Kindred of the East (interest check)

[Rook Seidhr]

So. It's complicated and weird and the setting material treats China, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines, etc. as if they were one unified culture which is really, really stupid. But I've always had a fondness for it. I'm just not weeaboo educated in Japanese or Chinese or Thai or Malay or Pinoy or etc. culture enough to run a game set anywhere in that part of the world. I can fake it well enough to play, I think, but not well enough to run.

Anyone else feel like playing someone so bad the Thousand Hells couldn't hold them? Anyone feel like GMing a KotE game? Must be willing to supply more reasonable cultural background than is provided in the books.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I would adore playing such a game, but doubt I could run it.

[Elven Sex Goddess]

Oh I am so very tempted.   Having been a former ST at various OWOD sites, as a KotE ST and also with WtA.     I have a special fondness for the game.  Unfortunately I am quite busy to take on such a task.  Through I am interest in playing if another can be found to run the game.   As its a great setting to use and play in.  Such a multiple level of complexity.   

[Muse]

*Smiles*  Ah, if only you weren't going for vampires.  ^_^;; 

Henjokai, Strike Force 0...  So many awesome concepts in this part of the World of Darkness. 

Best of luck too you! 

[Braioch]

-slides in too quickly and slams into wall-

Ow.

I can't run the game, being busy with RL stuff and having never been an ST in any WoD setting. But when I say I love this setting, I mean I really freaking love this setting. (I own every source book for KotE >,>) And know it fairly well, so I would be very interested if a ST could be found.

[Marie Reynolds]

Oh god a gm for this would make me very happy this is one of my favorite wod games!

[VonDoom]

-slides in too quickly and slams into wall-

Ow.

I can't run the game, being busy with RL stuff and having never been an ST in any WoD setting. But when I say I love this setting, I mean I really freaking love this setting. (I own every source book for KotE >,>) And know it fairly well, so I would be very interested if a ST could be found.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Well, I HAVE been ST for VtM before, but everything besides that. Getting all the books long after the line was basically gone was quite a chore, especially Dharma Book Thrashing Dragons for some reason was really difficult to find for a reasonable price. And don't even get me started on the 'changeling' equivalent. Can't remember its name right now.

[Braioch]

Really? I got that sourcebook for like...5 bucks on Amazon

It's the old mage Tradition books that are ridiculous. (I am not paying you 40 bucks for a Verbena sourcebook mister Amazon seller!)

[VonDoom]

Probably different timeframes ... it was quite awhile back and I'm over in Europe, so the shipping was also a factor.

[Rook Seidhr]

Eh. Not much hope of this, but…it's been a month, I'll give it a bump.

[Muse]

Well, with a group like this, I'll aply to play a vampire, but i'm certainly not qualified to run it!

[Rook Seidhr]

Bump. Hope springs eternal.

[MadJackal]

The Kindred of the East, that's the Kuei-Jin right ?

[Rook Seidhr]

Yes, though that name is the sort of thing only someone who had no appreciation of Chinese or Japanese language or history would make up. Which is why I want a GM who knows something about the subject matter, to correct the stupidity.

[Marie Reynolds]

I could assist an st since i have some familiarity with asian culture. I do not think i could run a game cause a running forum games would play to my weak points as an st.

[Rook Seidhr]

Aaaahhh…why the heck not. Bump.

[Elven Sex Goddess]

I would like to see a kindred of the east game.   For it has its own distinctive flavor.

As with the Kindred, Kuei-jin belong to different social classes, but there the similarity ends. The two main criteria for status among Kindred, namely age and generation, occupy different positions in Kuei-jin society. Because there is no Embrace or Curse for the Kuei-jin, there exists no generation. Physical age is respected in twofold fashion, as both a reflection of one's ability to survive for several centuries and a measure of significant progress toward fulfilling one's Dharma.

In essence, Kuei-jin society is predicated upon an intertwining of spiritual advancement and political initiative. Within courts and Dharmas, and amid the larger Kuei-jin community, social status marks a vampire's communion with the proximity to the Great Cycle. The particular categories that Kuei-jin use to describe their social place demonstrate the importance placed upon spiritual completeness. As a Kuei-jin progresses along his Dharma, he earns higher status within soceity, but also receives responsibilities and obligations that he is expected to fulfill. 

Whether a game is run in say the green courts in Korea,   or the golden courts of China.   Or perhaps in Japan with such as house Bishoman or the Southern courts and the mighty penangallans.

Unlike wu, courts exist primarily to meet social and political needs. Courts commonly form when allied wu gather to fulfill a particular purpose or purposes, such as governing a region, advancing political agenda in the mortal world or guarding a dragon nest. Over time, these various courts develop their own rituals, traditions, power bases, and mortal smokescreens. Courts are most similar to such Western institutions as the anarchs, the Harpies or the Inconnu; in some ways, they can be though of as extended (and not always harmonious) coteries.

The court dynamic is one factor I think to truly bring such a game to life a coterie that has a ongoing objective that draws those along different dharmas to work together.   

[Braioch]

I am still incredibly down for this, just again, as a player not a GM lol

[VonDoom]

I, too, am still interested as a player.

[Mnemaxa]

....I'll bite. 

How many interested players do we have, and what kind of situations would the players be truly interested in?  I am familiar enough with Chinese mythology and culture to run a Golden Courts game with a cushion of wuxia stylization, and I have an abiding fondness for the Kuei-jin (the only kind of vampire game I can tolerate, really). 

The main problem will be putting together a wu, as I have the sneaking suspicion that even attempting to put together a traditional wu will be next t impossible.  But, if the interested players would be kind enough to post a very brief character concept (VERY brief, like a sentence or two!) and their preferred dharma path (no heretics allowed, sorry) I'll make a determination of whether or not I can run something effective for it. 

Also let me know if you folks would prefer system+dice, or system+no dice (such as used by Amber Diceless, where I would decide contests based on your dots, your character decisions, and your levels of chi as 'randomizers').  I could run the game no system or even no system+dice if people would like more of a collective storytelling situation with an overarching plot woven into it.

[Rook Seidhr]

How many interested players do we have, and what kind of situations would the players be truly interested in?

Count me as still very interested.

Situations: shadow wars against other wu, real war against the Scorpion Eaters, trying to survive court politics, trying to understand one's dharma. Spirit world stuff is OK but probably won't be my character's strong point (unusually for me). Not interested in fighting Cainites or in more than minimal crossover involvement from other creature types.

Concept: corrupt cop who was executed by his criminal masters for failing them. Preferred dharma: Thrashing Dragon.

I am not interested in "systemless" games. I am willing to play without dice (or dice-lite) if that is the consensus, but would prefer to use dice.

[VonDoom]

Still very interested as well. I'd prefer to use the actual KotE rules and system. My main focus in most RPs goes towards social scenes and challenges, though Spirit World and Dharma philosophy are also something I'd like to see very much.

For my character idea, I'm assuming we're in China since it was mentioned (wasn't Golden Courts Vietnam, though?). It could be easily adjusted for Korea or Japan as well.



Concept: Japanese military captain stationed in China during WWI, sympathized with the locals and began treating his soldiers with increasing cruelty and harsh punishments for their actions until his own men killed him.

Dharma: Howl of the Devil Tiger. Direction: North.

[Mnemaxa]

Still very interested as well. I'd prefer to use the actual KotE rules and system. My main focus in most RPs goes towards social scenes and challenges, though Spirit World and Dharma philosophy are also something I'd like to see very much.

For my character idea, I'm assuming we're in China since it was mentioned (wasn't Golden Courts Vietnam, though?). It could be easily adjusted for Korea or Japan as well.



Concept: Japanese military captain stationed in China during WWI, sympathized with the locals and began treating his soldiers with increasing cruelty and harsh punishments for their action until his own men killed him.

Dharma: Howl of the Devil Tiger. Direction: North.

You are correct, golden courts is Vietnam.  It's been a while since I cracked the books.

[Marie Reynolds]

I am still interested  will be able to think of a concept later the time to get ready for work is soon approaching.

[Marie Reynolds]

Hmm i am thinking of a healer and guru concept  I am debating between thrashing dragon or Resplendent Crane. Though leaning to crane to avoid having two thrashing dragons . I would prefer a system game as well.

[Rook Seidhr]

I can probably come up with a suitable character concept to fit any missing direction, actually. A Bone Shadow of the West or South also appeals to me, in which case obviously I would want spirit world stuff to play more of a role.

[Mnemaxa]

So far we have three definitely interested with a wide variety of styles available.  I think one or two more and I will start worldbuilding in depth for you. 

You will be part of the Blood Court, and stationed in Beijing this may make things slightly difficult for the Japanese officer (but only difficult, not intolerable or horrible) if you went that direction.  It seems social explorations and situations and heavy spirituality in the Dharmas and enlightenment aspects are where most are headed.  This doesn't preclude combat, but it will very likely reduce the amount of lethal combat that occurs.  Courtly politics is also something of an interest from what I see so far.

System and dice are the consensus, and that's how we will play it.  If we even get one more interested party, I'll set up character sheet and requirements.  Something you should all think about carefully is how dark you want to go - obviously, this must be in the Extreme Board if only for the fact that you're all blood and life drinking monsters, but also consider how decadent or not, how deeply involved with the mortals you want to be, and an awareness of the necessities of night to night existence as kuei will require of you (servants/slaves/secretaries/lovers/allies/enemies, etc.).  You don't have to flesh it out, but at least consider the possibilities while we see if anyone else becomes interested.

[Marie Reynolds]

Oh forgot to mention i would go East Direction.

[Rook Seidhr]

A healer and guru who's East? Not Center?

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I am certainly interested depending on game speed.

[Marie Reynolds]

Yep more focused on guiding and taken care of the mortals.

[Mnemaxa]

All right.  Four is a good enough start for me to outline the idea behind the game and give some basic ideas about character creation.  Five would be ideal, but four is enough.



Not all is right with the world as you have been taught.  The things that the Mandarins claim are not the things that enlightened humans claim.  Yin and Yang, the Five Elements.  There are flaws in them, as you understand them.  Whether the flaws are within you, or within the teachings of your elders...well, only a fool would contradict the Bodhisattva.

Long Term Goal:  You are not entirely new to this world, but nor are you truly very experienced in this world of the Kuei, of demon Mo and ghostly Guei and the dead flesh of Kuei.  Yet within each of you, some nagging doubt, some confusion of the truth is clearly marked.  It is neither the whispers of your hateful P'o, nor is it the calm understanding of your Hun.  It is something more fundamental than that, and the disquiet grows even as you serve under the auspices of the Blood Court.  As you practice your diplomacy, as you study your condition, as you follow your paths, what this unquiet whisper is will begin to come clear.  And when you have truly understood it...you must then choose what you will do about it. 

The differences between the Kuei and the Vampires are vast, and almost irreconcilable.  Yet there must be at least a measure of peace between them, lest the Middle Kingdom fall victim to barbarism and chaos.  It is not power or will which makes the enemy most dangerous....the enemy is most dangerous because it is infectious.

The Problem:  As the Western vampires maintain their presence in China, it is inevitable that they would seek to expand their power and control.  The Blood Court is not merely responsible for Beijing, but all of China; and China is a vast and populous land.  Driving the vampires away would be ideal, but the fact that they are a disease which could become  a plague is a sobering thought for the Mandarins.  Even the Bodhisattva are cautious in their dealings with them.  So too, must you be, as you are the liaisons to Shadow Court.  It is a surprisingly prestigious position, and one which is both derided and envied.  There are many agendas to be coped with.  What of your own?

Imbalance and Balance are both part of the Tao.  To understand this is to begin understanding the Tao.  When does one become the other?  Only the Tao can say.  How can one change one into the other?  This is folly.  How can one strive to be at peace with both?  This is following the Way.

Complications: Your Wu is not a traditional Wu, and this leads to trouble.  Still, you are tasked by the Mandarins, and you must do your duty.  Not only the duty that you are commanded to perform, but also your duty to yourselves and each other, and those under you.  It is not enough to do what you are told, but you must also do what you must, without falling to the temptations of corruption, your inner demons, or the enemies that surround you.



Does this sound like an interesting sort of scenario/setting for you all?  Is there something more you would like to see, is there anything you want clarified?  If we do this, there are some specific flaws and merits that I will disallow, mainly those relating to raised Dharma levels, Heresy, Corruption, and other things that would betray the ideals set up by the players or would get you summarily executed. 

[Marie Reynolds]

Looks good to me! Ill just need to do some research on the shadow court and the blood court as the only game i played was based in japan. Mostly so i can build my history with the setting in mind.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Thinking of going with a business woman type.  Maybe a resplendent crane.

[Rook Seidhr]

Does this sound like an interesting sort of scenario/setting for you all?  Is there something more you would like to see, is there anything you want clarified?

It sounds most auspicious :) Are we using the Revised Edition patch from the KotE Companion, or rules-as-written which match up to the Second Edition of VtM?

Thinking of going with a business woman type.  Maybe a resplendent crane.

What Direction?

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Thinking more North.

[Rook Seidhr]

Sure is gonna be a non-traditional wu then, with two Norths, no Center, and either no South or no West!

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I am open to suggestions.  Still have some more refreshing to do.

[VonDoom]

All right.  Four is a good enough start for me to outline the idea behind the game and give some basic ideas about character creation.  Five would be ideal, but four is enough.



Does this sound like an interesting sort of scenario/setting for you all?  Is there something more you would like to see, is there anything you want clarified?  If we do this, there are some specific flaws and merits that I will disallow, mainly those relating to raised Dharma levels, Heresy, Corruption, and other things that would betray the ideals set up by the players or would get you summarily executed.

Hmm. After playing so much VtM dealing with Kindred a lot of the time wouldn't be my first choice, but I'm not opposed.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Actually kind of wondering if a Resplendent Crane South Direction would be good.  Seems like a vigilante sort perhaps.  A kind of Batman type.

[Rook Seidhr]

Batman faces North, I think…he's judgmental and cold. The South is the direction of relentless dedication to change for its own sake, creative destruction.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Ag, my bad but that dies give me some ideas.  Might take the night to spin up a more thought concept but thinking a sort of street tough woman that is trying to clean up the neighborhoods and also the establishments.  Sort of criminal turned activist that had no problem getting her hands dirty and wants to break things up.

[Mnemaxa]

Looks good to me! Ill just need to do some research on the shadow court and the blood court as the only game i played was based in japan. Mostly so i can build my history with the setting in mind.

Perfectly acceptable.  Don't get too caught up in exactitudes, there will be a lot of changes from the books - a moderately good idea is better.  I'll provide more exacting information before we start.  The Underground City where the Kindred are allowed to stay is complex and not very detailed, but I will give you more information. 

It sounds most auspicious :) Are we using the Revised Edition patch from the KotE Companion, or rules-as-written which match up to the Second Edition of VtM?
What Direction?

The Kindred of the East Companion is where much of the basics will come from, but the Core book will still be the primary source of information.  The lack of information in the Core book (and the misinformation presented in it) will be part of the basis of the game.  Character creation will be as per the Core book, with the Companion being secondary but accepted.  If you posses Dharma or Direction Books, and wish to use information or tools from them, I will vet them first, so Core book material+Small amounts of Companion material will be your best bet for easy character creation.

Hmm. After playing so much VtM dealing with Kindred a lot of the time wouldn't be my first choice, but I'm not opposed.

You won't be dealing with them constantly, never fear.  You'll be dealing more with your own kind than them as a general rule - you're liaisons, not gatekeepers.  Monitoring their activities is actually something you'll be assigning others to take care of, summoning spirits to deal with, and the like.  You'll have plenty of work (and play) to do outside of liaising.


Each Character will be granted 10 extra Background Points to be spent specifically on these Merits and Abilities:  Hun, Willpower, Resources, Mortal Society Merits (ST vets all servants/slaves/property/companions and reserves the right to utilize them as NPCs at any time as well as subject them to issues; the ST will not summarily execute them but may threaten or kill them with appropriate warning and opportunity to rescue them, and will provide for replacements in the event of death.), and Supernatural Merits.  Bear in mind you have to buy up Willpower to at least 5.  You will be existing in the Forbidden City, members of the Blood Court itself, but you may want to have places to stay outside that location.  You are all at Dharma Level 2 - you are all aware of the duties you have to yourselves, others, and Heaven. 

Artifacts is limited to 3 Dots, but you may have more than one.  Jade is limited to one piece with up to a 5 rating (Yu Ying and White jade are limited to 4) or multiple pieces of a rating no higher than 2.  The Flaws Akuma, Disembodied (i.e. Yulan-jin), and Defiled are all disallowed.  No Heretical Dharmas are allowed (though they can be part of a character's history if desired).

[Marie Reynolds]

Does anyone know what book i can find stuff on the Shadow Court on?

[Braioch]

For me, I'm wanting a Devil Tiger....Center....I'm trying to see what feels best for a concept, being Center works intensely for the Demonology/Rites in DTs, so I'm trying to decide if I want the backstory to be of a more repressed scholarly type....or a bold occultist.

Hmmmm -strokes chin-

Ag, my bad but that dies give me some ideas.  Might take the night to spin up a more thought concept but thinking a sort of street tough woman that is trying to clean up the neighborhoods and also the establishments.  Sort of criminal turned activist that had no problem getting her hands dirty and wants to break things up.

That sounds much like an East directed Crane, harsh law enforcer dealing with the living world more than the undead or spiritual world (though East directed Cranes get looked askance at after awhile since Cranes are supposed to keep themselves separate from the living cuz they're not the living anymore)

Does anyone know what book i can find stuff on the Shadow Court on?

Shadow Court? (I only know of Flesh, Blood, Flame, Bone and Jade) Closest thing I can think of what you mean is for the Bone Flowers and their Sourcebook is rich in ideas.

(I own...several of the KotE books...every Dharma book, including the one dedicated to the Heresies, the Core and Companion, and the 1000 Hells book...want...more....)

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Sort of thinking the concept might lend well to a Southerly direction as she tries to tear down what is there and replace them with what she would view as the laws of Heaven.  Sort of thinking a mobster type tearing away at the "honorless" criminals in order to establish a more perfect hierarchy and then using that power to break away the other structures.

[Rook Seidhr]

Petition for a house rule: add Academics to the set of Knowledges, discard Linguistics, represent fluency in an additional language by a 1-point Merit or 2 XP after creation?

[Rook Seidhr]

If you possess…Direction Books

Pretty sure there's no such thing, or I'd have 'em :)

[Mnemaxa]

Does anyone know what book i can find stuff on the Shadow Court on?

There is nothing official on the kindred court in Beijing, only that it is in the undercity and that the vampires are on a very touchy relationship with the kuei in the city.  They are allowed to remain by the Ancestors of the Blood Court, but only under duress.  I'll provide a writeup for it.

Petition for a house rule: add Academics to the set of Knowledges, discard Linguistics, represent fluency in an additional language by a 1-point Merit or 2 XP after creation?

Agreed in part.  Academics is added to the list of knowledge, and each dot in Academics includes one language of your choice with it - this reflects the scholarly attitude which is prevalent in Kuei society, as a classical education in  the Middle Kingdom routinely requires knowledge of multiple dialects of Chinese just to read half of the books you need to know to be considered a student worthy of the name.  Linguistics is still a skill and it is applied as in KoE Core; this mean you could theoretically know a multitude of languages above and beyond what Academics grants.  Kaja as a written language can be taken through Linguistics, Academics, or as a 1 point merit (your extra background points cover it as it is considered a supernatural language).

[Braioch]

Sort of thinking the concept might lend well to a Southerly direction as she tries to tear down what is there and replace them with what she would view as the laws of Heaven.  Sort of thinking a mobster type tearing away at the "honorless" criminals in order to establish a more perfect hierarchy and then using that power to break away the other structures.

Canonically, that would put her at great odds with the vast majority of other Cranes. They don't even like innovation, let alone complete overhauls of established laws. Out of all the Dharmas, they're the biggest sticklers for tradition and obligation to them. Considering how strict they're painted in canon, she'd risk severe censure and worse depending on how much she rocked the boat.

Of course, that's not my call in any way >_> Maxa, I didn't even check to see if there was still room before I butted my idea in, whoops, got a little over excited.

EDIT: Crap...didn't see the other Devil Tiger before I ran in full tilt...bugger all, what IS everyone planning on playing? (Besides Pumpkin, who's obviously aiming for the Legalists, bless you by the way, I don't think I could ever manage one personally >_>)

EDIT 2: I'm also vastly amused that pretty much all of the original interested people from last year are the ones still in the discussion currently

[Pumpkin Seeds]

That kind of does fit with what I had envisioned.  Sort of an old world crime boss dealing with young thugs and modern gangsters.  Trying to bring back the honor of the criminal organization.

[Braioch]

Hey, I mean, if pissing off a bunch of old guys living in monasteries made of stones younger than they are is what you want, my internal Devil Tiger applauds you. (Plus, the Cranes could use a little livening up, god that sourcebook was dry as hell to read at times, I still haven't managed to completely read it through)

[Mnemaxa]

While the courts might not be so adaptable, the ST is fairly adaptable, and this was never going to be a traditional wu in the first place.  Which only makes it more interesting that you'll be dealing with the problems you'll be dealing with, essentially, being an unorthodox group dealing with unorthodox problems in the manners of Direction and Dharma that you are trying your best to exemplify. 

You're welcome in Braioch, that shouldn't be a problem. 

That kind of does fit with what I had envisioned.  Sort of an old world crime boss dealing with young thugs and modern gangsters.  Trying to bring back the honor of the criminal organization.

There was definitely a darker side to Wudang that people like to ignore politely, and the tongs, gangs, and cults had quite a bit of honor and control back in their heyday.  It will be an interesting sort of group.

So we have, in no particular order:, with their possible ideas:
VonDoom: Northern Devil Tiger
Pumkin Seeds: Southern Resplendent Crane
Braoich:  Centered Devil Tiger
Riveda:  Thrashing Dragon, or a Bone Shadow of the West or South.
Marie Reynolds:  Crane or Dragon, East

Is this correct?  Nothing is set in stone other than I'll be running it, but I'd like to get a few more important details hammered out.  Since this is going to be a Politics and Spiritualism heavy game (there will be combat, naturally, but it will be far less of the lethal variety than most such games) there is the possibility of a less than Extreme rating for the game.  That means I have to ask:  Where are you people wanting to take the darker aspects of this game?  It is inevitable that your demons are going to get the better of you eventually, and Devil Tigers and Thrashing Dragons are notorious for the levels of violence they can inflict (not that Cranes don't have a hellish reputation - they're just not as overt about it).  So, how dark is dark, and how dark is too dark?  Obviously we're all players/readers of KoE, so it's pretty obvious our tastes at least go in similar directions, but I have to ask the question anyways.

[VonDoom]

EDIT: Crap...didn't see the other Devil Tiger before I ran in full tilt...bugger all, what IS everyone planning on playing? (Besides Pumpkin, who's obviously aiming for the Legalists, bless you by the way, I don't think I could ever manage one personally >_>)

EDIT 2: I'm also vastly amused that pretty much all of the original interested people from last year are the ones still in the discussion currently

I have no problem with another Devil Tiger if the ST doesn't. Always thought 'one of each only' was a bit silly, they're not all cookie cutter characters in a single clan/dharma/tradition/whatevers.

And it's Kindred of the East. Of course you'd have all the original interested people. It's not like we'll ever get any KotE games anywhere else.  :P

And I'm willing to go very dark conceptually. However, I'd like to stay away from pure 'ick' sort of horror. Lasombra>Tzimisce, so to speak. In detailed description, anyway. Describing how they're eating a corpse in a factual fashion is fine because it's KotE. The exact tastes and how the pustules are feeling on the tongue and bla bla bla I don't need.

[Rook Seidhr]

Submitted for your consideration: Meng Meixing, West-facing Bone Flower, formerly a historian linguist of some scholarly renown. I have yet to decide what put her on the Road Back, and I need to pick 4 points' worth of Rites, but otherwise I think she's ready to go.

EDIT: She's a linguist, not a historian—an expert in the Kra and Kam-Sui language groups of Southeast and South-Central China.

[Braioch]

Considering there's gonna be two DTs and possibling a Dragon or two, I suspect that it's going to get fairly dark, even in the background of the story. Thrashing Dragons cuz of their...well their attempts at being unstoppable forces of nature and the Devil Tigers cuz they're trying to be Devils. Center dudes like mine are generally the Demonologists of the DT circles and I plan on running with that, so in place of that comes a lot of dark and twisted shit being done.

So...

[Rook Seidhr]

And I'm willing to go very dark conceptually. However, I'd like to stay away from pure 'ick' sort of horror. Lasombra>Tzimisce, so to speak. In detailed description, anyway. Describing how they're eating a corpse in a factual fashion is fine because it's KotE. The exact tastes and how the pustules are feeling on the tongue and bla bla bla I don't need.

I pretty much agree there.

[Braioch]

I'm still puzzling out my guy bit by bit

(And if anyone wants to use original character sheets go here and you can download the interactive sheets and upload 'em to docs after you're done)

Is the Chronicle or Wu been named?

Oh and Maxa, are any rites or allegiances from the Devil Tiger books off limits?

[Mnemaxa]

Thank you for the character sheet link; if it's all right I'll add that into the OOC post when I'm done with writing up the things you will all need. 

The Chronicle and the Wu have not yet been named. 

Generally seaking it's easier to select specific rites and allegiances first and ask me, otherwise I'd have to go though 5 books worth of material and pick and chose what is and isn't allowed.  Essentially (and this goes for all Kuei), the deal-breakers are:  things that give you a very specific power over others in the Wu they cannot counter in some way, be it political, supernatural, or temporal; things which would get you summarily executed by any sane Ancestor upon discovery (Akuma ties, or allegiances to the Yama Kings, for example); and rites that are specifically designed to utilize such powers or create bonds with such power. 

For instance, it is within the Devil Tiger purview to create monsters (the books use the term bakemono, but the correct term would be yaoguai) so that would be an acceptable power.  A rite which infuses corrupt chi into such a monster would not be allowed.

[VonDoom]

Might I ask you to clarify on the 'power over others' aspect? That could quite literally be anything.

[Braioch]

Hell, the entire Obligation discipline falls into that header

(And bakemono are awesome, also important to a ritualist Devil Tiger)

[Mnemaxa]

Might I ask you to clarify on the 'power over others' aspect? That could quite literally be anything.

The exact words were:  power over others in the Wu they cannot counter in some way.  By this I mean having some hold, power, or control over other members of the Wu that they have no ability to resist at all.  Obligation Discipline and lower levels of Majesty can be resisted, even if it is difficult to do so; higher levels of Majesty preclude resistance and would not be allowed.  So a ritual designed to remove any ability of a Wu member to counter your command to them would be a no-go (and probably very high level).  Note that I did specify Wu members - if a power allows you to do this to someone outside your Wu, it's not an issue (and is in fact expected, if not outright encouraged by the ST).

[VonDoom]

The problem being that most actual powers that do so rather than conventional means like 'having dirt on' and similar ... do not exclude Wu Members. I'm not aware of any power that has a 'does not affect wu members' attached to it. I'm ... not trying to be difficult, but that seems to me like an odd ruling. It would be easier to simply add the often included 'do not use mind control on party members' houserule that spreads over numerous systems and games.

[Braioch]

Plus, considering how the Wan Kuei consider their roles within Wu's, that'd be one helluva a nasty violation and immediately get your ass granted Akuma status.

[Mnemaxa]

It would be easier to simply add the often included 'do not use mind control on party members' houserule that spreads over numerous systems and games.

I understand that ruling, but in KoE that ruling is actually a problem - there are forms of mind control that the players will WANT and might NEED to use on/be used by other players, especially if they enter Shadow Soul.  Demon Taming Arts, for example, are mind control abilities that one might need to unleash upon a fellow Wu member; likewise the power of Obligation can be used to enforce a Crane's discipline on the P'o of an unruly Devil Tiger. 

Since I don't know all the rites and powers by heart, I find it causes less trouble to let people know, if a rite or power cannot be resisted by a member of the Wu, they shouldn't take it.  Having dirt n others or political power over others is fine, as long as it isn't the kind of political power that allows (for example) a person to accuse someone of being akuma and getting them summarily executed by an Ancestor because that Ancestor owes  a massive favor.

The reason this is so important is because under Shadow Soul, a Wu member's demon might just decide to call in such a favor or use that kind of power against the Wu.

[Braioch]

Wait...so like...Cultivation and Obligation are bad or...?

I'm super confused now

[VonDoom]

The problem is that this is particularly confusing:

The exact words were:  power over others in the Wu they cannot counter in some way.  By this I mean having some hold, power, or control over other members of the Wu that they have no ability to resist at all.

Followed by:

Note that I did specify Wu members - if a power allows you to do this to someone outside your Wu, it's not an issue (and is in fact expected, if not outright encouraged by the ST).

I don't think there is a single power that works on Kuei-Jin that this applies to, the only exception being powers that don't allow mortals to resist.

[Braioch]

I don't think there are powers that can't be resisted at all by other supernatural creatures tbh

[VonDoom]

There probably are at least a few. Vampire had a bunch. Without houserules, you couldn't even try to resist Dominate from a lower generation. Our group usually instituted a 'can still resist but may have higher difficulty dependent on relevant factors' (like Generation for Dominate) for that sort of thing.

[Braioch]

Well, I know being a lower Dharma and using the Obligation powers on someone of a higher dharma is ineffectual, but I don't recall a single power that's totally unblockable canonically.

[Mnemaxa]

There were a large number of them in VtM that simply could not be resisted. All of the Kuei Disciplines and Rites in the Core Book and Companion can be resisted by Kuei, so those are fine. I am not absolutely certain that this is the case for the Dharma books, which is why I want them run by me first. If a power says "kuei-jin cannot resist this power except in rare instances" I'm going to say no to it.  I don't think there are any, but I'm not 100% sure.

Obligation is always able to be resisted so there is no issue, even if it works on mortals automatically.

Addendum, Cultivation is also fine for the same reason - it can be resisted. 

[Braioch]

I do believe most of the rites and shit in Devil Tiger is mainly demonological, and I can't say 100% for sure, but I don't believe there's any non-resisted stuff in any of the books. I mean, I know the books well, but I don't know them that well.

[VonDoom]

That reminds me, before I start to adapt the backstory I originally worked up for the concept away from Korea and to China, would you mind giving it a look-over to see if the main points are alright?

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Captain Mizuhara Jin
Alias: 'Daewi'

Background:
Born in 1875, Jin  was the child of Mizuhara Jinsuke, a low wage teacher, and Mizuhara Tamako, a housewife in a small village north of Kyoto. As he grew older, Jin quickly grew unhappy with their rural situation. Despite a good basic education, the lack of money prevented any chances of getting further in an intellectual career. As a result, he joined the military, in hopes of completing his education there and joining their scientific research department.

However, he soon found that his sound mind and determination opened him entirely new options once he had completed basic training, finding the structured and demanding life in the military both refreshing and rewarding -- rather than going with his original plan, he enlisted for officer training.

He took a part in the first excursions by Japan during World War I and was involved in several attacks on German outposts in East Asia. His success eventually earned him a promotion to the rank of Captain and a transfer to a less volatile region. To Korea, where he was to supress remaining resistance against the Japanese annexation and prove his administrative skill, rather than his tactical acumen.

Once there, however, he quickly fell into stagnation. Not even his marriage to a local woman named Su-Min brought any solace. Always a man of strong beliefs and integrity, he despaired over the lows some of his countrymen had fallen to, growing more and more frustrated until he began to dole out harsh punishments far beyond the norm, spiralling down just as much as his fellow soldiers were through a combination of disappointment and loathing, of himself and others.

Eventually, during the March 1st Independence Movement of 1919, when over two million rallied against the Japanese oppressors, Captain Mizuhara fell. Not to the riots, however. He was labelled a victim of the rally, but in actuality one of his subordinates gunned him down during the confusion, successfully getting rid of a hated superior.

The dark aspect of Jin's self found itself in Mikaboshi's Wicked City. It took the p'o some time to disentangle itself from the many technological horrors found there, but it eventually did. He rose as a newly born Wan Kuei, in Seoul.

Since he had had a Korean wife (and, born after his death, a child), his remains had been interred there.  Despite his nationality and station, Jin had always treated the locals with respect, if not kindness, and that had found the same in return: his famous cruelty had been directed solely at his own men, after all.

More a point of curiosity despite his acts as a mortal due to being a foreigner, he was nevertheless considered to have potential and inducted into the Howl of the Devil-Tiger. His time in the Wicked City had had one upside: he didn't need much catching up to modern standards, even if the knowledge comes with horrible trauma.

Personality:
Jin conducts himself as a highly disciplined man, though the time in Yomi Wan and the extensive torture performed upon him to awaken him to his proper self has left its marks. He has exchanged his military uniform for civilian attire, now preferring tailored suits and enjoying a new appreciation of creature comforts, despite his full realisation that they are but a vest to wear: a demon may be wretched, the Searing Wind must be magnificent.

He idly wonders what became of his relatives back in Japan, but has not found the opportunity (or, indeed, proper motivation) to look into things, now that he has become one of the righteous devils. The same goes for his descendants within Seoul -- he has actively avoided looking into them, having no desire to get them involved in Kuei-jin activity. After all, he knows all too well that at some point he'll have to cut his mortal ties, if he wants to complete his Dharma -- literally. He sees no reason to rush into such things or worry at them before the time comes.

Generally, Jin is a practical man of strong moral fiber and as such finds the aspect of punishing sinners the most rewarding -- if he has to become a monster himself to do so, then he had already taken the first steps towards that journey as a mortal. Half-finished things are a sign of weakness.

Edit: It's a fairly old writeup, so I'll probably rephrase quite a bit along with adapting things.

[Mnemaxa]

That's a very good background.  I have no complaints; he would not the first or last Japanese Kuei to take the Second Breath in China. 

Mind you, it will cause some level of friction; old grudges die hard.  Still, the fact that he directed his angers and cruelty towards his own countrymen will work in his favor in some cases. 

I see no problems with it, and he sounds like just the kind of person the Bestowed Ancestor needs in this unusual Wu.

[RubySlippers]

Anyone running an Artist, I was thinking a returned scholar and artisan who tends the mortal world and shuns combat (I have some ideas for this, she will have some combat training but its not her role in their society to sully herself in combat). I'll likely take one of the elevated arts from the region such as Embroidery or Sculpture for example. I'm thinking someone positioned and happy to operate around mortals, whose respected as an artist (its considered a very respected profession) and educated maybe self-educated but educated. And who would support the group along those lines. Well I don't think a diplomatic sort is in the group.

[Mnemaxa]

I'm thinking someone positioned and happy to operate around mortals, whose respected as an artist (its considered a very respected profession) and educated maybe self-educated but educated. And who would support the group along those lines. Well I don't think a diplomatic sort is in the group.

At this point I am not sure if there is or not; I am much more interested in the Dharma and Direction your character is going to be portrayed as.  There will be varius sorts of diplomats in the group from the concepts I'm seeing so far.

[Braioch]

Besides the 10 resource points, since I assume being at 2 Dharma to start, there's been some going ons for our characters in their development, are there any extra freebie points as well?

[Mnemaxa]

I am planning to give extra freebie points after I have given everyone a more sold look at the current situations and people they are working with and around, and after we have finalized their characters. This will represent their growth to dharma 2 as well as their familiarity wil the current situation, allowing the players to further tailor their characters to the setting proper.

I am working on the write ups, and hope to have something posted in an OOC thread by wednesday evening/morning.

[Braioch]

I'm going with a "previous introverted intellectual eventual occultist" for the human days (haven't pondered up the rest of his life, including to his death and afterwards though) Going primary with the brains and tertiary with social, and I'm aiming for leaning towards a strong streak of demonlogy in the guy, and freebie points may be the final say in how far along he is or isn't.

So I'll hold off on what precisely imma do with him until after you've got your decision made.

[Mnemaxa]

Perfectly acceptable.

[Mnemaxa]

I'm finishing up the background information for Beijing, The "Shadow Court", and the Political Flowchart for the Kuei of the Blood Court for you (it will be incomplete, because your character do not yet know everyone and everything). 

Please excuse the delay.  I will have them posted here, then post them in an OOC thread if they are acceptable to everyone.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Sorry if I've been quiet.  Doing a lot of trauma training stuff.

[Braioch]

Same, between a shit ton of work and long training hours done separate yet for work, I've been both busy and exhausted.

[Mnemaxa]

If it makes you both feel better, it isn't going to be a high 'pressure to post' game.  I much prefer thoughtful posts and less stress in my life.  Once a week would be enough, as long as they're good posts. 

[Braioch]

-gasps and clutches pearls-

As if I give anything but quality posts!

My lawyer shall hear about this!

[Mnemaxa]

My assassins will negotiate with your lawyer on the morrow, good sir.

[Mnemaxa]

Okay.  Here is the first of three write-ups for the Shadow Court Warriors KoE game.  If there are questions, please ask, it will help me cement things in the other two.



Most Notable Factions (Each has 3-5 wu following their sect; there are more, but these are the current movers and shakers.)
*Society of Wise and Virtuous Magistrates, a conservative group with many Northerly wu.
*Jade Brush Brotherhood, a fairly progressive group, currently held to be in a favorable position despite the Bestowed Ancestor's affiliation.
*Grave-Polishing Caretakers, a West and Yin aligned group that is currently embroiled in dealing with both the Kindred issue and the spiritual unrest in China's mirrorlands.
*Devils of the Black Lantern, less a political group than a group dedicated to ensuring the blood court remains free of Yama King influences. 
*Auspicious Scattering of Tiles, a Center leaning faction that is trying to achieve a more moderate stance between progression and conservatism.


Bestowed Ancestor of the Celestial Realm, leader of the Kuei as a Whole:  The Mandarin Bai Guan Yun, White-Hat Cloud, a Resplendent Crane associated with the Society of Virtuous Magistrates.
The Five August Ancestors (Responsible for the Five Court regions in their entirety):
Blood Court:  Jan Pen Wu, East Directed Thrashing Dragon (M)
Bone Court:  Bar Mei Tong, North Directed Bone Flower (M)
Flesh Court:  Ba Yan Huan, Center Directed Rootless Tree (F)
Jade Court:  Ba Bi-Shou, West Directed Devil Tiger (M)
Flame Court:  Ah See Mun, South Directed Resplendent Crane (F)

Five Hidden Ministers (Oversee regional scope duties, all are mandarins)
Minister of Jade:  Guan Yao Te, Northern Resplendent Crane (M)
Minister of Rites:  San Yin Zhu, Westerly Thousand Whisper (F)
Minister of Shen:  Qi Zhong Jian, Centered Thousand Whisper (M)
Minister of Gardens:  Huang Fei Fu, East Facing Trashing Dragon (M)
Minister of War:  Shun Li Nu, North Directed Bone Shadow (M)

City Ancestor:  Currently, none; assigned only when needed to oversee overwhelming issues.  Part of your duty is to see this doesn't happen due to the Kindred presence.

Yin Ambassador:  Tieh Tieh, the Iron Butterfly, West Directed Bone Shadow (F), jina
Yang Ambassador:  Er Wa Guei, West Directed Devil Tiger (MtF), jina

Five Ministers (Local scope duties, all but Mo Ku Jen are jina. Mo Ku is a mandarin).
Jade:  Nai Meng, Northern Bone Shadow (F)
Rites:  Mo Ku Jen, the Demon Bone Nun, Centered Devil Tiger (F)
Shen:  Wan Bai She, Center Directed Resplendent Crane (M)
Garden:  Mi Mei, East Directed Thrashing Dragon (MtF)
War:  An Mei She, North Directed Devil Tiger (M)

First Oni:  Er Yin Dao, South Directed Thrashing Dragon (M) (mandarin)
Infant Devil Civilizer:  Yung Yin Hsi, East Directed Devil Tiger (FtM) (jina)

Local Ancestor:  Tiao Quan, Center Directed Rootless Tree (M) (mandarin)
Ancestor's Wu (All jina)
North – Pao Ying, Resplendent Crane (M)
East – Tu Mei, Thrashing Dragon (FtM)
West – Yung Yue, Bone Shadow (F)
South – Yung Bi Chen, Devil Tiger (M)

You have (relatively) easy access up to the Yin and Yang Ambassadors; for those two you always require appointments.  Above them, you know who is who, but have no access outside of emergencies or incidental access without appointments and (traditional and regulated) bribery. 

As a side note, the FtM/MtF gender tags may not always indicate transexuality – in some cases it can mean an unwanted or unexpected body-swap.

The Minsters of Jade are treasurers, and sometimes literally handle acquisiton and distribution of jade to those who need it (the Ambassadors or ministers of Shen for example, get their jade for the shen they meet and to travel to the Yin and Yang Realms). 
Ministers of Rites ensure all appropriate rites are performed, locally or regionally as appropriate.
Ministers of Shen are diplomats between the Wan Kuei and other shen, and are overseers of Dragon Nests the Wan Kuei are responsible for.
Ministers of the Garden take are of the human world as it related to the Wan Kuei, and oversee the disposition of chi resources outside of jade and dragon nests.
The Ministers of War are more logistics and resource control – the First Oni serves as General and overseer of warfare.
The Yin and Yang Ambassadors are literally ambassadors to the spirits and spirit worlds, as opposed to other shen.

It is important to remember that direction and dharma are only two of the aspects of a given kuei's appointment to any given position.  For instance a North Directed Bone Shadow might seem an odd choice for the local Minister of Jade, but Nai Meng's firm hand and cool temper keep things moving in a timely but consistent manner in the turmoil ridden Beijing economies of chi, jade, and commerce both spiritual and physical.  Likewise, a Centered Devil Tiger seems like a bizarre choice for the Minister of Rites, but enforcing the spiritual duties of the city upon the human populace is a difficult task that requires aggressive tactics as well as sideways thinking at times, especially in a conflicted place like Beijing.

It is also worth noting almost none of the appointees are wu-mates, with one notable exception:  Tieh Tieh is part of Mo Ku Jen's wu, but her qualifications for the position of Yin Ambassador were far higher than the potential risk of corruption or conspiracy.  It does mean that there are many eyes of varied sorts on both of them, from several quarters.

[Miroque]

Is this game still looking more players? Its been ages for my last KotE game.

[Mnemaxa]

I think you will b the last - that puts us at 6. 

[Rook Seidhr]

Yeah, we definitely don't want 7.

[Mnemaxa]

Seven is a good number too.  It's auspicious.  Six is less auspicious, but anything is better than four. 

That said I'm still working in this thread to make sure everyone is okay with what gets presented.  Tomorrow you'll have information on the so-called Shadow Court, the Kindred who live in the Beijing undercity.  I will still have to review players and make sure they're going to be okay with what I have cooked up and will tolerate the slightly slower than average posting speed I am prone to. 

[Rook Seidhr]

Seven is a good number too.  It's auspicious.  Six is less auspicious

Huh. I thought it was the other way around.

but anything is better than four. 

That, I knew.

[Mnemaxa]

Huh. I thought it was the other way around.
That, I knew.

Six is young yin which changes to yang; seven is older yang, which remains stable.  Stability>Change, numerically speaking.

[Rook Seidhr]

Stability>Change, numerically speaking.

OK, and 9 moves to 8, so 8 is more auspicious than 9? (Well, I already knew 8 was more auspicious than 9.)

[Mnemaxa]

OK, and 9 moves to 8, so 8 is more auspicious than 9? (Well, I already knew 8 was more auspicious than 9.)

Yes.  I Ching numerology is based on the auspiciousness of the numbers. 

[Mnemaxa]

Writeup number two:  Shadow Court.

I had to do extra research.  Read over it and see if everything makes sense and sounds agreeable - as the game style was requested to be more diplomatic, bot human and shen relations, and investigative, I have arranged the situations to be as close as possible to fostering that kind of adventure for our strange wu.

FEEDBACK IS CRITICAL.  Without it, you won't get a game you like!



The Shadow Court:  Kindred of Shanghai.

Antonio de la Passaglia paved the way in the 1500's, and the Blood Court of the Quincunx allowed it.

It was one thing to be forced to cope with foreigners, but the kindred were another abomination entirely.  But Antonio was careful, and clever.  He humbled himself, and he understood the languages of China's Imperial City – but most importantly, he understood the customs.  This last saved his unlife, and those of his companions.

So began the 'Shadow Court', called so not because of its placement in the Underground City of Beijing, but because of its nature as the merest echo of any court of the Quincunx.

Antonio de la Passaglia exists in the depths of the Black Market of Beijing, where he maintains the passages from East to West in careful and strictly controlled conditions.  While his son and childer Martino della Passaglia is the current face of the kindred in the so called Shadow Court, it is very well known to the Blood Court as a whole that Antonio is still unlive and well.  The Della Passaglia who live and work in the Beijing Foreign Quarter are deeply connected to their unliving family in the same, and as many legal business ventures are controlled as illegal by them or their proxies.  Though the Giovanni do not intrude too closely into the Della Passaglia, they keep nearly as close an eye upon their Eastern based kin as the Wan Kuei themselves do. 

The trouble is, of course, that the Della Passaglia are necromancers as well as Kindred.  Only the purchase of the Wan Kuei's grace through offers of jade, True Jade, knowledge, and secret arts has allowed the kindred to maintain any kind of hold at all.  The ideological investigations of the Wan Kuei into the nature of the kindred are over; only the fiscal and spiritual currencies the Della Passaglia can provide have any meaning now, and those must be dispensed both carefully and somewhat liberally, lest the Ancestor of Beijing begin to suspect that it is no longer worthwhile to allow the maintenance of the kindred in Beijing to continue.

While the Bone Flowers approve of the close familial ties and great fidelity the Della Passaglia maintain amongst themselves as a general rule, they are careful to ensure that their tacit approval does not become permissiveness.  It is one thing to maintain a Scarlet Screen using ones family; it is another thing to use one's family as a source of necromantic power, blood, or entertainment.  The Devil Tigers also watch the vampires carefully, knowing that the influence of Hell would love nothing better than to slip inside the walls of Beijing through a third party.  The Della Passaglia understand and accept this careful watch, and shower those that watch with humble thanks and minor – and carefully vetted – gifts in their appreciation. 

One of the most fundamental agreements between the Shadow Court and the Blood Court is that the slave trade must stop.  Beijing is rife with it, and it poisons the culture and livelihood of Beijing.  Martino della Passaglia works very hard to ensure that no slave trade occurs in the Underground Market, and the merest whisper of it is enough to ensure a quick reaction, thorough investigation, and summary execution of those involved even before the Wan Kuei themselves become involved.  This, despite the fact that such obvious and violent situations often merit their attentions anyways. 

While the use of Scarlet Screens is commonplace and closely regulated among the Wan Kuei, those used by the kindred are far less effective and stable; the very nature of the kindred most closely associated with the Della Passaglia often requires effort to conceal their depredations.  As a result, another institution that requires kindred and kuei cooperation is assisting the Della Passaglia in maintaining some measure of their 'herds' and controlling their comparatively lackluster Scarlet Screens.  It is a tragic truth that the kindred are singularly unchanging and stilted species, hardly meriting the word 'predator' in association with their kind.  Still, as long as they maintain their usefulness, so their unlives must be maintained. 

Finally, there is the matter of corruption.  The arts of necromancy and the abiding interest in the Yin world are paramount to both the Della Passaglia and many of the Wan Kuei.  It is critical to be aware that the arts each practices are fundamentally different and approach the worlds in different ways.  Maintaining the balances between the Mirror-lands, the Middle Kingdom, and the Yellow Springs is a must, not only because it fosters respect and keeps the Dragon Lines clean and uncorrupted, but because disharmony in any of those places attracts the attention of the Yama Kings.  Further, information and knowledge and magic transferred from one place to another, or even one person to another, is yet one more avenue for corruption and unwelcome interference to arise. 

The duty of the wu, then is really threefold. 
1:  Serve as intermediaries between the Blood Court and the Shadow Court.
1.A:  Ensure tribute is appropriate and flows properly between the Shadow Court and the Blood Court.
1.B:  Ensure the dictates of the August Ancestors of the Blood Court are being followed by both sides.

2:  See that decorum, propriety, and the rites are being observed and maintained.
2.A:  Ensure the Scarlet Screens are intact and being used properly.
2.B:  Correct and redress any flaws or inappropriate behaviors on any side, Wan Kuei,
Mortal, or Kindred.
2.C:  Ensure no corruption emerges from either side of those Screens to taint Beijing.

3:  Maintain vigilance over the Shadow Court, the Mirror-Lands, and the Middle Kingdom that all may continue to work towards enlightenment in harmony and peace.
3.A:  Ensure that no exchange brings shame to the Blood Court.
3.B:  Investigate and report all corruption noticed within the Shadow Court to the appropriate authorities.

PLAYER NOTES: 
1.A:  Your primary duties are diplomatic, but that does include the collection of tributes in the name of the Blood Court in all forms.  These are to be delivered to the Minister of Jade.
1.B:  This includes maintaining vigilance in the Black Market for slave trade fostered by any faction of shen, including Xiong Ren and Yin World ghosts.

2:B:  This includes the creation of kindred without sanction by the Della Passaglia, as well as inappropriate creation of kindred by them (those under wan Kuei protection, for instance), or the instigation of spiritual unrest in the Mirror Worlds by kindred.

3.B:  Bear in mind that while you are diplomats and mediators, this does not exempt you from dealing with emergencies with force.  If a situation arises where simply informing the appropriate authorities is impossible or inadvisable (or fruitless) then you are expected to act upon the tenets of Direction and Dharma.

[Braioch]

I'm always eternally amused by the idea of a Devil Tiger diplomat ::)

[Mnemaxa]

Sometimes how you say something is more important than why you say something, and sometimes saying it hard is better than saying it nice.

After all, it took the Sand Priest beating the crap out of the Monkey King to get Sun Kong to realize you can't always hit a problem to death.

[Braioch]

MC: ...I can still torture the problem...right?

[Marie Reynolds]

Sorry i have been a bit quite real life has had me running around like a chicken with my head cut off.

[Rook Seidhr]

It might be wisest if I drop out of this now. I've been having trouble keeping up with pbp games lately, and ironically I think the slower the posting rate is, the harder it will be for me to stay interested.

Sorry.