Homosexuality Should Be Illegal

[Oniya]

This may be TMI, but I've attended a few *cough* 'clothing-optional' events.  The first time, when I got there and realized that 'they weren't kidding', I avoided looking anywhere but at people's eyes.  By the time the event was over (four-day weekend), it was no big deal, and the next time I attended - let's say I packed a lot less.  I'm sure that there were straight males and gay and bi females who could have potentially been 'scoping me out', but the respect for boundaries that everyone showed the first time made me feel a lot more comfortable.  In fact, there was a joke at the post-event pizza party of 'Oh, so that's what you look like with your clothes on!'  and variations of that from multiple people.

Now, I'm not saying that clothing-optional is any sort of solution, but we could go a long way by promoting mutual respect for boundaries. 

[Noelle]

Mutual respect is key. Forcing people into uncomfortable situations is not respectful. I think it's possible to be subtle, certainly so outside of a locker room setting, but if you're going to try and you get caught looking in a locker room, I think you have it coming that someone would be upset with you about it.

[Langueduchatte]

Thanks for your opinion, Noelle.  Just a few things, though...

Erm, it sounds to me like you're arguing that being gay is a pass to sexually objectify anyone you want without consequence and it should be okay because that other person is probably just afraid they'll like it and they do other things that could be perceived as homoerotic anyway. This does not bode well with me.

Erm...well, I have thought much about how to reply to this. And there are a number of ways to answer, so, I'll try this one:
It sounds like that to you?  Ok.  You can chose to (mis)interpret what I wrote in any way you please.

Even if that's not what you're saying, using it as justification is a bit of a poor excuse anyway -- what does it matter, even if they really are just "afraid they might like it"? Isn't it their business as to whether or not they want to explore that and through what means, if any?

I like the way you start that sentence.  "Even if..."  It's a good trick.  Because even if I choose to explain myself now...well, is there really a point in bothering?


Like I say, you could interpret it that way.  But for me when you get to

If a man used that excuse against a woman, you know that just wouldn't fly; you can't say "I grabbed your ass, but I thought you might like it!"

it may come across as a well-reasoned argument, but that could also be interpreted as sophistry.

It doesn't matter if I did or didn't like it, forcing others in vulnerable situations to confront that is always inappropriate. It doesn't matter if I like to make out with girls at the bar or if a man wants to do dumb stuff like snap each other with towels out of the shower, it's not a carte blanche for anyone else in the locker room to stare in an objectifying manner at other people in a state of undress.

Couldn't agree more.
I think I'll bow out of this one.  Clearly I'm not intelligent enough, so I'll keep my opinions to myself!
:D

[Noelle]

If you interpreted what I said as offensive or questioning your intelligence, I apologize if that's how it came across because it wasn't my intent. I am open to clarification on your points that I misinterpreted -- I can't read your mind, so my interpretation is really all I've got for you, but if you're done, you're done, and I will respect that. However, passing up any and all discussion by writing off everything I said as sophistry and with your own sarcasm is also kind of disrespectful.