Minimum Wage Jobs (was Things that make you feel negative)

[Top Cat]

I'm going to try to avoid snarling at the OP for what I perceive as a fundamental lack of empathy for those who helped create and shape the world he lives in today. Rather than that, I'd like to point out that the world ~60 years ago is vastly different from the world we know today. (I'm using 60 years as the ballpark, guessing at the OP's age and the ages of his parents and grandparents).

60 years ago was the late 1950's. Let's take a look at some of the huge differences from then and now.

• Computers didn't exist, for all practical purposes. This seems obvious and unimportant, until you realize all of the ramifications that follow.
• The United States - no, the majority of the world - had only recently gotten out of some of the worst wars ever known; many people's lives weren't about improving themselves, but repairing the damage in Europe and elsewhere.
• The only music options available were buying expensive LP vinyl records, or listening to the radio, with far fewer channels (and far less variety between them) than today.
• Writing to a family member in another state required actually writing, with pen or pencil on paper, the letter. Again, there were no computers, no faxes, no email, no text messages. And these letters only cost a few pennies to mail - but a few pennies, in that day and age, was close to being the equivalent of a dollar today. Imagine, if you will, if you had to pay a buck for every email, every text message.
• Similarly, attempting to call someone who lived more than 20 miles away was expensive - expensive enough that it was impractical for anything but emergencies. Writing letters made more sense.
• Commuter airplanes were still relatively new, rare, and expensive. Visiting relatives who lived across the country was difficult and expensive if not outright impossible for most folks. Driving long distances was viewed as only a desperate measure, thanks to low (compared to today) fuel economies in cars and low (compared to today) reliability for the engine and parts. Going from New York to California was likely to have several stops for repairs, for example. Political people like Martin Luther King Jr. were able to get around the country thanks to large amounts of support and money from others - support that the average citizen simply didn't have.
• Televisions were expensive, and the concept of reruns didn't even exist yet. You either needed to be in front of the television when a given show was on, or just miss it. Forget the idea of synopses or spoilers, they didn't exist either. See the movie Back to the Future for a brief example of this, dressed up as a minute of comic-relief.
• Our media was heavily doctored and colored, driving for a fear of Russia and other countries. Following the horrors of World War II, many people had a firm belief that it was only a matter of time before the United States became the next target of the next Hitler-like villain, with the commonly-painted bad guys being Russia. Bomb shelters were sold to people who could afford them, and they sold well.
• Going to college was something only the best high-school students did; it wasn't available for anyone who wanted to learn. At that time, you had to prove ahead of time that you were capable of brilliance, OR have large sums of money thrown at the colleges, to get you in. High school graduation was the standard, a goal of competence for many.

I could go on for another hour or so of illustrating just how fundamentally different the world was for our grandparents. For the average person, being able to support and raise a family was the pinnacle of achievement. That your grandparents raised some relatively solid parents, who in turn raised you, is an accomplishment worth being proud of. Don't look so much at the stars they never achieved... take pride in the paving they built, to bring you into the world.

[KatKwik]

I read the OP and sat here thinking about how to reply.

I think there is clearly a lack of empathy for your family and their history, but that's something you need to deal with and as you clearly stated it was a rant.

Unfortunately that rant brought to light a lot of negativity from the rest of us as we have strong beliefs on what we consider to be valuable in life.

Family to me is important and irrespective of what they did or didn't do. I was brought up to not judge others and to accept that people are different. I came from a middle class family that lost everything. While my family have not according to you achieved anything, taught me a few life lessons. That one does not accept your lot and blame the past for your own failings. You take that, learn from it and make your own way, moving forward.

I  am the risk taker in the family, the trailblazer and yet I know that I would not have been that if I had not had the encouragement from a family with limited resources and the drive to work hard so that I could do well. So I am grateful for their 'failing' because it was how we learnt to be better and each of us has grown stronger. We have left a mark for the next generation to follow. So what may have started as a chicken scratch has grown into a blazing trail. The one thing that has kept us together has been the deep connection we have as a family.

It costs nothing in this world to love and whether others see that as a weakness then so be it. We are a family and that is all that matters. We stand together and help and support each other when times are hard. We do this without question, without asking and never expect anything in return.

While I have remained the outcast, the rebel, I know that I will always have a home and that without a doubt there will be acceptance.

I do apologise if I offend anyone here, that is not my intention. I just wanted to add my opinion. 

[Mathim]

This reminds me of something from my high school days. My best friend, I won't name him but he was a hispanic chap who lived in the 'ghetto' of my hometown and I got to know his family really well. His parents were immigrants and in fact his mother was a migrant worker. I often wondered about how he felt about these kinds of things, where everyone in the family, regardless of age, had to work really hard, sometimes at multiple jobs, just to keep afloat. He wasn't ashamed of it but didn't seem to have any higher aspirations than they did to come up out of that. He dropped out of college after one semester, I never really understood why, but I can't help wondering if that self-fulfilling prophecy had anything to do with it, or if he really just wasn't as smart as I believed he was.

It really is just a matter of personal opinion. Some people just had bad circumstances they couldn't get out from under and if that affects their children, it's up to that generation to decide if they're going to wallow in blaming their families or take their example of working their ass off and make something better than the previous generation managed. Does this mean the previous generation is a waste of space? Of course not. They laid the foundation for the choice and freedom the current generation enjoys. In fact that kind of example can inspire someone to excel if only so they can avoid poverty and such in their own future.

I lost contact with my pal quite a while ago but last I had heard, he was still doing menial, minimum-wage type jobs. Do I respect him less for it? Absolutely not. He's my friend, always will be, and whatever he makes of his life, it's up to him. What makes him happy? I'm not a mind reader but I have the feeling he's more content not having huge responsibilities, including raising a family (he always claimed to like being a loner) or being in a high-up position type of job. Criticizing him for this just feels like it would be wrong. Could he be doing more? Of course, but that's true of just about anybody. But it's our life to live and if I choose to be a schoolteacher instead of a doctor even though I have the potential to do the latter, I won't stand for someone telling me something like I should have done that instead. It isn't something that would make me happy or that I would have wanted to spend so much time doing. Granted that's somewhat of a larger-scale situation but it's still comparable. I'd have no right to talk badly about my friend or others like him since I want to enjoy the freedom to do with my life what I want as well.

[Sho]

I would have to ask…how much have you done? How much have you changed? Have you raised a family and kept food on the table and provided a home for them?

If you have, then…well, that's fabulous for you, but you need to keep in mind that not everyone can.

There are plenty of people who take a job so that they can have a comfortable life and that is their priority. It sounds to me like you're pushing your priorities onto your grandfather without taking into account that his priorities may have been very different from your own. That doesn't make him a bad person. Maybe he didn't teach his daughter about all the things going on because they may not have been affecting him directly and his priority was making sure there was a roof over their head, food on the table, and a little money for small pleasures like bingo. That's not a terrible ambition.

The only thing I can say, honestly, is that you obviously prioritize certain things, so rather than judging people for not thinking the same way you do, you should just go out and do those things yourself. Try to keep in mind that it can be hard for people to break out of the socio-economic strata they were raised in. Just…really, just show some respect. You are where you are because your grandfather raised your mother and she in turn raised you. During your grandfather's time a factory job was perfectly respectable, and Sartre wasn't a priority whatsoever.

Frankly, this necessity to know everything and have higher degrees are fairly modern concepts. IMO, your grandfather did what he needed to do, which was provide for his family. If you want different things then it's your responsibility to provide them for yourself, but you shouldn't look down on people who are content with a simple, non-political life.

[AmberStarfire]

I notice DTW is listed as suspended. I wonder if this means he won't read the further posts now?

[Avis habilis]

That's correct. This discussion seems to have been accidentally necro'd.

[Mikem]

...

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings. So here's my opinion on his feelings. They're horrible.

Wow, just reading each sentence of that rant pissed me off in varying degrees. Good lord I need something uplifting now. Like a kitten.

[Oniya]

As today is laundry day, I leave you with this:



Also a fair representation of what my cat is doing right now.  XD

[itsbeenfun2000]

I know OP has been suspended but if he gets back on I hope he reads some of these posts.

My father was a high school drop out and tool and dye maker. He left school to help out his parents during the depression. Most people that were children during the second world war were brought up that having a factory job was what one strived for if they didn't have the education to go to college. I look back at my father and his sacrifice to make ends meet for his parents. He was a blue collar worker that learned a trade, brought up a family of five and loved his wife and kids. He also encouraged his kids to do different things depending on their traits. Two sons and a daughter that are blue collar, one son and a daughter who are white collar.

My point is that perhaps his grandfather did exactly that. He encouraged his daughter to work in a factory when she said she wanted to. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have encouraged her to go to school if she wanted to. The fact that during that time he wanted her to work is commendable most people believed that women should stay at home and raise a family. Most college educated women at that time became teachers for the most part or found a husband. At the time that was great. In today's standards its seems sad they didn't have more opportunities. That doesn't make the people back then bad for not thinking otherwise.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to work in a factory, construction, the trades, military or go to college it is a personal choice that most parents understand and encourage. I teach and I don't care what my students do after they graduate as long as they become tax paying citizens and don't become a problem for society. They all have their lives and each of them define happy in their own way. I expect them to learn a good work ethic and not to close doors so after they are done with high school they can have that choice.

[Mikem]

I'll provide a little relevant story.

I'm a twenty two year old male in the land of opportunity. I've been out of Highschool for four years now, and I have just under eight months of actual work experience so far. Yes. Eight months out of four years I was capable of holding a full time job. And those eight months was only a part time job in retail. I've never been to College, and quite frankly I don't want to enroll. I have no idea what I'd major in and I'd rather not place myself in a world of debt. I graduated High School with a 1.7GPA. I failed three math courses in a row during school. I live with my unemployed mother in my deceased grandparents house living day to day, seeing that a potential employer passed me up for someone else, or just realize that they'll never call back to bother. I have no real world talents that can transfer into a tangible career, I have no hobbies that can make me a little money on the side. All I have is a dream or two that I may never even see realized. Right now I'm a strain on society. I'm giving nothing back. All I am is a mouth to feed and a body to house. Do I feel worthless sometimes? Yeah. Do I sometimes stumble and feel that it'd be better if I just didn't exist? Yes. But I NEVER, not even ONCE think lowly of people in my position or worse. I NEVER look at someone who hasn't gone to College or strived for something bigger and better and go, "well what good are you then?".

There are ALL walks of life, and some of them force people to struggle, or just live very simple lives. But that doesn't give the OP, or anyone else the right to belittle those who aren't Supermen for society.

[AmberStarfire]

A trade might be useful to learn? It wouldn't cost as much as going to university and there is more potential to make money in many cases. You also might find it helps your overall outlook and would give you some work experience if you volunteered or took an internship. I know it's not great to work for nothing, but it could help flesh out your cv, show people you're dedicated to doing something/helping others and it is one way to give back. It might lead to other opportunities. Sometimes if you don't have the opportunities you need to create them or find other ways to go about getting them.

You might also be able to find some free training options there. I don't know about the states really, the government runs free training courses here. I've taken several of them before here and personally, I found them brilliant. Employers don't need a whole lot of study sometimes but they like to see education and experience. I think if you got more of each, it may help you toward your goal. You don't need a course to study something indepth. Pick a subject, delve into it and learn. If you're good at something and know it well, over time you will find that opportunities might arise in one way or another.

Anyway I just wanted to give some advice. The way I see it, if anyone is going to judge someone for making their own choices and working regular jobs to look after their family and put food on the table, then their opinions don't really matter.

[Oniya]

I'd also suggest looking online to see if you can find a subject that sparks you.  Khan Academy is a marvelous source of free learning (the little Oni is learning computer programming!), and YouTube has an entire section of college-level lectures available.  No credits that I know of, but it's a way of getting a sense of what your passions might be without the outlay.

[Valthazar]

I have no real world talents that can transfer into a tangible career, I have no hobbies that can make me a little money on the side.

Like Oniya said, it is very easy to learn marketable skills online, all for free.  For example, right now, I am learning basic Spanish (using the internet and a $6 used textbook I bought) and some basic coding online.  Another one of my friends is learning all the advanced features of 3D animation (Poser/Zbrush) and Photoshop online.  Even if you don't have these types of software, there is a lot of similar open source software out there.

Just try to figure out what some skills you would be interested in learning, and you'll surely find free resources online.  These will look great on a resume.

[itsbeenfun2000]

I am going to echo what Amber said. Volunteering can lead to opportunities. It does shoe employers that you are willing to do something that helps other people and society. Also most major cities or large suburbs of major cities have a job center. Once you have volunteered for a bit visiting one would be a good idea.

Good luck in what ever you decide. Find a niche and stick with it.

[TaintedAndDelish]

Some folks measure their own self worth and the worth of others with things like status, wealth, looks and accomplishments. They are free to do that. We however, do not need to apply those standards to ourselves. We are free to define self worth and success as we wish and to find our own personal path to achieving these goals.

[Rick345]

What you said about your grandfather, mother, and the rest of your ancestry is what politicians do, they knock what someone else does because they are too lazy to actually come up with a solution to a problem. The easiest thing in the world is to knock someone down.. I think your disdain for your family probably comes from your mother’s attempt to motivate you to get an education and become something so your life is a little easier than her’s and her father’s.

I’m guessing she said things like, “DTW your a smart kid don’t end in a dead end job like me, your grandfather worked his ass off for years, all he did was work, work, work and more work and all it got him was an early grave. Get some education make something of yourself be a doctor and lawyer do something so you don’t have to work at a shitty job till it kills you.”

I’ll also guess your a teenager, that’s usually the only time in a persons life when they have the luxury to a protest, to freely disagree with those in power at any level of authority, and when problems seem to have easy solutions. You have that freedom because of your mother makes sure you are feed and clothed. You have the luxury of not worrying that your boss might see your picture in the paper protesting a chemical spill, a chemical spill the company you work for was responsible for, and tomorrow you will be called into the office and he’ll say “Sorry DTW we have to let you go..”, and then tell security to escort you to the front gate.

During the Vietnam War and the protest movements that sprang for it: War protests of course, and the civil rights movement. Those who protested that war were often those who were of draft age and yet not old enough to vote. They didn’t know why they should go 10,000 miles away to fight and die for someone else’s right to vote when they didn’t have that same right here at home. Also many people who fought in Vietnam were the son’s and daughters of WWII veterans and were seriously worried about communist aggression and supported the military efforts in Vietnam, at least at first.

From the sounds of your rant your grandfather wasn’t a teenager and already had a job and family to worry about. We have the blessing of 20/20 hindsight when it comes to Vietnam. Maybe your grandfather agreed with the war many people did at first just like many of us agreed with GW Bush’s invasion of Iraq at least in the beginning, we bought into the nation that Saddam was connected to 9/11 and he had weapons of mass destruction and if he wasn’t stopped we’d wake up one morning with a mushroom cloud raising from the heart of our cities.

The Civil Rights movement was a direct result of the war in Vietnam. In King’s Dream speech he says,  “We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote.”, when black men were fighting in Vietnam in disproportionate numbers yet weren’t allowed to vote or had nothing worth voting for he civil rights movement was born. If you haven’t done so read King’s, “Letter from the Birmingham Jail.”

To clarify my point most of us then and now need our jobs, so we don’t rock the boat. Call us cowards maybe we are but, most of us need the mere pennies our shitty job pays or we and our children won’t eat... Its that simple. I know plenty of single moms that leave their Wal-Mart jobs to go work the evening shift at McDonald’s. Or men that are school teachers and work part time at Wal-Mart. We suck it up, we put on our smile masks march in the workplace like their is no where else in the world we’d rather be and do our jobs hating every minute of it because people we love count on us and can’t let them down. We go home and fix dinner and sit down, make sure you’ve done your homework, and for just a minute or two watch the news and we are so bone tired we fall asleep with a dinner plate in our laps and half a sandwich hanging out of our mouths. When we wake up at midnight we wash the dishes, throw a load of laundry in the washer, fold the clothing we left in the dryer the night before and take a shower and hit the bed. Close our eyes for a couple of hours and are woken by the alarm... Get up and pack lunches for your brother and sisters, wake them up and get them ready for the bus... Then throw on our work clothes, put on our smile masks and do it all over again... Day after day, week after week, year after year... When do we have time to protest, when do we have time to write a book, create the Mona Lisa, or compose “Hey Jude”, or “Yesterday”, when do we have time? When?

That’s the life most people live and that’s the life your mother and grandfather probably lived... That’s the life most of us live.

Even though I don’t even know you I’ll write a little rant about you just to show you how easy it is... Please keep in mind that my rant is completely fictional, its merely an attempt to show you how silly and insulting your rank sounds to most of us...


DTW I was at the book store yesterday and you could have knocked me down with a feather I didn’t see your bestseller... Oh wait I read your rant and know you couldn’t possible have written a book because you are obviously too damn lazy to open a dictionary...

You belittled your grandfather because he didn’t protest the Vietnam War, so why are we still fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan why haven’t you stopped them. I’m absolutely sure you have written countless letters to the president eloquently explaining explaining your plan to bring the Shiites and Sunnies into peaceful co-existence... I hope they spell your name right on your Noble Peace Prize... Why haven’t you stopped these wars the longest in American history. Why haven’t you stopped them why?

If that’s beyond your abilities than why don’t you take the easy route and go down to your local enlistment office and sign up to put on a uniform. When you’re over in the sandbox maybe then at least the poor bastard who is on his fifth tour of duty can come home and see his six month old son he’s never laid eyes on. Or maybe it will allow the mother who was deployed thirty days after her daughter was born a chance to hold her baby again... Before the Blackhawk she pilots gets hit by a RPG...

Why haven’t you fixed Obamacare, I think it was a good idea but, my God what a cluster fuck it has become... Affordable Heath Care, what’s affordable about it? Certainly you have a solution and I’m sure if Congress even gets off their endless recess your solution is the first thing they’ll pass. Wait what happened to your letter to Obama so compellingly outlining you health insurance fixes, he will rush right out and do them, go ahead tell’m just go the signing statement route convince him your fixes will work...  Oh wait you haven’t wrote Obama, you haven’t wrote Congress you don’t even have a clue on how to fix health care because you’re too busy doing important work like bitching about your long dead Grandpa...

You haven’t wrote a bestseller, you haven’t stopped the wars, you haven’t fixed healthcare you are a waste of the oxygen you breathe... I hope my fictitious rant sounds as stupid as I mean it to sound. Because to many of us your rant sounds just as ridiculous and insulting. Do like your Mama says and go to school she worked too hard for you to pass up that opportunity.

[Caehlim]

[Blythe]

As the OP cannot currently respond to posts made in his thread, this topic will be locked.