Common Errors in the English Language

Started by Vekseid, October 21, 2010, 08:40:20 PM

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Vekseid


Haipeabyss

This is awesome!
Anything that can help my English is appreciated since is not my native language!

Lilias

Text version saved. I'm going to make a PDF of it and store it on my Kindle, next to the pre-loaded OED.
To go in the dark with a light is to know the light.
To know the dark, go dark. Go without sight,
and find that the dark, too, blooms and sings,
and is traveled by dark feet and dark wings.
~Wendell Berry

Double Os <> Double As (updated Feb 20) <> The Hoard <> 50 Tales 2024 <> The Lab <> ELLUIKI

DudelRok

#3
Wish-washy

This would help if writing an essay paper, or something, as "formal writing" doesn't typically apply to anything you'll see on E as that's all fiction in nature. So I'm kinda meh?

Although it IS my go-to for flip flopping words and checking actually common grammar mistakes quite a few of the rules don't really apply, anymore -if ever.

Example: I do life/live a lot but not on purpose. Is usually a typo and I just don't re-read to catch it. XD

I AM THE RETURN!

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HockeyGod

Woot! I love this. I will fully admit to one bane of my existence...

Complement/Compliment

My confession...I'm so bad at remembering which is which that I use the word "kudos" instead.  :o

The other one that is slightly annoying is knew/new. Now these I completely know the difference, but sometimes I type so fast that it just gets placed incorrectly.

For those that also suffer from the bane...

QuoteOriginally these two spellings were used interchangeably, but they have come to be distinguished from each other in modern times. Most of the time the word people intend is “compliment": nice things said about someone ("She paid me the compliment of admiring the way I shined my shoes.”). “Complement,” much less common, has a number of meanings associated with matching or completing. Complements supplement each other, each adding something the others lack, so we can say that “Alice’s love for entertaining and Mike’s love for washing dishes complement each other.” Remember, if you’re not making nice to someone, the word is “complement.”


A complement can also be the full number of something needed to make it complete: “my computer has a full complement of video-editing programs.” If it is preceded by “full” the word you want is almost certainly “complement.”

mystictiger

I compliment you on this link, and I share Alxnjsh's issue.

One thing that I also wish was addressed was the use of 'however'.

When used at the start of a sentence and not followed by a comma, it is my understanding that it means 'no matter how much' - e.g. However many times this is explained to me, I always get it wrong. When used in the middle of a sentence, however, it illustrates a diference. Is this correct?
Want a system game? I got system games!

Will

Either could still be used at any point in the sentence.  You can only make the distinction by context.
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Host of Seraphim

Tentatively trying to get back into RPing...

:: O/O :: A/A (updated 3/2 -- please read) ::

Sashira

I've been a professional copy editor, and there was one that I was getting wrong for years!

AFFECT: Verb
EFFECT: Noun

It has nothing to do with the different meaning of "effected" vs. "affected", but instead has to do with parts of speech. So you will affect the outcome of something, to create an effect.

Will

Quote from: Host of Seraphim on October 23, 2010, 02:32:10 AM
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/care.html

This is my pet peeve!

OMG!  Thank you.  That seriously drives me crazy.
Quote from: Sashira on October 23, 2010, 02:35:28 AM
I've been a professional copy editor, and there was one that I was getting wrong for years!

AFFECT: Verb
EFFECT: Noun

It has nothing to do with the different meaning of "effected" vs. "affected", but instead has to do with parts of speech. So you will affect the outcome of something, to create an effect.

I have seen people use effect as a verb, as in to create or bring about a thing.  It's a slightly different meaning from affect, so it may be appropriate, I dunno.
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Oniya

To further confound things, there is the psychological term 'affect' (pronounced with the stress on the first syllable).  Usage:  The defendant had a flat affect, due to his mental illness.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

DudelRok


I AM THE RETURN!

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Remiel

Quote from: Host of Seraphim on October 23, 2010, 02:32:10 AM
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/care.html

This is my pet peeve!

I've caught myself doing this from time to time.  But then I think, "but wait! If I could care less, then that means I do care after all, and that isn't what I meant to say."

Host of Seraphim

#13
Quote from: Remiel on October 25, 2010, 02:10:00 PM
I've caught myself doing this from time to time.  But then I think, "but wait! If I could care less, then that means I do care after all, and that isn't what I meant to say."

I think this helps most people:

Tentatively trying to get back into RPing...

:: O/O :: A/A (updated 3/2 -- please read) ::

Will

Unfortunately, I had a history teacher who used the phrase incorrectly, and often at that.  It took a lot of self-control to keep from correcting her.  She had a short temper. :(
If you can heal the symptoms, but not affect the cause
It's like trying to heal a gunshot wound with gauze

One day, I will find the right words, and they will be simple.
- Jack Kerouac

Star Safyre

Quote from: Vekseid on October 21, 2010, 08:40:20 PM
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html

Lots of nifty little tidbits here for people to polish their writing.

I need to work this into my sig or something.  This must be seen!
My heaven is to be with him always.
|/| O/O's / Plots / tumblr / A/A's |/|
And I am a writer, writer of fictions
I am the heart that you call home
And I've written pages upon pages
Trying to rid you from my bones

Host of Seraphim

#16
Quote from: Will on October 25, 2010, 04:50:08 PM
Unfortunately, I had a history teacher who used the phrase incorrectly, and often at that.  It took a lot of self-control to keep from correcting her.  She had a short temper. :(

'Bout a week ago, I went to a new dentist. During the get-to-know-you chit-chat he said that he "could care less" about something and I was thiiiiiis close to saying "Okay okay YOU ARE NOT PUTTING YOUR HANDS IN MY MOUTH."
Tentatively trying to get back into RPing...

:: O/O :: A/A (updated 3/2 -- please read) ::

Paradox

I have lived and breathed that site since discovering it two and a half years ago, so I'm glad to see it's making the rounds.


"More than ever, the creation of the ridiculous is almost impossible because of the competition it receives from reality."-Robert A. Baker

mystictiger

#18
Urgh. This one annoyed me.

QuoteInterestingly, the Scots themselves often use the “S” pronunciation, notably in referring to the Glasgow soccer team, the “Celtic Football Club.”

Only when referring to the football club (and the Oban Celtic Shinty club too!), and at no other time.

Both the S and K sound are 'valid'. The S comes from the French pronunciation ('celtique') while the K comes from the Greek (Keltoi, those that hide) and Latin (Celticus I suspect).  Clearly demonstrates that we Scots are the true heirs of the Roman Empire! Ahem.

The other expanation is that they're Glaswegian, and therefore cannae tak proper, ye ken? ;)

This somes up the issue quite well.
Want a system game? I got system games!

Oniya

Quote from: mystictiger on October 27, 2010, 02:31:45 PM
Urgh. This one annoyed me.

Only when referring to the football club (and the Oban Celtic Shinty club too!), and at no other time.

And that Boston basketball team.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

mystictiger

Basketball doesn't really play a major part of life in Scotland. Unless, maybe, if you could fill the basketball with lard and then deep fry it...

What annoyed me was the reference to Scottish practice.
Want a system game? I got system games!

DudelRok

Quote from: mystictiger on October 27, 2010, 02:31:45 PM
Urgh. This one annoyed me.

Both the S and K sound are 'valid'.

My main issue with a majority of "common English grammar mix-ups" is that a majority of times both are perfectly valid, depend on cultural interference (mostly notable American/British) or...

Quote from: Will on October 22, 2010, 05:33:39 PM
Either could still be used at any point in the sentence.  You can only make the distinction by context.

..depend on context.

Not to mention you can use certain things ironically and be grammatically incorrect.

Quote from: DudelRok on October 23, 2010, 10:53:38 PM
I could care less; not much less, mind you. :p

English irks a nerve, man. I need to learn something more simple.... like Mandarin Chinese. Semi-rant bleed over from another forum where everyone there is totally oblivious to everything.

Apologies.

I AM THE RETURN!

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Vandren

Quote from: mystictiger on October 22, 2010, 10:58:26 AMWhen used at the start of a sentence and not followed by a comma, it is my understanding that it means 'no matter how much' - e.g. However many times this is explained to me, I always get it wrong. When used in the middle of a sentence, however, it illustrates a diference. Is this correct?

Yep, that is indeed correct.  The same is true if the "however" is set off with a comma at the beginning of a sentence.  However, English is a difficult language in that nearly every rule has an ungodly amount of exceptions, so few rules are 100% hard and fast.  :)

Personally, the one that's driven me the most insane on E. is "who" v. "whom".  People think these words can be indiscriminately interchanged . . . they can't! 

Who = subject
Whom = object (direct or indirect)

-Dr. Van, PhD (English)
Composition Instructor
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Star Safyre

Quote from: Vandren on November 07, 2010, 02:07:45 PM

Who = subject
Whom = object (direct or indirect)

I teach my students this:

Who?  He.  Whom?  Him.


It's fun to get them chanting it loudly.  My neighboring teaching was wondering why I was teaching them about owls.   XD
My heaven is to be with him always.
|/| O/O's / Plots / tumblr / A/A's |/|
And I am a writer, writer of fictions
I am the heart that you call home
And I've written pages upon pages
Trying to rid you from my bones

Oniya

Wouldn't owls be 'To who, to who' - which is incorrect?  ;D
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Vandren

The easy way I remember it (and tell my students) is via music:

"Who Are You?" (The Who)
"For Whom the Bell Tolls" (Metallica, via Hemmingway)
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Acinonyx

I wonder whether that's a mistake (under "koala bear"):

QuoteA koala is not a bear. People who know their marsupials refer to them simply as “koalas.” Recent research, however, indicates that pandas are related to other bears.

(Do I know my marsupials or do I know they are marsupials?)
They probably wrote it the way they meant it, but it did make me do a double take for a second.

It's an interesting resource, though. As a non-native speaker of English, but a lover of the language, I could probably browse this all day.
Don't mind me, I'm the kind of person who has stuff like this.

Oniya

- If you figuratively climb the walls, you are agitated/frustrated/crazy. If you literally climb the walls, you are Spiderman.

I find this incredibly funny. 
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17


Muninn

Quote from: Acinonyx on November 09, 2010, 06:56:07 AM
Alot/a lot

But... but I love the Alot!

You are brilliant for posting that here!  ;D <3

I care about this Alot!

Acinonyx

Quote from: Muninn on November 09, 2010, 07:45:08 AM
You are brilliant for posting that here!  ;D <3

I care about this Alot!


The brilliance is yours since you so recently pointed me at this. :) Thanks FSM Alot.

blazingboy121

Please clarify me . What part of speech is the word 'mobile' ? Am not talking about the instrument but in general . Thanks .

Neroon

An adjective or noun, depending on usage.  The definition is here.
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes

My yeas and nays     Grovelling Apologies     Wiki
Often confused for some guy

blazingboy121

Quote from: Neroon on November 14, 2010, 05:50:14 AM
An adjective or noun, depending on usage.  The definition is here.

Thanks Neroon , had an argument with a friend , me calling it adjective and him caling it adverb . Thanks for the clarification

Oniya

The quick way to distinguish is that adjectives modify nouns (a mobile home; the patient is mobile) and adverbs modify verbs ('He ran quickly.'; 'We went early.'; 'We're eating now.').  It gets a little fuzzy when you have modifiers acting on modifiers, but if you plug the word into a simple sentence, you should be able to drop it down to one of those two situations.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

blazingboy121

Quote from: Oniya on November 14, 2010, 10:55:57 AM
The quick way to distinguish is that adjectives modify nouns (a mobile home; the patient is mobile) and adverbs modify verbs ('He ran quickly.'; 'We went early.'; 'We're eating now.').  It gets a little fuzzy when you have modifiers acting on modifiers, but if you plug the word into a simple sentence, you should be able to drop it down to one of those two situations.

Thanks , Oniya . That would help .

Cherry Bloodrayne

Quote from: DudelRok on October 22, 2010, 07:52:48 AM
Wish-washy

This would help if writing an essay paper, or something, as "formal writing" doesn't typically apply to anything you'll see on E as that's all fiction in nature. So I'm kinda meh?

Although it IS my go-to for flip flopping words and checking actually common grammar mistakes quite a few of the rules don't really apply, anymore -if ever.

Example: I do life/live a lot but not on purpose. Is usually a typo and I just don't re-read to catch it. XD

But still, you should write correctly no matter if it is an essay paper or not.

Thanks for the list

Vandren

Besides which, fiction is formal writing.  As are journalistic writing, magazine writing, and business/technical writing.  They're just different styles.

Informal writing would be "texting", grocery lists, some e-mail (non-business/professional related), and the like.
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Oniya

I might say fiction is 'semi-formal'.  Fiction gives you the license to break some of the rules, such as using a sentence fragment for emphasis, and sometimes spelling, particularly if it's for dialectical emphasis.  (Let's face it, there's no easier way to get across the incomprehensibility of Glaswegian.)

It's not an excuse to be sloppy, though.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Star Safyre

Fiction is formal but also is stylistic.  Just like high fashion designers might create avantgarde wedding gowns that might not function in an actual formal setting, such designs are still considered formal wear.
My heaven is to be with him always.
|/| O/O's / Plots / tumblr / A/A's |/|
And I am a writer, writer of fictions
I am the heart that you call home
And I've written pages upon pages
Trying to rid you from my bones

Costnian

The English language is one of my favorite topics, though I confess to being a bit sloppy in my usage of same.  When I overhear someone grumbling that everyone should “speak English” I have a burning urge to say “Ic sprecan Englisce”, or something like that just to observe the reaction.  It is a unique language, constantly changing, sometimes very slowly and sometimes very rapidly.  I read somewhere that Shakespeare would have been a complete dud had he been born fifty years earlier or fifty years later.  His power was in his ability to exploit some rather profound changes occurring in the language during his time to produce extraordinary puns of context and usage.

Vandren

Quote from: Star Sapphire on November 16, 2010, 02:08:16 PM
Fiction is formal but also is stylistic.  Just like high fashion designers might create avantgarde wedding gowns that might not function in an actual formal setting, such designs are still considered formal wear.

Pretty much my point.

@Oniya -- There are always exceptions for verisimilitude, especially in dialect.  Big fan of Mark Twain here, with the 8-12 dialects he uses in Huck Finn.  :)
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Oniya

I was actually thinking of James Herriot (All Creatures Great and Small) and Brian Jacques, myself. :)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Star Safyre

And I was thinking of A Clockwork Orange.
My heaven is to be with him always.
|/| O/O's / Plots / tumblr / A/A's |/|
And I am a writer, writer of fictions
I am the heart that you call home
And I've written pages upon pages
Trying to rid you from my bones

DudelRok

Quote from: Costnian on November 16, 2010, 02:44:50 PMI read somewhere that Shakespeare would have been a complete dud had he been born fifty years earlier or fifty years later.  His power was in his ability to exploit some rather profound changes occurring in the language during his time to produce extraordinary puns of context and usage.

That, my friend, is called "Using the laymen tongue" and it is what EVERY writer should do if they wish to hold an audience for more than 15 seconds. Generally speaking, I might also add that all "The Great Authors" would be, by today's standards, breaking most (if not all) grammatical and spelling rules, especially Shakespeare.

...and because of societies current settings, simplicity and rule breaking are key. Just check out what is popular and what sells, things that not only break typical rules but are called "literary abortions" by other writers. I bring up both Harry Potter and Twilight, picture perfect books on what not to do in accordance to the "rules" that have been arbitrarily set by other authors, and yet they are so popular.

Quote from: Vandren on November 16, 2010, 07:20:12 AMBesides which, fiction is formal writing.  As are journalistic writing, magazine writing, and business/technical writing.  They're just different styles.

Informal writing would be "texting", grocery lists, some e-mail (non-business/professional related), and the like.

Texting, I will give you as this is a technology that was created after the rules of writing wee created. However, grocery lists and e-mail (even the personal type as they are still "letters") all have a form and order that go to them. If one was to take a business class in the last couple of years, this would be known. While most people might reject the formality of it, this is another story.

Also, forum post RPing is not formal writing in any context (and I actually find it semi-destructive to writing as a whole but that's another story). Now I'll give you, to a point, fiction on a general scale but the rules of fiction first state: "There are no rules." This is also not mentioning what something might be called vs what it actually is.

"Formal writing" has set in place rules and a formula to follow, like essays and letters. There are formal forms OF FICTION... but fiction is not, generally, a form of formal writing. However, we might be arguing semantics about "formal" vs "practical" in some form or another.

One should follow the simple grammatical and spelling guidelines so that their reader is not confused... but this generally doesn't matter outside of trying to avoid being outright confusing.

I could "live/life" & "there/their" the rest of my live (:p) and it would not affect the writing piece as a solid entity. Not to mention, that's what editors are for... and most things are based on context.

Quote from: Oniya on November 09, 2010, 01:59:58 AM
- If you figuratively climb the walls, you are agitated/frustrated/crazy. If you literally climb the walls, you are Spiderman.

I find this incredibly funny. 

Unless one is using this phrase idiomatically speaking, or in terms of speech by character, OR to imply the usage of the word "literally" in terms of the absurd (AKA: Comedy).

Besides, this is an improper verbal use rather than a written one. The only person I know to even use the word "literally," in any context, is myself. XD

Quote from: Oniya on November 16, 2010, 07:09:42 PM
I was actually thinking of James Herriot (All Creatures Great and Small) and Brian Jacques, myself. :)

Mole speech can be brutal if one is not used to it. XD

Quote from: Costnian on November 16, 2010, 02:44:50 PMIt is a unique language, constantly changing, sometimes very slowly and sometimes very rapidly.

Which has rules that simply no longer apply to it.

You are all aware that, unless writing posts as if writing a section of chapter from a story (which would be technically not correct anyway), you must head and date forum posts as if writing a letter, yes? Now, there are things set into place that help us with that... like Subject portion of reply (Re:), timestamps and our signatures at the bottom but this is not how they are generally used (or they are ignored) AND they are placed informally on the site.

...but, like I've said, these rules don't generally apply much, if at all, anymore.

I AM THE RETURN!

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Vandren

#45
Quote from: DudelRok on December 16, 2010, 02:24:59 PMthings that not only break typical rules but are called "literary abortions" by other writers. I bring up both Harry Potter and Twilight, picture perfect books on what not to do in accordance to the "rules" that have been arbitrarily set by other authors, and yet they are so popular.

Two problems with this: 1) HP is not considered a "literary abortion" (and I've been conducting scholarly study of the series for several years now) and 2) most of the "rules" in writing are not arbitrary (grammar, spelling, etc.).

As for the example of Shakespeare and "The Great Authors" (of the pre-19th century) . . . they didn't break grammatical and spelling rules.  Neither grammar nor spelling settled down in the English language until the mid-19th and late-20th centuries respectively, therefore there was nothing to break.  Of course, it would help to have a strong background in Middle English and Renaissance literature/history to figure that out (Old English, on the other hand, had strong grammatical rules, but no hard and fast method of spelling).

QuoteTexting, I will give you as this is a technology that was created after the rules of writing wee created. However, grocery lists and e-mail (even the personal type as they are still "letters") all have a form and order that go to them. If one was to take a business class in the last couple of years, this would be known. While most people might reject the formality of it, this is another story.

Nope.  Not really.  (And I've taught university-level business writing several times in the last decade, mostly against my will, after being a business/tech writer for a NASA contractor many years ago.)  Grocery lists are simply notes and reminders written by one person for themselves, which makes them informal writing (similar to brainstorming as a pre-writing activity, which is itself informal).  Personal e-mails are also informal in many senses of the term.  Business e-mails are different, and relatively formal, depending on their use and form.

Quote"Formal writing" has set in place rules and a formula to follow, like essays and letters. There are formal forms OF FICTION... but fiction is not, generally, a form of formal writing. However, we might be arguing semantics about "formal" vs "practical" in some form or another.

Sorry, fiction is formal writing regardless of the form it takes.  It's a different style, as compared to an essay or legal document, but it is still formal writing.  And we're not arguing semantics here, nor "formal" v. "practical", sorry.

However, there is a definitional issue.  You seem to be operating under the idea that formal = has rules while informal = has no rules.  This is a major misconception when it comes to, well the word itself, but specifically its use in writing.  In writing, formal is defined as "A quality of language created by word choice and sentence structure and ranging from the very formal (or ceremonial) to the familiar" (Blair Handbook, 7th ed., 866).  It has more to do with tone, style, and structure, not the presence or absence of rules.  For example, "Just check out any of the cartoons today" (informal, but grammatically and conversationally correct) versus "Anyone who watches contemporary cartoons . . ." (formal).

QuoteYou are all aware that, unless writing posts as if writing a section of chapter from a story (which would be technically not correct anyway), you must head and date forum posts as if writing a letter, yes? Now, there are things set into place that help us with that... like Subject portion of reply (Re:), timestamps and our signatures at the bottom but this is not how they are generally used (or they are ignored) AND they are placed informally on the site.

Your source?  Myself, I've looked through seven different writing handbooks -- The Blair Handbook (5th ed.), Hacker's Rules for Writers, The Everyday Writer, The Allyn & Bacon Handbook, The Prentice Hall Reference Guide, Writing with Style, and the MLA Handbook -- and have been teaching university level writing/composition for eight years . . . never come across this before (besides which, forum posting isn't letter writing anyway; trying to apply rules from an old form to a new rarely works).
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Vandren

#46
Oh, and the Shakespeare popularity thing is true.  But not necessarily for the reasons stated.  In the Restoration period, he was considered a third-rate playwright, mostly because his subject matter and type of humor were no longer popular.  Putting women on the stage and groundbreaking special effects brought him back into popularity, though.  There's some good work on the subject out there by Don-John Dugas (Marketing the Bard: Shakespeare in Performance and Print, 1660-1740).
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Oniya

Quote from: DudelRok on December 16, 2010, 02:24:59 PM
Texting, I will give you as this is a technology that was created after the rules of writing wee created.

I realize this was probably a typo, but every time I see it, I think of the fact that texting actually does have its own 'rules', designed to cram as much information into as few characters as possible - 'writing wee'.
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Prakkie

Oooh... This is wonderful.

I've always had trouble with the desert / dessert one myself. So good to see I'm not the only one  ;D

Vandren

Quote from: Oniya on December 18, 2010, 11:21:40 AMI realize this was probably a typo, but every time I see it, I think of the fact that texting actually does have its own 'rules', designed to cram as much information into as few characters as possible - 'writing wee'.

Or "wee writing".  :)

I'm amused about "after the rules of writing were created", seeing as they weren't created, they evolved over time and are continuously evolving.  Sadly, texting is part of that evolution, a part that makes me think of Newspeak.
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Shjade

Quote from: Acinonyx on November 09, 2010, 01:49:26 AM
I wonder whether that's a mistake (under "koala bear"):

(Do I know my marsupials or do I know they are marsupials?)
They probably wrote it the way they meant it, but it did make me do a double take for a second.
It was written as intended. It's strange to think of it in that possessive way, but it's common usage for indicating people are very much in the know about a given subject (ex: Those sailors really know their tides.). I'm not sure of why this is, but if I had to guess I would say it's meant to suggest the indicated party's knowledge is such that whatever falls into the scope of their understanding belongs to said party on some foundational level in the way that you know the back of your hand so well because it is a part of you and, as a result, is yours. That's just educated guessing, though - no research to back it up or anything. ;p
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