Gaddafi -- What a jerk

[Missy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14753645

I've been following this story loosely, as it's so popular, and have been largely without opinion since I wasn't too involved with the story or the relevant events.

But today I read the above article which started with his statement:

"The Libyan people cannot kneel, cannot surrender, we are not women," he said in the message on the al-Rai channel.

What an ass! Women can't be Libyans now? Good riddance pal, hope they drop your brain-pan.

So basically I'm all in for the revolution now. Go for Freedom and Democracy boys and girls!

[Lilias]

Considering he used to be guarded by an elite corps of female bodyguards, that's all 'do as I say, not as I do' tripe.

[Callie Del Noire]

Considering he used to be guarded by an elite corps of female bodyguards, that's all 'do as I say, not as I do' tripe.

He's not what you'd call the most.. stable of political types. :D

[Oniya]

I could make a number of comments about how many things he's overlooked (repopulation after the revolution being the least of them). 

I'll just leave it at the absolute folly of alienating half your population.  And presumably that corps of bodyguards.

[gaggedLouise]

I loved the BBC interview early this summer where he was saying things like "They love me, all of them!" and "Have you seen any protests around here? None, and now that the hangover is going off, they're back in their beds" (the second half of that one referring to places like Benghazi where not even Gaddafi could deny that protests and street fighting were going on). It was soooo ludicrous. But of course he was a grimy dictator too, and I'm very happy he's been fought down - and that it's the Libyans themselves who have been doing most of the really hard and bitter work, who have paid in blood and sweat for this revolt.

[Lilias]

I'll just leave it at the absolute folly of alienating half your population.  And presumably that corps of bodyguards.

He used to boast that they'd protect him to the last. Of course they ran for it long before the front broke. We girls are sensible. XD

[Sure]

I doubt any unit issued high heels rather than boots is actually combat effective.

[Reagan]

Gaddafi is being investigated for the use of rape as a sanctioned weapon.  He is also reportedly guilty of using innocent female and child civilians as a human shield to allow them to retreat without being attacked.

So yeah, what a jerk.

I have my doubts though as regards the kind of peace and freedom we'll leave in our wake.  We still have too many lessons to learn from the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13705854

[Missy]

Peace and Freedom is about people respecting other peoples rights. Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness is only possible if people respect one another. It's not about us, it's about the Libyans and the decisions they make once they have the opportunity. Libyans will decide whether to form some type of perverse vigilante-theocracy-society, for example, or to actually bear respect for one another's faith. America turned out well because we chose the latter in our time. Many other nations have worked out because when it came time they chose the latter. Part of the problem in Iraq was that they chose the prior (though I'm sure it's not the only problem). Additionally Afganistan has an issue with corruption in it's political ranks. Both examples are crippling, only time will tell if the Libyans work out to join the free-world sisters as a stable nation, but we cannot make them stable, that is up to the collective decisions of the Libyan majority.

[Ironwolf85]

agreed, many nations have their own problems nowadays, but at least the first and second world powers are lot more stable and prosperious than we used to be, and it's because of our choices not some mandate.

Gaddafi is a moron, and deluded about his own grandure. one minute he's gladly taking western assistance for his troops and infastructure, he next he's calling us all "imperialists, invaders, forgin devils" because we didn't support his regime when the people chose to revolt for the right reasons. I think that says we here in the US have grown up a little since the cold war.

[Inkidu]

You, sir, win the internet for the the most litotic (I'm guessing that's what it is since it's hyperbole, hyperbolic) title of the day. He truly is a grade-A tool.

[Ironwolf85]

no no inkidu, he is no simple tool, normal mortal men are tools (makes a fake dramatic gesture) the great and glorious leader of lybia is the hand crafted, plastic handled, carbon steel, 8 million dollar tool

[Oniya]

no no inkidu, he is no simple tool, normal mortal men are tools (makes a fake dramatic gesture) the great and glorious leader of lybia is the hand crafted, plastic handled, carbon steel, 8 million dollar tool

There you go - military overspending.  (joke)

[Callie Del Noire]

I don't think he's insane.. maybe a bit of an ego maniac.. but not outright froth at the brain loony toons. That isn't to say he's not dangerous. He is.. he values no life besides his own. I'm quite sure he'd shoot his own children in the street if it gave him a remote chance of getting back up on top.

[gaggedLouise]

Well, Gaddafi has lost  none of his ability to sound like the Emperor Caligula (or the Emperor Jones), as if he were living in a dimension of his own. This afternoon he made a statement in a video tape presented on Syrian state tv. Quote:

"This magnificent regime is impossible to bring down! How can they speak of having toppled the Gaddafi regime, a regime that is represented in the hearts of all the millions of Libyans? Even speaking of any such toppling of Gaddafi incites laughter and sarcasm."

Those who died in the final battle for Tripoli will be rolling with laughter in their graves.

[TheGlyphstone]

Whelp, problem solved. Much as the 'killing a prisoner' bit grates on me a little, I really cannot blame them at all.

[Scribbles]

I couldn't watch the whole video of his capture... Even if he was "evil" I'm not sure anyone deserves to be treated like that.

Oddly enough, many young Africans are outraged over this event. They see it as a grab for Libyan resources by the "imperialists".

[Spiked Hibiscus]

Hmm call me a cynic but I've viewed this whole Lybia fiasco with a raised eyebrow.

I question the West's intentions, i really do. I think we are being fed a shit load of propaganda.

It was only a few years ago that Bush and Blair were breaking bread with Gaddafi. The west have a very hypocritical and mixed way of dealing with 'dictators'. It's seems like dictators with oil (and other resources) = bad and must be dethroned under the west's supervision whilst dictators sitting on a mountain of dirt are left alone to torture and exploit their people.

[Callie Del Noire]

Libya has always been.. difficult to deal with in the West.

[gaggedLouise]

I'd have preferred to see him go on trial, but hey I just feel he finally got what he deserved. The comment by one young soldier in the band that caught him says it all: "He called us dirty rats, but look where we found him!" (in the sewer pipe, literally)

Libya has a long way uphill that's for sure, and the really important things the west can help them with now aren't about soldiers but about building and protecting free media outlets, a safe and non-corrupted judiciary, civil services and political institutions, the kind of services and mentalities MG razed into the ground during forty years of dictatorship-

[gaggedLouise]

The now unseated dictator wrote a few books too: one collection of short stories was called Escape to Hell - not from Hell, which might have been a better fit.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2010/mar/24/dictator-lit-gaddafi

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8744/dsreview.htm

[Zeitgeist]

Is it at all noteworthy that we, the US, treated Osama Bin Laden's body with more deference and dignity than the Libyan people have show the body of Gaddafi? That's not a completely rhetorical question. I don't have any problem with the way Gaddafi died, but this ongoing display of his body is getting a tad gruesome and unseemly no?

http://rt.com/news/gaddafi-body-diplay-burial-493/

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

[TheGlyphstone]

Gruesome? Definitely.
Unseemly? Probably.
Unreasonable? Maybe.
Unexpected? Hell no.

Bin Laden, while an avowed enemy of the US, wasn't an avowed enemy while also nominally the person with sole supreme authority over leading and protecting the US. The Libyans have 40-odd years of oppression and brutality to work out on him, or at least his corpse.

[Callie Del Noire]

He still got better treatment than Mousolini did. 

[Scribbles]

The display is probably creating sympethisers and I've already seen comments about him being a leader, hero and martyr from a few people.

[Izzie Aditi]

From the first time I've seen and heard him speak on television, I thought he was one sandwich short of a picnic. His speeches were almost comedy to watch and were usually followed by a lot of "he said what?!" comments. Dangerous man nonetheless, completely self-centered and to be that way in a position of power..well..we all saw what happened.

However, the news about him the last few days has made me sick to my stomach. Yes, he was an awful man who hurt a lot of people (this is an understatement, obviously), but all the things I've seen are downright inhuman. The Libyan people have stooped to his level by being this way and being proud of it. This was, in my opinion, not the way to handle things.   

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back."

</devil's advocate>

[krakenknight]

I couldn't watch the whole video of his capture... Even if he was "evil" I'm not sure anyone deserves to be treated like that.

Oddly enough, many young Africans are outraged over this event. They see it as a grab for Libyan resources by the "imperialists".

If you're talking about the ANC Youth league then its more a case of Gaddafi was funding them but yeah.

From the first time I've seen and heard him speak on television, I thought he was one sandwich short of a picnic. His speeches were almost comedy to watch and were usually followed by a lot of "he said what?!" comments. Dangerous man nonetheless, completely self-centered and to be that way in a position of power..well..we all saw what happened.

However, the news about him the last few days has made me sick to my stomach. Yes, he was an awful man who hurt a lot of people (this is an understatement, obviously), but all the things I've seen are downright inhuman. The Libyan people have stooped to his level by being this way and being proud of it. This was, in my opinion, not the way to handle things.   

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back."

</devil's advocate>

You never heard his "United States of Africa" proposal. Of course he would have been president for life

[Izzie Aditi]

You never heard his "United States of Africa" proposal. Of course he would have been president for life

I have, as a matter of fact. I'm however not sure how that is relevant to the point I've been trying to make. Yes, it's better that he is dead and buried, again..I'm completely agreeing that he was one pashmina short of a wardrobe. I'm mainly pointing out this whole aftermath is disrespectful. Does a man that horrible deserve respect one could ask, he surely never showed anyone a lot of respect. I'm somewhat torn about that myself as well, given how many people suffered under his regime. However, I would've found it more suitable had they just announced his death and be done with it. He doesn't deserve all the "television time" he's getting now, and as pointed out before, people will see him as a martyr.   

[krakenknight]

I have, as a matter of fact. I'm however not sure how that is relevant to the point I've been trying to make. Yes, it's better that he is dead and buried, again..I'm completely agreeing that he was one pashmina short of a wardrobe. I'm mainly pointing out this whole aftermath is disrespectful. Does a man that horrible deserve respect one could ask, he surely never showed anyone a lot of respect. I'm somewhat torn about that myself as well, given how many people suffered under his regime. However, I would've found it more suitable had they just announced his death and be done with it. He doesn't deserve all the "television time" he's getting now, and as pointed out before, people will see him as a martyr.

I'll agree with what you're saying the way that the circus around the man's death has erupted is shameful, however at least he got knocked off by his own people and since he's a muslim they'll bury him before the week's out.

I will mention that there are groups heaviliy pushing his image back into the limelight. They're the people he bankrolled and buddied up to in order to further his selfish agenda. They need him to be a martyr because it further's their own image.

I wish that someone would account for the huge sums of money he funnelled into destabilising and buying off the continent's leadership.
One of the main reasons that the AU dragged its feet on recognising the NTC because half its sub saharan members owed Gaddafi a favour or 2. (ANC, ZANU PF SWAPO and the current govt of Mozambique all owe they're rise to power to Libyan oil money).

[Scribbles]

If you're talking about the ANC Youth league then its more a case of Gaddafi was funding them but yeah.

No, the African youth in general. Not all of them of course but there is already a heavy anti-West sentiment developing amongst many of the young in Africa. I should probably mention that this is based off what I've seen and heard as well as what I've managed to gleam from the media, so I could be wrong.

[krakenknight]

No, the African youth in general. Not all of them of course but there is already a heavy anti-West sentiment developing amongst many of the young in Africa.

Which African youth? I'm an African youth (24) and I think the French did is a service arming the rebels. I can acknowledge that there is an anti-western sentiment in many African countries mostly driven by inept leaders blaming local problems on america, a belief helpfully enforced by America's bizarre foreign policy and the cultural climate of denial here in Africa.

Truthfully most African youths have no idea what they want, poverty unemployment and lack of constructive education is breeding an underclass of people easy to indoctrinate in their leader's schemes of patronage.

[Oniya]

The constant parading of Gaddafi is reminding me of the old Wild West posters where they would show a dead outlaw.

[Zakharra]

I have, as a matter of fact. I'm however not sure how that is relevant to the point I've been trying to make. Yes, it's better that he is dead and buried, again..I'm completely agreeing that he was one pashmina short of a wardrobe. I'm mainly pointing out this whole aftermath is disrespectful. Does a man that horrible deserve respect one could ask, he surely never showed anyone a lot of respect. I'm somewhat torn about that myself as well, given how many people suffered under his regime. However, I would've found it more suitable had they just announced his death and be done with it. He doesn't deserve all the "television time" he's getting now, and as pointed out before, people will see him as a martyr.

People will see him as a martyr anyways and the ones that rebelled against him have 40 odd years of rightful anger, hatred and frustration to let out. Like it or not, he was the symbol of their repression and they can now let it out fully. Besides, it's a pivotal moment in Libya.

[Izzie Aditi]

People will see him as a martyr anyways and the ones that rebelled against him have 40 odd years of rightful anger, hatred and frustration to let out. Like it or not, he was the symbol of their repression and they can now let it out fully. Besides, it's a pivotal moment in Libya.

I didn't say I couldn't fully see where they're coming from, I think I've made that completely clear in my last two messages. I was merely pointing out my dislike of the way they decided to deal with it and how the media -here in Europe anyway- have decided to air this story.

[gaggedLouise]

The constant parading of Gaddafi is reminding me of the old Wild West posters where they would show a dead outlaw.

True, but many of the really graphic pictures come from the mobile phones of soldiers and ordinary people in the area. If the death of princess Diana had happened now, you'd have had really close-up pictures of her in the car wreck in the papers a few days after. In the fifteen years in between, phone cameras and small video recorders have spread to most parts of the world.

I saw a two-page spread of a picture with the man dead, lying on back and bleeding from the head and stomach surrounded by young Libyan fighters, taken by a pro news photographer with an Arabic name. It was very graphic and, I would say, nicely compositioned (tv channels in the Middle East, like al-Jazeera, have been more willing to show the really grisly amateur pictures than e.g. BBC or CNN)

Two out of three of the guys in the pic were waving their cell phones - they either were taking pictures of him or had already snapped some.

[Scribbles]

Which African youth?

As I said, I'm talking in general. I'd be hardpressed to point out a specific group or organisation.