Arrogance or Confidence? Is there a difference?

[Alive Until Dead]

I run into this more than I care to admit... One of my clients even commented I can come off as arrogant sometimes. So... I'm curious what the difference is to different people, between being confident (A subject matter expert for example) and arrogant?

Is it in the words used?
What body language cues make you think someone's arrogant?
Is there a borderline or is it usually blatant?

[AndyZ]

It's an exceptionally blurry line that greatly depends upon the individual.  What's the difference between slutty and sexually active?  What's the difference between cowardly and willing to take the high road?  What's the difference between miserly and knowing the value of a dollar?  None of these things have a simple, discrete line.

Now, it's human nature when we discover a flaw in ourselves, if we have too much excess of something, that we dive overboard and jump to the other extreme.  I would expect that it's probably something that you're doing which makes you come across as arrogant, bits of body language and the like, that make you abrasive.  However, that's exceptionally difficult to determine without getting to know you.  So, I'm forced to guess.

Are you familiar with Socrates?  He's the guy credited with the idea that all that we know is that we know nothing, and used a form of critical questioning in order to tear apart arguments.  Perhaps your issue is that you feel absolutely certain about things, and people are unable to dissuade you from your ideas no matter how much they try?

[OldSchoolGamer]

Confidence is projected inwards.  Arrogance is projected outwards.  Confidence says, "I am good."  Arrogance says, "I'm better than you."

[Beguile's Mistress]

There is more to the attitude than words or body language as I see it.  A person appears confident to me when the can take up a challenge and work toward the goal while realizing the may need to ask for help in some way and that asking for help does not diminish them.

Arrogant people present a totally different aspect.  They act as though they are the one with all the answers and abilities.  They don't ask for help and seldom acknowledge their mistakes.  They believe the are the only one capable of doing a task and doing it correctly and that any other method or person will not measure up.  Some are blatant in their behavior and some are subtle and understated.  Some people recognize their own arrogance and take steps to keep it under control.  The arrogant person usually thinks it all about them.

Ask yourself if you have any of the traits of others who appear arrogant to you or that people describe for you here.  Try to figure out why you behave that way then and dial it back a few notches.  Arrogance can be a helpful tool when it's kept under control and not used to elevate yourself or demean others.  It is also going to look different

[Callie Del Noire]

There is more to the attitude than words or body language as I see it.  A person appears confident to me when the can take up a challenge and work toward the goal while realizing the may need to ask for help in some way and that asking for help does not diminish them.

Arrogant people present a totally different aspect.  They act as though they are the one with all the answers and abilities.  They don't ask for help and seldom acknowledge their mistakes.  They believe the are the only one capable of doing a task and doing it correctly and that any other method or person will not measure up.  Some are blatant in their behavior and some are subtle and understated.  Some people recognize their own arrogance and take steps to keep it under control.  The arrogant person usually thinks it all about them.

Ask yourself if you have any of the traits of others who appear arrogant to you or that people describe for you here.  Try to figure out why you behave that way then and dial it back a few notches.  Arrogance can be a helpful tool when it's kept under control and not used to elevate yourself or demean others.  It is also going to look different

I agree a lot. There are some overlap between confident and arrogant in body language. Actions, on the other hand, DEFINITELY show the difference.

For example:

One of the guys I know who was tremendously arrogant in the first squadron I was in would volunteer for anything that was easy (if time consuming) such as running a compensation run which, aside from time, was dead easy. But it looked good, but he wouldn't work on long term 'problem' issues like a mysterious gripe that kept one antenna from working.

My mentor, who was confident and not arrogant, volunteered to work the 'mystery' gripe and would rotate the 'nuggets' to go out with him. He logged HUNDREDS of man hours but wouldn't let us work too long out on the field with him, BUT would look for areas that we hadn't done before. Like using a particular tool we'd never seen before, like a TDR (Time Domain Reflectometer) or FDR (Frequency Domain Reflectometer), or pulling out a rack, and such.

Only when we had FINALLY found the problem (The plane had taken a hit the year before and the antenna line had pulled free of the mount at the very end of a long hardline.. none of us enjoyed going into that space.. a flight deck chief was killed when the turnbuckle hit the plane.) the arrogant prick tried to 'help out' since it was clear credit would be made. (Coming in early to get a jump on the final fix... till it became clear it would require a week or more to replace.. AFTER we got a custom line cut, manufactured and sent out. Then he went back to looking for 'high vis' jobs)

Actions are harder to hide than body language in telling the diffence between the two.

[Alive Until Dead]

Confidence is projected inwards.  Arrogance is projected outwards.  Confidence says, "I am good."  Arrogance says, "I'm better than you."

Well said!

I would expect that it's probably something that you're doing which makes you come across as arrogant, bits of body language and the like, that make you abrasive.  However, that's exceptionally difficult to determine without getting to know you.  So, I'm forced to guess.

Are you familiar with Socrates?  He's the guy credited with the idea that all that we know is that we know nothing, and used a form of critical questioning in order to tear apart arguments.  Perhaps your issue is that you feel absolutely certain about things, and people are unable to dissuade you from your ideas no matter how much they try?

Thanks for the feedback! I wasn't asking for me specifically, I know when I come off as arrogant and when I don't. I'm pretty confident I have and do come off both arrogant and narcissistic on here in certain posts if not most of them. In text and even in person it's largely because I speak with an exactness, this is what it is, like there isn't another answer. Or this is how it's often read. I like to see who takes things at face value... Remmy's such a narcissist, you see that? She acts like her answer is the right answer versus those people who think on different levels... Yep, that is true.. but when you consider this perspective.... which would then shift the topic a little and open a line for the evolution of the conversation.

Or, I could just not write that way and make everyone feel open and inclined to offer their perspective, but I admittedly like filtering the masses, it's an efficiency and effectiveness thing. While yes, it's being decided whether or not I am 'worthy' to stay and play here... I am also considering if it would be advantageous of me to stay and play. Are there like minded individuals or am I going to be too widely perceived as a(n) -insert unfavorable word(s) here-, to the point where the prospects of RP are slim and thus, not worth the effort.

erg, sorry... word vomit. I really should just shut my mouth/stop typing.

In any case, I was curious about how you look at other people. What makes YOU decide that person is arrogant versus that person is confident and you kind of gave me an idea of that anyway. :-p

P.S. I don't agree with know nothing.... I believe we only know what the truths as we perceive them. And possibly even the facts of our reality.

[Beguile's Mistress]

There is more to the attitude than words or body language as I see it.  A person appears confident to me when the can take up a challenge and work toward the goal while realizing the may need to ask for help in some way and that asking for help does not diminish them.

Arrogant people present a totally different aspect.  They act as though they are the one with all the answers and abilities.  They don't ask for help and seldom acknowledge their mistakes.  They believe the are the only one capable of doing a task and doing it correctly and that any other method or person will not measure up.  Some are blatant in their behavior and some are subtle and understated.  Some people recognize their own arrogance and take steps to keep it under control.  The arrogant person usually thinks it all about them.

Ask yourself if you have any of the traits of others who appear arrogant to you or that people describe for you here.  Try to figure out why you behave that way then and dial it back a few notches.  Arrogance can be a helpful tool when it's kept under control and not used to elevate yourself or demean others.  It is also going to look different

That was truncated, wasn't it?

I was trying to say it's also going to look different from person to person.

I think I got interrupted by work. ;D

[AndyZ]

The bit about Socrates was meant to be a gentle nudge to see about if a person is arrogant enough to believe that they're always right.  Then I forgot to explain that, I think.  Ah well.

I'm going to say that confidence allows for the confidence of others, but arrogance works a lot harder to degrade others in order to make itself seem even better.  However, that's rather off the top of my head and is probably pretty flawed.

[Alive Until Dead]

I think that's a good way to put it. Confidence can be contagious, arrogance can be degrading to others.

I'm glad you guys replied and offered your opinions. Even if there was a bit of distraction here and there! lol. And nudging is often important when dealing with people you don't know, so that tells me you're aware of those things which is cool. I like reading/seeing that.

~Remmy~

[Callie Del Noire]

The bit about Socrates was meant to be a gentle nudge to see about if a person is arrogant enough to believe that they're always right.  Then I forgot to explain that, I think.  Ah well.

I'm going to say that confidence allows for the confidence of others, but arrogance works a lot harder to degrade others in order to make itself seem even better.  However, that's rather off the top of my head and is probably pretty flawed.

Actually I think you got something there AndyZ.. my mentor was all about building confidence in others. He wasn't afraid of confident workers competing with him, where as Ray..the tool I mentioned earlier.. 'hoarded' every nugget of knowledge he had to ensure he was the 'go to guy' on this or that system. He wasn't about building up folks.

[Oniya]

'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it' - Aristotle

The arrogant person will combat any attempt from someone else to contradict them. 

The confident person does not feel 'lowered' when they entertain another point of view, and may possibly even come to a conclusion that their original point of view was mistaken without any loss of that self-confidence.

[Shjade]

'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it' - Aristotle

The arrogant person will combat any attempt from someone else to contradict them. 

The confident person does not feel 'lowered' when they entertain another point of view, and may possibly even come to a conclusion that their original point of view was mistaken without any loss of that self-confidence.

BeMi and Oni beat me to it. :| Was going to describe it this way: Confidence says, "I'm right." Arrogance says, "Everyone else is wrong."

Unfortunately, confidence can be seen as arrogance anyway, particularly if the party on the receiving end is feeling defensive. I've had this come up more times than I can recall where I'll be debating an issue with someone and they bring up some point that I hadn't thought of or addressed yet, so I start really digging into that idea and they take the interrogatory fascination as intending to make them feel stupid or just point out flaws or etc. when I just want to take the idea apart to see how it works, so to speak. Intellectual version of reverse-engineering an engine. It's not always received well.

That in mind, in some ways, the difference between confidence and arrogance is one of perception.

[Alive Until Dead]

Unfortunately, confidence can be seen as arrogance anyway, particularly if the party on the receiving end is feeling defensive. I've had this come up more times than I can recall where I'll be debating an issue with someone and they bring up some point that I hadn't thought of or addressed yet, so I start really digging into that idea and they take the interrogatory fascination as intending to make them feel stupid or just point out flaws or etc. when I just want to take the idea apart to see how it works, so to speak. Intellectual version of reverse-engineering an engine. It's not always received well.

That in mind, in some ways, the difference between confidence and arrogance is one of perception.

- just nods repeatedly -

[AndyZ]

That's kinda what Socrates did.

[Oniya]

That's kinda what Socrates did.

*nods*  And some men of Socrates' time thought him incredibly arrogant.  There were a couple of Plato's Dialogues where Socrates' 'lines' could easily be read with a smug tone.  That's where text-based communication falls flat.

[AndyZ]

Putting in a spoiler tag just in case someone is reading his stuff and wants the surprise

Yeah, though if memory serves, he wanted to die at the end.  There were things that he could have done to not be killed.

Of course, Socrates is a special case in that regard.  I personally spend a LOT of time picking at things, not because I want to understand and see how things fit in the big picture.  Hopefully I don't upset people too much when I do...

[Shjade]

I wasn't just referring to text-based debates, Oni. I've had people blow up in my face about it to the tune of STOP FUCKING ASKING ME SHIT OKAY I GIVE UP and I'm like Dude we weren't competing and then they try to hit me with their car and I'm like well that's not very nice :|

[Oniya]

I wasn't just referring to text-based debates, Oni. I've had people blow up in my face about it to the tune of STOP FUCKING ASKING ME SHIT OKAY I GIVE UP and I'm like Dude we weren't competing and then they try to hit me with their car and I'm like well that's not very nice :|

See, I don't even get that mindset.  In person, I can usually tell if someone's genuinely interested, and when they're just trying to get me to concede.  I'll talk all day to the former, or at least until I run out of things to say.

[Shjade]

Some folks just don't like being asked to think.

[Oniya]

True enough.  I acknowledge that they exist, but they make me want to put my head through a wall sometimes.  If I ever run into one of those conspiracy theorists in person, they will certainly think me arrogant.  I'll have to see if strapping them to a chair 'Clockwork Orange-style' and barraging them with meteorological data changes that opinion.  ;)

[gaggedLouise]

BeMi and Oni beat me to it. :| Was going to describe it this way: Confidence says, "I'm right." Arrogance says, "Everyone else is wrong."

Unfortunately, confidence can be seen as arrogance anyway, particularly if the party on the receiving end is feeling defensive. I've had this come up more times than I can recall where I'll be debating an issue with someone and they bring up some point that I hadn't thought of or addressed yet, so I start really digging into that idea and they take the interrogatory fascination as intending to make them feel stupid or just point out flaws or etc. when I just want to take the idea apart to see how it works, so to speak. Intellectual version of reverse-engineering an engine. It's not always received well.

That in mind, in some ways, the difference between confidence and arrogance is one of perception.

Yeah, that's something I've seen happening to me as well. People who are defensive, trying to claim a space in a debate and keep it, rather than address questions, or who really have decided that their punchline arguments must not be questioned at all - that kind of people will often write off anything questioning the reasoning they present, will cast any counter-arguments as authoritarian, arrogant and - often - a brand of thinking that's gone past its sell-by date. And that kind of passive-aggressiveness heats the atmosphere around the discussion, without making for any kind of clarity in what's being discussed.


It tends to happen a lot in newspaper debate too - editorialists, pundits, political bloggers and so on. With them it is now part of the unofficial job description to be arrogant, use lots of obvious non sequitur props and paint everything in big sharp, rapid brushes (I don't think this used to be near as present as it is these days on opinion pages) but very often they can't accept that people might formulate reasonable criticism against something - a book, a speech, the staff writer's own column last week - simply because it doesn't hold water as analysis,. It's so much easier to believe that "they hate this piece because they are prejudiced beforehand, and hate the person who wrote it, they hate us - so they had to invent something they claim is valid criticism". That way of being in denial of any kind of valid real critiicism is pretty much a professional disease with many "op-ed machine writers".

[itsbeenfun2000]

I see the two as a teacher. A confident student will do something, do it well, and not worry about getting accolades for it. An Arrogant student is someone that wants to flaunt his  or her knowledge to show that he or she knows more then someone else.