Final Fantasy

[AndyZ]

For discussing the Final Fantasy series.  Some of us were already on this in another thread, but I figured it'd be good to start one here.

[Mossberg]

You spoony bard!!!

xD

[Eislynn]

I'm sorry! I threw everybody off topic!!  :-[

But now its safe so I can do dis:

Final Fantasy Classic WITH LYRICS

And dis:

Final Fantasy Victory Theme WITH LYRICS

[Capone]

Truth told, I really do miss the original Final Fantasy, or at least some of the stuff it did. There was nothing like the first moment your fighter did a ton of damage and the game said "Hit 2 times!". Then the number kept growing, and growing, and the Fighter continued to be awesome.

There was also such an interesting assortment of armor and weapons with weaknesses and strengths that seemed to die out as the games progressed.

A real shame, I tells ya.

[Chris Brady]

What series?  There are only four things that every Final Fantasy has had, everything else can be up for grabs in terms of plot and story and world.  Those four things?

Plot Device Crystals.

Airships (Which may or may not have a Cid attached to it.)

The Boss, AKA Bahamut.

And finally, the most recognizable feature of the Final Fantasy franchise:  the Chocobo.

Every game that doesn't have a -2 at the end of it has been a totally and completely different experience.

[AndyZ]

The first one I ever played was 1.  I didn't beat it (I didn't really understand the concept of level grinding at the time) but it was fascinating.  It was nearly double my life later before I discovered the joys of non-console roleplaying.

I played a lot of the games with the Final Fantasy namesake, though I didn't beat many of them.  I actually loved Mystic Quest, though I know I'm in the minority for it.

7 and 8 I played on the computer and enjoyed both, though my Disc 1 of FF8 is scratched.  I tried to start playing it again a few months ago and it wouldn't work ;_;  I remember how my computer was so crappy that I had to play 8 on a quarter-screen (1/4 the size) just so that it could handle the game.

9, 10 and 10-2 were rather meh.  I don't really remember much of anything about the stories, and my favorite girl from 10 got knocked up and didn't get to go along for the sequel, instead replaced by Generic Goth Girl #19417.

I liked 12 in many ways, though I can see the argument that the main character was just along for the ride.

13 and 13-2 were pretty meh, and 13-2 (very minor spoiler) had one of the worst things that you could do to a game ending: not have a freaking game ending.  To Be Continued?  Really?  Why do you hate me?

I want to play 6 someday, but I'm worried about how dated I know it will inevitably be.  Since I just replayed Mystic Quest, though, maybe I can get over it.

What series?  There are only four things that every Final Fantasy has had, everything else can be up for grabs in terms of plot and story and world.  Those four things?

Plot Device Crystals.

Airships (Which may or may not have a Cid attached to it.)

The Boss, AKA Bahamut.

And finally, the most recognizable feature of the Final Fantasy franchise:  the Chocobo.

Every game that doesn't have a -2 at the end of it has been a totally and completely different experience.

I actually like the way that they test out new things, keep some and drop others.  The mechanics are a completely different issue, though I can certainly go into that.

But then, I'm crazy enough that I enjoyed FF Mystic Quest, played a lot of 4E D&D and am looking forward to 5E of it.  Innovation is an exceptional way to find the best new ways to do things, even if some of them don't always work.

I can see the argument for having a more coherent setting, but it also means that every new game gives a completely new area to check out.  Zelda's followed this example in many ways as well, but it keeps it from having the feel that it's the same game with a few minor splashes of paint.

[Revenent]

*clears throat*

Well, to go off what was going on in the other thread, VI is probably my favorite overall, but I have a lot of "department" favorites: VI or VII were probably my favorite for story (since at least they paid a lot of attention to the characters), X was my favorite for gameplay, XII and XIII were my favorite for environments.

Least favorite? Although I haven't beaten it, II. Such a marvel of design, I got lost on the goddamn world map and had to quit.

[Will]

I would definitely say 6 is still worth playing, a very good game.  But then, I still love to play old 2D RPGs, so take that for what it's worth.  I think the characters and story are among the best in the series, if not the best.

My absolute favorite Final Fantasy, though, is Tactics.  It was pretty much the culmination of the Job system, which I loved, and the story was epic and well done.  Convoluted, I'll admit, but well done in spite of that.

I pretty much despised 12.  For so many reasons.

[Revenent]

I still feel pretty bad that I just never finished Tactics due to it being too difficult, and getting to a point where I just couldn't manage to advance. I'd go back to it, but I had War of the Lions, and now my PSP doesn't turn on anymore...

[SinXAzgard21]

I have played and beaten all most all of them.  11 was boring as hell for an mmo and 13-2 well I play it here and there. 

[Galactic Druid]

VI was the best Final Fantasy with the best villain. You can go ahead and lock the topic now, everything that needs to be said has been.  :P

[Shjade]

I still feel pretty bad that I just never finished Tactics due to it being too difficult, and getting to a point where I just couldn't manage to advance. I'd go back to it, but I had War of the Lions, and now my PSP doesn't turn on anymore...

There are a couple of bottleneck missions where people tend to get stuck: the Ramza vs. Wiegraf 1 on 1 map, and the cathedral rooftop where you have to protect Rafa from the vampire guy and his two horrible insta-kill bitches. Did you by any chance get stuck at one of those two points? If so, I offer the most sympathetic of hugs.

[Will]

Ramsa v. Wiegraf really was a pain.  My first time through I had to change Ramza to a dragoon and find a lucky rhythm with jumping, to avoid a few of Wiegraf's attacks and squeak out a win.  I died many times in the process.

[Chris Brady]

Personally, 10 lost me.  That was when I realized that Square (Not yet Enix) couldn't do gameplay.  I mean, unless it was a minigame, the most basic action hadn't changed from the FF2 (AKA FF4 in Japan) days.  You pushed a button and you watched it go.  All the flashy effects and music was there to distract you from the fact that combat was minimally interactive.

That's when I put my love of the franchise under scrutiny and realized it didn't hold up to my love of interactive mechanics.

But damn, if the games aren't pretty though.

[Florence]

replying to a few quote from the FF8 OOC thread to avoid derailing that one again :P

If we do a posting limit I think it is important we keep in mind how many folks are doing the speedy posting, as you said. This way speedy posters won't be TOO limited, but there will be enough to keep things more manageable.

If we're simply counting the numbered entries of the franchise, then I'd also have to say FF6. However, as similar as they are, FF4 and FF7 have a weird sort of ease in playability. It's easier to just get sucked into the combat and dungeons than it is in FF6. But the story and characters in 6 just propel it above all others, not to mention the music. I will always believe 6 is Uematsu's best.

I haven't played a main entry FF since 10, but I found 9 and 10 fun enough to beat. In fact, 10 was the first whose combat and gameplay I actually enjoyed since 7, even if I wasn't a fan of the story.

But when it comes to anything Final Fantasy, Tactics. Best one hands down. I could write essays about that game and how it excels in both gameplay and story.

God, just...so fucking good.

Mossberg: Confessing to beating Mystic Quest means you are one of five people who have actually played it. Google Stalking you has become that much easier. Be careful with such information, my friend. :P

-has also beaten Mystic Quest- :P

Also, remind me to put down Tactics as my next group rp idea after this one xD; Its my absolute favorite, but... I really, really wanted to do and VIII RP.

I was disappointed in 12 for a lot of reasons.... one of the main reasons being that the central character that you play as- don't ask me to remember his name- does almost nothing to effect the actual story... he simply watches it all and all the other characters are the important ones- it was a bizarre shift that I despised.  I want to feel bad ass when I play a FF!

Granted on the same note- I loved the monster chain system/hunts *nods*

I both agree and disagree. Vaan was a useless twat, and I'll never understand why he's in Dissidia 012 instead of, say, Balthier or Fran. But I think the overall game was amazing, especially if you try to think of Vaan as less of a 'main character' and more of a generic point of view character. I think the gameplay was amazing, and the OTHER characters were all brilliant, with Balthier and Fran being two of my all time favorite FF characters. The storytelling style was sort of a prototype of XIII's I think, the concept of not having ONE central character, but instead focusing almost equally on each character. But XIII did it a lot better, I think. XIII didn't give you one boring main character, and then a bunch of interesting side characters, it gave you a group of equally interesting characters, whom your perspective shifted between for the first half of the game.

With all the valid complaints of XIII, I have to say... it's not really that terrible in my opinion. Linear as shit? Definitely. More cinematic than substance? Oh certainly. But in my opinion it DID still manage to be entertaining. I enjoyed the characters (except Hope, the whiny cunt), I enjoyed the story... the gameplay was... sufficient enough to carry the story, but... nothing special. All in all its certainly not one of my favorites, but I did enjoy it.

[AndyZ]

Personally, 10 lost me.  That was when I realized that Square (Not yet Enix) couldn't do gameplay.  I mean, unless it was a minigame, the most basic action hadn't changed from the FF2 (AKA FF4 in Japan) days.  You pushed a button and you watched it go.  All the flashy effects and music was there to distract you from the fact that combat was minimally interactive.

That's when I put my love of the franchise under scrutiny and realized it didn't hold up to my love of interactive mechanics.

But damn, if the games aren't pretty though.

They actually can do gameplay; they just choose not to for the Final Fantasy series, for whatever reason.

Kingdom Hearts does a fantastic job of combining the elements of RPG and Action game.

Of course, the story of Kingdom Hearts isn't exactly better...

[Will]

I both agree and disagree. Vaan was a useless twat, and I'll never understand why he's in Dissidia 012 instead of, say, Balthier or Fran. But I think the overall game was amazing, especially if you try to think of Vaan as less of a 'main character' and more of a generic point of view character. I think the gameplay was amazing, and the OTHER characters were all brilliant, with Balthier and Fran being two of my all time favorite FF characters. The storytelling style was sort of a prototype of XIII's I think, the concept of not having ONE central character, but instead focusing almost equally on each character. But XIII did it a lot better, I think. XIII didn't give you one boring main character, and then a bunch of interesting side characters, it gave you a group of equally interesting characters, whom your perspective shifted between for the first half of the game.

I actually thought the characters in XII were about as static as you could get.  Balthier and Fran at least had personalities, unlike the rest, but they didn't really change or grow at all in the course of the story. : /  Basch and Ashe were entirely one-dimensional.  Vaan and Penelo were zero-dimensional.  The world was beautifully done, and I enjoyed a lot of the side questing and hunts (until Yiazmat.  Don't even get me started).  I also thought their stat growth was a little screwy; Fran ended up not being good at anything.

[AndyZ]

I'll try to keep this next post as spoiler-free as I can while still making my point.  I apologize if a few things end up peeking out which people consider more spoilerish than I would, but anything overtly spoilerish will be tagged.

Regarding villains: one thing that both 7 and 8 really had going well was fantastic villains.  This is most likely true for 6 as well, I hear fantastic things, but I cannot independently verify it because I haven't really played 6 yet.

There's always a balance with villains in games.  You can defeat them, but it can get very frustrating to have a good recurring villain who doesn't die no matter how much or many times you spank him.  However, if you don't have some recurring theme, it becomes villain-of-the-week and you don't feel any sense of accomplishment when you finally take an enemy down.

Take Final Fantasy 9, for example:

Final Fantasy 9 Spoilers

After you get through everything, the end boss is Death, or something like that.  Death suddenly pops out of nowhere and you have to beat the crap out of him after the guy you already defeated.  Wait, what?  Who are you?  Why should I care?

I may have just missed the point because 9 was one of the few FF games where I was able to beat the final enemy on the first go.  Everyone ended up with Haste, Regen, and some other crap, and I had to turn the game from Wait to Active and just constantly kept on hitting attack.

When I talk about good villains, I personally point to how they did it in Max Payne 1.  MP had a pretty nice contrast and comparison in that you started out low on the pole and worked your way up, each time taking out stronger and more villainous enemies as you pieced together the clues to the murder case you were solving.  You knew what your enemy was and could see its effects but didn't know how to find it, but the entire game left you with the feeling that you were pecking away at it bit by bit, always accomplishing something, until you finally take your foe down.

...Crap, now I'm tempted to start up a Villains post in the GM area.

[Shjade]

Regarding villains: one thing that both 7 and 8 really had going well was fantastic villains.

Fantastic how?

Honestly, I've never understood Sephiroth's fanbase. He's a psychopathic mama's boy lab experiment. What's the big deal?

Re: Ramza v. Wiegraf, the go-to strategy for that fight, generally speaking, is to move Ramza to a class/equipment setup that will let him move farther than Wiegraf each turn, then run laps around him spamming Yell and Accumulate until you've basically turned yourself into god by having infinite speed and attack power. Then you move in and kill Wiegraf in one combo because you get 3 or 4 turns before he gets one. It takes forever, it's boring as hell, but it's the idiot-proof "I really just want this fight to be over so I can get on with the game" strategy.

[Boxy]

Final Fantasy has been fun.  Have only gotten into it recently, and even then I don't seem to enjoy any of the newer ones as much.  I tried 10 for maybe all of 15 minutes(admittedly I only had so long to play it at this friends house, anyway, but I did watch the rest through NintendoCaprisun's Let's Play of it, and it looked ok enough.  I bought 13 right when it came out, and just could not get into it at all - the story and presentation, at least for the first couple of hours, seemed as bad as that of a Sonic game.  After my first game over at what seemed to be the first boss, I gave up and returned it.  The 13-2 demo, while a bit easier to understand and a bit better with some other gameplay features, didn't convince me enough to spend money on it.

Didn't know what I was getting into with My life as a king.  It's still fun and enjoyable, but also still a spin-off.

The older ones seem to be a lot more suited towards me.  I've got 1, 2(4?), and 3(6?), as well as 5 on the GBA.  Almost done with 6, and got pretty far in both 4 and 5.  Haven't tried much of 1, and Mystic Quest seems to just be another spin-off kind of game.  Not sure if I have a favorite, as there are things I like about 4, 5, and 6 that each of the others don't have.

[Maiz]

I got my start in Final Fantasy with X-2 (a relative saw it was girl centered and bought it for me lol), and then X, then VII, then I, II.

My favorite is 12. I'm replaying it right now. I like the voice acting, the political plot, and the gaming system. Although, when I first started to play it the first time it made me so angry that I threw my controller.

I'm not a fan of Vaan as much as the others, but I think I read somewhere that Basch was supposed to be the lead but wasnt marketable enough?

[SinXAzgard21]

I got my start in Final Fantasy with X-2 (a relative saw it was girl centered and bought it for me lol), and then X, then VII, then I, II.

My favorite is 12. I'm replaying it right now. I like the voice acting, the political plot, and the gaming system. Although, when I first started to play it the first time it made me so angry that I threw my controller.

I'm not a fan of Vaan as much as the others, but I think I read somewhere that Basch was supposed to be the lead but wasnt marketable enough?

What, Final Fantasy not having an emo girl looking lead? /sarcasm....  That is how that would have went.

[Silverfyre]

I started with the NES original, Final Fantasy.  I grew up on the NES and the SNES, right in the middle of Squaresoft's hay day.  I will forever cherish FF II (IV) and III (VI) as the best in the series.  I loved IX and VII was worth a play-through but otherwise, I haven't really been much of a fan of the others.  X-2 was basically a "Bitch stole my clothes!" Barbie clothing simulator. 

[Inkidu]

I started at about five with Final Fantasy. Played IV (as II) personal favorite of all time. I have bought it for every system I have). Played VIII (loved it, despite the majority) then VII (don't love it as much as some people think I should), I adore IX. It's like the magnum opus of the pre-PlayStation games. It has all the allusions to the series. I like the system. X was impressive in a lot of ways. XII was horrible and shook my faith. XIII put the nail in the coffin.

Ah, good times.

[Revenent]

Hey, anyone else remember Versus XIII and Agito XIII? You know, those two spin-offs that were announced about four decades ago?

[Maiz]

What, Final Fantasy not having an emo girl looking lead? /sarcasm....  That is how that would have went.

Haha I think it was more executives didn't think a 30 something would be relatable to teenagers.

[Inkidu]

Hey, anyone else remember Versus XIII and Agito XIII? You know, those two spin-offs that were announced about four decades ago?

I think one of them became Type O. Still, anything related to 13 is terrible in my totally unfair but self-justified opinion. :\

[Revenent]

I enjoyed XIII, actually. More focused on being cinematic than having a deep combat system, sure, but let's face it, Final Fantasy combat has always been very shallow, and it was nice to see a menu-based RPG in this era where even the RPGs have become first-person.

[Caitlin]

How many of you had to cry in real life when Sephiroth killed Aerith?

*Raises hand.*

It's still one of the most memorable scenes I ever witnessed in a game and whenever I hear her theme play I always become a bit silent.

[Silverfyre]

I was more pissed at how much money I had just sunk into Aerith's equipment than anything else. The poor wife had a very similar (and more expensive) encounter with such a scene.  Stupid no-warning, no-deequipping game!

[Caitlin]

Yeah, that did kind of suck, but luckily I saved the game at nearly every corner, a quick reload of the save file and removing her equipment (and materia!) fixed that problem.

[SinXAzgard21]

I didn't cry, I never used her.  So that was just one less person for me to worry about.

[Silverfyre]

Heh, not even a bit of empathy for poor Aerith, eh?

It was a powerful moment but not unexpected, honestly.  The writing of VII was predictable for the most part but the character's death at least didn't lack depth.

[AndyZ]

Do try to be careful with the spoilers, please, folks.  Some people may not have played 7.  I know I didn't play 6 and would be very sad if I had stuff spoiled for me.

[Shjade]

I found Cosmo Canyon and Nanaki's emotional baggage more interesting than Aeris' whole storyline.

[SinXAzgard21]

Heh, not even a bit of empathy for poor Aerith, eh?

It was a powerful moment but not unexpected, honestly.  The writing of VII was predictable for the most part but the character's death at least didn't lack depth.

Meh I moved on.   Pretty much after that part of the game I just was playing to finish it.  And after 100% completion, beating the game with every party member, not ever combination, I've pretty much stop caring about the VII craze everyone is in.  VI was good but I wasn't to thrilled about it, IX is my favorite.

[Inkidu]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Yeah, didn't care about Aeris' death. Never, ever used her. Yuffie was a better white mage than her. :\ Plus the death is kind of out of left field. Plus, technically Sephiroth failed she still squicked that prayer in there.

I love IX, for once the main hero was a chivalrous pervert! A lot of IX's characters blew VII's out of the water in terms of personality.

[Chris Brady]

Hey, anyone else remember Versus XIII and Agito XIII? You know, those two spin-offs that were announced about four decades ago?

No and neither does Square. ;D

[Florence]

Let's be frankly honest.

What happens to Aeriths isn't a spoiler anymore.

You could only have a vague, vague understanding of what Final Fantasy is.

You know what happened to her, just like you know what happened to Dumbledore.

[Will]

Let's be frankly honest.

What happens to Aeriths isn't a spoiler anymore.

You could only have a vague, vague understanding of what Final Fantasy is.

You know what happened to her, just like you know what happened to Dumbledore.

Truth.  Should we have to spoiler discussions about Luke Skywalker's parentage, while we're at it?

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Oedipus marries his mom, guys.

[Caitlin]

Hehe, yeah, if people still didn't play through FF VII by now they likely never will either. The game was published in 1995 or so?

[Inkidu]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItWasHisSled

Yeah, I'm pretty sure by now it's out of the spoiler closet guys.

[Shjade]

Wait wait, hold on, back up.


Who's Dumbledore?

[Silverfyre]

1997 actually.

Gandalf's gay first cousin.  I believe he was in the Dresden Files novels.

[Shjade]

Gandalf's gay first cousin.  I believe he was in the Dresden Files novels.

You sure that wasn't Merlin? :|

[AndyZ]

Dumbledore is the headmaster of the school in the Harry Potter series.

Towards the end of the series, a bunch of people found out a spoiler and spread it around like wildfire.  The victims were understandably not happy.

I actually had the end of King Kong ruined for me by this Penny Arcade comic, which was making a point about spoilers and movies:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

I've also had a lot of stuff ruined for me that was more recent, like Game of Thrones and season 2 of Sherlock.  The arguments were that the books have been out even though the TV series hadn't gotten out to that point yet, and that the stuff was already out in England even though it hadn't been released in America yet, respectively.  Neither was comforting.

The way I see it, if you haven't seen it, it's still new to you.  I've actually avoided making Star Wars references involving Vader and Luke just because I didn't want to take the chance, although admittedly it's unlikely that people have been able to avoid that spoiler for this long.

Your own opinions may vary.

[Silverfyre]

Han is Chewie's brother. 

Shit, spoilers!

[Chris Brady]

Be nice, Silver.

However, AndyZ, they do have a point, avoiding spoilers over a topic that's more than five years old is silly and pointless.  If you are I here you should expect people to give out the information pertaining to the game, and that includes Spoilers.  Maybe you should edit the title if you're worried so much about it...

[Florence]

I've also had a lot of stuff ruined for me that was more recent, like Game of Thrones and season 2 of Sherlock.  The arguments were that the books have been out even though the TV series hadn't gotten out to that point yet, and that the stuff was already out in England even though it hadn't been released in America yet, respectively.  Neither was comforting.

If anyone ruins Game of Thrones for me, I will rip out their eyes with a rusty spoon :U

[AndyZ]

Mostly I'm just hoping people don't ruin 6 for me until I have the time to play it.

[Silverfyre]

I was just teasing.

Yes, play VI if you get the chance.  It is well worth it. 

[Will]

Aeris' death is pretty much iconic at this point; that's the difference, in my eyes.  It's a part of popular video game culture.  It's not just a surprising turn of events in some random game, it's a defining moment of a defining installment of a defining series of games.  I mean, seriously.  It's not my favorite FF, but VII was probably more popular over a wider market than any other installment before or since.  That's why the plot is so well known at this point.  VII was huge.  Ffs, I traded in my N64 and bought a Playstation just to play it. :P

There's no such iconic moment in VI, even though I think it's a better game.  The difference is that VI was never as popular as VII at its height, so the story never wormed its way into the public consciousness the same way.

Tl;dr - Not all spoilers are created equal.

[Silverfyre]

Er, I can think of two or three "iconic moments" that might not be as ingrained in the popular geek culture but were just as potent for me from VI.  I think it was a far better story than VII too, but again, just my opinion. :)

[Will]

Well, like I said, I do prefer VI myself.  In pretty much every way, haha.  I mean iconic in the sense of being well-known, widely discussed, and referred to.  VII was more popular; therefore, avoiding spoilers for it is going to be a little (or a lot) more difficult (or impossible, really).

But, uh.. yeah.  Definitely give VI a shot!  The sooner you play it, the sooner you don't have to worry about spoilers! :D

[Silverfyre]

Oh, I get what you are saying!  I just wish VI was more popular than VII since it is a vastly superior game in my opinion.  Fantastic characters and come on, best villain ever.

[Wolfy]

Hey, anyone else remember Versus XIII and Agito XIII? You know, those two spin-offs that were announced about four decades ago?

Agito XIII is on Hiatus indefinetly, as far as I know.

And Versus XIII is now Final Fantasy XV.

So...I dunno, I think they're dropping the connection to Final Fantasy XIII....

and if they aren't, this will be the first time in the series that an actual numbered entry is connected to a former numbered Entry, rather than something like XIII-2 or X-2.

[Will]

Oh, I get what you are saying!  I just wish VI was more popular than VII since it is a vastly superior game in my opinion.  Fantastic characters and come on, best villain ever.

Agreed!  I even kinda prefer the graphics of VI, honestly.  It was pretty much the pinnacle of the 2D games in every way, including graphics.  It was really pretty.  But VII was the absolute beginning of 3D Final Fantasy, and it shows.  It's very blocky. : /  I would say VII is more dated at this point than VI, for that reason.

[Fenrir]

Final Fantasy Jokes - Because I had to share!

[Silverfyre]

They could have stopped at 16 bits graphics and I'd have been happy.

[Inkidu]

And Versus XIII is now Final Fantasy XV.

That's bunk. It was rumor and Word of God said that wasn't happening.

[SinXAzgard21]

http://ffxvhome.com/

[Inkidu]

http://ffxvhome.com/

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/117546-UPDATE-Final-Fantasy-Versus-XIII-Becomes-FF15

[Shjade]

There's no such iconic moment in VI, even though I think it's a better game.  The difference is that VI was never as popular as VII at its height, so the story never wormed its way into the public consciousness the same way.

[noembed]I can think of one and I haven't even played VI.[/noembed]

It isn't a "spoiler" moment, though. Just one that comes up a lot when FF is being discussed.

[Florence]

[noembed]I can think of one and I haven't even played VI.[/noembed]

It isn't a "spoiler" moment, though. Just one that comes up a lot when FF is being discussed.

Hell, what about the opening of VI?

SNES Final Fantasy VI - Intro

[Will]

[noembed]I can think of one and I haven't even played VI.[/noembed]

It isn't a "spoiler" moment, though. Just one that comes up a lot when FF is being discussed.

I would say the opening is a better example.  But neither of those scenes is discussed or referred to anywhere near as frequently as the Aeris-kebab.

[SinXAzgard21]

It is because visually the Sepiroth's back stab is visually better for a lot of people.

[Eislynn]

I think the scrolling snowfield from 6 is more recognizable than one would think. When I attended the Distant Worlds Concert and they closed out the concert with Terra's theme, they had the orchestral credits scrolling up on that snowfield... A great big "OOH!" rose out of the crowd - Many people do recognize it - but a subtler scene like that will have a subtler appreciation I think.

On a side note... The only better part of that concert for me was listening to the entire Maria and Draco Opera Suite live whilst wearing my Celes Chere opera gown that I made, and sitting next to my husband dressed as a suit-wearing Locke.

*Stars and hearts in eyes.* SO ROMANTIC!

[Inkidu]

If we're talking the best thematic opening in the Final Fantasy series give it up for VIII. :)

Nothing comes close.

[Silverfyre]

I will give that VIII had a brilliant opener but I still think VI's opener is classic.

[Eislynn]

I will give that VIII had a brilliant opener but I still think VI's opener is classic.

Agreed on both counts... There's just something about that music and that Snowfield. It sends shivers down one's spine. Do I remember hearing about Nobuo saying in an interview that he considers the soundtrack to FFVI his favorite? I can't remember for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least - I mean, that OPERA is amazing!

Also, while we're geeking out about the Pre-7 era... I wanted to share a couple of snapshots of my costume rack!

[Silverfyre]

Wow, that's some fantastic costuming! Thank you for sharing!

[Shjade]

I think the scrolling snowfield from 6 is more recognizable than one would think. When I attended the Distant Worlds Concert and they closed out the concert with Terra's theme, they had the orchestral credits scrolling up on that snowfield... A great big "OOH!" rose out of the crowd - Many people do recognize it - but a subtler scene like that will have a subtler appreciation I think.

Being unfamiliar with this bit myself, felt compelled to look it up.

Terra's Theme - Distant Worlds Chicago

[Inkidu]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Agreed on both counts... There's just something about that music and that Snowfield. It sends shivers down one's spine. Do I remember hearing about Nobuo saying in an interview that he considers the soundtrack to FFVI his favorite? I can't remember for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least - I mean, that OPERA is amazing!

Also, while we're geeking out about the Pre-7 era... I wanted to share a couple of snapshots of my costume rack!

VI is probably Uematsu's most impressive overall score technically and in scope, though all his work is good. Even X has its moments.

However, I have most attachment to IV's soundtrack. Theme of Love is actually a school staple in Japan. :)

[Silverfyre]

Heh, the wife and I walked down the aisle to a instrumental version of IX's "Melodies of Life".

[Shjade]

Heh, the wife and I walked down the aisle to a instrumental version of IX's "Melodies of Life".

Nnnneeeeeeeerds!

[Silverfyre]

Proudly.

[SinXAzgard21]

I will give that VIII had a brilliant opener but I still think VI's opener is classic.

When on emulator I just fast forward through VI's opening.

[Will]

I think it's one of the high points of the whole series.  So dramatic and suspenseful!  It's just beautifully done.  Plus, it gets the Biggs & Wedge cameo out of the way, right off the top. :P

[Chris Brady]

The issue I had with III/VI is the middle can drag on forever.  I prefer II/IV for story pacing.

[Inkidu]

The issue I had with III/VI is the middle can drag on forever.  I prefer II/IV for story pacing.

I agree, I also think that VI has too many characters. It's absurd. I'm thirty hours into a game and I'm still collecting characters? There's a reason all characters are usually introduced in act 1. Any later and it's usually hard for people to care.

[Silverfyre]

Too many characters? Man, you kids and your "give me all my characters right now!" mentality! Back in my day, we had to wait until Act XVIII to get my first character! :p

[Eislynn]

I agree, I also think that VI has too many characters. It's absurd. I'm thirty hours into a game and I'm still collecting characters? There's a reason all characters are usually introduced in act 1. Any later and it's usually hard for people to care.

Somehow, I feel that even with the extended cast, even the peripheral characters in VI had a level of depth that is lacking in some of main cast of the later games. I mean if I of all people can remember all of their names, they must have been memorable. To have fleshed out an engaging back story for fourteen unique characters? I give them nothing but praise for that. It's a bold move when most RPGs prefer a blank character that serves only as a canvas onto which the player has to project. I may be alone in this, but I much prefer a fleshed out hero that I can identify with instead of a mannequin I'm supposed to paint my face on.

Also some friendly advice if you dislike large casts: Never. Play. Suikoden. LOL. :D

[Silverfyre]

Oh gods, you speak of the game which must never be spoken of!  101+ characters!

* Silverfyre 's brain explodes.

[Inkidu]

Somehow, I feel that even with the extended cast, even the peripheral characters in VI had a level of depth that is lacking in some of main cast of the later games. I mean if I of all people can remember all of their names, they must have been memorable. To have fleshed out an engaging back story for fourteen unique characters? I give them nothing but praise for that. It's a bold move when most RPGs prefer a blank character that serves only as a canvas onto which the player has to project. I may be alone in this, but I much prefer a fleshed out hero that I can identify with instead of a mannequin I'm supposed to paint my face on.

Also some friendly advice if you dislike large casts: Never. Play. Suikoden. LOL. :D

Two things I'm going to observe. You've played the game more than once, and you like it. Of course, you're going to remember all their names. I played it once. I hardly remember ten of them. They're also all ones introduced early in the game. :P However, I can name probably every character with a name in IV.

[Eislynn]

@Inkidu

That's a fair assessment - But it says something that I was willing to go back and play it a 2nd time.

@silverfyre
108 Stars of Destiny mo-fo! ;D If my memory serves me, weren't there additional recruit-able characters that weren't Stars?

[Inkidu]

@Inkidu

That's a fair assessment - But it says something that I was willing to go back and play it a 2nd time.

@silverfyre
108 Stars of Destiny mo-fo! ;D If my memory serves me, weren't there additional recruit-able characters that weren't Stars?

I'm also going to assume you played it before you were thirteen, too.

[Silverfyre]

@silverfyre
108 Stars of Destiny mo-fo! ;D If my memory serves me, weren't there additional recruit-able characters that weren't Stars?

I believe there were.  I only managed half of that before my damned game disc got too scuffed to play.  That's what I get for buying it second hand back in the day.

[Eislynn]

@Inkidu
Actually I first picked it up in college - even if I had played it before age 13, I don't think the things that speak to us and shape us should have an age limit.

[Inkidu]

@Inkidu
Actually I first picked it up in college - even if I had played it before age 13, I don't think the things that speak to us and shape us should have an age limit.

Nah, you can usually guess that if someone can remember all that it was part of their formative years. I get the appeal of VI, but it's not in my top five. I think it tends to sprawl too much and the plot becomes harder to follow, add in the almost random way some character cut into the story it gets a little too schizo. I have the same problem with VII. :\

[Silverfyre]

Chrono Trigger remains my favorite RPG title.

/hijack

[Eislynn]

Nah, you can usually guess that if someone can remember all that it was part of their formative years. I get the appeal of VI, but it's not in my top five. I think it tends to sprawl too much and the plot becomes harder to follow, add in the almost random way some character cut into the story it gets a little too schizo. I have the same problem with VII. :\

Well we all have our own reasons for liking the ones we do. Something in a character or a plot will just draw us in and we are forever smitten. That's one thing I think we all have in common about the Final Fantasy series. At least one of the games finally smote us. :)

@Silverfyre.
Still its from the glory days of Squaresoft. ;)

[Inkidu]

Chrono Trigger remains my favorite RPG title.

/hijack

Yes! I never even played it when it was on the SNES, I got the PS1 re-release. Now I have it for DS.

[Chris Brady]

Man, Squaresoft, when they could actually make good games within the confines of their hardware...

And I was 16 when I played FF3/6.  And I still remember most of the characters.

[Inkidu]

Man, Squaresoft, when they could actually make good games within the confines of their hardware...

And I was 16 when I played FF3/6.  And I still remember most of the characters.

It's not an exact science, damnit! XD I mean I played VIII after I was thirteen and I love that game. Sometimes it's not right, though  you could argue 16 is formative.

[Will]

It's not an exact science, damnit! XD I mean I played VIII after I was thirteen and I love that game. Sometimes it's not right, though  you could argue 16 is formative.

I actually think VIII had the most convoluted, hard to follow plot of the whole series. : /  I don't mind the length of a plot so much, though, because the longer the game is, the more I feel like I got my money's worth.  I'm a cheap bastard, what can I say?

[Chris Brady]

I actually think VIII had the most convoluted, hard to follow plot of the whole series. : /  I don't mind the length of a plot so much, though, because the longer the game is, the more I feel like I got my money's worth.  I'm a cheap bastard, what can I say?

No, you're not.  Time is relative, but yes, a long game means you're getting more out of it, those the cost to fun ratio increases.  Which is what pisses me off with these 20 hour games being considered 'too long'.  I'm sorry, but I'm going to be paying nearly 60 bucks for a game, I want at LEAST 12 hours, NO LESS.

That being said, if the game is awesome and clocks in at 10 hours?  Then yes, it's worth it.  If the game drags on for 60 hours, and is dull and dreary?  No, it's not worth the price.

[Inkidu]

I actually think VIII had the most convoluted, hard to follow plot of the whole series. : /  I don't mind the length of a plot so much, though, because the longer the game is, the more I feel like I got my money's worth.  I'm a cheap bastard, what can I say?

That's just because it's time travel and time travel never works out right under any scrutiny. :D

[Will]

No, you're not.  Time is relative, but yes, a long game means you're getting more out of it, those the cost to fun ratio increases.  Which is what pisses me off with these 20 hour games being considered 'too long'.  I'm sorry, but I'm going to be paying nearly 60 bucks for a game, I want at LEAST 12 hours, NO LESS.

That being said, if the game is awesome and clocks in at 10 hours?  Then yes, it's worth it.  If the game drags on for 60 hours, and is dull and dreary?  No, it's not worth the price.

Yes and yes!  On both counts.  A good game is a good game, regardless.  I can appreciate that.  But if it can be longer and still be good, I appreciate that even more, haha.

And to be fair, I still loved VIII.  It's one of my favorites.  The junctioning system is really similar to VI, so I loved it immediately, and the magic system was so unique.  The gameplay and the character customization were just fantastic.  But I reached a point in the game, where I was like, "Hold up.  The fuck is going on, exactly?"  There were a metric ton of random, poorly explained plot devices that really threw me for a loop.  I shrugged it off and enjoyed the game anyway, but yeah.  It took another playthrough to really get a grip on the plot.

[Eislynn]

And to be fair, I still loved VIII.  It's one of my favorites.  The junctioning system is really similar to VI, so I loved it immediately, and the magic system was so unique.  The gameplay and the character customization were just fantastic.  But I reached a point in the game, where I was like, "Hold up.  The fuck is going on, exactly?"  There were a metric ton of random, poorly explained plot devices that really threw me for a loop.  I shrugged it off and enjoyed the game anyway, but yeah.  It took another playthrough to really get a grip on the plot.

Want a mind-fucK?

Do NOT click here unless you really want a theory that destroys then reconstructs FFVIII in brain exploding ways -- Also, SPOILERS LOL! You've been warned.

This website details an entire alternate story theory in which Squall is dead before you ever insert Disk 2. It's not  cannon or anything, but it's a really entertaining read that COULD be true given their evidence. It's one of those things that got me interested enough that I am currently replaying the game.

They lay the whole thing out on http://squallsdead.com/

[Will]

Omg, I...

Omg

[Sasquatch421]

My favorites in Final Fantasy are Tactics and IX.... For whatever reason I just enjoyed all the characters of IX although tongue lady might have been a bit much. Then of course I absolutely loved Beatrice's theme... So simple but so lovely.

IX might also be one of the few where I never got into the cutesy type character.... Just off hand VII you had Yuffie, VIII the cutesy char was Selphie, X it was Rikku, XII it was Vaan's friend and XIII it would be Vanille. For IX I don't even remember who they used, but Freya was my favorite of that one.

VIII wasn't bad to me, I just got tired of drawing spells....

Though my favorite RPG's are still Lunar SSS and Lunar 2 Eternal Blue....

[Eislynn]

Omg, I...

Omg

I know dude... I know. You had about the same reaction as me.

[Inkidu]

I thought about that theory before I got on the internet, they did more research, but ultimately I look at it this way.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

You can win or lose the fight. If you win you get 20AP, but if you lose the same thing happens no AP. So if you win, Squall is healed by magic (literally) so Ultimicia possessed can interrogate him about SeeD, and the plot proceeds as normal. If you lose, Squall's Dead Theory commences

[Silverfyre]

What a fascinating theory.  Love it.

[SinXAzgard21]

I thought about that theory before I got on the internet, they did more research, but ultimately I look at it this way.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

You can win or lose the fight. If you win you get 20AP, but if you lose the same thing happens no AP. So if you win, Squall is healed by magic (literally) so Ultimicia possessed can interrogate him about SeeD, and the plot proceeds as normal. If you lose, Squall's Dead Theory commences

If you haven't played VII or VI don't bother reading this.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

This kinda all goes back to it being a Japanese RPG.  Cloud gets fully ran through by Sephiroth and lives, this is during his Mako poisoning where he realizes he was an MP not a SOLDIER.  Kefka destroys the world and some how the heroes survive in VI.  The theory is cool and thought out but I can't buy it.

[Will]

If you haven't played VII or VI don't bother reading this.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

This kinda all goes back to it being a Japanese RPG.  Cloud gets fully ran through by Sephiroth and lives, this is during his Mako poisoning where he realizes he was an MP not a SOLDIER.  Kefka destroys the world and some how the heroes survive in VI.  The theory is cool and thought out but I can't buy it.

I think the reason the theory gets more traction in VIII is because of how difficult to follow the plot is, as opposed to VII or VI. 

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

The story does seem to get more and more disjointed and ridiculous, like a dream spiraling out of control.  The ending fmv really clinches it for me.  I'll never look at that game the same way again!

[Chris Brady]

It was hard to follow?  Huhn.

[Inkidu]

I think the reason the theory gets more traction in VIII is because of how difficult to follow the plot is, as opposed to VII or VI. 

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

The story does seem to get more and more disjointed and ridiculous, like a dream spiraling out of control.  The ending fmv really clinches it for me.  I'll never look at that game the same way again!

I didn't think it was hard to follow. I got it the first time I played through.

Traditional Plot Synopsis. Surprisingly Short

Squall, mercenary, finds out eventually that his job is to defeat sorceress's. Because in Esthar Adel was persecuted for being a sorceress. She goes forward in time to  escape persecution. Squall and Co. fight her in the future. Then, because of the time compression event (due to all the time travel the past (Adel's time) the present (Squall's time) and the future (Adel wins) the SeeD are able to defeat her, removing her from the stable time loop (trope name, look it up) opposed to insuring her own future through possession and all that; and because Squall is able to go into the past due to time compression he's able to plant the idea of SeeD insuring victory.

That's really it. It makes as much sense as Terminator sure, but that's time-travel plots. The amnesia, the GFs, the first few missions. They're actually not A-roll plot

It's not hard, in a lot of ways I think it's a throwback to Final Fantasy's plot. :)

[Silverfyre]

The story grew disjointed and quite convoluted near the end of the game.  I am with Will on that one.

[Shjade]

The story grew disjointed and quite convoluted near the end of the game.  I am with Will on that one.

Something else games in the Final Fantasy series tend to have in common.

[Silverfyre]

Especially the later ones, i.e: Post VII.  Even one of my favorites, IX, got a little loopy near the end.

[Will]

It was really the inordinate number of plot devices and twists thrown in with little to no foreshadowing or explanation.  Like I said, I enjoyed myself in spite of that, but eventually it was just too much.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Time compression was never really explained very much.  The theme of impending doom by magic is not new, I know, but time compression was not nearly as straightforward as Meteor, for example.  The fact that the PCs all grew up together was pretty random; I dunno what that really added to the plot.  The GF-induced amnesia just seemed like an idea the writers threw together to support the orphanage twist, which I'm sure they thought was awesome.  It all has a bit of a Shyamalan feel to me, honestly.

[AndyZ]

My thoughts

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

I think that Time Compression was basically supposed to be the idea that you mash the past, present and future all into a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff.  Anyone with godlike power would be able to survive this and could recarve the compressed world into their own little paradise, but ordinary humans wouldn't be able to survive the process to any significant degree.

I can't remember why, but I think she regretted something from the past, or wanted to try to go back to when things were happy or something.  It's a pretty archetypal regret, as is trying to use supernatural means to fix it.

I could well be wrong, though.  It's been like a decade at least since I played it.

[Haruki]

I should probably start with citing my favorite in the series.  For me, it would be VI.  A balanced blend of the earlier titles' fantasy/medieval leanings, with a nod towards what the writers would do full-blast with VII and VIII, adding the more steampunk and technological elements, but not to the point of overblown cliches and presentation the series (and JRPGs in general are now deservedly known for) would become known for with VII and onwards.

For me, it has the most memorable moments in its story, the largest cast in the entire series (no less than 12 playable characters).  It just came out at the right moment and on the right platform.  It's not without flaws of course....the Esper/Magicite system is laughably easy to exploit, the second half of the game feels unfinished (save for the minimalist remainder of the main plot.....it has a ton of side-quests and optional battles with eight INSANELY DIFFICULT dragons.....they were hard for me anyways), and there are some loose ends in the story that never get resolved by the (easily longest on the SNES) huge 30+ minute ending cutscenes and staff roll.

In my feeble attempt to break the nostalgia glasses I often wear when these sort of topics come up, it's hard not for me to notice that the series has lost a bit of that charm it had.

In fairness, I do realize that if we had today's technology back in the early/mid 1990s (the era when FF IV, V and VI came out in the U.S.), the games would have probably been in the same presentation style as more recent offerings like X, XII and XIII.  You all know what I mean....fully voiced cut-scenes, no 'world map' to speak of, a more literal translation with only minor filling-in to make the words flow more smoothly in a Westernized fashion.

Something about the older iterations of the franchise, however, have something the newer games (from VII onwards....my opinion, but especially starting with X) are lacking, when looking at the overall story and the characters that help shape the plot.  When my mind is allowed more free-will to imagine how the characters will look and sound, and (while in general, the overall story's start and end point can be cliche often times), not knowing which way the plot will twist or turn next, I find myself ore engrossed with a game in general.

Those aspects are what truly drew me into the older titles, especially VI.  I was already 17 going on 18 at the time I played and beat that one, so I was possibly outside the target demo.  I was still able to appreciate it, and probably still would today.

I think the other aspect is that, while FF has proven more popular Stateside than in its native Japan (even though it also does gangbusters over there.....nowhere close to what Dragon Quest does though), the other draw is that the story and characters were purely the creation of minds with East Asian ideals and the like.  No one in the Western form of storytelling (unless I was missing some very niche storywriters at the time) was doing things of this sort.  It had that air of exploring new un-explored territory.

The trouble I'm reading and seeing with the newer stuff is.....and I'm probably repeating others' sentiments.  They're purposely fluffing up the story in ways that make it so convoluted and hard to follow.  It's like taking a bunc of ideas, throwing them into a hat, shaking it up, then letting them fall onto a table in a random order that they refuse to change up, excise un-needed plot devices, and change up character models/sheets to bring some different things into the series.  Older iterations did this well enough.....the first few FFs had the right mix of medieval fantasy, adding more touches of 'steampunk' with the middle of the series (VI, VII especially.....WHILE still keeping a focus on fantasy elements like use of magic spells and giving the characters still-relateable looks).

I could tell they were starting to run out of ideas with VII and onwards though.  Starting to add, for one, more 'anime inspired' elements, tropes and character cliches.  I understand by then, my generation was out, the new younger generation was in, but I knew they weren't getting the same experience I did.  Or maybe they were and still are....just with different story elements and characters.  I don't know.  :)

The RPG genre (especially JRPGs), is really a barren wasteland though for anyone past their teenage years.  Which is a shame.....there's lots of untapped potential.  That's another topic for another day though.  I personally feel Final Fantasy has run its course.  They had some ideas going with XII, but seemed to fall back (or even regress further) with XIII.  Didn't help that XIV was, to be blunt, an utter failure.

Japan's in the same economic mess (and has been for far longer than the U.S.) we are.  They're just playing it safe, with few, if any, new ideas coming out there, with FF or with anything.

A shame really, as Final Fantasy really had something going for it during the 16 and 32-bit eras.

[DarkSideofThinking]

Final Fantasy <3 well I guess every good forum should have such a topic! ;)

I love this series well...from 8 onwards because I never played the titles before. Also I skipped 10-2, 11 and 12 and I am currently playing 13-2 after borrowing it from a friend. I have to admit that 13-2 is so much better than 13 but I agree that the older games were better. For me 8 is the best it was just an epic story with wonderful music. 9 was really good too and I play it even now from time to time :) 10-2 I skipped because....well the clothes and weapons of Yuna already stopped me from playing it to tell you the truth. Yet I still hope the next titles will get the "FF-feeling" again...I kinda missed that in 13 and 13-2 only could a bit of it back^^

[Haruki]

Final Fantasy <3 well I guess every good forum should have such a topic! ;)

I love this series well...from 8 onwards because I never played the titles before. Also I skipped 10-2, 11 and 12 and I am currently playing 13-2 after borrowing it from a friend. I have to admit that 13-2 is so much better than 13 but I agree that the older games were better. For me 8 is the best it was just an epic story with wonderful music. 9 was really good too and I play it even now from time to time :) 10-2 I skipped because....well the clothes and weapons of Yuna already stopped me from playing it to tell you the truth. Yet I still hope the next titles will get the "FF-feeling" again...I kinda missed that in 13 and 13-2 only could a bit of it back^^

Yeah, what's any discussion board without a Final Fantasy topic?  Most I've come across have one thread dedicated to it.  XP

9 was really where Square gave a nod to the past, but also bid farewell to it.  You got a little taste of the older style of FF (from 6 on backwards to the first) in the flow of battles and story presentation, but giving it all a modern (at the time) polish and production.  As such, playing the older titles may not be necessary, but should still be looked into, if for no other reason to see how FF began and how it evolved in various ways.

[Jag]

*has not read any of the other posts other than the first one*

I love VIII and IX. I started to replay VIII for the first time in about five years a week ago. The copy is mine, but the hubby was playing it. He was having trouble gaining Diablos as a GF. I got tired of his swearing and cussing after his fifth or sixth time failing. So I grabbed the controller from him and got Diablos in one try. I also went on to beat the entire first disk for him. I beat the Seifer battle in one hit. I consider my first disk a complete failure if I cannot beat Seifer in one hit. I will always restart my character if I cannot do that. Not sure why, just a little obsessed with it. The hubby was impressed and upset that I am better at a game than he is. :P

[Mathim]

How did I not notice this place sooner?

I've never been fond of the games where only one character has access to a given skill; it tends to emphasize their use even if you don't happen to care for that character's personality which is a drag, and also causes certain characters with abilities that are inferior or next-to-useless to never be used even if they have a more likable personality. That's the main reason VII and VIII are my favorites; the only things different from character to character are their limit breaks, and luckily for me the preferred limit breaks (the ones that hit multiple times, the only type that makes a damn bit of sense) belonged to my favorite characters in each game, being Cloud, Barret and Cid in VII and Squall, Zell and Irvine in VIII. Games like VI and IX annoyed me, VI being the worst because it had something like twice as many characters as in IX and twice as much of the ratio of characters with decent skills vs. characters with bogus skills. I didn't actually care much for the story of VI either (sorry to those two did like it but I gotta say it) since I had played VII first and already got my fill of the world-dominating megalomaniac; Sephiroth beats Kefka hands-down because of Sephiroth's approach, using manipulation directly on the main character instead of just doing his own thing to take over the world. Nothing makes a vendetta more personal than that. Kefka just kind of seemed like small potatoes until a certain point and that diminished his overall villainness. And once you hit the halfway point, your characters get split up and you no longer have access to even half of them until you meet tons of conditions and make tons of progress, which is the worst idea ever. IX also had that happen quite a bit, seriously annoying having half your party be 20 levels higher than the rest because of how disjointed the game is and the way abilities are learned. Okay, end of rant.

I stopped playing FF's after X and X-2 (both of which I enjoyed for a variety of reasons) and War of the Lions (it deserved a lot more than the few scant improvements they put in) so I can't speak for 11-13 but the fact that they supposedly went through seriously changes in the entire dynamic put me off of wanting to try them. 12 sounded like it was borrowing Kingdom Hearts' battle system which was blasphemy to me, but I never looked into it, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm actually working on a planner for developing a real sequel to Tactics, to make it as realistic as possible, incorporating elements from other games like reactions to weather and such and with lots of cool new jobs. The handheld Advance sequels were unworthy. Fun, to a degree, but by no means anywhere near the standard set by their predecessor.

Lastly, I'd like to give a shout-out to Final Fantasy 5. Nobody's really said a word about it so far but it was the first non-3D FF I played and I loved it. It was like Tactics, but with the ATB combat system which rocked as a combination. I enjoyed it much more than VI which I played after, if only because it was more manageable as far as having only 4 party members and nobody got lost for a ridiculous amount of time. I don't think the quality of the plots differed all that much to be honest so I'm not sure why VI got more positive attention aside from its looks and possibly because it had more areas to explore.

[CmdrRenegade]

My first Final Fantasy was II/IV but III/VI was what pulled me in. I think asking which FF was good or bad is like asking who's the best Doctor in Doctor Who or the best Bond. The one that seems to be the most divisive though from my observation is IX followed closely by VIII. Very love or hate with those two. Except for Tactics: War of the Lions and XII, we haven't had many FFs that tried to grow with the audience. They've gone on record saying they're still trying to appeal to teens despite the fact the earliest players are now well into their 30s and 40s with families. It bums me out considering my history with FF but life marches on.

I just wish more of the mature fare like Parasite Eve would get more attention.

[SinXAzgard21]

12 sounded like it was borrowing Kingdom Hearts' battle system which was blasphemy to me, but I never looked into it, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The battle system was closer to XII's with the only difference of a pause menu.  You could use every character or program them to do certain things in battle such as attack enemies with lower than a certain health or heal when a ally is below a certain percentage of health.  The in combat menu screen has been used way before Kingdom Hearts, all it added was that it wasn't turn based.  FFXI did the same thing and was in development longer.

[TentacleFan]

*stumbles into Final Fantasy thread and looks around*

I didn't realize this was here.  :D

For me Final Fantasy goes way way back. To the beginning in fact. I received the red-covered strategy guide free for subscribing to Nintendo Power  before I even knew it existed. It triggered something in my young fantasy-craving brain and lots of make believe games followed even though I didn't even have the game itself for some time. Then my father took me and my brother to a Nintendo Show that was in town at some convention center. They had Final Fantasy playing on one of the units. It was set to restart every so many minutes but since you could save your progress I kept playing.  >:)

I spent almost the entire time at the show hogging that console and made it a point to request that as the next game purchased in the household. From there I was ignorant of the Japanese only releases but did buy a super nintendo to purchase the American releases numbered 2 & 3. Then a playstation, playstation 2, playstation 3, and so on.

I've played 1, 4 (2 originally in america), 6 (3 in america), 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 11 (for a little while, got tired of it since I don't really like mmos but I was a beta tester), and 12. I've played Final Fantasy Tactics... *whispers* and Mystic Quest  :-[

My favorite is a tie between 4 and 6.

[Mobats]

I have played everything but the online one and have to say 8 was my favorite but that is mainly because it was the first one I played.  I am sorry I am not going to go into much details I just remember how much I loved the music and the game play.

[Will]

The music really was great.  Except for that "Eyes on Me" thing.

Final Fantasy VIII - Blue Fields (Piano)

[Mobats]

Yeah that was a little creepy