The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

[SapphireStar]

Depends who they get to direct. I nominate Kevin Smith! He's already directed a few of the Flash tv episodes.

[mia h]

But in the past Kevin Smith has said he wouldn't do a big summer blockbuster because he's not the right kind of director to do it.
Also have figure that the director quitting has come post-Suicide Squad management reshuffle, with Geoff Johns getting more authority. So maybe this is a sign of DCEU moving away from the grim and gritty Zack Synder films.

[Mathim]

Depends who they get to direct. I nominate Kevin Smith! He's already directed a few of the Flash tv episodes.

He's definitely not the worst choice for it, he clearly loves these characters and that's more than most directors of these kinds of movies can boast and actually back up. By the way, when you say the Flash lost its director again, was it Seth Graeme-Smith or a different director this time who walked away?

But if Kevin Smith was going to direct any superhero movie, honestly, I'd say let him do Ant-Man and the Wasp. It's supposed to be lighter in tone and funnier than most other Marvel movies and since comedy is most of Smith's background, why the hell not?

[SapphireStar]

The tone of most of the movies in the DC lineup are still dark and gritty, because Zach Synder still has alot of creative control. Geoff Johns is only co-president of the DC Entertainment and apparently supposed to keep things under control. Depends how far back in the past he has said that. Quite a few have said they'd wouldn't do a "superhero" movie but have wound up doing one. Kevin Smith is at the top of my list, one because he knows the comic book world, knows the characters and has written some comics books (Black Cat and Spider-Man). Del Toro was once going to do Justice League. The dirctor of Sin City and Desperado might be an interesting choice.

[Mathim]

DC's decisions in some respect are downright unethical. I was watching a video about rumors surrounding there being a third season of Young Justice and it seems like the only reason they cancelled it was because their toys didn't sell well. And because they didn't think girls liked those kind of shows, or just didn't want girls watching them. WTF? Is that an issue with their CW shows, do those even have action figure merchandise? There's a huge disconnect between the corporate mind and the rational human mind, it's really staggering. I mean, there's so much potential in the show! They could bring in Terry McGinnis from the future like they did with Bart Allen and have Batman Beyond come to the present with his suit and his knowledge of the future and perhaps even knowing that Bruce is his biological father to create conflict, and if they want to expand their roster they still haven't tapped Raven, Starfire and Cyborg (unless he was already there...I don't remember seeing him since he can be an adult in the Justice League or younger and in the Titans age range.) Trigon would be a great plot device as a lead-in to Apokolips and War World aligning. I really want there to be a blending of post-Invasion stuff (not too far ahead, though, because the previous 5-year jump was jarring from beginning to end) and pre-Invasion so we can see some of the stuff we missed and just had to hear about. They could even bring in elements from Constantine, Swamp Thing and they Olympian gods that other series either didn't use at all or didn't use much. I would much rather have seen more of Wonder Girl and her origins in that regard. So little time for that kind of thing...but so significantly deserving of more of that time to do those things! It's just so soul-crushing that one of the things they produce that is so fucking amazingly good is getting shit-canned and the things they are royally screwing the pooch with are getting all the effort and attention.

[SapphireStar]

Which is odd given how hugely popular conventions like Wizard World, and San Diego are. And, it is not just guys who attend. While the CW shows seem to still be action oriented, they have thrown in the "romance" plots, example, Oliver and Felicity to try to draw in more female viewers. Smallville was hugely popular. There are action figures for most of the CW shows, but I don't think alot are sold mainstream like at Toys R' Us. Some you have to special order through comic book shops through the Previews catalog or buy them at conventions.

I found the 5 year jump in Young Justice a bit awkward. But, overall the series was still good despite the flaws. It all comes down to money, and what makes the most money.

[mia h]

The tone of most of the movies in the DC lineup are still dark and gritty, because Zach Synder still has alot of creative control. Geoff Johns is only co-president of the DC Entertainment and apparently supposed to keep things under control.

I think Synder's grim dark tone was the reason for the management shake up, but that's going to take come through as there's not much they can do about Wonder Woman or Justice League at this point. Personally I think they do need to lighten the tone and find ways to subvert the stereotypes; Suicide Squad, Winter Soldier, Ant Man, Guardians were all interesting because they stepped outside what is normal for a superhero film.

Depends how far back in the past he has said that. Quite a few have said they'd wouldn't do a "superhero" movie but have wound up doing one. Kevin Smith is at the top of my list, one because he knows the comic book world, knows the characters and has written some comics books (Black Cat and Spider-Man).

If I'm remembering correctly, Kevin Smith was asked about doing a DC movie after last seasons Flash episode he directed. And while might have written some comics, the few of his I have read were just bad.

[mia h]

The supporting cast list for Defenders just keeps on getting longer;
Claire Temple
Trish/Patsy Walker
Stick
Foggy Nelson
Misty Knight
Karen Page
Jerri Hogarth
Malcolm Ducasse

just waiting for them to cast the kitchen sink now.

Edit :
Arrow has just added Lexa Doig to the cast as Talia al Ghul

[Mathim]

Which is odd given how hugely popular conventions like Wizard World, and San Diego are. And, it is not just guys who attend. While the CW shows seem to still be action oriented, they have thrown in the "romance" plots, example, Oliver and Felicity to try to draw in more female viewers. Smallville was hugely popular. There are action figures for most of the CW shows, but I don't think alot are sold mainstream like at Toys R' Us. Some you have to special order through comic book shops through the Previews catalog or buy them at conventions.

I found the 5 year jump in Young Justice a bit awkward. But, overall the series was still good despite the flaws. It all comes down to money, and what makes the most money.

Awkward and jarring. I'm fine with it if they do enough to cover important events about what was missed (the circumstances that led to Aqualad's girlfriend's death, or Beast Boy's mom's death and his own powers developing). Plus, do they not know how crazy it is that it took 5 years for the Justice League to be found by the planet they attacked and be called in to court? As good as it was, those kind of things bug me as a fan.

[SapphireStar]

Those plot points, I agree too. There were alot of things left unexplained. A few other things, like what happened with Superboy and Miss Martian. How she invaded his mind and did stuff to him. I agree about the fact it took five years for the Justice League to be brought to trail. Wonder Girl's background was never explained. Beast Boy's powers were kind of explained, it was because of the blood Miss Martian gave him when he got badly injured. She had transformed her blood to become the same blood type as his, and his mother's death was the stress trigger. They also skipped over the fact about Jason Todd too, even though his hologram statue was in their base of operation.

[Mathim]

They at least touched on the Miss Martian/Superboy relationship conflicts in the first season, though. I do like them as a couple, just second to Wally/Artemis.

New Wonder Woman trailer's out. Looks better than the first, slightly less drab but still extremely unclear about how exactly Themyscira and Diana get 'roped' into World War 1. And Steve Trevor calling it 'the war to end all wars' is...well, I suppose if he's really in-character, it makes sense, but to the audience we know that's crap. Is it just me or is the acting a bit stiff, too? I mean, I kind of got that vibe from her in BvS, but Chris Pine (and I love him as Kirk) also seemed not at his best. I'm kind of hoping he dies, as a twist on the overplayed love interest thing. That hasn't happened in the MCU yet, so that would be a legit difference in the DCEU and give them an opportunity to really put their money where their mouth is when it comes to claiming the 'dark' motif as their trademark.

[SapphireStar]

What got me in the first trailer, how did foreign soldiers manage to storm Themyscira/Paradise Island? Isn't the island supposed to be invisible and protected by the Gods to prevent it from being discovered and invaded? Unless, Ares had a hand in it? So if they are invaded by foreign soldiers, and if anyone survived how is it no one mentioned it in BvS?

They said they wanted to make changes to the story of Wonder Woman instead of introducing her like originally in World War 2, they thought World War 1 would be better. Diana does outlive Steve Trevor as he is a normal human male and she is basically immortal. But, the acting is a bit stiff. Chris Pine seems like he always does in his acting.

[Mathim]

Pretty sure all the soldiers besides Steve are going to be killed-they are trespassing on Amazon land and that's a death sentence, isn't it? I mean, they surely stand no chance. Even if the Amazons don't all have Diana's bracelets, they have armor, don't they? Shields, even weapons that can overpower and block bullets, and the training to counter those speeds? Or maybe there's a gulf between how powerful Diana is and how strong the rest of them are, in the same way that there seems to be a huge gap between the strength of Thor and the other Asgardians.

Ares' scheme in Justice League Unlimited seemed to revolve around the perpetuation of violence. Maybe he wants those soldiers to be killed, as a sacrifice of some sort? Maybe to give Hades a few more souls to rule over in exchange for something...I wonder if they're going the route where he's secretly her father?

I just wish we got something, anything, indicating who or what the villain is. Her being able to whup ass on a bunch of early 20th century soldiers is really a step backwards when her first fighting scene was against fucking Doomsday and she managed to cut his arm off with little effort.

***

Okay, just got back from Doctor Strange. HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS MOVIE WAS AMAZING!

I really can't say enough nice things about it. The comedy was measured, not too over-the-top and not too frequent, just the right balance. The story was solid, well-written, the acting is above par and even the villain wasn't quite as one-dimensional as they usually are. Maybe a bit more backstory, flashbacks, could have helped a tad more, but wow, and that's not even throwing in the visual effects. While some nods to the Quantum Realm in Ant-Man resurface, so many other spectacles blow that out of the water, and I'm not even talking about the fighting scenes. It's no exaggeration that this is the most intensive VFX experience yet in cinema. I will say that I do think I may have gotten a bit of motion sickness if I saw this in 3D or IMAX but I'm going to put that to the test next week and see it again.

The mid-credits sequence was just a joy, an orgasm for fans and generous as well as setting up intrigue. The post-credits, I kind of wish was something different, like it could have been the last scene in the movie instead of a post- or mid-credits thing, but I see why they included it. Still, I'd have rather seen something alluding to a different upcoming film. At least it wasn't as almost-pointless as the one from Guardians of the Galaxy with Howard the Duck making a cameo (although seeing Adam Warlocks' cocoon having hatched might have been more significant, if it was focused on more.)

[mia h]

I found the 5 year jump in Young Justice a bit awkward. But, overall the series was still good despite the flaws.

and as of yesterday it's officially on it's way back http://www.ibtimes.co.in/dc-animated-series-young-justice-returns-season-3-703040

[mia h]

ABC have announced they are making an Inhumans show next year. It's only 8 episodes, so I'm guessing it would air during Agents of SHIELD's mid-season break next year, in the way Agent Carter did.

[Mathim]

Was Cloak and Dagger cancelled or is that still a thing? Because if this is (supposedly) going to be the last season of Agents of SHIELD I want there to at least be one other thing on normal TV from Marvel, since otherwise there's nothing in production except on Netflix.

[wander]

There's still FX's Legion, which is coproduced by Fox and Marvel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R6aJb-lBzM

With the recent possible influx of X-men books coming in after the IvX event, plus the somewhat nebulous way that it's unsure whether this is a series canon to either MCU, Fox canon, both or neither... It still looks like Marvel and Fox may be coming to some kind of arrangement ala Spiderman so we could get mutants in the MCU again.

[Mathim]

That trailer didn't make it look very appealing, but we'll see. As far as the new, post DOFP timeline I guess it might make sense as far as being canon to the X-Men movies. But it'll be a cold day in hell before Fox lets Marvel have anything back, at least not for the same reasons as Sony. They at least make a decent entry every once in a while, unlike the Sony movies. Ghost Rider, Spider-Man, they just couldn't get it right, so it's little wonder they caved. Best case scenario, Fox really needs something and has to sell back the Fantastic Four to get Marvel's permission. At least then the first family will be able to have a proper film treatment.

[wander]

James Gunn has mentioned the MCU never had the rights for

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Ego the Living Planet

for GotG2 though they managed to strike a deal with Fox to get them, also Fox and Marvel are co-making Legion, so things are blurring somewhat more now than it has been before.

[Mathim]

James Gunn has mentioned the MCU never had the rights for

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Ego the Living Planet

for GotG2 though they managed to strike a deal with Fox to get them, also Fox and Marvel are co-making Legion, so things are blurring somewhat more now than it has been before.

That doesn't make sense. Ego seems like he'd have been free game for Marvel, not too tied down to any Fantastic Four or X-Men exclusivity. Or maybe I'm not remembering right from when I read the wikipedia page. I'd take that with a grain of salt, there's not a lot of concrete information coming out of production that turns out to be accurate. Like the whole Namor rights thing. Besides, Ego would have not been the only one if that were really the case, and we'd be hearing about tons more characters being sold or leased back.

[wander]

Apparently Ego was linked to the Fantastic Four rights. Gunn has also stated when asked about The Thing possibly appearing in a new Guardians movie that the two studios are no longer chatting, so this likely seems to have been a one-time swap based off this;

At a Q&A event over the weekend, Deadpool screenwriters Paul Wernick and Rhett Reese nonchalantly revealed that Marvel Studios and Fox colluded to make major changes to Negasonic Teenage Warhead so that they could use her in Deadpool. Apparently they really liked her name, taken from the title of 90s rock song by one-hit-wonders Monster Magnet, but didn’t want to keep anything else about her. While the character’s movie rights belonged to Fox, they could not make such a drastic change to the character without Marvel’s permission. In exchange for that permission, Marvel was allowed to use Ego the Living Planet, whose rights are owned by Fox presumably as part of the Fantastic Four rights, in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Legion seems to be tied from more recent info to the Fox X-Men timeline rather than anything MCU, this may be down to the difference between Marvel Studios who now have full control of the MCU movies alone, to Marvel TV that I assume hold Agents of SHIELD (note that AoS have had no inside info for either Civil War or Dr.Strange to do proper crossovers) and, I think, the Netflix shows.

So whilst Legion doesn't seem to be set in the MCU, a division of Marvel is helping Fox get the show done.

[Mathim]

Wow, so for them to take such huge creative liberties with a character, they needed permission, and to have to concede the rights to something else (in perpetuity?) to make it happen? Righteous. I actually think it's an improvement that they went in that direction with the NSTW character, makes her more practical for the movie anyway. I hope we see more of that kind of mutually beneficial exchange. Even if it's an alternate version of the Thing, I'd fucking LOVE to see that shit, him going at it with Hulk in a gladiatorial match. In the Planet Hulk animated movie, one of the gladiators on his side was a rock dude anyway. So why not have two of the strongest muscle-head grapplers in Marvel going head-to-head at some point? Too bad, Fox will never let such a major part of their other franchise go, even for rent. What a shame. What the MCU could do with the F4 if they got them back...

[Mathim]

Okay, so evidently Doctor Strange takes place far later than I had imagined. This video seems to indicate that DS begins in early 2016 (just before Civil War) and concludes later in the year, though the mid-credits scene suggests that scene takes place approximately 1 year after the end of the film, so it's kind of all over the place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbcAtATL5rQ

[greenknight]

I can't think of a single reason to think the "now" of any MCU movie isn't "now" without a specific reference to the contrary, such as First Avenger. So unless there is a specific reference in Dr Strange otherwise, its now is after the events if Civil War and any events in Agents of SHIELD up to the release date.

[Mathim]

I can't think of a single reason to think the "now" of any MCU movie isn't "now" without a specific reference to the contrary, such as First Avenger. So unless there is a specific reference in Dr Strange otherwise, its now is after the events if Civil War and any events in Agents of SHIELD up to the release date.

SPOILERS but the movie's been out for 3 weeks now, so...

Actually, there are several reasons. Namely, the Incredible Hulk actually chronologically takes place prior to Iron man despite being released a few months after. Not to mention Iron Man is partially a flashback to his captivity and then escaping, returning to the states and constructing his armors. All that would have to take several weeks, if not months. And practically all of Captain America is a flashback to the 1940's. So there's exceptions, although every film does at least do one scene in contemporary movie-release time (the Tony meeting General Ross scene at the end of the Incredible Hulk, for instance.)

Obviously Strange needs months to recover from the wreck (prior to Civil War) and to train in the mystic arts (so we can assume it's around the time of year the movie comes out by that point) so while it doesn't start out near the time of the film's release, it does eventually get there. And then it plays around with time again (pun intended) showing Thor post-Ragnarok despite that film not coming out til nearly a year later. We should be used to the movies doing this kind of thing by now. I just feel better knowing that when Sitwell name-dropped Strange in The Winter Soldier, it wasn't because Strange was already a sorcerer in training, although with his temperament and ego, I'm amazed he was indicated as a risk to HYDRA rather than a potential ally by their algorithm.