Interest Check: Legendary Monsters (3.5 DnD)

[ShadowFox89]

 Is it wrong of me to want to base my WereLion on Aisha Clanclan? >.>

[ReijiTabibito]

Well...there's a PrC I've been wanting to play for some time - Hand of the Winged Masters (though I seriously doubt at this power level, my character is anyone's hand anymore).  I wanted to do it using a Ranger/Scout multiclass, which would obviously mean that my mystical track couldn't multiclass, just regular prestige.

[Kunoichi]

Is it wrong of me to want to base my WereLion on Aisha Clanclan? >.>

Nope. :P

[indarkestknight]

Actually, you can!

What you do is have Scout on your physical might path and Ranger (with spellcasting) on your magical might path.

EDIT: Also Aisha Clan Clan is bomb.

[ReijiTabibito]

Technically, I don't need the casting ranger.  I can use the noncaster variant presented in Complete Warrior to get this particular PrC.

[indarkestknight]

Technically, I don't need the casting ranger.  I can use the noncaster variant presented in Complete Warrior to get this particular PrC.

I was just thinking you could get higher levels in scout and ranger both if you took levels of both in different paths.

[ReijiTabibito]

There's a feat in Complete Scoundrel - Swift Hunter.  It lets me stack my ranger and scout levels for purposes of favored enemy (the major ranger class skill) and skirmish (the major scout class skill).  Even if I'm something like Ranger 10/Scout 2, for favored enemy and skirmish, I'm level 12 in each.

This particular combination is something I've done before with a D&D character, but the campaign ended before I could get to the PrC.

[indarkestknight]

Yep but this way you could be level 24 in each!

[ReijiTabibito]

Just one problem.  That would take up both of my tracks and mean that I couldn't touch the PrC...on the other hand...*thinks*

[Zaer Darkwail]

Would Psychic Warrior count for mystic half?

Yes, more so as it gets divine mind's (a psionic paladin) stuff added on it plus full BAB in my house rulings (plus lots psionic powers to enchance claw attacks is nice deal and you get wisdom bonus being lycantrophe).

By the way we do use the psy/magic transparency right? Including things like use magic/psionic device and possibly psycraft/spellcraft?

For after long discussion with RL friend of mine I have decided that psionics and normal magic (arcane, divine etc) work as two different forces. In short dispel psionic does not dispel magic and vice versa. Unless you got magic mantle domain as ardent (or via feats).

Is it wrong of me to want to base my WereLion on Aisha Clanclan? >.>

You mean her? I see why not :).

What about taking a level of Feytouched?

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

You could yes, I presume it's base race some kind (like aasimar) which was put on class levels....or never was in 'non-class' level version but can work as +1 LA race like aasimar. Correct?

Well, part of me wants the extra feat a human character gets!  Yes, I know we're doing the 'feat @ every odd level' rule of Pathfinder, which means ten feats instead of seven, but still...though creature suggestions are welcome.  I was thinking a silver dragon, but...

Game is about monsters, not legendary heroes (albeit there could be legendary monstrous hero). But you can be closely human like draconic human, aasimar, tiefling, half-celestial human etc. Also as note you can play other than 'baby dragons' by that you loose all gestalt and class level stuff but get 30 HD limit (meaning you can be 28 HD dragon and thus be in old category and get play with +2 LA). You can enter dragon PrC's which you qualify but not other class levels. So in short you would be old category paragon dragon (plus any +2 worth templates or 2 levels in dragon prestige class).

So players can be dragons and thus badass in size and powers but being dragon covers most stuff about physical and mystical might.

Zaer, second question.  The book Dragon Magic - Hand of the Winged Masters PrC - mystical or martial?

I remember it was quite martial sort class minus that their sneak attack could cause fire damage....plus some minor mystic stuff. So I would say their martial PrC. Monk example has mystic stuff but is not 'mystical path' nor is warblade.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yep but this way you could be level 24 in each!

Actually I would rule you would need to have scout/ranger in single path to benefit from Swift Hunter (or other such feats which progress some class features while taking levels in other class). Kind same fashion as you can take mystic theurge PrC only if divine/arcane classes are inside single path (not be in two different paths).

[ReijiTabibito]

Okay.  Martial PrC.  Got it.  Have to keep that in mind...to go a little further, aasimar count as a +1 LA, so you would have to pair that with something that's either 11 LA or HD, right?  What's out there that we could use for that?

[indarkestknight]

You don't have to go up to the maximum, and most templates don't add HD. But you could, for instance, be a dark phrenic half-dragon aasimar with three levels in half-dragon paragon. I think that would get you up to... ECL 10?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, vampire lord is taken by someone I think (it was solid +11 LA). You need pick one inherited templates like natural lycantrophe (+3 + HD of animal taken), half-dragon (+3), draconic* (+1), unholy scion (+5). Then you could add gained template like lich (+4), vampire (+8), afflicted lycantrophe (+2).

*=One 5 level PrC transforms you draconic so can be gained also but need 5 levels in third path then.

There are some in savage species like tauric template (LA I do not remember but you did add your animal HD to yours or this case would occupy third path).

As note in case someone asks; Stone Blessed or the 'Ruathar' 3 level classes which give other race traits (or improve if you already belong to said race) get same treatment as racial paragon classes; they can be added to the third path if you so wish.

As mentioned, no need to fill all 12 levels in third part. Just think some solid concept which works well.

[Kunoichi]

For after long discussion with RL friend of mine I have decided that psionics and normal magic (arcane, divine etc) work as two different forces. In short dispel psionic does not dispel magic and vice versa. Unless you got magic mantle domain as ardent (or via feats).

...Does that mean that we're getting Power Resistance from the Paragon Creature template, in addition to Spell Resistance?  What about skills like Use Psionic Device and Psicraft?

[ShadowFox89]

For after long discussion with RL friend of mine I have decided that psionics and normal magic (arcane, divine etc) work as two different forces. In short dispel psionic does not dispel magic and vice versa. Unless you got magic mantle domain as ardent (or via feats).

That creates a WHOLE host of problems, including that most creatures don't have power resistance.

[Zaer Darkwail]

I rule that SR applies both psionics and arcane/divine side of stuff (same applies to psionic creatures power resistance working vs other magic as well). So golem is immune to psionic power which asks for resistance check.

Overall otherwise the psion and arcanist cannot interact each other's power and so hold both advantage and disadvantage. Reason is that in 1st and 2th editions and so on psionic was distinctively a different force in universe than arcane or divine magic was. Something entirely unique. So after discussing with friend weeks ago about psionics and DnD we end up agree that they should not be normally comparable to one another. Only being for balance purposes creatures with power or spell resistance are able resist stuff well (and so arcane, divine or psionic power which provides 'resistance' works against any source of magic; may it be arcane, divine or psionic unless otherwise specified).

[Zaer Darkwail]

However if this comes big issue to some folks we can go with that magic and psionics interact with each other without difficulty.

[Kunoichi]

Full magic-psionics transparency is generally considered the default when it comes to psionics in D&D 3.5.  I'm not opposed outright to making them different from one another in the rules, but I think that a decision like that would work better in something like, say, a heavily psionics-focused campaign where the rules difference can really be a central theme of the campaign, rather than a game like this one where you're already using variant character creation rules as a big draw for players.

Plus, it's already going to be a lot of work coming up with good challenges for the crazy monsters we're creating. ^^; Having magic and psionics be different will mean adding even more work onto that, keeping track of it all.  For this particular game, I just don't think it's a good idea.

[Kunoichi]

Sorry for the double post, but I finally started working on my character sheet.  Here's a quick preliminary peek...

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

The Sea Witch of the Grey Coast
NE Medium Fey (Aquatic)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision
         Spot +20, Listen +20
Languages

AC 47, touch 42, flat-footed 39
   (+5 natural, +12 insight, +12 luck)
hp 352 (12d10 HD + 144); fast-healing 20 DR 10/Epic
Immune mind-affecting effects (from Ghostly Visage familiar)
Resist cold 10, fire 10; SR 37
Fort +44, Ref +46, Will +49

Speed 90 ft (18 squares); swim 120 ft. (swim +27 untrained)
Melee 2 claws +46 melee (1d4+29)
   Claws treated as Epic for purposes of overcoming DR
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +21
Atk Options
Special Actions evil eye
Combat Gear
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 27th, DC 43+spell level)
   At will--ghost sound, mage armor, mage hand, message prestidigitation, shield, tongues
   3/day--blindness/deafness, greater dispel magic, haste, lullaby, major image, minor image, see invisibility, suggestion, ventriloquism
   1/day--charm person, confusion, lesser confusion, hallucinatory terrain
   1/week--bestow curse

Abilities Str 29 (+9), Dex 27 (+8), Con 32 (+11), Int 30 (+10), Wis 30 (+10), Cha 50 (+20)
SA awesome beauty, evil eye, exquisite fairness
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, fey bloodline
Feats
Skills Bluff +45, Concentration +36, Diplomacy +45, Disguise +45, Forgery +35, Hide +33, Knowledge (Arcana) +35, Knowledge (History) +35, Knowledge (Religion) +35, Sense Motive +35, Spellcraft +35, Swim (untrained) +27, Use Magic Device +37.5

Amphibious (Ex) Although the Sea Witch is aquatic, she can survive indefinitely on land.

Awesome Beauty (Su) This ability affects all humanoids within 30 feet of the Sea Witch. Those who look directly at her must succeed at a DC 49 Will saving throw or be shaken for 1 minute. A creature that remains in range and continues to look at her must continue to make saving throws against this ability. A successful saving throw while already shaken does not free the creature from the affect of the initial failed save. A failed saving throw while shaken resets the duration of the shaken condition to start from that round. The Sea Witch can suppress or resume this ability as a free action. This is a mind-affecting, fear effect.

Daylight Weakness (Su) When the Sea Witch is exposed to natural sunlight (not merely a daylight spell), she takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks, and loses 4 points of Charisma.

Evil Eye (Su) Three times per day, the Sea Witch can cast its dire gaze upon any single creature within 30 feet. The target must succeed on a DC 49 Will save or be dazed for three days, although remove curse or dispel evil can restore sanity sooner. In addition, an affected creature must succeed on a DC 49 Fortitude save or die from fright. Creatures with immunity to fear effects are not affected by the Sea Witch’s evil eye. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Exquisite Fairness (Su) The sight of the Sea Witch is so enchanting that anyone (other than a hag) who sets eyes upon her must succeed on a DC 49 Fortitude save or instantly be weakened, taking 2d6 points of Strength damage. This damage cannot reduce a victim’s Strength score below 0, but anyone reduced to Strength 0 is helpless. Creatures that are affected by this power or that successfully save against it cannot be affected again by the Sea Witch's exquisite fairness for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Fey Bloodline (Ex) The Sea Witch is considered a creature of the fey type when enchantment magic is directed against her. For example, the charm person spell does not affect her, but charm monster affects her normally. The Sea Witch can also activate magical items restricted to fey creatures.

Sanctuary-Bound (Su) The Sea Witch is mystically bound to her island sanctuary, and can never stray beyond that island's shores (about 60 feet into the water from the beaches). When she does so, she becomes ill and must succeed on a DC 12 Will save each hour or permanently lose 1 point each from Strength, Constitution, and Charisma. The DC increases by +1 for each previous failed check.

...I think I'm starting to see how our characters qualify as Legendary Monsters.  The Paragon Creature template is utterly monstrous.

Edit: It's a good thing, though. ^^ I think this is going to be a fun game.

[indarkestknight]

Dear gods.

That horrific appearance exquisite fairness has me more worried than the auras did. @_@

(The save DCs are a tad higher than my calculations indicate. I think it should be DC 44, since only racial HD which we're not allowed to take apply to save DCs for racial abilities. Though without accounting for increasing ability scores or items that increase saves... I'll still fail a DC 44 Fort save on anything but a nat 20.)

[Sain]

Looks like we're going to be wildly varying in areas. I think my sphinx is going to be rather easily affected by some of these spell oriented builds, but then she can't even get past her own AC...  I wonder if a big history check collector of stories will let the characters know enough about the other legendary monsters to have some grasp of their powers or are they just too obscure entities?

e. Personally I'm also used to playing with the transparency rule as well. I was planning on originally giving the psicrystal some wand wielding feats and let it use magical wands, but not using transparency opens up some very 'fun' things in a campaign of this power level... So basically I'm biased in this question and don't take my opinion into account here :P Just see how the rest prefer it.

[Marie Reynolds]

Hmm are you still recruiting people and if so what alignment restrictions are there if any?

[Kunoichi]

I think we're still open.  No real alignment restrictions, though the basic premise of the game seems to be more in favor of villainous characters, rather than heroic ones.

Dear gods.

That horrific appearance exquisite fairness has me more worried than the auras did. @_@

(The save DCs are a tad higher than my calculations indicate. I think it should be DC 44, since only racial HD which we're not allowed to take apply to save DCs for racial abilities. Though without accounting for increasing ability scores or items that increase saves... I'll still fail a DC 44 Fort save on anything but a nat 20.)

Edit: Whoops, meant to reply to this part as well. ^^; Exquisite Fairness isn't an ability I can turn off, sadly, but considering that it's a visually-based effect, I'm hoping I can cut it on and off as needed with a basic disguise check.

[ShadowFox89]

I think my werelion would actually be able to take her, if she can hit her before she takes to the air. Pounce is an evil evil thing.