So… are we Black-spoiting? (…Again?)

[Azy]

This is the most bullshit phrase humans have ever invented. The Mongols didn't write their history while they were winning. The North had nothing to do with the Lost Cause myth. The Hebrews lost, a lot, but produced a highly literate culture and consequently have had an outsized say in writing history, especially their own.

Afrosupremacists haven't won any battles. And yet they've got a lot of people believing Cleopatra was black.

/endrant

Your frustration and points are valid.  That being said, the world does tend to put more stock in the point of view of the victor, and sometimes facts get a little skewed.  The Lost Cause is only talked about in the American south.  I never knew anything about it until the internet became a thing and I made a friend who lived in South Carolina.  The internet has become a tool for any group to spread any kind of spun story they like. 

[Twisted Crow]

While I shrug at the "History is written by the Victor" argument as being something of a cop-out, I can't say that I don't subscribe to it on some level. I tend to prefer a slight twist on it:

"Anyone can write a history that they like -- but not all that record history are honest about it".

I feel that it sums up historical revisionism effectively enough; both in the efforts to record events or even to correct records that we feel are inconsistent.

Those in power can effectively scrub historical facts and obscure them all the time. But this happens a lot with historical entertainment pieces all the time. I am a Romance of the Three Kingdoms fan, and you wouldn't believe how many Dynasty Warriors fans I've run into looking at the key moments in the timeline and assuming how much is accurate to history. Sure, it's safe to say that most of us in that fandom don't buy into the magical aspects (Zhang Jiao doing anything, Zhuge Liang controlling the weather, etc.). The funny thing is, there are still arguments among said diehards of the fandom as to which characters were real people and which were completely or mostly fictional (Diao Chan, King Wutugu, Zhurong, etc.)

[Vekseid]

Point of order; yes, they did. The Secret History of the Mongols was written near the height of Mongol power, shortly after Temüjin's death, sometime around the acknowledgement of Ögedei as his successor by the Kurultai.

I mean your sentiment towards that idiom is not unwarranted; History is written by whoever has something to write with. But the Mongols were definitely writing history about themselves while they were on top of the world  ;D

Yeah it only took six/seven centuries for it to be translated back into Mongolian...

Regardless, the meaning of the term is what gets read. In the case of the Mongols, we only know of the histories because the people responsible for their ultimate defeat (Ming and Qing) wanted to preserve them.

[la dame en noir]

This thread is incredibly tiring because it veered away from the original point and started talking about Cleopatra

I'm a Black American woman whose line descends from those that were brought and enslaved here since the 1600s (I'm one of the fortunate ones that can trace this lineage back).

I'm seeing the word Afrocentric being thrown around and it's very clear that it is not being used correctly. Afrocentric; a focus on or influence by Africa or cultures of African origin; Afrocentric ideas, attitudes, or emphasis. It is also a movement that rose up during the 60s/70s as a way for Black Americans to find connection to their ancestral homeland and to understand that there isn't anything wrong with being of African descent. The idea is also to showcase the very real influence that African and its diaspora has had on the modern world (and in a lot of cases, the ancient world as well).

The thing you guys are thinking of is our (black American) definition of Hotep which is basically a black person that is radical, sexist, and homophobic in their thinking. Basically that we're the original Jews, the original egyptians, etc etc. A lot of harmful, stupid, and ridiculous thinking. This is a very small % of people, but because we have the internet, everyone has been exposed to their bs. There are pockets of people like this in every ethnic group, not just those that fall under the black category.

Another thing I want to touch on is this thing that, we as a people, have been using for centuries and that is "black and white". For Africans specifically, they have never in their years of habitation EVER called themselves Black or White until the influence of European colonizers, etc. There are ethnic groups - just like they are everywhere. You weren't black or white, you were Nubian, Igbo, Zulu, Amazigh, etc. Africa, before the invasion/colonization/immigration of European & Asian peoples, they have always been the most genetically diverse people on this earth. Skin colors range from lightest to the darkest, hair textures from straight to tightly coiled, and eye colors all over the spectrum.

Race is a social construct, it is not real.
https://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-02-09.htm

It was because of German Physician Johann Friedrich Blumenbach that folks started to refer to all Europeans as Caucasian simply because he liked a skull he found in the Caucasus mountains. It's because of him that there are ridiculous racial categorizations. Black wasn't just for those from subsuhara Africa - it was also used on those from South India, Melanesia, etc. This was also used as "evidence" to call Black people inferior to White people because the skull was different or because our skin was dark. We are, apparently, the less evolved version of white people. This was also a tactic used in Europe on indigenous people like the Sami for example.

I could talk about this all day, but to try and categorize Egyptians is absolutely wild because there are so many ethnic groups in Egypt.


Now for the OP's topic, its capitalism & radical liberal thinking and possibly white guilt. It's easy to exploit black Americans because many of us want to feel equal, to feel like we belong, and we are typically the loudest when it comes to injustice and representation. But we are also loud for others too. No one asked for a black Ariel, but it happened. When it happened, we all knew that poor girl was going to get hate from every corner of the goddamn earth. People tell us that we need to make original stories, but every time we do...no one goes to see them, no one reads them, etc etc. Some will even go as far as to say "I couldn't relate because the character wasn't white". But for decades black and brown people have connected to stories were 90 to 100% of the cast was white.

I have a lot of feelings on this.