Trump

[Callie Del Noire]

...Fox is seriously going to just not cover it..? <.< Damn.

Not real news remember? It’s all lies and misdirects. Plus you don’t want to show that truth to your core viewers do you?

[Various]

They are covering it. I just flipped over.

[Tolvo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8db5lriRfwM

I'm watching the CBS Live Stream. It is kind of hard to watch, I'm not sure this was a good idea. Mueller seems fairly hard of hearing and is stumbling over many words(Likely related to his age). He has been struggling to say the word "Trump." He has said "Trimp" and "Tremp" and this seems like maybe it was unwise to rely on his video and vocal testimony to convince people of the facts. People may take this as showing he was incompetent or unconvincing since he is struggling so much to hear and speak even if he can still otherwise do his job.

[Iniquitous]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-backs-controversial-push-for-bible-classes-in-schools/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=62933598&fbclid=IwAR1baO9qFVvdwGb7V_tywuw2MsB9ZfTMEjHbMnQ9iX3dsQZoNd67EOEzQms

So, our adulterer in chief wants to have bible classes in our schools. He is trying to keep the evangelicals on his side now that we are heading towards 2020.

[Regina Minx]

So, our adulterer in chief wants to have bible classes in our schools.

Controversial position: I'm fine with bible classes in public schools.
Twist: I for one would volunteer to teach it at my local school.

[Tolvo]

I would be vehemently against it unless they offer electives for every other religion. A general religious studies class is fine, I remember taking on in public high school in Illinois(Which I mostly had to teach after my teach admitted she was just repeating what her preacher told her and often she wanted me to talk about the books I'd read since she knew nothing about religions other than her own).

[Lustful Bride]

I would be vehemently against it unless they offer electives for every other religion. A general religious studies class is fine

Same. If they offer up lessons on as many religions as possible, or at least just major world religions (since I doubt they could do all of them) id be okay with it. It would give kids a chance to see how wide the world is and perhaps let them decide more on their own what path they want to choose. Rather than sheltering them into a category of 'Religion of your parents' or 'no religion at all'.  More things should really be a spectrum and let people choose what makes them happier, while also being taught to respect the choices of others so long as they don't hurt anyone or try to oppress them.

[Regina Minx]

I would be vehemently against it unless they offer electives for every other religion. A general religious studies class is fine, I remember taking on in public high school in Illinois(Which I mostly had to teach after my teach admitted she was just repeating what her preacher told her and often she wanted me to talk about the books I'd read since she knew nothing about religions other than her own).

I don't disagree with you. My point was that 'bible study' is almost always code for religious indoctrination and instruction. The joke I was making that an atheist amateur scholar in textual criticism and manuscript history could probably give a very excellent course in the study of the Bible from a purely secular perspective, and yet receive immediate pushback from the same groups now advocating for what they call 'bible study'.:D

[Tolvo]

Well Rep Mike Johnson for the Republican side gave the closing statements during the Mueller hearing and it is interesting how much he just lied outright about Mueller's report and testimony. Which likely he just wanted that to be the record and so that he could be quoted and his words shared as fact despite nearly everything he said being a lie. I'm not sure how effective the hearing will be, it did possibly help highlight just how much Trump broke the law but I'm not sure who it'll convince that already wasn't convinced.

[Oniya]

I don't disagree with you. My point was that 'bible study' is almost always code for religious indoctrination and instruction. The joke I was making that an atheist amateur scholar in textual criticism and manuscript history could probably give a very excellent course in the study of the Bible from a purely secular perspective, and yet receive immediate pushback from the same groups now advocating for what they call 'bible study'.:D

Little Oni took a 'world religion' class this past year.  I just had her confirmation that there was indeed a Bible in the classroom.  And a copy of the Torah, the Koran, and the Vedas as well.  The Koran was presented with a 'side-by-side' translation (don't know about the Torah).  This would probably make evangelicals flip their proverbial shit.

When I was a wee Oni, I took Roman Catholic catechism - because parents - and I will never forget the time my teacher there asked us what our favorite story in the Bible was.  I piped up with 'The one about the woman clothed in the sun'. 

She didn't know it, and couldn't find it.  Revelations 12, if anyone's curious.  I was also fond of the 'four beings in the chariots' from Ezekiel.

The point being - if someone actually reads the Bible, they run an excellent chance of coming across the parts that the indoctrinating types don't want them to see.  ('Love one another as you have loved me'  'Whatsoever you have done to the least of these, that you have done to me.'  'Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone.') 

[Tolvo]

I still remember the sorrow of reading the Koran at my school's library. When I checked it out I checked and no one had checked it out before. I read it and at the back was a dedication as the Koran had been donated to my school because of an incident(Which I checked to verify) where a local Muslim boy was killed by white Christian men in response to 9/11 and his parents dedicated the book to my school to ensure people would be educated on Islam so that would never happen to a Muslim child here again. I remember crying reading it and realizing I was the only person who ever checked it out, I also remember being considered as a possible "Sympathizer to terrorism and satanist" by the school for reading it. Which went into consideration for expelling me for being a "Satanist" when I was an agnostic atheist with no relationship to Satanism.

[Regina Minx]

Little Oni took a 'world religion' class this past year.  I just had her confirmation that there was indeed a Bible in the classroom.  And a copy of the Torah, the Koran, and the Vedas as well.  The Koran was presented with a 'side-by-side' translation (don't know about the Torah).  This would probably make evangelicals flip their proverbial shit.

When I was a wee Oni, I took Roman Catholic catechism - because parents - and I will never forget the time my teacher there asked us what our favorite story in the Bible was.  I piped up with 'The one about the woman clothed in the sun'. 

She didn't know it, and couldn't find it.  Revelations 12, if anyone's curious.  I was also fond of the 'four beings in the chariots' from Ezekiel.

The point being - if someone actually reads the Bible, they run an excellent chance of coming across the parts that the indoctrinating types don't want them to see.  ('Love one another as you have loved me'  'Whatsoever you have done to the least of these, that you have done to me.'  'Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone.')

Oh, actually sitting down and reading the holy book, cover to cover, is an eye-opening experience and a step that not a lot of believers do (and a lot of the time those that do find that their faith is lost, rather than reinforced). But a deeper meaning than what the text conveys at face value is not only much more interesting to my line of study, but it is almost certainly what the authors of the text intended.

Let me give an illustrative example. There is part of the Gospel of Mark containing something you often hear a lot of antireligious people make fun of; Jesus withers a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season (Mark 11.12-14). It's something that people with a little bit of knowledge make fun of because even if we're meant to believe that it actually happened, it's bizarre. Why wither a tree because it isn't giving fruit when it's not expected to give fruit? Well, the answer is to illustrate a point. Jesus of the Gospels, after all, taught in parables, telling a story without an obvious meaning that, at surface level, is odd and unsatisfying.

The parable Mark was writing with regards to the withering of the fig tree is one that symbolizes the Christian rejection of the system of Jewish Temple sacrifice. This is alluded to by the fact that chasing the moneychangers out of the temple is placed within the account of the attack on the fig tree. In other words, the beginning and end of the fig tree story (when they all come back and see the fig tree is withered) is wrapped around the clearing of the temple. Mark does this sort of thing all the time, wrap a seemingly unrelated story in a larger story. This is called intercalculation in faith literature. Its purpose is to communicate that one story illustrates the meaning of the other. In the case of the fig tree, the tree is a symbol of the Temple Cult whose time is now passed. Hence, it was no longer the season for the tree to bear fruit. and therefore God had no further need of the Temple/tree, and allowed it to wither...which it did symbolically in Mark's Gospel and literally as an outcome of the Jewish War of 70 AD (the frequent mention of the destruction of the Temple, btw, is the chief reason why it's held that the Gospel of Mark, the earliest, was written after 70 AD...quite possibly long after).

This kind of study is what I really get into and what I would love to teach in the hypothetical "bible study" if it was employed as Cheeto Jesus suggested. Somehow I don't think analyzing the fictional elements of the text is what they have in mind, though...

[theLeslie]

Just to touch on the idea of bible classes....

I went to private schools for many years, and went to many, many bible classes during that interim.  My knowledge of the bible now serves as one of the strongest reminders of why I am not a Christian.  I have absolutely nothing against Christians, mind you, I'm not like super proud to be missing among their kind, I simply have a deep understanding of what is in that book.  I wouldn't be nearly so effective in religious debate without the knowledge I have now.

Unfortunately in the context of our modern world, where we have a multitude of flat Earthers and hollow Earthers and general contrarians who want to pretend only they have the answer and the rest of the world is full of fools being lied too..  I don't see it as feasible.  If it were taught in school, I could only be comfortable with it being done above the 8th grade level, to people who have already developed their minds and aren't quite so trusting of every silly thing an adult tells them.

[gaggedLouise]

Trump is trolled with a doctored presidential seal:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-did-trump-end-up-in-front-of-a-presidential-seal-doctored-to-include-a-russian-symbol/ar-AAEPySa

The double-headed eagle is a long-standing symbol of Russia. :D

[Oniya]

The amount of fricken' detail in that troll is amazing.

The clouds over the eagle are now golf balls.
The banner has the Spanish sentence '45 is a puppet' instead of 'E pluribus unum.'
The stars on the shield in front of the eagle are now five hammer and sickles.
The claw on the left of the image is holding a wad of cash.
The claw on the right is holding golf clubs.

[Tolvo]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/pelosi-decision-impeachment-will-be-made-timely-fashion-n1035051

Nadler has announced the House Judiciary Committee has started an inquiry already into impeaching Donald Trump and are considering but have not made a final call yet on starting the Articles of Impeachment.

[Mathim]

Does Pelosi actually have to do something to get the impeachment started or is she irrelevant? Please tell me she's irrelevant to it, or at least that it would only be 'helpful' if she put support behind it and not required.

[Oniya]

First, the impeachment investigation starts - usually in the Judiciary committee.  This is what Nadler would be talking about. 
Next, the House of Representatives needs to pass the Articles of Impeachment, by a simple majority.  Once this is done, then the President is considered 'impeached' (analogous to being indicted)
Finally, the Senate has the impeachment trial.  To date, no impeachment has led to a removal from office - Johnson squeaked by with one vote less than the required 2/3 majority.

The New York Times has a list up of what Reps currently support impeachment (and those that don't and those that haven't made a statement.)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/31/us/politics/trump-impeachment-congress-list.html

If you are a US citizen, check this list for your own representative.  Contact them.  Let them know where you stand. 

[CopperLily]

I don't disagree with you. My point was that 'bible study' is almost always code for religious indoctrination and instruction. The joke I was making that an atheist amateur scholar in textual criticism and manuscript history could probably give a very excellent course in the study of the Bible from a purely secular perspective, and yet receive immediate pushback from the same groups now advocating for what they call 'bible study'.:D

I had a class like this in High School, because as far as they were concerned, if you didn't get the literary references to the Bible, you were going to miss out on *a lot*, and come Junior year the unit on Joyce was going to make no fucking sense.

[Tolvo]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/antifa-terror-organization-trump-far-right-killings_n_5d3cc877e4b0ef792e0d1ecc

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/455025-trump-considering-labeling-antifa-a-terrorist-organization

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-antifa-anti-fascism-terrorist-organisation-ted-cruz-a9023816.html

Trump has said he is considering declaring Antifascism a terrorist organization. Keep in mind recently through Barr they've also reinstated the death penalty for federal cases and are interested in considering antifascist organization and actions to be higher criminal offenses, we are in a very frightening position. On top of them possibly applying this to immigrants they might also apply it to antifascists if this becomes official in any capacity.

[gaggedLouise]

I had a class like this in High School, because as far as they were concerned, if you didn't get the literary references to the Bible, you were going to miss out on *a lot*, and come Junior year the unit on Joyce was going to make no fucking sense.

James Joyce? Did you study the Odyssey as well, to prepare for that part? :)

[gaggedLouise]

I don't know how many here have noticed yet, but by mid-week, in his first interview post the Mueller hearing, Trump actually called the Mueller inquiry an act of treason, high crimes of a kind that should never be allowed to happen again in the US.


Treason, of course, carries serious punbishment, ultimately death. And lo and behold, almost the same day Barr decides that executions will start to get carried out for federal crimes again. So Trump would like (at least in his dreams) to see Mueller, Comey, Pelosi and other people hanged for treason against the state?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/07/25/trump_reacts_to_mueller_hearing_this_was_treason_this_was_high_crimes.html (with full transcript of the interview)

Also, he said something similar during a press conference already two months ago, when he called the Mueller team "killers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfhXL7Tma_s

[Tolvo]

As far as I can recall he has been calling the Mueller investigation treason since around day one. Same for calling it the greatest witch hunt in history, etc. Remember it wasn't until 2018 when riot charges were finally dropped against people arrested for protesting Trump's inauguration. Which also included raiding houses and warrants to web hosts used by protesters. Trump has been an open fascist who sees and dissent from him as treason. He has called news agencies treasonous for reporting on him, he called Google treasonous, the FBI as a whole under Obama, Democrats as a whole, he calls nearly anyone against him treasonous. Hell he has called people who weren't against him treasonous.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/feb/06/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-about-treason/

[TheGlyphstone]

Heck, back at his last State of the Union address he said not standing and applauding him was 'treasonous'. So basically, voting Democrat is treason in Trump's America.

[Tolvo]

Frankly I would not be surprised if when anything ever goes wrong he calls it treason. I was about to remark about how if his pencil breaks he'd say the pencil committed treason but then I remembered he uses a big sharpie. So if he tripped he'd say the ground committed treason.