WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[arkhos]

I've gotten a few games of AoS in so far, and our results have been.... interesting.

The mechanics in general make for a fast game. We all had fun, as well. This is -not- Warhammer '9th edition'. In fact, it's best to simply think of it as a completely new game.

But the game has a couple HUGE flaws.

First - no army building rules. You can take whatever you want - even mix figures from different factions. You can also take as -many- as one thing as you want (on most warscrolls. Some do limit you to a single model). Want 100 Chaos Warriors? Go for it!

Second - Summoning is outrageous, and tons of armies have the ability to do it. The generic Chaos Lord, for example... every turn he can roll a d6 - on a 4+, he can call in reinforcements - one of various units with a certain tag. Yep, Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors are on that list. AND,that unit can be as big as you want. The one game I saw him in, the guy failed the roll on turns 1-3, but made it roll on turn 4-5. POOF, virtually another entire army appears. Heck, I saw where one of the Lords of Change can summon... another Lord of Change! Ugh.

That being said, GW reps have mentioned that in the coming months, there will be 'force construction guidelines' coming out. Right now it's a virtual free-for-all as they wanted people to 'get used to' the new rules, as it's a pretty monumental change from their usual game standards.

The group I played with... they're non-munchkins, so we all agreed on certain number of models max, and a certain number of wounds max, and eliminating summoning altogether. Doing that... we actually had a fabulous time.

The biggest boon is - the rules and the army lists are free. You can use your current figs just fine. So really, you are only investing an hour or two to try it. But right now, trying it will likely give you a negative feeling, I am afraid.

My group still holds out hope that GW will get stuff rolling to the point where this game can be salvaged before it crashes and burns fresh from the womb!

[Samael]

I'll just leave this here



*..carefully moves back out of the thread, then runs.*

[arkhos]

I'll just leave this here

*..carefully moves back out of the thread, then runs.*

Yeah. That's like 15 special rules for very specific models... across a range of hundreds. They're goofy rules made as a 'send off' for the old edition/older models. Supposedly these types of rules will not be created for their -new- figs and factions, so we'll see. :)

Some of those aren't any big deal (the Skaven one can't even be accomplished - it's there for goofy fluff text). The guys I play with would all just accept it and let you have the benefit without looking (or sounding) silly.

[Oniya]

I can think of at least five people in my circle that would not only require the full 'fluff performance', but would engage in it with great enthusiasm.  Meanwhile, someone would probably be uploading it all to YouTube.

[arkhos]

I can think of at least five people in my circle that would not only require the full 'fluff performance', but would engage in it with great enthusiasm.  Meanwhile, someone would probably be uploading it all to YouTube.

And therein lies the TRUE danger of such rules! ;)

[HairyHeretic]

I read a post this morning on my FB feed from one of the wargaming sites that makes it sound like the AoS rules (being aimed, apparently, at the early teen market) are airbrushing Slaanesh out of the game, going with the 'captured and imprisoned' angle. I can't say I care for that, if it's true. I'm not a major Slaaneshi fan, but Slaanesh is an integral part of Chaos, just as much as Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle.

[Beorning]

Nooooooooooo! Are they insane? Slaanesh is the only one of the Chaos gods that is actually scary...

Maybe the possible sexual implications of Slaanesh are making the GW uneasy?

[HairyHeretic]

If they're aiming AoS at a young teen audience, Slaanesh isn't going to play well with that demographics parents and their credit cards :P

[TheGlyphstone]

The blood-drenched slaughtermurder of Khorne, festering oozing disease of Nurgle, and rampant twisted insanity of Tzeentch are all good though. But SAVE THE CHILDREN from NAKED SKIN.

Why can't they reinvent Slaanesh as the God of Heavy Metal again? That would play to this generation of parents better.

[Oniya]

The blood-drenched slaughtermurder of Khorne, festering oozing disease of Nurgle, and rampant twisted insanity of Tzeentch are all good though. But SAVE THE CHILDREN from NAKED SKIN.

Why can't they reinvent Slaanesh as the God of Heavy Metal again? That would play to this generation of parents better.

So glad I haven't started drinking my coffee yet.  Would be a shame to give my monitor a bath.  ;D

[Beorning]

Well, admittedly, I wouldn't want my children to play with toys openly associated with sex (especially perverted sex), either...

[HairyHeretic]

Slaanesh isn't just about sex though. Slaanesh is about excess .. everything louder, faster, more intense. Sex just happens to be the easiest way to portray that.

[Beorning]

True, but sex does belong to his portfolio. And the daemonettes kind of drip with sex...

I don't know - I think that Slaanesh is one of the best things in Warhammer, so I don't want to see him gone. Still, I do agree he isn't for kids...

[HairyHeretic]

To quote George R.R. Martin

“I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.”

[Oniya]

Slaanesh isn't just about sex though. Slaanesh is about excess .. everything louder, faster, more intense. Sex just happens to be the easiest way to portray that.

Harder, better, faster... Wait.  Slaanesh is Daft Punk?!

[HairyHeretic]

Harder, better, faster... Wait.  Slaanesh is Daft Punk?!

I had considered making that one myself :)

[Beorning]

To quote George R.R. Martin

“I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.”

True, but I really don't think that witnessing violence in media has such a detrimental effect on kids like witnessing sex. There's a reason we shield children from erotica / porn, right?

[Oniya]

I'd say that's a bit beyond the scope of this thread.

[Beorning]

Yes, of course. Sorry!

[TheGlyphstone]

There is in fact a whole separate thread about this sort of thing in PROC right now, I believe.

[arkhos]

As a long-time Eldar player, I have long-awaited the fall of Slaanesh and would cheer loudly if this was transferred over into 40K 8th (whenever that happens).

As a fan of the game/genre/fluff... it's kinda sad, that GW is going to buckle to "PCness" and, after over three decades, decide to 'tone down' the deity that is probably the least popular anyway of the Chaos gods.

And yes, I totally agree with the hypocritical 'bloodandskulls for the blood god' is totally cool, but boobs aren't mindset. But GW wants to be mainstream, because that means more $ in their eyes, I guess.

[Celestial_Majestic]

I know the money is in teenagers and their parent's buying figures for them but if they tone down Slaanesh they have completely lost my business. I play Emperor's Children and am possibly the biggest Fulgrim fangirl you could meet so this is a sad development if true.

I have a few Thousand Sons because I like their specific fluff but Tzeentch just doesn't interest me as much as Slaanesh. I flat out despise that meathead Khorne and Nurgle does nothing for me. Why does everything have to pander to kids these days :/

[Thorne]

I'unno about that. That may be the actual intent, but I don't see all /that/ many teens playing Warhammer at my FLGS - most of the Warhammer players I see (and occasionally have to yell over) are adults.

I'm right there with you with wanting games that don't pander to kids. I freely admit it's one of the reasons I still play here - I have to self-censor a lot less. ^^;

[HairyHeretic]

So, it seems to be that Slaanesh has been captured, and replaced by The Horned Rat.

Interest in AoS decreasing ...

[Beorning]

The Horned Rat is some sort of Skaven deity, right?