Heirs to Creation - Exalted 3e Recruitment and Pre-Game Discussion [CLOSED]

[HairyHeretic]

That's probably reasonable - though it should be noted that only a few spirits are willing to speak to him at this stage - the Immaculate Order comes and beats up on them if they accept worship, and shatters any cults they might get praying to them. It'd be an uphill battle, definitely.

It doesn't necessarily need to be worship, but even spirits have things they need, things they can't do for themselves. It's all about finding that spot where each party has something the other wants.

As for Nexus, though, it's about 3000 miles/5000 km away, which is approximately 1000 km short of the Silk Road. Admittedly, there's some serious bodies of water in the way, so maybe that's fair enough... I'd think he probably has a loose network of people who may move certain things northeast/southwest, but it's very slow and difficult.

Ah, I had it in my head it wasn't as far as that. In that case he'd be more likely to have his supply train coming from a city in a neighbouring region. Any items with a high resale value he'd ship further along though.

With elementals, it'd be difficult, I think. Maybe sending messengers to their place? In general, it's much harder to make contact with them without actually going places and meeting them. As for spirits, going to their place of power (a field god's field, for instance) and requesting to speak with them as an Eclipse might do it. Or you can use certain... I want to say Performance charms, but I'm not certain of my recollection there to allow them to materialize without cost (in motes) to them, so you'd be able to communicate with them more easily. I would also say that a prayer in an appropriate location, backed by the Eclipse power might get one to manifest, albeit grudgingly in many cases.

Hmm. I'll recheck the charms and see what I can without sorcery, but for the moment I'm inclined to hang onto it for the elemental angle.

That's reasonable enough, but probably not enough for me to like having a character start as a sorcerer (or become one when it doesn't make sense for their arc).

That's fair enough. As I said, give me a chance to reread things and see if I can work around it.

Mhm. That's reasonable, I think. Do his followers know he's a Solar?

A handful might, the inner circle as it were. The rest probably wouldn't, as not knowing that would probably keep them safer.

[Winter King]

Hm. Question for Winter: Would you allow for her to have the Spring Razor daiklave on page 619-620 of the book? It strikes me as an assassin's weapon, and if she can get away with carrying knives that might be an option I hadn't considered before. Similarly, I like the thrown needles. Poisoned needles, naturally. She might have grown a conscience but she doesn't fight fair. :p

Hm, that's fine, though one wonders how it got into criminal hands... unless... Hm, how would you feel if the heads of the Society had a Dragon-Blooded (most likely an outcaste who somehow obtained the thing) enforcer and/or champion who owned the daiklave and perhaps her other artifacts? She can almost certainly get away with carrying a knife (though more probably ought to be concealed) because that's how most adults in Creation wander about.

I'm completely okay with the idea of her stealing her gear off the Society as she burned it to the ground. It's the kind of spiteful act a burned operative might pull off. ^_^

Also, are there any special rules for the mechanical side of creating characters here?

Nope, no special rules. We're not using the advanced character creation either, so just do what the book says. :D

It doesn't necessarily need to be worship, but even spirits have things they need, things they can't do for themselves. It's all about finding that spot where each party has something the other wants.

Yep. Bargaining is important, though sometimes you can instill and persuade (to use the terms the system does).

Ah, I had it in my head it wasn't as far as that. In that case he'd be more likely to have his supply train coming from a city in a neighbouring region. Any items with a high resale value he'd ship further along though.

Yeah, it's a fair distance away. I imagine a city in a neighboring region would probably be something like Ember (which we know next to nothing about), and a few of my other home-brew satrapies.

Hmm. I'll recheck the charms and see what I can without sorcery, but for the moment I'm inclined to hang onto it for the elemental angle.

That's fair enough. As I said, give me a chance to reread things and see if I can work around it.

Here's a thought I had in the time between responding last time and now - while in the First Age, perhaps spirits such as elementals and gods came to petition the Sun's Chosen for favors, now the returned Solars must go to the places of their power, should they wish to negotiate. In 3e, it's somewhat harder to deal with elementals, both in that they're much more menacing combat-wise and that they're also no longer going to be able to be summoned directly (for instance, if a King of the Wood is kicking peasants around until they worship him, you can't summon him away from his home and beat him till he promises to stop).

A handful might, the inner circle as it were. The rest probably wouldn't, as not knowing that would probably keep them safer.

Almost certainly true.

[Empyrean]

Hm, that's fine, though one wonders how it got into criminal hands... unless... Hm, how would you feel if the heads of the Society had a Dragon-Blooded (most likely an outcaste who somehow obtained the thing) enforcer and/or champion who owned the daiklave and perhaps her other artifacts? She can almost certainly get away with carrying a knife (though more probably ought to be concealed) because that's how most adults in Creation wander about.

That sounds good to me. She'd be happy to liberate her gear from the Society, and depriving their champion of his gear would only make it more worth her while. And it gives me an excuse to put Supernal Larceny to work. :p

[HairyHeretic]

Yep. Bargaining is important, though sometimes you can instill and persuade (to use the terms the system does).

True, but having someone willing to work with you is going to work out a lot better than someone forced to.

Yeah, it's a fair distance away. I imagine a city in a neighboring region would probably be something like Ember (which we know next to nothing about), and a few of my other home-brew satrapies.

That sounds doable

Here's a thought I had in the time between responding last time and now - while in the First Age, perhaps spirits such as elementals and gods came to petition the Sun's Chosen for favors, now the returned Solars must go to the places of their power, should they wish to negotiate. In 3e, it's somewhat harder to deal with elementals, both in that they're much more menacing combat-wise and that they're also no longer going to be able to be summoned directly (for instance, if a King of the Wood is kicking peasants around until they worship him, you can't summon him away from his home and beat him till he promises to stop).

For spirits that would probably work okay, but for elementals its going to be a lot harder.

That being said, it would give a use for the summon elemental spell. The elemental you create gets sent to let the elemental you actually want to speak with know that you would like to politely request the pleasure of their company, to discuss matters of mutual interest :)

Almost certainly true.

Anyone who did know he was a Solar probably was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and saw him doing things most people couldn't.

[Winter King]

True, but having someone willing to work with you is going to work out a lot better than someone forced to.

That was my point exactly. :) Well, not exactly, but pretty much along the same lines. Building a relationship, as it were.

That sounds doable

Ember's only about 500 miles/800 km away from Dun-lat. I have no idea what goes on there. xD

For spirits that would probably work okay, but for elementals its going to be a lot harder.

What makes you think that?

That being said, it would give a use for the summon elemental spell. The elemental you create gets sent to let the elemental you actually want to speak with know that you would like to politely request the pleasure of their company, to discuss matters of mutual interest :)

Certainly, it's a possibility. I'm not sure it'd be so easy, though, especially in Immaculate territory.

Anyone who did know he was a Solar probably was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and saw him doing things most people couldn't.

And probably his caste mark. :P

[RSGAlex]

Despite being dissatisfied with the last answer/bit of exposition, I'm going to leave it unless I get lucky with parasites leaving me alone. Relatedly, anyone got recommendations for anti-tick measures?

(And putting my half-cent in, if I and HH are in the group, it's going to be my job to find a nice secretive place to hold a ritual sacrifice while HH prays his intent across, right? :p)

[Muse]

  I have my book now. 

  If I'm not too late, I can start building Chocolate this weekend. 

[Winter King]

Despite being dissatisfied with the last answer/bit of exposition, I'm going to leave it unless I get lucky with parasites leaving me alone. Relatedly, anyone got recommendations for anti-tick measures?

Eep. Sorry to hear that, man. I hope that you find a solution soon, but I've got nothing. :(

(And putting my half-cent in, if I and HH are in the group, it's going to be my job to find a nice secretive place to hold a ritual sacrifice while HH prays his intent across, right? :p)

Probably. :P

  I have my book now. 

  If I'm not too late, I can start building Chocolate this weekend. 

Nope, not too late at all. Feel free, if you like. :)

[HairyHeretic]

That was my point exactly. :) Well, not exactly, but pretty much along the same lines. Building a relationship, as it were.

Yep. I think most Exalts would have fragmentary memories of the First Age, so he'd remember how much a part spirits and elementals were of the whole infrastructure. They could be again. And from his own thoughts and nature, willing partner is going to be a better one than someone being forced into it. Being enslaved by the Fair Folk and the Guild may have had something to do with that particular line of thought :)

Ember's only about 500 miles/800 km away from Dun-lat. I have no idea what goes on there. xD

That's close enough to make trading viable.

What makes you think that?

A lot of the spirits he would deal with would tend to be locational, so (relatively) easy to find if he wanted to speak to them. Elementals, as I understand it, are more mobile, particularly the more powerful ones. Getting deep into the earth or high into the air to speak with an appropriate elemental is going to be tricky without some kind of sorcerous aid .. having a formed elemental carry a request for a meeting is going to work better.

Plus after reading over it, I prefer the 2nd ed version. I think the idea of creating an elemental .. it just doesn't work for me. I think it's much better that the spell summons an existing elemental. That way the sorcerer also has the ability to build a relationship with a particular elemental, the same way they could with another spirit.

Certainly, it's a possibility. I'm not sure it'd be so easy, though, especially in Immaculate territory.

Well, if he has set up a power base, then in his mind it's no longer Immaculate territory ;)

And probably his caste mark. :P

Depending on how *ahem* interesting ... the situation had become .. possibly. There's a nice example to illustrate things in this story I was doing

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=219804.0

and you can also get an idea of how the character operates. Wandering vagabonds don't tend to converse with powerful spirits as apparent equals :)

[Winter King]

Yep. I think most Exalts would have fragmentary memories of the First Age, so he'd remember how much a part spirits and elementals were of the whole infrastructure. They could be again. And from his own thoughts and nature, willing partner is going to be a better one than someone being forced into it. Being enslaved by the Fair Folk and the Guild may have had something to do with that particular line of thought :)

For memories of the First Age, I would think that rather than actual memories, he would instead have a more intuitive sense of "wait, why aren't they part of it?" An instinct, if you will. I'm incredibly reluctant to have anything beyond the vaguest impressions of the First Age, at least initially.

That's close enough to make trading viable.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. We'll have to figure out what it trades in, but I imagine that there are some fairly valuable things going back and forth.

A lot of the spirits he would deal with would tend to be locational, so (relatively) easy to find if he wanted to speak to them. Elementals, as I understand it, are more mobile, particularly the more powerful ones. Getting deep into the earth or high into the air to speak with an appropriate elemental is going to be tricky without some kind of sorcerous aid .. having a formed elemental carry a request for a meeting is going to work better.

Not sure that elementals are always more mobile, but even those that are tend to be the sorts who you wouldn't need to negotiate with in particular - ifrit, for example, or garda birds. And I would imagine actually that many of the more powerful elementals hold courts in various places. Also, keep in mind that you're an Eclipse, so you might be able to learn charms to ascend to cloud-castles to speak with elemental lords of Air, and to find your way into the depths of the earth to bargain with ancient elemental kings.

Plus after reading over it, I prefer the 2nd ed version. I think the idea of creating an elemental .. it just doesn't work for me. I think it's much better that the spell summons an existing elemental. That way the sorcerer also has the ability to build a relationship with a particular elemental, the same way they could with another spirit.

I hear what you're saying, yeah. It does make it somewhat harder to deal with elementals... but I also think I know why the choice was made. Well, there are a couple reasons that I can see, at any rate. Firstly, when you had it in 2e, there was (with later supplements) the potential to summon an elemental and piss off whomever they owed loyalty to. While it's true it allowed for a line of negotiation with whatever that particular being was, it also contributed to the image of the Solars as being disruptive to what little functioning Celestial Hierarchy there was. Secondly, it allowed for easy communication across vast distances. Like, from Dun-lat to Nexus distances. This was even stated to be a canonical occurrence, and some elemental courts made bargains with sorcerers solely for this purpose. This contributed to the feeling of Creation being rather smaller than it was. But I would like you to trust me here - even though you won't be able to communicate with elementals as trivially, if you feel the need to communicate with them, you will be able to do so. Instead of just casting a single spell and chatting with whatever appears, though, it'll be a journey as you attempt to gain notice of a given elemental, comprising of the entire circle, so that when you finally meet with them, it will feel like a triumph in and of itself. This is sort of the design philosophy of 3e, that I've noticed. No longer will spells and charms skip stories that have the potential to be interesting, but rather enable them.

Finally, it's important to remember that if you have summoned a created elemental in 3e, there's a chance that it will continue to exist long after it has been created, allowing you to establish that same amount of relationship to a spirit as you might have had before.

Well, if he has set up a power base, then in his mind it's no longer Immaculate territory ;)

Well, that is certainly legitimate.

Depending on how *ahem* interesting ... the situation had become .. possibly. There's a nice example to illustrate things in this story I was doing

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=219804.0

and you can also get an idea of how the character operates. Wandering vagabonds don't tend to converse with powerful spirits as apparent equals :)

Depends on the wandering vagabond, actually... See page 62 sidebar (63 in pdf) about how potent individuals appear to most mortal eyes. That said, that's a pretty excellent story. I like how he's operating there. :P

[Empyrean]

I have a question about a thrown weapon for Winter.

Okay, so I was looking at the Space-Warping Needles from the Infernals book of the 2nd edition, and I thought it might actually be a good weapon for Starlight. Essentially, they're moonsilver throwing needles that ignore cover and soak from non-artifact armor (by causing mundane materials to melt and distort out of the way of the needle). They can be summoned back to the attuned wielder's hand as a reflexive action from any distance for a mote of Essence. As 3-dot artifacts, they can be poisoned as normal needles could.

Sound good?

[HairyHeretic]

For memories of the First Age, I would think that rather than actual memories, he would instead have a more intuitive sense of "wait, why aren't they part of it?" An instinct, if you will. I'm incredibly reluctant to have anything beyond the vaguest impressions of the First Age, at least initially.

My own viewpoint is a bit different. I tend to think of the First Age memories the way you remember a dream .. scattered images and fragments of conversation, but no coherent whole.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. We'll have to figure out what it trades in, but I imagine that there are some fairly valuable things going back and forth.

Cool.

Not sure that elementals are always more mobile, but even those that are tend to be the sorts who you wouldn't need to negotiate with in particular - ifrit, for example, or garda birds. And I would imagine actually that many of the more powerful elementals hold courts in various places. Also, keep in mind that you're an Eclipse, so you might be able to learn charms to ascend to cloud-castles to speak with elemental lords of Air, and to find your way into the depths of the earth to bargain with ancient elemental kings.

I'd a quick skim through the charms, and I can't see any obvious ones that lend themselves to that. Getting to an Elemental Court wouldn't, and indeed shouldn't, be an easy task though.

I hear what you're saying, yeah. It does make it somewhat harder to deal with elementals... but I also think I know why the choice was made. Well, there are a couple reasons that I can see, at any rate. Firstly, when you had it in 2e, there was (with later supplements) the potential to summon an elemental and piss off whomever they owed loyalty to. While it's true it allowed for a line of negotiation with whatever that particular being was, it also contributed to the image of the Solars as being disruptive to what little functioning Celestial Hierarchy there was. Secondly, it allowed for easy communication across vast distances. Like, from Dun-lat to Nexus distances. This was even stated to be a canonical occurrence, and some elemental courts made bargains with sorcerers solely for this purpose. This contributed to the feeling of Creation being rather smaller than it was. But I would like you to trust me here - even though you won't be able to communicate with elementals as trivially, if you feel the need to communicate with them, you will be able to do so. Instead of just casting a single spell and chatting with whatever appears, though, it'll be a journey as you attempt to gain notice of a given elemental, comprising of the entire circle, so that when you finally meet with them, it will feel like a triumph in and of itself. This is sort of the design philosophy of 3e, that I've noticed. No longer will spells and charms skip stories that have the potential to be interesting, but rather enable them.

To reach someone important, yes, that is a story worth telling by itself, but I'm not sure every elemental requires that. After all, an Exalt has the ability the see, speak, deal with most spirits via Occult charms.

However, since you're GM, I shall go by how you want to handle things. We can discuss our own perspectives on things alongside that.

Finally, it's important to remember that if you have summoned a created elemental in 3e, there's a chance that it will continue to exist long after it has been created, allowing you to establish that same amount of relationship to a spirit as you might have had before.

TBH, I find that a rather poor idea. The sorcerer gets to create the life of an independent spirit by a single spell? That's another reason I prefer the second ed version.

Well, that is certainly legitimate.

Ok, slight exaggeration, but still :)

Depends on the wandering vagabond, actually... See page 62 sidebar (63 in pdf) about how potent individuals appear to most mortal eyes. That said, that's a pretty excellent story. I like how he's operating there. :P

That should give you a reasonable idea of what to expect from me. I just need to work out how to do a force weapon gun kata martial art later on ;)

[Winter King]

I have a question about a thrown weapon for Winter.

Okay, so I was looking at the Space-Warping Needles from the Infernals book of the 2nd edition, and I thought it might actually be a good weapon for Starlight. Essentially, they're moonsilver throwing needles that ignore cover and soak from non-artifact armor (by causing mundane materials to melt and distort out of the way of the needle). They can be summoned back to the attuned wielder's hand as a reflexive action from any distance for a mote of Essence. As 3-dot artifacts, they can be poisoned as normal needles could.

Sound good?

So, here's what I'm thinking. Space-warping Needles as a class of artifacts are probably something I don't like as a thing. However, there could be something like a handful of needles forged from moonsilver alloyed with green jade and bound up with the poisonous Essence of Vyar Akelos, a No Moon with the totem of a particularly poisonous snake. While the returns to the hand would be a thing that happens normally, the rest of it might be handled by Evocations, which we can hammer out together.

My own viewpoint is a bit different. I tend to think of the First Age memories the way you remember a dream .. scattered images and fragments of conversation, but no coherent whole.

Yes, that's pretty much what I was aiming for... but that may be my own feelings of dreams coming to the forefront. I mean, your Solar probably doesn't remember anything specific, but if he walks into an ancient First Age city, how it appeared in its glory days might flash momentarily before his eyes. If he meets with someone his past self knew, he may remember a few emotional impressions of how it was to be with that person before. I feel that actual dialogue in those flashbacks kind of ruins the effect, but that may be just my personal taste.

Cool.

I'd a quick skim through the charms, and I can't see any obvious ones that lend themselves to that. Getting to an Elemental Court wouldn't, and indeed shouldn't, be an easy task though.

Oh, I was referring to some custom charms that would have the Eclipse keyword, but yes, that's correct.

To reach someone important, yes, that is a story worth telling by itself, but I'm not sure every elemental requires that. After all, an Exalt has the ability the see, speak, deal with most spirits via Occult charms.

However, since you're GM, I shall go by how you want to handle things. We can discuss our own perspectives on things alongside that.

You're right. I mean, that said, most elementals you'd want to negotiate with are either pretty easy to find - "have you seen a large, fiery man with a sword wandering about here, killing bandits and collecting praise?" - or the sorts you'd want to take a journey for (the Censor of the South, for instance). But yeah, we can discuss specifics at a later date - I'm still trying to put my mind around how I see elementals interacting with the setting, and I'm not sure it's the same way gods do - that is, with benefits that would be directly helpful for a given community.

TBH, I find that a rather poor idea. The sorcerer gets to create the life of an independent spirit by a single spell? That's another reason I prefer the second ed version.

It reflects the nature of elementals - you're not actually creating one as such, but causing the circumstances to exist where one would arise from the Essence of the world. Elementals arise from the flows of Essence in the world naturally - the spell is just causing that to happen. I mean, it may not make you comfortable with the idea, but I find the idea legitimate.

Ok, slight exaggeration, but still :)

:P

That should give you a reasonable idea of what to expect from me. I just need to work out how to do a force weapon gun kata martial art later on ;)

Righteous Devil's not enough for you? :P

[HairyHeretic]

Yes, that's pretty much what I was aiming for... but that may be my own feelings of dreams coming to the forefront. I mean, your Solar probably doesn't remember anything specific, but if he walks into an ancient First Age city, how it appeared in its glory days might flash momentarily before his eyes. If he meets with someone his past self knew, he may remember a few emotional impressions of how it was to be with that person before. I feel that actual dialogue in those flashbacks kind of ruins the effect, but that may be just my personal taste.

Sounds like we're on fairly much the same page.

Oh, I was referring to some custom charms that would have the Eclipse keyword, but yes, that's correct.

Ah, okay. I haven't looked at those yet.

You're right. I mean, that said, most elementals you'd want to negotiate with are either pretty easy to find - "have you seen a large, fiery man with a sword wandering about here, killing bandits and collecting praise?" - or the sorts you'd want to take a journey for (the Censor of the South, for instance). But yeah, we can discuss specifics at a later date - I'm still trying to put my mind around how I see elementals interacting with the setting, and I'm not sure it's the same way gods do - that is, with benefits that would be directly helpful for a given community.

In general, no, but with an Exalt to *ahem* point things in the right direction, I can think off a few things that they'd be able to do.

It reflects the nature of elementals - you're not actually creating one as such, but causing the circumstances to exist where one would arise from the Essence of the world. Elementals arise from the flows of Essence in the world naturally - the spell is just causing that to happen. I mean, it may not make you comfortable with the idea, but I find the idea legitimate.

I can see that angle, but it still feels a bit ... I dunno. I guess it just doesn't really gel with how I see things, but that's a personal perspective. If you're happy with it in your game, all good.

:P

His aim will be, eventually, to rebuild the society into something better, which will then make it his. At least from his perspective.

Righteous Devil's not enough for you? :P

Firewands don't really suit me. I like the essence projection staff from 2nd ed, but reworked it to a pair of tonfa instead.

Oh, and I just noticed there was an exalted ventriloquism charm. And another for perfectly mimicing voices.

>:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:)

[Winter King]

Sounds like we're on fairly much the same page.

Yep!

Ah, okay. I haven't looked at those yet.

Well, I haven't written them yet, so that's fair. :P

In general, no, but with an Exalt to *ahem* point things in the right direction, I can think off a few things that they'd be able to do.

There's always more work for everyone. xD

I can see that angle, but it still feels a bit ... I dunno. I guess it just doesn't really gel with how I see things, but that's a personal perspective. If you're happy with it in your game, all good.

Fair enough.

His aim will be, eventually, to rebuild the society into something better, which will then make it his. At least from his perspective.

Haha. Yep, that's a very Realm-like perspective.

Firewands don't really suit me. I like the essence projection staff from 2nd ed, but reworked it to a pair of tonfa instead.

xD

Oh, and I just noticed there was an exalted ventriloquism charm. And another for perfectly mimicing voices.

>:) >:) >:) >:) >:) >:)

Why, yes, there is...

[Empyrean]

So, here's what I'm thinking. Space-warping Needles as a class of artifacts are probably something I don't like as a thing. However, there could be something like a handful of needles forged from moonsilver alloyed with green jade and bound up with the poisonous Essence of Vyar Akelos, a No Moon with the totem of a particularly poisonous snake. While the returns to the hand would be a thing that happens normally, the rest of it might be handled by Evocations, which we can hammer out together.

So the needles would be poisoned by their nature, and return to her hand when thrown? I'm not sure how to design an Evocation though. Part of the original artifact was that it penetrates through cover and mundane materials. Would that be one evocation or two? Could we make an evocation that allows the needles to strike at someone's shadow and damage or poison them?

[Winter King]

Well, they would probably have an evocation similar to Spring Razor's first, such that a given attack might activate the poison they hold. Then, we'd look to the others - warping around armor and causing wounds that do not stop bleeding are some of the qualities of moonsilver, so an evocation such that it goes through cover, or seeks uncovered flesh, bending around edges of armor.

I'm not sure how I feel about so closely replicating a Solar charm with an evocation, though, come to think of it (that's Wise Arrow, which is an archery one). We'd also need to look for anything that might break with regards to Thrown charms, but we can test that as we play, potentially.

[Empyrean]

Okay. I haven't looked through the Thrown charms yet. Honestly, I kind of skimmed the very lengthy Charm section and will need to go into it when I pick her charms. :p

I like the idea of evocations that cause it to bend around or ignore armor, and to cause continual bleeding. What type of poison should we design for it? Could it develop poisons or diseases as more evocations are unlocked?

[Winter King]

Okay. I haven't looked through the Thrown charms yet. Honestly, I kind of skimmed the very lengthy Charm section and will need to go into it when I pick her charms. :p

Same here! :D More seriously, though, we'll probably figure out during play that "wait, our home-brew does what when combined with X and Y thrown charms?"

I like the idea of evocations that cause it to bend around or ignore armor, and to cause continual bleeding. What type of poison should we design for it? Could it develop poisons or diseases as more evocations are unlocked?

I would say that the development of poisons is definitely something that might be done, but keep in mind that this is an Artifact 3 item, and mostly made from moonsilver (if you want the armor-bending evocations, at least), so I think there'd probably only be one poison (which mostly comes from green jade), at least for a Solar who tried to wring evocations from it. As for what type of poison, one imagines that it's one that does initiative damage per round. Arrow Frog Venom's probably a good starting point (or maybe snake venom is more apt), and we can play with the numbers from there.

[Empyrean]

Same here! :D More seriously, though, we'll probably figure out during play that "wait, our home-brew does what when combined with X and Y thrown charms?"

"So that's how you a throw a needle all the way to Yu-Shan and hit Kejak in the eye. Who knew? :p

I would say that the development of poisons is definitely something that might be done, but keep in mind that this is an Artifact 3 item, and mostly made from moonsilver (if you want the armor-bending evocations, at least), so I think there'd probably only be one poison (which mostly comes from green jade), at least for a Solar who tried to wring evocations from it. As for what type of poison, one imagines that it's one that does initiative damage per round. Arrow Frog Venom's probably a good starting point (or maybe snake venom is more apt), and we can play with the numbers from there.

Okay. Out of curiosity, what would I get if I bumped it up to Artifact 5? More of the same or would anything change?

[Winter King]

"So that's how you a throw a needle all the way to Yu-Shan and hit Kejak in the eye. Who knew? :p

He didn't Duck Fate enough.  :'(

... xD

Okay. Out of curiosity, what would I get if I bumped it up to Artifact 5? More of the same or would anything change?

Let me double-check what kind of evocations, relative to Artifact 3, an artifact 5 item had... Okay, so note that none of the artifacts have more than 5 evocations. Beloved Adorei has evocations that make it better for a duelist - it's a sword that makes you better at swording, dependent on her relationship to you. She has 5 evocations, but also some effects depending on the level of her intimacy towards you.

Brilliant Sentinel, Orichalcum Heavy Plate, appears to have evocations focused around shining brightly with the Sun's Light, and defending its wearer's intimacies (it only has 3 evocations).

Moonlit Huntress has one really good evocation that takes awhile to unlock, but it offers bonuses based on one's initiative that are centered around building initiative, attacking, than vanishing.

So, what I'm getting from reading these in detail is that we need to determine what narrative we want to put behind the needles... and that evocations from Artifact 3 items are much... more basic than those from Artifact 5 - where you've got Black Wind, whose powers are determined by the number of murderers you've killed with it.

[Empyrean]

Off the top of my head, needles made by a No Moon might have something against the Realm? Or maybe they were made to help enforce order among a society-building Lunar? Someone who operated from the shadows and terrorized his/her people into line rather than ruling openly as a God-King or Queen? Maybe our No Moon artifact maker contributed their forces when the Scavenger Lands repelled the Realm invasion from Thorns a couple of decades back and got themselves killed by Realm Legions/the Wyld Hunt in the process? So the needles and Vyar's other artifacts got confiscated.

Then the Realm got its' ass handed to it and had to retreat and the artifact cache was lost in the rout. The Society got it's grubby hands on it all through various back-channel, black-market means and gave it to their outcaste champion. Who gets it all stolen away when Starlight decides to take the Society down as her parting gift. How's that sound?

[Winter King]

Hm, well, I'm not sure how much you want to base your weapons' narrative off of the Realm and opposition thereto. It might be more interesting to say he made them specifically to kill someone who trusted the shape he was in - perhaps he carried them in his hair to assassinate a satrap while wearing the shape of his son. This might mean that evocations key off of your target trusting you or at least trusting what you appear to be, for instance. The venom becomes more potent (or activates) when you surprise the opponent, perhaps?

[Empyrean]

That could work. The venom is inherent to the weapon, but it gets stronger when taking someone by surprise. It's evocations could be triggered by striking from surprise, ambush, and appearing as one thing while being another.

[Winter King]

Yes, that would work. We'll have to work on individual evocations and such, but that's fair enough.