Council of Wyrms: 3.5 DnD Classic Game

[Zaer Darkwail]

Those unaware Council of Wyrms is published set for 2th DnD setting. You can find PDF of the book via google (I read one but for E's rules cannot link to it directly, so use your own google-fu powers  ;)). Anyways I change the setting to 3.5 edition but follow same premise and generic theme; players playing dragons and dragon kindred (people psychic bonded to dragon PC's) or half-dragon which struggles find place in society where it does not belong amongst non-dragons nor dragon alike.

All players would start as freshly hatched wyrmlings of their chosen dragons, we roleplay bit their time while raised in dragon eguivalent of 'school' for wyrmlings until they hit young/juvenile age where they get choose either stay in school (and continue work for Council itself) or go return back to their respective clans home dominions and then climb social ladder in each clan. On hitting this age they are first time bonded with dragon kindred (a non-dragon humanoid who serves both as mentor/trusted servant for them) who players play whenever a adventure calls more non-dragon presence (or simply person with specific set of skills as dragons usually do not have class features like turn undead :P).

Overall though players should not grow attached to dragon kindred chars as after one or two age categories dragon kindred 'retires' or dies old age. Then new dragon kindred enters and forms bond. So overall dragon char remains important across the immense life span of dragons. Where as half-dragon is somewhat between dragon and dragon kindred roles; they live immensely long (thanks dragon heritage) and even if their outcaste their tolerate in society enough to work in Council of Wyrms and benefit of the draconic nations. Overall party composition is that it may have just dragon kindred, dragons or mixture of both in given adventure. The years will be escalated to go quickly but also demands planning in regards what dragon PC does over during said time frame (what their long term or short term goals are is very important). Anyways here below comes char gen stuff.


Stats: Pre-determined for every dragon based on type, every 4th HD gives dragon PC's +1 to any single stat of their choice (dragon kindred/half-dragons get 32pts point buy with every 4th level giving +1 to two stats instead of one).
Starting level: Wyrmlings are CR 3 creatures and have stats/features usual for that age, half-dragons start in 5th level (alongside the dragons), when dragon kindred come available they are 5th level chars with 5th level starting wealth. Instead advancing on age dragons can choose gain levels instead (but this process will delay their age ascension a bit).
Feats: Every odd level you gain feat (like in pathfinder). Dragons gain feat every odd HD and dragon PC's can choose freely their feats.
Accepted races for half-dragons/dragon kindred: Gnomes, Dwarves, Elves (even drow), Halflings, Half-Orcs/Orcs, Kobolds, Hobgoblin (plus any variants of these from Dragon Magic, even if wild/barbaric humans do live in islands where dragons dwell, they are viewed as hostile pests by most dragons and thus never considered for dragon kindred).
Accepted sources: Most 3.5 material is open, including psionics for gem dragons. As note dragon magic is well adviced supplement to study on for ideas and for dragon racial variants. While draconomicon offers lot feat and PrC choices for dragons.
Homebrew: Check in here (skip char generation entirely). It haves important changes to core classes (figther no longer excists example) and changes to some PrC's and some other features as well.

Important thing for every dragon is what clan their from; every dragon type has minimum 5 clans which to come from and the Council of Wyrms explains every clan some detail (but it's encouraged for PC come up with their own clan profile but is adviced they read some clan profiles to learn understand some clan structures). So far one younger clans is Sunflare, a 300 year old gold dragon which is just a young adult example. I may later write full list of all clans in here for perusal but I want get this recruit thread opened up first to see how much interest this garners from players (I know so far one hard core fan who wants play this :P).

[PaleEnchantress]

Interest marker, The Enchantress has claimed this space and will fill it too

[Chulanowa]

Okay, I've always been curious about this module since I first played D&D (literally, my first game, someone was playing a half-dragon from it.) and while I would kinda prefer to give it a first shot in 2nd edition rules, just for Old Timey nostalgia, 3.5 is smooth enough. Though, question... Do we just pick a flavor of Wyrmling from the monster manual and play it as-statted? if so how do character classes work? In short... how do?

Also, is it possible to run both a dragon and a Kindred? 'Cause y'see I've got this kobold I've been wanting to play... i guess TECHNICALLY I could take the dragonwrought feat and just keep going with the dragons forever-and-ever...

[Karasu]

I'd certainly like to join, cause Dragons are really good!

[Muse]

*pounces!* 

May I play? 

Please, please, please?  :) 

[Kimera]

Interested ^^

[ThisOneGal]

Ooh, this sounds cool~

Color me intrigued.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Also, is it possible to run both a dragon and a Kindred? 'Cause y'see I've got this kobold I've been wanting to play... i guess TECHNICALLY I could take the dragonwrought feat and just keep going with the dragons forever-and-ever...

Well, point of the game is that you create dragon char and dragon kindred. Or just play plain half-dragon entire time (caveat with half-dragon is the flavor and the fact they are +4 CR ahead with their template and +2 more class levels than everyone else). Also with kobold you can indeed as dragonwrought be dragon kindred to single dragon for entire time (without needing change dragon kindred in-between as most other races do).

Idea I am having that players create dragon kindred and they swear wealthy to each other PC's dragons (than just their own dragon chars) so there can be actual RP interaction between dragon and it's dragon kindred while their adventuring together. Overall the class levels of dragon kindred and their dragons are matched as same so their relatively 'same power level' that way.

It's nice hear lots interest for this game :). Anyways with dragons you just pick one from monster manual as idea on Council of Wyrms is that Metallic, Gem and Chromatic dragons live together in same lands relatively peacefully (not that there is no clashes, as that for trial of talon and wing excist for; simply right declare duel to settle matter between dragons in non-killing blow landed combat). So do not feel restricted on dragon types and also you can act against alignment of specific dragon kind (usually dragons who do not match alignment of set species become rogue dragons).

The Council of Wyrms PDF is warmly recommended on reading the full story but I will update pieces of it in future (like list of clans and bit details on them) or other aspects of life in the Council of Wyrms island network which is cut three parts based on climate.

[Kimera]

Is it also possible for one player to only play a dragon, and one other playing as the first's dragon kindred? Sort of for those who don't want to juggle two characters at the same time?

[Zaer Darkwail]

It's optional yes, but it means those who want play dragon kindred would need sit for long while as others play their dragons adolescent years in the dragon eguivalent of pre-school/kindergarden :P.

[Kimera]

It's optional yes, but it means those who want play dragon kindred would need sit for long while as others play their dragons adolescent years in the dragon eguivalent of pre-school/kindergarden :P.

Oh right, I suppose that's true.

Are the other dragons from draconomicon allowed (fang dragon etc...)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yes, other dragon species other than metal, gem or chromatic are allowed (even incarnum), however in grand scale things those dragon species are minority and likely need develop a clan somekind in the isles (and clan would be by default be small in size).

[Chulanowa]

Okay, so, is there any way to customize a dragon PC? Like if I wanted to play a white dragon, is there some way to make it at least smarter than an irish setter? Int 6, how do you even...

And they progress basically just like a PC, taking levels either in "Dragon age category" or a PC class?

[PaleEnchantress]

I'd really like to play a Hex dragon. It also would be great to have someone else play my Kindred

[Kimera]

I'd really like to play a Hex dragon. It also would be great to have someone else play my Kindred

What's a hex dragon? Also what would you have in mind for the kindred?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Okay, so, is there any way to customize a dragon PC? Like if I wanted to play a white dragon, is there some way to make it at least smarter than an irish setter? Int 6, how do you even...

And they progress basically just like a PC, taking levels either in "Dragon age category" or a PC class?

Your customization options as dragon PC are; use default stats of each dragon, but add +1 to any stat per 4 HD you got (so yes, you can play smarter than Int 6 white dragon but it needs to get 16 HD before it rises to 10 example to happen). Also you get feat at every odd HD you got. Besides the progress to next age stage you could had earned few class levels (but it will delay then bit on entering 'dragon sleep' mode where you advance age category).

[PaleEnchantress]

Your customization options as dragon PC are; use default stats of each dragon, but add +1 to any stat per 4 HD you got (so yes, you can play smarter than Int 6 white dragon but it needs to get 16 HD before it rises to 10 example to happen). Also you get feat at every odd HD you got. Besides the progress to next age stage you could had earned few class levels (but it will delay then bit on entering 'dragon sleep' mode where you advance age category).

How about, since we arent doing anything but RPing or wyrmling stage you let her white dragon have the int she'd have when we leave the aerie for our own.  I believe the Campaign doesn't give us independence until Juvenile stage. So let her start with int 8 that just stays 8 when she advances to Juvenile.

However as an other point she's playing the weakest of all dragonkind. We can just buff her with 2-4 more int inherently. Why punish her for choosing a white dragon and not choosing gold "because it had the best stats"?

[Kimera]

How about, since we arent doing anything but RPing or wyrmling stage you let her white dragon have the int she'd have when we leave the aerie for our own.  I believe the Campaign doesn't give us independence until Juvenile stage. So let her start with int 8 that just stays 8 when she advances to Juvenile.

However as an other point she's playing the weakest of all dragonkind. We can just buff her with 2-4 more int inherently. Why punish her for choosing a white dragon and not choosing gold "because it had the best stats"?

Well, red and gold dragon wyrmlings are CR 4 and 5, so technically, by Zaer's char rules, you couldn't pick those anyways

[PaleEnchantress]

What's a hex dragon? Also what would you have in mind for the kindred?

Hex dragon is from a rare dragon type "The Arcane Dragons" who are much more magic based then other dragons but much physically weaker also. They come in two types, Hex dragon, and Tome Dragon. Their sorcerer levels progress faster then other dragon and they know a few extra spells over a normal sorcerer. They are more graceful fliers too, but they are slower, smaller, and less able to survive in physical combat than other true dragons.

The Hex dragon specializes in necromancy and enchantments. It's signature ability is anything that harms it is cursed the curse gets more powerful as the dragon ages. Starting with making them sickened for 1d4 rounds at wyrmling to completely obliterating them as a sphere of annihilation at max age category.  The hex dragons breath weapon is a very deadly poison.

The Tome dragon is an even better sorcerer than the Hex dragon, having improved use of metamagic (sort of their signature trait vs the hex dragons curse). Their breath weapon is weak damage wise but it's like a fireball in that its very long range and is a radius burst. They also can chose what element to make their breath weapon when they use it including nonleathal and sonic. Still, not a lot of damage. They specialize in conjuration and divination magic. I may decide to play one of these instead, hard choice between the two.

Finally what would I expect from a bound Kindred? What do I usually expect from such a person?  Undying devotion, being a super sexy guy, practically no limitations on what sort of physical and emotional abuse they will stand (and even feel honored for receiving such abuse). Would be the bare minimum.  - You might even decide to be more then one persons Kindred. I thought of my kindred actually coming from a family that specialized in producing strong devoted kindred to the amoral (or downright evil) Arcane dragons.  There are very few Arcane dragons but for generations your/my kindred's family has been spilling their own blood in their name.  Just a thought so far.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, red and gold dragon wyrmlings are CR 4 and 5, so technically, by Zaer's char rules, you couldn't pick those anyways

Need adjust the char gen rules to accomodate those as well as original council of wyrms module indicates you can play any wyrmling (I just quick check saw most wyrmlings are CR 3).

[Kimera]

Need adjust the char gen rules to accomodate those as well as original council of wyrms module indicates you can play any wyrmling (I just quick check saw most wyrmlings are CR 3).

Well you could fix it by giving the CR 3 wyrmlings an extra HD to buff them to CR 4 (or everything to CR 5 to be on equal side with gold)

Hex dragon is from a rare dragon type "The Arcane Dragons" who are much more magic based then other dragons but much physically weaker also. They come in two types, Hex dragon, and Tome Dragon. Their sorcerer levels progress faster then other dragon and they know a few extra spells over a normal sorcerer. They are more graceful fliers too, but they are slower, smaller, and less able to survive in physical combat than other true dragons.

The Hex dragon specializes in necromancy and enchantments. It's signature ability is anything that harms it is cursed the curse gets more powerful as the dragon ages. Starting with making them sickened for 1d4 rounds at wyrmling to completely obliterating them as a sphere of annihilation at max age category.  The hex dragons breath weapon is a very deadly poison.

The Tome dragon is an even better sorcerer than the Hex dragon, having improved use of metamagic (sort of their signature trait vs the hex dragons curse). Their breath weapon is weak damage wise but it's like a fireball in that its very long range and is a radius burst. They also can chose what element to make their breath weapon when they use it including nonleathal and sonic. Still, not a lot of damage. They specialize in conjuration and divination magic. I may decide to play one of these instead, hard choice between the two.

Finally what would I expect from a bound Kindred? What do I usually expect from such a person?  Undying devotion, being a super sexy guy, practically no limitations on what sort of physical and emotional abuse they will stand (and even feel honored for receiving such abuse). Would be the bare minimum.  - You might even decide to be more then one persons Kindred. I thought of my kindred actually coming from a family that specialized in producing strong devoted kindred to the amoral (or downright evil) Arcane dragons.  There are very few Arcane dragons but for generations your/my kindred's family has been spilling their own blood in their name.  Just a thought so far.

I see

Well I'm still considering if I want to play a dragon at this point.

[PaleEnchantress]

I'm reading the council of Wyrms module and most of the clans are not explained. Is that how it is, or do you have information on them all?  I'm guessing most of them have no definition to you either. So you'd like us to design our own court if none of the predesigned ones fit us.  I'm looking at Jadress and thinking to maybe take a bit of inspiration from Suramar City.


My other idea is using an other green dragon court and making it similar to the nation of Gulg from the Dark Sun setting.  With a sort of "God Queen" green dragon sorceress at the center of power with a horrifying power to make her magic stronger by sucking the life out of all living things around her and even the land itself. Thats how she originally attained her power, by consuming most of her followers and the entire ecosystem of the island she inhabits in a huge flood of arcane power which elevated her greatly.  For a long time she ruled a wasteland, but now everything is far more verdant and full of life and beauty then ever before. The slave caste has few rights if any, but the free humanoids live a fairly good life with all their food and needs provided free by the land itself.  The dragons do even better, many would describe the God-Queen as a "Benevolent Tyrant" her control is absolute, but much loved by her people who know how good they have it.

Of course potential enemies and the Council of Wyrms see something far more insidious. At the very least her lush paradise serves as an exceptional defense system against any other court who would try to invade. Not only does the land itself obey her but she could consume the massive amount of life energy available to obliterate any court dumb enough to assault her kingdom. The Council of Wyrms knows that is a cruel but ultimately clever idea. They have outlawed her "defiling"magic for any purpose other then handling attacks from others.

What her peers in the council truly worry about is not that it's a defense system, but the preparations for another terrible ritual hidden in plain sight.  She became one of the most powerful dragon sorceresses among the islands the first time she defiled everything. Just how much would she surpass the Council of Wyrms if she did it again, and could they act fast enough to stop her? Consequently they look for signs she might be attempting such a thing, but have yet to find any evidence that her paradise is anything more then what it seems.

[Muse]

So, do we actualy build Kindred yet?  Or wait 'til after teh Wyrmling module? 

[ThisOneGal]

Hmm. Was toying around with dragon ideas. I always found the Lunar Dragons from Dragonmech interesting. Curious as to what your thoughts on me playing one were.

Rough sketch of what I had in mind was: Clan is from a collection of Dragons (and possibly other lunar creatures) that fell down from the moon, along with a couple chunks of moon. Moon chunks float and move around under their own power because a) wandering flying islands are cool and b) wandering flying islands wandering around a collection of volatile, balkanized states is interesting. Collections of fallen moon islands group up, split up, and occasionally sink, crash, unsink, or more fall from the sky. So far, very few of them have fallen, and the lunar arrivals remain an interesting curiosity, while the lesser lunar creatures that fall to earth wander around erecting temples to blasphemous alien gods.

I'd be playing a Lunar Wrymling and its Skinstealer Kindred. Can always tweak the Lunar Dragon stats to make it more in line with the general campaign power level. Although I do want to keep the 'Lunars are bigger and nastier then True Dragons' thing, cause I've never actually RP'd a brute before. I also wanna keep the 'lunar breath overcomes all non-blanket energy resistance/immunity' and 'lunar creatures are resistant to all conventional energy types and mental attacks' (ditch the 'Earth Vulnerability' cause I can't really tell WTF earth type magic is, and I prefer simple). I like the idea of the dragon just being... anathema to everything. Would definitely want to keep the general physical look of Lunar Dragons. Can ditch the random rampaging, since that doesn't really play well into a political game, but we can transfer that over to the Lunar isles; the rocks float around, dropping lunar creatures and dust everywhere, having more or less the same effect as a rampaging dragon, but slower.

I don't really want 'my character' to be just straight up better though, so some balancing factors would be; clumsiness, small/weak/divided clan (Lunar Dragons may or may not have got along on the moon; they may onyl be working together here because they're isolated. Or maybe they're planning on blowing up the world. Who knows), and... ? I dunno. Weaker magic, maybe? I hate the Vancian magic system (and even DnD magic in general. Psionics kinda makes sense mechanically, since its just videogame mana pools), so weaker magic kinda works, I guess. Being terrifying in close combat and having a breath weapon that shred everything, but not being good at the subtleties of magic kinda emphasizes the brute/barbarian aspect as well, I guess.

Skinstealer Kindred provides a nice contrast with the Dragon. The Dragon is a brute, the Kindred is all social. The kindred relationship is less strong than others (another sign of the alien-ness of the Lunar Dragons); the Skinstealer itself lacks a unique ego, and can be discarded and replaced with ease. The same is true of the Skinstealer's host. If we're going for a more smutty game we can make them.. sort of flat tentacle monsters, but if its a less smutty one we can emphasize their inherent creepiness. The (apparent) callous disregard for its kindred allows for creeping out Dragons as well.

As for why a Lunar is in whatever... 'school'/academy/creche the other PCs are in... I dunno. An attempt to understand/study the Lunars? A diplomatic overture on behalf of one group (honest and well meaning or duplicitous, or both)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragonMech
https://sli.mg/a/IMMbUN (Lunar Dragon and Skinstealer stats)

Other exotic dragons I found interesting were Force and Adamantite, but they have ludicrously OP stats. xD (Seriously, CR13 wyrmlings)

Anyway, it's all ideas at this point. Let me know what you think.

[Muse]

*Chuckles* Is everyone doing such exotic dragons that I shouldn't feel greedy playing a gold?