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Author Topic: Transplanting the human head/brain  (Read 4648 times)

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Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Transplanting the human head/brain
« on: July 03, 2013, 03:13:23 AM »
Transplantations of human heads are now feasible, says Italian neurosurgeon

With the advances in stem cells technology and regeneration of nerve fibre, the idea of fitting a head to a new body has become plausible and could be realized soon, surgeon Dr Sergio Canavero thinks, and says he has a blueprint for how to achieve it. He cautions that early operations might not lead to full control of the body from the adapted brain (presumably from a young or mid-life individual, so that it would not be in 'worn' condition*), but even if only 10% of the spinal stem "corridor" cells reconnected with the new brain, it would give the patient the means to live some kind of feasible life.

Quote
Dr Canavero concludes by saying “body image and identity issues will need to be addressed, as the patient gets used to seeing and using the new body”.

He said: “HEAVEN appears to have grown into a feasible enterprise early in the 21st century,” but added that he has not considered the ethical implications of his proposal.


Any thoughts? Honestly this gives me the shivers, it opens up all sorts of weird and unsavoury possibilities: selling heads and brains, fitting old people's brains onto a young body or a young brain onto another young body, extension of the human lifespan into hundreds of years, grafting of chips and body images onto a brain etc. I can see some uses that would be morally right of course, but opening up this field looks like a Pandora's box loaded with some very difficult and unsettling issues.


*Edit: early operations in this vein could be set either way of course, the head of an old man fitted to a young body to bid farewell to a crippling disease, a young one's head onto a body of roughly the same age, after let's say a grave car crash, or part of a young brain aligned to the brain and body of an older patient to remedy a localized brain disease or tumour.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 12:15:25 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 10:17:02 AM »
I was surprised to find this actually has a journal citation.  I'm not sure if SNI is peer-reviewed, but it is indexed on PubMed.

http://www.surgicalneurologyint.com/article.asp?issn=2152-7806;year=2013;volume=4;issue=2;spage=335;epage=342;aulast=Canavero

Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2013, 01:03:10 PM »
Thanks for looking up the actual publication, Oniya. I'm not sure on his idea of fastening the head to the new body with a "polymer gel" (and perhaps some kind of steel bolts and surgical thread too?) and there are big questions surrounding how to get "donated bodies" of course - it would have to be someone who had died within hours or at most a few days of the operation and whose below-the-neck body was quite undamaged and could be revived with a new head: hard conditions! And at the same time, there could be huge financial interests pulled to this.

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2013, 01:07:24 PM »
I think most organ donations (and this would probably include full bodies) have to occur within hours of death.  Now, there's a difference between full death and brain death - you might have bodies that are brain-dead kept 'viable' by means of heart/lung machines for a considerable duration.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2013, 03:05:43 PM »
More than likely this would fall under state procurement agencies or similar such position in other countries.  There are very specific conditions required for organ donations and such restrictions would more than likely be extended to a full body donation.  Honestly I am unsure of how this would work from a practical standpoint because medicine looks to help the “most” and not simply the fewest.  Triage is performed that way and medicine is similarly conditioned to do so.  An actual intact body that could provide for such a surgery would benefit so many people if pieces were taken rather than the one person for the whole.  I don’t see much of a future for head transplants except as a curiosity and an extreme circumstance.

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2013, 03:14:12 PM »
An actual intact body that could provide for such a surgery would benefit so many people if pieces were taken rather than the one person for the whole.

My late father-in-law (Mr. Oniya's step-father, but the father that he admired most) was an organ recipient - both lungs, if I remember right.  I remember seeing literature around the apartment about how many people one organ donor could save - everything from vital organs like kidneys, lungs, and the liver (which can actually be dissected to replace a child's organ) to skin grafts for burn victims, and corneas.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2013, 03:15:27 PM »
Plus bones and intestines are useful as well.  There are a great many that can be helped and saved with transplants.

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2013, 03:19:02 PM »
*grins*  I wasn't about to give an exhaustive list.  Most people think about the vital organs and forget the rest of the parts.  Transplanting a kidney is seen as 'heroic surgery' - transplanting a couple square feet of epidermis isn't as 'sexy' (but it's just as life-saving).

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2013, 03:27:58 PM »
Livers are the fun ones.

Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2013, 03:51:03 PM »
Imagine having to handle the thought - on the part of the family of a donor - that you might get to see the body of your loved one, recognize instantly its shape, its muscles, and some of the patterns of movement you knew when that person was alive - but then it's another person, a completely different one. "Ain't that Caroline over there?" - "No, umm... it isn't  it's..."

That's a completely different game than asking yourself if you'd want your deceased son's lungs to benefit somebody else. I don't think there would be a lot of people accepting it, but what if we'd get "body trade" with, for instance, the bodies of executed prisoners from abroad. Presumably someone who had been hanged would make a better donor than somebody who'd been given an injection in a U.S. prison and who has been on death row for fifteen years, and it might prove much easier and cheaper to procure a foreign body.  :-(

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2013, 03:59:04 PM »
Depends, if the hung body did not break their neck on the descent then the body would not work.  Oxygen deprivation to the organs cannot be tolerated for long.  Typically a nurse is on hand with potential organ donation candidates to maintain oxygen flow to those organs and body parts.  Also the buying/selling of organs, tissue, body parts, etc for the purpose of transplant is strictly forbidden and closely monitored.  Plus a head transplant would required advanced medical facilities along with extensive post-operative care and a trained staff.  That is not easily hidden.

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2013, 04:00:31 PM »
I'd think breaking the neck might have some small effect on the viability of the spinal cord.  Just sayin'.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2013, 04:01:57 PM »
Well the cord is severed.  Not sure how intact the cord must be since they are going to severe the head anyway.

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2013, 04:07:18 PM »
He mentions an ultra-sharp scalpel (I did a quickie read-through on the article).  I imagine there's a difference in the comparative amount of trauma inflicted by snapping the neck from surgically cutting the cord.  At least, I know there's a difference if I break string or tear paper with my hands instead of cutting it with scissors.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2013, 04:16:10 PM »
Huh...body procurement would be hard.

Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2013, 04:26:15 PM »
I'd think breaking the neck might have some small effect on the viability of the spinal cord.  Just sayin'.

I stand corrected.  ;D

Offline ralia

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2013, 08:40:09 PM »
To be entirely honest (and ignoring the legal/ethical/cost questions that arise about a donor...), the idea of a new body intrigues me from a transgender standpoint.  A fully functional body that could get pregnant, or get someone else pregnant, would really be a positive for a lot of people looking to transition but maybe are unsure about the completeness of the results of altering their body--needing to transition the face/head instead of the whole body becomes a very different ballgame in that regard.

Perhaps for some individuals like that, there could be a body trade system in place?  With two willing volunteers.

I mean, until we all just become robots.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2013, 02:14:00 AM »
Imagine having to handle the thought - on the part of the family of a donor - that you might get to see the body of your loved one, recognize instantly its shape, its muscles, and some of the patterns of movement you knew when that person was alive - but then it's another person, a completely different one. "Ain't that Caroline over there?" - "No, umm... it isn't  it's..."

This part intrigues me the most. The first question that came to mind was that of self. If I suddenly have someone else's body from the chin down, how might it affect my sense of self? I might feel like I was still me mentally but not physically. When I look at myself, I'd see someone else's body. I can't help but wonder if that person would be likely to experience some confusion regarding this obvious contradiction?

I have to wonder if sex might be awkward - knowing that when you touch yourself, its really someone else, or knowing that when you are complimented on your body, its really someone else's monster dick or double d's that the other person is wowed by. Could you really call self gratification masturbation since you are kind of giving someone else ( a dead person ) a hand job in doing so?  o.O

( Yes, I'm only being half serious here )

Interesting stuff...


Offline Nachtmahr

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2013, 07:49:32 AM »
I'm not a neuro-scientist by any stretch of the imagination, but surely I'd think that you could only fit somehwat same-age brains into about same-age bodies? When I say 'around' the same age, I'm reffering to a tops 20 years gap, between people of which the oldest would be around 60.

I don't think this would ever cause anyone to be able to extend their life through the use of new bodies, at least not on a huge scale, because you have to remember that this person would have to 'bring' his/her brain along for the ride every time, and that on it's own sounds quite risky to me. Then there is the psychological impact of someone creating a new identity every 50 years - How long would it be until you start forgetting who you once were and where you came from? Already around the age of 30-40 the average person will start to forget about their motives and the factors that shaped their identity in their early-to-mid teen years, simply because you've already overstretched your brains capacity for information at that point.

You also have to keep in mind that the brain, like any other organ, has an infant stage, evolves, matures and eventually, deteriorates. Anyone who would be at risk of amnesia, or other mental disorders that can be caused by brain degeneration, would probable still come to suffer from these issues, and one day the brain would simply stop functioning: It's not made with 200 years of use in mind.

I don't know - This is more me trying to fit it all in my own head, before someone takes it over, and I'm not a scientist, to please don't harass me if some of it doesn't add up. I've studied psychology at a medium level for two years at one point, so I can back a bit of it up, but I'm not here to start a fight.

Anyways, my oppinion on the matter? I think, much like the creator of the topic, that the extremely scary part is the idea of entire bodies, with the brain about to be, or already, surgically removed, for sale on the black market like any other organ. I think this is a very real concern, and it would happen. There are plenty of people exploiting poorer coomunities around the world, stealing their organs, or indeed their bodies, in the case of human traficking/forced prostitution. Unless we can make it so that you cannot steal a person, then our world is not ready for this kind of science yet.

And how would you pick the donors anyway? You men and women who died of matters that did not take an extensive toll on their body? Or does the subject have to be alive during this process, in which case, can they just signs a consent form and give their bodies away for 'adoption'? Is it fair to the parents of a young and pretty girl, sadly deceased, to have the risk of bumping into their -actual- daughter, in flesh and blood, but with some old hag's brain controlling it like it was a puppet?

I think this could open up wondrous opportunities, but those are outweighed by the horrors that it could bring.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2013, 03:48:11 PM »
As I'm reading this, I can't help thinking what a freaky, dramatic story one could make out of this.... Hot women and men nabbed, gagged, bound, and warehoused somewhere only to have their brains removed and replaced with those of more subservient, kinky, hosts... then sold as sex slaves to wealthy, powerful bidders. Add in all the mental confusion and identity issues, a male brain in a woman's body, perhaps one *altered* slave suddenly recognizing their new body given a tattoo or something ... jeez...



Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2013, 03:52:01 PM »
Or on the flip side, someone who needs to be 'disappeared' gets kidnapped, 'transplanted' into a new body that no one will recognize (maybe a 'hot one', possibly of the opposite sex), and forced into slavery (perhaps sexual).

Offline Nachtmahr

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2013, 09:11:58 PM »
Hmm.. Is this very quickly becoming a rather interesting plot for anyone other than me?

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2013, 11:50:15 PM »
Hmm.. Is this very quickly becoming a rather interesting plot for anyone other than me?

xD

Perhaps if it was a male brain with a woman's body, he might for some reason have difficulty in mapping sensations in his/her breasts correctly and either not feel them at all or feel said sensations in the wrong places. Perhaps some breast bondage, nipple teasing, swatting and such would be used to train the dumb male brain to correctly associate the sensations with the physicals breasts and nipples. He/she might still feel his former penis even though its not really there ( like what some amputees go through ) and thus need a series of ad hoc *treatments* to force him/her to disassociate with the former member. Treatments might include public humiliation while sissified, scissoring, some form of knife play to reinforce the belief that there is no member there... that and repeated, vigorous fucking ( both orifices simultaneously )







Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2013, 12:40:40 AM »
Ah - just a reminder.  This part of the forums is on the public side.  Please take graphic plotting to a more appropriate venue.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2013, 12:42:18 AM »
Oops... sorry xD

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2013, 08:13:53 PM »
You know.. Robert Heinlein wrote a book on that. Old guy getting transplanted into a woman's body. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Will_Fear_No_Evil

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2013, 08:18:27 PM »
And from what I remember, he said the sex was amazing.

He also came up with the ideas for the waterbed and the 'waldo' remote manipulator.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 08:20:03 PM by Oniya »

Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2013, 04:05:53 AM »
Or on the flip side, someone who needs to be 'disappeared' gets kidnapped, 'transplanted' into a new body that no one will recognize (maybe a 'hot one', possibly of the opposite sex), and forced into slavery (perhaps sexual).

As a domme I know once told me "It is not unheard of for a person to swap places with their slave persona." The persona would move to the place of real self, controlling or sometimes bleeping out what used to be her/his former vanilla person  - and that swap could include a gender change, of course.

Offline Synecdoche17

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2013, 06:24:23 PM »
Just as a heads-up (snicker) we're now on the verge of being able to grow or print organs. The future body you swap into may be an actual body grown for you from scratch.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 03:41:39 PM »
Well honestly once we're at the point of growing a body there will be no real need for much of this.  Through synthesizing of stem cells there will be the ability to just supply the body with endless resources to fix itself. 

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2013, 03:45:58 PM »
I remembered reading that they'd printed a kidney recently.  Or, at least a framework that could be used to coax self-donated cells into the right configuration or somesuch.  Kidneys are complicated little buggers.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2013, 03:49:23 PM »
They are important little organs that just don't get their proper respect.

Offline Kekec

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2013, 07:26:41 AM »
Any thoughts? Honestly this gives me the shivers, it opens up all sorts of weird and unsavoury possibilities: selling heads and brains, fitting old people's brains onto a young body or a young brain onto another young body, extension of the human lifespan into hundreds of years

That wouldn't be possible.  Even if they managed to do a successful brain transplant (which they will almost certainly never be able to do), the age of a brain cannot be rejuvenated. So, putting the brain of an elderly person into the body of a younger one would result in the same lifespan, since the brain has already deteriorated, and it would continue to decay as a seventy-year old brain despite being in a twenty-five-year old body.

Offline SK0M

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2013, 06:19:58 PM »
I mean...I am always for things that can help people medically.  But this...honestly...like anything else will have the wrong people doing wrong things.  For every new ability we as humans gain has two sides:  The uses for good and the uses for the bad.

Offline Florence

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2013, 07:50:27 AM »
As a transhumanist, I see a lot of great potential from this :>

Though personally, I'd like to see robotics progress a little more. I mean, what's the point, in the long run, of transplanting my brain from one deteriorating fleshy meatsack to the next? Even if we could combat the problem of neural decay, there's just the logistics of providing a lot of people with new bodies every time they need a new one :U

Cloning could help I suppose, but why not just built a shiny metal and plastic body, and slap it in there. Occasional tune-up, replace a broken part every now and then and you're good to go :>

... on that note, if we ever got fully-cyborg bodies, I wonder what the odds are that one of the first operations would be a wealthy otaku getting their brain implanted into Motoko Kusanagi's body.

Offline Moraline

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2013, 12:33:47 PM »
Just as a heads-up (snicker) we're now on the verge of being able to grow or print organs. The future body you swap into may be an actual body grown for you from scratch.
This would be amazing. That would mean that I could have clones of my own body grown. Then when I get old I could get my mind transplanted into a young healthy me. I would be IMMORTAL! MUAHAHAHA!

NSFW comment
That or I'd get my mind transplanted into a hunky man body with a big penis and masturbate all day. I always wondered what It felt like to cum from a man's perspective. I would pop viagara and rub that thing raw. HAHA

OH OH! I would totally go out and pick up hot chicks too. Dammit.. Now my mind is going all RP muse on me.



Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2013, 01:08:31 PM »
Go read 'I Will Fear No Evil' by Heinlein.  Seriously.

Offline didoanna

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2013, 07:26:35 AM »

That's a completely different game than asking yourself if you'd want your deceased son's lungs to benefit somebody else. I don't think there would be a lot of people accepting it, but what if we'd get "body trade" with, for instance, the bodies of executed prisoners from abroad. Presumably someone who had been hanged would make a better donor than somebody who'd been given an injection in a U.S. prison and who has been on death row for fifteen years, and it might prove much easier and cheaper to procure a foreign body.  :-(

With the uber-rich having access to the sort of cash they have, you can bet as soon as it is do-able they'll be getting it done....which then in turn leads to - well, umm, kinda mass-markets - bit like the car really.  Hey, I bet the govt. would approve of it provided you had to pay them a fee or buy a licence of something like that for permission.

Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2013, 05:06:13 AM »
Remote Brain-to-brain messagings and actions

One brain sends instructions to another grain hundreds of meters away and moves the second person's finger in a deliberate way

"U.S. scientists are reporting a non-invasive, human-to-human brain interface allowing one researcher to control the hand movements of a fellow researcher.
Using electrical brain recordings and a form of magnetic stimulation, University of Washington researcher Rajesh Rao sent a brain signal to fellow scientist Andrea Stocco on the other side of the university campus, causing Stocco's finger to move on a keyboard.

Rao and Stocco said they believe this is the first demonstration of human-to-human brain interfacing. "The Internet was a way to connect computers, and now it can be a way to connect brains," Stocco said. "We want to take the knowledge of a brain and transmit it directly from brain to brain."

Essentially, person A (Rao) consciously thought about moving his finger in a way that would have it press a key and fire a cannon in the on-screen video game in front of him, but was careful not to make any movements of his hand or finger. The neural signal was transmitted through the air between his research helmet and an electrode-wired headgear on person B (Stocco) elsewhere on the campus, and B's finger twitched and moved to the very same key on his keyboard as the one A was thinking of pressing, although B had no idea of what action would be attempted, what key the other one might press, or indeed what finger he would choose. In fact, B didn't have a screen to look at.

This is amazing and, like the head transplantation scheme, is bound to set one's thoughts going in all directions. If you can do this with two brains, separated by a fairly wide space, it would surely be possible in the future to exchange either part for a computer. So a pc, a smartphone or a robot could be used to make one person - or a thousand - perform a movement. Or a series of movements. Or create or suggest memories in those people. Or even bleep out memories? Zombies, anyone? Or literally getting inside someone else's mind?

Of course the researchers stress this is very bare-bones and doesn't offer any chances, at this point, of doing anything advanced or forcing anyone's hand if they don't want the action, but well...That's true about this early stage, what about the future though?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 05:08:58 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline GarthMarenghi

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2013, 07:42:14 AM »
As someone that thinks of the body being more of a transportation vehicle and the brain being a pilot, I find the idea rather interesting.
(I realise how important the body is and how dependant on each other they are but everything that makes up a person is within the brain, their own personal thoughts, feelings, memories, etc)

If we could switch bodies but keep our exact same brain intact then it might become popular and allow for alot of interesting experiments, like if you put a dogs brain into a human body would the dog be able to learn how to use the human voice box and communicate properly? it would give us insight into their world and what they think, even if it's just of food and going for walks. We could also move our brains into a robotic body once robotics has been advanced far enough to make life living as one an upgrade.
If I ever saw someone that I knew but with someone elses mind it would shock me for sure, but I wouldn't really be offended or angered as long as the original body gave permission instead of some horrible "body snatching" incident.

I don't think cloning will ever be the answer unless removing the clones brain (or growing them without one?) and then moving our brain into it, if we just created a clone with the exact same thoughts, memories, way of thinking then that person still isn't you, you don't suddenly start seeing from 4 eyes instead of 2 or thinking with 2 minds since the clone is a completely different person with his very own conscious instead of an extension of your own life.
The same problem would come from trying to copy our memories/thoughts over onto something digital or another brain, it might move everything across but it wouldn't move the conscious so the real "you" would end up dying as soon as the originals are deleted. (Unless they find a way to move one conscious over to another which is far beyond our capabilities at the moment)

It's an interesting topic and I hope some of what I said made sense.

Offline Moraline

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2013, 08:25:05 AM »
Remote Brain-to-brain messagings and actions

One brain sends instructions to another grain hundreds of meters away and moves the second person's finger in a deliberate way

"U.S. scientists are reporting a non-invasive, human-to-human brain interface allowing one researcher to control the hand movements of a fellow researcher.
Using electrical brain recordings and a form of magnetic stimulation, University of Washington researcher Rajesh Rao sent a brain signal to fellow scientist Andrea Stocco on the other side of the university campus, causing Stocco's finger to move on a keyboard.

...
We are Borg, you will be assimilated.  Hive mind anyone?

Seriously though, the possibilities are endless. Transferring thoughts, memories... just damn anything. Who needs the internet when we can just plug our minds into a data jack and communicate via fibre to other brains all over the globe. That is some serious cyberpunk shit right there. So many scary and yet fantastic possibilities. I think my mind is melting at the concept.

*edit*
/palmface. Here I am thinking plug into a datajack.. so old school. We just do this shit via wifi/bluetooth now.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 08:28:13 AM by Moraline »

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2013, 08:42:13 AM »
*edit*
/palmface. Here I am thinking plug into a datajack.. so old school. We just do this shit via wifi/bluetooth now.

It's okay.  Some of us have read the Shadowrun source books.  ;)

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Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2013, 08:55:46 AM »
"They said they plugged all of their brains into the same amp. I didn't even know what an amp was!"

-goofed-up quote from legendary sixties DJ Lord Tim about how he met the Beatles on a boat in the English Channel. The one word that's been changed out is, of course, "instruments"...  :D
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 09:00:20 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Moraline

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2013, 09:22:22 AM »
It's okay.  Some of us have read the Shadowrun source books.  ;)
Tell me Google Glasses doesn't remind you sooo much of Shadowrun? Now add to that brain transplants and the ability to mentally share thoughts/memories/sensations via brain waves.  This thread is seriously causing my mind to freak out. HAHA


Shadowrun (Via the Shadowrun - Seattle 2070 group game Wiki)


Google Glass



Offline GarthMarenghi

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2013, 09:30:42 AM »
Tell me Google Glasses doesn't remind you sooo much of Shadowrun? Now add to that brain transplants and the ability to mentally share thoughts/memories/sensations via brain waves.  This thread is seriously causing my mind to freak out. HAHA

Imagine all the advertisements though, sent directly into your brain and causing you to buy whatever they want. Instead of seeing images and banners they'll just be able to give you the thought/feeling of wanting to buy their products.

Not to mention the privacy issues with recording people's thoughts/opinions on certain matters, could even implement the "arrest people before actually doing a crime but thinking about doing it" act


Offline Moraline

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2013, 09:36:04 AM »
I totally agree but I think we'll get more of a Shadowrun'esque experience long before that happens. First will be the Google Glass like always ONLINE experience then we'll get controlled minor physical sensations first via brain waves.

Besides, if we spent all our time living in fear of the possibilities then we'd never get anywhere technologically. Fear is best left as something for consideration and observation - not as a roadblock to progress.

Offline GarthMarenghi

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2013, 09:56:57 AM »
I totally agree but I think we'll get more of a Shadowrun'esque experience long before that happens. First will be the Google Glass like always ONLINE experience then we'll get controlled minor physical sensations first via brain waves.

Besides, if we spent all our time living in fear of the possibilities then we'd never get anywhere technologically. Fear is best left as something for consideration and observation - not as a roadblock to progress.

I agree that fear shouldn't hold us back from progression, there's even some people nowadays that dare not use a computer out of fear/lack of knowledge or a feeling of having all their information stolen.

But I think if we use the internet as a basis to how it will slowly evolve, then even the most careful of people have had viruses on their computers before if they've used it long enough, the thought of installing anti-virus scanners and malware detectors into my brain just doesn't put me at ease (especially since it would be my brain at risk and not just a computer).
Despite wanting to be able to have all the cool things that you mentioned it would have to be integrated very slowly and with constant safety checks in place in case it does end up like the internet. (Which has advanced so fast the laws can't keep up and all new laws that they propose are very bias in terms of giving certain groups large amounts of power that they shouldn't have).

Sorry if I'm being downer btw :/

Offline Florence

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2013, 01:57:56 PM »
I agree that fear shouldn't hold us back from progression, there's even some people nowadays that dare not use a computer out of fear/lack of knowledge or a feeling of having all their information stolen.

But I think if we use the internet as a basis to how it will slowly evolve, then even the most careful of people have had viruses on their computers before if they've used it long enough, the thought of installing anti-virus scanners and malware detectors into my brain just doesn't put me at ease (especially since it would be my brain at risk and not just a computer).
Despite wanting to be able to have all the cool things that you mentioned it would have to be integrated very slowly and with constant safety checks in place in case it does end up like the internet. (Which has advanced so fast the laws can't keep up and all new laws that they propose are very bias in terms of giving certain groups large amounts of power that they shouldn't have).

Sorry if I'm being downer btw :/

Well, I think an obvious solution would be to hardwire the system in a way that wouldn't allow programs downloaded off the internet to modify the functioning of the brain. Now if we're talking heavy human augmentations involving cybernetic eyes and limbs and whatnot, there COULD be a little problem with those parts being vulnerable to viruses. That said I would think its possible the again, hardwire them in a way that would prevent them from being able to be modified by an external program.

I mean, your microwave oven can't get a virus, even though modern microwave ovens do have very basic computers controlling their functionality, because they're not connected to the internet. Simply don't have parts that you don't want modified connected to the internet directly, don't let them be modified by external programs, and make sure there's a way to shut off the elements that are connected in case of an emergency. Then, worst case, someone hacks the computerized parts of your brain, maybe spams you with annoying sounds and visuals, which yes, would suck incredibly, but you do an emergency shut down get it repaired.

I'm not saying its a perfect system, and I'm certainly no expert, but the one inspiring thing about our species is the way that we've always managed to adapt to new circumstances, new political climates and new technologies.

Offline didoanna

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2013, 04:53:38 PM »
We are Borg, you will be assimilated.  Hive mind anyone?

Seriously though, the possibilities are endless. Transferring thoughts, memories... just damn anything. Who needs the internet when we can just plug our minds into a data jack and communicate via fibre to other brains all over the globe. That is some serious cyberpunk shit right there. So many scary and yet fantastic possibilities. I think my mind is melting at the concept.

*edit*
/palmface. Here I am thinking plug into a datajack.. so old school. We just do this shit via wifi/bluetooth now.

Bit like the concept behind the device in the film "Strange Days" from around '96 (I think) that can be used to record and then playback memories and feelings etc.

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2013, 06:04:24 PM »
Bit like the concept behind the device in the film "Strange Days" from around '96 (I think) that can be used to record and then playback memories and feelings etc.

Or 'Brainstorm' from 1983.

Offline NotoriusBEN

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2014, 08:38:53 AM »
Take a look at Eclipse Phase if you want an RPG look at some of this kind of stuff.

Transhumanism and close to posthuman stuff.

resleave your mind into genemodded bodies adapted for the situation. Olympian variants are suited for sports and high activity. Sylph variants are tailored to be attractive and pleasing. Mentons are geared for intellect and artistic endeavors. Heck, you could even download into a combat robot or into an uplifted octopus body. You could even 'fork' your mind. split out a copy of you to send and chat with a buddy on the other side of the solar system, then it comes back and remerges with you with all of its experiences, but be careful... if its been out and about too long it may not want to come back.

You. cannot. effectively. *die*. Just make sure to upload yourself every month at the backup server. Most genemod bodies have this thing called a cortical stack in the spine that keeps an up to the millisecond recording of your brain-life and memories. So unless your body is catastrophically destroyed or lost in space, they use that instead.

Offline MKz

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2014, 10:15:55 AM »
Umm.. You sure its not a hoax article..? My medical knowledge is around the one of a nurse, and this article sounds really unreasonable to me as there is a whole list of important problems with this procedure that the article didn't address. First of all - compatibility. Now lets say the body will not reject the head (a big problem as well), even then there is the issue of blood vessel locations- everyone has a differently located blood vessel system, even the main arteries are not in the same spots, how will you glue them all together so they will fit? and even if they do, the smaller blood vessels are important as well and if not glued correctly, can cause partial tissue death in different scales, and in the neck area that can mean crazy trouble. Then there is the problem of how to hold together the cut ligaments in the neck (all that assuming they can successfully cut off the head leaving the thyroid gland in tact). Those all are already problems that are very hard to handle but that's not even half of it. How do you keep the brain, and the body alive during such a long and complicated procedure? How you keep the organs alive and functioning after it? you may keep the heart and lungs working with machines but it will do no good unless the brain will take control eventually and that brings us to the most impossible problem- gluing the spine nerves together. If this one is not answered, then even if the surgery is a complete success, the patient will have to be on life support for the rest of his/her life. now remember how i told you blood vessels are not located in the same sports? Then imagine how much more complicated it is to glue two different spine cords together. There was an accident where they fixed an ALMOST dismembered kid's head back and that was already considered a miracle and the spinal cord and arteries had not been damaged . Now if fixing a damaged spinal cord on the same person is extremely hard if not impossible, do i really need to go into how impossible it would be to attach parts of different spinal cords and make them work (well at least with the technology we have today? The hormonal gap may also be a problem..

Offline Oniya

Re: Transplanting the human head/brain
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2014, 10:18:25 AM »
As I said in the second post of the thread, I was surprised to find an actual journal citation for it - but there is one.