First Sign of 'Electioneering' and Campaign Mudslinging 2014.

[Callie Del Noire]

It's not even the election year yet, and I get to see my first attack add for someone running for office. Down here in Florida, Charlie Crist (Former R, Former Ind, now Democrat) has announced his decision to run for Governor as a Democrat. (I can relate a bit.. I know I'm not welcome in my own party anymore.. the penalty of being a Moderate Republican who thinks fiscal issues are more important than irrelevant social ones)

Thing is.. I LITERALLY just saw the campaign announce on the news.. not TEN minutes ago..and in the commercial break I saw my first attack add. That has to be a new record. 8 hours from announcement to attack ads.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/11/rick-scott-uses-dem-criticisms-in-first-tv-ad-attacking-opportunist-charlie-crist-.html
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/political/charlie-crist-announces-candidacy-and-braces-for-an-onslaught-of-attack-ads-from-rick-scott
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/02/video-first-charlie-crist-attack-ad-hits-airwaves-86400

[Chris Brady]

The fact that politics and mudslinging is now synonymous is saddening to me.  Back in the 80's it wasn't so vicious.  At least, that's what I remember.

[ShadowFox89]

 It was vicious even in the 1790's.... Alexander Hamilton made accusations that Jefferson was man-whoring it up with his slaves (which were true), that he was an atheist (false), that he would free the slaves and start a civil war (who knows?), etc. It's nothing new and it's a long, bloody, dirty tradition of US politics.

[Oniya]

It's far more pervasive now, considering the ubiquity of the media.  There was a good chance in 1790 that someone would make it to the voting box without hearing anything about Jefferson's antics (true or false).

[Love And Submission]

It's far more pervasive now, considering the ubiquity of the media.  There was a good chance in 1790 that someone would make it to the voting box without hearing anything about Jefferson's antics (true or false).

Here's my problem with this argument . Yes Electioneering and Campaign Mudslinging is bad but isn't it better then  then alternatives? Like back when Caeser got  shanked by his senate  in the capital? Sure ,  You can criticize George Bush's policies but Dick Cheney didn't have his assassin flayed alive and hung after Ol' G.W Took a crossbow to the body on the whitehouse lawn.

There are plenty of  modern politicians I don't like but Henry The Eighth makes them look like  Ghandi.

[Oniya]

Criticizing policies is one thing.  Digging through someone's past for dirty laundry (a la Hamilton) is another.  So is spinning facts to the point that they sound like a 33 played at 78.

[TheGlyphstone]

Politics would be much more civilized if duels were legal.

Or, at the very least, C-Span would be worth watching.

[Oniya]

Politics would be much more civilized if duels were legal.

Or, at the very least, C-Span would be worth watching.

That should be a t-shirt - or maybe a bumper sticker.

EDIT:  I read the line out loud, and the little Oni just asked me 'By duels, do you mean jousting?'

[TheGlyphstone]

That should be a t-shirt - or maybe a bumper sticker.

EDIT:  I read the line out loud, and the little Oni just asked me 'By duels, do you mean jousting?'

Little Oni's idea might be even better than mine.

[Yukina]

Little Oni's idea might be even better than mine.

Introducing the....JOUSTO-LECTION!!!!!

[TheGlyphstone]

Introducing the....JOUSTO-LECTION!!!!!

Though on second thought, it might result in a strong right-wing bias to the results. War elephants just make much better mounts than donkeys.

[Oniya]

Though on second thought, it might result in a strong right-wing bias to the results. War elephants just make much better mounts than donkeys.

And then the Grand Duchy of Fenwick comes in and sweeps the elections.

[Retribution]

"Cage fight" sage nod "McCain did after all once call UFC human cock fighting."

[TheGlyphstone]

Bare-knuckle cage fights would be a quick and cheap way to replace the current crop of politicians, considering how old most of them are.

[Retribution]

Bare-knuckle cage fights would be a quick and cheap way to replace the current crop of politicians, considering how old most of them are.

I can completely support this cause

[Oniya]

So, back on topic (although the idea of turning primaries into literal Battle Royals is very appealing) - it seems that one of the chief donators for this 'Let's Get To Work' PAC is involved in a mass lay-off.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/11/rick-scotts-lets-get-to-work-donor-lays-people-off.html

One of his companies, Mortgage Investment Corp. (MIC), abruptly announced yesterday it's laying off 476 workers, including 256 people at its St. Petersburg headquarters. Fewer than 40 people will remain employed as the company winds down.

There's more scurrilous dealings at the clicky.  More reasons to overturn Citizens United.

[Tairis]

At this point I really don't think it's possible to change the course we're on until the train just flat out derails.

[Callie Del Noire]

At this point I really don't think it's possible to change the course we're on until the train just flat out derails.

It is always possible.  Likely? No. Possible yes. 

[Valthazar]

It's interesting that the FTC has some very strict regulations over deceptive advertising, however, these rules do not apply to political advertising, because it falls under the freedom of speech doctrine.  Political ads can pretty much say anything they want (even total fabricated lies), however, they are not permitted to threaten anyone.

I don't really agree with this, but on the other hand, if the government truly is committing an injustice, and a grassroots political campaign is "exposing the lies" - then having this freedom of speech doctrine is critical for a free country.  Obviously in such a situation, we don't want the FTC censoring what is "real" and "not real."

http://content.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1843796,00.html

[Callie Del Noire]

Campaign finance is out of control. There is a MASSIVE about of influence brokering going on and to say that it's disenfranching the actual voters is not QUITE true but it is getting there. The outlook, at least among party leadership, is that with enough cash you can shape elections to the results you desire. The GOP tried it this last election cycle and it didn't QUITE work. (Hence Karl Rove's pouty meltdown on live TV)

I think they were just jumping the gun. THIS cycle I expect to see more special interest and SuperPAC money spread around to counter GOP discontent due to the shutdown. I think there is a faction within each party that thinks with enough cash y ou could get an Emu elected. 

[Oniya]

An emu?  I should go into politics...

[gaggedLouise]

I remember someone saying in the good old days of a leading political party around here: "if the party elected a horse as its leader, then I'd vote for the horse".

That was back in the day when parties had not become election machines, though - and there was a good dosis of self-irony to the line.

[Callie Del Noire]

I remember someone saying in the good old days of a leading political party around here: "if the party elected a horse as its leader, then I'd vote for the horse".

That was back in the day when parties had not become election machines, though - and there was a good dosis of self-irony to the line.

Down here in the southern US it's called 'Yellow Dog <insert party of choice>'. Folks would vote in a 'yellow dog' if it wore the right party's tie pin on it's collar.

[Kythia]

We use "hatstand" in the UK - various areas would vote in a hatstand wearing a red/blue rosette.

My friend has a masterplan.  He thinks that candidates should be forbidden from mentioning their political party until after elections.  Put the policies forwards, let people vote on them then jump out from behind a bush and shout "PSYCHE!  I'm a <whatever>.  I'm off to Westminster, losers!" Or words to that effect.

Impossible to implement and enforce, but I think its a strong idea.

[Oniya]

My friend has a masterplan.  He thinks that candidates should be forbidden from mentioning their political party until after elections.  Put the policies forwards, let people vote on them then jump out from behind a bush and shout "PSYCHE!  I'm a <whatever>.  I'm off to Westminster, losers!" Or words to that effect.

Tell him I think that's brilliant.  Might make some of the voters look farther than the campaign pin to make their decision.  (Hey, a girl can dream, right?)

[Neysha]

Could reduce the political parties to the level of special interest groups or PACs like the NRA or ACLU or whatever giving out their endorsements to various candidates.

[The Dark Raven]

It's not even the election year yet, and I get to see my first attack add for someone running for office. Down here in Florida, Charlie Crist (Former R, Former Ind, now Democrat) has announced his decision to run for Governor as a Democrat. (I can relate a bit.. I know I'm not welcome in my own party anymore.. the penalty of being a Moderate Republican who thinks fiscal issues are more important than irrelevant social ones)

Thing is.. I LITERALLY just saw the campaign announce on the news.. not TEN minutes ago..and in the commercial break I saw my first attack add. That has to be a new record. 8 hours from announcement to attack ads.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/11/rick-scott-uses-dem-criticisms-in-first-tv-ad-attacking-opportunist-charlie-crist-.html
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/political/charlie-crist-announces-candidacy-and-braces-for-an-onslaught-of-attack-ads-from-rick-scott
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/02/video-first-charlie-crist-attack-ad-hits-airwaves-86400

Wait, the mudslinging stopped and I missed it?!?!?

[gaggedLouise]

The GOP gameplan - we were told there would (hopefully?) be no further chicken races to the debt ceiling to block Obamacare, but the law will continue to be a centrepiece of republican agitation all through next year:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/us/politics/gop-maps-out-waves-of-attacks-over-health-law.html?hpw&rref=&_r=0

I can see an army of medical and insurance Joe the Plumbers coming forward in the debate and "telling you how it really is"...

[TheGlyphstone]

Step 1: Unquestionable truth to set the stage (Healthcare.gov didn't function).
Step 2: Personal testimonies from assorted individuals to generate empathy and trust.
Step 3: Completely unsupportable allegations to fearmonger and focus discontent.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit.

The first three steps, at least, are pretty well-planned if rather sinister.

[Tairis]

At this point I think we should just remove them all from office and replace by random lottery. It couldn't possibly be worse at this point.

[ladia2287]

Campaign finance is out of control. There is a MASSIVE about of influence brokering going on and to say that it's disenfranching the actual voters is not QUITE true but it is getting there. The outlook, at least among party leadership, is that with enough cash you can shape elections to the results you desire. The GOP tried it this last election cycle and it didn't QUITE work. (Hence Karl Rove's pouty meltdown on live TV)

I think they were just jumping the gun. THIS cycle I expect to see more special interest and SuperPAC money spread around to counter GOP discontent due to the shutdown. I think there is a faction within each party that thinks with enough cash y ou could get an Emu elected.

I have a feeling that an emu would probably do a better job of governing than some of the people who manage to work their way into a political career...

Maybe I should start my own political party. The Emu party, with a kangaroo as the candidate :P

[Valthazar]

At this point I think we should just remove them all from office and replace by random lottery. It couldn't possibly be worse at this point.

Part of it is our own fault.  All we need to do is look at the Democrat or Republican campaign donators, and it's easy to see that both parties are run by lobbyists and corporate giants who don't care about the middle class.

There are always alternative candidates, but they never get the limelight in major debates, but I am sure if more Americans were aware of the realities, the outcomes would be very different.

[Callie Del Noire]

Part of it is our own fault.  All we need to do is look at the Democrat or Republican campaign donators, and it's easy to see that both parties are run by lobbyists and corporate giants who don't care about the middle class.

There are always alternative candidates, but they never get the limelight in major debates, but I am sure if more Americans were aware of the realities, the outcomes would be very different.

I doubt it most Americans don't bother looking into what the media is telling them. Determining the truth from the half truth.

[Deamonbane]

Sadly, mudslinging is not a practice followed solely by American politicians...

[Callie Del Noire]

This is me when I hear that 'why vote excuse.'

[MasterMischief]

I heard a suggestion put forth to do away with primaries.  This was primarily to help the issue of polarization in the US currently.  There would be a pre-election of some sort.  The top two would then face off in the actual election.

In theory, this would force candidates to move closer to the center instead of focusing on the extremes required to make it through a primary.

I am not convinced this would work.  I cringe to think how low turnout would be for the pre-election.  Still, I value fresh ideas...or even recycled ones.  The current process is not serving the general populace well.

[Chris Brady]

I doubt it most Americans don't bother looking into what the media is telling them. Determining the truth from the half truth.

Change Americans to the word people and you've got a closer approximation of how it really works.  The sad thing is that most who vote are either A) Firm Believers in their party of choice, and don't care at all about the rhetoric anyway, B) people who see no real choice and picks what they believe is the lesser of the evils or C) idealists who think they can actually change the system by working with it.

Or so it seems.

[Callie Del Noire]

Okay.. I think there are a LOT of things that fall under my definition of 'Electioneering'. Any methods of 'manipulating' or sculpting the political environment. Voter ID laws are definitely part of that. I do NOT subscribe to the term 'Voter Suppression' BUT there has to be some intent on these laws.

This one article/event though.. seems more a lack of forethought than intent. Outcome is the same though.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/29/texas-voter-id-law-women-vote

[ShadowFox89]

 Honestly? The Republicans have been trying to rig things for years now. It's not surprising anymore, simply sad.

[Callie Del Noire]

Honestly? The Republicans have been trying to rig things for years now. It's not surprising anymore, simply sad.

I don't think this one was intentional. This strikes me as another result of the shortsightedness.

[Lux12]

It's not even the election year yet, and I get to see my first attack add for someone running for office. Down here in Florida, Charlie Crist (Former R, Former Ind, now Democrat) has announced his decision to run for Governor as a Democrat. (I can relate a bit.. I know I'm not welcome in my own party anymore.. the penalty of being a Moderate Republican who thinks fiscal issues are more important than irrelevant social ones)

Thing is.. I LITERALLY just saw the campaign announce on the news.. not TEN minutes ago..and in the commercial break I saw my first attack add. That has to be a new record. 8 hours from announcement to attack ads.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2013/11/rick-scott-uses-dem-criticisms-in-first-tv-ad-attacking-opportunist-charlie-crist-.html
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/political/charlie-crist-announces-candidacy-and-braces-for-an-onslaught-of-attack-ads-from-rick-scott
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/02/video-first-charlie-crist-attack-ad-hits-airwaves-86400

Hate to say it, but this isn't anything new. Elections in the earlier years of our nations histories would get outright vicious. They made an art of mudslinging way back then. Of course, this is just another series of attack ads in a sea of them that show up every election. I can't say I'm surprised given the current state of politics in this country.

[Oniya]

I think Callie was referring to the first sign of it this go-round.  You'd think they'd wait for the chads to be swept off the floor before starting in for the following election.  :P