WH40000 - what's your opinion?

Started by Beorning, August 09, 2014, 03:58:53 PM

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Beorning

I definitely need to read some Moorcock...

A fun fact I read in the DE codex: these bastards are doomed, too :) See, somewhere below Comorragh there is Khaine's Gate: a sealed portal into the Warp...

... and in the 41st Millennium, cracks began to appear on the Gate...

The funniest thing? The DE ruler, Vect, and his main rival, Lady Malys, are currently fighting because of the Gate. Both of them want to keep the Gate shut... but, being DE, Lady Malys fears that Vect wants the opposite. So, their armies fight. To be able to do very the same thing...

Oniya

Quote from: Beorning on May 31, 2015, 05:57:08 AM
I definitely need to read some Moorcock...

'Elric of Melinibone' is widely regarded as a good 'gateway' into Moorcock's (rather large) corpus, and is what got me hooked on his writing.  Throw on the song 'Veteran of the Psychic Wars' by Blue Oyster Cult for a more immediate introduction to the Multiverse (Moorcock wrote the lyrics, and the song is a reference to his 'Eternal Champion', of which Elric is one incarnation.)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Beorning

What else, aside from Elric, did Moorcock wrote? Also, how many Elric books / stories are there?

BTW. I... finished the penitent engine!  ;D  ;D  ;D

Alright, admittedly, I'm not sure how long it will stay in one piece. Some pieces of it were very hard to glue together... But, for the moment, it is ready. And it looks rather awesome, IMHO (as a model, that is - of course, my paint job is of not-too-great quality).

Photos coming up!


Oniya

Quote from: Beorning on May 31, 2015, 01:22:33 PM
What else, aside from Elric, did Moorcock wrote? Also, how many Elric books / stories are there?

There are six core books to the Elric series, plus a couple that are out of sequence.  The critical ones (that you may also find in two omnibus editions) are:

1   Elric of Melniboné
2   The Sailor on the Seas of Fate
3   The Weird of the White Wolf

4   The Vanishing Tower
5   The Bane of the Black Sword
6   Stormbringer

And, before this goes completely OT (too late, I know), you can hit up Moorcock's own site http://www.multiverse.org/ and browse the wiki there for all sorts of info about his works.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Beorning

Thank you! That was helpful :)

I've been meaning to check Moorcock out for some time... I hope to get to it one day.

CountessJess

Quote from: Beorning on May 31, 2015, 03:51:27 PM
Okay, here's the penitent engine (the Canoness included for scale)!






It's great to see you back at painting =)

Inkidu

That's a really good paint job, Beoring. :)
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

Beorning

No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?

Inkidu

Quote from: Beorning on May 31, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?
Don't sell yourself short. I doubt you had an airbrush, and you should really see some of the stuff hanging around the various paint threads. XD
If you're searching the lines for a point, well you've probably missed it; there was never anything there in the first place.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Beorning on May 31, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?

If I remember correctly, poison has nothing to do with AP, it affects wound rolls. Poisoned (2+) means it will wound any non-vehicle target on a 2+, then they roll Armor Save as normal for the weapon. Additionally, if it's a melee weapon and your Strength is higher than their Toughness, you re-roll failed wounds.

CountessJess

Quote from: Beorning on May 31, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
No, it isn't ;) But I'm still happy with it  ;D

Anyway, thanks for the kind word, guys :)

Jess, if you don't mind, I have two questions for you regarding the WH40K game rules:

1. Could you explain to me how Poisoned weapons work? For example, how what does "Poison (2+)" mean and how is it different from AP 2?

2. I was thinking on detachments. Is there any benefit for using many detachments when building an army? For example, let's say that I have a detachment with 2 HQs and 4 Troops... is there any reason to split it into two detachments with 1 HQ and 2 Troops each?

1. IIRC Poison 2+ means that the weapon always wounds on a 2+ regardless of the str of the weapon and the toughness of your target. AP2 negates 2+ and above armour saves. Using a marine statline as an example (T4 3+ save), a str4 ap5 poison(2+) shuriken catapult will wound a marine as long as you roll a 2+, ignoring the need to roll against the T4 value but still allowing the marine to roll his 3+ armour save. In comparison, a hellshot lasgun (str3 ap3) will ignore the armour save of a marine, but you'll still need to roll a str 3 weapon against a T4 target, which is a 5+.

Additionally, in close combat, if the str of the character with the poisoned weapon is higher than the toughness of the person he's punching, he gets to reroll his 2+.

It's been a while since I've played but from what I remember that's how it works.

2. I don't think there's a difference. Maybe the newest edition has something about victory points and stuff, but afaik there isn't a difference. Perhaps for certain army-wide rules (like Ethereals, when they die, give an army wide boost), it's only restricted to the detachment, but I doubt it.

Beorning

Okay, so in simple words, Poisoned is a trait that helps with wounding the opponent, right (assuming the hit passes the armour)? So, a weapon with Str 1 and Poisoned (2+) is actually stronger / more effective than its Str attribute would suggest? Am I getting it right?

Two more questions, if you don't mind:

1. Is there anything that happens to the army when its HQ model gets killed? In other words, is there any drawback the troops get when their main leader gets eliminated?

2. Something I'm wondering about the two-handed weapons: if a model uses a two-handed weapon, does it have to be *presented* as having the second hand free?

I have this question because of the DE's Succubus. Her default weapons are a pistol and a close combat weapon, but you can replace her CCW with a klaive, which can be used as two-handed melee weapon. But does it mean that I can't have use her pistol, too (because she doesn't have a free hand)? Or can she she use it when shooting - and the assumption is that in a melee fight she simply holsters it and fights with a klaive? If so, can I have her mini show her as carrying the pistol in one hand and the klaive in the other one?

Also: the klaive can be used both as a two-handed weapon and a one-handed weapon (it gets worse stats, then)? So, if she uses only one hand for the klaive, can she use her pistol as a CCW, then - and get two attacks in the same round?

HairyHeretic

Quote from: Beorning on June 01, 2015, 02:26:15 PM
Okay, so in simple words, Poisoned is a trait that helps with wounding the opponent, right (assuming the hit passes the armour)? So, a weapon with Str 1 and Poisoned (2+) is actually stronger / more effective than its Str attribute would suggest? Am I getting it right?

Yep.

Quote from: Beorning on June 01, 2015, 02:26:15 PM
Two more questions, if you don't mind:

1. Is there anything that happens to the army when its HQ model gets killed? In other words, is there any drawback the troops get when their main leader gets eliminated?

In general no, though there may be some army specific special rules.

Quote from: Beorning on June 01, 2015, 02:26:15 PM
2. Something I'm wondering about the two-handed weapons: if a model uses a two-handed weapon, does it have to be *presented* as having the second hand free?

I have this question because of the DE's Succubus. Her default weapons are a pistol and a close combat weapon, but you can replace her CCW with a klaive, which can be used as two-handed melee weapon. But does it mean that I can't have use her pistol, too (because she doesn't have a free hand)? Or can she she use it when shooting - and the assumption is that in a melee fight she simply holsters it and fights with a klaive? If so, can I have her mini show her as carrying the pistol in one hand and the klaive in the other one?

Also: the klaive can be used both as a two-handed weapon and a one-handed weapon (it gets worse stats, then)? So, if she uses only one hand for the klaive, can she use her pistol as a CCW, then - and get two attacks in the same round?

If it says only the CCW is replaced by a Klaive, then she still has the pistol.

Unless you're at a tournament where absolutely everything must be modelled, then you're probably fine just pointing out the model has a pistol if anyone asks. Most people tend to just be concerned about fancy wargear anyway.

Pistol + CCW generally gives +1A, though some special weapons differ from that rule.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Beorning

Thanks for answers, Hairy!

Quote from: HairyHeretic on June 01, 2015, 02:38:18 PM
Unless you're at a tournament where absolutely everything must be modelled, then you're probably fine just pointing out the model has a pistol if anyone asks.

I was actually concerned for something else: let's say I model her with a pistol and a klaive. Will it still be okay for her to use the klaive as a two-handed weapon in close combat? I mean, she *can* holster the pistol, after all?

BTW. I'll be making a Seraphim squad for my AS army and I want for one of the Seraphims to have two inferno pistols (it's allowed). But there's no model like that... What if I just take a Seraphim mini with two bolt pistols, sculpt them a little and say that they represent inferno pistols? Would that be okay with other players?

HairyHeretic

Quote from: Beorning on June 01, 2015, 02:59:13 PM
Thanks for answers, Hairy!

Anytime

Quote from: Beorning on June 01, 2015, 02:59:13 PM
I was actually concerned for something else: let's say I model her with a pistol and a klaive. Will it still be okay for her to use the klaive as a two-handed weapon in close combat? I mean, she *can* holster the pistol, after all?

Yep. That's the way most people would look at it.

Quote from: Beorning on June 01, 2015, 02:59:13 PM
BTW. I'll be making a Seraphim squad for my AS army and I want for one of the Seraphims to have two inferno pistols (it's allowed). But there's no model like that... What if I just take a Seraphim mini with two bolt pistols, sculpt them a little and say that they represent inferno pistols? Would that be okay with other players?

As long as they're visibily different from bolt pistols, it shouldn't be a problem.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Oniya

Thought Y'all might enjoy this:

They're so cute when they're young...


"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

CountessJess

Quote from: Beorning on June 01, 2015, 02:59:13 PM
Thanks for answers, Hairy!

I was actually concerned for something else: let's say I model her with a pistol and a klaive. Will it still be okay for her to use the klaive as a two-handed weapon in close combat? I mean, she *can* holster the pistol, after all?

BTW. I'll be making a Seraphim squad for my AS army and I want for one of the Seraphims to have two inferno pistols (it's allowed). But there's no model like that... What if I just take a Seraphim mini with two bolt pistols, sculpt them a little and say that they represent inferno pistols? Would that be okay with other players?

If you're willing to look for them a bit, finding the inferno pistols from the blood angels sanguinary guard and attaching them to your sisters is a thing that you can do.

Beorning

Quote from: HairyHeretic on June 01, 2015, 03:18:32 PM
Yep. That's the way most people would look at it.

Ah! Good, then :)

Quote
As long as they're visibily different from bolt pistols, it shouldn't be a problem.

Great. I'll be trying my hand at greenstuff, then :)

Quote from: CountessJess on June 02, 2015, 07:12:45 AM
If you're willing to look for them a bit, finding the inferno pistols from the blood angels sanguinary guard and attaching them to your sisters is a thing that you can do.

That's one alternative... although I admit that I probably won't have the patience for it. But thanks, I'll take a peek whether there's something available on eBay.

Quote from: Oniya on June 02, 2015, 06:56:41 AM
Thought Y'all might enjoy this:

They're so cute when they're young...



Heh  ;D Nice find. Reposted it in G&C, BTW.

Beorning

Okay, here's a general question for those of you that collect / play WH40K...

What's your approach to building your army? Do you go through the codex and the pick up the units that might prove most useful? Or do you pick models that you find interesting or otherwise appealing? Do you come up with backstories for your armies and try to fit the army to such a backstory? Because I do that...

HairyHeretic

Little from column A, little from column B.

Generally speaking, I'm much more story and background focused than picking the uber WAAC list of the day. I don't tend to include units that I don't think fit the theme of a given army.
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

CountessJess

Trying to play WAAC with 40k is an exercise in madness, anyway.

HairyHeretic

Its a good part of the reason I don't go to tournaments.

I'd much rather play Kill Team, or run something like the Horus Heresy campaign from those books, or redo the 13th Black Crusade or something. Something with an actual story and a point :)
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.

Beorning

#1323
What's a WAAC?

BTW. Does any of you know some webpages with painting guides? I'd really like to try becoming a better painter...

Oniya once directed me to an awesome guide for painting flames... I could use more of such stuff.

HairyHeretic

WAAC = Win At Any Cost / Win At All Costs

The list that I saw take the last tournament I played in was a Chaos / Necron 'Alliance' that had 3 helturkeys (pre nerf) and 3 necron fliers, a couple of minimum sized troops and I think a winged Greater deamon.

It's the same kind of mentality that will field 2 flying Hive Tyrants in a 1000 point game (something else I faced back around that time).
Hairys Likes, Dislikes, Games n Stuff

Cattle die, kinsmen die
You too one day shall die
I know a thing that will never die
Fair fame of one who has earned it.