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Left-Aligned Conspiracy Theories?

Started by TheGlyphstone, July 13, 2018, 11:53:24 AM

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TheGlyphstone

In the manner of wiki binges forever, I was wiki-wandering, ended up reading about secret societies - got from there to conspiracy theories. I started thinking, and wondering why all the major conspiracy theories/theorists I can think of tend to be associated with the conservative/right side of the political divide. 9-11 Truthers, False Flag Shootings, The Deep State, Zionism (admittedly that one far predates the left/right split). But what about the left? The right can't have a monopoly on paranoid crazy people - that's both statistically unlikely and an exhibition of preferential bias to assume so, but I can't think of any conspiracy theories aimed at a liberal/leftist audience. The only thing that came to mind was the GMO foods panic, but I'm not sure where pop-science ignorance ends and conspiracy beliefs begin there.

Maybe Europe's got some, since their political climate is more left-shaded in general than the US? (our "left" being the average European 'center-right').

Skynet

There are leftist conspiracy theorists, albeit not always in the form of an "overarching sinister conspiracy." There are Communists who believe that the Soviet Union was a non-hierarchical worker's paradise and that all evidence to the contrary is propaganda by rich capitalists. And there are some Afrocentrists who insist that a high melanin content gives you superpowers and that North African Arabs, Jews, and Amazigh people are not "real Africans" and that the cultures they practice originated among Sub-Saharan peoples.

But the right is more prevalent for several reasons. One is that at least in the US and much of the West they have more political power. Alex Jones is on friendly terms with President Trump, Congressman Steve King unapologetically retweets Neo-Nazi propaganda about white genocide, and a huge portion of US military support for Israel is driven by evangelical "Christians" who believe that Jewish control of the Temple Mount is key for the Rapture. People who believe that the Holodomir was solely a naturally-occurring famine are not being voted into office or bankrolling millions of dollars into politician's pockets.

And in regards to minority groups (sans the aforementioned Afrocentrists) you really don't need to believe in lizard people or cabals of cannibal Satanists to know that there are people in power who really are after you. Look at the transgender military ban and bathroom bills; look at the immigrant detention centers holding children; look at how Latino immigrants and Syrian refugees are all maligned as rapist hordes.


Lustful Bride

I don't know if these count, but I remember once at my college hearing someone say that there were no gays in the middle east, and that was just a lie cooked up by the west to thumb their noses at the middle east.

Quote from: Skynet on July 13, 2018, 02:33:09 PM
3.) Tankies who believe that North Korea is a great place to live and has open elections

Oh god I remember once getting into an argument with someone who said the Korean war was just American imperialism and that it was America's fault alone, and he refused to believe that it was a UN Task force that fought against NK. *shakes head*

"There was no such thing, it was just American Imperialism behind it, just like always, all to serve the military industrial complex".

Oniya

I was booted from a 'Progressive Party' group on Facebook for trying to use logic against a 'chemtrails' post.
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Beorning

Isn't chemtrails a right-wing conspiracy theory, though?

I guess that some of these theories transcend political boundaries...

Oniya

Quote from: Beorning on July 17, 2018, 01:20:51 PM
Isn't chemtrails a right-wing conspiracy theory, though?

I guess that some of these theories transcend political boundaries...

Stupidity is non-partisan, I suppose.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Beorning

Believe it or not, the first Minister of Enviroment in our current government (he got fired a few months ago) went on record as believing in chemtrails...

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Oniya on July 17, 2018, 01:26:31 PM
Stupidity is non-partisan, I suppose.

That was the idea of the thread, yeah.

Eye of Horus

I was at a vegan festival they other day, where a guy at one of the stands sounded perfectly reasonable until he started claiming that the government authorised mercury tooth fillings in order to poison people and make them stupider...

It’s not unreasonable to think that your government prefers its people to be dumb and compliant, but come on now.

Beorning

Quote from: Eye of Horus on July 17, 2018, 02:31:43 PM
I was at a vegan festival they other day, where a guy at one of the stands sounded perfectly reasonable until he started claiming that the government authorised mercury tooth fillings in order to poison people and make them stupider...

Wait. I thought that's why there's fluoride in the tap water..? ;)

Eye of Horus


Polymorph

Quote from: Beorning on July 17, 2018, 01:20:51 PM
I guess that some of these theories transcend political boundaries...


Yes, not sure if it's a US/UK difference or just pure chance but the couple of people I've met who went off on one about 911 conspiracy were very left wing. One tried to tell me that the number off Jewish people flying as passengers halved for that day which apparently proved that Israel was responsible. Only took a couple of seconds of thought to reply that was crap because nobody had ever asked me my religion before boarding a flight so there's no way such a figure could even be calculated.

Eye of Horus

Wonderful. So they were not just conspiracy nuts but raging anti-semites as well!

Mechelle

Quote from: Eye of Horus on July 17, 2018, 03:39:57 PM
Wonderful. So they were not just conspiracy nuts but raging anti-semites as well!

The two do seem to be linked, all too often. Traditionally, it was the right who believed in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and secretive Jewish puppet masters pulling the strings of the world, but, all too often, anti-Zionism on the left can easily shift into anti-Semitism.

The other, similar one about 9/11 I have heard is that all the Jewish workers in the World Trade Center got advance notice to stay home that day. Again, the practicality of how this would have been done, let alone checking on who actually was absent, should rule out this theory for sensible people.

RedPhoenix

Hundreds of jews died in the towers. And the fact that Western business and government is seen as controlled by Jews by most Muslim extremists makes it more likely that the towers and the pentagon were targeted specifically to get at them than anything else.

That being said, left-wing nutjobs seem to have adopted most of the protocols of the learned elders of zion wholesale, have a five minute conversation with one and they'll start telling you that Israel controls the US government and that we let them decide everything etc. etc. etc. Zionism seems far more of a left wing thing than a right wing thing recently.

9-11 Truthers also I've heard it a lot more from left wingers who think that Bush and bin Laden worked together because it made both of their wealthy families richer.

But ultimately....

Quote from: Oniya on July 17, 2018, 01:26:31 PM
Stupidity is non-partisan, I suppose.

At a certain level of crazy it's impossible to tell what exactly someone's political position is. When you believe that everyone in Washington is a reptilian alien you're really neither left or right wing at that point.

Another thing is that conspiracies that involve not trusting the government are always more popular with the people who don't have control of the government. That's why so many anti-government conspiracies had a right wing flavor under Obama and now we have more of it with the left - although the fact that almost everything Trump's government does gets leaked instantly makes it hard to make up conspiracies about it.

And of course generally in the days of whistle blowers, smart phones, and people leaking everything from inside the government it's harder to make up something that requires no proof like you could do quite easily back in the day.

And then there's the point that one person's conspiracy theory is another person's astute observation. Some called the idea that Dick Cheney's company would be paid to rebuild Iraq after the war a crazy far out left wing conspiracy. But I guess that stopped being the case when it happened.
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TheGlyphstone

Quote from: RedPhoenix on July 18, 2018, 11:01:00 PM
- although the fact that almost everything Trump's government does gets leaked instantly makes it hard to make up conspiracies about it.


Unless that is in itself proof of the conspiracy, else how would everything get leaked so fast? ;D

legomaster00156

Quote from: RedPhoenix on July 18, 2018, 11:01:00 PMAnother thing is that conspiracies that involve not trusting the government are always more popular with the people who don't have control of the government. That's why so many anti-government conspiracies had a right wing flavor under Obama and now we have more of it with the left - although the fact that almost everything Trump's government does gets leaked instantly makes it hard to make up conspiracies about it.
Which makes it somewhat amusing that the right-wing conspiracy wheel is turning as hard as ever to discredit the U.S. government's "Deep State" while the Republican party controls every lever of power.

Polymorph

Quote from: legomaster00156 on July 19, 2018, 10:41:06 AM
Which makes it somewhat amusing that the right-wing conspiracy wheel is turning as hard as ever to discredit the U.S. government's "Deep State" while the Republican party controls every lever of power.

Those on both the extreme right and extreme left generally don't see any difference between the Republican and Democrat parties considering them to be one entity, the establishment.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Polymorph on July 19, 2018, 12:05:36 PM
Those on both the extreme right and extreme left generally don't see any difference between the Republican and Democrat parties considering them to be one entity, the establishment.

Yeah - the "Deep State" specifically is a Right phenomenon, but it's just the most recent coat of paint on the general conspiracy-belief of a 'shadow government' that's gone by many names. Deep State, Illuminati, the Jewish, Catholics, Masons, the Jewish again. The only change is who the theorists believe is the true identities of the conspiracy and which public mask they're hiding behind.

Lustful Bride

Imagine what a plot twist it would be if the Deep State was real but actually used these conspiracy nuts to bring down civilizations that they had issues controlling :P

The people so intent on exposing a conspiracy were actually puppets to it.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Lustful Bride on July 19, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
Imagine what a plot twist it would be if the Deep State was real but actually used these conspiracy nuts to bring down civilizations that they had issues controlling :P

The people so intent on exposing a conspiracy were actually puppets to it.

I think some of them already incorporate that into their beliefs - anyone who disagrees with them, including other conspiracy theorists, are either dupes or agents of Them.

RedPhoenix

I don't find the idea that large portions of the government function without any effective oversight that much of a conspiracy. Whether they're organized enough to qualify as a "deep state" or "shadow government" is more the question.
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Lustful Bride

Quote from: RedPhoenix on July 19, 2018, 12:34:20 PM
I don't find the idea that large portions of the government function without any effective oversight that much of a conspiracy. Whether they're organized enough to qualify as a "deep state" or "shadow government" is more the question.

That's more an issue of proper government control, overreach, and how much autonomy agencies and such need to properly function than the typical "The Jews/Catholics/Masons/aliens/illuminati control everything!" which is where it becomes a conspiracy theory.

TheGlyphstone

Yeah, bureaucracies and government agencies operating without oversight is just a fact of life. It's the extra flavor that they are secretly pursuing some sort of malevolent end goal that adds the conspiracy cherry on top.