The concept of a good RPer.

[Infinitiveangie]

Hello! :-)
I'm Angie, and as you can all see I'm rather new, but I wanted to ask something.
I know there's never one "good thing" But still, what would the multitude of you consider to be a good RPer?
Would that have to be someone that's more into details wise, someone that posts more paragraphs, so on so on?
I'm rather curious, because I have been RPing for a while but it's been on role-player.net and on IMVU.
And both of those there, it doesn't pass more than two paragraphs, for sure.

I'd appreciate it, thank you.  :D
I hope all of you have a nice night/day!

[noct]

Writing ability.

For me, what separates the men from the boys, so to speak, is a strong, apt, and goal-oriented writer. Good writing has absolutely nothing to do with post length, although obviously good writers tend to generate more content than bad ones. The question is whether that content is meaningful. Although I'm presently unable to find the exact quote, I remember Stephen King saying something like, "A good word is like the faint glow of a firefly in the darkness. The right word is like a lightning bolt." I love that quote.

Put simply, the good roleplayers are able to "show" rather than "tell." They give you just enough details to artfully entice, but don't prattle on endlessly just to match post length. They have a perfect balance of description and action. I would also be willing to bet that good writers do a considerable amount of reading.

Like I mentioned above, good roleplayers are also goal-oriented. They know what they want out of a story and they are unafraid to tell you if you are not meeting their expectations. Nothing is more frustrating to me than when writers mutually lose interest in a story because of a lack of communication. The best stories come from two or more like-minded people.

[Infinitiveangie]

Writing ability.

For me, what separates the men from the boys, so to speak, is a strong, apt, and goal-oriented writer. Good writing has absolutely nothing to do with post length, although obviously good writers tend to generate more content than bad ones. The question is whether that content is meaningful. Although I'm presently unable to find the exact quote, I remember Stephen King saying something like, "A good word is like the faint glow of a firefly in the darkness. The right word is like a lightning bolt." I love that quote.

Put simply, the good roleplayers are able to "show" rather than "tell." They give you just enough details to artfully entice, but don't prattle on endlessly just to match post length. They have a perfect balance of description and action. I would also be willing to bet that good writers do a considerable amount of reading.

Like I mentioned above, good roleplayers are also goal-oriented. They know what they want out of a story and they are unafraid to tell you if you are not meeting their expectations. Nothing is more frustrating to me than when writers mutually lose interest in a story because of a lack of communication. The best stories come from two or more like-minded people.

This was rather interesting, and helpful, if I may say so myself.
Thank you, I think I understand what you mean with that.
I hope I'm able to display my full potential, and more so, be able to portray it adequatly here.

Thank you for answering my question. :-)

[Galanthor]

Noct forgot an important point, that i find at least as important as the ability to find the right words: Creativity.

Great writing ability is eye catching and eases the reading, it can't even carry you through boring passages, but and that is the catch, i think it can't survive by its own.

A good RPer can surprise you with every post and even give a railed plot a new direction. A wonderfully told run in the mill story will never stay in your mind, but let a child tell you a story and it might follow you a life because you never heart anything alike. In the end it is suspence on what the other might think of and the abillity to summon conflict from where noone expected it is in my eyes what keeps a story alive.

Just my two cents.

[Infinitiveangie]

Noct forgot an important point, that i find at least as important as the ability to find the right words: Creativity.

Great writing ability is eye catching and eases the reading, it can't even carry you through boring passages, but and that is the catch, i think it can't survive by its own.

A good RPer can surprise you with every post and even give a railed plot a new direction. A wonderfully told run in the mill story will never stay in your mind, but let a child tell you a story and it might follow you a life because you never heart anything alike. In the end it is suspence on what the other might think of and the abillity to summon conflict from where noone expected it is in my eyes what keeps a story alive.

Just my two cents.

I can understand where you're coming from, and that is a true skill to be able to possess.
Many underestimate this fact, but true creativity and the ability to pull in your roleplay -partner/reader into a story is a difficult task, just as a writer. But it goes hand in hand with good writing ability because even though you might have a good plot and creativity, if your writing ability can't keep up with your story, you'd still bore the people.
As in with "Two liners"


Thank you!

[GothicFires]

It doesn't matter what your posting style is, there is always someone compatible that wants what you give.

I personally find it so difficult to write with a person who constantly posts less than 300 words. But there are others who prefer people who post less than 300 words.

The trick is find someone who writes like you are. As long as you and your writing partner are enjoying each other then you are doing something good.

[Infinitiveangie]

It doesn't matter what your posting style is, there is always someone compatible that wants what you give.

I personally find it so difficult to write with a person who constantly posts less than 300 words. But there are others who prefer people who post less than 300 words.

The trick is find someone who writes like you are. As long as you and your writing partner are enjoying each other then you are doing something good.

Hmm.. Yes.
Yet, understandably, I can understand how it gets tedious to work with someone that posts less than 300 words.
I hope I found someone I can click with like that. :-)

[Nico]

Personally, I love detail. The more, the better. I like to be surprised sometimes, and I really, really like people who can post paragraphs like I do. Much like GothicFires, I find it rather difficult to reply to a three sentence post when I write paragraphs, and get nothing of substance in return. Communication and patience are very important for me, as well.

But, those are my preferences, other have other preferences. As it was already said, as long as you and your writing partner matches in style, everything is good! :-)

[Infinitiveangie]

Personally, I love detail. The more, the better. I like to be surprised sometimes, and I really, really like people who can post paragraphs like I do. Much like GothicFires, I find it rather difficult to reply to a three sentence post when I write paragraphs, and get nothing of substance in return. Communication and patience are very important for me, as well.

But, those are my preferences, other have other preferences. As it was already said, as long as you and your writing partner matches in style, everything is good! :-)

Haha yes, as I said earlier, it's rather understandable.
That you want a story with a good plot, and substance as well.
As long as you can click with that person, it is all good.
But may I ask something of you, if I could maybe see a preview f your writing, just a paragraph orso, something old that you have already written, maybe?
I'm just rather curious.

It's fine if you can't/don't want to. :-)

Thank you for your reply!

[Nico]

Haha yes, as I said earlier, it's rather understandable.
That you want a story with a good plot, and substance as well.
As long as you can click with that person, it is all good.
But may I ask something of you, if I could maybe see a preview f your writing, just a paragraph orso, something old that you have already written, maybe?
I'm just rather curious.

It's fine if you can't/don't want to. :-)

Thank you for your reply!

I will see if I find something. ;D Have to go through my threads and find something suitable I can post here.

[Infinitiveangie]

I will see if I find something. ;D Have to go through my threads and find something suitable I can post here.

Oh alright dearie, thank you!!  :-)

[Nico]

There you go. It is from an old thread of mine.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

It was another Friday evening, just past 7 pm, and the Club was still closed. It was way too early, and they never opened before 10pm on weekends. Most patrons wouldn’t be here before midnight. The huge, blue neon sign above the main entrance was still turned off, reading “Babylon”. It was one of the best known, and one of the oldest gay bars in the area.

The club was located in a side street somewhere on the Upper East Side, a pretty nice neighbourhood, and one might think it would be safe. And it was safe, until maybe three months ago. This was when the homicides started. Apparently, a perverted serial killer was running free, praying on homosexual men. And they all were guests of Babylon, before their disappearance. The police found their bodies in the near Central Park. Naked and strangled.. and there was no trace of the murder.

By now, the whole Gay Community of New York City knew and talked about the deaths, and just a week ago, another body of a young man was found in Central Park. He still had the stamp of the Club on the back of his hand.

The Community started to get nervous and cautious after this, everyone asked themselves why it happened. Speculations run wild by now, about a crazed homophobe running around and killing young men.  All in all, the mood was pretty tense, even if most people kept going out and partying on the weekends or after work.

There was a police car parked infront of the entrance, and an Officer was talking to a man in his mid twenties. He was probably the manager of the club, and he was engaged in conversation with the police officer. The young man was dressed in a pair of washed out, blue Denims, sitting rather low on his hips. A simple, black tee over his chest and a pair of black adidas running shoes on his feet. He shook his head to what the police officer said.

"No, Officer, I'm sorry. Do you have any idea about how many guests we have here on the weekends? I don’t know them all. Of course, there’s the regulars and some friends, but we get a lot of tourists in summer. and business men from other cities. And sure, some act weird. They're either drunk or high." He chuckled and the cop wrote it all down. "We're already keeping our eyes open but there’s not much we can do, Officer. I knew the last victim. Andrew. He was pretty much a regular the past two years. But…I don't know if he left with someone or not. That happens pretty frequently, that two guys leave together."

The two men talked for a while longer before the Officer nodded and told the manager that they’ll keep an eye on the area and the manager nodded before he made his way back towards the Club entrance. The constant police presence wasn't so good for business, after all. It might start to scare the guests off.

[Infinitiveangie]

There you go. It is from an old thread of mine.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

It was another Friday evening, just past 7 pm, and the Club was still closed. It was way too early, and they never opened before 10pm on weekends. Most patrons wouldn’t be here before midnight. The huge, blue neon sign above the main entrance was still turned off, reading “Babylon”. It was one of the best known, and one of the oldest gay bars in the area.

The club was located in a side street somewhere on the Upper East Side, a pretty nice neighbourhood, and one might think it would be safe. And it was safe, until maybe three months ago. This was when the homicides started. Apparently, a perverted serial killer was running free, praying on homosexual men. And they all were guests of Babylon, before their disappearance. The police found their bodies in the near Central Park. Naked and strangled.. and there was no trace of the murder.

By now, the whole Gay Community of New York City knew and talked about the deaths, and just a week ago, another body of a young man was found in Central Park. He still had the stamp of the Club on the back of his hand.

The Community started to get nervous and cautious after this, everyone asked themselves why it happened. Speculations run wild by now, about a crazed homophobe running around and killing young men.  All in all, the mood was pretty tense, even if most people kept going out and partying on the weekends or after work.

There was a police car parked infront of the entrance, and an Officer was talking to a man in his mid twenties. He was probably the manager of the club, and he was engaged in conversation with the police officer. The young man was dressed in a pair of washed out, blue Denims, sitting rather low on his hips. A simple, black tee over his chest and a pair of black adidas running shoes on his feet. He shook his head to what the police officer said.

"No, Officer, I'm sorry. Do you have any idea about how many guests we have here on the weekends? I don’t know them all. Of course, there’s the regulars and some friends, but we get a lot of tourists in summer. and business men from other cities. And sure, some act weird. They're either drunk or high." He chuckled and the cop wrote it all down. "We're already keeping our eyes open but there’s not much we can do, Officer. I knew the last victim. Andrew. He was pretty much a regular the past two years. But…I don't know if he left with someone or not. That happens pretty frequently, that two guys leave together."

The two men talked for a while longer before the Officer nodded and told the manager that they’ll keep an eye on the area and the manager nodded before he made his way back towards the Club entrance. The constant police presence wasn't so good for business, after all. It might start to scare the guests off.

Oh my god.
You are so good!
I want to be able to get at that level, but either way, thank you, I very much appreciate it.
You're a talented roleplayer.  :-)

[Nico]

Oh my god.
You are so good!
I want to be able to get at that level, but either way, thank you, I very much appreciate it.
You're a talented roleplayer.  :-)

Aww, thank you. Writing is just another creative outlet for me. ;D
But, seriously, thank you for the compliment.

[Infinitiveangie]

Aww, thank you. Writing is just another creative outlet for me. ;D
But, seriously, thank you for the compliment.

I can imagine it is, I feel the same way concerning that.
And honestly, my pleasure.
No thank you is even needed, for only but saying the truth.  :-)

[Nico]

As for getting up on a certain level...practice makes perfect.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I am quite selfconscious about my writing. I want to make it really good, and create a story that my co writer can see from their minds eye. I'm a little perfectionist, at times. And now and then I read over a post and go like...damn, that's not good. ~laughs~ I'm rarely satisfied with my work, not only with writing, but with my job as well. This usually keeps me on my toes to get even better.

[Oniya]

There's talent on both ends of the spectrum.  You can write long posts that end up being 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing', or long posts that leave the reader hungry for even more.  You can write short posts that are dry and unfulfilling, or short posts that neatly capture an entire scene in a few sentences.  I believe it was Hemingway who achieved the record for that - an entire story in six words:  For sale: Baby shoes, never worn.

A good RP is like a game of catch.  Your partner throws you a post, and you have to be able to 'catch' it and throw it back.  How far you throw, or how complicated your trajectory only matters if your partner is able to catch it. 

[Bloodied Porcelain]

This is probably going sound like an odd answer, but I think the primary thing that makes someone a good RPer is empathy. The ability to put  yourself in someone else’s shoes (primarily your character’s) goes a looong way toward the quality of the RP you provide, regardless of  your posting style. Writing does, however, play a massive contributing role for me. I like lots of detail and lots of character and story development. Anyone who posts less than 4-500 words in a post loses my interest almost immediately, and my average post is around 6-800 words, ranging up over 1,000 if I’m really inspired. That being said, I find that you can teach people to write well, but empathy isn’t something that can be taught. Some of it is of course innate ability. Some people are just more powerful writers than others, but that doesn’t mean everyone who isn’t a naturally gifted writer isn’t good, it just means they have to work harder at it. Add in a dash of communication, compromise, passion, and a healthy dose of creativity and you have the makings for a great RPer.

I look at roleplaying as a mixture of improvisational acting, storytelling, and writing that kind of gets crammed together, fused and mixed until you find a happy medium.

[Infinitiveangie]

This is probably going sound like an odd answer, but I think the primary thing that makes someone a good RPer is empathy. The ability to put  yourself in someone else’s shoes (primarily your character’s) goes a looong way toward the quality of the RP you provide, regardless of  your posting style. Writing does, however, play a massive contributing role for me. I like lots of detail and lots of character and story development. Anyone who posts less than 4-500 words in a post loses my interest almost immediately, and my average post is around 6-800 words, ranging up over 1,000 if I’m really inspired. That being said, I find that you can teach people to write well, but empathy isn’t something that can be taught. Some of it is of course innate ability. Some people are just more powerful writers than others, but that doesn’t mean everyone who isn’t a naturally gifted writer isn’t good, it just means they have to work harder at it. Add in a dash of communication, compromise, passion, and a healthy dose of creativity and you have the makings for a great RPer.

I look at roleplaying as a mixture of improvisational acting, storytelling, and writing that kind of gets crammed together, fused and mixed until you find a happy medium.

You would assume that I would find this an "odd answer" but I actually feel so so so agreed with that. That's the thing about me, I can really shift into my character, but I feel as if I need a lot of practice because I can not pass 500 words normally. Even though I write short stories and I write articles as well as a freelancer, once it goes above that I am kind of lost. But thank you for your answer!
I believe that I found my definition right there. :-)

There's talent on both ends of the spectrum.  You can write long posts that end up being 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing', or long posts that leave the reader hungry for even more.  You can write short posts that are dry and unfulfilling, or short posts that neatly capture an entire scene in a few sentences.  I believe it was Hemingway who achieved the record for that - an entire story in six words:  For sale: Baby shoes, never worn.

A good RP is like a game of catch.  Your partner throws you a post, and you have to be able to 'catch' it and throw it back.  How far you throw, or how complicated your trajectory only matters if your partner is able to catch it. 

And I can honestly understand what you mean, and everyone indeed has their own preferences.

As for getting up on a certain level...practice makes perfect.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I am quite selfconscious about my writing. I want to make it really good, and create a story that my co writer can see from their minds eye. I'm a little perfectionist, at times. And now and then I read over a post and go like...damn, that's not good. ~laughs~ I'm rarely satisfied with my work, not only with writing, but with my job as well. This usually keeps me on my toes to get even better.

I believe you! We are own worst critics! And practice does make perfect, which is why I am not giving up. But I truly can not understand how you can find anything wrong with your posts. But constructive criticism is good as long as it's constructive, and as long as being a perfectionist doesn't dishearten you. (Sometimes I do it with myself, I end up demotivating myself... haha, god that sucks. :P
But either way, you've won over a new fan! :-)

[Bloodied Porcelain]

You would assume that I would find this an "odd answer" but I actually feel so so so agreed with that. That's the thing about me, I can really shift into my character, but I feel as if I need a lot of practice because I can not pass 500 words normally. Even though I write short stories and I write articles as well as a freelancer, once it goes above that I am kind of lost. But thank you for your answer!
I believe that I found my definition right there. :-)

My suggestion for starting out trying to expand on your posts and make them more detailed and whatnot is to explore your character's mind as much as you do their senses and actions. I spend a lot of time inside my character's head when I post... I try to take the reader through at least a breif version of what makes them feel the way they do or brings them to a particular conclusion. I honestly didn't even realize that was what I was doing for a long time, I just knew I'd "get lost" in his/her's thoughts for a while, and then eventually things would come to a nice, neat conclusion without me thinking about it or even realizing it. What we think and the way we think are such huge parts of who we are as people, it always baffles me when people glance over or don't mention their character's internal processes in their posts.

For Example

Blue eyes had gone wide with shock when the first man revealed himself to be none other than Lord Thorncroft. She'd never spoken to him or seen him this close before, but she knew his face as well as any other commoner in the Duchy did. Immediately, she felt panic squeezing at her chest. Why was such an important man here? Had her father done something to wrong the Duke? Had some of the milk been bad, or eggs cracked? Worry wormed its way in to her belly as she stood there, holding an awkward half-curtsying position.

You'll do, he'd said. She'd do... she'd do what? Still standing there feeling flustered and terrified, her legs aching from holding the awkward half-bowed position, Catlyn found herself questioning just what was happening. Her eyes instinctively glanced at the second cloaked man, and the sight of him caused a knot to form in the pit of her stomach. Something about him made her feel uneasy and wary, while another part of her... a part of her she rarely took in to consideration... felt warm and sensitive to even the smallest flex of her thigh muscles. The set of his jaw and the way his intense eyes stared at her caused that warmth to intensify and a small quiver to spread through her. Blushing all the more deeply at that realization, she looked away. Confession would be necessary, of that she was certain. No man should make her feel that way... and here she was reacting strongly to not just one, but two men.

At the command to make it to the keep at nightfall, she nodded, her movements feeling clumsy and awkward. "Aye, M'Lord," she got out on a soft voice, and it seemed they were ready to leave. Just as she began to stand, some of the tension in her muscles beginning to seep away, he spoke again. And that's when it happened, as she was instinctively acknowledging that he was speaking, the second man appeared right in front of her. The press of a blade against her breast pulled a soft, shocked gasp from her and her blue eyes stared up at him in horror and fear. His own eyes stared back at her, and what she saw there was confusing... it didn't match the coldness in his voice, or the way the press of his body felt too firm and unforgiving. Tears built in her own eyes, but he was gone before one of them could fall, withdrawing from her as the two turned and walked away at a brisk pace.

She stood and watched them go to horses she had taken no notice of at first, and when they were mounted and out of sight, she finally saw fit to move... to breathe at all. At first, only a sob left her. She could still feel the press of a blade against her body. Then a whimper... Her hands trembled as she recalled the way her entire body had seemed to warm at the sight of the Lord's young companion... handsome or not, she shouldn't have reacted the way she did.

Lips quivering, she stood staring around the empty farm for long moments before she finally forced herself to kneel and put the yolk on her shoulders once more. Standing slowly, tears continued to slide down her cheeks as she trudged her way toward the small house. She wasn't even entirely sure why she was crying as much as she was... except that deep down, something was telling her that going to the keep could very well be the worst possible thing she could do.

If only she had a real choice...

Note: I snipped a few lines for the sake of keeping it GA in rating and not pushing the envelope.

[Infinitiveangie]

My suggestion for starting out trying to expand on your posts and make them more detailed and whatnot is to explore your character's mind as much as you do their senses and actions. I spend a lot of time inside my character's head when I post... I try to take the reader through at least a breif version of what makes them feel the way they do or brings them to a particular conclusion. I honestly didn't even realize that was what I was doing for a long time, I just knew I'd "get lost" in his/her's thoughts for a while, and then eventually things would come to a nice, neat conclusion without me thinking about it or even realizing it. What we think and the way we think are such huge parts of who we are as people, it always baffles me when people glance over or don't mention their character's internal processes in their posts.

For Example

Blue eyes had gone wide with shock when the first man revealed himself to be none other than Lord Thorncroft. She'd never spoken to him or seen him this close before, but she knew his face as well as any other commoner in the Duchy did. Immediately, she felt panic squeezing at her chest. Why was such an important man here? Had her father done something to wrong the Duke? Had some of the milk been bad, or eggs cracked? Worry wormed its way in to her belly as she stood there, holding an awkward half-curtsying position.

You'll do, he'd said. She'd do... she'd do what? Still standing there feeling flustered and terrified, her legs aching from holding the awkward half-bowed position, Catlyn found herself questioning just what was happening. Her eyes instinctively glanced at the second cloaked man, and the sight of him caused a knot to form in the pit of her stomach. Something about him made her feel uneasy and wary, while another part of her... a part of her she rarely took in to consideration... felt warm and sensitive to even the smallest flex of her thigh muscles. The set of his jaw and the way his intense eyes stared at her caused that warmth to intensify and a small quiver to spread through her. Blushing all the more deeply at that realization, she looked away. Confession would be necessary, of that she was certain. No man should make her feel that way... and here she was reacting strongly to not just one, but two men.

At the command to make it to the keep at nightfall, she nodded, her movements feeling clumsy and awkward. "Aye, M'Lord," she got out on a soft voice, and it seemed they were ready to leave. Just as she began to stand, some of the tension in her muscles beginning to seep away, he spoke again. And that's when it happened, as she was instinctively acknowledging that he was speaking, the second man appeared right in front of her. The press of a blade against her breast pulled a soft, shocked gasp from her and her blue eyes stared up at him in horror and fear. His own eyes stared back at her, and what she saw there was confusing... it didn't match the coldness in his voice, or the way the press of his body felt too firm and unforgiving. Tears built in her own eyes, but he was gone before one of them could fall, withdrawing from her as the two turned and walked away at a brisk pace.

She stood and watched them go to horses she had taken no notice of at first, and when they were mounted and out of sight, she finally saw fit to move... to breathe at all. At first, only a sob left her. She could still feel the press of a blade against her body. Then a whimper... Her hands trembled as she recalled the way her entire body had seemed to warm at the sight of the Lord's young companion... handsome or not, she shouldn't have reacted the way she did.

Lips quivering, she stood staring around the empty farm for long moments before she finally forced herself to kneel and put the yolk on her shoulders once more. Standing slowly, tears continued to slide down her cheeks as she trudged her way toward the small house. She wasn't even entirely sure why she was crying as much as she was... except that deep down, something was telling her that going to the keep could very well be the worst possible thing she could do.

If only she had a real choice...

Note: I snipped a few lines for the sake of keeping it GA in rating and not pushing the envelope.

Interesting that you mentioned this, actually.
First and foremost, that was really good, and you're right. I do immediately see it from your characters point of view and almost from her own eyes, even. It's impressive.

And back to what I was going to say, the people who got me into roleplaying, actually told me I shouldn't do too much of that.
I absolutely love delving in my charscters thought process and feelings, but apparently you xan't do that too much otherwise the story becomes yours? As in you take too much of it's space.
But I really love how you have balanced it out.
Practice makes perfect, and people like you, or Nic up there, are those who really inspirate and motivate me to be that good, to be able to bring emotion to a character, and truly make that character be a living breathing thing... hypothetically speaking, in it's world. 

And I understand that you had to snip it.
Once I get approved (if I get approved) I'd like to read some full ones of yours though, if that is no problem. With them not beig snipped or GA material, specifically, anyway. :-)

[Bloodied Porcelain]

Interesting that you mentioned this, actually.
First and foremost, that was really good, and you're right. I do immediately see it from your characters point of view and almost from her own eyes, even. It's impressive.

And back to what I was going to say, the people who got me into roleplaying, actually told me I shouldn't do too much of that.
I absolutely love delving in my charscters thought process and feelings, but apparently you xan't do that too much otherwise the story becomes yours? As in you take too much of it's space.
But I really love how you have balanced it out.
Practice makes perfect, and people like you, or Nic up there, are those who really inspirate and motivate me to be that good, to be able to bring emotion to a character, and truly make that character be a living breathing thing... hypothetically speaking, in it's world. 

And I understand that you had to snip it.
Once I get approved (if I get approved) I'd like to read some full ones of yours though, if that is no problem. With them not beig snipped or GA material, specifically, anyway. :-)

You can look at my post history whenever you like. When you get approved, just click my name, then click "Show Posts". You may have to sort through some OOC stuff, but finding my posts shouldn't be hard. There's also a list of all my current (and past) games under the A/A link in my signature, which you'll also be able to see when you're approved.

And I tend to find that the people who tell you "don't do that" to things like getting inside of your character's head are people who are intimidated by the length in your posts and/or don't want to do the same, and think that you doing it is you trying to overpower their character's presence. In response to people like that, I usually inform them I'm going to look elsewhere for partners because it's clear our styles don't mesh.

I also greatly dislike it when someone tells me to alter my style to suit them... I don't do that to them, they shouldn't do it to me, simply out of respect for each other. Just make sure you look for people who posting styles you enjoy and that are close to your own, regardless of your preference on length and whatnot. I've had a lot of people tell me they won't RP with me because I'm too detailed, and I'm fine with that... I feel much the same way about them.. I can't RP with them because they're not detailed enough. It's nobody's fault, it's just a difference in style and preference.

On a side note/afer thought: When/If you get approved, when you're looking for RP partners, if you find someone who has a skill level higher than yours and you're aspiring to get to their level, don't be too intimidated to strike up conversation. Some might be willing to give you pointers and constructive criticism, some might even be willing to do a one-shot RP with you to help you develop. You'll never get any better if you don't challenge yourself, and I find most people that I've contacted on here that I feel are more skilled than are more than me willing to give me a shot. :)

[Infinitiveangie]

You can look at my post history whenever you like. When you get approved, just click my name, then click "Show Posts". You may have to sort through some OOC stuff, but finding my posts shouldn't be hard. There's also a list of all my current (and past) games under the A/A link in my signature, which you'll also be able to see when you're approved.

And I tend to find that the people who tell you "don't do that" to things like getting inside of your character's head are people who are intimidated by the length in your posts and/or don't want to do the same, and think that you doing it is you trying to overpower their character's presence. In response to people like that, I usually inform them I'm going to look elsewhere for partners because it's clear our styles don't mesh.

I also greatly dislike it when someone tells me to alter my style to suit them... I don't do that to them, they shouldn't do it to me, simply out of respect for each other. Just make sure you look for people who posting styles you enjoy and that are close to your own, regardless of your preference on length and whatnot. I've had a lot of people tell me they won't RP with me because I'm too detailed, and I'm fine with that... I feel much the same way about them.. I can't RP with them because they're not detailed enough. It's nobody's fault, it's just a difference in style and preference.

On a side note/afer thought: When/If you get approved, when you're looking for RP partners, if you find someone who has a skill level higher than yours and you're aspiring to get to their level, don't be too intimidated to strike up conversation. Some might be willing to give you pointers and constructive criticism, some might even be willing to do a one-shot RP with you to help you develop. You'll never get any better if you don't challenge yourself, and I find most people that I've contacted on here that I feel are more skilled than are more than willing to give me a shot. :)

It is agreed then, I shall do that as soon as I get approved.
And I agree with what you mean, now, that I know a biy more I believe you should never try to change someone's rp/writing style at all.
I'm a very detailed person as well, I am like that in all ways in my life, even when I'm not supposed to be I usually find myself trying hard to put everything down in a neat, short not too descriptive way.
And I will, I most definitely will.
And eventually, as I get bettee, if you haven't gone on Haitus or something, I would like to challenge you to an RP!
Or, well, nor specifically challenge, or more as just do as you said and do a one-shot RP so you can tell me what you think, constructive criticism and what not.

I believe you though, Elliquiy has a pretty lovely community all in itself. So I think I made the right choice here.

Thank you. :-)

[Thesunmaid]

Communication is huge for me personally...every single rp partner I have played for any amount of time I have a friendship with and I feel like I can talk to them and they can talk to me. When communications break down so does the scene for me. I like to get to know people I play with in their ooc life. I don't push myself into it but I make it that i am here for them if they need someone to talk to.

Also..plot! build up...bouncing idea's back and forth. I hate having people expecting me to come up with everything...recently I had an RP partner who was holding back and I was about to walk away until she told me what was wrong and we have tried something else and I think this will work better for us..again sort of goes back to talking to each other.

I used to personally...really quite suck at posting anything more than 1 or two lines but now I sometimes write small novels lol. Also don't get frustrated if you do not find the right fit the first few rp's you start into...it can take time. :) But it should not be hard...I have met some phenomenal people here on E...I had one bad experience with an asshole who discouraged me saying I was not posting up to his standards on the IRC channel...But I gave it another try and I found some wonderful people who have helped me to grow and get comfortable. Also yes i will admit I had him message me a year later not seeming to remember a year before he told me I sucked asking me to play raving about my posting.

Maybe a bit immature but I rubbed it in a bit about how he quite nastily told me I sucked but he did teach me a lesson...I learned be kind to the newbies.They can turn out to be wonderful amazing partners sometimes they just need to be encouraged. So I wish you luck my dear :)

[Infinitiveangie]

Hello! Thank you for your reply.

I agree with you on communication, I believe RP can bring great people together, and make friends, but all in all communication is key for it. You two have to be able to know each other's personality as well as the characters personality.

And yeah, I can understand. But as was said, practice makes perfect. So I believe mostly everyone started at one or two lines to be honest dear. ^^'
Thank you, though.
I can imagine, I've also met some pretty cool people on here, and this was only in what, three days tops?
Everyone is so very nice and helpful here, it's quite refreshing really. :-)

-Giggles- I can imagine, it isn't immature, what he told you was hurtful, and maybe so that you didn't post to his ratio, but he could have said it nicer, and not try to dishearten you by saying so.

I'm glad you found your way, and indeed I agree... Of course as being a newbie and everything.
Everyone has the potential if they dig deeper enough.

Thank you for the third time. ^.^

[Moraline]

Good RP is subjective on a highly individual basis.

RP itself means many things to many people and not everyone approaches those differing styles of RP the same. It's as varied or more so then literary styles and acting approaches since it can often contain elements of all of those things.

For me, I value a partner that is flexible and willing to go where the story takes us. At times I like long literary posts and others I prefer short fast posts. On occasion I like to plan things out, while others still I like everything to be completely spontaneous.

There are many different types of authors that range from the strictest form of architect writers with high levels of plans to those that like to plant wild seeds like a gardener and just let it all blossom into beautiful chaotic art. It runs a range of all approaches.

A good RP'r is someone that matches your personal desires and needs at the time that you choose to write with them. For some those ranges of needs are often close knit. They will find the same partners useful and desirable to work with most of the time. While for others they will need a wider range of partners to meet the variety of needs that they have. I'm personally of the latter category.

For me I look for:
Well read
Highly literate
Exceptionally creative
Flexible
Good Character acting/writing skills
Strong desire and enthusiasm for the RP in question
... most importantly - The ability to put up with my imagination, occasional flightiness, and whimsy.
*edit* Also they need to be willing to put up with my mistakes and the mistakes of others. There is nothing that kills the mood faster then an elitist snob who more then likely doesn't deserve the attitude that they exude.

[Infinitiveangie]

Good RP is subjective on a highly individual basis.

RP itself means many things to many people and not everyone approaches those differing styles of RP the same. It's as varied or more so then literary styles and acting approaches since it can often contain elements of all of those things.

For me, I value a partner that is flexible and willing to go where the story takes us. At times I like long literary posts and others I prefer short fast posts. On occasion I like to plan things out, while others still I like everything to be completely spontaneous.

There are many different types of authors that range from the strictest form of architect writers with high levels of plans to those that like to plant wild seeds like a gardener and just let it all blossom into beautiful chaotic art. It runs a range of all approaches.

A good RP'r is someone that matches your personal desires and needs at the time that you choose to write with them. For some those ranges of needs are often close knit. They will find the same partners useful and desirable to work with most of the time. While for others they will need a wider range of partners to meet the variety of needs that they have. I'm personally of the latter category.

For me I look for:
Well read
Highly literate
Exceptionally creative
Flexible
Good Character acting/writing skills
Strong desire and enthusiasm for the RP in question
... most importantly - The ability to put up with my imagination, occasional flightiness, and whimsy.
*edit* Also they need to be willing to put up with my mistakes and the mistakes of others. There is nothing that kills the mood faster then an elitist snob who more then likely doesn't deserve the attitude that they exude.

Well that is rather interesting...
You seem like you could be a rather great Roleplaying partner, to be honest.
I can understand all of your needs, and I'm thankful that you also understand snobs, stay snobs.
Even with how good and talented they are.
Because at some point (Most people tend to forget) you were also... Amateurish.
So people like that, I tend to love them at a distance by being in awe of their posts, but never wanting to actually Roleplay with them.
Thank you for your answer!

I personally tend to like the chaotic art that just blossoms out of nothing.
I like spontaneity in my Roleplay, as I am someone that doesn't like it at ALL in real life.
I like being in control and knowing everything,
So I suppose it is somewhat of a surprise, not to be able to know and/or dictate what happens further on in the plot.
But of course I would need someone that is compatible with me.

[Moraline]

If you are accepted - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the vast array of different RP partners that you'll find here. You may even feel a bit overwhelmed with it all at first - have no fear though. As you explore and poke around you'll find your way and others will find their way to you.

There is more different types of RP here then you can imagine, 9,542,047 Posts in 154,583 Topics worth of RP and RP related stuff to be precise.

Good luck on your acceptance process.

[Infinitiveangie]

Thank you!
I just got approved!
Sorry, so excited right now.  :-)

[Bloodied Porcelain]

Yay! Congrats!

[Infinitiveangie]

Yay! Congrats!

She giggled softly, waving towards the female.
Thank you!
I'm liking it a lot so far.

[Missy]

Welcome to Elliquiy


I am personally not the most confident roleplayer and actually find I am slower and more reluctant to take on tasks which I find challenging even if I want to do them. I eventually do them though because I'm not getting any better by avoiding it. I think the best partners are patient and communicative, I try to communicate with my partners as much as I am able even though I am not really the best conversationalist ever. I try to adapt my posts to the needs of the scene, encompassing enough detail to get the story across while not also being excessive to include unnecessary details irrelevant to the story or scene. I feel I have a lot of practice and learning to do before I can call myself even a decent RPer, but I've had other people tell me I was pretty good.


On another note since you mentioned RPing in virtual reality like in IMVU I might suggest second life as a decent medium, there are all types of course, but also a significant number of 'para-RPers', short for 'paragraph RPers', which you might be interested in.

[Infinitiveangie]

Welcome to Elliquiy


I am personally not the most confident roleplayer and actually find I am slower and more reluctant to take on tasks which I find challenging even if I want to do them. I eventually do them though because I'm not getting any better by avoiding it. I think the best partners are patient and communicative, I try to communicate with my partners as much as I am able even though I am not really the best conversationalist ever. I try to adapt my posts to the needs of the scene, encompassing enough detail to get the story across while not also being excessive to include unnecessary details irrelevant to the story or scene. I feel I have a lot of practice and learning to do before I can call myself even a decent RPer, but I've had other people tell me I was pretty good.


On another note since you mentioned RPing in virtual reality like in IMVU I might suggest second life as a decent medium, there are all types of course, but also a significant number of 'para-RPers', short for 'paragraph RPers', which you might be interested in.

Thank you, it's completely understandable, neither am I, obviously.
I am somewhat the same, I am not a good conversationalist at all, so most of my posts go on about maybe what's in my characters head, and the scene, and what he/she is doing with their bodies. But not so much texts...
I'll check that out!
Thanks a lot. :-)
And by the ideas you have, you seem like a decent, realistic rper.
So that's good.

Hope you're having/ have had a good day!

[ladia2287]

Hi Angie. Permit me to pass on a few pearls of wisdom from my own experience, having roleplayed online and in Live Action games for about seven years now. I daresay I will be repeating what has already been said by a number of others, but I hope I can still be of assistance

Roleplaying is a lot of fun. It's also a bit of a balancing act. Everyone has their own style; they know what they can and can't work with. For this reason, the first trick is to learn how to pick out those with whom you will work well. Easiest way to do this on E is to shoot them a PM, letting them know you're interested in starting a roleplay with them and ask if they will give you a link to one or more of their existing roleplays. From there you can work out whether or not their style is likely to work with yours. You can also get a vague idea of how regularly they post. Personally, as I come on here to roleplay as part of winding down after a long day, I am less likely to work with partners who post less than once a week, even if their plot idea sounds like good fun. Find someone whose posting frequency is fairly close to what suits you.

Trick number two is really important; you need to communicate with your roleplaying partner. Even if it's just basic stuff like "just letting you know I might not be able to post much in the next week or so". We all appreciate knowing what's going on. Also be willing to shoot them ideas for plot twists and recieve their ideas. And if they overstep your boundaries, don't be afraid to say so.

The third thing to know is where roleplaying can become a bit tricky; get to know your character before you use them. Get a clear idea in your head of what they're like. Even google some images so you have a solid idea of their appearance. Determine how they are likely to react to the situations proposed for the plot.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough, read. And write. A lot! I've been honing my creative writing skills for a very long time and I can honestly say that this is the best thing you can do to make your posts easier to write, and more enjoyable for you and your roleplaying partner. As you practise your writing, trust me, it will improve and so will the quality of your posts.

Other than that, I can only advise you to have as much fun as possible :)

[alextaylor]

Yeah, it's really hard to say. I think the main point is that they have to be good at communicating their imaginations.

They don't have to have great imaginations IMO. I've had some really awesome scenes which were completely cliche - friend/friend, friend's sister, cousin. Some lasted less than 500 words. Then there were the epics that went on for days (real time).

If anything, I find similar kinks to be a major part of it. Sure, they may have grand fantasies and be good at communicating them, but unless it's something I want to fantasize as well, it won't work if we don't click. A great philosopher once said that if a book tries to solve a problem, but you don't agree that it's a problem, then you should just put the book down and not bother reading it. If you don't believe in class warfare, don't read Karl Marx. If you don't like homesexual erotica, stay away from yaoi. It's not that they're bad, but they're just not your thing and you'll end up rating them much lower than what they deserve. There are plenty of exceptions, but as a loose guideline it works.

And then there's pace. A lot of people love length and deep storytelling. Some love brief, constant barrages of one liners. I lean towards the one liner crowd as long as there's plenty of content in it. I personally get entirely turned off when someone describes the background. But some love that. My focus is almost entirely on the characters. Some like to get completely immersed in the world and build it with a similarly minded person.

So you'd have to know what it is that you like and find someone with just that same taste. There is no real "good RPer", no more than there is "good food". But there are types that you'd love and types that are absolutely horrible. The nice thing about this place is that the horrible ones are filtered out.

[brokenvegetable]

Hello! :-)
I'm Angie, and as you can all see I'm rather new, but I wanted to ask something.
I know there's never one "good thing" But still, what would the multitude of you consider to be a good RPer?
Would that have to be someone that's more into details wise, someone that posts more paragraphs, so on so on?
I'm rather curious, because I have been RPing for a while but it's been on role-player.net and on IMVU.
And both of those there, it doesn't pass more than two paragraphs, for sure.

I'd appreciate it, thank you.  :D
I hope all of you have a nice night/day!

Someone that is not afraid to take chances in the roleplay, to make the roleplay what they want it to be. The key to keeping a rolepaly going is to keep it interesting and to always break at a good resting point, never in the middle of something unless it cant be helped.

Sometimes the simplest twist in the story can change the whole outcome of the roleplay. But twist and changes to the rolepaly are infact needed to keep it interesting and fresh. Just remember that the roleplay has no rules and you can make it WHATEVER you want it to be. Its best if there is a fight almost between you and the other rolepalyer as to fighting over back and forth as to how the roleplay should go.... fighting in character to get the rolepaly to go in the direction you want it to go in. if both of you want the same outcome then chances are the roleplay will end without much being said. 

[Toral Stimins]

Hi Angie. Permit me to pass on a few pearls of wisdom from my own experience, having roleplayed online and in Live Action games for about seven years now. I daresay I will be repeating what has already been said by a number of others, but I hope I can still be of assistance

Roleplaying is a lot of fun. It's also a bit of a balancing act. Everyone has their own style; they know what they can and can't work with. For this reason, the first trick is to learn how to pick out those with whom you will work well. Easiest way to do this on E is to shoot them a PM, letting them know you're interested in starting a roleplay with them and ask if they will give you a link to one or more of their existing roleplays. From there you can work out whether or not their style is likely to work with yours. You can also get a vague idea of how regularly they post. Personally, as I come on here to roleplay as part of winding down after a long day, I am less likely to work with partners who post less than once a week, even if their plot idea sounds like good fun. Find someone whose posting frequency is fairly close to what suits you.

Trick number two is really important; you need to communicate with your roleplaying partner. Even if it's just basic stuff like "just letting you know I might not be able to post much in the next week or so". We all appreciate knowing what's going on. Also be willing to shoot them ideas for plot twists and recieve their ideas. And if they overstep your boundaries, don't be afraid to say so.

The third thing to know is where roleplaying can become a bit tricky; get to know your character before you use them. Get a clear idea in your head of what they're like. Even google some images so you have a solid idea of their appearance. Determine how they are likely to react to the situations proposed for the plot.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough, read. And write. A lot! I've been honing my creative writing skills for a very long time and I can honestly say that this is the best thing you can do to make your posts easier to write, and more enjoyable for you and your roleplaying partner. As you practise your writing, trust me, it will improve and so will the quality of your posts.

Other than that, I can only advise you to have as much fun as possible :)

Just have to react on this. Since I am new here too. And I know my way around words, too easily sometimes. Which brings the balancing act in place. I am rapidly learning not to write everything I think. I might be too descriptive, yet on the other hand, when I read the ideas that people have, I am just overwhelmed. They scare me. It almost feels like there is no room for inventiveness. It feels to me that a lot of the desires that people have are so set in stone that I have no room but to accept whatever is being thrown at me.

I see page long desires for certain types of RP. With the first two, three or even more chapters already written. Characters built, the story line set. To me it feels like creativity is not really appreciated.

But, like I said, I am still new here. Reading is never the problem for me, it's always a surprise to me if I have got less than 5 books on the go, apart from all other things. I try to write, I have started a book somewhere, but I am stuck with that (and the fact that I am, naturally a lazy person) right now, I am not sure where to go next.

I have a few ideas in my head, but they're nowhere near to what a story should be like. Because I don't want to dictate the input from someone else. And just because of just about every RP request I see is so well thought out, so rigidly (apologies to use that word, it is how I feel it) set in stone, I daren't post anything myself. Just because I fear one might think I am not good enough.

I have tried approaching some people based on their requests, but they all came to nothing, because it left me feel that my ideas weren't thought out enough.

So, with all your experience, have you got some advise for me too?

[Oniya]

I've also seen lots of request threads that have a paragraph or less for the plot description (some even have lists of pairings like 'Boss/Secretary' and the like.)  I have one thread for my more detailed concepts and one for more 'sketches', but even then I try to leave a fair amount of freedom for my partner/s to fill in their own concepts.  Paying attention to O/O profiles (both your own and your potential partner's) goes a long way.  So does bringing your own ideas to the table within that context.

[Toral Stimins]

I've also seen lots of request threads that have a paragraph or less for the plot description (some even have lists of pairings like 'Boss/Secretary' and the like.)  I have one thread for my more detailed concepts and one for more 'sketches', but even then I try to leave a fair amount of freedom for my partner/s to fill in their own concepts.  Paying attention to O/O profiles (both your own and your potential partner's) goes a long way.  So does bringing your own ideas to the table within that context.

If someone (females in my case) has an O/O page, it's the first thing I look at, before I even start reading their desires or rp requests. Like I said, I am still new, mayhap I have been unlucky in clicking on the ones that put me off for now. And yes, I do have to admit that there are certain (types of) females, I think I cannot approach yet, because I think they are so well advanced in their writing that I am a mere nobody.

[Jag]

A good RPer is someone I have fun writing with. In the end, that's all it comes down to for me.

[Twisted Crow]

Generally, I find myself in agreement with Jagerin.

While this is entirely subjective, I feel that balance is what seperates a "fun RPer" from a writing perfectionist. In my own experiences I've known a few decent writers with creative minds that can be more fun to RP with than impeccable writers that were too obsessive with rules and their own style of writing. 

It's why I like some writers like R.A. Salvatore and Steven King. They tend to be a balance between Tolkien level of detail and "The battle lasted two hours. The End."

Heh.

[Blythe]

For me, I look for three things in a good roleplaying partner.

1. Communication: At bare minimum, I need someone willing to state what they like and don't like, not just at the beginning of a roleplay, but as it progresses. It's hard to keep up a quality game without communication, and when I'm not communicating as well with my RP partners, I can actually see the quality of the game decline over it, although it won't necessarily kill it entirely. But ideally, someone who is willing to discuss ideas, to build on what I suggest and is willing to have me do the same for their ideas. Communication is key to collaboration.

2. Empathy: I have a life. I go through ups and downs. Someone that understands why I might be more active or less active at a given time and is willing to work with me is going to get a long-term RP partner when they write with me. My creativity ebbs and flows, and a good roleplaying partner is someone who understands that and can either motivate me to get my Muse back or will weather some patience and wait for me.

3. Quality: I'm not concerned with post length most of the time; I look for partners to do two specific things in a post. They need to respond to my character, and they need to have their own character do something. If they fail to do the former, I will feel alienated, ignored, and distanced from the RP. My interest will wane very quickly. If they fail to do the latter, the burden of advancing plot falls solely on me, and that will frustrate me badly. I don't care if they manage to do both of these things in only one paragraph or whatever; so long as they respond to my character and their character is active, I can enjoy a good game.

[Infinitiveangie]

Wow!
Did not realize this has gotten so many replies.
First and foremost, thank you for all of the advice, everyone!
It has helped me a lot, especially through my first few roleplays I've started.
And even though I don't know much, I can definitely agree that communication, and the character responding to mine, are two of the most important things. Among other things, such as having fun, empathy and so on.

I could never be a writing perfectionist, but I try to put my all into my posts.
And that is all I can truly do, as a writer, and as an rper.

Thank you, once more.  :-)

[Twisted Crow]

I'm not concerned with post length most of the time; I look for partners to do two specific things in a post. They need to respond to my character, and they need to have their own character do something. If they fail to do the former, I will feel alienated, ignored, and distanced from the RP. My interest will wane very quickly. If they fail to do the latter, the burden of advancing plot falls solely on me, and that will frustrate me badly. I don't care if they manage to do both of these things in only one paragraph or whatever; so long as they respond to my character and their character is active, I can enjoy a good game.

I definitely can say that this is one of my few basic needs. Especially what I've bolded. I am no snob but I need a basic "Action+Reaction" give-and-take going on. Good post, Blythe. :)

[ladia2287]

Just have to react on this. Since I am new here too. And I know my way around words, too easily sometimes. Which brings the balancing act in place. I am rapidly learning not to write everything I think. I might be too descriptive, yet on the other hand, when I read the ideas that people have, I am just overwhelmed. They scare me. It almost feels like there is no room for inventiveness. It feels to me that a lot of the desires that people have are so set in stone that I have no room but to accept whatever is being thrown at me.

I see page long desires for certain types of RP. With the first two, three or even more chapters already written. Characters built, the story line set. To me it feels like creativity is not really appreciated.

But, like I said, I am still new here. Reading is never the problem for me, it's always a surprise to me if I have got less than 5 books on the go, apart from all other things. I try to write, I have started a book somewhere, but I am stuck with that (and the fact that I am, naturally a lazy person) right now, I am not sure where to go next.

I have a few ideas in my head, but they're nowhere near to what a story should be like. Because I don't want to dictate the input from someone else. And just because of just about every RP request I see is so well thought out, so rigidly (apologies to use that word, it is how I feel it) set in stone, I daren't post anything myself. Just because I fear one might think I am not good enough.

I have tried approaching some people based on their requests, but they all came to nothing, because it left me feel that my ideas weren't thought out enough.

So, with all your experience, have you got some advise for me too?

Again, this comes down to balancing. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had much luck with approaching people. Try setting up a request thread yourself. You don't need to go into scores of detail about what you want. Just half a dozen basic ideas, a link to your O&Os if they're set up, and some titbits about your particular Roleplaying style to help those who would match well with you hone in on you.

The other thing is don't give up. Elliquiy is home to some great RPers. Have a little faith in your ideas and in your creative skills. You'll be surprised at the positive impact that has on your potential partners and before you know it, the RPs should start building up ;)

[rou]

A good RP is like a game of catch.  Your partner throws you a post, and you have to be able to 'catch' it and throw it back.  How far you throw, or how complicated your trajectory only matters if your partner is able to catch it.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

To me, being a good RolePlayer is more about OOC than IC.

RolePlaying is a multiplayer sport, and there is as much variety among role players as there is among people. I think it’s kinda missing the point to focus simply on the content of somebody’s posts. Personally, I always have more fun with a game when I can laugh and enjoy myself with the person I’m writing with.

But even that isn’t a requirement for being a good role player. Just because I prefer to be friendly and talkative doesn’t mean that’s the way everybody wants to play. So here are the things that I think are vital to being a great role player.

Communication. If you can’t talk to your partner about what’s going on in the game, you’re going to have trouble. A lot of drama can come up through lack of communication. How can you be sure that your partner is having a good time if they don’t say anything? If you don’t ask? How can you solve problems if you don’t know that they’re there?

Consideration. Again, this is a multiplayer game. You are not the only participant. When you play from your character’s perspective, it’s easy to start to believe that the story is about your character, but it’s not. You’re only part of the story. Become invested in characters that don’t belong to you. Enjoy them not because they are of use to you, but because they belong to your partner. Don’t be self-absorbed.

Reading & Reaction. This one is huge! Read your partners posts closely. Maybe this is just a personal opinion as well, but for me there are few things as enjoyable as my partner picking out the subtleties of my writing. If I say first that the drawer was open, and that when the characters come back the drawer was closed, I’m utterly ecstatic if my partner notices this difference and infers that someone else was in the room, or even adds to the mystery themselves. Allowing your characters to react, or at least reacting via narration shows your partner that you’re paying attention. Conversely, talking about the sunny skies after your partner has mentioned the rainy weather can break the mood and, if done too often, make your partner feel as though you don’t care about the story.

This is just a start, honestly, but... I would rather one small paragraph riddled with poor grammar that shows my partner is being considerate and thinking about my part of the story than five long paragraphs of beautifully written prose in which my character or contribution is completely ignored.

I would say that you can never truly judge a good role player from seeing one post, or even only their posts. Good writers? Sure. But you can’t tell if they are being considerate to their partner unless you read the entire interaction over a span of time.

Also remember that good writing is often very economical and brief.

[ladia2287]

Also remember that good writing is often very economical and brief.

Yes! I have lost count of the number of people on this site who go on and on about how fantastic they supposedly are at writing and it takes them ten paragraphs to explain that a girl in a white dress boarded the boat. There's a difference between being descriptive and just inserting noise.

[GothicFires]

Yes! I have lost count of the number of people on this site who go on and on about how fantastic they supposedly are at writing and it takes them ten paragraphs to explain that a girl in a white dress boarded the boat. There's a difference between being descriptive and just inserting noise.

And yet this is, like most other things, subject to opinion. What may work for you, may not work for someone else. What works for someone else may not work for you.

I have standards that I require for a partner. Obviously since I have partners there are people who meet these requirements without being burdened to do so. If someone were to find my 10 paragraphs to be noise then obviously we wouldn't be suitable partners and we wouldn't be writing with each other.

[rou]

I understand the reason behind asking for a certain length of posts, but it frustrates me. There is nothing wrong with wanting great description about how the white dress hugged to the girl's skin and that the wind caused the skirt to flutter. I do love rich, and often verbose descriptions.

But once we're 15 posts in and our characters are having a friendly conversation and we already know that the wind is blowing and the dress is white and the boat is rocking and my character is sad and her hair is blonde and etc, and really all she's going to say right now is "Yes, I've considered that before..."

What am I supposed to do there? How am I supposed to come up with 4 paragraphs without either restating something that's already been said, filling my character's heads with thoughts and memories that they probably can't actually fit within the 10 seconds of screentime they're getting, having them say or do more and thus restricting my partner's ability to respond to the first thing I said, or bringing in details so pointless they're perfectly round?

[Twisted Crow]

I'm in both Ladia and Roulette's camp here.

(Sorry for my quoting botch. I don't know what happened there.)

[GothicFires]

I understand the reason behind asking for a certain length of posts, but it frustrates me. There is nothing wrong with wanting great description about how the white dress hugged to the girl's skin and that the wind caused the skirt to flutter. I do love rich, and often verbose descriptions.

But once we're 15 posts in and our characters are having a friendly conversation and we already know that the wind is blowing and the dress is white and the boat is rocking and my character is sad and her hair is blonde and etc, and really all she's going to say right now is "Yes, I've considered that before..."

What am I supposed to do there? How am I supposed to come up with 4 paragraphs without either restating something that's already been said, filling my character's heads with thoughts and memories that they probably can't actually fit within the 10 seconds of screentime they're getting, having them say or do more and thus restricting my partner's ability to respond to the first thing I said, or bringing in details so pointless they're perfectly round?

That would be something you need to discuss with the partner of the story in question because solutions to the problem depend on what your partner is willing to work with and what you are willing to write.

[rou]

Usually, I would agree. I mean, I mostly DO agree.

But it frustrates me more because the demand for larger posts is everywhere, and it just looms over the entire community. I'm frustrated with having partners apologize to me because once or twice they post less than two paragraphs. I'm frustrated with my partners feeling intimidated by needing to match my posts when I know their response needs only be a few lines long, especially when that intimidation causes them to take longer to reply. I'm frustrated with feeling obligated to do the same. I'm frustrated with feeling insecure, like my partner will think that I'm lazy, etc, if I give them a small post, and sometimes it keeps me from replying to them.

I'm frustrated with my partners writing that their character asks mine a question, and then answers in themselves, and then asks another question, and then goes and does something else. I'm tired of characters having three conversations at a time, because my partner and I are insecure about our post size.

And this affects me AND the partners I play with, even despite discussing "flexible post size," or RPing together for months and years. Because that message is everywhere. More is better. Less is lazy and incompetent.

[ladia2287]

Usually, I would agree. I mean, I mostly DO agree.

But it frustrates me more because the demand for larger posts is everywhere, and it just looms over the entire community. I'm frustrated with having partners apologize to me because once or twice they post less than two paragraphs. I'm frustrated with my partners feeling intimidated by needing to match my posts when I know their response needs only be a few lines long, especially when that intimidation causes them to take longer to reply. I'm frustrated with feeling obligated to do the same. I'm frustrated with feeling insecure, like my partner will think that I'm lazy, etc, if I give them a small post, and sometimes it keeps me from replying to them.

I'm frustrated with my partners writing that their character asks mine a question, and then answers in themselves, and then asks another question, and then goes and does something else. I'm tired of characters having three conversations at a time, because my partner and I are insecure about our post size.

And this affects me AND the partners I play with, even despite discussing "flexible post size," or RPing together for months and years. Because that message is everywhere. More is better. Less is lazy and incompetent.

To me, posting size should always be flexible. I have no trouble coming up with a dozen good sized paragraphs if I have a reason to actually do so, such as introducing a dramatic plot twist. But at the same time, I need the flexibility to not feel under pressure to write more when it isn't necessary. I actually recall telling one of my early partners here "There's only so much detail I can put into 'My character followed yours into his house'."

I've had potential partners insult my writing and my RPing in general because I just find it utterly exhausting to come up with millions of paragraphs for every single post. Now, I refuse to take partners on unless they agree to allow that flexibility in my post length.

[rou]

I agree, Ladia.

I do also find it frustrating though because to some extent, a lot of the 'good' writers do actually follow this idea, whereas less competent writers are more likely to jump on board with someone who doesn't enforce a word count. So I can understand the desire to set standards, because to some extent you're not really going to run into people who have a lousy grasp of language skills if you're asking for large posts. But I still feel its an arbitrary rule, and harmful.

When someone decides not to RP with me because I can't promise 3+ paras a post, we both lose a good partner, and that makes me sad.

[GothicFires]

No one should insult your writing skills. If someone doesn't meet my personal requirements, then I tell them our writing styles do not match and wish them luck finding someone else.

While you may find it difficult to write with someone who expects posts of a certain length, I find it difficult to respond to post that are under a certain length. When i was a GM I tried, really tried not to require a minimum word count. Then i would have to reply to one liners and people who didn't even try to come up with a paragraph and I would get headaches and physically ill trying to reply to these people.

Find people who have the same expectations as you but do not bash people who have different expectations. Perhaps they may be better or worse writers than you, but as you they have a right to their expectations. If you don't match then move on and find someone you will be happy with and who will be happy with you.

[ladia2287]

I agree, Ladia.

I do also find it frustrating though because to some extent, a lot of the 'good' writers do actually follow this idea, whereas less competent writers are more likely to jump on board with someone who doesn't enforce a word count. So I can understand the desire to set standards, because to some extent you're not really going to run into people who have a lousy grasp of language skills if you're asking for large posts. But I still feel its an arbitrary rule, and harmful.

When someone decides not to RP with me because I can't promise 3+ paras a post, we both lose a good partner, and that makes me sad.

There is nothing wrong with expecting good writing. I myself make it clear that I will quickly drop any player whose posts portray them as illiterate. My standards even there are flexible; any who read my request thread will note that I at least expect them to speak and write better English than my niece, who is about to turn four (these standards may seem really low, but surprisingly enough I have had to drop three partners on that basis, even though everyone on this site is a lot older than 4. But I get annoyed at writers who insist that length always equals quality, therefore short length equals poor quality. I also get annoyed at those who say "I'm a published author so only my style of writing is any good". Guess what? Technically, every member here is published.

Ironically, I had one former partner accuse me of posting one-liners when ALL of my posts were longer than his

[rou]

Find people who have the same expectations as you but do not bash people who have different expectations. Perhaps they may be better or worse writers than you, but as you they have a right to their expectations. If you don't match then move on and find someone you will be happy with and who will be happy with you.

I am not trying to bash anybody. No individual is responsible for the problem. I don't at all blame you or look down on you for setting the expectations that you do.

I have to ask, though: When you say that you find it difficult to respond to posts under a certain length, do you mean you find it difficult to think of any response whatsoever--or do you just find it hard to write 3 paragraphs in response to 3 lines? There are some situations which call for a couple 3 lined posts on each side, etc.

Why is it difficult to respond? Because there is nothing for your character to react to? Because it's bad practice, no matter how much is written, to often leave the other player without a reasonable way to respond in character or build off of your post.

I know that if I write just a few lines, personally, chances are my character has said something or done something to the other. Responding should be easy, because all your character has to do is respond in turn.

"Hello, how are you?"
"I'm good, how about you?"

No, that's totally not very engaging RP right there. But it's a post and its a response.

GothicFires, I am by no means trying to insult you or bash you, and if I am in anyway upsetting or offending you, please let me know.

[GothicFires]

There is nothing wrong with expecting good writing. I myself make it clear that I will quickly drop any player whose posts portray them as illiterate. My standards even there are flexible; any who read my request thread will note that I at least expect them to speak and write better English than my niece, who is about to turn four (these standards may seem really low, but surprisingly enough I have had to drop three partners on that basis, even though everyone on this site is a lot older than 4. But I get annoyed at writers who insist that length always equals quality, therefore short length equals poor quality. I also get annoyed at those who say "I'm a published author so only my style of writing is any good". Guess what? Technically, every member here is published.

Ironically, I had one former partner accuse me of posting one-liners when ALL of my posts were longer than his

I see people who say what they expect of their partner in their o/o's. I have read anywhere in this site (of course i have not read everything) that anyone has said that 'if you don't write my way then you aren't a good writer'. In my o/os I explain to potential partners what keeps me happy. I am honest. This is what it takes. If the person looking doesn't like my required list then they would not be happy writing with me and I would not be happy writing with them. These people that you are 'annoyed with' why not just ignore them and move on? Why let strangers even cause you the energy and emotion of being annoyed?

I personally can write a post over 300 words with out even trying. It is rare (but has happened recently) where I couldn't. But it is the line I set because of personal experience. I am not happy when I constantly post longer then my partner. And this does not even consider how good a person is as a writer. I have written with people of various talents. But I know what makes me happy.

A person who expects from a partner what they put into it, is only a person being honest with what they expect and that should be respected, even if you don't agree with it.

I am not trying to bash anybody. No individual is responsible for the problem. I don't at all blame you or look down on you for setting the expectations that you do.

I have to ask, though: When you say that you find it difficult to respond to posts under a certain length, do you mean you find it difficult to think of any response whatsoever--or do you just find it hard to write 3 paragraphs in response to 3 lines? There are some situations which call for a couple 3 lined posts on each side, etc.

Why is it difficult to respond? Because there is nothing for your character to react to? Because it's bad practice, no matter how much is written, to often leave the other player without a reasonable way to respond in character or build off of your post.

I know that if I write just a few lines, personally, chances are my character has said something or done something to the other. Responding should be easy, because all your character has to do is respond in turn.

"Hello, how are you?"
"I'm good, how about you?"

No, that's totally not very engaging RP right there. But it's a post and its a response.

GothicFires, I am by no means trying to insult you or bash you, and if I am in anyway upsetting or offending you, please let me know.

I am not taking this personally and my 'you' is a universal reader.

Sometimes i have difficulty thinking of a response.
If i constantly post longer than my partner, it builds resentment. It feels like I am putting in more effort and the one driving the story.
I have never been in a situation, ever where three sentences were required for a post.

It doesn't make me happy. It makes me miserable. I don't have fun.

What I am trying to point out here is that why is it a big deal to anyone that doesn't like someone else's requirements for their writing enjoyment that they have those requirements? If you can't consistently post more than 300 words with out it feeling like a chore then you wouldn't be a good match for me. I've been known to exchange posts over 600 words with partners. I recently wrote a post over 1800 words. If this isn't you we won't be a good match. So why be upset that people like I state our expectations of words or paragraphs?

You either can or cannot meet a potential partner's expectations. If you can, they say hello. If you cannot why give anymore thought to it?

[ladia2287]

I see people who say what they expect of their partner in their o/o's. I have read anywhere in this site (of course i have not read everything) that anyone has said that 'if you don't write my way then you aren't a good writer'. In my o/os I explain to potential partners what keeps me happy. I am honest. This is what it takes. If the person looking doesn't like my required list then they would not be happy writing with me and I would not be happy writing with them. These people that you are 'annoyed with' why not just ignore them and move on? Why let strangers even cause you the energy and emotion of being annoyed?

I personally can write a post over 300 words with out even trying. It is rare (but has happened recently) where I couldn't. But it is the line I set because of personal experience. I am not happy when I constantly post longer then my partner. And this does not even consider how good a person is as a writer. I have written with people of various talents. But I know what makes me happy.

A person who expects from a partner what they put into it, is only a person being honest with what they expect and that should be respected, even if you don't agree with it.

I am not taking this personally and my 'you' is a universal reader.

Sometimes i have difficulty thinking of a response.
If i constantly post longer than my partner, it builds resentment. It feels like I am putting in more effort and the one driving the story.
I have never been in a situation, ever where three sentences were required for a post.

It doesn't make me happy. It makes me miserable. I don't have fun.

What I am trying to point out here is that why is it a big deal to anyone that doesn't like someone else's requirements for their writing enjoyment that they have those requirements? If you can't consistently post more than 300 words with out it feeling like a chore then you wouldn't be a good match for me. I've been known to exchange posts over 600 words with partners. I recently wrote a post over 1800 words. If this isn't you we won't be a good match. So why be upset that people like I state our expectations of words or paragraphs?

You either can or cannot meet a potential partner's expectations. If you can, they say hello. If you cannot why give anymore thought to it?

I never said it's a big deal. My lament is for the fact that I have come across numerous writers who have seen fit to put me down because I have dared to explain that my post length will vary. It isn't just one or two. It's quite a significant number. Yes, you may prefer longer posts and writing long posts may come easy for you. But I have been bashed because that is not me. I have been insulted quite blatantly because my concept of Roleplaying doesn't involve trying to come up with pages upon pages of detail for a single post. And I have been made to feel inadequate as a writer and as an RPer because I ONLY wrote three paragraphs, and not eight, nine or ten.

Some writers love long posts. But for me, I've actually felt godmodded by them, and then it simply adds salt to the wound when a partner complains that I'm a crappy writer for no other reason than I couldn't stretch out a simple greeting into a thesis-length post. That is what makes me miserable. You may prefer your style over mine, but I see no excuse to make me feel bad over it.

[GothicFires]

Yes, that sucks and no one should do that to another person, especially on a site where everyone is supposed to be an adult. When you come across people like that, write them off as jerks and be thankful you didn't get involved in an rp with them. Then find someone with whom you can be happy writing with.

[rou]

I personally can write a post over 300 words with out even trying.
...
It feels like I am putting in more effort and the one driving the story.

This is why. I'm not saying I don't understand the feeling, and I'm not blaming you for having it, and I'm not trying to twist your words or call you a hypocrite. I'm just saying that you are not alone in the association that less is lazy, and while you seem very well-intentioned and understanding, others aren't.

I don't want my partners to think that I'm lazy, but I hear this sort of thing all the time. The people that I want to RP with--usually the people that can make compelling characters and write well--are often verbose. Which is great, fine, sure. I can be verbose.

This post drives me mad with how much I see wrong with it. I'm still fixing it up, fleshing it out, to make it better. It's a starter and an introduction. It's over 1000 words long, and counting. But, admittedly, there's a good bit going on. It's 1000 words of people talking, discussing, moving about. I couldn't possibly write such a thing if I only played one character and not the two that are present. (No, I'm not expecting you to read my post--like I said, it's not even finished!)

1000 words

“Ester, where are my things?”

Amara’s voice was assertive, and yet it trembled. She stood in the doorway of the dimly lit room, shadows cast over her tired form. She let her gaze move around the chamber. The mahogany wardrobe doors hung ajar from their hinges, exposing the bare back of the container. The drawers beneath it were open and just as empty, with only spare bits of clothing that had seemed to have been overlooked. The sheets and decorations were stripped from the bed, where Ester had been sitting moments before. Now, the handmaiden stood, approaching Amara with a soft caution.

“My lady, you were informed of our leave.” The words were as kind and gentle as Ester herself, as though she spoke to a frightened fawn caught in a thorn bush.

They both stood still for several moments, before Amara lowered herself into the cushioned chair that stayed by the hearth. There were no flames now, but still the embers glowed in the hearth, and there was a remnant of heat rising from the coals. It was not yet evening, and light poured in through the open window on the far side of the wall, casting long shadows upon them.

Amara’s body sagged. She had always been a very beautiful young girl, the envy of many of her peers, and even now there was a remnant of beauty in her pitiful state. But the day had worn heavily on her, and the grief that consumed her kept away all hints of a smile. Her green eyes were glossed with emotion, and the bags under her eyes betrayed her weariness. Beneath her extravagant dress, she looked smaller. She was like a child, and she did not belong in such a position.

“I had not thought we would leave so soon,” the young noblewoman said.

Ester nodded, moving forward and placing her hands gently on the blue cloth that covered Amara’s shoulders. “Do not be afraid, my lady,” she told her, offering a warm smile. Amara had been gifted with a lovely handmaiden, a few years her elder, but not one that rivaled her in beauty. Where Amara’s hair was a wavy, light brown, Ester’s was a pale blonde, and fell from her head in long, straight lines. The handmaiden’s smile was her most charming feature, and had always comforted Amara, but now it was of no use.

She shrugged the woman away. “When do we depart?”

“A carriage awaits us.”

“At the gates?”

“No, my lady.”

Amara fell silent once more. Her gut felt as though it would tear apart just then. They would be leaving through one of the smaller entrances, where they would not be seen. It was the greatest insult that could have been laid upon her, then. Her mouth ran dry.

“It is for your protection, my lady.”

“Who should care to bring me harm? Who would dare?”

Ester did not answer. Two men, armored in steel, came to Amara’s doorway. They were taller, and more brutish than she was accustomed to, the decorative point of their helmets nearly scraping the top of the arch. She turned a weary eye on them as they announced their presence.

“Where are my guards?” she asked them.

“They were relieved of their duties, Lady Amara. We shall be your new guards.”

“Why?”

“... With all due respect, my lady, they were spellswords.”

The anger that boiled under Amara’s skin threatened to burn her alive, and she could not even care for the cruel gaze that Ester cast to the men in her defence. She was on her feet in just a moment, pushing past the men when they caught her fearlessly with their metal arms, refusing to let her go. She spewed her bloody curses at them, and they did not blink. All she could find in their eyes was pity.

“I need to speak to the prince,” she demanded. “He will take care of this.”

“I’m sorry, my lady, but it is on the prince’s orders that we are here to escort you.”

The soft words were enough finally to calm Amara. The reminder of her bethrothed’s betrayal. She grit her teeth, pulling the heavy cloak off of its hook and throwing it around her shoulders.

“Please,” she murmured, barely able to contain the contempt in her voice. “Lead the way. Escort me.”

- - - - -

There was too much time to think, in the carriage. Too much silence. Ester did her job well, with a smile that did not falter, always ready to comfort Amara should she need the kindness. But Amara could not stand being coddled in such away, carefully gazed upon as though she were a rabid animal that needed to be watched.

“It is difficult, what’s happened to you.”

Amara glanced up, meeting Ester’s gaze once more. This time, the smile was weak on the woman’s face, and she looked at her lady with only true concern.

“Are you fully aware of what’s happened, Ester?”

The woman shook her head. “No. I was given a bit of information, but not much. People of my station are not given detailed accounts. We are simply expected to obey. I just meant... The suddenness, the relocation. It’s okay to be upset.”

“They called me a Devourer.”

“Pardon, my lady?”

“A Devourer. The common term for someone who consumes the essence of other magic-bearing creatures. They are very few, but they are among the most feared beings in the realms.”

“I thought Devourers were only monsters of legend.”

“As did I.”

Amara could hear the heavy steps of the horses on the cobblestone, the turning of the wheels beneath them. The utter terror of the man’s scream filled her ears still now, and his withered form on the ground greeted her with every blink of her eyes. She had unfathomable fortune that she’d not been put to death for the incident, but she refused to see the worth in living on.

A touch. All it had been: a simple touch, and a man lay dead at her feet.

Perhaps this is a better example. Here is my starter (again, not my best work, but I allowed myself to relax and have fun with this one).

478 words

“Caella, would you bring me another candle?”

“Yes, Your Highness.”

“Quickly, please.”

“Yes, Your Highness.”

Eliana sat before her vanity, toiling with the rich auburn hair that fell around her shoulders. No matter how she tried, she could not get it to set right, no matter how pointlessly silly it was to fuss over her appearance at this hour. For the dim lighting, she could hardly see herself in the mirror despite the number of candles her handmaiden had already lighted on the vanity. She was more likely to set fire to her hair than make a beauty of it.

“If I may, Princess--”

“You may not,” Eliana replied, knowing that Caella would only offer to help her with her hair, as handmaidens are meant to do. But the princess had always been stubborn, and displeased to be touched by any she did not know well. Caella had been her handmaiden for two years now, and Eliana only allowed her near when it was necessary, and the style too complicated to be handled on her own. Nonetheless, she thanked the girl for lighting yet another candle upon the vanity, where now there were eleven.

“Remind me, Caella, of the date?”

“It’s the eve of the Winter Solstice, nearing midnight now.”

Eliana’s pale lips curved into a smile, just enough to form shallow dimples on her cheeks. This was--and would always be--her favorite night of the year. There was a chill that swept in through the window. Normally, there was a curtain to keep out the cold, but tonight she had requested to see the stars. The sky was clear, but there was no moon tonight. All the better; it would be very dark.

Every Winter Solstice, at midnight, she and her brother went unsupervised to the lake. It was a long standing tradition that had roots in their childhood. But this year was the eleventh year, and Eliana was rather fond of the number eleven. The eleventh year, if she could help it, would be far greater than the years that came before it.

Finally--and hesitantly--content with her hair, Eliana rose from her seat, beckoning her handmaiden to tighten her bodice. The princess was nearly four fingers shorter than her handmaid, and this was no surprise. Everything about her was uncharacteristicly small and petite. Tonight she wore what she called her ‘running dress’: it was significantly less bulky than the other gowns she wore during the day. While she did wear a bodice with it, she always wore it much looser for comfort. Its fabrics were a pale blue that glowed when the light caught it, and the bodice itself was only a few shades darker, so that she looked altogether as though a beautiful phantom in the night.

“Don’t wait up for me,” she told her handmaiden, slipping out of her bedroom door.

And this is a post from far later in the story.

48 words

Eliana saw the intent in the eyes, because it was the same intent she’d had. But she would indulge him, if only because she loved the look of victory that always swept over his features. “You wouldn’t,” she taunted him, her lips twitching into a smile as she readied herself to run.

In total, that RP has now come to a total of over 3,000 words on my part alone, and it has only been a few days. I've enjoyed the quick interaction of my characters.



My point is just that, as a whole, I think it's a problem. I think that the effect of this combined mindset a lot of players have is bigger than one individual's behavior. I think it causes insecurities in the masses. I think that people start demanding larger posts because that's what they think they're supposed to do. I don't think everybody has the same thorough insight that you do about why you ask for it, GothicFires. And I think there is an entire atmosphere of insecurity about post size that lives in the RP community, rather than just a few people who you can say are jerks and call it a day. I don't even think that everybody who equates quality with size is a jerk to begin with.

[GothicFires]

Woah. You just put words in my mouth and I don't appreciate that.

'It FEELS like I am putting in more effort and the one driving the story.' does not equal that I believe the other person is lazy. It does not mean that any other person who feels like this believes the other person is lazy either. It means that it is a feeling that is likely to develop when two partners are not compatible with each other.

My point is just that, as a whole, I think it's a problem. I think that the effect of this combined mindset a lot of players have is bigger than one individual's behavior. I think it causes insecurities in the masses. I think that people start demanding larger posts because that's what they think they're supposed to do. I don't think everybody has the same thorough insight that you do about why you ask for it, GothicFires. And I think there is an entire atmosphere of insecurity about post size that lives in the RP community, rather than just a few people who you can say are jerks and call it a day. I don't even think that everybody who equates quality with size is a jerk to begin with.

You are putting assumptions where you honestly have no right to. It could be that people are demanding larger posts because they know that is what is required for them to be happy. I have a minimum post requirement because after 7 years of writing I know that is the minimum that I will be happy with. I'm not going to fuss about 290. But if someone agrees to write with me and then starts giving me between 50 and 290 post consistently then me and that person have a problem.

I have never had someone complain that my posts where too long, because both me and my partner agreed that is how we would write. If you approached me for a game, then you would have to agree that every one of your posts needed to be at least 300 words long. the 48 word post would be unacceptable. If i approached you for a game, then i would be agreeing to your style of playing where post could vary between 1000 and 48.

There are people out there who are ok with your style of writing. There are people out there who think that anything over 48 words is a waste of time and too long winded. Different things make different people happy. Stop assuming that other adults are not smart enough to be able to determine between what they want to be happy with a story and doing something just because other people are doing it.

[ladia2287]

I think what roulette actually means is that the way some RPers go about explaining their own expectations could actually be taken as a deliberate insult even if it isn't meant that way. It is reasonable enough to draw the conclusion that you were implying that anyone writing a shorter post was lazy and many reasonable adults would draw that same logical conclusion from being told that another player is putting more effort in than they are. I would be downright offended if such a statement had been made to me, because I know that I am putting in effort.

And the fact remains that many RPers who are accustomed to shorter lengths do feel intimidated, myself included, by the sheer number of members who refuse point-blank to work with anyone who cannot consistently write extremely long posts every single time they reply. I've lost count of the number of request threads that I've clicked on thinking that the idea sounded interesting, only to find the requesting member would consider me 'illiterate' (their own words, not mine), simply because my technique is more suited to RPs where the greater majority of posts are under 100 words and longer posts are saved for significant turning points in the story. roulette is not making assumptions at all. She is merely stating an observation and a reasonable conclusion that could be drawn from that observation.

All we short-post RPers ask is for our style to be respected in its own right, just as you expect us to respect your style, and not to have insults and drama every time we dare to point out that we believe that quantity doesn't always equal quality. Everyone is entitled to their opinion GothicFires. All I ask is that long-post RPers respect mine and my own style of writing.

[GothicFires]

No it's not reasonable enough to draw the conclusion that i was implying that anyone writing a shorter post was lazy. Because I did not say they were lazy. I said we were not compatible. I said that eventually I would grow to resent that incompatibility and that it would not be fun for me.

And respect goes the both ways. When I have read your post about people who take 10 paragraphs to write about a girl in a white dress getting on a boat was nothing but fluff. That isn't respectful of that person's writing style. I just spent 14 paragraphs writing about a man in blue dancing. I could have written it in 2 paragraphs. I probably could have made the entire point of the post in less than 100 words. But it was 14 paragraphs and over 1800 words. The two people I wrote it for (me and my partner) loved it. There was not one wasted word.

So while quantity may not equal quality, the same can be said for a shorter post.

Any time i have seen the word 'illiterate', I associate that with being able to put a subject and predicate together to form a sentence, not how many sentences that a person can string together. If you can read, you've met that requirement.

But what you have been asking is not that you be respected in your own right. If it were that then I wouldn't have felt the need to post again in this thread. What you are asking is that for those who write longer posts to change their requirements and write with anyone regardless of their desires and wants. I respect people who write short posts. I just won't write with them because neither of us would be happy.

My point as always been, stop being unhappy about people who's writing style you are not compatible with and find those who have the same desire and need as yours. No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. If you find someone's remarks degrading, then disregard that person as someone you do not wish to write with and move on.

Edited to ad: You cannot demand respect from another person. The only thing you can do is control your own actions and reactions. I also believe that I have said all I can on the matter.

[Toral Stimins]

This has become a very interesting thread. I'm staying somewhere in the middle I think, that balancing act. But I keep to my words of earlier in the thread, that some writers scare me away by the lengthy cravings they have, which is a shame, because more often than not they could be really good. But that's just me, too impulsive, as always.

[rou]

GothicFires, I genuinely hope that you read this post, and that you aren't entirely done with the thread. I'm not even sure that Ladia has fully understood me, which means I've done a very poor job of explaining myself.

I did not put words in your mouth, and I tried to acknowledge that the way I quoted you was a little underhanded, but I wasn't trying to make you look bad. I was trying to point out the FEELING that I do think affects a lot of people. And I said I understand that feeling and I don't think badly of you for having it.

I did not say that you believe short-posters are lazy and unintelligent. I only said that, from what you've said, you realize there is an association. Nobody can blame you or hold you accountable for your feelings, because that's not fair. You grow resentful and begin to feel that you're being ripped off, and so you go ahead and avoid RPing with those people. That is a good and responsible thing to do, because it avoids conflict!

I have the right to make assumptions about what's going on in the RP community as a whole. I am not insulting or disrespecting any person or their individual style. I am not saying that I'm right, or that there aren't other explanations. My thoughts and my opinions stem from the experiences I've had in my own 9 years as a role player.

Basically, this argument isn't about you and whether you're a jerk, because you seem to be the exception, in my opinion. I'm trying to discuss whether this affects a large number of people and what that effect is.

One of those experiences is the use of the words illiterate, semi-literate, literate, and advanced literate to describe role players. I mention again that I have not been complaining about a single person at E. These terms were, when I was there, mostly present at Gaia Online, but I've seen them used with frequency elsewhere. As you said, GothicFires, literate just means you're able to read and write, and there existed people who pointed out as such and modified the way they requested RPs accordingly.

But that doesn't change the fact that there exists a widely-used system that seems to measure somebody's writing ability by the quantity of how much they stuff into a single post. I mean, what greater insult can you throw on an experienced and enthusiastic reader/writer than to call them less than literate? (Semi-literate, I believe would be the correct level here. Illiterate would refer to users that likely use *action* tags and such.)

But look at the title of this thread. It is The Concept of a Good RPer. It is NOT "What do you personally enjoy in a partner." I think it makes you a good RPer if you are able to express your wants clearly and effectively, as you are able to do, GothicFires.

However, I think that long posts does not belong anywhere near this checklist of making a good RPer because it doesn't, and short posts don't make a bad RPer. The OP made a comment that they need practice because their posts aren't long enough and they want to be better.

NO.

Not only because that implies that everybody else who writes short posts needs practice, but because it is bad for you as well. Practice your description. Practice explaining what your character looks like once or twice and how to fit in details at intervals so your partner doesn't forget. It's good to remind one another what the weather's like every now and then.

Practice characterization. Learn about body language and facial expressions so that you can put them to use, and learn how to make your character complex and compelling and interesting. Practice changing them over time and letting them grow and develop as a person would. They might have started out as rather innocent, but you can let them become darker!

Expand your vocabulary. Practice using metaphors, similes, other literary techniques. Practice the five senses. Practice grammar and sentence structure. Practice communication with your partner.

But for the love of writing, please do not practice making your posts longer!

So, GothicFires, at this point I really just want you to understand that I was not insulting you or disrespecting you; nor do I feel that you have insulted or disrespected me. On many of the points you have mentioned, I actually agree with you--but I am discussing something a little different. I do not need you to agree with me. I just don't want there to be any bad feelings arising from a miscommunication.

[GothicFires]

*sighs*

I have seen people that I would consider short posters use the terms like 'literate partners wanted.' It is not only used by 'elitist long posters'.

What makes a good role player is subject to opinion, each individuals opinion. Which is why when I first posted in this thread, near the front, i pointed out that for each type of poster there is a partner.

You say post lengths do not matter in what it takes to be a go role player. I will disagree and where is why.

You can write something in 100 words and have it be concise, well thought out and well said. But it would bore me to tears. 
Those same 100 words might make someone else hear the angels sing.

I took a class in technical writing in collage. I on occasion do technical writing for a software company. When I do this, I write for a 6th grade reading level because that is what I was taught to aim for. Above that and I would miss most of my audience, below that and I would be insulting.

Part of being a good role player is being able to keep your audience. As needs and reading levels are different for each person, not every person can be a good role player for everyone. So while there is a need for people who make short posts there is also a need for those who make long ones.

As for this widely-used system based on length that is used to judge the capability of a writer, I have not seen it. Just because someone says I want my partners to be able to write 'x' long does not mean that you are a bad writer if you cannot write 'x' long, regardless if you feel it means that. It simply means that you are not compatible with that person.

I am sorry for those people who feel left out by those of us who require a certain post length but I assure you it is not the only obstacle to finding partners on this site. There are people on this site that I would love to write with, yet our ons don't line up well enough to come together on an idea. I could complain that those people (and perhaps myself included) aren't flexible enough to be considered a good role player but that would be a fallacy.

We do not all match. That is life.

If you don't want a chance to write with me and if you don't care if I read what you write, then it's ok if you don't practice making your posts longer. But if you want to write with me or you want me to read and enjoy what you write then you are will have to have the ability to write well and long.

[rou]

You say you don't agree with me, but then everything else you say is mostly in line with my thinking as well.

Being a good RPer means being able to understand and work with your partner's expectations. It also means being able to find and negotiate with people that will match your style, and having the ability and guts and patience to turn a player down when you realize the story won't work out, even if you wish it would.

I don't think we should say with an air of broad authority that any post length makes for a good RPer. You would not call me a bad RPer because of the way I write. You would only say that I am a bad match for you.

You recognize that there is a place for short posters and there's a place for long posters and there's a place for people in between or people who are flexible, etc. I'm pretty convinced that we agree.

But we're struggling to communicate. I cannot seem to express my thoughts correctly, and you seem to be picking up messages in my words that I never intended to put out. I never, ever said that the 'literate' method of defining was used by any one group over the other, and nor have I ever, ever said that long posters were elitist. In fact, I did not even say that post length doesn't matter.

What you are discussing in terms of having difficulties finding partners and such is different from what I am talking about. I am not talking about feeling left out because someone doesn't want to RP with me. I do not feel that way and in my posts I am not referring to those people.

I'd like, at this point, to try and steer the conversation back to the 'bigger picture' I was trying to discuss, so from the next paragraph onward, I am talking about something that is no longer a direct part of this debate. I am not trying to prove anyone wrong or change somebody's mind or combat their points... I don't know how to explain what I mean properly, but the response to this next part should not be "I never said" or anything, because the next part is not a response to anything someone has said in particular.



I've been hesitant to use a 'real world' metaphor because in no way do I mean to say that this is an issue as urgent or as widespread as this. But can I use weight as a model for this?

Particularly in the US, we are bombarded with the idea that skinny is better. Skinny is sexy, it's pretty, it's beautiful, it's healthy. Fat is lazy, gross, stupid, incompetent. Fat is ugly.

What is strange about this is that the world is mostly made up (as far as I know) of people who do believe that beauty comes from the inside, or that skinny isn't necessarily good. There are people who actually prefer larger partners. It's generally a good idea to avoid dating people that call you ugly or fat. You'd think that would solve the problem, right?

So why do so many people worry about their weight? Why is it an obsession? Why do we worry about breast size, penis size, and most of all our weight? I can't recall a single time, ever, that anybody has called me fat. I have been told countless times by my friends that I shouldn't lose weight, because I look great. So why should I be insecure about my body?

I'm not saying that people who are insecure are solely victims. It's my responsibility to work on my self-esteem and try to fight off the messages we see in the media about beauty. But there are messages in the media, and there are a lot of people who do point and laugh at people who are larger than their idea of what's attractive, and the people who do that are, in fact, jerks.

I'm not pointing blame at anybody. I'm just asking that we try to stop equating post length with quality. I'm saying that I think there is at atmosphere of insecurity that affects a large amount of RPers, causing them to second-guess themselves even when they make great posts. Not everybody will agree with me about this. Not everybody will even have experienced evidence of this.

That's okay. I have. Between people consistently apologizing to me for their short posts or teasing me for mine, and people using bad writing techniques in an attempt to stretch their posts, I have seen this happen quite a lot, with a number of people. I have had this conversation:

"Hey, why'd your character do so much? I kinda wanted to respond to something he did at the start of the post but then I didn't get the chance."
"Oh... Uh, sorry. I just didn't know what else to put."

My partner felt obligated to make his posts longer, even at the consequence of lessening the quality of his writing and of the RP. Kinda reminds me of how people will sacrifice their health to 'look good.'

Agree with me or disagree with me, but I hope to all the world that you guys actually understand what I'm saying. ;___;

[ladia2287]

That is a very good point roulette. I thank you for that analogy, because it pretty much sums up exactly what I have been saying.

I do not complain about other writers making long posts. I never did, and I never will on that basis alone. I respect writers who prefer this style. I do not respect writers who describe my style as poor quality or 'boring'.

What I complained about was the overall attitude that a lot of members I have interacted with portray. Some of these members actually approached me, knowing full well my request thread states that I generally write one to four paragraphs per post, only to complain that my posts are not long enough for them. I for one do not want to see another member on this site hide into a hole, scared to look up new RPs because they are worried their post length is not enough. Neither of us has said that it is specifically your intention to portray this, and yet you have taken a defensive stance GothicFires, when there is actually no need to.

You may believe us or disbelieve us, but the point roulette and I are trying to make is that such an atmosphere does exist. Many role players do openly associate literacy with post length, and call short-posters illiterate. That doesn't mean I am saying you do, but it's there. Otherwise, why would a newbie ask how they can practise making their posts longer? They shouldn't need to. Being told that short posts are boring is going to have the same psychological effect as magazines filled with ideas for girls to lose weight, even if they are in a healthy weight range. It's going to diminish confidence and lead to people using poor quality methods to make their lengths what they have been told is acceptable. The emphasis needs to be on the quality of the writing, not the length of it. I'm sure you've come across partners who have tried so hard to match your post length that their writing quality and therefore the story quality is severely diminished by the desperate measures they are taking. I have had partners achieve wonderfully big word counts by taking control of my character without my permission.

I am not, and have never, claimed that short posts are good and long posts are bad. I am insulted and offended that such words were put in my mouth. I never even said that your posts were pure fluff. You turn down anyone whose style doesn't match yours. My style requires flexibility. So why wouldn't I have the right to insist that my partners are flexible?

Insinuations such as 'boring' or 'putting more effort in' are harmful and insulting. I have not used such degrading terms and I would be thankful if others could similarly refrain.

[Oniya]

Considering the site for a moment - you're bound to find some people that say bigger is better.  You're also bound to find some people that say size doesn't matter, as long as you know how to use it.  There's bound to be someone on the site that would make you a perfect partner, no matter how long your - post - is. 

[Love And Submission]

Just to barge my way in here. I do notice that pacing is a rather  major problem with large post. Not in the amount of time it takes for someone to write them but in how much they tend to get accomplished. They seem to be heavy on thought and not heavy on action.


This sort of goes against the popular writing phrase "Show , Don't Tell." Most people don't think about the world while making a simple sandwhich or putting their clothes on  in the morning. It's one thing to be introspective , it's another thing to make Sartre look like Dean Koontz.

[Spermonator]

For me a good RPer is someone who can keep my inteterest going and be exicted about our rp.That would mean that the rp partner is more then happy to rp with me.

I don't care about posts leght, really.I hate super long posts.I don't want a fucking novel to be written but enough to get a decent detial in the post.I also hate grammar nazis.

The problem with me is that I get bored veyr easily and that it's a huge issue for me.It's hard to keep my interest very long time.There is a very few people that can do that and they don't roleplay with me anymore.Poeple very often they abandoned my rp's and leave me hanging.I even had rejected after messaging and talking about roleplays with some in that writting style i'm intetrested in.I guess I'm not as good (attractive) enough for roleplaying.

I'm already considering leaving this stie and stop roleplaying.....

[rou]

Almost everybody has that experience, Spermonator. I have never played a story to its conclusion, and have had only a very few that got anywhere. It's not the site. It's not the people, and it's not you. It's just the nature of RP, and it happens everywhere that there is RP.

I would advise against developing a bitterness towards it, because you will scare away potential partners.

[Spermonator]

Maybe you're right roulette, but call me naive if I want a long lasting RP's with lots of sex, passion, romantism and a good story.However I have seen fully completed stories on other site, and eventually the partners start a new rp toegther.I guess then you can see who is willing to make a fully enjoyable story with you that both of you will be not just liking but loving it.Anyway, maybe that's a myth of fidning a really sutiable RP partner for youself to o tones of different roleplays together.

[Oniya]

It's not naive.  It's just a matter of finding the people that you click with.  There are people with completed stories here, as well as people that write multiple times with each other (sometimes they even overlap!)

[Twisted Crow]

This sort of goes against the popular writing phrase "Show , Don't Tell." Most people don't think about the world while making a simple sandwhich or putting their clothes on  in the morning. It's one thing to be introspective , it's another thing to make Sartre look like Dean Koontz.

^ This. Definitely. This is pretty much my feeling about it in a nutshell. :D

[Asa]

Personally, I imagine a good RPer as a combination of everything that people already wrote in here. Good RPers are naturally gifted with a certain empathy which I believe allows them to paint vivid landscapes with their words and evoke emotions through their characters. The higher the empathy, the wider the spectrum of characters they can become. When it comes to choosing words, I also believe there is a "golden middle" between simple and complex. Determining just the right amount of elaborate expressions without impairing the smoothness of the reading process is an admirable skill.

Just my two cents. :-)

[Chris Brady]

Consideration (of your partner(s), swings both ways), communications and acceptance that sometimes, it just may not work as intended.

[consortium11]

A thread that discusses post length and I missed it? Woe is me.

I'm fairly certain I still hold the record for the single longest post on Elliquiy (either in or out of a roleplay), which was so long it broke the character limit and had to be split over two replies. It is just under 15,000 words long and includes just under 82,000 characters.

I should stress that that's not the normal length of my posts and it came about largely because of OOC comments; the person I was writing with and I were exchanging PM's noticing that our posts were starting to get longer and longer and between us came up with the frankly pretty masochistic idea to try to see quite how big we could go (and for once that isn't a euphemism). That said, my posts are on the long side... here's a fairly recent 10,000 word one (with a 1,500 word part 2/flashback attached). Here's a 4,000+ word post... and another one... and another one. So yes, my posts are undoubtedly on the long side; these days even my short posts are likely to be at least a couple of paragraphs long and the shortest one I can recall was still over 300 words.

So, bigger is better right?

Of course not. Whenever this topic comes up I tend to think (and then immediately flush my brain with bleach because) of "Marienbad My Love", the supposed longest novel ever (17,800,000+ words, 109,000,000 characters including spaces, one 4,400,000 letter long made up word and a 3,000,000 word sentence). I can't in good conscious suggest to recommend to anyone that they even try to read an extract; suffice to say it's truly dire and can make your mind melt.

Good writing is good writing, whether it's 15, 150, 1,500 or 15,000 words long). But likewise bad writing is still bad whether it's 15, 150, 1,500 or 15,000 words long. Long writing can be disjointed, waffley, off-topic and unnecessary... but short writing can be basic, crude, lacking in nuisance, unsubtle and evocative. The length of what one writes does not in and of itself impact on the quality of what is written.

But that doesn't mean that the length of posts should be completely ignored either. One person may be able to write brilliantly despite never writing more than 300 words while another might write brilliantly despite never writing less than 1,500 words but that doesn't mean they're going to write brilliantly together. Both are likely to want and expect different things out their partners responses; as a general rule the shorter poster will want them to be more frequent and more focused and punchy while the longer poster is more forgiving of delays and wants more extra-curricular content and activity. To speak for myself, my longer posts tend to feature a lot of memories, flashbacks, tangents, streams of consciousness, NPC's that have as much detail put into them as PC's and various other aspects that aren't strictly relevant to the narrative but do add to a more well-rounded picture of my character. I don't require a partner to do the same... but if they don't enjoy reading that then it's unlikely the game is going to be a happy one.

I also think there's a difference between roleplaying and collaborative writing... and over the years I've been here I'm drifting more and more towards what I consider the collaborative writing aspect, especially in one-on-one games; I'll jump between characters, time-frames and situations fluidly, almost every detail will be discussed with the partner before hand (and posts often sent to them by PM for their opinions before being publicly posted), a more relaxed idea about what characters are "mine" and godmodding, rarely do anything IC without having discussed it OOC and generally treat it as far more of a writing exercise then a traditional roleplay. For me, this (hopefully) means I avoid most of the pitfalls that longer posts can stumble into; the worst long posts tend to be ones where there's very little going on in the narrative (two characters mid-conversation for example) and the writer feels the need to stretch the post out to 1,000 words regardless. In my case, with my collaborative writing hat on, I'd discuss with the partner how the conversation went over PM, draft a post covering the whole conversation, send it to them for their opinion, make any necessary changes and then put up one longer post which covers what would otherwise be 10+ "normal" posts. I'm less interested in where we go (that's been sorted out and arranged by PM's) during a post... I'm interested in how we get there; I favor the descriptive over the narrative.

But again, going back to the previous point, that's dependent on me having a partner who's happy to do that sort of game in that sort of style. Some will be, some won't be and it would be just as unfair for me to force that style of writing onto someone who doesn't want it as it would for someone to force another style onto me. It simply wouldn't be fun.

And I think that last point is the key one.

A lot of us can offer advice on what we think a good roleplayer is but that advice will tend to be either very specific to us or so vague as to be somewhat useless. To take the first point, I could give anyone my "to do list" with regards to being a good roleplayer for me to play with... but that applies only to me and someone else could have completely different ideas of what a good roleplayer is and what they want out of their partners and games. To take the second point, we can all list "good communication" as a key thing... but what do we mean by "good communication"? Some see good communication as multiple back and forth PM's every day, some talking about the roleplay, some just talking about general things. Others see it as fewer PM's and them focused entirely in on the game. Some like partners who communicate their likes and dislikes of posts and offer possible corrections, others find that intrusive, condescending and somewhat insulting. People have different approaches, likes and dislikes.

So I'll go back to that single word.

Fun.

Whatever our approach to writing, however long our posts, regardless of how we like to communicate OOC, everyone came to E to have fun and the best roleplays will be those you and your partner have fun. So to be a good roleplayer all you need to be is to be someone where people playing with you have fun.

That said, there are still a few brief hints I think are general enough to apply to virtually everyone while also being specific enough to be actionable.

• The basic rule; make sure in each post you describe what your character experiences (sees, hears, touches etc), what they think/feel about what they've experienced and what they then do. This can be multiple paragraphs or a single sentence ("Character A jumped back alarmed and gesticulated angrily as the car sped past him")
• Respond to everything you can from your partners posts. There's little more dispiriting then describing something to occurs only to have the partner skip it completely. The standard mistake here is that one partner doesn't describe what their character felt during the period the other partner dealt with in their previous post but instead continues on from after it.
• Take on some responsibility for driving the plot/narrative forward, either through PM's or in the story threads directly. While more common in D/S style roleplays it can crop up anywhere, where one partner is constantly forced to drive the story and narrative forward while coming up with new creative ideas. It's mentally exhausting so be willing to pick up the slack and puts your own ideas into place.

But again, the most important; have fun yourself and try to make sure your partner is also having fun.



Something that was mentioned here but is a little off the main topic is the "Literate Partner" requirement in either request threads or O&O's and it referring to post length.

Personally I hate it.

I have a note in my O&O's about post length which I think if fair enough; I write long posts as a rule and if someone isn't happy with that we're unlikely to be a good fit. But there's nothing about how long a post is that determines whether it's literate or not. Hemingway... a man considered a literary genius... wrote a story in six words and his brilliant "Old Man and the Sea" is only 27,000 words or so... not even twice as long as the post I linked to at the start of this reply. So to begin with it's the wrong use of the term; being literate is being able to read and write, not read and write in long prose. In fact, using it in that way is a display of illiteracy. Beyond that though, it's also insulting to those who are by implication being called illiterate because they post short replies.

Moreover, whenever I see such wording and then notice a typo or even simply something where I think a phrase it put together clumsily it always gets my hackles up in a sort of "how dare you say you only write with literate people and then make this basic mistake!" way. I admit that's not entirely fair of me, but when you see posts like that it's hard not to rise to it.

I also occasionally get a small chuckle when I see people put up that they do long posts and only want people who will do the same... and then I go through their post history and see that most of their posts are what I'd consider pretty short.

That said... and I'm thinking out loud here... that could be a worrying trend. Are people putting up things like that in their O&O's and request threads not because they actually write long posts but because they think they're expected to say that or that it makes them look like better roleplayers if they say it? I can't recall anywhere near as many people saying "My replies are generally a few sentences and occasionally a whole paragraph" as I can saying "My posts are normally a few paragraphs and occasionally 1,000+ words", even if they're not. I'd hate to think that people feel the need to pretend they favour long posts and replies when it reality they'd be happier with shorter ones.

[Aislinn]

I saw the topic of this thread and decided to jump in. I've read a couple of replies but mostly not because I don't want what others say to influence what I write.

Well that....and I'm just plain tired and don't want to read four pages of posts....so forgive me?  :'(

What makes someone a 'good' role play writer will be open to interpretation to each person. Each writer has criteria that they like to see in a partner. A lot of it is based on the type of skills that the original person possesses. I myself am a technical writer. I like details and I have to impart many of those in my writing in a logical manner to satisfy my wonderful OCD. I can write a battle scene easily with concepts and directions to boot. What I -can't- do....is layer everything in overly flowery words. I can't spend an entire paragraph describing a sunset....or a lake.

However, I find I'm attracted to those people that -can-.

Communication is essential....as is the ability to give me something to work with. I think that this is where the conversation about post length comes in. I'm one of those types that like the longer, fuller posts....but if a writer can give me something to work with in a shorter piece, it's perfectly fine. I've also had partners (not E.....other sites) that have written huge posts but given me nothing to work with. You have to be able to give your writing partner something to work off of.

Creativity is always welcome...but I've noticed that it presents itself in different ways. I can't come up with main ideas for stories to save my life. It's very rare for me to be able to do that. But give me an idea and I can flesh it out all day long. Different people are creative in different ways.

I think that's it for the moment....or at least nothing else is springing to mind!

;D

[TwoHundredTabs]

Not to be a horrible necromancer (the thread is still on the first page), but I want to add to these awesome responses, for anyone else who drops by the topic later on as I have.

The most fundamental thing, I think, is fitting with your partner - that you find a wavelength for the length, style, depth/descriptiveness, and content that both of you are excited about. That's probably also the most difficult thing, and the reason why so many partnerships die quickly.

Outside of that and what so many people have touched on, I'm thrilled when a partner is creative with the presentation of their ideas or the way our writing interacts. I've played with countless numbers of people who wrote (A) seven or more strong paragraphs with a good description-to-content balance, (B) two or three paragraph responses that and highlighted the key elements we were interested in, and (C) two to seven sentence replies that kept things moving quickly while striking the right notes. What I've seen little of are alternate forms of presentation - like dialogue-heavy posts 30 lines long but with less writing than a few paragraphs, that leave gaps of time between descriptions (leaving me free to construct my own timeline, or requesting that I describe certain things as happening during those gaps), posts that trail off mid-sentence to emphasize the nature of a shared 3rd person authorship of a story, or real-time requests or responses mid-writing via time-synced services like Google Docs or PiratePad.

If I were to score partners on a rating system (1 = Intolerable, 5 = Good, 10 = Mind-blowing), it would probably include the following at 1 point value each:

- Writes with spelling, word choice, and punctuation that is at least equivalent to what a professor would expect from an "A" student for the final exercise of a college's introductory creative writing class (The bar isn't that high, but many roleplay ads I've seen wouldn't measure up.)

- Reflects on both their and my desires and abilities before committing to an idea - so that we're both clear about what we want, how we'll interact, and what expectations (e.g. time) we have

- Stays in contact outside of the game, so that we're on the same page about interests, the creative process, motivation levels, and outside circumstances

- Writes in a way that doesn't rely on me to drive the roleplay forward (e.g. doesn't rephrase my post; gives me new content)

- Is writing from the perspective of a partner, not thinking only of their own enjoyment (such that I'm not essentially a video game that's supposed to learn their desires and craft the perfect NPC world for them)

- In each post, either (for long posts) has a good balance between description and pace [instead of describing unimportant things, spending so much text on description that almost nothing happens, or writing so many actions that time rushes along], or (for short posts) communicates things that are attention-grabbing (e.g. emotions, actions, key details) or inviting/informative (e.g. hinting at what they want to happen in my response) [instead of unimportant/filler details, dialogue, etc.]

- Either (for scene-driven writing) creates captivating scenes that seamlessly flow into each other, (for story-driven writing) creates compact arcs that move quickly enough to stimulate interest in what happens next or make it easy to recall the whole story, or (for character-driven writing) creates a character(s) that is either fleshed-out emotionally/psychologically or is entertaining/alluring

- Collaborates in more than just one writing style (e.g. sometimes doing trades of paragraph posts, sometimes doing dialogue-heavy posts, sometimes doing real-time collaboration, sometimes doing trades of flash fiction)

-  Collaborates on more than just one idea (e.g. occasionally writing flash fiction or doing chat-roleplay sessions about something other than our post-by-post scenario [or about an alternate path/universe our idea could have taken/been set in], concurrently writing two or more post-by-post scenarios together - which we add to when we feel inspired [instead of focusing on one scenario and wanting a steady time-to-posts ratio])

- Has nearly identical interests to my own (e.g. themes, character concepts, scene ideas, kinks)

[Parker]

A great thread, I thought I'd add my own two pennies as well.

I agree with much of the above - A good RPer is creative, skilled at showing not telling, has empathy for all participating in the story, engages the senses, has a similar idea of pacing and flow as their partner, communicates outside the story, and is matched ( either naturally or with effort ) in their partner's style of investment and intimacy.

That's a lot. Also, I'm not sure it's all "an opinion." I think the better the RPer, the more they're going to be aware and skilled at implementing all of that above. Maybe it's more a spectrum - if you are pretty proficient with most of the above, I can't imagine where you'd have a positive opinion of someone as an RPer if they were only skilled at a few; someone totally new could see a player who had only a few of the above skills but was great at one or two of them as the Best RPer Evar.

As to post size...   yea, I'm with the "it mostly doesn't matter" crowd. To think that you're going to enforce some sort of quality with length is like saying all high school essays over 10 pages are quality because they're 10 pages. I'm pretty sure this isn't true. You'll get crap in 10 pages, and gold in two paragraphs; it depends on where you look.

What hasn't been mentioned so far ( unless I missed it? Ugh ) are these two aspects of the Good RPer: Being a giving partner and having a sense of self.

In the willingness to communicate and write great stuff there also has to be an underlying desire to hold up your end, or more, to give. To adjust, to help, to suggest. If a player can do all the other stuff we've talked about amazingly well but is not giving, that is they simply show up and expect the other person to perform and don't share at all by way of compliments, help in creating, positive critiques, or just voicing an opinion... I'm not sure they're a good RPer.

And a sense of self is huge, for me. Have an idea of what you like and don't like. For me a few of the hallmarks of a good RPer are an eye catching avatar, a locatable O/O list, a story suggestion thread, and things like that. Sharing this stuff is a big deal and helps me tell more easily than if I interview everyone I ever meet here what they like. Bare bones or nonexistent markers like this are not helpful at all, and to me kind of suggest you don't know what you like or don't like, or don't care enough ( investment ) about all of this to write it out for people looking.

[TwoHundredTabs]

My personal experiences have been varied, but I've sometimes seen an avatar that referenced something I thought to be of particularly high quality and contacted said person with the thought that we'd have similar tastes. However, they'd taken the image from someone else's avatar space, or didn't know what it referenced. Other times, I'd thought an avatar showed a lot of creativity or thought, and hoped that it was an indication of the same for their writing. Again, that turned out not to be the case many times.

Given my experiences, I find it interesting and confusing that you added "eye catching avatar" to the list of important things, Parker. Could you explain what you mean by "eye catching", and why you feel it's a hallmark of a good roleplayer?


I wonder how many other people think that avatar choice is important.

(Edited for better wording.)

[Parker]

For me it all seems to work in constellation - a person can be an amazing RPer with a boring or confusing or non-yummy avatar, but it seems for me that's not often the case. It's one thing among many, and not by itself definitive. But in some ways the av you pick is a little like the outfit you wear, or how you do up your space in a virtual sense. It's part of your presentation, and it seems to me that people who take care here are usually great role players.


I've seen exceptions, but not a lot. And I'm not really talking about "hotness" here, as that's pretty individual.

[TwoHundredTabs]

For me it all seems to work in constellation - a person can be an amazing RPer with a boring or confusing or non-yummy avatar, but it seems for me that's not often the case. It's one thing among many, and not by itself definitive. But in some ways the av you pick is a little like the outfit you wear, or how you do up your space in a virtual sense. It's part of your presentation, and it seems to me that people who take care here are usually great role players.


I've seen exceptions, but not a lot. And I'm not really talking about "hotness" here, as that's pretty individual.

So, I'm curious. I don't plan on using an avatar (and I have them turned off in my settings). Do you think that would lead you to suspect that I'm not as strong of a player as others?

[Monkeys Razor]

I'm new here but not to RP.

Anyway, what makes a good Role Player to me is;

* Commitment - You have agreed to RP with someone, don't make them go through the whole set up process and then after they have written a solid set up post - you never respond or bale out after a couple of posts. If you aren't sure about your availability, or if you are new to RP and aren't sure about doing a huge Plot heavy RP then let your partner know, maybe opt for a one shot quickie.

* Honesty - This ties in with Commitment above, if you are engaged in a RP and you are not sure about it, don't just drop out, ask some questions, make suggestions, talk about what the problem is, you might be able to overcome it.

* Read your partners posts and messages! - Sounds obvious right? I do also realize sometimes things get missed or misread that is fine. What I am talking about is a situation I had on another site, we set up this plot and scenario it was quite extreme, they were on board we start playing and then they say they want something different, they don't like this part even though they agreed to it, so did they read it, miss it during the set up stage?

I have also had posts misread to the point of my partner changing the whole era it was set in!

* Be Responsive - Respond a little to what your partner wrote, especially if their character is talking to YC, it is rather cold to read a post that has no reference at all to what I have just written.

* Direction, Pacing & Story - A pairing or situation isn't always enough, what is the story? I hate it when a RP gets bogged down in day to day stuff eg: Mary and Jim sat and ate dinner, they discussed the days events and what they would do on the weekend, then they washed up. Too much of that is just a brain drain on me, keep the story going, have a direction that the whole thing is headed in, when I see requests that are just a list of pairings I just think "and then what?"

* Motivation/Psychology/Depth - I get bored with anything where characters are doing something for no reason, this especially goes for smut, it's not enough for me that 2 people have sex, especially if it is taboo or different in some way. I want to know what has driven them to this point, what they feel and think etc

I like to know how YC feels about doing what they are doing, first time doing porn or stripping? Great tell me how it feels, how they prepare, what it feels like afterwards etc. 

* Creativity - I love taking ordinary scenarios and making them twisted or taking cliches and looking at them from different perspectives, it doesn't really matter what you want to explore just make it different in some way, be creative.

* Realism - If you are playing a 40 something housewife than don't show me a photo or describe a woman in her late 20's!! This goes the same for nerdy girls etc etc Don't show me the barbie bimbo if your character is not this. Also if we are doing a period piece don't bring in modern standards and morality, if we are going to act and speak like we are in 2014 and trapped in a theme park then what is the point. Also if your character is shy then perhaps it is unlikely she takes to stripping like a fish to water??? Just saying.

* Motivations - Understanding that people have a range of emotions and motivations therefore so do characters, they aren't just evil or good, they run the gamut and therefore if you want believable characters than they have depth and variation.

* Being adaptable - we could plan a RP all the way through but when we start writing depending on how MC responds to what YC character says (or what you write), MC could respond differently to how we spoke, or it might bring out various traits in him, the story might change a little.

* Versatility - Being open to new ideas, for me this means when someone contacts me or I contact them and have some suggestions or input to the RP they have, being open to other people's ideas and how they might bring new and different angles to your story. If you want to play it out precisely as you envision it than just write a story.

* Quality over Quantity - I have played RP's where my partner and I have written 7 plus paragraphs, to be honest a lot of it was filler, describing things that don't matter, repeating or rehashing things the previous poster have already written, creating sub plots or extra story just to fill space. It also felt like a lot of work!! I am happy with a couple of paragraphs, often shorter posts have an immediacy to them that longer ones don't have, so yes it matters what you write, not how much you write.

* Knowing when detail matters - For example, Does a room have to be described? If it matters for some reason then fine, but if it is just filler than why bother?

[Mosaic]

As someone new to RP I really enjoyed reading the advice here. Thanks.

[Elysian Radiance]

I'm sure all of this has been said before but what the hell.

Creativity.
Unless we've decided to do some cookie cutter RP, I want us to be able to create a world that we can immerse ourselves in.

Writing ability.
Whisk me away and make me swoon with your words. Take my breath away and make me sit on the edge of my seat with anticipation.

Detail.
I know that it's just a garden, but I want to know what I see, what I smell, how the flowers feel in my hands.

Balance.
Being able to keep everything in balance. Too much of anything is a bad thing; that can include sex, details, dialogue.

The ability to mesh.
To me, I feel like I write better with people that I mesh with, not just IC but OOC as well.

Commitment.
I know that we all have lives and shit happens. I get it, more than most people. But if something comes up, just drop a line.

Variety.
When I write, I try to avoid using the same descriptor word twice in a paragraph; the thesaurus is my very best friend. It feel like it makes the post boring and lacking substance to use the same words repeatedly, and for that matter, the same actions.

[Anteros Vox]

Someone who engages in the story rather then be just another reaction in it. Someone who takes it further along keeping it from being stale or ending too soon. Someone who knows how to throw in the drama, the horror, the sex, the pain, the excitement, the humor, and the point of a plot.

[Twisted Crow]

Balance between detail and getting to the point. Painting imagery without making it seem so still with static description. It's nice to know that the wind is blowing. Is it necessarily important to know which direction? Sometimes it is... sometimes it isn't.

Oh, by the way... a happy birthday to the topic's original poster! Infinitiveangie, I remember when you helped ease the transition for me when I was new here. Hope you are doing well... where ever you might be lately. :-)

[Euron Greyjoy]

Someone who challenges you making you want to improve your writing.

[Anteros Vox]

Someone who challenges you making you want to improve your writing.

I agree with that.

[greenpolicebox]

Very late to the party on this, having only just registered, but I enjoyed looking through some of the answers posted.

For me personally, the best RP relationships seem to come when the RPers go into things with a mindset to both explore and adapt.  It can often take a little bit of back and forth to find a groove, but a good RP partner will maintain their own writing identity within the feel of the world you are both building together.  Ideally, they should see what you respond to, and run with that in new and interesting ways.  The best feeling in the world is being so in step with an RP partner that your fingers can hardly keep pace as your mind sprints ahead with what happens next.

I also very much enjoy when they pay attention, and sprinkle in details and quirks that call back to the earlier days of the RP.  Inside jokes unique to our RP are always phenomenal. 

I guess I should add that most of my favorite RP experiences were more long term, so I'm a bit biased as to what I like in an RPer.