New James Bond.

[Lustful Bride]

According to some of Sony's leaked Emails there have been rumors that they were considering the actor Idris Elba




Or as I know him always "Luther"  :P

I personally think that he could pull off a James Bond but not an action oriented one. I could not see him pulling off all the necessary stunts, but I do see him more as a mind game kind of man. Playing things more intellectually than previous bonds.

What do you all think?

[Inkidu]

I think Idris could be an action-y Bond, but not a rough and tumble one Like Connery or Craig, probably a more subdued pragmatic Craig kind of action-y.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Possibly he would make a good James Bond but the character is iconic and shouldn't be messed with.  Partnering his character with Bond might work better.

[Lustful Bride]

Possibly he would make a good James Bond but the character is iconic and shouldn't be messed with.  Partnering his character with Bond might work better.

that might actually be fascinating, looking at Bond from the outside in.  :o

[Inkidu]

Possibly he would make a good James Bond but the character is iconic and shouldn't be messed with.  Partnering his character with Bond might work better.

I don't know, Craig got away with being blond. I think the bag is open and the possibility cats are running loose. :D

There are two three criteria for Bond in my book:

From somewhere in the UK.
Suave.
Male.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I don't know, Craig got away with being blond. I think the bag is open and the possibility cats are running loose. :D

There are two three criteria for Bond in my book:

From somewhere in the UK.
Suave.
Male.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Craig is a Bond type and being blond or not really has nothing to do with it.  I was referring to the character aspects, the wiry, tough action character, the lean body type and the portrayal and nothing else.

[Inkidu]

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Craig is a Bond type and being blond or not really has nothing to do with it.  I was referring to the character aspects, the wiry, tough action character, the lean body type and the portrayal and nothing else.

I was just joking. There was a bit of controversy (Read: Fan rage) about Craig being blond, that's it. :)

[Beguile's Mistress]

Oh.  I don't read that stuff so I wouldn't know.  I thought it was another case of someone misinterpreting something I said.  Instead it was me not getting the reference. *nods*

[Lilias]

that might actually be fascinating, looking at Bond from the outside in.  :o

Bond + male sidekick = disaster, most of the time (Saunders, Trevelyan, etc). It would be good to buck that trend too. ;D

[Valerian]

I saw something on a Cracked list a while back that struck me as an interesting take on the whole Bond mythos -- the idea was that the name "James Bond" was, like M or Q, simply a code name that's been used by different people through the years.  It's a neat way of explaining the different actors in the role without having to resort to the theory that Bond is actually a Time Lord.  ::)

[Lustful Bride]

I saw something on a Cracked list a while back that struck me as an interesting take on the whole Bond mythos -- the idea was that the name "James Bond" was, like M or Q, simply a code name that's been used by different people through the years.  It's a neat way of explaining the different actors in the role without having to resort to the theory that Bond is actually a Time Lord.  ::)

That's my personal headcannon as well. James Bond is just a title used all throughout the ages.  :-)

[Oniya]

Bond + male sidekick = disaster, most of the time (Saunders, Trevelyan, etc). It would be good to buck that trend too. ;D

Don't forget poor Quarrel (and Quarrel Junior).

[Praetoria]

The idea of a black James Bond has been floating around since around the release of 'Quantum of Solace'.  Sean 'Puffy' Combs was the one talking about how he wanted to lay Bond, but everyone immediately switched to talking about Idris Elba as Bond. So, this isn't totally new.

That being said, I think that there's actually a franchise opportunity here. The next film is bringing back SPECTER (and Blowfeld!) and Skyfall did a fantastic job of laying down the foundation for the Bond future. So, how about Idris Elba as a different 00 agent? MGM/UA certainly needs some kind of big franchise to bank on like Disney and Warner Brothers have.

For that matter, I think Angelina Jolie once brought up the question 'why not a female Bond?' So, how about another 00 film focusing on a female agent? Disney/Marvel is banking on 'Agent Carter', and it's looking good. You could even have a bit of a joke between the female agent and Bond by making her 006, so she reminds him that she's 'one higher up the chain' than him.

[Inkidu]

I'm not opposed to female spies, I love female spies, but I think the problem with a female Bond is that it'd be seen as propping up a female actor with a much more powerful franchise. :\

So I'd like a female spy franchise to kind move under its own power.

[Deamonbane]

An interesting thought would be to introduce the entire 00 team, make different movies about them like they do with Avengers and then one big mash up!

Edit: One where 006 (Sean Bean) Doesn't die, preferably...

[Beorning]

I saw something on a Cracked list a while back that struck me as an interesting take on the whole Bond mythos -- the idea was that the name "James Bond" was, like M or Q, simply a code name that's been used by different people through the years.  It's a neat way of explaining the different actors in the role without having to resort to the theory that Bond is actually a Time Lord.  ::)

Well, if they really go with a black Bond, then it'd have to become a canon explanation. There is a line beyond which you can't say that it's still the same character...

No disrespect meant, but if a character that has always been portrayed as a white Englishman can suddenly become black, then really - why not a female Bond, then?

I'm not opposed to female spies, I love female spies, but I think the problem with a female Bond is that it'd be seen as propping up a female actor with a much more powerful franchise. :\

So I'd like a female spy franchise to kind move under its own power.

Well, in that case, it's time to start lobbying for a Velvet movie :)

[persephone325]

I'm all for it. Shake things up. Do something different.

The main "problem" I see people talking about all the time, is the fact that he's black. So? Who gives a rat's ass? I understand Bond is an iconic character and all that. And people don't want to see an iconic character suddenly become a different race. But at the same time, it's entertainment.

If none of the previous Bond actors have a problem with it, then why should we?

It's along the same vein as when Jackie Earl Haley played Freddy in the new Nightmare On Elm Street movie. Robert Englund was totally fine with his portrayal as a child molester, without all the witty one-liners. That was the original character concept (if I recall correctly) before Craven changed him to be a child killer. It made Freddy more of a monster, in my opinion. I liked Englund's portrayal of Freddy. But I liked Haley's more, because he was vicious and evil. But again, I like villains like that.

But having Bond be portrayed by a black actor is "new and scary", and not everyone likes change. My opinion is: at least give him a chance, and then make your decision. (Not saying "you" as anyone in particular. Just meant in a general way. lol)

[Beguile's Mistress]

I'm kind of getting the idea that people think you need to use the James Bond character to sell the actor rather than being able to find an actor to portray James Bond in the way the character should be portrayed.  The character is too big to allow for a change in who he is.  007 is 007 and no one else is him.  005 can be a woman and 009 can be a different race.  Why limit the race to only black as everyone else is doing?  Why not Asian or Middle Eastern?  You need to fit the character rather than change him.

Let's have Craig Ferguson portray Gandalf or Chelsea Handler take the role of the queen in Snow White.  A blond blue-eyed metrosexual can play Dracula's great-grandson but would not be believable as Dracula.  Snape as done by...Miley Cyrus. ;D

[Beorning]

Exactly. For better or worse, Bond has been defined as a white Englishman. You can't just say that from now on, he's going to be of different ethnicity. It's just... not the same character anymore.

For the same reason, I'm annoyed by the fact that they are making Johnny Storm black in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie. I have nothing against black superheroes, but that particular character has been created as a white, blonde guy. That's who he is. You can't just turn him into a black guy out of a sudden...

[Oniya]

Are they making Sue Richards black as well?  Because - ya know - they are supposed to be brother and sister. 

As for Idris Elba as Bond, I found the actor's response quite amusing:

Isn't 007 supposed to handsome? Glad you think I've got a shot! Happy New year people.

https://twitter.com/idriselba/status/548874165399601152/photo/1

[Inkidu]

Are they making Sue Richards black as well?  Because - ya know - they are supposed to be brother and sister. 

A...dopted? *shrugs*

Sound like they might be doing a reboot of Fan4 again. :P

Fox doesn't want to lose the rights to Fantastic FOur though I suppose.

[Oniya]

Adoption is certainly another option, but it's still messing with some pretty solidly established canon. 

[Stella]

Is Daniel Craig leaving the series, or is all of this just speculation on Sony's part?

[Blythe]

Is Daniel Craig leaving the series, or is all of this just speculation on Sony's part?

From what I've heard, Daniel Craig is purportedly doing only one more Bond film after Spectre, although no idea if that's legitimate info or not.

[Cosmo_ac]

Personally I don't like messing with Canon, because if it wasn't for the cannon, in most cases, the movie would not be made in the first place.  Going around and making huge changes is a slap in the face of fans who have invested time and money into said canon, making it what it is.  Taking a character like Bond and making him black for no other reason then to have a black bond is, well, just plain sad.  If they did say, a mind transfer into a black guy, or some crazy cosmetic surgery, for undercover work (cause seriously, how can every super-villain out there not have a picture of the guy's face, as bond is less then subtle) at least that could be acceptable.

That being said, sometimes you have to take creative licensing.  What makes a good book or a good comic is not the same as making a good movie.  It is a different medium, and has to be adjusted accordingly.

I am a fan of the idea of their being different 007's (as explained earlier), but as I don't think it is canon that might be a hard sell.  I do like the idea of having other 00 agents explored though.  Could make a good series, like 24.

[la dame en noir]

Bond is open for interpretation. People dwell too much on what it should or shouldn't be and not letting it speak for itself. Same thing happened with the new Annie. Its a little silly.

Besides, Idris is British, so he already wins in my book.

[la dame en noir]

Personally I don't like messing with Canon, because if it wasn't for the cannon, in most cases, the movie would not be made in the first place.  Going around and making huge changes is a slap in the face of fans who have invested time and money into said canon, making it what it is.  Taking a character like Bond and making him black for no other reason then to have a black bond is, well, just plain sad.  If they did say, a mind transfer into a black guy, or some crazy cosmetic surgery, for undercover work (cause seriously, how can every super-villain out there not have a picture of the guy's face, as bond is less then subtle) at least that could be acceptable.

That being said, sometimes you have to take creative licensing.  What makes a good book or a good comic is not the same as making a good movie.  It is a different medium, and has to be adjusted accordingly.

I am a fan of the idea of their being different 007's (as explained earlier), but as I don't think it is canon that might be a hard sell.  I do like the idea of having other 00 agents explored though.  Could make a good series, like 24.

I think its a little silly that you mentioned his race is the only factor them using him. Its a little prejudice and sad. Its like comic book superheroes, there is always more than one and portrayed a billion different ways. There is nothing wrong with a fictional character like BOND to be black. I don't even know thats being brought up.

[Cosmo_ac]

I think its a little silly that you mentioned his race is the only factor them using him. Its a little prejudice and sad. Its like comic book superheroes, there is always more than one and portrayed a billion different ways. There is nothing wrong with a fictional character like BOND to be black. I don't even know thats being brought up.

I don't think it's silly, sad at all, or prejudice.  It's just acknowledging and  respecting the fact that Bond is a white English male, and believing that he should continue to be portrayed that way, because that's what he was created to be, and what those who buy the material have supported up to this point.  While the black man in question may be an excellent actor, I don't believe that all capable white actors who could play the role have disappeared or are just that bad in comparison that they need to hire a man of another race to fill what has been up to this point a role played by white men, because the character in question is white.  It would be like making a white Shaft.  Yeah, you could do it, but the fuck why?

[Stella]

Thanks, Blythe.

Personally I don't like messing with Canon, because if it wasn't for the cannon, in most cases, the movie would not be made in the first place.  Going around and making huge changes is a slap in the face of fans who have invested time and money into said canon, making it what it is.  Taking a character like Bond and making him black for no other reason then to have a black bond is, well, just plain sad.  If they did say, a mind transfer into a black guy, or some crazy cosmetic surgery, for undercover work (cause seriously, how can every super-villain out there not have a picture of the guy's face, as bond is less then subtle) at least that could be acceptable.

I don't agree, because I don't see how changing the character's ethnicity is a 'slap in the face' to fans, or a major change to canon. I also don't view the potential casting of a black man in the role of Bond to be because he's a black man; wouldn't it be because he's the best actor for the role? The person who embodies the characteristics of Bond best? That's far more important.

Bigger changes have been made in the history of James Bond canon than casting. There are massive deviations from the plots of the books to the films. From Russia With Love* (for instance, I've not read them all) in print is alike the film only in name. If I were a massive Bond fan, I'd be way more annoyed at the books I enjoyed not making it to screen intact.


*Edit - I meant The Spy Who Loved Me. Actually, I think I remember FRWL as being one of the more accurate ones..? I can't remember.

[la dame en noir]

I don't think it's silly, sad at all, or prejudice.  It's just acknowledging and  respecting the fact that Bond is a white English male, and believing that he should continue to be portrayed that way, because that's what he was created to be, and what those who buy the material have supported up to this point.  While the black man in question may be an excellent actor, I don't believe that all capable white actors who could play the role have disappeared or are just that bad in comparison that they need to hire a man of another race to fill what has been up to this point a role played by white men, because the character in question is white.  It would be like making a white Shaft.  Yeah, you could do it, but the fuck why?

My question to you is: why the hell does it bother you so much?

[Blythe]

A question for those a bit more familiar! I am not familiar with Iblis Elba as an actor--what roles has he played as; what has he starred in? Any particularly good ones anyone would recommend I should see him in? I honestly don't think I can have an opinion of him as a potential Bond yet until I see his acting. ^^

[la dame en noir]

@Blythe: besides being known for Luther...

he was also in Thor as the gatekeeper(forgot his name)
Pacific Rim
Prometheus(but the movie itself wasn't all that great)
No Good Deed

hes in been in quite a few things.

[Cosmo_ac]

My question to you is: why the hell does it bother you so much?

I thought I was pretty clear on that, but let specifically list them.

1. The character was written as white English male.
2. The character has been up to this point, for the last what 20-40 years, a white English male.
3. The fans, the people who have spent money, financing the Bond franchise, allowing them to profitably create movies and books, have been buying them with the character as being a white English Male.
4. Their has yet to be a good reason presented as to why Bond would suddenly have his race changed.

I'm sure more could be thought up, but those are a good four to start.

[la dame en noir]

Ha! Thats what i'm talking about. You're worried so much about the color of his skin.

Its the same thing they did when they found out Annie was being portrayed by a black girl. This is just so damn silly.

[Blythe]

@Blythe: besides being known for Luther...

Unfortunately, I don't think I'm familiar with that role. Will have to look him up there and see how he did!  :-)

he was also in Thor as the gatekeeper(forgot his name)

That was him? I adored Heimdall in the movie Thor!  :o

Also, huh, yeah, I do remember him from Pacific Rim. I can't believe I forgot about that movie--thank you! ^^

[la dame en noir]

Also, he spent 2 seasons on the Wire, if you ever watched that. He's been quite a few things and I didn't even realize it lol. And you're welcome.

[Cosmo_ac]

I don't agree, because I don't see how changing the character's ethnicity is a 'slap in the face' to fans, or a major change to canon. I also don't view the potential casting of a black man in the role of Bond to be because he's a black man; wouldn't it be because he's the best actor for the role? The person who embodies the characteristics of Bond best? That's far more important.

Bigger changes have been made in the history of James Bond canon than casting. There are massive deviations from the plots of the books to the films. From Russia With Love* (for instance, I've not read them all) in print is alike the film only in name. If I were a massive Bond fan, I'd be way more annoyed at the books I enjoyed not making it to screen intact.

If you don't see how changing a white character to a black character is not a major change to canon, I'm really not sure what to say.  As for if he is the best actor for the role, I really have to wonder if that's the case.  As a rule, I'm apposed to the PC alarmists, and generally I think the arguments they make are silly.  That being said, when they it comes to rewriting characters, I'm a little more iffy.  Especially in the case where you have a series, and remember, the Bond franchise is a series.  It's not a stand alone movie,

As for changes between novels and movies, I already touched upon that.  Movies and books don't always translate clearly.  That being said, their usually, IMO has to be a reasonable reason to change canon. 

[la dame en noir]

Just like every Jesus movie is completely white washed

or

The new Exodus movie with a completely white cast...yeah

whatever lol

[Kuroneko]

As someone who works in the business, I personally think it would be great to have Elba or any other actor of color considered for a role with the kind of name recognition as Bond. It's about time Hollywood caught up with theatre in terms of color blind casting, especially in light of Ridley Scott's recent comments about why he cast white actors in the lead roles in Exodus rather than actors of color, who instead were only cast in stereotypical roles as slaves, etc.

[Cosmo_ac]

Ha! Thats what i'm talking about. You're worried so much about the color of his skin.

Its the same thing they did when they found out Annie was being portrayed by a black girl. This is just so damn silly.

Ha!  You're acting like you stumbled upon some fucking discovery.  I'm not worried, just pointing out the elephant in the room.  Yes, he is black,  And Bond is white.  Ta-da!  That being said, if they tried to use a women for James Bond (Jamie Bond? Jane Bond?  Jules Bond? Jessica Bond?) or somebody like, say the tubby guy from Hot Fuzz, Sean of the Dead, etc or an  English white male in a wheelchair, I would say the same thing.

As far as Annie goes, which seems to have been crucified by critics, that doesn't actually bother me too much, one of the reasons being that Annie is a one shot movie.  It's not part of a continuing series.  For example, Romeo + Juliet is a movie I love, and it had a black man play Mercutio.  I thought the actor in question did a great job, and have been a fan of him ever since.  However, the casting of a black character works in this case, because the writers made it  work.  Ie, it takes place in a contemporary setting and we didn't have a white guy play the role for the first half of the movie. 

You want James Bond to be black?  Fine.  But find a better reason then just: Blah!  He's Black now! 

And On a side note, I have yet to hear some good reasons as to why a black character should be used to portray a canon white character.

[Cosmo_ac]

Just like every Jesus movie is completely white washed

or

The new Exodus movie with a completely white cast...yeah

whatever lol

Sorry, was this comment addressed to me?  And if so, what was the point you were trying to make?  Throwing out a few film comments is a bit vague, especially in this case.

[la dame en noir]

The fact the only reason you don't like it is because of his skin complexion completely supports my point.

Its okay to have white males portraying people of color, but never the other way around. Its baised, racist, and downright silly. Lets just end this little argument now before it gets ugly.

[Lilias]

Its the same thing they did when they found out Annie was being portrayed by a black girl. This is just so damn silly.

What did the producers do with all the red hair references in the show?

[Cosmo_ac]

The fact the only reason you don't like it is because of his skin complexion completely supports my point.

Its okay to have white males portraying people of color, but never the other way around. Its baised, racist, and downright silly. Lets just end this little argument now before it gets ugly.

If your point is that I don't believe a black person should play a white role in a series of movies based on a series of novels where their character is white and established for many a year, then yeah, but I haven't exactly been shy on that.  Granted, as I already stated, I wouldn't want a women, a person playing somebody who has a physical disability, or somebody who is not at least somewhat physically similar portraying the royal either.

for the record though, I don't support white people taking the roles of black people either.  Generally speaking, I think that roles should stay pretty much how they are written unless there is good reason given. 

Oh, and the fact that I have yet to hear a good reason for a character who is established to be one race be portrayed by another race, supports my point.

[la dame en noir]

I understand where you're coming from. But you don't seem to understand why its still to get up in arms over it. Everyone will always know that James Bond was a sexy ass white Englishman and nothing will change that. Have an open mind, go see the movie and then judge it.

[la dame en noir]

What did the producers do with all the red hair references in the show?

I don't know, I never watched the new one.

But they mostly changed it to how messy and wild it was. But why should that matter? Every little girl should have someone to look up to. I had to wait until I was 19 years old until I saw a black Disney princess.

[SouvlakiSpaceStation]

I support this 100% because I will watch anything that will show me Idris Elba in action scenes wearing tight pants that accentuate his glorious booty (I mean have you seen dat booty?), and also because seeing people get mad that characters who were once white are now (insert anything that's not white) fills me with sadistic glee.

[Stella]

If you don't see how changing a white character to a black character is not a major change to canon, I'm really not sure what to say.  As for if he is the best actor for the role, I really have to wonder if that's the case.  As a rule, I'm apposed to the PC alarmists, and generally I think the arguments they make are silly.  That being said, when they it comes to rewriting characters, I'm a little more iffy.  Especially in the case where you have a series, and remember, the Bond franchise is a series.  It's not a stand alone movie,

As for changes between novels and movies, I already touched upon that.  Movies and books don't always translate clearly.  That being said, their usually, IMO has to be a reasonable reason to change canon. 

Well, I don't see it as being a big change to canon, because changing ethnicity doesn't necessarily change the characterisation. We've no idea if that would be a character rewrite - because we haven't seen anything yet.

[consortium11]

Complaints about changing the canon with relation to Bond strike me as somewhat strange; the Bond of the films is already vastly different to the Bond of the stories and it's not as if characters haven't changed ethnicity within the movie-verse itself; Leiter's gone from white to black already.

[Vorian]

Just like every Jesus movie is completely white washed

or

The new Exodus movie with a completely white cast...yeah

whatever lol

Personally I'm not fond of the practice going in either direction, and don't feel reversing a racist practice makes it any less questionable. But then I'd also much rather see original stories and characters without so much baggage than endless reboots, remakes, and recasts in most cases. There's also a big difference between a remake set in another time and place, and a continuation of a well established character within a single series - if the new version of the lead character looks nothing like the old within the same continuity I'm going to notice, and it's more than a little jarring if no explanation is offered. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.

[Kythia]

Plus, Bond the White Englishman has been played by a Scot (a Scot who famously makes dick all effort to do accents, whats more), an Englishman, an Australian, a Welshman and and an Irishman.  Drawing the line at saying skin colour is a step too far seems a little arbitrary.

[Beorning]

Are they making Sue Richards black as well?  Because - ya know - they are supposed to be brother and sister. 

Sue Storm is going to be white (but not necessarily blonde, as the actress they're going with is a brunette). I think they'll be going with Johnny being either adopted, or the Storm parents being an interracial marriage.

I admit that I don't like this change - and I *really* didn't like the reactions of some commenters to people who objected it. For once, the ComicsAlliance site commented that there should be no discussion of this casting decision at all and that all complaints against it  are pure racism and nothing else... I don't read ComicsAlliance anymore  >:(

Anyway...

I have nothing against Idris Elba, as I know he's a good actor. It's just that Bond really has been, in my mind, defined as having certain looks. Elba just... doesn't have these looks. It's as if Jackson hired a black actor to play Gandalf...

And to be clear, i'm annoyed with white people playing non-white characters, too. If, say, somebody made another Miami Vice movie and casted a white actor as Tubbs, that would be wrong, too.

[Vorian]

Sue Storm is going to be white (but not necessarily blonde, as the actress they're going with is a brunette). I think they'll be going with Johnny being either adopted, or the Storm parents being an interracial marriage.

I admit that I don't like this change - and I *really* didn't like the reactions of some commenters to people who objected it. For once, the ComicsAlliance site commented that there should be no discussion of this casting decision at all and that all complaints against it  are pure racism and nothing else... I don't read ComicsAlliance anymore  >:(

Anyway...

I have nothing against Idris Elba, as I know he's a good actor. It's just that Bond really has been, in my mind, defined as having certain looks. Elba just... doesn't have these looks. It's as if Jackson hired a black actor to play Gandalf...

And to be clear, i'm annoyed with white people playing non-white characters, too. If, say, somebody made another Miami Vice movie and casted a white actor as Tubbs, that would be wrong, too.

If I recall correctly they said Sue was adopted, and that's about par for course on how faithful the characters are in this adaptation ... sounds like pretty much in name only. :-\

[Beorning]

If I recall correctly they said Sue was adopted, and that's about par for course on how faithful the characters are in this adaptation ... sounds like pretty much in name only. :-\

Wait. They are making both Johnny and the Storm elders black... but Sue has to white? Now *that* doesn't make sense at all.

Maybe they really *are* afraid of showing an interracial relationship between Reed and Sue... which, funnily, would mean that it's the makers of this new movie who are racist here.

[Oniya]

Okay, I gave it some thought and came up with a way it would work - although Sir Ian is probably approaching about 78 rpm at six feet under.

James Bond (the white one) is on a mission and flubs up in a way that not even his suavity and derring-do can get him out of.  This is shown as part of the classic Bond intro scene.  Cut to M (by the way, I was weirded out when M was first given a female portrayal - does that make me a bad person?) in her office, stamping the file 'deceased'.  She picks up the phone and says 'Send in the new one.'  Bond intro music starts with the classic view down the gun barrel and Idris Elba walking across the screen.

This would also handily explain how 'James Bond' has gone from a blue-eyed brunette (Moore) to a dark-eyed brunette (Connery and Dalton), to a blue-eyed blonde (Craig).  It's not a name - it's a code name.  The name 'Bond, James Bond' carries with it a certain amount of clout after the agents' exploits under that name, so why not add to the mystique?


Regarding the Fantastic 4 thing, if they're going with the older Storms being black, then it would be less complicated in my eyes to make the whole family black - and I'd be fine with that.

[Beorning]

Okay, I gave it some thought and came up with a way it would work - although Sir Ian is probably approaching about 78 rpm at six feet under.

James Bond (the white one) is on a mission and flubs up in a way that not even his suavity and derring-do can get him out of.  This is shown as part of the classic Bond intro scene.  Cut to M (by the way, I was weirded out when M was first given a female portrayal - does that make me a bad person?) in her office, stamping the file 'deceased'.  She picks up the phone and says 'Send in the new one.'  Bond intro music starts with the classic view down the gun barrel and Idris Elba walking across the screen.

This would also handily explain how 'James Bond' has gone from a blue-eyed brunette (Moore) to a dark-eyed brunette (Connery and Dalton), to a blue-eyed blonde (Craig).  It's not a name - it's a code name.  The name 'Bond, James Bond' carries with it a certain amount of clout after the agents' exploits under that name, so why not add to the mystique?

See, that would work for me, too. If they went with there being multiple Bonds, then it would make perfect sense with one of them finally being black.

Just like it would work for me if a new incarnation of the Doctor turned out to be black. Heck, I think that there *is* some canon justification that the Doctor could turned out female in some future iteration...

[Oniya]

There was actually a one-off comment by Tom Baker before Peter Davidson was announced that he wished the new Doctor well - whoever he or she might be.  Fans went nuts.  Had to wait until now for a Time Lord to actually jump the gender barrier.

[Beorning]

There was actually a one-off comment by Tom Baker before Peter Davidson was announced that he wished the new Doctor well - whoever he or she might be.  Fans went nuts.  Had to wait until now for a Time Lord to actually jump the gender barrier.

"Until now"..? Does that mean...?  :o

No spoilers for Season 8, pleeeeeeease!!!!

[Lilias]

Season 8 is done, and Capaldi isn't going away anytime soon. When it's time for the 13th... well, all bets are off. What we did have on 8, though, was the first proper Time Lady in aaaages. ;)

[DukeJohn]

James Bond (the white one) is on a mission and flubs up in a way that not even his suavity and derring-do can get him out of.  This is shown as part of the classic Bond intro scene.  Cut to M (by the way, I was weirded out when M was first given a female portrayal - does that make me a bad person?) in her office, stamping the file 'deceased'.  She picks up the phone and says 'Send in the new one.'  Bond intro music starts with the classic view down the gun barrel and Idris Elba walking across the screen.

This would also handily explain how 'James Bond' has gone from a blue-eyed brunette (Moore) to a dark-eyed brunette (Connery and Dalton), to a blue-eyed blonde (Craig).  It's not a name - it's a code name.  The name 'Bond, James Bond' carries with it a certain amount of clout after the agents' exploits under that name, so why not add to the mystique?

I personally just think of them all as different guys who exist separately from one another. I could maybe see Connery-Lazenby-Moore as the same guy, since the cast for the side characters stays the same and there are some references to past movies (like visiting Tracy's grave and the Blofeld cameo in For Your Eyes Only), but I think of Dalton, Brosnan, and Craig as all being separate.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's a black James Bond next time around, with all the talk about it, but Elba will be too old to be just starting out as Bond by the time Craig is done (he's on contract for two more movies).

[persephone325]

Blythe, he also played in The Losers with Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Chris Evans. Zoe Saldana was in the movie as well.

[consortium11]

Okay, I gave it some thought and came up with a way it would work - although Sir Ian is probably approaching about 78 rpm at six feet under.

James Bond (the white one) is on a mission and flubs up in a way that not even his suavity and derring-do can get him out of.  This is shown as part of the classic Bond intro scene.  Cut to M (by the way, I was weirded out when M was first given a female portrayal - does that make me a bad person?) in her office, stamping the file 'deceased'.  She picks up the phone and says 'Send in the new one.'  Bond intro music starts with the classic view down the gun barrel and Idris Elba walking across the screen.

This would also handily explain how 'James Bond' has gone from a blue-eyed brunette (Moore) to a dark-eyed brunette (Connery and Dalton), to a blue-eyed blonde (Craig).  It's not a name - it's a code name.  The name 'Bond, James Bond' carries with it a certain amount of clout after the agents' exploits under that name, so why not add to the mystique?

I don't see the need to "explain" it.

Leiter went from white to black (as well as using a large number of different actors) and there was no need to explain it. M went from male to female... again no need to explain it. Bond went from the literary character to an obviously Scottish amateur bodybuilder who Fleming himself didn't think was suave enough to play the role to a laconic and smug Australian to a smooth Londoner who would be stereotyped as driving a Jaguar to a Welshman to an Irishman to a guy from North West England... and it was never explained (and that's just the Eon productions). As well as the changing accents and faces the way they've played Bond has been different... sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all (with the most obvious being the more comedic and lighthearted Moore films to the more gritty and dark realism of Dalton's).

In fact I think there would actually be something slightly unpleasant about having to "explain" Bond changing now that a black man is in the role but having never felt the need to explain the many, many previous changes.

[Stella]

I don't see the need to "explain" it.

Leiter went from white to black (as well as using a large number of different actors) and there was no need to explain it. M went from male to female... again no need to explain it. Bond went from the literary character to an obviously Scottish amateur bodybuilder who Fleming himself didn't think was suave enough to play the role to a laconic and smug Australian to a smooth Londoner who would be stereotyped as driving a Jaguar to a Welshman to an Irishman to a guy from North West England... and it was never explained (and that's just the Eon productions). As well as the changing accents and faces the way they've played Bond has been different... sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all (with the most obvious being the more comedic and lighthearted Moore films to the more gritty and dark realism of Dalton's).

In fact I think there would actually be something slightly unpleasant about having to "explain" Bond changing now that a black man is in the role but having never felt the need to explain the many, many previous changes.

+1. Completely agree.

[Vorian]

I don't see the need to "explain" it.

Leiter went from white to black (as well as using a large number of different actors) and there was no need to explain it. M went from male to female... again no need to explain it. Bond went from the literary character to an obviously Scottish amateur bodybuilder who Fleming himself didn't think was suave enough to play the role to a laconic and smug Australian to a smooth Londoner who would be stereotyped as driving a Jaguar to a Welshman to an Irishman to a guy from North West England... and it was never explained (and that's just the Eon productions). As well as the changing accents and faces the way they've played Bond has been different... sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all (with the most obvious being the more comedic and lighthearted Moore films to the more gritty and dark realism of Dalton's).

In fact I think there would actually be something slightly unpleasant about having to "explain" Bond changing now that a black man is in the role but having never felt the need to explain the many, many previous changes.

I see your point there, but on a personal level I feel that strengthens the need for an official explanation rather than weakens it.

[Inkidu]

I don't see the need to "explain" it.

Leiter went from white to black (as well as using a large number of different actors) and there was no need to explain it. M went from male to female... again no need to explain it. Bond went from the literary character to an obviously Scottish amateur bodybuilder who Fleming himself didn't think was suave enough to play the role to a laconic and smug Australian to a smooth Londoner who would be stereotyped as driving a Jaguar to a Welshman to an Irishman to a guy from North West England... and it was never explained (and that's just the Eon productions). As well as the changing accents and faces the way they've played Bond has been different... sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly at all (with the most obvious being the more comedic and lighthearted Moore films to the more gritty and dark realism of Dalton's).

In fact I think there would actually be something slightly unpleasant about having to "explain" Bond changing now that a black man is in the role but having never felt the need to explain the many, many previous changes.

Actually it's sort of the unspoken rule of Bond aficionados that you do not try to explain it. You just watch the movies. That's why the archetype of Bond is more important than the individual actors. Though you do get the occasional guy whining about Craig's blond hair in general the opening scene to Casino Royale dispelled a lot of worry. 

[Oniya]

Actually, M is very clearly a title, as Dame Judi relates in Skyfall.  (Not going into detail in case someone hasn't seen it.) 

[Callie Del Noire]

From what I've heard, Daniel Craig is purportedly doing only one more Bond film after Spectre, although no idea if that's legitimate info or not.

Personally I'm of the opinion if it ain't broke don't fix it. Craig is doing very well. I like the new style of Bond and hope they continue in this style.

[Atarn]

While I like Craig, Idris would be better. One; he's a better actor. Two; he's hell of a lot more suave than the thug Craig plays. Three: The tears of prejudiced fans would be delicious <.<*happy squee*
Besides, he can't be worse than fragging Roger Moore...That guy switched between serious rape vibes and "I'm just doing the Saint all over".

[Callie Del Noire]

While I like Craig, Idris would be better. One; he's a better actor. Two; he's hell of a lot more suave than the thug Craig plays. Three: The tears of prejudiced fans would be delicious <.<*happy squee*
Besides, he can't be worse than fragging Roger Moore...That guy switched between serious rape vibes and "I'm just doing the Saint all over".

I dunno.. I think the direction of the new movies is cool. Personally.. I'd rather see Idris do his own thing that walk that road. He could make his own franchise..the guy is AWESOME  on film.

[Shjade]

Actually, M is very clearly a title, as Dame Judi relates in Skyfall.  (Not going into detail in case someone hasn't seen it.)

This.

They pretty directly DO explain M's changes. It's even present when she first appears in Goldeneye in how Bond and the new M aren't comfortable working together yet.

That said? I see no need for this to be explained. Could they? Sure. Should they? If they think it will improve the story.

Need they? No.

Whenever people bring up "BUT MUH CANON" as an argument for this, I have to ask if they were similarly upset about Moses being white in the most recent 10 Commandments movie. Or is it only one-way, this argument?

And is it only for high profile characters? I don't remember hearing anyone express major upset over Ving Rhames being cast as Buddy in Out of Sight, and Buddy was practically defined as a white redneck in the novel - that's who he was. And Ving was great in that movie.

And hey, if we're so upset about canon, why haven't I heard a huge fuss being made over how much the movies change from the Bond books every time? Is some canon more canonical than others?

But I'll set all that aside for a moment so I can ask a simple question: What's the downside to James Bond being black in a new movie?

[Atarn]

I dunno.. I think the direction of the new movies is cool. Personally.. I'd rather see Idris do his own thing that walk that road. He could make his own franchise..the guy is AWESOME  on film.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think Skyfall is my second favourite Bond movie, but I'd very much like to get me some Elba as Bond ^^. The biggest issue I have with Craig is that he plays Bond like Dalton did in his last movie, and that was about Bond on a revenge spree.

[Oniya]

Whenever people bring up "BUT MUH CANON" as an argument for this, I have to ask if they were similarly upset about Moses being white in the most recent just about every 10 Commandments movie ever.

I think that trend is continuous all the way back to Theodore Roberts (1923 release), at least for live action releases.  Val Kilmer and Christian Slater provide his voice in two of the animated versions.  I'm not sure about the guy in Moe and the Big Exit (2007)

[Shjade]

Oh, I know, Oni, but I wanted to try keeping the context more or less on par to avoid "product of their time" arguments.

[Oniya]

'Prince of Egypt' was in 1998 (Val Kilmer voiced Moses and [uncredited] God).  He also played Moses in a stage musical version of the Ten Commandments (non-Disney) in 2006.  Christian Slater's Moses role was in 2007.  So, not exactly limited to the 'quaint Eurocentrism' of Cecil B. DeMille.  There was also a TV miniseries with Burt Lancaster in the title role, but that was in the '70s when everything was weird.

[RedPhoenix]

Hello. #1 Bond Fangirl (unofficial) checking in here.

There is a not single thing about Bond's character that requires him to be white. Not one single thing. Being British, absolutely. Being a super spy, definitely. Banging hot girls and cheating death at every turn? Totally. Yes the original Bond was white, yes the Bonds that came after him were white. That was never a significant aspect of his character. You can turn him any other color and as long as he's still making quips, catching the bad guy, surviving sure death and being all smooth with a sexy lady or ten afterwards he's still James Bond.

Bond actors change. Nobody needed an explanation for him briefly being George Lazenby and then Sean Connery again (or why his personality completely changed with the actors). Or how there were two bonds for awhile as Sean Connery unofficially was Bond while Roger Moore was officially. Or what if any role Peter Sellers plays in all of this (strangely Woody Allen as Jimmy Bond Jr. or James Bond being a stickler for etiquette who lived in a mansion surrounded by lions never came up again...). Or how he went from svelte suave super spy who killed six people before breafkast to ripped thug with a badge.

Unless you are setting the movie in a time when black people weren't allowed to be British secret agents, there is no reason the character can't be black. I'm pretty sure in 2015 black guys can work for the British government.

This is why Bond was white originally, fyi. Because he HAD to be. Because of the institutional racism is the UK that prevented people of color from being significant and the fact that the perception was that people who read spy novels in the English speaking world were largely racist and Fleming pandered to that audience. This is not a legacy to embrace. If you don't believe me, consider that the Bond books were absurdly racist. That's something the franchise can lose. And not only can but should. You don't see Bond going on about how Britain is lucky it doesn't have as bad of a "black problem" as America does anymore (yes Bond says this in one of the books).

You could probably have a more meaningful discussion about whether a straight woman  or gay man or basically any non gynosexual could be Bond and whether his complete objectification of most women is inherently tied to the character or not. I personally kinda think it is.  I don't think you can have a non-womanizer Bond character. That's probably up for debate. But Bond as a black man? There's no good reason it can't happen if you're following the trend of setting Bond in a enhanced cinematic version of the present day.

And I personally like the "Bond is a title" idea, it explains how he's been active since the 60s without resorting to constantly rebooting the franchise and turning into every comic book ever (and in this 47th version of the Fantastic Four's origin story, we learn how Johnny Blaze feels about rutabagas right before the whatever-we're-calling-cosmic-rays-this-week hits the whatever-invention-they're-in-this-week type crap). Yeah the reboot to explain Daniel Craig was super lame. Super duper lame. I haven't really liked a single one of his movies tbh even though I like him as Bond.

As for Idris Elba, I'm going to have an awful hard time not seeing him as Luther, the roles are similar enough in my head. Which is a silly reason to not like someone in a role, but here we are. I'd actually like to see a younger actor in the role tbh. Craig and Elba are both in their 40s. I don't see enough movies these days to have a pick in mind though.

Also...I really liked the hollywood style bond where bad guys are are building lasers on the moon much more than this real world bond where the bad guys are ....rather legitimately mad about genuine abuses by their own governments...and I'm supposed to root against them? Uhhhh this is what I go to movies to not think about. Bring back the people who made Die Another Day please. Unrepentantly genocidal surgically altered North Korean splinter extremists with diamonds stuck to their faces using the power of a transparently metaphorically named sun-laser to burn the entire planet from outer space...that's a Bond movie villain. Not this evil cardplayer crap. Orson Welles as a fat magician was more sinister (and entertaining) in that role.

Oh, and bring back John Cleese as Q plz. Hell, cast anyone you like as bond as long as I get John Cleese back.

*goes to watch Die Another Day again*

[Deamonbane]

I say... let them finish the series that they are so obviously building on with each new installment with a single actor, Craig in this case. Why is Bond a ripped thug as Craig? Because this is a young, inexperienced Bond. Ever since Casino Royale, the movies have been an unofficial origin story for a younger Bond. Bond didn't jump out of his mother's womb already a lady killer and a suave master agent, after all.

[Shjade]

I say... let them finish the series that they are so obviously building on with each new installment with a single actor, Craig in this case. Why is Bond a ripped thug as Craig? Because this is a young, inexperienced Bond. Ever since Casino Royale, the movies have been an unofficial origin story for a younger Bond. Bond didn't jump out of his mother's womb already a lady killer and a suave master agent, after all.

Except that, if you're going to look at it that way, it makes even less sense from a "canon" standpoint.

Why?

If this is "young" Bond, and it's already been established that Bond doesn't meet the current M (Dench) as M until much later when she replaces the M he'd worked with up to that point...why the hell is Dench still M?

~Pime Taradox~

In other words: seriously it's all goofy already no matter how you look at it.

[Deamonbane]

Unless the canon that we are talking about is where the name James Bond is just a codename, in which case they retired the Brosnan Bond and replaced him with a new up and coming Agent, and now they are training him...

Or you could just...



*snickers at Pime Taradox*

[Shjade]

While possible, if that's the angle they were going for in making a Craig-specific new Bond arc, why zero mention of previous Bond's demise/retirement?

Seems like the sort of thing that would come up. (It did with M, after all.)

[Wolven Soul]

Possibly he would make a good James Bond but the character is iconic and shouldn't be messed with.  Partnering his character with Bond might work better.

I one hundred percent agree with you there.