[NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions

[kongming]

Heheh, NCES is so close to NCIS...

The idea:
The player characters are well known - famous even, and have for a long time been doing incredible deeds around the planes. At level 20, after all, there is little that you can't do. As such, Belial had no trouble finding out about them, and asking for their audience, to make an offer.

The deal was simple: he had a legion of devils ready to unleash in one of his usual incursions, something that would strongly affect *a* plane and cause much suffering. If the team agreed to help him, the devils would instead be sent to the Blood War, where they would probably die senseless deaths or, failing that, would achieve victories against demons - equal in evil. He also offered magical items and prestige/favours, and all they must do is first prove themselves in the testing grounds (a series of fiendish challenges), and then deal with his errant devil daughter, Fierna.

Of course, it's altogether possible that Fierna could have plans of her own - even to hire the party herself...

The system:
Dungeons and Dragons 3.X (it makes little difference)

The specifics:
Starting level is 20, using 32 point buy for ability scores.
Just about every book and supplement is allowed - check with me first. I will stab you in the face though if you want to be psionic or a warforged.
If you want to be a weird race, talk to me and we'll work out a fair way to play one rather than the retarded Savage Species rules.
I'll be setting some ballpark areas for the various numbers. I want the players to have their AC, to hit bonus etc. in those areas so that we don't end up with "One player can't hit this monster, another can't miss it".
I allow and encourage use of Gaming Den/Frank&K material.
The game will go into low Epic levels. Instead of using the normal Epic rules, I will simply say this: tell me the basic idea of what you want the character to be doing ("A grand wizard who shapes the planes!", "a thief who steals souls, minds and even loyalties", "a knight who rides a friggin dragon") and I'll make a way for you to progress and do that.
Finally, loot: you can have anything that costs 15K or less, and as many as you want. If it costs even a penny more, it's special. You may each have:
1 item worth up to 200,000 GP
2 items worth up to 100,000 GP each
5 items worth up to 50,000 GP each
10 items worth up to 20,000 GP each

Sexiness:
Some of the tasks will involve sexual elements. Have fun with it. You can use stuff from the various "Sex in D&D" sources, but we're not using the "Have sex with people" skill, nor the Appearance stat. So if you like a Book of Erotic Fantasy item, class or feat, you can use it, but taking ranks in Perform: in the bedroom is a waste of skill points. Feel free to make up your own silly ideas for feats and stuff related to kinks and things (and using them in combat) and run them by me - I once made an entire supplement all about spanking in D&D, complete with feats, spells, prestige classes, magic items, monsters and ToB manoeuvres.

[Jeramiahh]

Mm, this is a very tempting idea, though I imagine I'd be looking at several hours to piece together the character I'd want... I'm considering it, though.

[kongming]

Well, naturally I'd expect the players to take their time with character creation.

Here are the ball-park figures I'm after - this includes magic gear and 0-3 buffs at a time:

Hit Points: 150-400
Saving Throws: +20 to +30 each
Armour Class: 35-45 (flat and touch should be no worse than 20)
Total Attack Bonus: +25 to +35 (+20 to +30 if you specialise in touch attacks or flat-footed, +15 to +25 if you specialise in flat-footed touch attacks)
Save DCs of best abilities: 30-35
Skill total for your "best" skills: +30 to +50 is recommended, but this isn't such a big deal.

If your shtick is healing: you should be able to heal a minimum of 100 HP per round, as well as have the capacity to: remove poisons, diseases, negative levels, fear, paralysis, charm/domination and curses, as well as raising the dead.

If your shtick is buffing: you should be, with one round, either giving all allies around a +5 on most d20 rolls or one person a substantially larger bonus, or as much as +20 on a single d20 roll, or +50 or more to damage rolls.

If your shtick is giving numerical penalties: basically as above, but negatives.

If your shtick is dealing damage: Expect to, assuming a couple of enemies and ideal options for flanking, area effects etc., deliver an average of ~100-200 per round (including spreading it out amongst several attacks or area effects)

If your shtick is dealing status effects: you should be able to hand out a variety - charm/dominate/suggestion/fascinate, poison/disease, paralysis/petrification, blindness/deafness and so on.

If you intend on getting attacked more than everyone else: add +5 to your expected saves and AC, and +100 to your expected HP. You should probably also be carrying a 25% or 50% miss chance.

[DarkTide]

I express interest!  Give me a day or so to sort out character ideas though :D.

[Vandren]

Could be interested.  Is there any way you'd like HP rolled?

[kongming]

Ancient voodoo rituals.

Er, I mean, first level is maximum. After that, it's half the die +1, so 3 for a d4, 4 for a d6, 5 for a d8, 6 for a d10 and 7 for a d12. And if your class says you have d2, d3, d20 or d% HP, you're reading it wrong ;)

[TheVillain]

Alright, I'm thinking I'll toss in my hat- and if you're going to go, why go half-way?

Basic Idea- (Subject to approval of course)

Name: Oren

Race: Piper (Bastards and Bloodlines Book- Elven Mother / Satyr Father)

Class: 2 Piper / 3 "Paladin of Freedom" / 10 Cleric (Freedom) / 5 Disciple of Aaluran

Bio: Born from a brief lustful tryst between his parents, Oren would grow up to become known as the 'Paladin of Freedom' (in spirit if not mechanically). Almost the epitome of Chaotic Good, his adventures in liberating the weak and oppressed have become the stuff of legends. A close second being his eye for women, as rumors to his skill as a lover and volcanic sex drive have been making the rounds as well.
This has recently led to a new complication in his life. Male pipers are known to be sterile, a common malady of many male crossbreeds in general. This fact was something Oren has taken advantage of quite thoroughly over the years. Now he's just learned that he's given so much pleasure to so many women of so many races over his adventuring career that in the eyes of the chaotic good hermaphrodite god of passion Aaluran he's considered one of the deity's mortal champions. Aaluran has cured Oren of his sterility and has declared that any child fathered by Oren from love or mutual lust will be considered a blessed soul in the deity's sight. Naturally, he's a little weary of bridling unsuspecting women with unexpected pregnancies, but a bunch of good weavers of divine magic down the line does have it's appeal.
Accepting the offer from the devil lord thinking of the well-being of the common people, the whole 'deal with a devil' doesn't sit with him very well- but it's better then any alternatives he can think of.

[kongming]

Yeah, that sounds fine.

And just for the record, anyone worrying about pacts and that needn't: it's not a traditional deal with a devil - you're getting paid for services rendered, and the benefits for doing so are far reaching on at least one plane. The actions are clearly good. This isn't "hey, want a power boost? Just sign here" kind of thing, so it doesn't involve alignment changes, future obligations and so on.

[TheVillain]

That's cool. Still wouldn't sit well with Oren though. Maybe he'll think of a way to double-cross the villains?

:P

[Darkforged Dove]

Oh damn. I want into this game. I haven't even read anything aside from knowing that you're running an epic 3.5 game.

What I'm thinking is..... a persistant spells buffed Archivist 7-ish/Church Inquisitor X/The PrC that gives you a Domain/Radiant Servant of Blargh (gives martial and full armour proficiencies)/Witch Hunter X.

Alternately, how is the RoW Fighter's item creation level 7 ability going to work? Right now they'd be able to make anything that has a CL of 23 (assuming someone has the spells to lend; or I ... you know, beat the spell out of a Djinni).

Because, I've got a singing warrior sage that has a knack for utterly murdering the largest creatures in the game. Well, creatures with massive amounts of Hit Dice. Since he's a multiple Con damage per round damage dealer.

If you're going to allow Fighters to build gear by buying a scroll and having high enough ranks in Craft, all I can say, is

Fighter 1/Bard 1/Monk 1/Fighter 2-11 was the character, for an other game that was lvl 14. In this case, he'd be 18 Fighter/1 monk/1 Bard. I'd probably ask for either new fighter abilties or monk fighting styles.

Hmm.... a fighter, who's a wizard level genius, and has barbarian levels of killing power*. As long as I don't have to make a Knowledge (Religion) check for any "sexiness" parts, everything should be fine....well, with the sole exception of vampires being okay for Knowledge (Religion) checks. I'm just not vurry keen on undead (or most Aberrations for that matter.... frankly most anything that's the wrong size, and not humanoid).

On the upside, I'll be playing a character who can deal 38 damage per attack with his bare fingertips alone (and an attack roll of 10 + non BaB bonuses). If he power attacks for full.

Also, how do you feel about Frost Oil (the alchemical opposite of Alchemist's Fire; basically Cold damage, instead of fire)? b/c this "fighter" type is able to go the Acid/Fire/Cold lobber route as well.

Some other things:

The "Intelligent Fighter" feat, that lets you use int for attack rolls, go or no go?

Spider Silk Armour? The original reason that I went for this build was that Spider Silk was a heavy armour that was good for sneaking in, so I kept looking for ways to turn this character into a very well rounded "heavy ninja" type character. Covered in armour, a good slew of knowledge checks good enough to embarrass some wizards; spot/listen/hide/move silently checks that would make a rogue take notice, and enough damage to make a Barbarian soil themselves when they see a level 7 version of this character rape an Treent in one round; and a Conflagration Ooze (MM3) the very next (CR 8 Trent, and CR 7 Ooze).

Mind you bonus damage b/c of weakness to fire, and weakness to cold is what did the damage that made it from being a "near thing" into a "one round kill". Against other creatures, the fights would have lasted longer.

*: Note, this is not damage, just killing power. He dropped a 48 HD water elemental before his round even started via AoOs, and wasn't even harmed by the creature; this was at level 14, and his weapons couldn't bypass the elemental's natural DR (a huge killer for attacks that are many, but small)).

Of course, the idea was to create the most well rounded and powerful non-caster possible. It could hide well, tank well, snipe well, and make a large number of noticable and crucial skill checks.

[kongming]

Okay, assuming everyone who expressed interest is still in, I'll tentatively call the game full now. So that's Jera, Darktide, Vandren, The Villain and Dove.

Now...

a persistant spells buffed Archivist 7-ish/Church Inquisitor X/The PrC that gives you a Domain/Radiant Servant of Blargh (gives martial and full armour proficiencies)/Witch Hunter X.

Sure, if you can fit it into the 20 levels. Just keep it within the numbers I listed - no overshooting them.

Alternately, how is the RoW Fighter's item creation level 7 ability going to work?

Honestly I don't want to have to deal with Item Creation - it means either having to track XP separately for everyone, or having to make most things rushed with time limits so that artificial crafting restrictions are in play. I'd rather just say "People, you get what you're given and you'll like it". Considering that payment will generally be in the form of pure hope, essence of Chaos and so on (which you then trade out for level-appropriate gear), being able to customise won't be a big deal.

So you can do the fighter multiclass character, just... please don't go the crafting route. And keep in mind that the numbers I provided aren't only minimums, there are maximums too. The point was to try to keep all PCs in the same ballpark.

Also, how do you feel about Frost Oil (the alchemical opposite of Alchemist's Fire; basically Cold damage, instead of fire)? b/c this "fighter" type is able to go the Acid/Fire/Cold lobber route as well.

Some other things:

The "Intelligent Fighter" feat, that lets you use int for attack rolls, go or no go?

Spider Silk Armour?

Frost Oil is fine. One of the books has it listed as Coldfire or something.

The Intelligent Fighter feat is fine.

Spider Silk Armour? Since when was that heavy? Last I checked it was a Light Armour with a very high Max Dex, basically no skill penalty or ASF and a fairly small (+3?) armour bonus.

[Darkforged Dove]

Silk Steel is what I was thinking about.

I'll dig up my old fighter and have to update him. On the other hand the Roland Fist of the North character build/idea is one that I've always wanted to see in play, since the Fist of the North character used the Chameleon class for the bulk of its powers.

[TheVillain]

Think it got caught in the site cleaning.

Where will we make the sheets?

[kongming]

Wherever you like - posting them up here, using the various websites that host them and linking here, doesn't matter.

[Vandren]

Sorry, due to offline stuff, I think I'm out.

[TheVillain]

All right, I have everything done except items- for which I'm needing a ruling. This sounds like it will be fun.

[kongming]

That's okay, Vandren, take care.

We still have four people, at least in theory, so I can accept one more but likewise can start with four - either way works.

[TheVillain]

Here is sheet. I think.

[Darkforged Dove]

Wait, I just realized that our budget is this:

1 item worth up to 200,000 GP
2 items worth up to 100,000 GP each
5 items worth up to 50,000 GP each
10 items worth up to 20,000 GP each

I somehow thought that each of those was a specific option that we had to pick one of.

So.... any number of 15k or less GP items; and 18 other items, over 15k; is that right?

[Darkforged Dove]

Hmm, for my 200k item, a weapon in this case; how would a Truebane (+3), Metalline (+2), Wounding (+2), Extending (+1) Aurorum Kusari-Gama work?

Also... we're building pretty general characters, right? We won't be facing things like a dungeon of only undead, or only elementals, and not somehow know about it, are we?

There's lots of cheap things that can fit the bill; and I'll probably carry a 10-foot hole with a good mix of bane weapons of different materials. Plus alchemist's fire and other supplies. Basically, the character carries a storage shed's worth of stuff in his portable hole because they installed a custom-made set of wooden shelves and boxes to store all of their gear, plus tons of supplies, with them at all times.

I got the idea from a level 4 game, and asked for a portable hole to store the 100's of bottles of flasks of oil that I bought, and changed into "make-shift" firebombs that are 1/10th the cost of a normal alchemist's fire.

[kongming]

Yeah, it's all of the above, not just one option.

So... I don't know what Truebane or Metalline do, or the Aurorum metal type. Tell me those and you'll probably get the go-ahead.

And yeah, if people want to take Handy Haversacks with 1 each of Silver, Cold Iron and Adamantium x 1 each of Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing x 1 of each +1 Bane then they totally can. But I'm not saying that'll be more useful than focusing on the one weapon or whatever.

Oil flasks can indeed work as Alchemist Oil, however there is a chance that they won't ignite. Not that that's relevant in this game, because you can have as much Alchemist Oil as you like, but just so you know that.

Yes, it's pretty general. I will hint that Evil Outsiders are likely to be the majority of things you need to fight. But not the only things.

[TheVillain]

Just thought I'd add that I'd forgotten spell components but I remembered them now. Looks like Oren is a healer, for those keeping track at home.

[Darkforged Dove]

Don't worry, I'm going to be playing Merhault. Merhault is.... if anything, a one man party. It's how I introduced him to the PCs the first time around. With access to wands, and scrolls, there's very little that this character can't eventually deal with.

Well... Truebane is "bane versus whatever"; Metalline is "change to be any metal"; Aurorum is a "Book of Exalted Furries" metal that fixes itself if broken. Basically, it's a weapon that can bypass the DR of anything except Yugoloths, Demodands and Elementals.

Getting... a +1 Evil Outsiderbane, Lawful Outsiderbane Silver Bastard sword; and a +1 Evil Outsiderbane, ChaoticOutsiderbane Steel Bastard sword might be handy. They'd be +3 weapon... that's only 18k, not bad. Dropping two of my 50k slots to get a pair of +1 Aurorum, Metalline (+2), Holy (+2) bastard swords. Would let me bypass most evil, and material DRs. On the other hand, getting basic Bane weapons is also a good idea.

I'll probably buy my weapons last, and look at other gear first. Flying is pretty important; as is not getting hit (displacement/concealment gear); and jacking my saves up.

Also, how are weapon/armour costs going to be calculated? The total cost of the weapon, or on the cost of each thing that is added to it? So... a +3 Weapon is 18k; but if it's Adamantine, or has something like "Hideaway" (a 7,500 non-plus ability, that makes a weapon easy to hide), that brings it over a threshhold, is it now over the threshold? or not?

Hideaway
(Races of the Elf(s) p171)
Any Weapon
As a Free Action, the weapon transforms into a cylinder small
enough to fit in the wielder’s hand (+2 Circumstance bonus to
Sleight of Hand checks to conceal it).
The weapon can be restored to its normal size as a Free Action.
Faint
Abj 5 Craft Arms & Armor Shrink Item
+7,500 gp

Or would the total cost need to be caculated, or would each component of an item that can be seperated from an item be calculated seperately? Since something like Hideaway can be added to a weapon, after it is built, and still will only cost 7,500 gp to add.

Oh, here's an item to run by you; Suspension Spheres. They're basically contained fireballs that you throw and create blasts on impact. In some ways they'll deal more damage, if there's say, a crowd. But they can very well also deal less damage; since I can't deal Con damage, nor apply my BaB twice to these ranged attacks.

Suspension Sphere –
Acid - Cold - Fire - Electricity
(DR313 p56)
6” diameter glass sphere containing
shimmering acid.
On impact, the sphere breaks, causing 10d6
[Energy] damage in a 30’ radius Spread (Ref½
DC15).
Single use.
—
Combo Single Use Offense
Mod Evoc 10 Craft Wondrous Item
Acid Fog  1,500 gp

Also, we're in the Wish Economy, right? Does that affect our stats?

[kongming]

Dove: they all look fine to me, then.

Yeah, I forgot Wishes can do that. So everyone may as well say "I Wished my stats up" and gain +5 to all of their ability scores. Merry Christmas.

Villain: Oren looks good. Some of the numbers are barely less than the ballpark, but not enough to make a difference (for example one save being +19 when I put +20 as the ballpark minimum) - and if you apply the "I wish to be stronger, faster, tougher, smarter, wiser and prettier" bonus, he should be just fine. The character himself seems very cool.

I look forward to getting started. The others would be wise to get to work.

[TheVillain]

Wait, so the +5 to every stat is serious?

. . .I'm not going to argue with this.

[Darkforged Dove]

Welcome to the Wish Economy.

You entered it as soon as you could cast Planeshift and beat the shit out of sniveling Efreeti under your iron treads. No, you do not "stab them in the face", you beat them up. If you stabbed them in the face, then they can't go "oh please! please! anything! just don't beat me any more! I'll even grant you wishes!"; and that's precisely what happens. If you're nice, you let them create a massive gem worth 25,000 gp, and give it to them for their troubles. Which will start again once 24 hours pass, and you want to milk the Efreeti for some more wishes.

Or.... if you happen to be an intelligent raccoon druid, and a baby-bullette riding gargoyle paladin, and you "just so happen" to score a room full of emeralds from a Nalfeshnee overlord (mayor) for "services rendered" and "company provided"; and then you hired a Cleric to just gate in a bunch of Noble Djinni.

That can work as well.

My gaming group has sickeningly huge amounts of humanism, generosity, respect for creatures of all levels of intelligence and willingness to not kill other creatures whenever there's no reason to do so. I blame myself for fostering all of those character traits, both when I GM or play.

Hmm, looking at my character sheet so far, I have some stuff to put in, and I need to re-do his stats, and I've got a list of "wooden nickel" gear that's uhm... a bit long (folding boats, oars of speed, wooly hats of breathing air, survival pouches, boxes that make food, magical sleeping bags; a stone warhorse, and little magical horsie shoes for making it fly....

Shit, the idea of a flying horsie gave me an idea. I should get Command, and make an NPC mount for my cohort. A flying horsie is a good opportunity to introduce Phrennzy, the Asperii barbarian, who is a pretty, pretty, horsie. That likes boy horsies. Who is also a boy. He'll have a massive pile of rage dice, 3 natural attacks, able to fly naturally, and can easily fit in a few awesome feats. I'd make him look all dark though, Adamanitine barding is sort of awesome if you're a Blitzing Barbarian... .... gay flying ponie... with a crazy man that thinks they're a spider riding on your back.

Or... I could have Needleteeth as a cohort. Which would make sense since Merhault is awesome, but he's also insane, and a curmudgeon like Needleteeth can come in handy... but Needleteeth is fucking creepy, and this is coming from the person who made him up too. >_>

[kongming]

Dove: I'm going to nod and smile for most of what you said there.

Jera and DarkTide: you two still interested?

[Darkforged Dove]

I'm a giant juggernaut o' text here, but then, you already knew that, didn't you?

Some further questions:

Feats

The Painmonger feat that was once written up; is it alright? I've never had a chance to try it out.

Also, Mental Weaponry, and Mental Armour feats. Are they okay?

Yes, I want to get 3 Concentration-based skill feats on a non-spellcaster. They'll give him a tons of resilience, and better damage.

Gear

Starmantle Cloak it's 125k; non-magic weapons/missles deal no damage; magical melee attacks and magical missiles allow me a DC 15 reflex to dodge and save for half damage. Yes, acid flasks and all that shit deals no damage. It's the most awesome item for the party tank to wear.

1) Does this affect spell/i] ranged touch attacks, since they are "magical missles" (and with this characters saves; and feats, he can probably march against almost any army with impunity. His reflex saves are Tumble checks; and his saving throws against effects that kill him outright can be replaced with concentration checks.

because

2) This isn't perfect. Natural attacks still get you, so normal stuff like miss-chance or being always invisible is key

TL;DR: Immune to mundane attack; weak to natural attacks; DC 15 vs Magical attack, will you let take 1/2 damage. Will you let stuff like the an Orb or Ray spell be dodgeable with this item, since they're Magical Missiles?

Starmantle Cloak
(BoED p116)
Black cloak with tiny stars.
Gives off light as a torch.

Non-magic weapons & missiles that hit the
wearer are destroyed & do no damage.
If hit by a magic weapon or missile, the
wearer gets a Reflex save vs. DC 15 for ½
damage.

Location: Back
Type: Spell Effect
Magic: Mod Abj
Caster Level: 11
Req: Craft Wondrous Item, Starmantle , 66,000 gp 5,280 xp
Market Value: 132,000

Whip-Daggers: They're just like whips, with 15' of range, always count as threatening the region that you can reach with them, and count as ranged weapons that you can use in melee.

Do you mind them showing up in both bladed, and blunt-weight tipped versions?

(TLDR: will you allow me to deal slashing/bludgeoning damage with a 'ranged' weapon that goes to 15 feet, and can be used at melee range?)


Spell Effects

Also, how is displacement/concealment going to stack? In order that effects were cast, or what? Can a person cast Mirror Image; get 5 illusions; and then cast Imp. Invis. so that they go invisible; while the illusions remain; and keep acting like decoys? So, it's first 5 of your doubles have to be seen through, before people realize that you're not really there?

Damage Dealt

Through a combination of a few feats... okay, a bunch of feats, I'm looking at what could be a big number per swing.

Feats: Blitz: +19 damage; Point Blank Shot: +19; Painmonger: +23; Mental Weaponry: +24; with a whip-dagger; that's +1d6

84 + 1d6
+2 Combat School
+8 Int Modifier (Intelligent Fighter)
+1 Subtle Cut
=95 + 1d6 damage

Per swing. In Force damage. With TWF, and BaB of 19; that's 8 attacks per round; some more if Haste occurs. Per round this guy can deal 760 damage; or 190 to anything and everything in a 30' wide swathe along a distance that I'm charging through.

Yes, I got him near infinite flying to make sure that this guys damage remains high. It's on Hippogriffs, but at 10k each, and able to be carried in 1" long statuettes, I don't see how my character can't keep reaching into a of holding bag stuffed with Hippogriffs and keep summoning more.

[kongming]

1.Where did those three feats end up?

2. Not the DC 15 save, that's just plain retarded. You can take damage as normal from anything magical. Actually, I'll let it provide DR 15/- and Universal Energy Resistance 15 against magical weapons/effects.

3. Whip-daggers of bludgeoning and slashing types are fine, but it sounds retarded. Call them knouts or scourges or something. Seriously, if you've seen a Russian knout (and heard the tales of executions back in the Sovjet era), you'll believe that some whips can deal real damage even against armoured foes.

4. Displacement/Concealment combined just ups the miss chance, though it caps out at 50% so you're wasting your time on enemies that are affected equally by both. However, these types of spells all affect you in order of casting. Mirror Images, as it states in the description, all look like you and move as you do, etc. So what'd actually happen is they'd all turn invisible.

5. Read the goddamn ballpark figures again. Those are not only minimums. I am not dropping Paragon Hellfire Engines for you to fight while everyone else takes on CR 20 enemies.

[Muse]

kong-chan!  *pounce!*  Why didn't you tell me you were doing anythin this cool! 

[kongming]

Actually, I was just about to go through a list of people who I know like D&D. Excellent, THIS MEANS YOU ARE IN AND CAN NOT BACK OUT NOW, HAHAHA.

[Darkforged Dove]

1.Where did those three feats end up?

I'll post them at the end

2. Not the DC 15 save, that's just plain retarded. You can take damage as normal from anything magical. Actually, I'll let it provide DR 15/- and Universal Energy Resistance 15 against magical weapons/effects.

The DC 15 reflex save is awesome though. It should be noted that Spells and Natural Attacks ignore this item completely. Blowing 132k GP for immunity to weapon attacks isn't a huge deal; I mean... we're level 20 right? Only other adventurers, or mooks will carry weapons at this level, right? Playing in Ubernoob's level 14 game has me much more frightened of natural weapons than anything else really; the elementals in his game had Weetodd-Str, and could scatter the PCs in all directions with their slam attacks.

Your game, so your rules though; the DR 15/- and ER 15/All is pretty handy. Great Fortitude pushes that to DR 20/-; and Painmonger brings it up to 31/-. Which isn't too bad for level 20, I might even survive a dragon's full attack sequence for a single round. Might being the operative word, not survive.


3. Whip-daggers of bludgeoning and slashing types are fine, but it sounds retarded. Call them knouts or scourges or something. Seriously, if you've seen a Russian knout (and heard the tales of executions back in the Sovjet era), you'll believe that some whips can deal real damage even against armoured foes.

Yeah, the Roman legions had this thing with beating troops that slept on guard duty. To death. With a length of grape vine. It was apparently a really shitty, painful, and long way to die. People always seem to think Indiana Jones when they hear the word "whip"; Dr. Jones used a bull whip, for taming animals. A completely non-combat thing that was meant so sound scary.

In any case I'll call them........








Penalores, because they.. uhm... penalize the people that they hit. With shame.... and death. Not because I want them to mock the fact that most in-game weapons are penis extensions by default.

4. Displacement/Concealment combined just ups the miss chance, though it caps out at 50% so you're wasting your time on enemies that are affected equally by both. However, these types of spells all affect you in order of casting. Mirror Images, as it states in the description, all look like you and move as you do, etc. So what'd actually happen is they'd all turn invisible.

Goddamnit. Wait. That's actually good. It means that my Illusionarry copies have +40 to their hide checks; and that people need to succeed on hide and listen checks before they can detect any of us. That's actually good. Really good.

5. Read the goddamn ballpark figures again. Those are not only minimums. I am not dropping Paragon Hellfire Engines for you to fight while everyone else takes on CR 20 enemies.

=^-^=

I got you upset before the game even started. Ok, knowing that I don't need to bring -that- much damage; I can drop feats that I don't care about; or not use bonus damage sources that I don't need. Also... I don't know what a Hellfire Engine is, but am intrigued.

Also... whoops. I looked up that Great Wyrm Red Dragon again; while they can grapple-pwn my fighter, my fighter can kill it in one round. It's HP and AC are low enough to have that happen.





Painmonger [Skill]

Being hurt doesn't really affect you.

Benefit: You gain Concentration as a class skill and can make Concentration checks using one of your mental ability scores [the mental ability score is selected when this feat is selected and cannot be changed without DM approval]

4: Scar Tissue: Scarred tissue is much tougher than normal tissue. Broken bones heal more solidly and stronger than unbroken bones. You gain DR X/-, where X is equal to 1/2 your ranks in Concentration. You may choose to have this ability active or not on any attack that you sustain, but must decide before the damage is determined.

Pain is nothing: Being cut, mangled, bruised, charred or frozen doesn't just harm you, it focuses your mind and actions with terrible resolve
If you do not use your Scar Tissue ability and take damage from a Physical attack or take damage from any non-Physical source, you gain +1 to all of your Attack, Caster level, Damage, Skill check and Saving Throw dice rolls for the next minute. This ability can be used more than once and the bonus increases each time you use it, your maximum bonus is equal to one half your ranks in Concentration.

9: Touch of pain: You've experienced enough pain to know how to harm others without weapons. With just a touch you can jab at nerves, punch organs close to the skin and threaten weak points such as eyes, ears or noses.
You can make touch attacks that injure. As an attack action, you may make a touch attack that deals damage equal to a concentration check. This damage may be lethal or subdual damage and bypasses no Damage Reduction unless your natural attacks can already do so. This ability only affects creatures that can feel pain.

Painful Strikes: You know how strike your enemies to really hurt them with your weapon attacks.
All of your attacks against creatures that can feel pain may deal an additional amount of damage up to your ranks in Concentration. This bonus damage cannot be multiplied or increased in any manner.

14: Internal Scars: The mental damage and traumatic events that you have been victim to, been a part of or witnessed no longer harm you the same as they would affect others.
You can make Concentration checks in place of Saving Throws against effects that would instantly kill you.

The DC of the skill check is equal to the the Saving Throw DC required to survive. If you fail the check, you instead take one point of damage per caster level of the effect that you were trying to save against (or Hit Dice of the creature that was using the ability against you) and 1d4 points of damage to one ability score (chosen by you each time this occurs).

You are immune to fear effects and enchantments.

19: Masochism: You know that pain focuses you. Now you deal it to yourself in order to be at your peak whenever you choose.
You can attack yourself up to your number of attacks per round. Attacking yourself in this manner is a non-action that provokes attacks of opportunity per attack that you perform on yourself. Your bonus to dice rolls granted by your Pain is nothing ability is equal to the damage that you take on any attack, with the same limitations to the size of the bonus. 

Note: You may always choose to deal minimal damage (1 damage) on any attack that you do. This rule does not usually get mentioned because usually you want to deal the most damage possible.


Mental Weaponry [Skill: Concentration]

Benefit: As an free action action, you may create any melee or thrown weapon or weapons which you are proficient with in your main hand and/or your off hand(s). You may only do create a Mental Weapon once per attack that you make.

This weapon or weapons have all the attributes of the original and deal damage as if they were a normal weapon of it's type. You may dismiss these weapons as a free action. If any weapon ever leaves your grasp or is destroyed, it dissipates until you create a new one.

It has a hardness and hit point value equal to what normal weapon that you are creating would have. A mental weapon cannot be augmented by any spell that affects real weapons, however it may be damaged or destroyed by abilities that would affect an object.

Your Mental Weaponry, or any melee or thrown weapon you wield, counts as it were a Magic weapon, or as if you had cast Greater Magic Weapon with a caster level equal to your character level. The benefits of this feat dissipate if a wielded weapon is wielded by an other creature and do not apply to wielded ranged weapon attacks such as bows or crossbows, unless they are used as melee weapons.

Concentration also becomes a class skill for you at all levels.

This ability is based of of your ranks in the Concentration Skill as noted below.

Ranks: Benefit

4: You can ranged attacks with your Mental Weapons or wielded weapons. If the weapon you wish to attack with does not normally have a range increment, it now has a range increment of 10 feet. The Mental Weapons or wielded weapon never actually leaves your hand, you simply can make ranged attacks with it instead of melee attacks. In addition, your Mental Weapon and wielded weapons deal 1 additional point of damage per 2 ranks you have in the Concentration Skill.

9: Your Mental Weaponry and Wielded weapon is treated as though it were a Force effect and it deal Force damage. [Note: this is now an energy type and thus bypasses DR and Hardness, it can also hit incorporeal targets]

14: With Mental Weaponry and wielded weapons, your range increments with your thrown attacks doubles, your reach with melee attacks increases by 5 feet. In addition your Mental Weaponry deals extra damage per hit equal to your ranks in concentration; this replaces the similar benefit gained at 4 ranks in concentration.

19: Your Mental Weaponry can strike targets with Touch Attacks you only can deal any damage that this feat gives you, plus precision damage of any kind, strength, power attack, blitz, rage dice and similar abilities cannot be used in order to deal damage if you use your Mental Weaponry as a touch attack.

Your wielded weapons may perform touch attacks as well, and while they may still affect attacked creatures with their special effects, they are restricted by with the same restrictions as your Mental Weaponry would have regarding extra damage.

Special: A Samurai may use one set of Mental Weapons as his ancestral weapon, as long as its form is exalted by the Samurai's warrior culture. The Samurai may select more than one weapon to qualify; however all weapons thus chosen must be weapons that he can wield at the same time. Thus a Daisho (Katana and Wakisashi) is permissable for most creatures that can use two weapons. A Glaive and a Greatsword are not, unless the creature can wield both at the same time.

Mental Armour[Skill: Concentration]

Benefit: As an free action action, you may create a suit of armour around yourself as a full-round action, that appears like whatever type of armour you want it to look like. Cannot use this ability if you are already wearing armour. You gain an Armour Bonus of 4 + 1/2 your Ranks in the Concentration skill.

This armour is obvious, and faintly glows and glows with a soft light around you in a colour of your choice, or pale white. Suppressing this effect is a non-action. You may also wear other armour while your Mental Armour and Mental Sheild are active. The Bonuses to Armour Class is +1 when you wear an real suit of armour.

Concentration also becomes a class skill for you at all levels.

This ability is based of of your ranks in the Concentration Skill as noted below.

Ranks: Benefit

4: Your Mental Armour takes a standard action to appear. You can manifest a sheild if you are not carrying one, and it manifests when you summon your Mental Armour, or as a free action if your armour is already active, the Sheild bonus to AC is 1 + 1/2 your ranks in Concentration.

9: Your Mental Armour, and sheild, takes a swift action to summon. Its Armour Class also now applies against Touch attacks.

The Bonuses to Armour Class and Sheild Armour Class are +4 and +2 Respectively when you wear an real suit of armour and carry a real sheild.

14: Your Mental Armour, and sheild, can be summoned as an Immediate action. You gain Energy Resistance Equal to the Armour Class that the Mental Armour provides. This does not stack with any other Energy Resistance that is not Universal Energy Resistance.

The Bonuses to Armour Class and Sheild Armour Class are +6 and +3 respectively when you wear an real suit of armour or use a real sheild.

19: Your Mental Armour, and sheild, are a non-action to summon, and may be created before you are hit by an attack or effect.

The Bonuses to Armour Class and Sheild Armour Class are 2/3 of your Ranks in Concentration when you wear an real suit of armour or use a real sheild.

[kongming]

Okay, the feats are fine/cool. Just keep the numbers in mind.

Penalores sounds fine. And I kind of hope penal and penile do not have similar roots. Like, at all.

And yes, I was a bit pissed. Because I put those numbers up for a reason, and sort of expected you to know exactly why I did that (coming from TGD, where we all acknowledge that players have to be playing the same game). Note that you can even take all the random abilities and stuff and just put artificial caps on them, for all I care - as long as you stay in the limits, it's all good.

Now, to work out a race for Muse.

[Muse]

how about working out a race with me, chica? 

[kckolbe]

I'd be interested if you are still looking for more.  Looking to play a sorcerer turned Rainbow Servant, so I will be able to cast heal spells in addition to the sorcerer spell list.  Is it okay if I am below your ballpark values but have other things to make up for it?  For example, my saves are all just under 20, but I also have 30 energy resist to all.  I mean, casters are by nature more vulnerable, but have powerful spells to make up for it.

[Darkforged Dove]

Kckolbe,

You can get your saves up higher.

Greater Resistance, Spell Strike weapons; that's an easy +11 right there.

Also KcKolbe, what sort of spells are you looking to pick up overall? I've got a couple links to what I consider to be the best guides on spell choices that I've ever seen that I could show you.

Damage and.... ?

I should also note that I've got Trapfinding; Sensing, Combat/Threat awareness and Trap disabling all either solved, or greatly resolved.

Nothing that gets within 60' and means to hurt me will go unnoticed. Usually, I'd be included in "the party". So, unless people have extremely prejudiced nemesii in their background, you should be fine.

I'll probably also be doing back-up heals.


Stuff I'll be bringing to the group include:

-Trapfinding
-Scouting
-'Some' tanking; I can tank, but I'm not... ok i've got about 227 HP before buffs; but that's including a +6 item; and a +5 Inherent Bonus.
-Enough melee/ranged damage to affect terrain (760 raw; 920 with full Power attacking; so Unhewn Stone can be burrowed through at a rate of just 'over' 5' per 6 seconds; I'll be calling for a lot less damage on monsters)
-Flying
-Lots of stored supplies/gear
-Backup spell casting (buffs, haels, decursing)

[kckolbe]

I actually have +5 to saves from an item.  I'm not too worried about it right now, as I can probably get something to boost his fort save, which is all I care about.  As for spells, he has access to the healing domain, and I haven't really committed yet.  Expecting to be the generalist caster for now.

[TheVillain]

Another healer? I'd complain, but from the sound of things we might need 2. Hello.

[Darkforged Dove]

Well... the +resistance bonus is handy; but with a +1 Spell Strike weapon (Free by the way; since it's under 15k gp); with a Greater Magic Weapon cast on it; is a +5 Competence Bonus to saves; Greater Resistance you can cast off of a scroll. You'd save on an expensive magical item at the very least, plus get a slightly higher bonus. That's my thoughts on the matter at least.

I'm assuming that as a sorcerer, you'll probably use a lot of scrolls to give you more breadth to your spell list.

[GrinningHound]

Ugh...wishes.  The 9th level wizard in my tabletop group just Planar Binding'd an Efreet and abused that garbage.....why don't DM's lay the beatdown on people who try to abuse the cosmos?  Maybe the Efreeti have some sort of UBER GROUP who hunts and murders people who try to do that kind of stuff?  If I were the DM they would...   ;D

Anyway, I was just reading the thread, wishing I could play, but I'm not much for looking through books and compiling gigantic ridiculous numbers...and I've never played much past like...10th level, so I wouldn't even know where to start with these big items and stuff.

[Darkforged Dove]

Play a Races of War Barbarian. It's a snap, and you'll chew through anything no sweat. Plus you also get nice skill and gear options. Hide/Move Silently are very nice; and Adamantine armour is very handy.

Seriously, play a RoW barbarian that's level 20. I've never seen that, I'd have made one for this, but the "Merhault" character is one that I've used off and on in different games.

[kongming]

Ugh...wishes.  The 9th level wizard in my tabletop group just Planar Binding'd an Efreet and abused that garbage.....why don't DM's lay the beatdown on people who try to abuse the cosmos?

Probably because it really doesn't hurt the game (and the alternative - letting people just save up/sell all their old stuff and buy really big weapons or craft them themselves - does more damage), and helps establish the party as being beyond petty affairs of wealth at a certain level.

Seriously, ~10th level you can turn your nose up when a creepy guy offers you "more money than you could dream of" in return for slaughtering the innocent, and you can actually have dragons lying on mountains of gold (currently, a Colossal dragon doesn't have enough gold to fill a king-sized mattress for a human. So that's not even a pillow for a dragon that big).

Likewise you can have palaces of gold, with diamond windows and so on, and the players won't stop in the middle of the game to strip the walls down for wealth, and all because money no longer matters. So it helps the game, and it helps set the PCs up as AWESOME (which they are at that level. If you think they're playing Lord of the Rings at level 10, you're wrong.) and actually lets them deal with powerful beings instead of beady eyed merchants.

[Darkforged Dove]

I'll also add that the best things about using the wish economy as the standard is that you can seriously have conversastions like this:

[This happened after the PCs fought and drove off a large black dragon at level 6-ish; I played the dragon as wanting to survive the encounter. So it escaped, it wasn't killed.]

1/2 Barbarian: So.... the Dragon ran off..... what did it leave behind?

GM (me): Hmm... the hoard of gold it was on, and you guys climbed was about 15' by 15'.... so.... probably 10 million gp

1/2 Barbarian: [makes a horrible look of disgust] Out of character, I never thought I would ever say this.... but.... I don't care about the gold; what real treasure did it drop?

GM : Let's see.... some minor stuff; a suit of armour, and a magic staff of wizard spells.

1/2 Barbarian: Ohm nom nom nom nom, magic staff.

Monk (who hadn't gotten Wish econ access yet): Oh yeah! Gold!

Human Wizard; Gargoyle Paladin; Awakened Raccoon Druid: Yeah..... you can keep that man.

Monk: Yeah! I'm gonna buy some +2 stat items; and a ring of protection and shit

Rest of the party: Uhm.... all the guys we face now usually have stuff like that, and we never bother looting them anymore, they're worthless.

Monk: Well I want all of my stats higher.

Rest of PCs: If you stay on the ball, we can help you out, you're just slacking right now.

He... sort of was; I brought him to the Wish Econ after that session; I don't let players get Wish Econ at very low levels (7-ish) but around level 10 I bring everyone into it.

Having the players talk about all of the "worthless gold" that they find is actually really good for the game. It means that a lot of needless beancounting gets eliminated, and that the DM can seriously have a room studded in Emeralds, and the players won't loot it.

[kckolbe]

By the way Villain, my char heals as a secondary role if we already have a healer.  I don't have a magic weapon, and would be interested in one with a bonus to saves.  What exactly does spell strike do?

[Darkforged Dove]

Spellstrike (MIC, p44) :- **** Another winner. Better still, it does not state this has to be wielded to be used. (See your DM before spending your cash!)

http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-642656.html

It's a Magic Item Compendium ability. It's a +1 ability, that lets the owner add the bonus of the item to your saving throws. GMW is good for synergizing with this.

This costs you nearly nothing btw. It's a +2 weapon (8,000 gp), and a scroll of GMW, cast at a 20th caster level is 1,500 gp; this is one tenth the cost of the maximum value that an Efreeti can give (15,000 gp). You could easily ask for a scroll with several spells on it. Major scrolls can hold up to 6 spells on them (9,000 gp value). So you really don't need dozens of scrolls. Really, only just a few. Probably one for each big spell that you want to carry into an adventure.

The Res spells are more expensive.

[kongming]

Okay, it looks like we could have 5 players after all. This is good. And the sooner all are complete, the sooner we can begin the game. I look forward to doing this.

[kongming]

Attention, duelists! My hair is demanding all active players report in so I know what's going on! I was hoping to get things started before now...

[Darkforged Dove]

I think that I've got enough ranks in Craft to spare some towards Craft (Hair).

I'm in, and only wild grontags could pull Mer' out. Probably not though, I'm pretty sure Merhault could kill 'em.

[Bayushi]

Does this game still have room for one more?

[kongming]

Sure is - currently, I have character sheets from TheVillain and Darkforged Dove, and I'm going to prod Muse and kckolbe a bit, and a few others previously expressed interest but then dropped off the map/told me they wouldn't be playing.

I have no qualms with you joining, Akiko.

[Muse]

Kong-chan, kc is without E acess at his curent location, ad will be there for three months. 

[Bayushi]

Okay, Kongming and I worked together on this proposal... so... gonna drop it in here. This is the finished job, and the character I'm going to be playing.

Let's try this.

Image by Drow Tales

Name: Alystin Age: 98 Sex: Female Race: Drow Paragon Class: Fighter 5 (Effective Character Level 20) Alignment: Neutral Good Ethos: Follower of Eilistraee Ability Score Bonus STR 35 +12 DEX 41 +15 CON 33 +11 INT 30 +10 WIS 31 +10 CHA 37 +13 HP: 265/265 Init: +16 Speed: 90' Armor Class: 53 (10 + 12 Dex +12 Insight + 12 Luck + 7 Defence) -Flat 34 -Touch 48 Saving Throws: FORT +30 REF +31 WILL +26 BAB: +5 -Melee +45 -Range +45 Weapon: Weapon Bonus Damage Critical Range Weight Size Type Special Jallil`s Tsoss +45 1d8+38 19-20 x2 - 4 lbs Medium Slashing +5 Vorpal Longsword FEATS & SPECIAL ABILITIES: Color Darkvision[Drow] You can see color with your darkvision. Prerequisite: Darkvision. Benefit: You can distuinguish colors with your darkvision as though it were normal vision. Normal: Darkvision is normally black and white only. Blind Fight Benefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit. An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however. You take only half the usual penalty to speed for being unable to see. Darkness and poor visibility in general reduces your speed to three-quarters normal, instead of one-half. Normal: Regular attack roll modifiers for invisible attackers trying to hit you apply, and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC. The speed reduction for darkness and poor visibility also applies. Special: The Blind-Fight feat is of no use against a character who is the subject of a blink spell. A fighter may select Blind-Fight as one of his fighter bonus feats. Fatal Fire Your faerie fire spells deal damage. Prerequisite: Ability to cast faerie fire. Benefit: When you cast the faerie fire spell, creatures in its area take 1d4 points of fire damage plus 1 point per level (to a maximum of +5). Affected creatures receive a Reflex saving throw to take half damage, but they are still outlined by the normal effects of the spell. This applies both when you use your faerie fire spell-like ability and if you cast faerie fire as a spell. Special: You can use this feat with the Wide Fire feat(see that entry) to deal damage to creatures in up to a 20-foot-radius area. Darksight[Drow] You can see normally into and beyond darkness spells. Prerequisites: Blind-Fight, darkvision, ability to cast darkness, SR 15+. Benefit: You see normally with your darkvision into and beyond magical darkness spells and effects (even deeper darkness), but once inside the effect's area you are affected as normal. This does not allow you to see through spells rendered dark by the Dark Spell feat. This is a supernatural ability. Combat Reflexes[General] Benefit: You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Dexterity bonus. With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. Normal: A character without this feat can make only one attack of opportunity per round and can’t make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. Special: The Combat Reflexes feat does not allow a rogue to use her opportunist ability more than once per round. A fighter may select Combat Reflexes as one of his fighter bonus feats. Improved Combat Reflexes You exploit all your foe's mistakes. Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Combat Reflexes. Benefit: You may make several attacks of opportunity gainst the same foe, each time that opponent provokes one during the round. You still have a maximum number of attacks of opportunity equal to 1 + your Dexterity bonus. Normal: The Combat Reflexes feat allows you to make several attacks of opportunity, but you cannot make more than one attack of opportunity per foe during that round. Lightsight [Drow] You are adapted to bright light. Benefit: When abruptly exposed to bright light (such as a daylight spell), you are not blinded, nor do you suffer any penalty while operating in bright light. You are still affected normally by spell or environmental effects based on bright light that would blind or hamper a creature without light blindness. This spell does not eliminate damage due to light effects (such as searing light) -- only blindness and penalties on attacks, saves, and checks. Normal: When abruptly exposed to bright light, drow are blinded for 1 round and suffer a -1 circumstance penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks while operating in bright light. Improved Initiative [General] Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on initiative checks. Special: A fighter may select Improved Initiative as one of his fighter bonus feats. Polyglot [General] Prerequisites Int 25, Speak Language (five languages). Benefit You can speak all languages. If you are literate, you can also read and write all languages (not including magical script). Weapon Focus [General] Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat. Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1. Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon. Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon. A fighter may select Weapon Focus as one of his fighter bonus feats. He must have Weapon Focus with a weapon to gain the Weapon Specialization feat for that weapon. LONG SWORD Perfect Strike [General] You are adept at finding the most effective place to strike an opponent in melee. Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Weapon Proficiency (Selected Melee Weapon), Weapon Finesse (Selected Melee Weapon), Weapon Focus (Selected Melee Weapon), base attack bonus +3 or higher. Benefit: When wielding the selected melee weapon, you may add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to damage rolls. This feat does not help you when attacking creatures that are immune to critical hits --apply your Strength modifier to the damage roll as normal. When you make off-hand attacks with the selected weapon, add one-half your Dexterity modifier to damage instead of one-half your Strength modifier. However, when you make two-handed attacks with the selected weapon, you add only your Dexterity modifier to damage, not 1 1/2 times your Dexterity modifier. This feat cannot be applied to thrown weapon attacks. This feat may be chosen as a fighter bonus feat. Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take this feat, it must apply to a new weapon. LONG SWORD SPECIAL ABILITIES: Racial Traits Spell Resistance: 30 Immune to Sleep spells and effects. +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities. Elven Reverie Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day - dancing lights, darkness, and fairie fire. Paragon Abilities Spell-Like Abilities [Sp]: If the base creature has spell-like abilities, it gains +15 to its caster level to use those abilities. A paragon creature also gains the ability to use greater dispel magic, haste, and see invisibility three times per day, even if it did not have spell-like abilities before, at 15th caster level. Special Qualities [Ex]: A paragon creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following. Fire and cold resistance 10. If the creature already possesses such resistance, use whichever is better. Damage reduction 10/epic. If the creature already possesses damage reduction, use whichever is better. Spell resistance equal to the paragon creature’s CR +25. If the creature already possesses spell resistance, use whichever is higher. Fast healing 20. If the creature already possesses fast healing, use whichever is better. A paragon creature’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. SKILLS: Skill Skill Mod Ability Mod Ranks Other Climb 29 12 7 10 Craft(Weaponsmith) 26 10 7 10 Handle Animal 30 13 7 10 Intimidate 31 10 11 10 Jump 29 12 7 10 Listen 22.0 10 2.0 10 Ride 29 12 7 10 Search 21.5 10 1.5 10 Spot 22.0 10 2.0 10 Swim 29 12 7 10 Leftover Skill Points 24 Equip: 1 item worth up to 200,000 GP Vorpal Longsword +5, 200,000 gold pieces 2 items worth up to 100,000 GP each Instant Fortress, 55,000 gold pieces Carpet of Flying(10'x10'), 60,000 gold pieces 5 items worth up to 50,000 GP each Holy Longsword of Disruption, 50,000 gold pieces Thigh High Boots of Teleportation, 49,000 gold pieces Ring Gates, 40,000 gold pieces Bracers of Armor +7, 49,000 gold pieces Gloves of Dexterity +6, 36,000 gold pieces 10 items worth up to 20,000 GP each Iridescent Spindle Ioun Stone, 18,000 gold pieces Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, 4,000 gold pieces Portable Hole, 20,000 gold pieces Handy Haversack, 2,000 gold pieces Dark Blue Rhomboid Ioun Stone, 10,000 gold pieces Bracelet of Friends, 19,000 gold pieces Potion of Remove Curse, 750 gold pieces Potion of Remove Curse, 750 gold pieces Potion of Remove Disease, 750 gold pieces Potion of Remove Disease, 750 gold pieces Languages Drow Undercommon Drow Sign Language Draconic Abyssal Aquan Celestial Infernal Elven Planar Common Goblin Gnoll Orc

lol, FEAR the level 5 MONSTER!... err, fighter, yeah. :-p

[Muse]

*grins*  My winged nymph is in LUV! 

She's cool Akiko-chan! 

[kongming]

Awesome.

So, we have three players/characters ready.
Muse should get his winged nymph ready to play.

Then I'll start things off - kckolbe can join when he gets back, but I don't want to delay the game for a period of months.

[Mindhazingsquid]

If I made a dragon 'tank' (read damage sink) would that be okay?  Or would that be just too weird?

[kongming]

Sure, go for it. The character level for a dragon should be around CR + 5, rather than trusting WotC to give a correct LA to anything. So if the Dragon has a CR of 15 or less, go for it (that's generally Adult/Mature Adult, though some might come in at Young Adult or Old). If it's less than 15, then add class levels on top of that.

[Darkforged Dove]

Hmm, Akiko, that's an interesting character. I'm not sure if my character would see her as a rival or as a partner. Probably both. I'm not sure how that will turn out. Interesting most likely.

[Bayushi]

If I made a dragon 'tank' (read damage sink) would that be okay?  Or would that be just too weird?

Only thing I see is that it might be easiest if you tried something other than 'tank', cause the nude Dark Elf seems to be doing a pretty good job of it(53 armor class and 263 hp unclothed/unarmored is absurd. I wasn't intending to build a 'twink', but holy hell, ouch).

Hmm, Akiko, that's an interesting character. I'm not sure if my character would see her as a rival or as a partner. Probably both. I'm not sure how that will turn out. Interesting most likely.

We'll see, I guess? I'm looking forward to this game, and cringing at the first time Alystin gets to make an attack of opportunity, as it'll be a long ways to go, there. 1 + Dex modifier number of Attacks of Opportunity per round? And with Improved Combat Reflexes, all of which can be applied to the same target at the same time? Are you SERIOUS?!

Can only imagine one's shoulder coming unsocketed swinging the sword that many times in such a short period of time.

:o

[Mindhazingsquid]

I might have a 'debuff' kind of build for a shadow dragon in that case.  I'm still working on equipment but I wouldn't mind help if you don't mind.  I'm mostly using the draconomicon.  Mostly I start with my 1-3 level drain breath then try to shake them with fear aura for a minimum of 4d6 rounds (not much but they're going to lose saves from level drain).
Here's what I have so far...


Name: Crepusculous
Shadow Juvenile Dragoness level 15
CE

STR   24   DEX   24   CON   25   INT   24   WIS   25   CHA   25
FORT   10+7   REF   8+7   WILL   12+7

HP   215   AC   38 (10 base, 16 natural, 7 dex, 5 armour bonus)  17 touch  31 flat footed
BAB   13   SPD   80 (land), 150 (poor) fly    INIT   0

SKILLS       Ranks   Stat   Misc   TOTAL
Hide         18     5     10 (ring)  33
Move Silent      18     5
Sense Motive      18     7
Listen         18     7
Spot         18     7
Search         18     7
Concentration      18     7
UMD         18     7
Jump         18     7
Knowledge (Arcana)18     7
Knowledge (Planes) 18     7
Knowledge (Religion)18     7
Escape Artist      18     5

Languages: Draconic, common, under common,


FEATS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Clinging Breath
3) Highten Breath
6) Recover Breath
9) Awaken Frightful Aura (dc 24, 12' radius)
12) Fast Healing (3)
15) Ability Focus (Breath)


ABILITIES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SR17
Level drain breath -2lvl/20+2 (ability focus)+x(Highten Breath) ( dc (once 1d4-1(recover breath)+x (highten breath)+1 (Clinging Breath) rounds) (30 cone)
Energy drain immune
Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination
other than full daylight, a very young or older shadow dragon
can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment.
Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell,
does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, does.
Mirror image 3/day
Blindsense
Keen Senses 60
Darkvision 120

EQUIPMENT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ring of Chameleon Power
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification (100% crit/sneak attack immunity)
Impervious Vestment (+5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster    18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier)


SPELLS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0: 5+2   1: 3+2

0:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
1:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )

Spells Known:
0: Silent Portal, Stick, Guidance, Sonic Snap
1: Buzzing Bee (dc 18), Blood wind

COMBAT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bite 1d8+7
Claw 1d6+3
Wings 1d4+3
13+7/8+7/3+7

Full attack: Claw 20 (1d6+3), Wing 15 (1d4+3), bite 10 (1d8+7)

[kongming]

Looks good so far, but I'm wondering: you chose to be a Juvenile, those are CR 8 (which would make them "level 13", allowing another 7 class levels. Alternatively an Adult is CR 13, making them level 18 for +2 class levels, and Young Adult would be somewhere between the two).

I know that means you could have more hit dice than your level, but that's okay. That would also mean you wouldn't need to spend a feat on getting the Frightful Presence.

[kongming]

As for equipment, I'd recommend:

*Stat boosters, if necessary, to get the basic numbers up
*Coating your claws, teeth and whatever in adamantine/silver/mithral/green steel then enhancing them as weapons (even just making them all +1 Spellstoring - which is cheap enough to be free - and then using the innate dragon sorcerer levels to put low level damage spells in them).
*Stocking up on various Sorcerer scrolls that you think might be useful - including the spells that alter breath weapons
*Rods of Meta Breath (25K each, each one has one Meta-Breath feat that can be used 3/day)

[Mindhazingsquid]

Looks good so far, but I'm wondering: you chose to be a Juvenile, those are CR 8 (which would make them "level 13", allowing another 7 class levels. Alternatively an Adult is CR 13, making them level 18 for +2 class levels, and Young Adult would be somewhere between the two).

I know that means you could have more hit dice than your level, but that's okay. That would also mean you wouldn't need to spend a feat on getting the Frightful Presence.

It's due to Level adjustment and juvenile is 13 hd at the start plus a +4 level adjustment.  Juvenile has four 'steps' before young adult, ending with becoming 15 hd with +5 LA that's 20.
Of course, if you really want me to be a young adult, I'm up for that!  Hah hah

As for equipment, I'd recommend:

*Stat boosters, if necessary, to get the basic numbers up
*Coating your claws, teeth and whatever in adamantine/silver/mithral/green steel then enhancing them as weapons (even just making them all +1 Spellstoring - which is cheap enough to be free - and then using the innate dragon sorcerer levels to put low level damage spells in them).
*Stocking up on various Sorcerer scrolls that you think might be useful - including the spells that alter breath weapons
*Rods of Meta Breath (25K each, each one has one Meta-Breath feat that can be used 3/day)

In reguards to coating teeth and claws, I was thinking that and meant to ask if that would be acceptable. 
Since Shadow Dragons are allowed to cast Cleric spells as well as sorcerer spells am I allowed to use cleric scrolls?  Of course, I have Use Magic Device too.  Hah
I've also already taken the best Metabreath feats I can find.  If there were one that would let me simply put holes in my breath weapon so that I don't hurt allies that would be cool but I can't find one like that.  Well, I'd take lingering breath but I'm not sure about a line, "If a creature is affected by the same nondamaging breath weapon twice, the effects do not stack.".  Is my breath damaging? (damaging levels instead of hitpoints?)  It later compares a silver dragon's cold breath vs paralize breath.  If you're already paralized you can't be paralized MORE.  That's different from my breath.
Using Metabreath rods do you still have to pay the cost in rounds?

[Darkforged Dove]

Only thing I see is that it might be easiest if you tried something other than 'tank', cause the nude Dark Elf seems to be doing a pretty good job of it(53 armor class and 263 hp unclothed/unarmored is absurd. I wasn't intending to build a 'twink', but holy hell, ouch).

We'll see, I guess? I'm looking forward to this game, and cringing at the first time Alystin gets to make an attack of opportunity, as it'll be a long ways to go, there. 1 + Dex modifier number of Attacks of Opportunity per round? And with Improved Combat Reflexes, all of which can be applied to the same target at the same time? Are you SERIOUS?!

Can only imagine one's shoulder coming unsocketed swinging the sword that many times in such a short period of time.

:o

That's not bad. I'm guessing that you've got a reach out to 30-40' right?

Right now Merhault's only pulling in 10' (Kusari-Gama) + 5' Extending (DR Something, it's a Drow ability; works on flexible or polearm weapons; not swords) +5' (Fighter 11) + 5' (Mental Weaponry); then Size benefits, if I use a Giant Size scroll. However 25' reach with no doughnut "hole" is probably more than enough. Going Large pushes me to 35' of reach; and Giant Size goes to caster limit; or less if desired. Going Colossal is a cool idea, but probably not going to be needed ever.

I'll probably make two +2 (8,000 gp) Adamantine (+trivial gp) Hideaway (+7,00 gp; trivial), Sizing (+4,000 gp;trivial) Kusari-Gamas. Hideaway and Sizing being "add-ons" don't actually increase a weapons enhancement bonus; so if they're cheap, they're free.


My own "defense" sequence is something like:

-Enemy enters within 25' of my character
-Take an AoO.... no tripping though. ... The Stand Still feat might be good though.

-When enemy approaches within attacking range
--Get attacked in melee
--Get furious charged/pounced; enemy is forced to make one attack
-Counter attack with a full attack action (8 attacks)

-Repeat until all Attacks of Opportunity are expended

Right now I've got 13 AoOs with which to spread out, at this point, I'm almost hoping that people take a swing at me.

-If I'm toe to toe with two other people that have TWF and +16 BaB (8 attacks each; that's 16 attacks in one round); I can unleash 8*14 attacks in retaliation; 104 attacks back, for every 14 taken. Damn, Counterattack is pretty awesome.

Also, for level 20... 50-ish armour and 300-ish HP is about average. In one game I was aiming to get my charater's AC into the high 40's; and instead settled for miss chance.

For Magic items,

Belt of Magnificence is an awesome all around item. +6 to all stats, belt slot, and a flat 200k. Nearly anything else of that level can be covered with scrolls and spells.

A +1 luck blade with no wishes as one of the Dragon's natural weapons would be handy, as would a +1 Defending 'claw'; cast Greater Magic Weapon to bring both to +5. Most "high end" weapons should have +9 worth of special abilities; +1 in base enhancement bonus, and a +5 thanks to a basically free casting of GMW.


Also, Scrolls with 3 Level 9 Spells, with a Caster level of 20 are only 13,500 gp. I know that I'm going to stock up. since it means that pretty much every spell is available at maximum caster level. Thank goodness for my Portable hole.... I ... might buy a second, or a belt of many pouches.

I think I'm going to need some Merciful weapons..... a merciful bow; a golembane pickaxe, and a disruption mace/club. I don't think that I'd need anything else. That's sort of an interesting prospect, a character that doesn't need many weapons, in D&D of all games.


========

Mindhazingsquid,

Kongming will confrim, but for a "Dragon" (aka, creatures with the [Awesome] subtype); you can play them using the following forumla:

1. Take Creature CR
2. If an [Awesome] Creature (Beholders, Dragons, Mindflayers, Outsiders, and most things with high level wizard-grade powers; plus other things); add +4 to the CR
3. Add +1 CR For making your charcter a PC
4. Your current CR is your "level" in D&D, if you were a PC.

LA and HD are bad ways to gauge power, and both ignore the other, which makes Mindflayer and Dragon PCs something to cry about.

Meta-breath Rods
You'll probably pay the cost in rounds for your breath weapon. There are ways to get infinite breath attacks though. I'm sure that Kongming would adjust that to "1 breath per round" or "1 breath per iterative attack" depending on how much she deigns to crush us under her power-armoured jackboots.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Alright.  I'll make changes then, thanks for your help.

Actually, I'm a little confused now.
This is the Shadow Dragon info.

Challenge Rating:Wyrmling 3; very young 4; young 6;
juvenile 8; young adult 11; adult 13; mature adult 16; old
18; very old 19; ancient 21; wyrm 22; great wyrm 24
Advancement:Wyrmling 5–6 HD; very young 8–9 HD;
young 11–12 HD; juvenile 14–15 HD; young adult
17–18 HD; adult 20–21 HD; mature adult 23–24 HD; old
26–27 HD; very old 29–30 HD; ancient 32–33 HD; wyrm
35–36 HD; great wyrm 38+ HD
Level Adjustment:Wyrmling +3;
very young +3;
young +3, juvenile
+4; others —

By your ruling I'd be 20 or 21 hd?
(adult 13+5=18, adult 20–21 HD)
And with 2 extra 'levels' or crs? so my next 'level' I'd become Mature Adult?

How do I figure out my extra feats and attribute points now?

[Darkforged Dove]

I think a safe bet would be to do the following:

1. Use the CR 16 Dragon's stats, as they are.
2. Give yourself 20 or 21 HD
3. You count as CR 20 now.

The way that I'm calculating this is is like follows:

CR 16 = 23-24 HD

Every 2 HD added to a Dragon adds +1 CR; so we'll strip off some HD instead. It's not clean, but it works.

Oh, and use the stats as-is for the creature.

If you want to find out the Stat Mods for the creature, subtract 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 from the Dragon's stats; with 15 being subtracted from the largest stat, and working your way down; Round ability stat mods down to nearest multiple of 2(negative mods up to multiple of 2), and CRs down to nearest whole number.

My source. Kong already knows it. Also.... I wonder what a game of only dragons would be like. Usually I can't stand the idea of them, and nearly never use them in my own games. However, the idea of being a dragon is kind of cool.

Converting Monsters Into Characters:
Method 1: The Easy Way
Assume that a monster is a character of its CR+1 (modified if it it's a monster with the [Awesome] tag), and that its stat modifiers are derived from the assumption that the base monster was built using the Elite Array (highest monster stat – highest elite stat, then repeat for next lowest, etc). For level-dependant effects like skill point maxes, feat prereqs, etc, use the monster’s CR+1. Round ability stat mods down to nearest multiple of 2(negative mods up to multiple of 2), and CRs down to nearest whole number.

The nice part of this method is that it is easy, fast, and you can get to playing a monster immediately without as lot of DM intervention or paperwork. The downside is that you might get an underpowered or overpowered monster character if you are not careful (like you forgot that Dragons are actually CRed two less than they should be, or that Sprites are unplayable).

Hmm, dragons are said to be CR'd 2 less than they should be. Eh, w/e, it's a sliding scale I find. At low levels, they are at most +1 CR; and at higher levels seem more like CR + 4 (before anything else).

I hope that this helps. Kong will either bust my ankles by tomorrow, or will say that I said something without making her brain cry.

[Mindhazingsquid]

So, I'd be

                                                                                                                             Breath  Frightful
                                                                         Base Attack/             Fort Ref Will     Weapon Presence
Age           Size Hit Dice    (hp) Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha Grapple     Attack Save Save Save   (DC)      DC
Mature adult L  22d12+88 (231) 23   10  19   20  20  21  +22/+32     +27    +17  +13   +18    4(26)     26

but with 20 hd instead?  I'm not sure what you mean about the stat mods.  You mean the mods are +8, +2, +8, +6, +8, +6

[Darkforged Dove]

23 - 15 = 8
10 - 8 = 2
19 -10 = 8
20 -12 = 8
20 -13 = 6
21 -14 = 6

Yep, that looks fine.

Change the HD to 20HD + Whatever; your attacks and saves will go down a few points. Look at the 20th level monk to see what your base saves are like.

I'm guessing you also get Wish economy access; so +5 inherent bonus to stats; all items 15k gold are free; and the budget that Kongming wrote down in the starting page.

Remember, dragons are potent casters. Also, make sure that you get some good feats. You don't have many, and you've got a lot of BaB. Kong could direct you to some nice feats.

[kongming]

Okay, yeah. I think the LA/ECL system is super-bad.

So, an Adult would be "level 18" with... however many hit dice. Was it 20 or something? You can then either take additional dragon hit dice as levels (each giving the usual 1d12+Con HP, 6+Int skills, +1 BAB, all saves are Good, and +1 Natural Armour) - and then at level 21 "evolve" into the Mature Adult, or start taking class levels.

For ability scores, work them out like normal for a PC, then add (for an Adult): +8 Str, +6 Con, +10 Int, +10 Wis, +10 Cha

Now, despite the number of hit dice, for the purpose of the game you will count as though you have 20. So that means 5 ability score increases, 7 feats (unless of course you took levels in Fighter or something else that gave bonus feats), and maximum skill ranks of 23. Also your Spell Resistance is Level+10, always.

I know it's not really precise, any of this, but it puts you in the rough power level and means you're impressive-sized (no-one is scared of a dragon smaller than my dog, after all). And really, monsters are never an exact science.

Meta-Breath Rods: it was an idea, I forgot you had taken most of the good ones already (though I suppose there's still the Breath Wall and the one that grants your allies immunity?), but if you did take one, it would not affect the recharge time.

As for the stacking of Lingering, negative levels can count as damage, yeah.

Oh, and Cleric scrolls are fine, given they're on the "Shadow Dragon" class list.

[Bayushi]

Also.... I wonder what a game of only dragons would be like. Usually I can't stand the idea of them, and nearly never use them in my own games. However, the idea of being a dragon is kind of cool.

There was a second-edition AD&D campaign setting called Council of Wyrms. Most, if not all, player characters were dragons in said campaign, or a dragon's servant.

I did not get to play it terribly much, but when I did, I enjoyed it. I am not aware if the setting was ever converted to 3.x, however.

[Darkforged Dove]

Ah. I see.

It probably wouldn't be too hard. You'd just replaced every NPC with a new one. It would be pretty tedious though. While I'm fine playing a dragon (and that's a big change, since for years I've been rabidly anti-dragon in my own campaigns, never using them at all, nor having them as part of the setting); I'm not keen on converting a whole setting about dragons.

Perhaps just fluff, with 3.5 (and... some more) crunch would work.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Here is remade, pre most items.  I couldn't find a metabreath feat to allow you to ignore allies.

Crepusculous
Shadow Adult Dragoness level 20
CE  Large Size
Worships Falazur, dragon night god

STR   28   DEX   23   CON   26   INT   28   WIS   26   CHA   28
FORT   17+8   REF   13+6   WILL   18+8

HP   265   AC   44 (10 base, 25 natural, 6 dex, 5 armour bonus, -2 size)  15 touch  40 flat footed
BAB   19   SPD   80 (land), 150 (poor) fly    INIT   0   SPACE/REACH      10'/5' (10' bite)

SKILLS       Ranks   Stat   Misc   TOTAL
Hide            23     6     10 (ring)  33
Move Silent         23     6
Sense Motive         23     8
Listen            23     8
Spot            23     8
Search            23     9
Concentration         23     8
UMD            23     9
Jump            23     9
Knowledge (Arcana)      23     9
Knowledge (Planes)      23     9
Knowledge (Religion)      23     9
Escape Artist         23     6
Climb            11.5     9
Spellcraft         11.5     9

Languages: Draconic, Common, Under Common,


FEATS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Clinging Breath
3) Power Attack
6) Recover Breath
9) Rapid Strike (Wings)
12) Fast Healing (3)
15) Rapid Strike (claws)
18) Wingover


ABILITIES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SR 25
Level drain breath -3lvl/28+2 (ability focus)+x(Highten Breath) ( dc (once 1d4-1(recover breath)+x (highten breath)+1 (Clinging Breath) rounds) (40 cone)
Energy drain immune
Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination
other than full daylight, a very young or older shadow dragon
can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment.
Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell,
does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, does.
Mirror image 3/day
Blindsense
Keen Senses 60
Darkvision 120
DR 5/magic
Dimension Door 2/day
Frightful Presence: DC 29, 30Xage category
Immune Sleep, Paralysis

EQUIPMENT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ring of Chameleon Power
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification (100% crit/sneak attack immunity)
Impervious Vestment (+5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster    18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier)
(3) Rod of Metabreath (Highten Breath)

SPELLS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0: 6+3   1: 6+2   2: 4+2   3:

0:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
1:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
2:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
3:

Spells Known:
0: Silent Portal, Open/Close, Guidance, Sonic Snap, Cure Minor Wound, Detect Magic
1: Buzzing Bee (dc 18), Blood wind, Shield, Magic Missile
2: Infernal Wounds, Scintilating Scales
3:

COMBAT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bite 2D6+9
Claw 1d8+4
Wings 1d6+4
Tail Slap 1D8+9
19+9/14+9/9+9/4+9

Full attack: Bite 28 (2d6+9), Claw, 23 (1d8+4), Claw 18 (1d8+4), Wing 18 (1d6+4), Wing 13 (1d6+4), Tail 13 (1d6+9)

[kongming]

Looks pretty good to me. Just a few things...

*Upgrade the SR to 30, "just because"
*Doesn't Rapid Strike give you another claw (and wing, as you took it once for each) attack as well?
*The attack bonus for some of your natural weapons seems pretty low. Do you have a clever way around that? Then again, the breath weapon is probably your primary attack form and that's just fine.
*You still can coat natural weapons in substances so as to enhance them (+1 or +2 is cheap enough to be free by the rules this game uses. So that could be +1 Spellstoring (for a free Magic Missile damage) or +2 (for the better chance to hit) or whatever.)

But it basically looks good. Now I'm really just waiting on Muse, then we can begin.

[Mindhazingsquid]

If I didn't have rapidstrike I would only have one wing and one claw.
I plan on coating my claws and fangs (adamantium fronts?) and stuff.

My main style will be to skulk in the shadows or fly overhead and just before the part engages breath on the enemies to lower their resistance (swooping down on them from the air to get my fear as well if it's in the open) then just pester them with spells and claws and fangs and try not to die.  Hah hah
I got Scintilating scales to beef up my touch AC since it turns natural armour into deflection armour which works with touch attacks.

Err, and I just noticed I still had Power attack and that wasn't working for what I wanted so I'm going to replace that with something else.  I'll try to finish up tomorrow.

[kongming]

Possibly Multi-Attack? That way your attacks would be:

Bite +27 (2d6+9), 3 Claws, +25/+25/+20 (1d8+4), 3 Wing Attacks +25/+25/+20 (1d6+4), Tail +25 (1d6+9)

It would also enable you to, at level 21, take Multi-weapon Rend (meaning if two claws hit, you'd deal another 1d8+13 automatically)

[Chloe Milev]

Get a druid to cast Pemanancy, then Greater Magic Fang on each of your natural weapons.

*Skulks back into the shadows to watch epic game*

[Darkforged Dove]

Greater Magic Fang + Permanency

That's a good idea Chloe.

Too bad you didn't join in this game, maybe some other game, or later?

Also, Scrolls of Greater Magic Fang at 20th caster level are also available, and are a trivial cost (seeing as 9th level spells, at 20th caster level are a trivial cost (i.e. under 15k gp); every other spell is also trivial; barring expensive spell components).

It should be noted that Permanency isn't necessarily "permanent"; it's more "spell doesn't have a duration" not "spell lasts forever". Dispel magic can get rid of a Permanency'd effect. So, having a scroll as a back-up is a good idea. If anything, the scrolls can act as a "buffer" against all of your gear being rendered unmagical.

+1 weapons with a minor ability are decent; you can have as many Bane weapons as you can carry (pretty much); and as many +3 armours as you want (yes, barding, some light fort, or ghost touch might be handy for a big target like a dragon; Crepusculous' AC is 44, and her HP is under 300; so she's still hurtable). Remember, the 15k gp limit on trivial stuff means that lots of cheap, but useful things are possible.

Like summoning a squad of giant scorpions; or pulling a wand out of your boot (seriously; nearly any wand, you don't even have to plan it out, just have your lvl 20 spell caster pull out a wand, it's not a big deal and helps with the narrative for your character to not worry about every single minor item they carry).

Rings of feather fall you keep strapped to a bracelet because "you never know" when you might have to fight on a cloud, or the back of a soarwhale, or over a pit of lava; and Ioun Stones become a fashion statement, not an expression of your power (well... unless it's the Orange Spindel, and they're a wizard; then it's an extension of power).

...then we can begin.

Muahahahaha!

Ahem. I mean. Yes, excellent.

[Mindhazingsquid]

So I could have a bunch of deathward wands?  Now you guys don't need to worry about  my breath weapon!
Or would I have to carry around a bajilion scrolls?
Also, would Hoard Gullet (from Dragon Magic) break a bag of holding?  It gives you a magical second stomach that can hold 100 lb and/or 10 cubic feet per level of items.  Up to a maximum or 1000lb and 100 cubic feet.
Also, for the Necklace of Natural Weapons do I need to multiply it by 4 or 6 for the cost?
The enhancement bonuses on this necklace are applied to attack and damage rolls involving one or more of the wearer’s natural weapons.  In addition, any weapon special quality may be applied to this necklace, and the quality then applies to those natural weapons as well. For instance, a +1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons would apply its enhancement bonus and the throwing and returning special abilities to one or more of the wearer’s natural weapons.
Magic Arms and Armor; Market Price: 600 gp, plus the cost of the enhancement bonuses, multiplied by the number of natural weapons affected. A +1 necklace of natural weapons that affects one natural weapon costs 2,600 gp; if the same necklace affects six natural weapons, it costs 15,600 gp.

[Darkforged Dove]

I'm pretty sure that my character is immune to anything you can throw at him dragon-wise. Breath weapons, AC, attacks, spells, dungeon lairs, minions, draconic presense (fear).

I think that if you were a force dragon, you might give him some trouble; but raw damage is usually is pretty easy to just slide off of.

For your weapons.... I'd just say to simplify it, b/c it's too nitpicky to spend this much time to only give you a +5 to hit/damage on your 5-7 natural attacks.

"You have a bunch* of scrolls of Greater Magic Fang; you can make the caster level checks to cast them on yourself; if you're in a group that has someone you think can cast your scrolls faster, you can give them a scroll and have them buff you up."

*: That is to say, enough, that you don't have to worry about wasting a bunch of scrolls.

Because we can just do that. We're 20th level, a buff like Greater Magic Fang isn't a "massive deal", it's merely a commodity at this point. It can be safely assumed that everyone who wants it, has it.

The wands of Deathward should be trivial as well. ... you give me an idea for a spell to use though, something that just gives undead properties..... it's giving me a bit of a really bastard idea, since I know something that can make "you are an undead" really handy.

Yeah... I wanna get a pair of Life Drinkers in knifey-stabby form. Becuzz, ya' know, I gotta get mah drank on.

They're +1 magic great axes that are 40k normally. I'm sure that smaller Aurorum life-drinker daggers are fine. I've got 3 more 50k gp slots to fill though..

[kongming]

Yeah, you could totally just have X scrolls of Greater Magic Fang (CL 20) and a wand of Deathward to grant your allies immunity to your breath weapon. That's a lot cheaper than a necklace with a multiplying cost.

And yeah, I think there's also a spell that makes the target count as an undead, so if you could cast that on your allies (or they cast it themselves) then you can breath weapon everyone and enemies gain negative levels, allies get healed.

[Mindhazingsquid]

I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.  We have too much money.  Hah  I honestly can't figure out what items to get past what I already have.

I thought there was a cloak that granted energy resistance all?

Since Greater Magic Fang is per hour can we just presume that it's going unless we camp for a night then?  To get +5 I need to cast it on each limb?  Or, I guess claws and wings work as a 'set' and so only need one casting total?

These are my items so far.

Ring of Chameleon Power:+10 hide as free action, standard action use disguise self (12K)
Ring of Spell Battle:If a spell is cast within 60' wearer is informed and can make a dc15+spell level spellcraft check to ID the spell even if it can't be seen.  If spell is IDed wearer can (1/day) choose to have the ring cast dispell magic as a counterspell to that spell or change the target within 60' of the wearer (even if wearer has no counterspell ready).  If target is illegal (ie out of the spells range) it works normally and the redirect is wasted. (67.6k)
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification:100% crit/sneak attack immunity (35k)
Impervious Vestment: +5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster 18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier  (34k)
(3) Rod of Metabreath (Highten Breath) (25k)
Silver Claws +1 Spellstoring
Iron Claws +1 Spellstoring
Adamantine Fangs +1 spellstoring
Gorget of Tempest Breath:When you use your breath weapon, in addition to its normal effects, creatures in the area are affected as through struck by wind effects. The force of the wind depends on your size, as indicated below. For the effects of high winds, see Table 3–24 on page 95 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.(10k)
Belt of Hidden Pouches:Hidden inside this belt are ten small pockets, each of which seems big enough to hold only a few coins. Each pocket actually functions as a small bag of hold­ing and can hold up to 1/2 cubic foot or 5 pounds of nonliving matter. No object with any dimension exceeding 6 inches can be placed in a pocket. Anything placed inside a pocket effectively has one-tenth its normal weight, so a full pocket weighs only 1/2 pound at most.  In addition, two secret pockets lie
behind each visible one, for a total of thirty pockets in all. The hidden pockets can be accessed only through a command word.  A true seeing spell reveals the presence of the hidden pockets but not the command word needed to open them. (9k)

[Darkforged Dove]

I wouldn't say we have "too much" money. It's not like you can go choose minor artifacts and add them to your character sheet; and it's not like you can get more than one +10 weapon on any character.

What we have in terms of magic items is:

-A "selection" of real magic items (200k [x1], 100k [x2]; 50k [x5]; 20k [x10]); worth at most 850 gp; and only 1/2 of that is able to be worth over 100k.

-As many "wooden nickels" as you want. At around level 11, any item worth 15k gp is actually what the "noobs" use. Seriously. The stuff worth more than 15k cannot be ever obtained easily.

The good stuff, and why you can't buy it with gold

You can't wish for the good stuff, and no one will make it for love or gold alone. Wizards only really make one item per level that is equal to their caster level, which means that they will be very picky about what it is that they make.

The upshoot of this is that "good stuff" you need to adventure for, and then either trade what you find for stuff that you want, or trade it for currency like trapped souls and the like.

Also, at 20th level you need to get lots of use out of your "big ticket" items, if not they're actually a waste of resources. That's why I went "luls, +6 to all stats belt plz". It saves me not 1, but 5 slots; and costs less than 6, +6 stat items (in terms of both 20k item slots; and in terms of how it allows me to wear a lot more variety of magical items).

Don't sweat the small stuff; grab it all

I'd say to pick up every single "low level" magic item that you see and think of a situation where you might want to use it. You might have made a very sound tactical decision.

Myself, I grabbed some stuff to let me fly in "combat-time" (wands really, several); and in "normal time" (carpet of flying). Stuff to carry supplies and equipment (bags of holding; heward's handy haversack; vest [aka belt] of many pockets); some more random travel things (folding boat; a dozen sets of magical oars; and a bunch of Permantly Shrink Item'd stone destriders with horseshoes of the zephyr. Plus about a dozen or so other random items.

I expect to never use either thing, but given this character's backstory.... well, it never hurts to be prepared. Who knows, maybe I get to stuff a monster with tiny flying stone warhorses, and then jump into the monster's mouth as well, and have all the horses suddenly expand, dealing silly damage... err, I mean exploding the monster from the inside.... that's an idea that I came up with just now actually. I think that I figured out an other way to kill the Tarrasque... maybe).

Remember, we're in the 20th level game here; it's not just about "bigger numbers"; it's seriously also about "playing a game that you never thought of at level 1". You should not only plan for the unexpected, but the impossible.


What level 20 Play "could" look like:

On the topic of high level play, I found something semi-relevant.

Could look like this (skip to 0:45) this. However, this fight looks more like level 10 D&D gameplay. Seriously, melee attacking only adjacent opponents while moving, and slipper of spider climbing (4,800 gp) aren't quite 20th level play.

If the character flew, and was fighting things that were able to kill him by touching him (like, actual Shadows with Strength damage), then the danger/power level is closer to 20th level encounters.

Seriously, high level D&D combat makes anime look mundane and simple. We're talking The Paladins of Charlemagne, Stories of Amber, Cu Cullain, Rostram, Beowulf and Volsung saga levels of badass and danger.

A single fighter against 100 shadows, that's about a 20th level fight (really, a CR 16 fight :S ). A touch AC of 23+, or immunity to ability damage would be two things that would allow a fighter to deal with that sort of fight.

On coated natural weapons:

Just a thought; but if you ever meet any creautre that is weak to any specific one of your attacks; then all of your other attacks will be for naught.

Unless there are some really hot spells that you want to load into your weapons; metalline is a weapon property that you might want to think about. It's a +1 property that makes any weapon count as any other metal.

We probably won't be facing demodands or vampires, so the lack of wood weapons probably isn't a big deal. We can probably just say "lalalala! we steal a tree and carry it with us, then cast GMW to make it a +5 Tree; the dragon can now fuck up some demodands"... having wooden teeth is probably a bad idea.

Crit Immunity:

The fact that everyone here seems to be grabbing crit/precision damage immunity at 35k is probably a good thing. I'm probably going to do something similar.

Other gear/feat choices.

I've also got the feeling that just wearing a plain old "ring of invisibility" might be a good idea for what to wear most of the time. The +40 to hide is handy, and I think that I've got a feat slot empty to put in the one feat that all monsters hate when rogues (or other creatures with 30+ hide modifiers) have. Darkstalker. Yes, the bane of minotaurs, beholders and dragons alike, Darkstalker (or it's equivalent).

.... I just wrote an article for this game. D:

Kong is gonna have my head for this.

[Chloe Milev]

Well, Metalline is +2, but yes, it can be steel, silver, cold iron, or admantine.

If you go to http://www.crystalkeep.com/, then into D&D, there are many lists of races, spells, items, feats, etc.  Not only from the books, but Dragon Magazine.  One weapon ability I saw:  Truebane, where it is bane to your own race until you hit something, then it is bane to that for 1 round.  And that's just one of many interesting things not even in Magic Item Compendium.

I had thought about joining, but probably don't have the time to keep up.  I was thinking of this Abjurant Champion thing, then realized it was probably better to have a Rod of Wands loaded with 3 wands of Scorching Ray (or any wand below 15,000), Metamagic Spell Trigger, and Twin Spell and just make 18 rays a round, or something, than to ever use something so passe as a sword.

Poison is also cheap.  In the Book of Vile Darkness, you can get Colossal scorpion poison, Injury DC 54, 2d8 Str damage, for 9000 gp (i.e. free).  Now, one could get their saves above that, but there's a max save ceiling, so it could work, as long as they're not straight immune to poison (I usually just make myself untouchable and saves through the roof and don't worry about it).

Ah, the crazy things you can do at level 20 and nearly infinite "cheap" items.  I suppose PC's don't retire as kings forever much earlier becaue they have to save the world, or easy retirement is too boring.  "King of the nation?  Pfff.  Maybe world, but I have my sights set on the plane.  For now..."

[Darkforged Dove]

The only concern with poisons is that at high level play you meet a lot of undead/constructs.

My bad on Metalline being a +2.

[Mindhazingsquid]

How much does Metaline cost?  Would it be 8k each?

[Darkforged Dove]

16k, b/c it's a +3 weapon. Which means it's not cheap as free. So it chews up a 20k slot. Bleh.

You're better off getting +1 [Whatever] Bane Weapons of a bunch of properties. They're free. Heck, just make sure that you have a Najj's Cloak of Weaponry, and you can assume that you've got something in there as long as you can Identify the monster you're attacking.

Weapons for Elementals are a mite bit harder; since Ignan, Auran, Terran and Aquan costs a +2 enchancement; and chew up an 20k slot at the least. ):

Normally though, you can use other things to just kill an elemental; they're pretty weak to a lot of status effects, like ability damage or level drain. With their massive amounts of HD at higher levels, Con damage is really handy.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Also is there a cloak that gives energy resistance to all energy types, or at least acid/fire/cold/lightning/sonic?  I can't find it.

[Darkforged Dove]

It's in Crystal Keep; let me dig you up a link, i just googled it: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php

Look in the "by location" pdf .... searching with "energy" I found it; .... 18k for 10 versus 1 type.

Screw that. I'm going to use scrolls myself. Seriously at caster level 20, Resist Energy lasts 200 minutes, and grants ER [acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic] 30. Yes ER 30; that's a big deal. The scrolls are a trivial cost.

Awesome, eh? My character might even dump his armour, now that I think about it. I'd lose about 5-7 AC and 11 DR; but also lose the large armour check penalties.

[Mindhazingsquid]

That link helped me a lot, thanks!  Just need a couple more items.

[Chloe Milev]

In the Magic Item Compendium, there are rings of universal energy resistance.  In the Epic Level Handbook, there is a ring of universal energy immunity, which is probably too expensive, but it also has an example of a non-epic ring of universal energy resistance.

[Bayushi]

In the Magic Item Compendium, there are rings of universal energy resistance.  In the Epic Level Handbook, there is a ring of universal energy immunity, which is probably too expensive, but it also has an example of a non-epic ring of universal energy resistance.

Rings of Universal Elemental Immunity run for 2,160,000 gold pieces each. So yeah, it's definitely too expensive. In fact, the cheapest Ring on the Epic Magical Items - Rings chart is 216,000 gold pieces, which is 16,000 too much.

[Darkforged Dove]

Well....

Most of the time, a high reflex save; evasion, or improved evasion will lower the damage from elemental attacks.

If you have Energy Resist 30 on top of that, you'll be scratched at most.

A 20d6 elemental attack is about 70 damage. If you make the save, that's 35; with ER 30, that's 5. If you don't make the save, it's 40 out of 70 that you actually take.

Really, a Ring of Evasion, and scrolls of Energy Resistance will do more to defend against Reflex save spells than you would think. I think that both are free as well.

[Bayushi]

So... when is the game getting started?

[TheVillain]

Soon as one of them is done with their sheet I think.

Speaking of which, still here- just waiting on slowpokes.

[Bayushi]

I remember character creation marathons at 0200 for actual tabletop games, IRL.

AD&D 2ed characters could take so damned long to create. >.<

Third Edition isn't nearly as difficult, I've found, given that many of the things that made Second Ed a pain have been normalized between classes.

It really shouldn't take long, outside of custom magic item creation, to get these characters together. Hell, I built two and was prepared to build yet a THIRD while we still have people unfinished. >.<

[Darkforged Dove]

Yeah, I've been done for a while. Everything left is just coming up with different tactics in order to give myself more options by coming up with different spell and 'free' equipment combos.

Funny enough, most of my 'real' gear are things to store my 'free' gear. Two Portable Holes, and then bags of holding, a HHH (heward's handy... you know the rest). A stat boosting belt; and then some +10 to skill check items.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Finally I'm done, I just need to add up all my bonuses and stuff.

[Mindhazingsquid]

I think I did this right.

Crepusculous
Shadow Adult Dragoness level 20
CE  Large Size
Worships Falazur, dragon night god

STR   28+4   DEX   23   CON   26+4   INT   28   WIS   26   CHA   28
FORT    30   REF   25   WILL   30

HP   265 (305)   AC   44 (10 base, 25 natural, 6 dex, 5 armour bonus, -2 size)  14 (38) touch  40 flat footed
BAB   19   SPD   80 (land), 150 (poor) fly    INIT   0   SPACE/REACH      10'/5' (10' bite)

SKILLS       Ranks   Stat   Misc   TOTAL
Hide            23     6     21          50
Move Silent         23     6     2
Sense Motive         23     8     2
Listen            23     8     2
Spot            23     8     2
Search            23     9     2
Concentration         23     10     2
UMD            23     9     2
Jump            23     11     2
Knowledge (Arcana)      23     9     2
Knowledge (Planes)      23     9     2
Knowledge (Religion)      23     9     2
Escape Artist         23     6     2
Climb            11.5     11     2
Spellcraft         11.5     9     2

Languages: Draconic, Common, Under Common, Elven, Goblin, Infernal


FEATS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Clinging Breath
3) Multi-attack
6) Recover Breath
9) Rapid Strike (Wings)
12) Fast Healing (3)
15) Rapid Strike (claws)
18) Ability Focus Breath

ABILITIES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SR 30
Level drain breath -3lvl/28+x(Highten Breath)dc/once 1d4-1(recover breath)+1 (Clinging Breath) rounds) (40 cone)
Energy drain immune
Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination
other than full daylight, a very young or older shadow dragon
can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment.
Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell,
does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, does.
Mirror image 3/day
Blindsense
Keen Senses 60
Darkvision 120
DR 5/magic
Dimension Door 2/day
Frightful Presence: DC 29, 30Xage category range
Immune Sleep, Paralysis

EQUIPMENT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ring of Chameleon Power:+10  Competence Bonus to hide as free action, standard action use disguise self (12K)
Ring of Spell Battle:If a spell is cast within 60' wearer is informed and can make a dc15+spell level spellcraft check to ID the spell even if it can't be seen.  If spell is IDed wearer can (1/day) choose to have the ring cast dispell magic as a counterspell to that spell or change the target within 60' of the wearer (even if wearer has no counterspell ready).  If target is illegal (ie out of the spells range) it works normally and the redirect is wasted. (67.6k)
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification:100% crit/sneak attack immunity (35k)
Impervious Vestment: +5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster 18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier  (34k)
(3) Rod of Metabreath (Highten Breath) (25k)
(2) Metalline +2(16k)
Metalline Fangs +2(16k)
Gorget of Tempest Breath:When you use your breath weapon, in addition to its normal effects, creatures in the area are affected as through struck by wind effects. The force of the wind depends on your size, as indicated below. For the effects of high winds, see Table 3–24 on page 95 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.(10k)
Belt of Hidden Pouches:Hidden inside this belt are ten small pockets, each of which seems big enough to hold only a few coins. Each pocket actually functions as a small bag of hold­ing and can hold up to 1/2 cubic foot or 5 pounds of nonliving matter. No object with any dimension exceeding 6 inches can be placed in a pocket. Anything placed inside a pocket effectively has one-tenth its normal weight, so a full pocket weighs only 1/2 pound at most.  In addition, two secret pockets lie
behind each visible one, for a total of thirty pockets in all. The hidden pockets can be accessed only through a command word.  A true seeing spell reveals the presence of the hidden pockets but not the command word needed to open them. (9k)
Enslavement Rings:Matched set of 1 Master Ring and 5 Servant Rings
Master Ring – Detect Thoughts, at will on anyone wearing a matched Servant Ring.
Servant Ring – Cannot be removed without a Remove Curse, the wearer is not allowed a save vs. its Master Ring’s Detect Thoughts ability, –10 penalty vs. Divination spells, and when the ring is first put on (and each 10 days after), the wearer is affected by Dominate Person with the controller being the Master Ring wearer. (120k)
Ioun Stone – Pale Green Prism: Gem that floats around the owner’s head +1 Competence bonus to attack rolls, saves, skill checks, & ability checks.(20k)
Stone of Good Luck:Small piece of polished agate. +1 Luck bonus on saving throws, ability checks, & skill checks. (20k)
Belt of Giant Strength +4 (16k)
Piwafwi of Resistance +4:+4 Resistance bonus to all saves.  +10 Circumstance Bonus to Hide. (20k)
Pearl of the Siren:Breath, move around, & even cast spells underwater without hindrance.  Swim 60’. (15.3k)
Amulet of Health +4: +4 con (16k)
Chimes of Interuption:When struck, all spells with verbal components cast within 30’ for the next 3
minutes require a Concentration check vs.  15 + the spell’s level.  Usable once every 10 minutes.(16.8k)
Dragonskin bag of grendel:Large sack made from Black Dragon and Swamp Serpent skin.  Up to 1,500 lbs. feels like 8 lbs. Items placed in the bag are shrunk (as opposed to being stored in an extra-dimensional space), so the bag is safe to put in a Portable Hole, etc. (18k)
Gauntlet of Utterdeath:Spiked Gauntlet of Jet-Black Steel As a touch attack, opponent is reduced to smoldering cinders. On a successful Fortitude save vs. DC 20, opponent takes 10d6 damage. Usable 3/day. (96k)

SPELLS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0: 6+3   1: 6+2   2: 4+2   3:

0:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
1:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
2:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
3:

Spells Known:
0: Silent Portal, Open/Close, Guidance, Sonic Snap, Cure Minor Wound, Detect Magic
1: Buzzing Bee (dc 18), Blood wind, Shield, Magic Missile
2: Infernal Wounds, Scintilating Scales
3:

COMBAT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bite 2D6+11
Claw 1d8+5
Wings 1d6+5
Tail Slap 1D8+11
19+9-1+1

Full attack: Bite +28 (2d6+11), 3 Claws, +26/+26/+21 (1d8+5), 3 Wing Attacks +26/+26/+21 (1d6+5), Tail +26 (1d6+11)
Greater Magic Fang Full attack: Bite +35 (2d6+16), 3 Claws, +31/+31/+26 (1d8+10), 3 Wing Attacks +31/+31/+26 (1d6+10), Tail +31 (1d6+16)

[Darkforged Dove]

That should be fine; I also think that you get 3 more languages; you've got a +9 Int modifier.

Interesting how your 200k item is one that gives you a second character. That could be handy. You'll need to grapple a creature and put it onto them though. Your grapple mod of +34 isn't too shabby.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Languages: Draconic, Common, Under Common, Elven, Goblin, Infernal, Celestial, Abyssal, Auran

And technically I think it's 5 more characters.  Hah hah.  I figured it might be useful for fodder or for getting information.

[Darkforged Dove]

Oh damn.

That's not a bad deal; it's from the Mini HB, right?

[Bayushi]

Thanks, guys.

You reminded me that languages had not been addressed on my character.

As such, they became addressed, and in addition, I dropped one feat and replaced it with Polyglot, so now the cute young Drowess speaks everything. :P

[Mindhazingsquid]

I think it's the poison and plot/drow handbook.  I'll just double check...
...
Nah, I can't find it now.  I'm pretty sure it was in some drow/underdark book.

[Darkforged Dove]

Akiko, I'm sure that your Drowess (wait? what? young drow? Hmm, sounds like you inverted the "all elves live from before you did" trope) could pick up something else other than Polyglot, I mean... there's Tongues. Which has uhm, well, let's just say that it can have different meanings.

This should look to be an interesting group.

I'll probably be acting in a support role, unless there are things that the group actively needs.

So far I think that we've got....

Satyr Bard (shudder I don't think this is the bard that I wish it was; not sure if Kong showed the one I'm thinking about or not)

Nymph-Coatl hybrid

Squid's Dragoness, sorceress (srsly.... negative levels are always awesome, you only need meta-breathe, or spells to avoid allies, or give neg level immunity; you don't need to breathe fire, that's what wands and staffs are for)

Akiko's Drowess Fighter 5/Drow Paragon 15

My.... character is... a guy, and uses a wide range of skills, and weapons, and magic items, and magic. >_> yah...

Is that all? I think that I missed someone. Also, what things are people thinking of bringing to the group?

[kongming]

Satyr Clericy/Palidinny type, actually. My mind blanked a bit when I was telling you what we had.

And I think the Master/Servant rings are from Book of Vile Body Piercings.

[TheVillain]

Technically he's a Piper, which isn't a Satyr so much as what happens when a Satyr and an Elf get it on without taking precautions. And he's going for the whole "Paladin of Freedom" theme, spiritually if not mechanically.

So naturally, the master/slave magic items will be destroyed at the earliest convenience for him- FOR FREEDOM!

[Mindhazingsquid]

You don't think I'm going to dangle them about for everyone to see do you?  They're for 'special occasions'.  Like for party tricks and stuff.

The ring in Book of Vile Darkness is different.  It's only one slave ring and it deals 3d6 damage to the slave and allows the master to telepathicly send a message to the slave ring.

It's in the underdark book for Faerun, pages 71, "Enslavement Ring".

[Chloe Milev]

Well, the Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge has some interesting items, like the Dominatrix's Cockring.  Keeps the person wearing it constantly aroused, person with masr ring can take 20 or get +10 ot arousal checks against him.  And can change the temperature of that organ from 0 to 120 degrees F with resulting damage and fatigue.  But the multiple rings of domination are probably better ;3

[Darkforged Dove]

So the Piper's a Paladin.

So, with no bard, it looks like no one is trying to play Cacofonix. Which is cool, b/c Cacofonix is one of the bard archetypes that I'm not really a fan of. Giacamo and Gurney Halleck are a lot more palatable... I can't think of many other bard-like characters though.

Looking at my character..... he's definitely no king of jester, nor jester of kings.... so I guess I'm a Gurney Halleck. I've got the perform ability, bardic music and, stealing from the immortal Calculon, brimming with "sheer combat talent". Also scars....which means that I probably based this character subconciously on Halleck, and didn't realize it until now. :/
Well.... it's probably not a terrible thing, Frank Herbert was a hell of an author, and Halleck was an interesting character.

Hmm.... the various enslaving rings are also....I need to think of what their effects are; Dominate and Enchantment and [Compulsion] effects I'm guessing. Maybe some extreme heat/cold (but not actual [Fire] or [Cold] damage), and [Pain] effects. If that's what they are..... then

That's... actually something that would be funny to watch someone try to use on my character. Mostly, because the look of on their face of the person trying to make it affect work, and the result, would be hilarious.

Also.... breaking real magic items is a no go. Even cursed items aren't destroyed most of the time, and celestials and fiends would rather vault a magic item they don't like than destroy it. This has something to do with the reducing of overall power when an item is broken, and how bigger items give much more power to everything than weaker ones; which explains why most powerful beings aren't killed, nor most powerful artifacts destroyed.

[Bayushi]

Akiko, I'm sure that your Drowess (wait? what? young drow? Hmm, sounds like you inverted the "all elves live from before you did" trope) could pick up something else other than Polyglot, I mean... there's Tongues. Which has uhm, well, let's just say that it can have different meanings.

All elves live before you did trope?

Huh? She's 98 years old. Elves live long long lives, and 98 is young for elves. It's middle age for drow, since their expected lifespan is shorter given their violent societal norms. But for an non-dark elf, she'd be in her 'late teens'. She's physically the same as a normal elf, age-wise. She doesn't have to worry about the societal norms, since she's since seperated herself from the other Drow.

As for Polyglot, at least her ability to understand languages can't be dispelled, nor can it be disabled by magic-dead zones, such as the ones a Wild Mage can create(accidentally) and like many of those still infesting Faerun after the Time of Troubles(when Mistryl and other gods died, also when Mystra, Cyric, and Kelemvor rose to replace fallen gods). Which reminds me, I need to pick a patron deity for the young Alystin.

[Bayushi]

Also replaced old character image on the char sheet with a new one.

Enjoy.

[Darkforged Dove]

Elves, tend to be one of the "old" races in most games; playing her as a "youthful" 98 year old is a sort of inversion of that. That's all. :) 

The alignment difference from most Drow is not that unexpected. Ever since the "D-word" people have been making "CG" drow fighters with swords. In the last 20 or so years, the "good, rebellious Drow" has become a character concept that people either accept, or don't. [-shrug-]

If you want to go for a specific feat, I'm not really able to stop you, I was just giving advice on character build to help you get the most out of your resources. Feats are pretty expensive, while magic items are pretty inexpensive.

On my own character, 8/17 feats are strictly "survival" based; 2 more are "hiding" related; and only 7 feats are anything to do with "fighting".

If we're not happy with feats right now, it won't matter in the long run since Kongming is willing to let us retrain feats, or chosen class abilities, given 'some' down time. I've already changed my monk fighting style to reflect the challenges of higher level play. So changing characters around that we don't like; between sessions, shouldn't be too hard.

I like the new character picture. Then again, the last one was pretty well drawn as well. Life drawing is one of the harder thins to do.