Terrorist Attack in Paris (Split from News)

Started by Lustful Bride, November 13, 2015, 03:50:39 PM

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Lustful Bride

French Police reporting both a shootout and an explosion in Paris. Details still sketchy and its unknown if they are actually related.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/french-police-report-shootout-and-explosion-in-paris/ar-BBmYFit?ocid=iehp

No casualties reported yet, lets hope it stays that way.

Lissadell

#1
It's being reported now in The Independent that up to eighteen people have lost their lives in Paris.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-shooting-several-casualties-after-gunman-opens-fire-a6734201.html

There's a French journalist tweeting live from the area. Sounds absolutely insane.

ETA: Reports now of approx 60 people being held hostage at a theatre.

AngelsSonata

Just been reported that the siege of the Bataclan Concert Hall is now over.

Lissadell

Quote from: AngelsSonata on November 13, 2015, 06:04:58 PM
Just been reported that the siege of the Bataclan Concert Hall is now over.

Reports now that there are approximately 100 people dead in the concert hall. This is nightmare stuff. Thoughts with the people of Paris tonight.

Lustful Bride

Prayers are with the families of the victims and with the officers and Counterterrorism squads patrolling the streets. If there are any more psychos out there, I hope they catch them before they can do any more harm.

Deamonbane

No word yet on who is responsible, but the news is jumping at ISIS.
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gaggedLouise

#6
Quote from: Aurai on November 13, 2015, 06:18:23 PM
Reports now that there are approximately 100 people dead in the concert hall. This is nightmare stuff. Thoughts with the people of Paris tonight.

Damn.   >:( Heard the first news a few hours ago, when it sounded like a restaurant shoot-out with like half a dozen dead, perhaps triggered by some local criminal gang elements, and catching the news again after a night out, it's grown into a monstrous mass killing on a scale that all but dwarfs even the Charlie-Hebdo shootings in January.   :'( The most blood-stained terrorist attack in western Europe for decades - edit: excepting the 2003 Madrid bombing and Breivik's lone-wolf massacre in Oslo. Really troubling.

The concert hall they attacked is also one of the classic venues for rock and soul music in Paris (and the people taken hostage were indeed attending a rock gig).

There are reports now that the big migrants and refugees camp outside Calais - it has been in the news several times over the last years because of how close it is to the Channel railway link - is burning (link to twitter in French, with pictures). It might be a revenge attack by...fascists, after what happened in Paris. Or something may have happened within the camp itself.

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Lissadell

Quote from: gaggedLouise on November 13, 2015, 07:03:15 PMThere are reports now that the big migrants and refugees camp outside Calais - it has been in the news several times over the last years because of how close it is to the Channel railway link - is burning (link to twitter in French, with pictures). It might be a revenge attack by...fascists, after what happened in Paris. Or something may have happened within the camp itself.

The BBC have said that the pictures of the fires in Calais aren't actually from tonight, other news outlets are reporting that it's a hoax. I sincerely hope this is the case, because this night couldn't get any more tragic.

The Eagles of Death Metal were playing in the Bataclan. The band themselves are reportedly safe, but 118 of the hostages that were inside are dead. Along with the people shot at the restaurant and the three people killed by a suicide bomber outside the Stade de France while France were playing Germany in a football (soccer) friendly.

France have closed their borders and a curfew is being enforced; something that hasn't been done since WWII. You're so right, this is a monstrous mass killing and it's going to change so much here in Europe.

gaggedLouise

#8
This one was filmed at the very same hall forty years ago - it never felt more chilling than now, though Genesis truncated off the early part of the song that sets the scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z3EJNgjBmo

Peter Gabriel is playing out a satiric characterization of a paranoid revolutionary leader on a power trip - a kind of demented Che Guevara wannabe - with no human concern for the people he wants to liberate, barely even for his own men ("Some of you are going to die /Martyrs of course to the freedom that I shall provide"). The haunting calls of "We are only wanting freedom" are likely coming from some of the people he has decided to liberate and whom he has put under his boots.

The studio version brings out the story more clearly. It's one of the very first tracks I ever heard with this great band, even if it was an oldie - would have been around ten at the time - and it's enduringly relevant and poignant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDgh3C6klMQ


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White Wolf

Quote from: Aurai on November 13, 2015, 07:13:07 PM
it's going to change so much here in Europe.

I truly, deeply hope not. Either in the sense of increased security "for our protection," new surveillance laws, or just grass-roots, fascist reprisals against the Islamic community in France or elsewhere in Europe. I feel sick tonight not just for all those touched by the attacks but also because of the sheer volume of hatred and bile being slung on social media right this second - and we need to be BETTER than them. That's the whole point of our society - THEY are the terrorists, WE are the democracies. We need to better.

And I just don't see that from us right now. There's just hatred compounding hatred and threats of violence compounding actual violence. It would suit plenty of people just fine if we let everything just descend into tit-for-tat racial warfare and that makes me so sick to my stomach I can barely breathe.

I hate this. I hate what these people have done to Paris; I hate what my countrymen and fellow Europeans as a whole are saying in response. This whole thing is so culturally and politically shitty, and I really, desperately hope Europe can rise up as the bigger man here; as the better people.

...and while we're at the whole compassionate, measured response kick here at home, if this does turn out to be ISIS or someone of that ilk who's responsible, then let's stop pussyfooting around it and just put the boot into them once and for all. It's well past time.
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Scribbles

It's been a long time since I've felt so drained after watching the news...

My heart goes out to the people hurt in these attacks...

Quote from: LittleWhiteWolfy on November 13, 2015, 08:37:44 PM
And I just don't see that from us right now. There's just hatred compounding hatred and threats of violence compounding actual violence. It would suit plenty of people just fine if we let everything just descend into tit-for-tat racial warfare and that makes me so sick to my stomach I can barely breathe.

I hate this. I hate what these people have done to Paris; I hate what my countrymen and fellow Europeans as a whole are saying in response. This whole thing is so culturally and politically shitty, and I really, desperately hope Europe can rise up as the bigger man here; as the better people.

I suppose many have yet to realize that's exactly what ISIS want, they want to see Muslims ostracized and reviled, they want to see Europe fractured. It's understandable, everyone is seeing red so reason has gone out the window, but hopefully tempers will cool and all the hate won't go beyond words...
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White Wolf

Quote from: Scribbles on November 14, 2015, 12:18:35 AM
I suppose many have yet to realize that's exactly what ISIS want, they want to see Muslims ostracized and reviled, they want to see Europe fractured. It's understandable, everyone is seeing red so reason has gone out the window, but hopefully tempers will cool and all the hate won't go beyond words...

Hear, hear :/ For everybody's sake, here's hoping.
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Lissadell

Exactly right Wolfy and Scribbles, they want Europe to turn on Muslims. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in this world, and what better way to galvanise them than to have the world turn their backs on them collectively.

I think we are smarter than that though, I think we are better. I hope we are. There have been all sorts of calls for blood, and I hope the target remains the terrorists responsible and not the innocent millions and refugees. It is scary what a lot of people have been saying, all over Europe. I am hoping too that a lot of that remains rhetoric and doesn't go beyond words. I don't know if hoping that is naive or not, but the world felt like such a different place last night.

Blythe

I've split this into its own thread--it's very big news and warranted its own topic for further discussion.

Shekinah

News update:

So far around 128 people have been killed last night, many more are badly wounded and are being treated in hospitals. 8 Terrorists would be responsible for attacks on 7 places. Three blew themselves up around the football stadium where France was playing Germany in a friendly game. 3 others also blew themselves up in different restaurants and bars after having opened fire first. Two others went into a concert hall, first holding hostage and then killing many of the people who where there for a dead metal concert. When the police tried to free the remaining hostages, one blew himself up the other was killed by the police. IS also has officially claimed the attack as their own.

My heart goes out to all the families that have lost a loved one in this attack.

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Cassandra LeMay

Quote from: Scribbles on November 14, 2015, 12:18:35 AM
I suppose many have yet to realize that's exactly what ISIS want, they want to see Muslims ostracized and reviled, they want to see Europe fractured.
Maybe they want that, but I don't think it's their primary goal.

What ISIS wants is power. And to gain power they have to be king of the islamist hill in their corner of the world. And to get there they need success and success that can be turned into propaganda. Terror attacks are just a means to an end to them. They don't care if Europe splits, if Muslims in Europe are reviled or not. As long as a headline reads "ISIS strikes again!" they are satisfied. Headlines like that show they are successful. Success brings in more fighter. More fighters mean more power. Power is what they want.

What ISIS wants is to be talked about in a way that makes them look strong. If they could achieve that by sending chocolates and flowers to the White House they would do it. Power is what they want and attacks like this are them playing to their home audience. I don't think they give a flying shite about what "The West" thinks about Muslims, as long as they can milk it for propaganda.

I believe the best way to understand ISIS is to forget about religious matters, the Iraq war, and all that and look at ISIS as a criminal organization, because that is pretty much what they are. They intimidate, blackmail, extort, and try to control people in their area for their own gain. ISIS is a  criminal organization. Treating them any other way accords them too much status.

What happened in Paris isn't ISIS telling the West something - it's them telling the people under their control "look what we can do there. Now imagine what we can do here if we want".
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Lustful Bride

#16
Quote from: Scribbles on November 14, 2015, 12:18:35 AM
I suppose many have yet to realize that's exactly what ISIS want, they want to see Muslims ostracized and reviled, they want to see Europe fractured. It's understandable, everyone is seeing red so reason has gone out the window, but hopefully tempers will cool and all the hate won't go beyond words...

Seems even years later, this is still appropriate.





QuoteI believe the best way to understand ISIS is to forget about religious matters, the Iraq war, and all that and look at ISIS as a criminal organization, because that is pretty much what they are. They intimidate, blackmail, extort, and try to control people in their area for their own gain. ISIS is a  criminal organization. Treating them any other way accords them too much status.

Rather appropriate since most of what ISIS has done is a major taboo for Islam and they seem to mostly be focusing on areas that will give them the most oil/money to fund themselves. Not to mention the slavery and Human trafficking going on within their territory. The religious part is just a false justification, at the end of the day its about the bottom line. That and power.

White Wolf

#17
The Washington Post reports that ISIS released the following statement in Arabic, French and English claiming responsibility for the attacks:

"In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

"Allah (ta'ala) said, {They thought that their fortresses would protect them from Allah but Allah came upon them from where they had not expected, and He cast terror into their hearts so they destroyed their houses by their own hands and the hands of the believers. So take warning, O people of vision} [Al-Hashr:2].

"In a blessed battle whose causes of success were enabled by Allah, a group of believers from the soldiers of the Caliphate (may Allah strengthen and support it) set out targeting the capital of prostitution and vice, the lead carrier of the cross in Europe-Paris. This group of believers were youth who divorced the worldly life and advanced towards their enemy hoping to be killed for Allah's sake, doing so in support of His religion, His Prophet (blessing and peace be upon him), and His allies. They did so in spite of His enemies. Thus, they were truthful with Allah ā€” we consider them so ā€” and Allah granted victory upon their hands and cast terror into the hearts of the crusaders in their very own homeland.

"And so eight brothers equipped with explosive belts and assault rifles attacked precisely chosen targets in the center of the capital of France. These targets included the Stade de France stadium during a soccer match ā€” between the teams of Germany and France, both of which are crusader nations ā€” attended by the imbecile of France (Francois Hollande). The targets included the Bataclan theatre for exhibitions, where hundreds of pagans gathered for a concert of prostitution and vice. There were also simultaneous attacks on other targets in the tenth, eleventh, and eighteenth districts, and elsewhere. Paris was thereby shaken beneath the crusaders' feet, who were constricted by its streets. The result of the attacks was the deaths of no less than two hundred crusaders and the wounding of even more. All praise, grace, and favor belong to Allah.

"Allah blessed our brothers and granted them what they desired. They detonated their explosive belts in the masses of the disbelievers after finishing all their ammunition. We ask Allah to accept them amongst the martyrs and to allow us to follow them.

"Let France and all nations following its path know that they will continue to be at the top of the target list for the Islamic State and that the scent of death will not leave their nostrils as long as they partake in the crusader campaign, as long as they dare to curse our Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), and as long as they boast about their war against Islam in France and their strikes against Muslims in the lands of the Caliphate with their jets, which were of no avail to them in the filthy streets and alleys of Paris. Indeed, this is just the beginning. It is also a warning for any who wish to take heed.

"Allah is the greatest.

(And to Allah belongs all honor, and to His Messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites do not know) [Al-Munafiqun: 8].
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Formless

I wasn't aware that a concert hall or a stadium was a fortress.

You know if my country wasn't such a pacifist we could've done something about those people. They exploit people with chronic depression into picking up an explosive belt and throwing away their lives. But no , they're holding back because no one wants to be branded as ' the guy who attacked other Muslims'. Well they're not.

I'm praying for those who lost a family member or a loved one. I'm praying that whoever did it will spend their after all torn and shredded just like how he ended up when pressed the button.


gaggedLouise

#19
French police seem to have found a Syrian passport on the body of one of the terrorists from last night that matches a man who passed into Greece and the EU last month, over the island of Leros. Unless it's a deliberately planted red herring by the terrorist team and the guy was somebody else, it's very significant. The risk of ISIS sending some of its own militants and terrorists through the masses of people entering Europe via the Balkan route, or across from Libya to Italy, has been a bone of contention for months. ISIS have claimed they were sending in their own fighters that way, some terrorism experts have said they would do it, but many people (myself included) have felt it was unlikely that they would be training terrorists and then send them on those insecure routes into Europe.

After all many people drown trying to make an unofficial passage across the Mediterranean or the Aegean - they can't do it on the legit shipping routes if they want to trash their passports to avoid being sent back, or if they don't have any to begin with, and many of them do scrap their passports for that reason - but ISIS would surely have the means of forging and fixing passports so that they can let their terrorism trainees and agents ride into Europe on ordinary ships and flights, wouldn't they? I still think it's more likely that ISIS would try to use the legal routes with a cooked passport or a stolen identity, but if this guy came in as a Syrian refugee, then people all across Europe are going to have to rethink some hard questions about how to handle the refugees and migrants, many of whom either pose as Syrians (or Afghans) because those nationalities have had the best chances of getting a yes to their asylum applications, and/or have no passports or visas at all.

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Cassandra LeMay

#20
I would still like to think that it is highly unlikely that ISIS is trying to infiltrate terrorists into Europe amidst the refugees. After all, why would they?

Hundreds of people have left Europe to fight for ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Those are people willing to take up arms for ISIS who live in Europe. Why on Earth would ISIS want to smuggle those people back into the countries they came from when they seem to have potential recruits already here?

The whole scenario of people being brought here amongst the refugees to commit acts of terrorism also ignores the possibility that refugees may have been redicalized after arriving in Europe. But I suppose considering that possibility would land some responsibility on the shoulders of Western politicians who would rather blame ISIS than contemplate that idea.
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saphireMARIE

I don't know if this will be accessible by all but I have spent all day today watching the live updates on the BBC which is still being updated every 15 minutes or so. Everything that has been confirmed has been on here and apparently (according to British Newspapers) the IS have owned up to doing the attacks.

la dame en noir

Basically...I'm seeing how hypocritical the news actually is. I didn't see any mass coverage on Beirut. Nor did I hear anything about the terrible shit that went down in Kenya, Nigeria and the Middle east. I've been seeing people tell students at Mizzou to shut the fuck up because France is going through real oppression and hatred. Now I'm seriously worried about the refugees. They will be blamed for these attacks. They will be harassed, attacked, threatened, killed, and discriminated against because of these fuckers.

I'm not saying don't care about Paris, but people really need to see how hypocritical and racist the news has been lately - Not that they were ever fair before.
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Lustful Bride

Quote from: la dame en noir on November 14, 2015, 03:03:09 PM
I didn't see any mass coverage on Beirut. Nor did I hear anything about the terrible shit that went down in Kenya, Nigeria and the Middle east.

I'm not saying don't care about Paris, but people really need to see how hypocritical and racist the news has been lately - Not that they were ever fair before.

To be fair, that's really just Human nature. We don't care about things until they hit closer to home and our self imposed ideal of safety starts to crack and we realize the same thing can happen to us.

Plus lets be honest the media being fair, unhypocritical and unbiased? That's why I refuse to call it the news anymore and refer to it as media. ITs not about reporting what happens anymore, its about getting views and spinning it to whichever way will have some silver spoon politician tossing cash their way.

la dame en noir

I'm just very upset about this. I had to message my own friend who has family in Beirut because no one cared to talk to her about it or mention it. NO ONE mentioned it. How does it hit close to home for everyone? There isn't anything fair about it. If people scream "we're all human, all lives matter" but are the same ones telling people to stfu and worry about ONE country. That's when I get heated. This whole world is doomed and I'm not just saying this to be a superstitious person.
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Lustful Bride

Quote from: la dame en noir on November 14, 2015, 03:22:45 PM
I'm just very upset about this. I had to message my own friend who has family in Beirut because no one cared to talk to her about it or mention it. NO ONE mentioned it. How does it hit close to home for everyone? There isn't anything fair about it. If people scream "we're all human, all lives matter" but are the same ones telling people to stfu and worry about ONE country. That's when I get heated. This whole world is doomed and I'm not just saying this to be a superstitious person.

That's life sadly. ITs all one confusing shade of gray that will drive a person completely mad if they try and make sense of it. The only thing to do is to help your fellow get back on their feet after life beats them down. We are all fellow travelers heading to the end. The future gets scarier everyday but together we can at least make this world livable. Its a naiive view yes, but nothing was ever accomplished by being pessimistic.

Kind of went on a weird tangent and not 100% sure what I was trying to go for. I'm sorry about your friend's family and I hope they are safe. And that the scum who did this have a deep pit in hell waiting for them where for all eternity they feel nothing but the pain they inflicted upon others and are reminded of it for every single second of their punishment.

la dame en noir

I'm not upset at you. Just wanted to share my frustrations.
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Lustful Bride

Quote from: la dame en noir on November 14, 2015, 03:37:14 PM
I'm not upset at you. Just wanted to share my frustrations.

Its fine, these are hard times, and keeping our feelings inside only hurts ourselves. Its good to release them every now and again.
But our anger should be more directed to the murderers who are building the bombs and using them to kill civilians. Monsters like that have no humanity, and they need to be destroyed.

Cycle

Quote from: Lustful Bride on November 14, 2015, 03:39:49 PM
But our anger should be more directed to the murderers who are building the bombs and using them to kill civilians. Monsters like that have no humanity, and they need to be destroyed.

la dame en noir feels what she feels.  She has not expressed them in a way that is harmful to others.  I think we should respect her feelings, even if we feel otherwise.  I don't think we should be telling her how to feel or what to feel.


Lustful Bride

Quote from: Cycle on November 14, 2015, 03:48:57 PM
la dame en noir feels what she feels.  She has not expressed them in a way that is harmful to others.  I think we should respect her feelings, even if we feel otherwise.  I don't think we should be telling her how to feel or what to feel.

Very well.  :-)  was just offering it up.

Vekseid

Quote from: la dame en noir on November 14, 2015, 03:22:45 PM
I'm just very upset about this. I had to message my own friend who has family in Beirut because no one cared to talk to her about it or mention it. NO ONE mentioned it. How does it hit close to home for everyone? There isn't anything fair about it. If people scream "we're all human, all lives matter" but are the same ones telling people to stfu and worry about ONE country. That's when I get heated. This whole world is doomed and I'm not just saying this to be a superstitious person.

For what it's worth, I've seen updates about the situation in Nigeria regularly and heard about Beirut about half an hour after I heard about Paris. If you are referring to this attack in Kenya, I heard of it too.

Some of it additionally has to do with the statement from ISIS and President Hollande's statements.

Finally, focusing on the worst of the world is a particularly nasty form of poison. Earth is an immense place, and every day more than a thousand people lose their lives to violence alone. You could dedicate your life to naming each one.

To me, it says something else entirely that someone could actually do such a thing.

Lustful Bride

Heres an interesting thought: Do terrorist attacks actually work?

I mean, attacks like these, 9-11, the Boston marathon bombing, Charlie Hebdo, the countless attacks in the Mideast, Africa and elsewhere. They are designed to instill total fear in the populace, destabilize, damage the economy and get governments to capitulate. But so far all these terrorist attacks have succeeded is in getting people waving their own flags harder and going to the nearest recruiting station to enlist and fight the people who commit these acts.

They get a populace riled up and wanting justice, I don't think these tactics actually work, I mean, not in the longrun.

la dame en noir

Quote from: Vekseid on November 14, 2015, 05:39:21 PM
For what it's worth, I've seen updates about the situation in Nigeria regularly and heard about Beirut about half an hour after I heard about Paris. If you are referring to this attack in Kenya, I heard of it too.

Some of it additionally has to do with the statement from ISIS and President Hollande's statements.

Finally, focusing on the worst of the world is a particularly nasty form of poison. Earth is an immense place, and every day more than a thousand people lose their lives to violence alone. You could dedicate your life to naming each one.

To me, it says something else entirely that someone could actually do such a thing.

I don't get to hear as much as I would like about other countries and the terror they live through everyday. I'm mostly hurt because I've seen so many people try to showcase one issue over the other. There have been tweets were people were literally telling black American students to get over it because Paris is more important.

It should never be a fight about which life matters more and people should understand that.
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Lustful Bride

Quote from: la dame en noir on November 14, 2015, 06:19:33 PM
There have been tweets were people were literally telling black American students to get over it because Paris is more important.

But that right there tells you that it would come from the typical bigoted idiots who start shit for the sake of starting it. "Look for the helpers". Look for the people actually trying to give support and advice...but the internet has a bad habit of only showing the worst. Ive lost count of how many times ive been insulted and talked down to as an American, a Christian and a woman...it honestly makes humanity look like the worse thing to ever crawl out of the primordial muck.

But remember that those are only the worst people. There just aren't enough of the good people out there opening up and speaking out. Plus there's always the people who say shit just to cause flame wars and because they are scared little shits who still live in their parents basement.  :-)

Cycle

Quote from: la dame en noir on November 14, 2015, 06:19:33 PM
There have been tweets were people were literally telling black American students to get over it because Paris is more important.

I frequently see this tactic employed and I find it wholly unpersuasive.  Just because something worse exists doesn't mean something bad isn't bad--or that bad thing doesn't deserve attention.  It is like arguing that people shouldn't be upset or trying to do anything to prevent thefts because murders occur.  Obviously, such an argument is ludicrous. 

So yes, we absolutely should try to stop ISIS from pulling off another attack like this one and help the Parisians.  But we can, and should, also be trying to mitigate the racism ingrained in Mizzou culture.

Drake Valentine

The saddest part of all of this is that the U.S Trained and Funded I.S.I.S

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Lustful Bride

#37
Quote from: Drake Valentine on November 14, 2015, 07:46:35 PM
The saddest part of all of this is that the U.S Trained and Funded I.S.I.S

No, that was the Taliban, though back when so many were united under the Mujahideen some of them were probably what made ISIS now.

Edit: Though at this point there are so many factions and groups its hard to keep track.

Drake Valentine

Quote from: Lustful Bride on November 14, 2015, 08:04:51 PM
No, that was the Taliban, though back when so many were united under the Mujahideen some of them were probably what made ISIS now.

Edit: Though at this point there are so many factions and groups its hard to keep track.

http://www.truthandaction.org/us-trained-isis-forces-jordan-base/

http://www.alternet.org/world/how-isis-ended-stocked-american-weapons / http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/06/04/Fog-War-US-Has-Armed-ISIS

and



Just saying.

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#39
Quote from: Drake Valentine on November 14, 2015, 08:41:26 PM
http://www.truthandaction.org/us-trained-isis-forces-jordan-base/

http://www.alternet.org/world/how-isis-ended-stocked-american-weapons / http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/06/04/Fog-War-US-Has-Armed-ISIS

and


Just saying.

Welp, fuck. All the more reason to blow them to bits then. Gotta clean up our own mess.

And its not like they are actually sane enough/ actually give a damn, to open a dialogue with and go "Hey stop raping, pillaging and beheading"

gaggedLouise

#40
Apparently there had been indications before to the Paris police that there could be a current threat. A 51-year old man who has been in police custody in Germany for ten days was caught in his car in Bavaria, near the Austrian-German border, on November 5; in the trunk of his car there were explosives and several heavy guns. The GPS settings in his on-board computer were set for a route to Paris. The German police alerted their French colleagues that something big might be afoot in the capital. The guy said he was planning to make a torist trip to Paris and take a look at the Eiffel tower. He is refusing to answer any questions about what else he may have been planning in Paris, and says he had no idea of the luggage found in the back of the car.  ::)

Also, there may have been plans to attack the famed Moulin Rouge cabaret hall. The ISIS statement, which would have been written in advance, mentions actions in the 10th, 11th and 18th arrondissements (city districts) of Paris, but there was no attack in the 18th, in northern Paris, where Moulin Rouge (and some other possible targets - it's the Montmartre and the area around it) are located. In a supposed getaway car which was found in a suburb, there were several Kalashnikov assault guns and packets of unused munitions; this again gives the impression that something more had been planned.



Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

Lustful Bride

#41
My god, so many people are being played and they don't even realize.

On other sites I frequent there's a rush of islamaphobia and just...endless slurs everywhere. These people don't even realize that by doing this they are just giving ISIS and other similar groups a perfect recruiting tool and way to justify their attacks to the average grunt on the ground. They can just point online and say "Do you see? They preach about 'equality' but it is a lie, in truth they hate us and want to kill us all. So we should kill them first."

People are being played like puppets and gladly accepting their strings.

Oniya

I'm going to just avoid Facebook for a week.  I left a parting shot on my wall - two Mr. Rogers quotes and two music videos (Winds of Change and Land of Confusion).  I fully expect one 'unfriending' to occur, and I'm not even going to miss them.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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gaggedLouise


Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

White Wolf

Quote from: gaggedLouise on November 15, 2015, 04:19:47 PM
France is responding with airstrikes on a number of sompounds and "governement" buildings in Raqqa, the ISIS capital.

Am I alone in feeling a sense of...emptiness at that news? I keep up with current events and I've been aware that ISIS is on the run on the ground war (Russian airstrikes have allowed the Syrian army to rip ISIS from Aleppo while, simultaneously, the Kurds have pushed ISIS off their lucrative oil fields in the north - ISIS is very much on the retreat as we speak), and any steps to hasten their inevitably downfall are, definitely, a good thing.

But what Lustful Bride says haunts me - true indeed, all over social media people are reacting to this latest round of airstrikes with "Yeah! Payback time!" and "Kill the subhuman filth!" and any variation on those basic themes. Like I think I said before, isn't the point of us being the Western democracies that we're BETTER than terrorists? Aren't we fighting terrorism BECAUSE they don't value human life and kill indiscriminately? So when we shed our mask and reveal that at heart, we are no different..what's the point?

By that I'm not even implying France shouldn't continue its campaign in Syria - I'm not criticising governments; rather, the people. Us, Westerners. We seem to be so ready to condemn anybody we view as a "terrorist" and yet, clearly, we don't actually know what the word is supposed to mean/our own views really aren't that different when we get down to it.

ISIS thinks we're subhuman, so they kill us. We think Muslims are subhuman, so we kill them. That's not a high moral ground - that's a dogfight.

I guess I'm just so disappointed in people's reaction to all this horror. Some naive part of me still believed we were better than all this. Ugh.
The stars are coming right. Is this really the end?

Lustful Bride

#45
Quote from: LittleWhiteWolfy on November 15, 2015, 04:54:55 PM
Am I alone in feeling a sense of...emptiness at that news? I keep up with current events and I've been aware that ISIS is on the run on the ground war (Russian airstrikes have allowed the Syrian army to rip ISIS from Aleppo while, simultaneously, the Kurds have pushed ISIS off their lucrative oil fields in the north - ISIS is very much on the retreat as we speak), and any steps to hasten their inevitably downfall are, definitely, a good thing.

But what Lustful Bride says haunts me - true indeed, all over social media people are reacting to this latest round of airstrikes with "Yeah! Payback time!" and "Kill the subhuman filth!" and any variation on those basic themes. Like I think I said before, isn't the point of us being the Western democracies that we're BETTER than terrorists? Aren't we fighting terrorism BECAUSE they don't value human life and kill indiscriminately? So when we shed our mask and reveal that at heart, we are no different..what's the point?

By that I'm not even implying France shouldn't continue its campaign in Syria - I'm not criticising governments; rather, the people. Us, Westerners. We seem to be so ready to condemn anybody we view as a "terrorist" and yet, clearly, we don't actually know what the word is supposed to mean/our own views really aren't that different when we get down to it.

ISIS thinks we're subhuman, so they kill us. We think Muslims are subhuman, so we kill them. That's not a high moral ground - that's a dogfight.

I guess I'm just so disappointed in people's reaction to all this horror. Some naive part of me still believed we were better than all this. Ugh.

That's just the endless cycle of violence and retribution. But theres a big wrench in your small rant there.

The civilian casualties that are caused by our strikes are accidental, an unfortunate side effect of dropping a bomb on an enemy who refuses to come out and fight like real soldiers, and is accustomed to using human shields.

When ISIS kills civilians, that's because it is one of their goals, their modus operandi, a tool they use and delight in.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Plus a lot of times our planes have been returning with undropped bombs because Isis refuses to move too far from civies and areas of high noncombatant populations.

I'm looking for the article that said that but that was about 3 months ago and I cant find it now @_@

Not that we are really saints (that's a concept I think has been lost to humanity lately) but we are certainly not to the levels of ISIS and other such groups.


Edit: Also people are still dealing with a fresh wound and tensions are still high. Not to mention, well its the internet and you always see the absolute uglirest parts of humanity. I once saw a person insulting someone for writing a prayer online for a friend who died of cancer, and focusing solely on the Christianity part and not the fact that he was harassing someone grieving of the the loss of a friend. Fucking hate some of these people on the internet sometimes, think its made us worse socially than before.


gaggedLouise

#46
The ISIS top command are no dumb guys, so they must have known before they launched the Paris attacks that this kind of response was a likely one. It's a classic way to retaliate, isn't it? and France has been responding with speed and precision in this way in the past. I'm fairly sure that ISIS' leading guys and senior officers were in their bunkers before the bombing began. The peoople up on the ground and inside those buoildings - men, women and possibly children, and ordinary soldiers - were left to die and suffer.

Even if the Paris group had managed to take out president Hollande - he would have been their number one target at the football stadium, but that attack went down the drain - it's likely that the crisis cabinet and the vice president would have responded with air strikes on Raqqa. The leaders of that outfit simply wouldn't care, they see their men as expendables in something like this. Hell, it's exactly like in that song by Genesis I linked to earlier in this thread: "Some of you are going to die / Martyrs of course to the freedom that I shall provide!" - just substitute free space given to their state for "freedom" and it's the same.  >:(

In the long run though, ISIS isn't the kind of adversary one can topple with just airstrikes, and they're obviously very dangerous. They are unlike any other kind of rogue movement in modern history, aren't they? To get rid of them and make way for something better will likely take a ground war...and it can't wait for like five years while they are given a long wndow of time to strike deeper roots in the region, kill and sell more people and become even more of a serious menace. I do think there will be a point sometime when the real big boys get into some kind of ground war with them, and that could mean both France, the US and even Iran. Perhaps even Russia. They all see ISIS as a threat, and the Iraqi army is inadequate, poorly led and won't have any chance to do much against those well-trained fanatics.

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

White Wolf

Lustful Bride, I probably caused more confusion than intended by saying "We think Muslims are subhuman, so kill them." I was in no way speaking about civilian casualties of Western operations; my point was rather that I was speaking from the (espoused) point of view of the kind of social media tough-guys I'm grinding my teeth at. My only point was, these people call terrorists subhuman for being vicious animals, and then talk like vicious animals themselves in how to deal with them. The hypocrisy really and truly devastates me.

When it comes to civilian casualties that cannot, unfortunately, be avoided. It's going to happen one way or another, no matter what we do. The objective, as you said, is to minimise that as much as possible.
The stars are coming right. Is this really the end?

Lustful Bride

Quote from: LittleWhiteWolfy on November 15, 2015, 06:24:16 PM
Lustful Bride, I probably caused more confusion than intended by saying "We think Muslims are subhuman, so kill them." I was in no way speaking about civilian casualties of Western operations; my point was rather that I was speaking from the (espoused) point of view of the kind of social media tough-guys I'm grinding my teeth at. My only point was, these people call terrorists subhuman for being vicious animals, and then talk like vicious animals themselves in how to deal with them. The hypocrisy really and truly devastates me.

When it comes to civilian casualties that cannot, unfortunately, be avoided. It's going to happen one way or another, no matter what we do. The objective, as you said, is to minimise that as much as possible.

Social media tough guys...perfect way to describe them. I know so many fuck wads on youtube and countless other sites who will never miss a chance to spew insults at someone over race, religion, sex, politics, but the moment they would be faced with someone in real life they would probably shit themselves. But enough about them, they get too much attention as is.

Drake Valentine

#49
I believe sound retaliation is the proper course of action for any to take.

For instance, if they wouldn't go around randomly terrorizing people who are minding their own business and going about their daily lives, than they would likely have nothing to worry about.

Instead, they simply choose to piss on others way of living, of course their actions are going to warrant a lot of hate and desired revenge.

The thing that still bothers me is I can't even begin to understand why we(US) were training and helping them before all this. I would of assumed government learned their lesson down Bin Laden path, since we(US) were responsible for his training as well and look what it caused; but now it seemed like a great idea to give plenty of military teaching to an entire group who have similar religious views(or probably same) as Bin Laden.

Views that they aim to use and justify as a bloody crusade.

There is honestly no helping these people. These are people that use child soldiers, strap bombs to children, sell girls as sex slaves, and of course have no courtesy or care for proper warfare tactics given how they aim their assaults to civilians with their 'holy war.' These are people that thrive in warcrimes, if you can even classify them(ones responsible) as 'people' at all.

What really needs to be done is something to get the message across for them to settle down and leave people alone with their shenanigans.

I am sure a few carpet bombings would likely lead to their inevitable downfall, rip their city apart, but that in itself isn't one of the best moves as it will likely still catch and kill civilians.

I say pull a Black Jack Pershing on the terrorists and see how well they may decide to keep up their behavior.

"When I'm Done With You, You'll Be a:
Raped, Bloody, And Humiliated, Little Alice in Wonderland."

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TaintedAndDelish


While I got an evil laugh out of the post above, I have to wonder how well this would work with those who are only religious on the outside, so to speak.

Praxis

Quote from: Formless on November 14, 2015, 10:03:19 AM
They exploit people with chronic depression into picking up an explosive belt and throwing away their lives. But no , they're holding back because no one wants to be branded as ' the guy who attacked other Muslims'. Well they're not.



It's a messaging problem and news/media outlets aren't helping.

While ISIS is doing a great job of making it an "Islamic" thing...it's not.

Religion isn't the problem here.  Terrorists...villains...sub-human people are the problem here.  I'm not really certain why the media outlets are pushing the "Islam" angle as hard as they are (beyond sheer ignorance which I think is likely).  There are...what...over 1 billion Muslims?  This is one group of Muslims that are getting it way...way wrong. 

Of course ISIS will paint it as a war on Muslims.  They benefit from that incorrect view point.

Oniya

Quote from: Praxis on November 16, 2015, 01:18:48 PM
Religion isn't the problem here.  Terrorists...villains...sub-human people are the problem here.  I'm not really certain why the media outlets are pushing the "Islam" angle as hard as they are (beyond sheer ignorance which I think is likely). 

There are certain people/groups who thrive on keeping the population divided against its own interests.  Don't look at the man behind the curtain - that person over there is the real problem, because they've got a different [skin color, religion, gender, orientation] than you.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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Mithlomwen

Quote from: Oniya on November 16, 2015, 01:31:01 PM
There are certain people/groups who thrive on keeping the population divided against its own interests.  Don't look at the man behind the curtain - that person over there is the real problem, because they've got a different [skin color, religion, gender, orientation] than you.

To go along with that....

A good friend of mine posted this on FB today, and it is so true: 

Spoilered for large size

Baby, it's all I know,
that your half of the flesh and blood that makes me whole...

Praxis

Quote from: Mithlomwen on November 16, 2015, 01:50:05 PM
To go along with that....

A good friend of mine posted this on FB today, and it is so true: 

Spoilered for large size


I was off by 0.6!   *shakes fist at you*

Mithlomwen

Baby, it's all I know,
that your half of the flesh and blood that makes me whole...

Praxis

Quote from: Mithlomwen on November 16, 2015, 02:20:26 PM
*sheepish grin* 

Sorry.  ;D

It's not as if 0.6 of a billion is a large number or anything...

Zakharra


gaggedLouise

#58
Police in Serbia have found a Syrian passport that matches the one found next to one of the suicide bombers who tried to get inside the Stade de France stadium - but with a different photograph. Someone with a passport showing the same details passed the Greek island of Leros in early October, this would likely have been the future bomber set on a course for Paris, but it's not 100% sure (there are no notes from there about what the photo looked like). Most likely both passports are fakes, developed from the stolen or traded passort of some unknown Syrian.

Just shows that a) we don't know who these terrorists were, and b) you can't really trust a Syrian passport any longer. They're preferred for skilful faking and duplicating, a point that I've heard made by several police officials over the last week

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

Formless

Quote from: Zakharra on November 17, 2015, 12:46:05 AM
  I ran across this on another forum. It's good and faces the problem of ISIS head on.
http://www.jeraldinephneah.me/2015/11/singaporean-muslim-response-to-the-paris-terror-attacks-by-isis.html

While I see the good intention behind that man's post. It is sadly false.

Sura 4, Verse 93. Killing a muslim denounce your Islam-hood.
But whoever kills a believer intentionally ā€“ his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.

[spoiler Sura 5, Verse 32. The Sanctity of one life equals all life.]Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land ā€“ it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one ā€“ it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.[/spoiler]

These radicals denounced their humanity before they denounced their islamhood. They're not one of us. They're not humans.

And let's not forget these are the same people who actually bomb mosques. So no , they're not Muslims. I will not recognize them as Muslims , I will not recognize them as humans , and I will not recognize their right to die a quick death.

Zakharra

Quote from: Formless on November 17, 2015, 05:48:28 AM
While I see the good intention behind that man's post. It is sadly false.

Sura 4, Verse 93. Killing a muslim denounce your Islam-hood.
But whoever kills a believer intentionally ā€“ his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.

[spoiler Sura 5, Verse 32. The Sanctity of one life equals all life.]Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land ā€“ it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one ā€“ it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.[/spoiler]

These radicals denounced their humanity before they denounced their islamhood. They're not one of us. They're not humans.

And let's not forget these are the same people who actually bomb mosques. So no , they're not Muslims. I will not recognize them as Muslims , I will not recognize them as humans , and I will not recognize their right to die a quick death.

I would agree with that if not for the fact that Muslims have been killing each other for centuries. Muslim have fought and killed other Muslims for a very long time now and as far as I know, none of them have been called 'not Muslims' (or whatever the term is). Just saying that ISIS is killing other Muslims makes them not Muslims, doesn't fly when there are numerous examples throughout the history of Islam of Muslims killing each other for varied reasons; ideology (Shia, Shiite, and other sects), different countries invading each other, fighting over who will rule, and so on. So I cannot accept that reasoning as being a reason ISIS isn't Islamic.

Oniya

There are people that claim they are Christian and still kill other Christians and burn churches and other heinous things.  There are even hate groups that claim they are Christians.  Allowing them to claim that kinship is where we have a choice. 

I, for one, do not.  They may quote scripture, and go to services, but they have lost sight of the meaning.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Amelita

We are defined by our choices. If we define people by religions we run into so many problems because religion is a highly personal thing. Being muslim and being muslim can be as different as being christian and being bhuddist. Raining down on a group of people for the choices they make while defining them by religion can never achieve anything positive in my opinion.

That said, my heart broke when this Paris attack pushed on media coverage and anger that got the world back on the prejudice track :/ The bad guys won the game before we even started playing it.


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Cycle

Quote from: Oniya on November 17, 2015, 12:39:01 PM
There are people that claim they are Christian and still kill other Christians and burn churches and other heinous things.  There are even hate groups that claim they are Christians.  Allowing them to claim that kinship is where we have a choice. 

I, for one, do not.  They may quote scripture, and go to services, but they have lost sight of the meaning.

Some Christians use the so-called word of God to spread hate and intolerance.  Others blow up government building and kill innocents. Telling me you are a Christian is like telling me you like hamburgers.  It tells me nothing about your capacity to do wrong.


Oniya

Quote from: Cycle on November 17, 2015, 03:19:53 PM
Some Christians use the so-called word of God to spread hate and intolerance.  Others blow up government building and kill innocents. Telling me you are a Christian is like telling me you like hamburgers.  It tells me nothing about your capacity to do wrong.

Self-applied labels aren't any guarantee of truth (agreeing with you and expanding my point).  If you say you like hamburgers, and consistently choose something different on the menu, then I'm going to think you don't really like hamburgers.

"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17


Lustful Bride

Quote from: Cycle on November 17, 2015, 07:14:35 PM
Bush 3.0 explains how to prove your Christian.  (Apologies for the ad.)

Yeah.  Good plan.

*Urge to light up a joint* Feel like I'm the last relatively sane Christian left some days.....the penguins...they steal my sanity one by one....and one of them is named Gunter! He wont stop dancing!

Oniya

Quote from: Lustful Bride on November 17, 2015, 07:27:41 PM
*Urge to light up a joint* Feel like I'm the last relatively sane Christian left some days.....the penguins...they steal my sanity one by one....and one of them is named Gunter! He wont stop dancing!

I would have thought Rico would be the one hiding stuff.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Drake Valentine

Back on topic.

Seems one of the terrorists are still at large.  Going by the telegraph site, may be a bit slow though or for me it was awfully so on my labtop.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11999927/Paris-France-terror-attacks-isil-Belgium-Molenbeek-suspects-Syria-Raqqa-bombing-live.html

"When I'm Done With You, You'll Be a:
Raped, Bloody, And Humiliated, Little Alice in Wonderland."

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Cycle

To those who think we shouldn't try to help the Syrian refugees, these articles are worth reading:  here and here



It'd be nice if we can learn a little from history.

White Wolf

I for one am very happy to see both Jeb Bush and John McCain come out against the GOP's anti-refugee rhetoric. Whatever happened to the "Home of the Brave?" When we have Chris Christie saying he won't take in a "five year old orphan," when did cowardice become the Republican Party's electoral strategy? In even more simplistic terms; isn't running screaming from orphans and widows quite literally giving in to "terror?" If we're too frightened by terrorism to even cast out the most basic lifelines to those in need - those actually fleeing that same terrorism in their home countries - then how can we talk about fighting a war on terror?

America and Europe should institute a new rule - politicians who refuse to take in refugees should not be allowed discuss military solutions to ISIS. We wouldn't want to frighten them any further.

In good news, though, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that high-level talks are taking place between France, the United States and Russia to form a "grand coalition" against ISIS.

The single biggest problem with the war effort against ISIS was contradictory mission statements; up until now the West has been rabidly transfixed on removing Assad from power, going so far as (before the emergence of ISIS as a serious terrorist threat, if you can cast your mind back that far) arming Jihadist groups in Syria and, after the emergence of ISIS, not having a clear objective in the fight - for PR purposes, they had to be seen to be targetting ISIS, but at the same time ISIS was helping push back against Assad so they didn't exactly want to go too far in the beating.

A few weeks ago US policy suddenly changed tack (curiously, almost immediately following the publication of an article in the Wall Street Journal by none other than Henry Kissinger, who suggested that cooperation with, not opposition to, Russia's own strategic objectives in Syria might be the best way forwards for the United States in containing ISIS) when the White House signalled that it may be willing to let Assad remain in power long enough to deal comprehensively with the Islamic State. After Paris, they expanded on this by agreeing on a formal timetable for a Syrian ceasefire (from January of next year) as well the road to actual elections which may, or may not, see Assad stand down from power.

The implication is very much that Syria's fragmented militia groups and government forces, as well as the world powers playing one side off against the other, are coalescing now in the face of ISIS as a mutual threat. While it's probably little consolation to Syrians themselves, who've already had nearly 4-5 years of nonstop war, it means ISIS may at last be driven out for good. As for the Syrians caught in the middle...well, that's why it's imperative we absolutely DO NOT close our borders to refugees. They have just as much right to live in peace as we do.
The stars are coming right. Is this really the end?

TaintedAndDelish

It''s true that Christians and Muslims have both committed some atrocities throughout history - let's not forget the Spanish Inquisition. I think it's human to try to rise to power and shape the world and our environment so that it's conducive to our mindset and needs. The problem with religions like these though, is that they are full of contradictions and considered to be "the word of god" and thus final. They are broken, but it's forbidden to repair them. I say fix the damn religious texts so that they are sane and open them up to people to question, debate, discard and improve on. Then and only then might some progress be made.

gaggedLouise

#72
Still not clear whether the French police actually caught the ringleader during a long televised siege of a house in Saint-Denis, just north of Paris. They got seven people out alive and took them away for questioning, not sure if the head man is one of them, but the police clearly throught he was there. Anyway, the mastermind of the whole operation was by no means unknown to cops and security people anywhere in Europe, he had been on the "fifty most wanted dangerous jihadists" lists for a long time, and everyone supposed he was still in IS territory in Syria.

It's *very* embarrassing that he had managed to get from Syria to France, across multiple national borders, without any cops noticing him or stopping him. There will be some really hard questions over this to police and politicians all over Europe.

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

gaggedLouise

#73
Police have confirmed that the man who led the plot was killed during the shootout in Saint-Denis on wednesday morning. It's been secured with fingerprint matching (to print samples that were taken long before the last few months), so it sounds definitive. An extremely dangerous man, and most likely, if it had been up close, he would have killed himself rather than let them take him alive. From the reports earlier, it sounded like his body had indeed been partly blown up by a bomb or something - said one body was "mixed up with pieces of the wall and furniture" and so on... Hmm.

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

Mithlomwen

Quote from: gaggedLouise on November 19, 2015, 06:47:42 AM
it sounded like his body had indeed been partly blown up by a bomb or something -

There was a female suicide bomber that detonated the bomb attached to herself during the raid, so they are thinking that was likely the cause. 
Baby, it's all I know,
that your half of the flesh and blood that makes me whole...

Cycle

I heard on the news this morning that they had six snipers monitoring the apartment, one took a shot at Abaaoud, hit him but didn't kill him.  They then tried to blow down the door to the apartment, but it had been armored against assault.  A second charge got the door down.  The people in the apartment were firing back with AK-47s and possibly an RPG, before Abaaoud's cousin finally detonating her suicide vest.

The French law enforcement definitely have my respect.  Nice going guys.  Truly.

Lustful Bride

Quote from: Cycle on November 19, 2015, 01:54:20 PM
I heard on the news this morning that they had six snipers monitoring the apartment, one took a shot at Abaaoud, hit him but didn't kill him.  They then tried to blow down the door to the apartment, but it had been armored against assault.  A second charge got the door down.  The people in the apartment were firing back with AK-47s and possibly an RPG, before Abaaoud's cousin finally detonating her suicide vest.

The French law enforcement definitely have my respect.  Nice going guys.  Truly.

Events like this have made me really wish that there was a real world version of Rainbow Six.

Skynet

#77
Apologies for Daily Mail, but the ex-wife of one of the terrorists revealed that her husband was a lazy bum who didn't bother going to local mosques, performing the salat, and wouldn't have fasted during Ramadam were it not for his family members making him do so.  He also spent all day doing drugs in his bedroom.

Link.

He also accidentally set off his suicide vest too early.  Sounds like the perfect poster boy for martyrdom.

TaintedAndDelish


Hopefully his religious affiliates will believe that he is going to hell for being an unfaithful muslim and for being killed by a woman. I hope they all suffer with that thought for the rest of their miserable lives. :)






gaggedLouise

#79
An ISIS-affiliated militant (a suspected terrorist) was arrested last night near the northern Swedish city of SkellefteƄ*, after he had been sought all over the country by the police. I think it's the first one of its kind linked to ISIS and getting arrested around here, and his detected presence in Sweden was one of the reasons for a raised state of alert within the cop force - the other reason was the events in Paris, of course.

The police are now saying they suspect the man was planning a terrorist strike in Stockholm.



*Dashenka, who has visited the town, pointed out to me that the name SkellefteĆ„ is quite impossible to pronounce even close to the right way for any non-Swedes; that's why I enjoy putting it here.  :D

Good girl but bad  -- Proud sister of the amazing, blackberry-sweet Violet Girl

Sometimes bound and cuntrolled, sometimes free and easy 

"I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sitting on my groceries.
Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipes"

Oniya

Several world leaders, including the French head-of-state and President Obama are now referring to ISIL as 'Daesh'.  (Yes, the article dates back a bit, and there are more recent ones, but this one gives more of the 'why'.)  There are a number of psychological points to this.

1) While still an acronym of the group's name (in Arabic), it forms a word that is less than flattering:  Depending on how it is conjugated in Arabic, it can mean anything from 'to trample down and crush' to 'a bigot who imposes his view on others.'  (Still accurate, in my opinion, but there you go.)
2) It removes the designation of 'Islamic' from the group, which helps to distance the terrorists from Muslims as a whole.  (This is similar to referring to the WBC as the 'Westboros' instead of the 'Westboro Baptist Church'.)
3) It's hard to maintain an aura of superiority and be attractive to new recruits when your name translates to 'losers'.
4) The terrorists don't like it. 
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17


TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Oniya on November 20, 2015, 09:29:00 AM
Several world leaders, including the French head-of-state and President Obama are now referring to ISIL as 'Daesh'.  (Yes, the article dates back a bit, and there are more recent ones, but this one gives more of the 'why'.)  There are a number of psychological points to this.

1) While still an acronym of the group's name (in Arabic), it forms a word that is less than flattering:  Depending on how it is conjugated in Arabic, it can mean anything from 'to trample down and crush' to 'a bigot who imposes his view on others.'  (Still accurate, in my opinion, but there you go.)
2) It removes the designation of 'Islamic' from the group, which helps to distance the terrorists from Muslims as a whole.  (This is similar to referring to the WBC as the 'Westboros' instead of the 'Westboro Baptist Church'.)
3) It's hard to maintain an aura of superiority and be attractive to new recruits when your name translates to 'losers'.
4) The terrorists don't like it.

Is 4) actually that accurate, though? While I would not, under most circumstance, be citing Cracked.com as a reliable source, they do run 'serious' articles once in a while, and there was a recent one related to this.
7 Things I Learned Reading ISIS Propaganda Magazines.

It's under #6 where he discusses their matter-of-fact dismissal of the 'Daesh' nickname, at least internally. Maybe it feels better for outsiders to call them that regarding points 1 and 2, but unless the article author was drastically misreading it, 3 and 4 don't seem to matter; they obviously dont call themselves that, so it doesn't get used in their own recruitment efforts, and they aren't bothered by the insulting nicknames given by their enemies.

Oniya

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on November 21, 2015, 04:12:18 PM
Is 4) actually that accurate, though? While I would not, under most circumstance, be citing Cracked.com as a reliable source, they do run 'serious' articles once in a while, and there was a recent one related to this.
7 Things I Learned Reading ISIS Propaganda Magazines.

It's under #6 where he discusses their matter-of-fact dismissal of the 'Daesh' nickname, at least internally. Maybe it feels better for outsiders to call them that regarding points 1 and 2, but unless the article author was drastically misreading it, 3 and 4 don't seem to matter; they obviously dont call themselves that, so it doesn't get used in their own recruitment efforts, and they aren't bothered by the insulting nicknames given by their enemies.

The AP got information that they aren't quite so dismissive of it.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4570385,00.html

QuoteSeveral residents in Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city which fell to the extremist group in June, told The Associated Press that the militants threatened to cut the tongue of anyone who publicly used the acronym Daesh, instead of referring to the group by its full name, saying it shows defiance and disrespect. The residents spoke anonymously out of fear for their safety.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

TheGlyphstone

Fair enough. It is propaganda, after all, and I can see benefits in harshly punishing any sign of rebellion regardless.