changes most points were to boost Attributes with some spent on other things.

Old Sheet for an idea but will make necessary v20 Changes, are Clan Book things allowed I need to know so changes will be game appropriate:
[urlhttp://sheetgen.dalines.net/sheet/45141][/url]

[Blythe]

Afraid I gotta pull out of this one--I just can't really think of a suitable character idea at the moment. >_>;

Happy gaming to y'all, though. ^^

[AndyZ]

I apologize to everyone.

I don't have the setting books in question, and attempts to create my own setting have only really met with failure.

Sometimes my creativity just seems to want to take a nap, so I can reuse stuff but coming up with new things seems to be like pulling teeth.

If anyone wants to take over on this idea, by all means.

[RubySlippers]

Anyone up for a chronicle set in St. Louis in 1850, before the Civil War began, its a Northern city but on the border so will have an active part to play in the war.

Characters would be new neonates and I'm running this now table-top so could work in the games here.

[wander]

I might be up for that, I'd like to use my Tremere in one game at least...  XD

[RubySlippers]

They have a small chapter in the city, going for quality over quantity, there is currently two elders, two ancilla and likely a neonate added the Prince is allowing Elders to each make one neonate and a few others such as the Sheriff an Ancilla. He is working to reinforce and add to the cities overall Kindred population due to an increasing population. Simply put they need more Kindred to help run and protect things in the city. So there is a rare opportunity for a smart Coterie to make their mark as a group.

Current threats include the Anarchs who are around, the Sabbat has been sending small young packs into the region and some werewolves are around.

Note this will be historically run so if you have issues with period racism and discrimination you might not want to play this and is only going to be used for the setting, my views are not the game setting views.

[wander]

I'd still be up for that. If noone else shows interest I may like to do this as a possible solo, though I'll be patient and see if anyone else shows an interest too.

[RubySlippers]

I'd prefer a small coterie, maybe three players.

[Lady Ren]

Can I play? I mean I've played the pc game, not the tabletop version, but if its like D&D (I'm such a nerd) than the translation should be a breeze, right?

[wander]

The system is a little different to D&D, though I actually find character generation in V:tM and most White Wolf games to actually be pretty simple. That said, I'm not the GM so it's not up to me though I'd say if you know how character advancement worked in Bloodlines, it may not be too hard for the GM to walk you through making a character sheet. It would help to own a copy of Vampire:the Masquerade 20th edition though.

[RubySlippers]

Well its not that hard to do and we have more experienced players to help, on-line there is plenty of free information on clans and powers the rest is simple number crunching. I'm going to want players to do the sheets online at Dalines and flesh it out here with notes and so on.

Running down the Camarilla Options the vampires are pretty easy.

Caitiff - no clan your likely a weaker vampire and considered trash but can do fun things like invent new disciplines and even get many clan specific ones since you develop powers largely from trial and error or what you picked up from movies or books. There is actually a go to person for them the Ventrue Elsbeth Dantovich also tends to take care if issues they are having and she is an elder and treats them decently considering. As a Mentor she is 3 Dots she is not leader of her clan but has enough respect to be treated that well.

Brujah - gang bangers, thugs and poets and scholars and freedom fighters they tend to be more brash (Lost Boys Movie vamps)

Gangrel - shapeshifters who are more earthy and can commune and command beasts and take damage these are able in advanced levels to take animal form and become mist.

Malkavians - all are insane but can be functionally so or not, clan power includes making other nuts.

Nosferatu - grotesque formed vampires. (Nosferatu movie or the head vampire in Salem's Lot)

Tremere - vampire blood sorcerers largely with very few exceptions.

Toreador - the beautiful people and artists and socially very gifted. (Vampire Chronicles vamps)

Ventrue - rich, powerful, refined and the leaders by default in many Camarilla cities and if not ruling will be powers to go to get things done.

Oh and although I have no cap on merits banned outright are Unbondable and True Faith.

And we are using the Revised VtM Rules.

[wander]

Okay, well with this new info on how the game would work, I'm going to withdraw my interest at this time. Not a fan of off-site character sheets and I'd prefer to use VtM 20 as my reasons. :)

[RubySlippers]

I can use v20 if people want I have access to several versions of the rules, the merit bans are simply to keep people from abusing the game mechanics. It won't matter that much. Most of the elders are not fully sheet made out detailed since your not likely to be able to risk attacking anyone who is  respectable Kindred. And if you want to post a sheet here you can I try to make players happy. But I do prefer Revised my Chronicle uses it and I prefer to have Dodge and other skills used. You can have hobby ones to I'm not opposed to ones not listed.