What's in the News 3.0

[GloomCookie]

By request, new start to the thread from 2.0.

Please be civil.

[Norwegian One]

https://www.newsinenglish.no/2023/09/19/pressure-grows-on-solberg-to-resign/

I guess it says a little about how (relatively) tame Norwegian politics are compared to other countries in the world, but the big news here is the possible inside trading of the former Prime Minister's husband, especially since it was revealed right after a local election which some commentators say could have swayed the election if it had been revealed earlier.

There's been several similar cases in the last year, and Solberg vas been very critical towards other politicians from other parties, so this is not an enviable position for her.

[Missy]

https://www.newsinenglish.no/2023/09/19/pressure-grows-on-solberg-to-resign/

I guess it says a little about how (relatively) tame Norwegian politics are compared to other countries in the world, but the big news here is the possible inside trading of the former Prime Minister's husband, especially since it was revealed right after a local election which some commentators say could have swayed the election if it had been revealed earlier.

There's been several similar cases in the last year, and Solberg vas been very critical towards other politicians from other parties, so this is not an enviable position for her.

gee and all the stuff i wouldn't think about if I were only Norwegian.

In any case though while I don't disagree with the line of thinking of politicians benefitting from the influence of their position this way, I wonder how far such a line of thought could go, I mean should i be banned from stock trading if I'm siblings to a politician? what about cousins or even just merely friends with no blood relation? Again I'm against insider trading as it naturally provides an unfair advantage and well what if I'm a non-insider buyer to something someone's selling off because they know it's about to drop? but then ultimately, to what extent does the assessment of personal loyalties lie? I mean if I can talk about my job in politics over the dinner table with my spouse then what's to stop the gossip to all my relatives and friends? Seems like an interesting question.

[Beorning]

Speaking of insider trading and related ethically-questionable activities: not too long ago, the current Polish Prime Minister was revealed to have invested (a lot) in anti-inflation bonds. It happened at the time when experts started warning that the inflation might be on the rise in Poland... The government denied it fervently. At the same time, the PM invested into those bonds... bonds that would give him a lot of revenue in case the inflation did rise. And you know what? It did rise. Heavily, in fact.

There's something wrong in this picture...

By the way - here's another "cheerful" fresh bit of news from Poland:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/09/21/government-to-show-recording-in-cinemas-before-screening-of-anti-polish-migrant-film/


Basically: the internationally-known Polish director, Agnieszka Holland, made a movie about the ongoing migrant crisis at Polish - Belarusian border. The film was received very well at recent Cannes film festival.

Polish government doesn't like this movie, as it shows the human right abuses that are happening at the border. So, since a few weeks ago, they issue condemnations, claim the movie is "anti-Polish" and liken it Nazi propaganda. The hate campaign against the movie is *massive*. Now, the government revealed they will be trying to force small cinemas to... show a "special clip" before every screening of Holland's movie. A clip aimed to debunk the "lies" in her film...

Hello, state censorship!!!! Welcome back after 30+ years, we missed you!!!  >:(  >:(  >:(

[Missy]

Elevating the party to the level of being 'the state', you could say it sounds a little fascist, or that might actually be something fascists have done even.

[Al Terego]

Elevating the party to the level of being 'the state', you could say it sounds a little fascist, or that might actually be something fascists have done even.

Authoritarianism is seen both on the right and on the left.

[Beorning]

Elevating the party to the level of being 'the state', you could say it sounds a little fascist, or that might actually be something fascists have done even.

Well, it's the actual national government that wants to force the cinemas to precede every screening of Green Border with a propaganda clip. To inform the viewers that the movie they are going to be watching is full of lies etc. What else do you call it than state-level attempt at censorship?

Anyway... this government-level hate campaign against a movie, its director and anyone who liked, is utterly disgusting. And scary. The PiS leader Kaczyński himself gave a speech today - and he openly stated that everyone who doesn't condemn the movie is "a member of Putin's army". Can you believe it? They are basically saying: if you don't condemn this movie, you're a traitor to Poland!

I wish I could say we'd be voting this people out of office in 3 weeks time... but the polls show that there's a significant chance that PiS might win these elections. I don't understand it... are my fellow Polish citizens so freaking dumb? They *want* this kind of government???

It's all so hard to swallow...

BTW. The hate campaign against this movie is so intense that Agnieszka Holland had to *hire bodyguards for 24/7 protection*. Poland under PiS, people!  >:(

[Missy]

Well, it's the actual national government that wants to force the cinemas to precede every screening of Green Border with a propaganda clip. To inform the viewers that the movie they are going to be watching is full of lies etc. What else do you call it than state-level attempt at censorship?

Anyway... this government-level hate campaign against a movie, its director and anyone who liked, is utterly disgusting. And scary. The PiS leader Kaczyński himself gave a speech today - and he openly stated that everyone who doesn't condemn the movie is "a member of Putin's army". Can you believe it? They are basically saying: if you don't condemn this movie, you're a traitor to Poland!

I wish I could say we'd be voting this people out of office in 3 weeks time... but the polls show that there's a significant chance that PiS might win these elections. I don't understand it... are my fellow Polish citizens so freaking dumb? They *want* this kind of government???

It's all so hard to swallow...

BTW. The hate campaign against this movie is so intense that Agnieszka Holland had to *hire bodyguards for 24/7 protection*. Poland under PiS, people!  >:(

from the article:

A senior PiS lawmaker, Radosław Fogiel, told broadcaster TVP today that “it is sad” that opposition figures have welcomed Green Border as an “anti-PiS film” whereas it is in fact “anti-Polish”.

Taking criticism of your party as criticism of your nation is a bit, interesting

[Missy]

Authoritarianism is seen both on the right and on the left.

well you've lost me, PiS is a rightist political organization, I don't know what they have to do with the left?

[Al Terego]

well you've lost me, PiS is a rightist political organization, I don't know what they have to do with the left?

I was responding to the following:

Elevating the party to the level of being 'the state', you could say it sounds a little fascist, or that might actually be something fascists have done even.

Marxism-Leninism et alia have also equated the party with the state.

That was a general observation, unrelated to Poland or PiS.

[Oniya]

I was responding to the following:

Marxism-Leninism et alia have also equated the party with the state.

That was a general observation, unrelated to Poland or PiS.

Considering Beorning's concerns about his own country, it seems at best a non sequiter - at worst, 'what-aboutism'.

[Beorning]

Taking criticism of your party as criticism of your nation is a bit, interesting

Oh, obviously. Although this has been a part of PiS rhetoric for years, so no surprise there.

A somewhat more recent - and growing in intensity - development is the way PiS uses "Support your troops!" type of slogans to shut people up and generate hate. You try to cricitise the police for incidents of brutality and acting as the government's private militia? You are an awful person who disrespects the hard-working cops. You criticise the Border Guard and the military for the human rights abuses? You're an ungrateful, unpatriotic traitor! Don't you dare to "disrespect the uniform"!

Considering Beorning's concerns about his own country, it seems at best a non sequiter - at worst, 'what-aboutism'.

Ah, I don't mind. Not to mention, trying to categorize PiS according to traditional political terms is headache. They are socially conservative, bigoted and nationalistic... on the other hand, they are economically quite leftist, with all of their social benefits spending and nationalizing the industry. Overall, they are cynical, populist and heavily authoritarian...

[Missy]

Oh, obviously. Although this has been a part of PiS rhetoric for years, so no surprise there.

A somewhat more recent - and growing in intensity - development is the way PiS uses "Support your troops!" type of slogans to shut people up and generate hate. You try to cricitise the police for incidents of brutality and acting as the government's private militia? You are an awful person who disrespects the hard-working cops. You criticise the Border Guard and the military for the human rights abuses? You're an ungrateful, unpatriotic traitor! Don't you dare to "disrespect the uniform"!

Ah, I don't mind. Not to mention, trying to categorize PiS according to traditional political terms is headache. They are socially conservative, bigoted and nationalistic... on the other hand, they are economically quite leftist, with all of their social benefits spending and nationalizing the industry. Overall, they are cynical, populist and heavily authoritarian...

I'm not as familiar with the Italian Fascisti as I am with the Nazi's (though I intend to learn about as many authoritarian regimes as I can in time), but I have heard they were given to more left leaning policies. Again, I'm not really sure what and how, I mean Hitler just used the socialist wing of the Nazi party to gain power and ultimately put them out in the cold as soon as they were no longer needed to get him into power, but I have heard from more than one source that Italian Fascism was more leftist.

[ShadowFox89]

 There was no socialist wing of the Nazi party. They had no socialist elements to them. They called themselves national-socialist to muddy the message. Fascism is literally the polar opposite of leftism and any thoughts to the contrary is either not having been taught enough or deliberate BS'ing to muddy the message.

[Oniya]

It's possible to be authoritarian without being fascist.  It's just not possible to be fascist without being authoritarian.

[Chulanowa]

Marxism-Leninism et alia have also equated the party with the state.

That was a general observation, unrelated to Poland or PiS.

Well the Communist Party of the Soviet Union was literally everyone living in the USSR, so there's a fair argument to be made for the party and the polity - and thus the state - being functionally synonymous. (Whether the CPSU effectually represented all of its members can of course be debated.)

Quite a difference from reactionary parties who are extremely elitist about who can be part of their group, and who can be part of the people, and who can be part of the state.

(And for what it's worth; read Engles' "On Authority" - don't worry, it's short) 

Ah, I don't mind. Not to mention, trying to categorize PiS according to traditional political terms is headache. They are socially conservative, bigoted and nationalistic... on the other hand, they are economically quite leftist, with all of their social benefits spending and nationalizing the industry. Overall, they are cynical, populist and heavily authoritarian...

It's... really not that big of a headache. They're a broadly reactionary party, one might even comfortably say fascist or at least proto-fascist. They lean hard into both the ideas of Poland as a "Victim-Nation" and the Revanchist idealism of "Poland as an Empire" - contradictory positions, but reaction doesn't have to make sense. Their social benefits spending is actually pretty standard capitalism; a welfare system is generally recognized by capitalists as a necessary concession to extend the life of capitalism (Hayek's nonsense is broadly regarded as laughable voodoo by most capitalists, regardless of what your libertarian uncle on facebook insists). It can even be another hallmark of reaction, depending on who is receiving benefits and who is excluded. 

Similarly the nationalization of industries is not necessarily a "leftist" action - especially when done by a capitalist state. For a great example consider Mexico, which has a mostly-nationalized fossil fuel industry. Mexico's not remotely socialist. it just has an industry where the state itself is a majority shareholder. This revenue goes towards the state itself, where it is spent on a variety of things, probably the very least of which is the people of Mexico. I imagine the same is true in Poland, with the citizens and residents of Poland barely seeing a grosz out of any of it (In fact much like Mexico, I'd assume a fair chunk of it goes into the bank accounts of well-placed politicians first and foremost...)

[Vekseid]

(And for what it's worth; read Engles' "On Authority" - don't worry, it's short) 

It is utterly mystifying that tankies cite this ignoramus (at the absolute most generous) and expect to be taken seriously. A century and a half of abject failures later and they still go back to it. No growth in interim.

Authoritarianism is the exaltation of some person or concept such that it is its own end. No matter the facts staring you in the face. It is a form of cultural ossification. It can infect nearly any group, with the rejection of critical thinking, self reflection, and criticism.

There is a reason authoritarian governments have had such short lifespans lately.  They are never prepared for the world to come.

[Al Terego]

Well the Communist Party of the Soviet Union was literally everyone living in the USSR

That is patently incorrect.

The party membership has never been over 10% of the USSR adult population, and less than 4% during Stalin's reign.

[Beorning]

It's possible to be authoritarian without being fascist.  It's just not possible to be fascist without being authoritarian.

True.

Personally, I'd yet refrain from calling PiS true fascists... although they are moving in the fascistoid direction. And, for this election, they picked a guy who is an actual neo-fascist as one of their MP candidates.

It's... really not that big of a headache. They're a broadly reactionary party, one might even comfortably say fascist or at least proto-fascist. They lean hard into both the ideas of Poland as a "Victim-Nation" and the Revanchist idealism of "Poland as an Empire" - contradictory positions, but reaction doesn't have to make sense.

While you are right about PiS leaning into the "Victim-Nation", I'd rephrase the second idea as "Poland as the most heroic nation in Europe". And add "Poland as the last bastion of one true morality and way of life".

Their social benefits spending is actually pretty standard capitalism; a welfare system is generally recognized by capitalists as a necessary concession to extend the life of capitalism (Hayek's nonsense is broadly regarded as laughable voodoo by most capitalists, regardless of what your libertarian uncle on facebook insists). It can even be another hallmark of reaction, depending on who is receiving benefits and who is excluded. 

Not sure if I'd agree with that. Social benefits under PiS are simple giveaways - PiS seems unable to execute social projects more complex than "Let's give all families with children a monthly bonus of 500 PLN per child, yay!". Overall, their benefits are designed to appeal to the groups that support PiS: low income families, elderly people etc. They don't help the workforce or anything like it...

Similarly the nationalization of industries is not necessarily a "leftist" action - especially when done by a capitalist state. For a great example consider Mexico, which has a mostly-nationalized fossil fuel industry. Mexico's not remotely socialist. it just has an industry where the state itself is a majority shareholder. This revenue goes towards the state itself, where it is spent on a variety of things, probably the very least of which is the people of Mexico. I imagine the same is true in Poland, with the citizens and residents of Poland barely seeing a grosz out of any of it (In fact much like Mexico, I'd assume a fair chunk of it goes into the bank accounts of well-placed politicians first and foremost...)

That's true. I'm just saying that if we define the rightist economic policies as they are understood in, say, the States, then PiS would be GOP's nightmare.

There is a reason authoritarian governments have had such short lifespans lately.  They are never prepared for the world to come.

Not sure about the short lifespans. Orban's government is still thriving in Hungary. And PiS has been ruling Poland for 8 years now... and they might be getting another 4 years soon.

[Vekseid]

Not sure about the short lifespans. Orban's government is still thriving in Hungary. And PiS has been ruling Poland for 8 years now... and they might be getting another 4 years soon.

I'm not talking about a few years. The Soviet Union collapsed after ~70 years.

Meanwhile the only things that have ever threatened US stability have been authoritarian movements.

[GloomCookie]

Vekseid, are you talking about authoritarian movements within the US or external ones? Just trying to understand.

I know a few times the US has been involved in propping up authoritarian movements, but mostly because it advanced US global policy against communism (though far from the only reason). The CIA got involved in the middle east and South America especially. I would go so far as to say that Cuba wouldn't be a communist nation were it not for US interference with propping up Fulgencio Batista before the Cuban Revolution. And it wasn't just the CIA, given that the US was also involved in 'liberating' Panama because the US wanted to build the Panama Canal and Columbia said no.

[Al Terego]

I know a few times the US has been involved in propping up authoritarian movements, but mostly because it advanced US global policy against communism (though far from the only reason).

Do not forget private commercial interests.  United Fruit company comes to mind.

[Chulanowa]

It is utterly mystifying that tankies cite this ignoramus (at the absolute most generous) and expect to be taken seriously. A century and a half of abject failures later and they still go back to it. No growth in interim.

Authoritarianism is the exaltation of some person or concept such that it is its own end. No matter the facts staring you in the face. It is a form of cultural ossification. It can infect nearly any group, with the rejection of critical thinking, self reflection, and criticism.

There is a reason authoritarian governments have had such short lifespans lately.  They are never prepared for the world to come.

Well I'm not too worried bout "critique" in the form of glib non-sequiturs and offhanded scoffing. 

Personally, I'd yet refrain from calling PiS true fascists... although they are moving in the fascistoid direction. And, for this election, they picked a guy who is an actual neo-fascist as one of their MP candidates.

I mean my rule of thumb is "If your party is running fascists, it's a fascist party." So...?

While you are right about PiS leaning into the "Victim-Nation", I'd rephrase the second idea as "Poland as the most heroic nation in Europe". And add "Poland as the last bastion of one true morality and way of life".

That's bog-standard nationalism, I'm meaning more towards their veneration of  the second republic and Józef Piłsudski. That whole vibe of "Make Poland Greater Poland Again"

Not sure if I'd agree with that. Social benefits under PiS are simple giveaways - PiS seems unable to execute social projects more complex than "Let's give all families with children a monthly bonus of 500 PLN per child, yay!". Overall, their benefits are designed to appeal to the groups that support PiS: low income families, elderly people etc. They don't help the workforce or anything like it...

I mean, if that's all it is, that seems like a pretty solid policy. Shame it's attached to such cretins though.

That's true. I'm just saying that if we define the rightist economic policies as they are understood in, say, the States, then PiS would be GOP's nightmare.

The political parties of the United States aren't a useful basis of comparison for anywhere, I don't think. Both of the major ones are fuckin bonkers

Not sure about the short lifespans. Orban's government is still thriving in Hungary. And PiS has been ruling Poland for 8 years now... and they might be getting another 4 years soon.

It's a sort of special pleading. Sort of like the whole thing where "China's Collapse Is Imminent!" has been a claim made for the last seventy years. Maybe eventually it will and all the people who have been wrong all this time will go "AHA SEE I TOLD YOU SO!"

[Al Terego]

An ABC/WashingtonPost poll shows Trump edging out Biden 51-42 in head-to-head matchup:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/troubles-biden-age-reelection-campaign-poll/story?id=103436611

[Beorning]

I mean my rule of thumb is "If your party is running fascists, it's a fascist party." So...?

It's not necessarily that simple... Still, if a party endorses a politician who is an obvious neo-fascist, then it's definitely telling, yes. Especially if, over the years, the same party has shown indirect support toward far right movements.

That's bog-standard nationalism, I'm meaning more towards their veneration of  the second republic and Józef Piłsudski. That whole vibe of "Make Poland Greater Poland Again"

To be fair, some degree of veneration of 2nd Republic and Piłsudski is quite common in Poland. Which is a problem, IMHO. It'd do us good as a nation to look at this (quite ugly) period objectively.

I mean, if that's all it is, that seems like a pretty solid policy. Shame it's attached to such cretins though.

Not that a solid policy, to be honest. Yes, social benefits help poor families, but the way PiS implented this program is too blunt. The way they do it, every family with children gets benefits - even very rich families. There should be some limits on that, as it would both save some money (the program is insanely costly) and allow to give bigger benefits to families that actually need them. But, as I said, PiS is unable to handle any complex programs...

Not to mention, that program was initially meant to increase Poland's abysmal birth rates. But it didn't achieve that goal at all. In fact, under PiS, the birth rates are going down more and more...

An ABC/WashingtonPost poll shows Trump edging out Biden 51-42 in head-to-head matchup:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/troubles-biden-age-reelection-campaign-poll/story?id=103436611

Ooooooh crap.  :-(

[Chulanowa]

It's not necessarily that simple... Still, if a party endorses a politician who is an obvious neo-fascist, then it's definitely telling, yes. Especially if, over the years, the same party has shown indirect support toward far right movements.

It really is that simple. I know there's an urge to "save fascism for a special occasion," to always go "oh it's not that bad, yet..." but all that does is give cover. Keep up with the "Oh we can't call it fascism, not just yet" and you'll have an Enabling Act on your docket before you know it.

Not that a solid policy, to be honest. Yes, social benefits help poor families, but the way PiS implented this program is too blunt. The way they do it, every family with children gets benefits - even very rich families. There should be some limits on that, as it would both save some money (the program is insanely costly) and allow to give bigger benefits to families that actually need them. But, as I said, PiS is unable to handle any complex programs...

Means-testing on social programs is full of flaws. It is essentially a moralizing position where the poor have to prove they are "poor enough" to receive benefits, usually by the standards of people who have never had to pay a bill in their entire life. There's also the issue that if the wealthy - you know, the influential people who tend to fill government in these grand "democracies" - don't get the benefit, all they see is cost, and so there's pressure to keep cutting and hobbling and adding new hoops for people to jump through. All under the disguise of "making sure it goes to the people who need it." Look at the US and compare food assistance programs, which are full of paperwork and rigamarole and deadlines and cutoffs and arcane limits, and are CONSTANTLY being cut and manipulated.. .to Social security, which is a universal program and talk of cutting it tends to upset all levels of society (not that it stops politicians, because Democracy)

Simply put, it's better than a rich family and a poor family both get a few hundred bucks every month, than the rich family not and hte poor family have to jump through hoops go get $100 that htey can only spend on store brand pinto beans.

As for the expense... Well that money goes to people, who spend that money, stimulating the economy. I dunno how taxation works in Poland but I imagine you probably have some sort of sales tax and such, so at each purchase some of that money is returning to the state anyway... Genuinely just giving people money las little real cost, aside from the hurt fee-fees of people who think this or that person "doesn't deserve it."

Not to mention, that program was initially meant to increase Poland's abysmal birth rates. But it didn't achieve that goal at all. In fact, under PiS, the birth rates are going down more and more...

I think I mentioned this in the old thread, but "declining birth rates" are mostly just a sign of an industrialized economy. You don't NEED to have thirteen kids if you're not using them as free labor to dig your potatoes or whatever. The pearl-clutching of so many politicians in so many countries over this is just silly. Especially when you realize the issue is oh no labor costs might go up!

[GloomCookie]

An ABC/WashingtonPost poll shows Trump edging out Biden 51-42 in head-to-head matchup:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/troubles-biden-age-reelection-campaign-poll/story?id=103436611

I don't know how much stock I put into those kinds of polls because they tend to either be biased or tend to not be an accurate snapshot since the actual voter turnout could be drastically different. Polls don't really look at who actually intends to go out and vote in person.

That said, I do rather hope that the polls are wrong. I don't want to see Trump back in the white house, though admittedly I'm not the biggest Biden fan either. If it comes down to those two I might just stay home myself. I know which way Arkansas will vote.

[TheGlyphstone]

I don't know how much stock I put into those kinds of polls because they tend to either be biased or tend to not be an accurate snapshot since the actual voter turnout could be drastically different. Polls don't really look at who actually intends to go out and vote in person.

That said, I do rather hope that the polls are wrong. I don't want to see Trump back in the white house, though admittedly I'm not the biggest Biden fan either. If it comes down to those two I might just stay home myself. I know which way Arkansas will vote.

I dont want to see Trump in the hot seat either, but I sure as hell don't want DeSantis anywhere near more power. My state doesn't allow non-partisan votes in primaries, and I'm considering temporarily aligning GOP just to try and stop that.

[Oniya]

It's worth noting that there are two methods of 'polling voters'.  One of these is web-based polls, and the other is phone-based polls.  Phone polls tend to end up biased towards older voters, who a) have land-lines and b) generally have the instinct of 'answer the phone when it rings, as opposed to younger voters who have exclusively mobiles (which were excluded from many robocall lists due to 'call limits' in earlier years) and check the number before answering.

Web-based polls are also biased, as they rely on people clicking into the page (paywalls discourage many people) or are opt-in by email (which often end up in spam filters.  Neither of these methods require the clicker to verify their status as an American voter.

[Chulanowa]

I don't know how much stock I put into those kinds of polls because they tend to either be biased or tend to not be an accurate snapshot since the actual voter turnout could be drastically different. Polls don't really look at who actually intends to go out and vote in person.

That said, I do rather hope that the polls are wrong. I don't want to see Trump back in the white house, though admittedly I'm not the biggest Biden fan either. If it comes down to those two I might just stay home myself. I know which way Arkansas will vote.

I don't think electoralism works, personally - I mean really, out of everyone, these two are "the best" that either party can come up with? Simply amazing. Even so, it's free and without risk to the voter, so there's no reason to not participate - and even a sort of moral imperative, given how many people have stuck their necks out and even died to protect and secure the right to vote.

But apparently in Arkansas the only parties allowed on the ballot are the Democrats (Yuck), the Republicans (Yikes) and the Libertarians (Holy Shit).

That's rough buddy. I guess vote Democrat or write in Daffy Duck (kinda the same thing, and equally as meaningful in Arkansas, lol)

[Vekseid]

Vekseid, are you talking about authoritarian movements within the US or external ones? Just trying to understand.

I mean the two times stability in the US has been threatened, authoritarians have been the cause. The Civil War (holding the enslavement of blacks as an unquestionable truth) and Trump's attempted coup.

Well I'm not too worried bout "critique" in the form of glib non-sequiturs and offhanded scoffing. 

Pretty apt description for everything Engels wrote, there. Dude conflates authoritarianism with 'having rules' (when he probably knows that is not what it means) and hoes downhill from there.

I see no reason to take it seriously.

It's worth noting that there are two methods of 'polling voters'.  One of these is web-based polls, and the other is phone-based polls.  Phone polls tend to end up biased towards older voters, who a) have land-lines and b) generally have the instinct of 'answer the phone when it rings, as opposed to younger voters who have exclusively mobiles (which were excluded from many robocall lists due to 'call limits' in earlier years) and check the number before answering.

Web-based polls are also biased, as they rely on people clicking into the page (paywalls discourage many people) or are opt-in by email (which often end up in spam filters.  Neither of these methods require the clicker to verify their status as an American voter.

Web-based polls are often overlays on some popular site or another. E.g. Youtube or Facebook, are quick and relatively unobtrusive. They absolutely know whether you are in the US or not, and are as sure of your ability to vote as any phone-based pollster is.

Historically, this far out the best predictor is special elections. Though it's also rather odd for pollsters to be 12 points off.

[GloomCookie]

I mean the two times stability in the US has been threatened, authoritarians have been the cause. The Civil War (holding the enslavement of blacks as an unquestionable truth) and Trump's attempted coup.

That's what I thought you meant, thank you for clarifying.

[Keelan]

So did anyone else see the story about how Canadian Parliament - at the behest of the Speaker of the House of Commons - gave a standing ovation to a 'Ukrainian and Canadian hero' who turned out to be a WWII veteran who fought for the Waffen-SS Galicia Division?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/anthony-rota-ukrainian-veteran-apology-1.6977117

[Keelan]

Sooo... update on the story above: The Speaker has apparently resigned following the standing ovation he initiated during Zelenskyy's visit.

Also, reporting is that Poland is apparently checking to see if the man in question is wanted for war crimes and may end up requesting extradition from Canada.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/26/world/anthony-rota-resign-canada-ukraine-nazi.html

For those who want to ignore the adblocker like me: https://web.archive.org/web/20230926200313/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/26/world/anthony-rota-resign-canada-ukraine-nazi.html/

https://www.politico.eu/article/yaroslav-hunka-poland-extradite-ukrainian-ss-veteran-canada/

[Mechelle]

I did see that, and it was quite an embarrassing moment for Canada. Did I see that the Speaker resigned afterwards?

In another embarrassing occasion, our British Home Secretary, Suella Braverman, gave a speech to something called the American Enterprise Institute. I am not sure, and genuinely wonder, how widely reported this was in the USA. In effect, she attacked the UN Refugees Convention, saying that it should be abolished. Women or gay people who may face discrimination and prejudice, without necessarily being persecuted should not be eligible to claim asylum, in her view. She also attacked the multicultural society.

It's ironic as she is the daughter of immigrants, with her mother's family coming from India and her father's from Goa, which was part of the Portuguese Empire. Under her proposals, I can't see how her parents would have been allowed to come to Britain.

This is all part of her bid, I am sure, for the leadership of the Conservative Party who are expected to lose power in next year's General Election, when she will attack Rishi Sunak from the far right. It's a low point for a senior British politician, though.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/suella-braverman-speech-live-tory-31032245

[Vekseid]

Vivek Ramaswamy is facing similar criticism here, for among other things wanting to gut H1B visas, which he benefited from a couple dozen times.

Not that I think he cares. He's definitely gunning to be Trump's #2, though I doubt Trump will go for him.

[GloomCookie]

The Federal Trade Commission and 17 states have filed an anti-trust lawsuit against Amazon.
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/26/1191099421/amazon-ftc-lawsuit-antitrust-monopoly

I was listening to this on the way home, and apparently Amazon is using its weight to force sellers into a disadvantageous position by charging high fees that cost the seller a lot of money, and for products that trend a lot, Amazon is able to use its search algorithms to steer people towards an Amazon cheaper alternative since Amazon doesn't have to worry about the same markups since they own the platform. Amazon has of course fired back saying that the FTC is being anti-consumer by trying to make it harder on consumers.

[Chulanowa]

Pretty apt description for everything Engels wrote, there. Dude conflates authoritarianism with 'having rules' (when he probably knows that is not what it means) and hoes downhill from there.

I see no reason to take it seriously.

Because authoritarianism is the exercise of authority. That's what it means. It's really not that complicated or convoluted. One can ask whether a use of authority is more or less authoritarian, but it always is.

So did anyone else see the story about how Canadian Parliament - at the behest of the Speaker of the House of Commons - gave a standing ovation to a 'Ukrainian and Canadian hero' who turned out to be a WWII veteran who fought for the Waffen-SS Galicia Division?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/anthony-rota-ukrainian-veteran-apology-1.6977117

HoW dOeS tHiS kEeP HaPPeNinG?!

[Al Terego]

Because authoritarianism is the exercise of authority. That's what it means. It's really not that complicated or convoluted. One can ask whether a use of authority is more or less authoritarian, but it always is.

Wikipedia disagrees (emphasis mine):
Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting.

... as does every online dictionary I checked (example)

[Vekseid]

Because authoritarianism is the exercise of authority. That's what it means. It's really not that complicated or convoluted. One can ask whether a use of authority is more or less authoritarian, but it always is.

It is not. It never referenced such a thing, except in Engels' writing here. This is the sort of semantic dodging we smack fascists for.

I have a hard time believing he did not know this. Yet this false presentation forms the core of his thesis.

People decrying authoritarianism are not decrying 'rules'. They decry the suppression of dissent, the monopolization of power, 'rule by law' rather than rule of law, restrictions on speech, and the like.

You're the fourth tankie I've seen push this specific article in the past year.

I am morbidly curious why you lot think it is so persuasive.

[Rinzler]

A centuries old sycamore at the heart of a well-known beauty spot - made famous in the film Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves - has been cut down in an apparent act of vandalism. A 16 year old boy as been arrested.

This has peeved me right off. The sheer twattishness of doing such a thing. FFS.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66952980

[RedRose]

I don't understand why someone would do that.

[GloomCookie]

I don't understand why someone would do that.

There seems to be a belief that's permeated society over the past few decades that people have become famous for being evil. People know the names of history's worst, like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ted Bundy, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, etc. There seems to be this belief, at least from what I've seen, of people who believe they can become famous for being evil for doing something heinous enough that everyone will remember their deeds for years to come. That, and it's easier to destroy something rather than take the time to build something good and positive. No one cares about all the good someone does, when it can be undone by some little asshole with a chainsaw in a few minutes.

I have little doubt that the 16 year old thought that by doing something destructive, it would be an easy thing to do while netting a lot of talk about him. HE is now the one everyone's talking about. HE is now the person people will think about when they visit the site and the tree is gone. Doesn't matter that he caused pain and suffering, it's about him. It's an act of selfishness fueled by an egotistical belief that by doing this, he's now the center of attention. He gets people talking about him and he's not thinking through the consequences, because it was just a stupid tree. Who cares that people liked it or that it was old, old stuff is boring. Look at me, I'm the future, and I cut it down, so now pay attention to me!

[Kurogane]

There seems to be a belief that's permeated society over the past few decades that people have become famous for being evil. People know the names of history's worst, like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ted Bundy, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, etc. There seems to be this belief, at least from what I've seen, of people who believe they can become famous for being evil for doing something heinous enough that everyone will remember their deeds for years to come. That, and it's easier to destroy something rather than take the time to build something good and positive. No one cares about all the good someone does, when it can be undone by some little asshole with a chainsaw in a few minutes.

I have little doubt that the 16 year old thought that by doing something destructive, it would be an easy thing to do while netting a lot of talk about him. HE is now the one everyone's talking about. HE is now the person people will think about when they visit the site and the tree is gone. Doesn't matter that he caused pain and suffering, it's about him. It's an act of selfishness fueled by an egotistical belief that by doing this, he's now the center of attention. He gets people talking about him and he's not thinking through the consequences, because it was just a stupid tree. Who cares that people liked it or that it was old, old stuff is boring. Look at me, I'm the future, and I cut it down, so now pay attention to me!

What sort of punishment should fit this crime?
He is not legally an adult, right, so what can society do to punish such an act?

[GloomCookie]

What sort of punishment should fit this crime?
He is not legally an adult, right, so what can society do to punish such an act?

He's 16, which in certain circumstances can lead to being punished as an adult. There's a case going on right now to decide if a boy, at age 15, should be sentenced to life without parole because he shot several students and then surrendered before police arrived so he could witness the results of his actions.
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/28/1202264832/judge-to-decide-if-michigan-school-shooter-will-face-life-without-parole

Meanwhile the US government may shut down at midnight Saturday night because Republican hardliners blocked a Republican bipartisan stopgap bill to extend Federal spending.
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/29/1202667062/government-shutdown

And US Senator Dianne Feinstein is dead at 90.
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/29/1202646467/dianne-feinstein-tributes-washington-california

[Chulanowa]

It is not. It never referenced such a thing, except in Engels' writing here. This is the sort of semantic dodging we smack fascists for.

I have a hard time believing he did not know this. Yet this false presentation forms the core of his thesis.

People decrying authoritarianism are not decrying 'rules'.

Well first off, people decrying all forms of authority - "rules" - are indeed exactly who Engels is responding to. In this case Engels is directly responding to adherents of Pierre Joseph Proudhon. Basically old-school anarchists who saw any and all exercise of authority as "violence," thus immoral and untenable. "Authoritarianism" in this case is literally "any authority I dislike," which is still the usage of the word, which is my whole point. At least the Proudhonists had (had) the intellectual consistency to dislike all authority on principle, I suppose.

And the thesis of "On Authority" is pretty clear - Exercises of authority are necessary for a functional society. That it is unavoidable. Even a socialist society must have structures of authority, because a milling mass of hyperindividualists is a terrible way to get anything useful accomplished (even literal milling, to use Engels' example). As I said earlier, it's a short read, and 19th century verbiage aside is not terribly complex or convoluted. It seems that you find this premise deeply outrageous, which I find deeply hilarious.

They decry the suppression of dissent, the monopolization of power, 'rule by law' rather than rule of law, restrictions on speech, and the like.

They decry various levels of these things, mostly when applied by people they do not agree with.

Let's consider monopolization of power. Vekseid, you're a Democratic party voter, right? Do you want to have equitable power sharing with the Republican party? Like right now, the GOP as it stands, do you want to have some sort of arm-in-arm, even-steven political situation with the Gohmerts and the Gaetzes and the Trumps and the Boeberts of the nation? Of course not right? Certainly you don't want to include the Libertarian and Constitution party in this equitable power arrangement (I mean your party constantly sues to suppress Green voters so, right away we know you're down with keeping  them out of power at all) Given the choice, you would rather have the Democratic party running the show completely, right? You would want monopolization of power in the hands of your party, because you think that would have the best outcome.

But of course here's the rub  - because you almost certainly want that, you also almost certainly can't recognize it as "Authoritarianism," despite using it as an example of what defines authoritarianism.

Which comes to my point. "Authoritarianism" is a squishy, meaningless word. It's used purely pejoratively, and it's loaded with double standards. As commonly used, only someone else can be authoritarian - never us or people we like. its common usage hinges on the idea of "too much authority" but how much is too much? What's the measure? What exactly is "excessive" or "harsh,"At what point do restrictions on speech for example, which you absolutely DO support, become "too restrictive"? China has a ban on depictions of blood in most visual media, and I've seen this called "authoritarian" but Denmark and Australia have similar restrictions (this is why people in "The Rain" cough up strawberry yogurt, and the zombies in "Cargo" are covered in orange jello) that I've never seen called such. It always ends up being a meaningless scare word that boils down to "I'll know it when I see it."

if you want to decry various forms and methods of suppression of dissent, do so. if you want to call out monopolization of power, go for it. These things are measurable, concrete, can be given critical analysis. I'm saying, don't roll it all into this doughy ball of vague vibey invective that means whatever you want it to mean, moment to moment, case-by-case

After all, remember that these dorks think birth certificates and food regulations are "authoritarianism"

You're the fourth tankie I've seen push this specific article in the past year.

I am morbidly curious why you lot think it is so persuasive.

I'm curious why you think repeatedly insulting me is a great idea. I mean "tankie" is a dumb insult, and you're using it ignorantly and incorrectly anyway so it's not that big of a deal. But why? Do you feel it's "Conducive to creating a space for civil discourse"?  ;D

Anyway it's persuasive because it's manifestly correct. Insulting me doesn't change the fact that yes, any functional society requires application of authority. Even modern anarchists recognize this in function, if not rhetoric. Past that it's a bunch of questions; how much authority? To whom? Is it just or unjust? etc.

[Chulanowa]

I don't understand why someone would do that.

I think trying to find a coherent reason for why a 16 year old vandalizes a landmark is kind of a waste of time. 99% chance he genuinely doesn't know why he did that, or at least had no particular reason. Some part of the partially-congealed mush in his headbone told him it'd be funny. Kids, yes including teenagers, are mostly irrational dumbfucks who do irrational dumbfuck things, and then only try to apply some  rationality to it after the fact, whether good or ill.

Granted most of the time they don't include notable landmarks in their irrational dumbfuckery, but that might be because most of 'em don't live near landmarks / the landmarks are durable / less irrational people can stop them before real harm is done.

Also I think comparing this kid to Ted Bundy might be just a bit of a fucking stretch, but maybe I just value human life over photogenic landscapes, YMMV...

[GloomCookie]

I would request that because we want to focus on the news and not a discussion on Communism, can you please move this to another thread? Thank you!

[Rinzler]

Regarding the Sycamore Gap - it should be noted that a man in his 60s has subsequently been arrested in connection with the crime (the 16 year old has been released on bail). For me, the motives of whoever did this remain unfathomable. We're just gonna have to wait and see, I guess.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66966187

[Beorning]

So, this happened in Warsaw yesterday:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/01/europe/poland-warsaw-rally-intl/index.html

Some estimates give the number of participants as 1 million... Meanwhile, the government, the state and other pro-PiS propagandists claim that the number was... around 60 - 100 thousand people  ::) Liars...

Is this march a sign of awakening? Will we kick PiS out of office on 15.10.2023. I pray so!

[Lilias]

Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman, the scientists who laid the groundwork that led to the development of mRNA vaccines, are awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-03046-x

The imminent antivaxxer meltdowns are going to be delicious.

[Beorning]

Speaking of antivaxxers, I read yesterday that the Covid vaccine contains HIV!  :o Oh my oh my, we're all doomed...  ;D

[GloomCookie]

Colorado has released a new minimum energy code and it caught NPR's attention which means it caught my attention, as this is my area of expertise.

The provisions they've introduced is basically a 28 page document amending the International Building Codes that adds requirements that for new construction (Note that it doesn't specifically limit this to new construction it just says inspections so looks like I have something to investigate in the morning at work) buildings both commercial and residential shall be Electric Ready, EV Vehicle Ready, and Solar Ready. So what does all this mean?

Electric Ready means that effectively, even if a building uses natural gas/propane in their current plans, they have to be prepared for the day that Colorado turns off the supply of natural gas/propane and go all electric. This is a growing trend that was started in New York and has spread elsewhere, though some places like Florida were already electric ready, mostly because you can't get natural gas piped to your home in Florida.

EV Vehicle Ready. This means you have a certain number of spots (which this document doesn't specify so another thing I get to investigate tomorrow) that must be EV ready. California already mandates that you must have a certain number of EV charging locations and some states like Massachusetts do as well, so nothing spectacular there.

Solar Ready. California is the only state that I know of that requires Solar Ready but currently none of the other codes require solar panels currently. That said, the 2024 edition of the International Energy Conservation Code does have provisions similar to California so it's entirely possible they're jumping the gun a bit and getting ready. I have a copy of the 2024 IECC I need to read through but honestly it doesn't go into effect until January 2025 so I'm not exactly in a big rush to get to it. I do know that California mandates you must have a certain amount of square footage (using a very complex formula) that must be designated as Solar Ready, effectively giving owners the option to install solar panels in the future but aren't strictly required. This happens because California's cutoff is 4kWDC (kiloWatts Direct Current) and anything below that isn't required to put solar panels or batteries.

In short, this document is going to cause headaches and is going to cause problems. Not because it's requiring more solar, but because it's vague and isn't helpful. The IECC is taking a page from ASHRAE which is taking a page from California's Title 24 trying to get ahead of the code. Unfortunately, while Colorado is one state that remains fairly up to date on the newest standards, not every state is. Oklahoma is using the 2006 version of IECC, Arkansas and Missouri are using the 2009, Texas' state code is 2015 IECC (though some places like Houston are more modern), so on and so forth. So while this is kinda neat, it will take a while to trickle down to the other states because energy codes do unfortunately have a cost to them that make implementing these codes expensive, and for economically depressed states, it tends to mean new construction costs are a major consideration that goes into what edition the state uses.

[TheGlyphstone]

https://apnews.com/article/congress-fire-alarm-jamaal-bowman-house-bc9c1cca01fa918999621e0f7eb27165

This baffles me. I have a very hard time believing that a competent adult would mistake a fire alarm for a door handle. But I also can't figure out what he would have wanted to gain from doing it on purpose either.

[GloomCookie]

He could be an idiot. He voted for the spending, and given it was 335 for, 91 against, there wasn't really much of a risk of his one vote being a major swing in the House.

[Missy]

Wait, an idiot in the highest house in the last!? How could such a thing happen!?

[Missy]

land not last *sigh*

if this was on my phone that wqould say 'last not last', no joke.

[GloomCookie]

McCarthy has been ousted from his role as Speaker of the House which is beyond stupid. Because of 8 Republican hardliners, Congress is now crippled and unable to function until a new Speaker is appointed, this leaves the 3rd in line for succession open, and with a looming clock before the next government shutdown nothing can be done until this is handled first.

But I'm not really shocked anymore. This is going to backfire on so many people so hard.

In other news, the judge in Trump's business fraud case has put a gag order on Trump, which means he can no longer talk about the case to the media. Los Angeles is using AI to predict who might become homeless and tackle the problem before it becomes one. FEMA is testing the emergency alert system Wednesday afternoon nationwide. And the Vatican is hosting a convention of top officials to possibly include women and LGBTQ+ members of the clergy.

So lots of stuff going on in our crazy little world.

[Al Terego]

McCarthy has been ousted from his role as Speaker of the House which is beyond stupid. Because of 8 Republican hardliners, Congress is now crippled and unable to function until a new Speaker is appointed, this leaves the 3rd in line for succession open, and with a looming clock before the next government shutdown nothing can be done until this is handled first.

[Missy]

McCarthy has been ousted from his role as Speaker of the House which is beyond stupid. Because of 8 Republican hardliners, Congress is now crippled and unable to function until a new Speaker is appointed, this leaves the 3rd in line for succession open, and with a looming clock before the next government shutdown nothing can be done until this is handled first.

But I'm not really shocked anymore. This is going to backfire on so many people so hard.

I really hope it does, I'm not calling the Democrats Angels or anythign ,they're really not, they're just not as bad as the GOP, I really hope everyone remembers this little maga stunt in a year, Republicanism has been overtaken by the Nazi's and this time there's no intelligent people to run it.

[Missy]

KUH-CHING!

[Keelan]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/05/politics/biden-administration-border-wall/index.html

So Biden's going to build (more of) 'The Wall'... and is bypassing federal laws to do it... namely a bunch of laws around environmentalism and conservation from the examples in the article.

Seems this is in response to "high illegal entry"

[Chulanowa]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/05/politics/biden-administration-border-wall/index.html

So Biden's going to build (more of) 'The Wall'... and is bypassing federal laws to do it... namely a bunch of laws around environmentalism and conservation from the examples in the article.

Seems this is in response to "high illegal entry"

it sure is interesting how, no matter what, the Biden Administration is always completely powerless to do anything about anything, ever. The man's hands are always tied. Wild how eager he is to have four more years of utter and complete powerlessness to do anything for anyone at all, ever.

[Oniya]

When I was a kid, there was a Saturday morning thing called Schoolhouse Rock.  One of the clips was about how the checks and balances system worked.  The metaphor used was that of a three-ring circus... and seems oddly prophetic in its imagery of Congress.

[TheGlyphstone]

When I was a kid, there was a Saturday morning thing called Schoolhouse Rock.  One of the clips was about how the checks and balances system worked.  The metaphor used was that of a three-ring circus... and seems oddly prophetic in its imagery of Congress.

I can still remember most of the lyrics to 'I'm just a Bill', and I can sing the preamble to the Constitution easier than I can recite it.

[Oniya]

I can still remember most of the lyrics to 'I'm just a Bill', and I can sing the preamble to the Constitution easier than I can recite it.

One year, Mr. Oniya's history class had a quiz where they had to write the preamble.  The teacher caught a couple people humming and demanded to know what was going on.  The entire class (starting with the boldest, but eventually all of them joined in) sang the song, including the 'tran-quil-i-tee-ee-ee-ee'.

Teacher collected the papers, and said 'You all pass.'

[Regina Minx]

This is a map of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, which would be on the Palestinian side of the proposed "two-state solution" that was proposed way back in the Clinton administration.

Essentially, right-wing activists took it upon themselves to colonize Palestinian territory. And you can see that they're not progressing geographically, moving from west to east in a systematic fashion. No, they're seizing crucial points throughout the territory, to make sure that Palestine cannot be formed without either being some patchwork state that can't function or that these right-wingers get left behind in any settlement and massacred, knowing full well that the state of Israel will protest this.

This is what apartheid looks like. This is Israel attempting to colonize Palestine and seize it for themselves. Well, when you create an apartheid state, one should not be surprised when the colonized strike back.

That makes, of course, the loss of life that will proceed from the outbreak of hostilities today both inevitable and regrettable and I have nothing to say beyond "I hate this."

[GloomCookie]

To expand more on what Regina just talked about.

This is CNN's bullet list of what is going on as of 1633 CDT on 7 October 2023, links are to appropriate articles for more in depth coverage.
* Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel is "at war" after Gaza militants launched a surprise attack Saturday morning, firing thousands of rockets and entering Israel by land, sea and air using paragliders.
* At least 200 people have died and hundreds of others are wounded in Israel, officials said. Fighting has carried through the day, and a fresh round of rocket attacks hit areas in Tel Aviv on Saturday evening.
* In Gaza, at least 232 Palestinians have died and more than 1,600 are wounded, the Palestinian health ministry said. Israel launched air strikes on the territory in response to the attack.
* Hamas claims it has captured dozens of Israelis, including soldiers, and videos authenticated by CNN show some of the dramatic seizures. Israel's military has acknowledged hostages were taken.

Because this is likely to get serious coverage similar to the current war in Ukraine, I am going to spin this off into its own thread located here.

[Beorning]

Election day in Poland.

This is the last chance we might have to turn this country around. If we don't kick PiS out of power today, Poland might be finished as a democratic country.

I'm worried, as PiS might be pulling a ton of ugly tricks, even if they don't actually win. The one potential problem is that a lot of votes posted by Poles abroad might be thrown away, as PiS seems to have deliberately made it difficult for these votes to be counted in time. And considering a lot of Poles abroad are against in PiS...

Overall, this elections were anything but fair.

[Missy]

Good luck friend

[Al Terego]

Best of luck!

[Beorning]

Ooooooh. Exit polls are very promising!

If the polls are correct, then PiS won again... but they won't be able to form a majority. The current prediction for the MP split in the new parliament (Sejm, the lower chamber, to be exact), are:

PiS (Law and Justice) = 200
KO (Civic Coalition) = 163
Trzecia Droga (Third Way) = 55
Nowa Lewica (New Left) = 30
Konfederacja (Confederation) = 12

So, 5 parties. KO, TD and NL have been long promising to form a new government together, as they are all the pro-democracy parties. None of them want to have anything to do with PiS. The only other party PiS could recruit for a ruling coalition is the far-right Konfederacja... but, even if these guys were interested, their result is thankfully abysmal. Even with 212 MPs, PiS wouldn't have a chance at a majority...

So, PiS won, but also lost. Let's hope nothing unexpected happens (like some sort of PiS dirty tricks), this awful government is out.

Of course, PiS loves their dirty tricks, so... we'll see. But the hope is back.

[Beorning]

Links for relevant articles:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/15/europe/poland-election-voting-intl

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/10/15/exit-poll-shows-polish-ruling-party-winning-election-but-opposition-government-more-likely/

[Annaamarth]

I heard this news elsewhere, Beorning, and thought of you.

Here's hoping we get to see Donald Tusk (the superior Donald T) on the international stage!

[Beorning]

Well, he has been the "president of the EU" for a few years now, so he has already had some international-level career :) Plus, he used to be our Prime Minister in the past, too.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts. Finally some hope. I'm only concerned for any dirty moves PiS might start pulling now...

[Humble Scribe]

I've been taking a break from Elliquiy, but I wanted to come back to echo Annaamarth's comments. Fingers crossed for Poland, because the PiS were the vanguard of the wave of populism we've all endured and it's good to see that wave cresting. All we got in the UK were some clowns who took us out of the EU and crashed the economy, but the PiS were trying to dismantle courts and rig elections.

[Beorning]

An update regarding the Polish elections: the exit polls turned out to be correct! The opposition won the elections and secured 249 MPs in the new Sejm (against 194 MPs for PiS and 18 MPs for Konfederacja).

So, it seems the opposition is going to be forming the new government... the question is, when exactly they will be taking over. At this point, the ball is on the President's side (unfortunately), as he needs to appoint the date for the 1st session of the new parliament - and he can set it even around November 15th. Also, the President has the first turn when it comes to appointing the new Prime Minister - who will have 2 weeks to win the vote of confidence. So, President Duda (being a faithful PiS ally) can appoint someone from PiS as the new PM. In the end, after 2 weeks, this PM would fail the vote of confidence, allowing the opposition to form the new government... but it gives PiS even more time to do shady things.

At this point, PiS members insist they won the elections... which is technically correct, as they got the most votes. But the three opposition blocs were running the campaign on the promise they plan on forming the government together... and they have the majority now. So, in practical terms, it is them who won. But PiS tries to sell the narrative that *they* are the winning party and have a solid chance at forming a government with... someone.

It's worth noting that this is not only something PiS politicians say - the same narrative is being pushed by the state-owned TV. Yes, these propagandists are still solidly on the side of PiS, boldly claiming that PiS won the elections and trying to scare the viewers with the evils of a potential opposition government.

Coming back to PiS - their leader, Kaczyński, has recently made a speech about the reasons for the election's results. Among other things, he concluded that the voters were "ungrateful" for all money PiS was giving away. He also claimed that the opposition received some shady "foreign aid" in getting voters. Finally, he almost openly accused one of the opposition parties of having been created by Russians...  *rolls eyes*

On darker note, there are leaks that claim PiS might currently be trying to use some government agencies to spy on the opposition politicians and try to disrupt the process of forming the new government:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/10/23/polish-government-denies-order-to-wiretap-opposition-ahead-of-elections/


As I mentioned last week: PiS loves their dirty tricks...

[Missy]

At this point it seems like an expected setback, but while i have no personal investment it seems overall, to be more optimistic to me, despite the obvious issues at hand.

[Chulanowa]

In the ongoing contention for US speaker of the House, we've got a new name in the ring!

Jesus Christ.

...No, really, I'm not just going "Jesus Christ," Donald Trump has endorsed Jesus Christ to be Speaker of the House.

“I said there’s only one person that can do it all the way, you know who that is?” Mr Trump asked reporters. “Jesus Christ.”
“Jesus came down and said ‘I want to be Speaker,’ he would do it. Other than that, I haven’t seen anyone who can guarantee it.”

Jesus Christ (okay that time was just exasperation.)

[Laughing Hyena]

Translation "I want my GOP minions to dig their heela in and delay the house so it can't pass anew budget much less keep the lights on with a bipartisan nominee.

My following will still vote for me anyway"

[Laughing Hyena]

Well we have a new Speaker of the House at the very least. Mike Johnson. For better or worse but better is all I can hope for. 

[TheGlyphstone]

Johnson is an election denier, anti-LGBTQ crusader, and generally the rest of the hard right-wing ideology package. I know there was no chance a moderate would be chosen but its still disappointing.

[Laughing Hyena]

Johnson is an election denier, anti-LGBTQ crusader, and generally the rest of the hard right-wing ideology package. I know there was no chance a moderate would be chosen but its still disappointing.

Exactly. Better is all I can hope for. His track record is terrible. At this point, the bare minimum in the house (keeping the lights on and nothing else.) is all I can expect. If a spiteful shutdown happens, I know who and which party is to blame. 

[Missy]

but how long will he stay speaker though?

[Vekseid]

He is an incredibly weak, inexperienced speaker.

If the Democrats pull off upsets like they did with McCarthy, he'll probably get ousted. If that happens that means the Democrats got more or less what they wanted for next year's spending and possibly some further concession like they did with the debt ceiling.

Alternately he could send the government into a protracted shutdown, to the point where some Republicans may be forced by their donors or constituents to drop their party and caucus 'independently'.

He could also come to an understanding of what the job actually means, realize he is not fit for it, and resign. This would surprise me the least out of any outcome.

[Kelindel]

Given that he is one of the main architects of the attempts to subvert the election in 2020 and is a devout Maga Republican, I see the chance of the government shutdown not improving with there being a Speaker now, not with this speaker. 

[ShadowFox89]

Johnson is an election denier, anti-LGBTQ crusader, and generally the rest of the hard right-wing ideology package. I know there was no chance a moderate would be chosen but its still disappointing.

He's also a young earth christian.

[Missy]

He is an incredibly weak, inexperienced speaker.

If the Democrats pull off upsets like they did with McCarthy, he'll probably get ousted. If that happens that means the Democrats got more or less what they wanted for next year's spending and possibly some further concession like they did with the debt ceiling.

Alternately he could send the government into a protracted shutdown, to the point where some Republicans may be forced by their donors or constituents to drop their party and caucus 'independently'.

He could also come to an understanding of what the job actually means, realize he is not fit for it, and resign. This would surprise me the least out of any outcome.

I mean anyone who knows anything knows she got her brain out of a packet of cottage cheese, but really how long can Johnson last when this is what gets taken seriously?


I mean ultimately either way I'm just hopeful this works out well for the Democrats next November.

[Oniya]

Omegle has shut down.

[TheGlyphstone]

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) is retiring.

2024 is looking increasingly fraught as we trend closer and closer to a static and gridlocked Senate roster.

[Oniya]

Well, here's one more seat that may be up for grabs.

George Santos has been under investigation for ethics violations committed during his campaign.  The Ethics committee has released a 56-page report on the matter, and Santos has said that he will not seek re-election in 2024.

https://ethics.house.gov/sites/ethics.house.gov/files/documents/ISC%20Report_0.pdf


The Wall Street Journal had this to say (paywall)

Mr. Santos “sought to fraudulently exploit every aspect of his House candidacy for his own personal financial profit,” the report said, adding that he sustained his campaign “through a constant series of lies to his constituents, donors, and staff about his background and experience.”
The committee voted unanimously to refer its findings to the Department of Justice, saying that Mr. Santos’s conduct “warrants public condemnation, is beneath the dignity of the office, and has brought severe discredit upon the House.”


And while the panel refrained from recommending any punitive measures, its chairman, Representative Michael Guest, Republican of Mississippi, separately announced that he would introduce a new motion to remove Mr. Santos from office as soon as Friday.
“Most of us have never seen anything like this — this extensive, this brazen, and this bold,” said Representative Glenn F. Ivey, Democrat of Maryland, who sits on the Ethics Committee.
In the hours after the report was released, a handful of Democrats and Republicans who had previously voted to protect Mr. Santos indicated they now supported his removal.

I just want to know where Mr. Ivey was between 2016 and 2020.

[ShadowFox89]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-kissinger-war-criminal-dead-1234804748/

Remind me again, what's the forum policy on celebrating someone's death? 

[Oniya]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-kissinger-war-criminal-dead-1234804748/

Remind me again, what's the forum policy on celebrating someone's death?

Probably shouldn't pull a Wizard of Oz musical number. 

[ShadowFox89]

I totally wasn't going to, honestly. Now excuse me while I put these gifs away....

[GloomCookie]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/henry-kissinger-war-criminal-dead-1234804748/

Remind me again, what's the forum policy on celebrating someone's death?

I don't trust anything from the Rolling Stone. Putting out an article celebrating anyone's death is just par for the course, even if I don't like the man.

[Oniya]

Rolling Stone isn't exactly a 'news' outlet - its focus is on the music industry, and it therefore has a strong bias towards the counterculture.  However, Kissinger's diplomatic record is fairly public.  His role in supporting South American upheaval is well-documented. 

[Hades]

Kissinger is another one of those that falls in the category of the quote falsely attributed to Mark Twain (it's actually from Clarence Darrow):

"I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

That said, to provide a summary of the war crimes Kissinger is accused of/admitted to doing but denying they were crimes:

Cambodia
In 1969, under orders from Nixon, Kissinger put together a secret bombing campaign in a country that the US was not at war with.  Over the course of 14 months (March 1969 - May 1970), "Operation Menu" saw several ground incursions into the country as well as over using B-52s to carpet-bomb the country without informing Congress about any of this.  But because it was seen as a 'success', Nixon did go to Congress and got permission to expand (or begin as far as Congress was concerned) much more extensive bombing in the country in an effort to defeat the Khmer Rouge with "Operation Freedom Deal", which would run until 1973. Both operations in the end dropped an estimated 2.7 million tons of bombs on Cambodia.  For comparison, a total of approximately 2 million tons of bombs were dropped during World War 2 by the Allies. 

Civilian casualties are difficult to verify given that most villages in that region were remote, with estimates ranging from as low as 25,000 to as high as 150,000.

East Timor
In 1975, Kissinger persuaded President Ford to give tacit approval to Indonesian dictator Suharto in regards to invading the newly declared independent nation of East Timor (which had been a Portuguese colony until 1974).  Kissinger said "It is important that whatever you do succeeds quickly" according to documents in the National Security Archives at George Washington University.  The following day, Indonesia invaded and lead to an occupation that left hundreds of thousands dead and lasted until 2002 when East Timor would once again gain independence.

Chile
Salvador Allende was elected president of Chile in 1970, at a time when most of South America was being lead by military dictatorships.  Unfortunately for Mr Allende, he was an ardent socialist and thus was too dangerous of a threat for Kissinger and Nixon to ignore.  Especially after Allende began to institute national reforms such as nationalizing key industries, providing national health care and education, and normalized relations with Cuba and the Soviet Union.

So Kissinger spearheaded things as the Nixon administration spent millions destabilizing the country to the point where General Augusto Pinochet was able to use CIA support to overthrow the government in 1973 and establish his own military dictatorship that would last until 1990.

And that's just from government archives that have been declassified to date that we are aware of.  There's no doubt there's probably more that either hasn't been sifted through or remains classified still.

[Oniya]

George Santos has been officially expelled from Congress, making him the 6th Representative to be so removed.  Three of that number were expelled for fighting for the Confederacy, and the other two had been convicted on bribery charges (Traficant in 2002 and Myers in 1980)

One of his own colleagues, Rep Max Miller (R-OH) has accused Santos, based on an FEC complaint, of using Miller's credit card and that of Miller's mother to get 'donations' of an additional 10,000 from the pair (5,000 each).

The vote was bipartisan, with nearly half of the Republican House members joining those voting for expulsion.  Notably, the four 'leaders' of the House GOP  (Speaker Johnson, Majority Leader Scalise, GOP Conference Chair Stefanik, and GOP Whip Emmer) voted against expulsion.

A special election will be held in New York's 3rd District to fill the vacancy.

[Lilias]

Benjamin Zephaniah has died, aged 65.

Time to go reread Gangsta Rap...

[Oniya]

It's not about 'life'.

A woman in Texas has been working her way through the court system to try to get an emergency abortion.

Kate Cox is currently carrying a fetus with a lethal abnormality.  It would last maybe days outside the womb.  She has two children from two previous C-sections, and any delivery performed would have to be through another C-section, greatly impacting her future fertility - and she does want another child.  She has been to the emergency room at least four times, and her doctor says that the abortion is medically necessary.  Earlier this week, a judge affirmed this.

Despite this, Ken Paxton, the Texas A.G., has stated that this ruling would not insulate the participants from legal action (including the possibility of the doctor performing the surgery losing her license), stating in his filing that 'Nothing can restore the unborn child's life that will be lost as a result.'

This unborn child's 'life' will be measured in hours.  Days, at the outside.  It was never about being 'pro-life'.

[Al Terego]

Quoting from the article:

“Every child is uniquely precious and should continue to be protected in law no matter how long or short the baby’s life may be,” the group said in a statement. “The compassionate approach to these heartbreaking diagnoses is perinatal palliative care, which honors, rather than ends, the child’s life.”

The women's lives, of course, do not matter.  After all, they are just delivery mechanisms.

For the record, I am not advocating violence against those "groups", because that would be illegal.
But I do wish those miscreants ill.

[Missy]

It's not about 'life'.

A woman in Texas has been working her way through the court system to try to get an emergency abortion.

Kate Cox is currently carrying a fetus with a lethal abnormality.  It would last maybe days outside the womb.  She has two children from two previous C-sections, and any delivery performed would have to be through another C-section, greatly impacting her future fertility - and she does want another child.  She has been to the emergency room at least four times, and her doctor says that the abortion is medically necessary.  Earlier this week, a judge affirmed this.

Despite this, Ken Paxton, the Texas A.G., has stated that this ruling would not insulate the participants from legal action (including the possibility of the doctor performing the surgery losing her license), stating in his filing that 'Nothing can restore the unborn child's life that will be lost as a result.'

This unborn child's 'life' will be measured in hours.  Days, at the outside.  It was never about being 'pro-life'.

Such is the way of the ideologue our 'virtue' above all else, none else matters, no logic, no reason, no reality

[Missy]

Quoting from the article:
The women's lives, of course, do not matter.  After all, they are just delivery mechanisms.

For the record, I am not advocating violence against those "groups", because that would be illegal.
But I do wish those miscreants ill.

why would i care about the needs of an object? after all

[GloomCookie]

This is a political move. Texas has a very 'pro-life' vocal minority that he's appealing to, which is why Paxton is doing this. He's going to turn this into a run for the Governorship on a very 'pro-life' agenda, painting himself as someone who won't compromise on the issue. This has nothing to do with Cox's situation, it's about his future political ambitions. It's why the New York A.G. typically will make headlines with high profile cases because the A.G. office is often considered a stepping stone to the governor's office.

I feel bad for Cox, and I hope she gets this resolved. It's bullshit that she's being used as a political pawn.

[Keelan]

Someone apparently was arrested for threatening to kill Vivek Ramaswamy, as well as "everyone who attends" the event he was at. Apparently this wasn't the first threat he'd issued to a campaign either, nor his first interaction with the local PD/police (per the article).

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/new-hampshire-man-charged-threatening-kill-vivek-ramaswamy-rcna129078

[TheGlyphstone]

Why has Dover become New Hampshire's pocket Florida? I didn't live in that area but I dont remember it being known for crazy people.

[Beorning]

This just in from over here:

Ever wonder what could happen if people let a far-right, anti-Semitic lunatic be a Member of Parliament?

Well, one day, that lunatic MP might decide to interrupt a small Hanukkah celebration taking place in the Parliament building. By grabbing a fire extinguisher and spraying the Hanukkah menorah (along with at least one person present). Then, he might go to the Parliament's voting chamber to ramble publicly about his protest against "a talmudic, Satanic, tribal and racist cult ceremony"...

Oh, f**k.

[Beorning]

An article on the incident, including the video that shows the whole thing:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/12/far-right-mp-expelled-from-polish-parliament-after-spraying-hanukkah-candles-with-fire-extinguisher/

[Oniya]

Is the expulsion mentioned the same sort of thing as the Santos expulsion was here?  Or is it more 'Go home and think about your life for a couple days.'?

[TheGlyphstone]

It says they took away his parliamentary stipend for six months, which seems to imply to me that he'll still be a member for at least that long. But maybe its a translation thing and that's a fine equal to said amount.

[Beorning]

No, you are right - "expulsion" means something else here. It means that the MP in question was banned from participating in the current parliamentary session. Which may take a few or a dozen working days. So, he will back, eventually...

Although the new government we finally got this week is not going to cuddle him (in contrast to the PiS government, which covertly shielded him from legal consequences). So, there's a talk of this guy being criminally prosecuted. Considering the possible charges mentions, he could get a nice sentence of a few years...

[Beorning]

Interesting things are happening in Poland now...

The new government finally took power last week (after being blocked by inane maneuvering by the outgoing PiS and President Duda). And now, they made their move against the toxic propaganda machine that the state TV, TVP, has become under PiS rule:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67772070

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/20/former-ruling-party-holds-sit-in-at-state-tv-as-new-government-takes-control-of-public-media/

TVP's 24/7 news channel went off-air suddenly! The pro-PiS journalists are running around TVP HQ's corridors, protesting! PiS politicians are screaming "Coup! Media censorship! Help!!!"... even though they were trying to destroy independent media for the 8 years...

This looks like madness, but it is unnecessary (IMHO). TVP is basically PiS's private TV station at this point, even though it's financed by the state budget. It can't go on like this.

[Missy]

This looks like madness, but it is unnecessary (IMHO). TVP is basically PiS's private TV station at this point, even though it's financed by the state budget. It can't go on like this.

I would just cut their funding and tell them they'll have to ask their party for money, but that's me I guess.

[Beorning]

Here's an interesting perspective on the subject:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/21/right-aims-wrong-methods-public-media-takeover-shows-dangers-for-new-polish-government/


Another piece of interesting Polish news - two important PiS politicians have just been given prison sentences for crimes committed around 2007:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/21/convicted-former-pis-ministers-excluded-from-parliament-despite-appeal-from-president/

They (and all of PiS) claim that this court verdict is wrong. Heck, Kamiński openly stated that the verdict "deserves only derision" and that he's not going to respect it.

And then, in spite of Kamiński and Wąsik's MP status having been officially  removed by the Sejm's Speaker, they appeared in the voting chamber yesterday and *took part in voting*. Also, Kamiński openly flashed a middle finger in the direction of the government's seats.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is PiS for you...

[Missy]

In good news: Judge blocks transgender healthcare ban in Idaho

[Beorning]

Okay, Poland's president, Andrzej Duda, has managed to do something even someone like Trump has not done.

Apparently, Duda is harbouring convicted criminals in the Presidential Palace - to stop the police from detaining them and driving them off to prison...

This is insane. The story is ongoing, we'll see what happens next.

[Beorning]

... and the sorry spectacle ended with the police entering the Presidential Palace, detaining the convicts. Finally!

A summary / explanation of the whole situation:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/01/09/police-enter-polish-presidential-palace-to-detain-convicted-former-ministers-holed-up-inside

I admit I didn't think that Duda would try to pull such a stupid stunt. Was he planning on keeping his convicted political buddies in the Palace indefinitely? Did he really think that being the president gives him the right to obstruct lawful execution of prison sentences?

[Oniya]

I admit I didn't think that Duda would try to pull such a stupid stunt. Was he planning on keeping his convicted political buddies in the Palace indefinitely? Did he really think that being the president gives him the right to obstruct lawful execution of prison sentences?

So, if I understand correctly, Duda is only President until 2025 (having been elected in 2015 and re-elected in 2020, with a two-term limit).  So at worst, all three of them would have had another year of occupancy in the Presidential Palace?  (Ironically, the two convicted ministers would be essentially under house arrest, as the police could just pick them up if they left, and it probably wouldn't count as 'time served'.)

[Beorning]

Yes, Duda is going to be President until 2025. Unfortunately, as he's going to cause trouble for the new government all the time... There are already fears that he might try to disband the parliament using legal loopholes.

Today, Duda gave a short speech on how "shaken" he is about this whole situation, that the two convicted ministers are of "crystal-clear decency" and that "he will not rest" until they are free men again. Apparently, he plans on complaining about the situation to foreign institutions and other heads of state...

Speaking of these guys' "crystal-clear decency"... Let me remind you that Kamiński was the interior minister who organized the press conference that featured an actual bestiality porn video - all the prove that the migrants abused at Poland's Belarus border are all perverts and terrorists. He's also associated with leaking confidential materials to PiS-affiliated media (to help them organize smear campaigns against the enemies of PiS). IIRC, he's also said to be connected to the Pegasus surveillance scandal. So... yeah. Decent guy, totally.

[greenknight]

Did he simply not simply pardon them? Is it because it's like in the American system that a pardon is an admission of guilt?

[Keelan]

Did he simply not simply pardon them? Is it because it's like in the American system that a pardon is an admission of guilt?

I'm pretty sure that's false; pretty sure that it's legally unclear if you HAVE to admit guilt to receive a pardon, especially since some people get pardoned specifically because they're innocent and were found guilty unjustly.

If you're talking the Burdick decision, my understanding is that the ruling that you could refuse a pardon was predicated on the fact that it could APPEAR to be an admission of guilt to the ignorant adoring public, for much the same reason people see those who make plea deals as also implicitly guilty, or depending on the crime simply being accused of it even if it's later found to be completely false.

[Oniya]

In this particular instance, the issuance of the pardon itself was problematic, since it came before the ministers had finished the appeals process.  If they had waived their appeals and gone straight to the Presidential Pardon, then - all done and dusted.  Instead, there was some backlash about how Duda had interjected himself into the judicial process inappropriately:  He should have waited until the appeal(s) failed before pardoning, as there was a possibility (however slim) of the courts reversing the lower ruling.

As a result, the pardon itself was apparently voided - but there have been further arguments that the voiding was inappropriate.

(The irony of all of this occurring in the context of a corruption case is just icing on the cake.)

[Beorning]

In this particular instance, the issuance of the pardon itself was problematic, since it came before the ministers had finished the appeals process.  If they had waived their appeals and gone straight to the Presidential Pardon, then - all done and dusted.  Instead, there was some backlash about how Duda had interjected himself into the judicial process inappropriately:  He should have waited until the appeal(s) failed before pardoning, as there was a possibility (however slim) of the courts reversing the lower ruling.

Exactly. If Duda pardoned these guys after they lost their appeals, there wouldn't be any problem today. But he stepped in before the final verdicts - so, the pardons he issued were ineffective. And so, eventually, the court picked up the case again and issued a verdict after all.

Two points of note: when issuing the pardons, Duda was smiling very cheerfully and admitted that he decided to "free the justice system from having to make the verdict in this case". Which... is not what presidential pardon is about, according to most lawyers here. Also, Duda rushed these pardons, as PiS wanted these two guys to become government officials at that exact moment (also, I'm not sure if they even would be allowed to take these posts, if they were lawfully found guilty of a crime).

In any case, a new development!

https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/01/11/president-duda-announces-new-pardon-proceedings-for-convicted-former-
ministers/

So... Duda relented and pardoned them *again*. While also claiming that he believes he had successfully pardoned them back in 2015. Go figure...

Oh, and since yesterday, PiS politicians have been stirring up a total hysteria regarding these arrests. And the wives of the convicted ministers appeared in a TV interview to talk of how shaken and sad they are. One of them actually said that she's suffering from low temperature back at home, as only her husband knew how to operate the heating... For crying out loud...

[Keelan]

So... apparently Alec Baldwin has been indicted by a grand jury on manslaughter charges tody:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alec-baldwin-indicted-manslaughter-charge-rust-shooting-rcna134564

[Keelan]

...and if someone would please fix my obvious typos, that'd be great...

[Beorning]

I have an honest question: why is Baldwin the one being charged? Didn't he just pull the trigger of a gun that was handed to him? Shouldn't a prop coordinator or someone similar be the one charged?

[Oniya]

The armorer's trial is scheduled to start next month.

[GloomCookie]

I have an honest question: why is Baldwin the one being charged? Didn't he just pull the trigger of a gun that was handed to him? Shouldn't a prop coordinator or someone similar be the one charged?

I think he's partially to blame because he actually pulled the trigger. While it seems silly, the responsibility is partially on him because he himself didn't check the weapon. He was the one handling the equipment and though responsibility for maintaining and preparing the equipment wasn't his, he is still the operator. It's similar to if a pilot gets into a plane certified by the flight crew and doesn't do his preflight checklist, and the plane crashes. Ultimately, it's the operator who is responsible for the vehicle or equipment.

[Oniya]

When the original charges against Baldwin were dropped in April, the court did not absolve him.  In October, the prosecution was looking at new evidence, and - as a result of witness testimony before a grand jury, have opted to file new felony charges.  There are also several civil suits making their way through the courts.

[Missy]

I honestly don't think he should be found guilty personslly, though I can't say I've reviewed the evidence on the whole either. I do agree with the procedure being followed unto it's conclusion as a formality however, even if it can be arduous for those involved. It is ultimately important to form a definition of whats expected of other persons in similar situations in the future.

On that note though, I kind of wonder what kind of training are actors given in these types of situations? I mean what level of responsibility should a studio bear for making the decision to use real guns capable of firing real bullets?

[greenknight]

I think he's partially to blame because he actually pulled the trigger. While it seems silly, the responsibility is partially on him because he himself didn't check the weapon. He was the one handling the equipment and though responsibility for maintaining and preparing the equipment wasn't his, he is still the operator. It's similar to if a pilot gets into a plane certified by the flight crew and doesn't do his preflight checklist, and the plane crashes. Ultimately, it's the operator who is responsible for the vehicle or equipment.

When this happened, there was a point made that he absolutely should not have done anything to check the gun as, consistent with industry best practices, it was a fireable offense. In the aftermath of onset deaths due to firearms mishandling, notably Jon-Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee, the industry standard was actors don't do anything except exactly what the armorers tell them to do. Whether that's true and whether industry standards survive judicial review is now to be seen. Does an industry standard absolve one following the standard of negligence?

On the civil side, burn the company down. They allowed an unsafe workplace to exist and it cost an employee their life. And the armorer crew, too, both the boss who didn't provide oversight and enforce standards and the jackasses who chose not to follow those standards.

[Missy]

On the civil side, burn the company down. They allowed an unsafe workplace to exist and it cost an employee their life. And the armorer crew, too, both the boss who didn't provide oversight and enforce standards and the jackasses who chose not to follow those standards.

I can kind of agree with this, my bias against corps notwishstanding.

[Al Terego]

I think he's partially to blame because he actually pulled the trigger. While it seems silly, the responsibility is partially on him because he himself didn't check the weapon. He was the one handling the equipment and though responsibility for maintaining and preparing the equipment wasn't his, he is still the operator.

A personal anecdote:

When Irene and I were a young couple, another couple came to visit.  Both the guy and myself had concealed carry permits at the time, and while I mostly kept my handgun locked, he used to carry it on his person.

He had told me that he just bought a new handgun and I asked if I could see it.  He took it out of the holster, removed the magazine, racked the slide twice and passed it to me.  I racked the slide twice, inspected it, racked the slide twice again and returned it to him.  He proceeded to racked the slide twice and put it in back in the holster.

By that time, the girls were looking at us like we're crazy.  It took me a moment to realize why, and then I laughed and explained that it had been drilled into us so many times that whenever we receive or hand out a weapon we must check and ensure that it is not loaded -- no exceptions -- that it has become automatic, which I suppose was the intent.

When this happened, there was a point made that he absolutely should not have done anything to check the gun as, consistent with industry best practices, it was a fireable offense. In the aftermath of onset deaths due to firearms mishandling, notably Jon-Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee, the industry standard was actors don't do anything except exactly what the armorers tell them to do. Whether that's true and whether industry standards survive judicial review is now to be seen. Does an industry standard absolve one following the standard of negligence?

Hindsight is 20/20 but he could have insisted that the armorers check the gun in front of him.  Then again I don't know the full facts of the case and I assume he did not receive adequate weapon training.  Also, a cursory Wikipedia reading of "involuntary manslaughter" does not seem to adequately cover this case, though prosecutors don't usually bring charges unless they believe that there is a good chance of either getting a conviction or negotiating a guilty plea to a lesser charge.

[Keelan]

So, who remembers the 'Freedom Convoy' that Canada had to deal with some time back?

Apparently there was a court case about it from the Canadian Civil Liberties Association and the Canadian Constitution Foundation where per the Judge on the case:

"I have concluded that the decision to issue the proclamation does not bear the hallmarks of reasonableness - justification, transparency and intelligibility - and was not justified in relation to the relevant factual and legal constraints that were required to be taken into consideration."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68038172

[Norwegian One]

https://www.reuters.com/world/this-is-moment-israeli-commandos-disguised-palestinians-walked-into-jenin-2024-01-30/

Israeli special forces raid a hospital in disguises, killing three people.

With everything from raiding the neutral grounds of a hospital, to disguising themselves as medical personnel, this seems to me like a pretty clear war crime. Thoughts?

[Al Terego]

Thoughts?

There is a thread for the Israel-Hamas war here.
Given the nature of the discussions that the subject attracts, I would very much appreciate it not spreading to other threads.
If you are interested in my personal take on the subject, you are welcome to PM me.

[Norwegian One]

Ah, my bad. Didn't know about that thread. Thanks for the heads up :)

[Oniya]

Not everything should be connected to the Internet.

Short version:  Hackers managed to infect the software in smart toothbrushes to start a DDoS attack against a Swiss company. 

Smart toothbrushes, y'all.

[Beorning]

These two pieces of news from America caught my eye yesterday evening:

Mother of a school shooter gets jail time

Woman stabs her boyfriend to death, gets community service

The first one is interesting. It does seem a good verdict, as it seems the shooter's parents really chose to ignore all of the red flags. Damn, that kid practically begged them to help him...

The other one is... mind-blowing. Since when is intoxication a valid defense? Only last year, I was following the trial of Taylor Schabusiness, who murdered and dissected her boyfriend. She got life, even though she also was high as kite during the deed. But this woman gets... a slap on the wrist? Due to "bad marijuana"? Huh.

Oh, and the third bit of news: Tucker Carlson will be doing an interview with Putin. Words fail me.

[greenknight]

The defense of involuntary intoxication is a legitimate defense and her self-inflicted wounds probably sold it.

As for the mother's case, I have so many frustrations after I've read local reporting and the components of the crime under Michigan's code. This is going to be a  drawn out affair and is absolutely going to provide strong basis for the son's appeals process, regardless of how the mother's appeal turns out.

[Keelan]

The defense of involuntary intoxication is a legitimate defense and her self-inflicted wounds probably sold it.

https://www.calcriminaldefenselawyers.com/intoxication-defense-in-criminal-ca#:~:text=If%20a%20defendant%20involuntarily%20ingests,3427).

Involuntary Intoxication

If a defendant involuntarily ingests an intoxicating drug or liquor, and thereafter commits a crime, then the defendant is entitled to an acquittal of the criminal charges if he or she can prove that the crime was committed as a result of the effects of the intoxicating drug or liquor (CalCrim No. 3427).

Involuntary means that the defendant did not know that he or she was ingesting a drug or liquor, or that the defendant was physically forced, or threatened with harm to ingest the intoxicating drug or liquor.

The effects of the intoxicating drug or liquor must be severe in order for the defense of involuntary intoxication to apply. Essentially, the intoxicating effect must render the defendant with the inability to understand the nature or quality of the act that he or she is committing, or render the defendant with the inability to understand the difference between right and wrong (similar to the defense of insanity).

The defense of involuntary intoxication cannot be used if the defendant knew that he or she was ingesting an illegal drug or liquor, even if the defendant underestimated the effects of the illegal drug or liquor. Also, the defense of involuntary intoxication does not apply when the defendant knew that he or she was taking an intoxicating liquor or drug but did not know that the intoxicating liquor or drug was different than what the defendant believed he or she ingested.

Note: Chronic intoxication (alcoholism) is not considered involuntary intoxication.

Seeing as nobody coerced her into smoking, nor did she not know she would be smoking, AND she knew damn well she was going to be smoking and did so voluntarily, I vehemently disagree.

There was nothing involuntary about her becoming intoxicated; she underestimated/could not expect the effect.

That said...

Voluntary Intoxication

When the defendant voluntarily ingests an intoxicating drug or liquor (or both), and thereafter commits a specific intent crime, the defendant might be entitled to either an acquittal of the crime, or a reduction of the crime if he or she can prove that the intoxicants rendered him or her with the inability to form the mental state of mind called specific intent. Whether or not a successful argument of voluntary intoxication nullifies criminal liability, or reduces the criminal charges, depends on the particular crime alleged (Cal Crim No. 3426)

For example, if the defendant successfully argues that he could not form the specific intent to commit the crime receiving stolen property as a result of voluntary intoxication, then the defendant is entitled to an acquittal of the criminal charges. On the other hand, if the defendant successfully argues that he could not form the specific intent to kill another person without legal justification (murder), then the defendant might have the murder charges reduced to manslaughter charges.

Specific Intent: Specific intent means to intentionally or knowingly engage in conduct so as to cause a particular outcome. For example, the crime of assault is a specific intent crime because to commit the crime of assault means to specifically intend to cause another person to fear an imminent harm. Common specific intents crimes subject to a possible voluntary intoxication defense include: Theft, embezzlement, murder, robbery, lewd acts on a minor, burglary, carjacking, check fraud, criminal threats, prostitution, oral copulation, welfare fraud, elder theft, indecent exposure, perjury, murder in the first degree (intent to kill), and more.

Note: There are several different mental states in the criminal law, including negligence, recklessness, willingness, etc., but specific intent means that the defendant meant or intended to commit the illegal conduct.

THAT is what happened, and in fact she was charged with manslaughter.

That said, community service and parole is *not* what I would consider the appropriate punishment for someone's life resulting from a violent offensive action.

[greenknight]

Seeing as nobody coerced her into smoking,

That is exactly what her attorneys argued

[LostInTheMist]

So it looks like the Justices are going to ignore T****'s actions and rule that his name must be included on the ballot in all states (where he registered at least). The verdict has not come down yet, but when it does, it's likely that a large part of it will be that one state should not be able to set national policy. If Colorado took T**** off the ballot and that were permitted, it would be allowed anywhere in the nation, and that could be used to make it virtually impossible or literally impossible for T**** to win an election, depending on where he was removed from the ballot.

The part they're ignoring is that T**** incited an insurrection, which under article 3 of the 14th Amendment, should make him ineligible to hold public office again. And January 6 was an insurrection in T****'s own words.

[GloomCookie]

Until he is brought up on charges and officially arrested, Trump is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. You may not like the situation, but our legal system still has to treat him as if he's a normal citizen.

[Regina Minx]

Until he is brought up on charges and officially arrested, Trump is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. You may not like the situation, but our legal system still has to treat him as if he's a normal citizen.

That was among the issues that were discussed. The Senators who wrote the language of the 14th Amendment were adamant that you did not have to be convicted of any crimes in order to be disqualified under that amendment. The language states that anyone who "engages in insurrection against the Constitution." Not "is convicted of."

Before Donald Trump, 8 people who were principally involved in the Confederacy in the 1860s were adjudicated to be disqualified for office. Five of them were never accused of or convicted of any crime. One person was convicted of trespass only, a far crime from any insurrection-style crime, and only one person on the list was convicted of crimes under the Espionage Act. (The data is lacking to determine if the 8th person on the list was convicted of a crime).

https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/past-14th-amendment-disqualifications/

[Regina Minx]

That was among the issues that were discussed. The Senators who wrote the language of the 14th Amendment were adamant that you did not have to be convicted of any crimes in order to be disqualified under that amendment. The language states that anyone who "engages in insurrection against the Constitution." Not "is convicted of."

Before Donald Trump, 8 people who were principally involved in the Confederacy in the 1860s were adjudicated to be disqualified for office. Five of them were never accused of or convicted of any crime. One person was convicted of trespass only, a far crime from any insurrection-style crime, and only one person on the list was convicted of crimes under the Espionage Act. (The data is lacking to determine if the 8th person on the list was convicted of a crime).

https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-reports/past-14th-amendment-disqualifications/

Forgive me. I meant to write 'mostly' instead of 'principally' in my last paragraph.

[Oniya]

There are two 'semantics' issues that are driving most of the actual frustration in this situation.  The first is the hesitancy to label January 6 as an 'insurrection' - until the Colorado judge finally had the temerity to call a spade a fucking spade, and not a 'soil distribution implement'. 

The other is the hesitancy to call the President of the United States an 'officer' - as if someone who had taken part in an insurrection should be able to become the President, but not some lower official.

These are both separate from the individual in question - or should be, if the Constitution is intended to apply to everyone.

[Oniya]

Never talk to Russia about historical borders.  Unless, you are the Mongols.

(humorous)  (#CrashCourse)

[Beorning]

Nice! :)

If I may ask: what was the reception of Carlson's Putin interview over at the US?

[Chulanowa]

Never talk to Russia about historical borders.  Unless, you are the Mongols.

(humorous)  (#CrashCourse)

You laugh, but I see this as at least a somewhat reasonable solution to the conflict. Return Russia and Ukraine both to the Tatar Yoke. They're rightful Ulug Ulus clay!

If I may ask: what was the reception of Carlson's Putin interview over at the US?

Largely indifference. Of course some media / tweetheads had absolute meltdowns over it, since some of them beleive journalism is just being a State Department Stenographer. But mostly, no one really cared. Tucker's a munchkin, Putin didn't say anything new, and the best outcome of the whole affair are the memes.



Tucker's gormless face always makes me giggle. Looks like a dog trying to do math.

[Oniya]

As much as I dislike the 'Sheldon' character, 'It's funny because it's true.'  The funny aspect kicks in when you know that the Crash Course history series was pretty much constantly pointing out the Mongols as the exception to various historical truisms.

Tim Conway used to have a schtick on the Carol Burnett Show where someone (usually Harvey Korman) would bonk him on the head, and Tim would get a slack expression for a second or two before collapsing.  Tucker always reminds me of that two seconds of 'he's going down...'

[Keelan]

So the US Department of Homeland Security Secretary has been impeached (reasoning I'm to understand is due to his mis-handling of the southern border): https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/13/politics/alejandro-mayorkas-impeachment-vote/index.html

[TheGlyphstone]

The article is a little vague on exactly what they're claiming he did wrong that qualifies for impeachment. Any idea what that is, assuming my cynical side is wrong and it's more than 'being a Biden appointee in an election year?' 

[Oniya]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-you-should-know-about-the-impeachment-of-homeland-security-secretary-mayorkas

U.S. House Republicans say the secretary is violating immigration laws by not detaining enough migrants and by implementing a humanitarian parole program that they say bypasses Congress to allow people into the country who wouldn’t otherwise qualify to enter. And they allege that he’s lied to Congress when he has said things like the border is secure. All of this together, they argue, has created a prolonged crisis that is having repercussions across the country, is squarely the secretary’s fault and warrants impeachment.

(I think you're right, Glyph.)

[Keelan]

The article is a little vague on exactly what they're claiming he did wrong that qualifies for impeachment. Any idea what that is, assuming my cynical side is wrong and it's more than 'being a Biden appointee in an election year?'

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-you-should-know-about-the-impeachment-of-homeland-security-secretary-mayorkas

(I think you're right, Glyph.)

The actual articles of impeachment are below

https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Articles-of-Impeachment.pdf

[Oniya]

Before my eyes started crossing from the sheer amount of repetition (I think I saw five separate but identical sentences about 'catch and release'), I saw that the fentanyl crisis was part of the 'reasoning' behind this.  I remembered seeing a news article about the relation between fentanyl and immigration - which seems to be minimal at best.  (While my link goes to a blog, the blog article collates a series of .gov links in a handy bullet-point format.)

[GloomCookie]

Out of curiosity, where is most of the Fentanyl coming in from? Like, I know China was supposedly producing the bulk of it and shipping it around the world, but is it really them or is it somewhere else? And if so, how are they getting it into the country?

As far as the impeachment goes, I doubt it's going to have major long-term impacts on the guy's career. Like, yes, it sucks he's being impeached and all, but last I checked DoHS didn't really progress you far in politics, unlike someone like Secretary of State. I could be off-base, I dunno, it's 3:30 in the morning and I should really be snoozin.

[Kelindel]

Out of curiosity, where is most of the Fentanyl coming in from? Like, I know China was supposedly producing the bulk of it and shipping it around the world, but is it really them or is it somewhere else? And if so, how are they getting it into the country?

As far as the impeachment goes, I doubt it's going to have major long-term impacts on the guy's career. Like, yes, it sucks he's being impeached and all, but last I checked DoHS didn't really progress you far in politics, unlike someone like Secretary of State. I could be off-base, I dunno, it's 3:30 in the morning and I should really be snoozin.

It is China that is producing most of the Fentanyl and then shipping it around the world. Supposedly a lot of it is being sent to Mexico and then being smuggled into the United States. Still I don't see that as an immigration issue (really the more they crack down and cut down on legal ways to immigrate into the US the more people will turn to illegal ways which means that there is more illegal immigration, more people being used as mules because they are turning to criminals for help to get across and thus more need for border agents and it spirals). It just needs to be handled intelligently. The drugs coming into the US is a complex, multifaceted issue that is frankly being used as an excuse by the Republicans to push an issue that they have been pushing on since well before the Opioid epidemic that they helped create with the rampant deregulation they they pushed.

[Oniya]

Handy maps of the trade-routes at the click-through.  The DEA is listing China, Mexico and India as primary sources, in about that order.  India ships through Mexico, so it's a little harder to judge, and China is head and shoulders above the pack.

[Beorning]

Important news:

Alexei Navalny, one of Putin's greatest opponents in recent years, apparently died in prison.

Damn.

[Al Terego]

Not to worry, he died from natural causes^†.

--
^† State assassination of political opponents is considered natural in Putin's Russia.

[Chulanowa]

I'm having a look at the Wikipedia page about his death, and...

"Navalny's mother was told that he had died from "sudden death syndrome""

A terminal fatality, if you will. Died of severe death. 

The dude was absolutely a garbage pail of a person, but no one needs to die in a jail cell for "fraud." 

[Oniya]

I'm having a look at the Wikipedia page about his death, and...

"Navalny's mother was told that he had died from "sudden death syndrome""

A terminal fatality, if you will. Died of severe death.

I was reading an old-time detective story, and the mysterious deaths were listed as being caused by 'syncope' (now used to refer to a simple loss of consciousness), and one of the characters told the protagonist that 'this is what they say when they have no idea what really caused it.  Died of fright, I say.'

Spoiler alert

It was murder.

[Beorning]

I'm having a look at the Wikipedia page about his death, and...

"Navalny's mother was told that he had died from "sudden death syndrome""

A terminal fatality, if you will. Died of severe death.

The dude was absolutely a garbage pail of a person, but no one needs to die in a jail cell for "fraud."

Please explain why you consider Navalny to have been a "garbage pail of a person".

[midnightblack]

Please explain why you consider Navalny to have been a "garbage pail of a person".

Not that I find the choice of words appropriate (nor that it would matter, apparently), but Navalny was a rather tenebrous politician at best. Hardline nationalist in his earlier career leaning towards racism, so pretty much the standard attitude of Russia's political establishment. He was also an initial supporter of the attack against Georgia and walked an ambiguous line when it came to Crimea. He spoke against the large scale invasion of Ukraine, but then again he was already imprisoned and didn't have much left to lose. Granted, he changed a lot for the better over the years and (unlike others I could name) had shown a remarkable ability to educate and reeducate himself. Far from a perfect individual, but also not quite the worst of the lot. Whether or not he could have represented any sort of political alternative was always a moot point in my opinion. The whole idea of running a Big Brother-like gig is that there is no alternative to it.

[Chulanowa]

Please explain why you consider Navalny to have been a "garbage pail of a person".

Amnesty International has stripped the Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny of his "prisoner of conscience" status after it says it was "bombarded" with complaints highlighting xenophobic comments that he has made in the past and not renounced.
A spokesman for the human rights organisation in Moscow told the BBC that he believed the wave of requests to "de-list" Navalny was part of an "orchestrated campaign" to discredit Vladimir Putin's most vocal critic and "impede" Amnesty's calls for his release from custody.
But on review, Amnesty International concluded that comments made by Navalny some 15 years ago, including a video which appears to compare immigrants to cockroaches, amounted to "hate speech" which was incompatible with the label "prisoner of conscience".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56181084

Specifically Muslim immigrants from central Asia and the Caucasus:

Here's our lad at the annual far-right nationalist marches he organized in Moscow:

The messaging isn't particularly subtle...




'Course his ultra-nationalist and racist stuff is what got him kicked out of Yabloko in 2007, which led to him linking arms with the NazBol (National Bolshevik) Zakhar Prilepin to create the National Russian Liberation Movement (NAROD). Which is in all essence just itself a Social Democratic version of National Bolshevism... a National-Socialist party, you might say.

At any rate. Like I said, no good he died (especially due to being imprisoned in the arctic for "fraud" like come on, is that the best they could come up with?) but still, a pretty typical example of a awful fuckin far-right political figure.

[Beorning]

It is true that Navalny earlier views were unacceptable. That said, he seemed to be evolving - or, at least, he claimed to be.

You also have to remember that he was doing some genuinely good work in exposing the corruption of Putin's regime. And he was trying to energize the Russian society into shaking off their passive acceptance of everything their government as doing.

Overall, he was seen as someone who might change Russia for the better - even by liberal journalists over here. So, he was definitely a more complex case that just "garbage far-right person".

Finally, please remember that - whatever his faults - this was the guy who willingly returned to Russia from abroad, knowing very well that he was putting himself at huge risk. He died, because he had the courage to fight for his convictions. Keep that in mind before you start throw the "garbage" word around.

[Chulanowa]

Overall, he was seen as someone who might change Russia for the better - even by liberal journalists over here. So, he was definitely a more complex case that just "garbage far-right person".

if one considers ethnic cleansing and religious purges to be 'changing Russia for the better," I suppose. And no, ne never "recanted" or "evolved," that's why Amnesty revoked their "Prisoner of Conscience" status from him (though they also revoked it from Nelson Mandela due to his conditional support for the use of violence against apartheid - so if you want to tell me Amnesty is too tight-assed, I don't think I could argue against that) 

He died, because he had the courage to fight for his convictions. Keep that in mind before you start throw the "garbage" word around.

[Keelan]

So a former journalist by the name of Timothy Burke was just indicted by a grand jury for "one count of conspiracy, six counts of accessing a protected computer without authorization, and seven counts of intercepting or disclosing wire, oral or electronic communications" alongside a co-conspirator for previous release of embarrassing unreleased footage involving Tucker Carlson.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/22/media/timothy-burke-indicted-fox-news-tucker-carlson-footage/index.html

[TheGlyphstone]

His alleged H@xx0r skillz were insufficiently 1337.

Though I'm also not sure what he hoped to get out of it. Carlson is one of those ultra-polarized people where if you like him nothing will sway your opinion otherwise and if you hate him, your opinion can't get any worse than it already is.

[Oniya]

if you hate him, your opinion can't get any worse than it already is.

I'm sure that there is something that he could do to make my opinion worse.


I'm just not sure what that is at the moment.

[AcademicCuriosity9110]

Their name was Nex Benedict. They were a nonbinary Indigenous 16-year-old and they were murdered over two weeks ago between February 7th-8th.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nex-benedict-oklahoma-ossawa-non-binary-b2500209.html

[Keelan]

Akira Toriyama, creator of the various Dragon Ball Series among many others, has passed away at the age of 68...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/akira-toriyama-dragon-ball-dead-rcna142397

[Laughing Hyena]

Akira Toriyama, creator of the various Dragon Ball Series among many others, has passed away at the age of 68...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/akira-toriyama-dragon-ball-dead-rcna142397

Yeah I saw this last night and just felt utterly crushed. That one stung as DBZ on Toonami was my afternoon during childhood. Dragon Quest was my gateway RPG and the artwork was iconic.

The Stan Lee of Japan is gone and it's gonna be a while to accept it. You will be missed Toriyama.

[Al Terego]

Dragon Quest was my gateway RPG

Then you absolutely must watch The Hero Yoshihiko.

[Oniya]

A state bank account has been found in South Carolina with 1.8 Billion dollars in it.  And no one knows where it came from or what it's for.

An audit of how the Treasurer’s Office and the Comptroller General’s Office communicate found they don’t do it well.

[Oniya]

Trump sues Truth

The social media network, that is.  He's claiming that the co-founders 'aren't entitled to shares' because of the way they 'mismanaged' the platform, delaying it from going public. Therefore, he wants the courts to strip them of their shares.

[Laughing Hyena]

This is why you don't get in bed with a snake. 

[Missy]

Trump sues Truth

The social media network, that is.  He's claiming that the co-founders 'aren't entitled to shares' because of the way they 'mismanaged' the platform, delaying it from going public. Therefore, he wants the courts to strip them of their shares.

The only headline that would be more hilarious is "Donald Trump sues self"