The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

[Deamonbane]

I won't go into the physics of it (Like, a full-powered punch to the chest either sees crumpling or a punch sheer through said chest, not flying). It lacks the kind of visually pleasing kind of fights that they had in Daredevil. Which is explainable, of course, in lack of training. A brawler would make more sense in both JJ and what's-his-name's way of fighting. But if they were going with realistic fighting, I would have liked if they had gone all the way. If they're gonna have realistic fighting styles, why go with the showy physics? That's my only eye-roller in the whole thing so far. Incredible, intense and nail-biting all the way.

[Mathim]

What makes no sense to me is how, in the most critical moments where they need to seriously put down those opponents, when adrenaline should be in no short supply, I see nobody's jaw cracking and blood spurting from any blows to the face, I see no one being headbutted which would surely lead to unconsciousness in the weaker party, etc., so for a superhuman of Captain America-like level, regardless of finesse, they should have no trouble whatsoever taking down a group of thugs or mercs, whether they're armed or not. Also Team Jones seemed pathetically low on arms and slow on many occasions where it can't be excused. It was almost like an endless cycle of Wile E. Coyote's best laid plans failing over and over to catch the Road Runner and injuring the poor coyote in the process.

Also the PG-13 sex made me cringe. Seriously? With all the dark, seriously pornographic level violence and other themes, they couldn't grow a pair and show a pair? LOL, that sounded pretty good there. But really, they disappointed me by showing a bunch of humping under a blanket instead of going the HBO route and showing some T&A. Hell, I wouldn't have even objected to them showing man parts as long as they were not pretending that depicting actual sex is where they can justifiably draw the line.

[SapphireStar]

Just read an article regarding Guardians of the Galaxy.  The article was about the yet to appear Starlord's father. It was hinted at in the article that Starlord's father might possibly be

Starlord's Father

Mar-Vell. The Kree Super Soldier who had come to Earth to survey the inhabitants. Also the same Mar-vell who took the name Captain Marvel who has ties with Carol Danvers. She wound up becoming a Kree/Human hybrid infused with Mar-vell's DNA and powers after Mar-vell's enemy used her as bait and detonated an alien bomb.

So, with the hinting at who the father is, we could see this linking with the upcomine Captain Marvel movie.

[Mathim]

Just read an article regarding Guardians of the Galaxy.  The article was about the yet to appear Starlord's father. It was hinted at in the article that Starlord's father might possibly be

Starlord's Father

Mar-Vell. The Kree Super Soldier who had come to Earth to survey the inhabitants. Also the same Mar-vell who took the name Captain Marvel who has ties with Carol Danvers. She wound up becoming a Kree/Human hybrid infused with Mar-vell's DNA and powers after Mar-vell's enemy used her as bait and detonated an alien bomb.

So, with the hinting at who the father is, we could see this linking with the upcomine Captain Marvel movie.

I will point out that Nova Prime confirmed that Peter Quill's biological father was from a species that had not been recorded in their archives and therefore could not be a Kree, and also that if Peter was half-Kree, he'd likely be a whole hell of a lot stronger than he is, since he is more or less of normal human strength from what we saw of his few non-weapon-assisted fights.

I keep hearing conflicting reports about when the damn Civil War trailer will be released and I really don't want to wait for Star Wars to see it since I've lost all interest in that franchise. At this rate it will be summer before we see a Doctor Strange trailer, and that one comes out a year from now.

[TheGlyphstone]

I will point out that Nova Prime confirmed that Peter Quill's biological father was from a species that had not been recorded in their archives and therefore could not be a Kree, and also that if Peter was half-Kree, he'd likely be a whole hell of a lot stronger than he is, since he is more or less of normal human strength from what we saw of his few non-weapon-assisted fights.

I keep hearing conflicting reports about when the damn Civil War trailer will be released and I really don't want to wait for Star Wars to see it since I've lost all interest in that franchise. At this rate it will be summer before we see a Doctor Strange trailer, and that one comes out a year from now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVdV-lxRPFo

[SapphireStar]

There are several possibilities. The Kree could have erased knowledge of their race from known records with the Nova Corp. Like the Green Lantern Corp, the Nova Corp took in other races and possibile a Kree agent wiped the records. Skrulls haven't been mentioned and they were a prominent enemy of the Kree which lead to the Kree-Skrull war. Shi'Ar haven't been mentioned yet.

Starlord could not have come into his "powers" yet. Throughout the Marvel comics, characters came into their powers at various stages. Most in their teenage years, some later living their lives as normal humans till a traumatic event triggered their powers. So it is possible that his powers have not yet been triggered which could happen in the next movie. Or, the flip side, he does not have powers regardless of who his father is, as it is also possible. Look at Graydon Creed, his mother was Mystique and father was Sabertooth, and Graydon was born 100 percent human.

[Mathim]

There are several possibilities. The Kree could have erased knowledge of their race from known records with the Nova Corp. Like the Green Lantern Corp, the Nova Corp took in other races and possibile a Kree agent wiped the records. Skrulls haven't been mentioned and they were a prominent enemy of the Kree which lead to the Kree-Skrull war. Shi'Ar haven't been mentioned yet.

Starlord could not have come into his "powers" yet. Throughout the Marvel comics, characters came into their powers at various stages. Most in their teenage years, some later living their lives as normal humans till a traumatic event triggered their powers. So it is possible that his powers have not yet been triggered which could happen in the next movie. Or, the flip side, he does not have powers regardless of who his father is, as it is also possible. Look at Graydon Creed, his mother was Mystique and father was Sabertooth, and Graydon was born 100 percent human.

But Xandar was at war with the Kree for forever, and only just recently came to a peace treaty that Ronan ignored. There's no way the Nova or any advanced race in the galaxy wouldn't know about the Kree. Even if they were genetically engineered, there's still very little chance that would fool them since even Sif from Asgard seemed to know about the Kree's Inhuman genetic experiments on Earth, so that sort of thing is not unheard of. But you do have a point about his powers not awakening, although from what I understand, he doesn't really have any. But since the Kree are simply superhuman without the need of additional genetic engineering (we saw one in action during Agents of SHIELD season 2 giving an Asgardian a run for her money) it's unlikely that would have slipped through when Peter was being scanned in prison. I think it's nice for it to be a mystery that doesn't have any easy answers.

Also, speaking of Guardians of the Galaxy, they cast someone I'd never heard of as Mantis, though from what I gather she's not extraterrestrial in origin, so I'm wondering how she ends up way out there. I mean, unless Peter's just been making pit-stops back on Earth every now and then for parts to repair and restore his Awesome Mix sound system.

[Skynet]

More of a fan thing than an official movie, but it's semi-related to this thread so here I go! XD

[Mathim]

More of a fan thing than an official movie, but it's semi-related to this thread so here I go! XD

You know, it seems to me like a lot of the guys who work on these fan videos and are REALLY FREAKING GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO should band together and pool their talent and resources if they're not going to be recruited into any existing studios. Kickstarter can only go so far at funding projects like these, and some of this stuff is better than many of the crap projects Hollywood is pumping out. Those guys who did that Punisher: Dirty Laundry video should have been given some kind of award and high-paid positions in an existing studio for that 10-minute masterpiece.

[SapphireStar]

Well, if what several articles is saying is true, the CW is pulling the plug on Legends of Tomorrow. Saying that it probably won't get a second season because it is "Too Expensive". Really? The CW is part of an umbrella network of corporations which includes, HBO, TNT, and other major entities not to mention DC comics and Warner Bros. HBO and TNT seem to be doing well with their budgets. Game of Thrones has to have a sizable one for location filming. Got to get the cast and crew there somehow? Maybe,  Hmm, I wonder if these news articles are in part because of the slate of movies the studio wants to do, so, can't have certain characters now for the tv shows? Or, the fact that Legends of Tomorrow is taking the Vampire Diaries slot, pushing Vampire Diaries and the Originals to Friday which goes up against Grimm. That or the CW needs to get new fiancial managers.

[Mathim]

Well, if what several articles is saying is true, the CW is pulling the plug on Legends of Tomorrow. Saying that it probably won't get a second season because it is "Too Expensive". Really? The CW is part of an umbrella network of corporations which includes, HBO, TNT, and other major entities not to mention DC comics and Warner Bros. HBO and TNT seem to be doing well with their budgets. Game of Thrones has to have a sizable one for location filming. Got to get the cast and crew there somehow? Maybe,  Hmm, I wonder if these news articles are in part because of the slate of movies the studio wants to do, so, can't have certain characters now for the tv shows? Or, the fact that Legends of Tomorrow is taking the Vampire Diaries slot, pushing Vampire Diaries and the Originals to Friday which goes up against Grimm. That or the CW needs to get new fiancial managers.

If it's a question of budget, there's a simple solution, hire better writers so that the filler parts of the episodes that aren't special effects intensive don't bore and turn people off. Or have them be creative about HOW powers and such are used so they can still impress but either last shorter, or get spread out so that the same duration of effect gets cut up so you can use it at different parts of the episode instead of a long scene of the same effect (or maybe just at the finale). Amazing how many problems can be solved by better writers. Movie had a shitty script? Shoulda had better writers. Amateur director did a shit job on that last film? Shoulda had a better writer with more clout who could prevent too much deviation and thus less opportunity to screw up the source material. Ah well. But yes, different financial managers are a no-brainer. To even have allowed 'too expensive' to be given as a reason shows weakness, cowardice and greed, and you'd think a network doing pretty well for itself so far would know better than to roll over and show their belly like that. They can of course shorten the duration of the series, or spread out time between episode releases so that instead of every week, it's every two weeks or something like South Park often does. Now that Marvel has cut off the gangrenous financial manager Ike Perlmutter, we'll likely be seeing some improvements in Marvel film and TV. So if the CW isn't following their example the way Warner Bros. is precariously attempting to follow the MCU's formula, we can expect them to feel the backlash of that too. They may not be the powerhouse that Marvel is right now, but Marvel's got 4 shows running at the moment and one more is up in the air (Most Wanted) while two more are in the pipeline, as well as a shorter mini-series once those last two are done. To say the CW can't crank out a third one that basically expands their universe to its zenith is just pathetic. Think how much better ratings they'd get than just Arrow or Flash alone. Hell, I might even get a TV plan with some company if it means I can watch it instead of waiting for it to come out on Netflix.

[mia h]

I don't think they'll pull the plug on LoT but they have already announced that it is going to be an anthology show, so don't expect many of the characters in season 1 to be in season 2.
As for costs making comparisons with HBO or Netfilx etc. doesn't work because they have completely different income models. Making comparisons to Agents of Shield and Agent Carter are closer to the mark, both shows run on ABC and pull in around 8 million viewers an episode (and Supergirl is doing similar numbers). In contrast Arrow & Flash are getting half the number the viewers but for a small network 4 million viewers is damn good news. Because CW is small the advertising rates are going to be lower so I'd guess each episode of Arrow is made for about 40% of the budget of AoS and the same will go for LoT which looks like it is going to be FX heavy which makes it expensive. Because Arrow\Flash\LoT are all made by the same production company they've probably been able to make some efficiency savings.
If LoT does get dropped because of cost then CW's financial management is doing what it's paid for in not producing loss making TV. Actually CW's biggest problem right now is that it's making too much successful TV, it's mandate is to produce 10 of original programming a week and right now it's having problems fitting all of it's successful shows in to the schedule.

[SapphireStar]

Its not just that, but every once and a while one of the magazines comes out with a list of how much actors on tv shows get paid per episode. It can be anywhere from $50,000 per episode to almost $500,000. Multiply that by say thirteen episodes, which makes that $650,000 for at least one of the main cast. So, there goes pretty much a major chunk of a shows budget. Which is why most shows have been held up during contract negotiations with various actors.

But, what has me scratching my head is these articles coming out. They are getting fans all excited about the show, and this news could make fans run for the hills worried that the first season isn't going to be good, so why bother? Then ratings will tank, show will be pulled and certain shows with the same basic story elements will take the time slot. I agree, they can structure a show to which character with powers can appear, when powers can be used and how much. The Flash has been pretty good about that. Like the shapeshifter episode in season one. A few shifting effects spread out, but largely using the same actors. You'd think they'd be behind the show because they have found hits with the Flash, and Arrow dominating their time slots. Supergirl is an effects heavy show as they are bringing more superpowered characters there. But, I also agree if they skip most of the filler stuff, keep the romance to a minimum and focus on the key story elements the show might have a chance.

Though perhaps another reason for this "worry" is that another article came out saying that The Vampire Diaries and the Originals is sinking in ratings, and being moved to Friday to make way for Legends of Tomorrow is basically one last stop before being cancelled. The CW probably worried about losing another major audience, so, their weighing their options: Keep The Originals and The Vampire Diaries who have an established fanbase, or risk a roll of the dice that Legends of Tomorrow will be a hit.

On another note: There is a rumor circulating about a Green Lantern movie reboot, though it is going to be more like Lethal Weapon in space. What?!

[mia h]

I think the biggest thing that's going to effect LoT's future happens this week with the Flash\Arrow crossover episodes, if they tank then they have problems. As for TVD again it's all about numbers, it's an old show where some of the bigger names have left. CW won't be expecting new viewers in season 7 but they hopefully they can hang on to the current audience, which means less than 2 million viewers. Now LoT should draw in most Flash\Arrow viewers, add in some new viewers because it's a new show and they'll be looking for 3 1/2 - 4 million viewers, so double what TVD can deliver. Actual by moving TVD to Fridays there are lower expectations for viewing figures so it has a better chance of being renewed for season 8.

The Green Lantern movie isn't a rumor, all of the seven Justice Leaguers have got a movie scheduled for release. Green Lantern is penciled in for 2020

[Mathim]

They just have to be smarter about it, then. You'd think in this day and age things would be so streamlined it would be easy to find the cheapest way to do SFX even if it looks cheesy (still does even now, at least on the Flash in many instances) so how it ends up costing so much to make these if it doesn't get eaten up by actors and on-set stuff, doesn't make sense unless all the CGI budget goes into paying the people working on the computers to animate everything.

[SapphireStar]

And, The Flash uses the MOCAP system for certain characters who are nonhuman like Gorilla Grodd and King Shark. Considering that they have to pay an actor to be fitted with the special suit for the motion capture and they have to through each movement per shot, doing it over again for a wide shot, close up, etc. That probably takes at least a while. The actors on set have to act according to markers and/or stunt actors in place of the CGI ones. It boggles the mind that with the technology of computers and the change in CGI you'd think it would be faster, but it seems to take even longer then when they went old school with special effects. Rendering depending on the power of the computers being used could take hours/days to complete.

It just seems the CW is putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. On one hand they're exciting the fans with the trailers for Legends of Tomorrow and the upcoming crossover, while on the other hand complaining that it too expensive to make a second season. Maybe the CW needs to get completely restructured from the top down. If you don't have faith in what you are making, how can you maintain viewer loyalty?

[Mathim]

And, The Flash uses the MOCAP system for certain characters who are nonhuman like Gorilla Grodd and King Shark. Considering that they have to pay an actor to be fitted with the special suit for the motion capture and they have to through each movement per shot, doing it over again for a wide shot, close up, etc. That probably takes at least a while. The actors on set have to act according to markers and/or stunt actors in place of the CGI ones. It boggles the mind that with the technology of computers and the change in CGI you'd think it would be faster, but it seems to take even longer then when they went old school with special effects. Rendering depending on the power of the computers being used could take hours/days to complete.

It just seems the CW is putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. On one hand they're exciting the fans with the trailers for Legends of Tomorrow and the upcoming crossover, while on the other hand complaining that it too expensive to make a second season. Maybe the CW needs to get completely restructured from the top down. If you don't have faith in what you are making, how can you maintain viewer loyalty?

Exactly. If you undermine the very thing that is seemingly the biggest draw for viewers, not only do you shake loyalty but you also fail to bring in new ones by failing to entice with these promises of new shiny things. What if they just used cheap sci-fi backgrounds to do some 'alien planet' scenes but then go low-tech with everything else for a few scenes, like if they show Thanagar for the Hawkman/Hawkgirl stuff? I dunno, depends on what direction they decide to go in, I suppose, but again, that's all down to good writing...

[SapphireStar]

And good management. A show is only as good as those running it. Right now, according to the trailer, Legends of Tomorrow is about jumping through time to try to stop Vandal Savage from taking over the world. Rip Hunter stated that in the future, Vandal Savage has taken over the world completely.

[Mathim]

And good management. A show is only as good as those running it. Right now, according to the trailer, Legends of Tomorrow is about jumping through time to try to stop Vandal Savage from taking over the world. Rip Hunter stated that in the future, Vandal Savage has taken over the world completely.

Well I've only just finished Arrow Season 3 and haven't moved on to Season 4 or Flash Season 2 yet so I don't know who Rip Hunter is, but I certainly know about Vandal Savage. What a great low-tech villain, right? Except for the technology he uses, that can get complex. But just him being immortal, that's easy to pull off.

[SapphireStar]

Rip Hunter was mentioned in the first season of The Flash by Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne in the finale when he commented on the time travel sphere that was built. He said "Rip Hunter would be proud." Apparently, Rip Hunter is a time traveler and according to his bio, his father is Booster Gold.

Vandal Savage is a perfect choice for a villain. He doesn't really need weapons to combat superheroes.

According to reports, Roy Harper will be returning to Arrow. Not sure if it is in time for the crossover event or not. Interestingly according to the old Vandal Savage bio, Roy Harper/Arsenal is his descendant. Now, wouldn't that be an interesting twist on a story for the tv show?!

[mia h]

The crossover starts tomorrow night and Roy isn't back until episode 12, which should be a couple of episode after the mid season break and the reveal of who's in the grave.

[Mathim]

Urgh, I want those seasons to be over with already so they can be put up on Netflix.

I know everyone on youtube is clamoring for Emily Blunt to be cast as Carol Danvers but it looks like Olivia Wilde, who had been my first choice, and who I didn't even know was in the running until recently, has got a fair shot at it. Also even though I could have sworn they had already confirmed Aaron Arkin(?) as Danny Rand/Iron Fist, that may have been retracted given the uncertain nature of his show's status.

Also, can't recall if this was already mentioned, but actress Pom Klementieff is apparently going to be portraying the MCU's version of Mantis in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

[SapphireStar]

Okay, so details are emerging on the "new" trailers for Batman v Superman. Apparently, one scene has Superman walking down a line of cult-like worshippers kneeling before him. Um, okay, so is this going to be more of an evil Justice Lords version?

Think might have the time periods figured out for the Wonder Woman movie. It'll probably start in Ancient Greece as one of the images released showed her in a hooded cloak. The next time will be the thirties-forties where she meets Steve Trevor then ends with her appearing in the present day.

[Mathim]

Okay, so details are emerging on the "new" trailers for Batman v Superman. Apparently, one scene has Superman walking down a line of cult-like worshippers kneeling before him. Um, okay, so is this going to be more of an evil Justice Lords version?

Think might have the time periods figured out for the Wonder Woman movie. It'll probably start in Ancient Greece as one of the images released showed her in a hooded cloak. The next time will be the thirties-forties where she meets Steve Trevor then ends with her appearing in the present day.

That wasn't the only thing that made it look like he was the object of worship. People making his symbol on their rooftops to signal that they needed his help, him standing in the middle of that Dia De Los Muertos facepainted crowd...probably a bit of Lex Luthor's plan to exploit him, getting people riled up into a frenzy of worship to off-set the people who want the 'illegal alien' to 'go home'.

[SapphireStar]

Maybe its just me, but the overall feel doesn't feel like the original Superman. I mean, one, he didn't kill. He was called the boy scout because he was good and held to a moral code. Several references called him the symbol of light and hope. These movies feel like the total opposite. Have the movie executives and the new director read any of the original source material?