Random thoughts..

[Sherona]

Ok, been told that some people actually might want to hear my random thoughts and participate in discussion of said thoughts rather then me just discussing such random nuggets only in pm.

That being said here is my first one. Now I would rather EVERYONE be comfortable posting and putting thier two cents in, and though this thread is for random silliness please try to withhold grabbing, fondling or anything else :)

anyways ok random thought number 1.

Animal rights activists. I am talking the extreme ones who run around throwing paint on fur coats, who refuse to eat anything that even comes from a living animal, and such. Hey, they have rights to their opinion.

But my question is. What makes an animal ..an animal. Ok, lets not shave poor little minxy over there cause its cruel..thats great..Ooo look at that cute little cow, dont drink their milk..whatever..but are insects animals too? Are they worth protecting?

If so..if one of them catches head lice what do they do? Washing them with the shampoo for it kills them..even combing out the nits can technically be considered killing them.


Btw, I put this in on topic becuas enever know what will run through my head >.>

For those of you reading this and saying wtf cares? sorry :P

[MadPanda]

Good question.  Wish't I had a nice, pat answer for you, but I don't.  At a half-assed guess, I'd say it's the 'cute and cuddly' factor at work, along with a certain guilt for being part of a species that does these things to other species 'just because we can'.

Most folks who seem dedicated to the preservation of the uncute, unmammalian, noncuddly species on our planet tend to be the field biologists and specialists who study and understand them (as far as I can tell, anyway).

On that general topic, the folks I'm willing to respect as regards reverence for life are the Jains (a nice little sect of Hinduism).  They're vegan-vegetarian.  They strain their drinking water so that they do not accidentally swallow an insect.  They sweep the ground before them when they walk to avoid treading on anything.  They take the sanctity of life seriously enough to put themselves through an awful lot of inconvenience on behalf of other life forms.

Do I agree with them?  No.  Do I buy the underlying theology?  Not even.  But I can respect their commitment to principle.

[Sherona]

Oh I didn't mean any disrespect at all to anyone's chosen way of life.


I was seriously curiouse. *shrugs* Just one of those things I think about.

but yaay someone posted :)

[Vekseid]

There are Vegans who believe that honeybees are slavery.

Why honey is not vegan

Insane -_- Bees are among the smartest of insects, but still...

Is there a reason this is in On Topic? :-p

[Sherona]

*grins* Because I figured rather then make new threads for any random thoughts I had I owuld just use this one..saves space. and yeah..never know what kind of random thought I have..


Some Vegans also claim that livestock and owning livestock contributes to greenhouse gases..so trying to figure out what they want people to do..kill the livestock? but that would go against most of what many vegan's believe..*shrugs* No clue.

[Vekseid]

Mmmm meat.

Anyway, if you have pervy thoughts just make a new thread in on topic or something :-p

[Sabby]

Random thought

If the Common Dolphin becomes an endangered species, what do we call it?

[Sherona]

I couldn't live without meat.


Scientifically speaking Sabbat the name wouldn't change, but I believe you stated in the chat thingy your brother suggested uncommon dolphin. An interesting joke.

[MadPanda]

Rare Dolphin?
Medium Rare Dolphin?
Very Rare Dolphin?

Hmmmm.  Species, the CCG...

[Sherona]

*grins* Extra rare for me please..

somehow I dont think PETA would appreciate this joke :/

[Sabby]

Somehow, I don't PETA has a sense of humor on any matter.

...wait, one of my bestest friends is PETA. If she ever gets in my freezer she'll gouge my eyes out with soybean immitation forks.

[Sherona]

I do respect PETA's opinions..but they are just opinions..and yet another group that has been known to impose thier opinions on others. Not all of PETA is like that, I know a few people who are associated with that group and have yet to lecture me on my love of meat or the fact that I go to a slaughter house routinely without batting an eye (it really isnt that cruel)..though I would never go so far as discuss my chicken recipe's with them :P

[MadPanda]

(nodnods)

[Cherri Tart]

*Smiles* this isn't meant as an attack or such, because i eat meat as well, although it tends to be more like twice a week rather then every day, but whether or not it's cruel, i still don't want someone bopping me on the head and after making me stand around for weeks at a time so they can eat me for dinner :)  oh, and i know some animal rights people, and you'd be surprised how funny and fun they can be - only over certain things, they really don't see the humor in it - passion takes over for something they consider morally wrong. 

[Sherona]

not taken as an attack.

My words weren't meant to be an attack on animal rights activists either. Just like in all things there ae those who take things to extreme. While I don't see anyone ever lining humans up to stand around for weeks at a time to bop them on the head and eat them, I can almost see that argument EXCEPT for this.

Its Nature of things. If we didn't go out and kill antelope or deer then something else is going to for food. Wolves, lions, hyenas..all predators. Also hunters keep things in balance, as it is a delicate ecosystem we live in. We take out one predator and one group of prey is going to become over abundant and that will cause ripple effects.

I am not saying go out and shoot a bunch of condors, or bald eagles, or other endangered species..but eating a cow or two?

[MadPanda]

Methinks the problem is that that's what the cow is for--it exists soley to become food...it doesn't get to roam free or anything like that (so the thinking goes) but is instead penned up until someone wants to eat it.  Minks on farms raised to provide fur aren't minks free to be minks.

However, as you say, it's a rough, rough, rough world out there, and in the 'state of nature' the cow would still be so much lunch on the hoof.   :)

One does notice that nobody seems to complain that the common housecat is likewise being exploited by humanity, kept around sheerly to provide for our emotional needs of kinship, with no regard for the personhood or natural needs of the feline race as a whole...

(Ooops!  I better cut the satirical tone!  The Boy is looking up at me, demanding to be fed, and the Grrl is glowering again.  She doesn't like it when I disrespect Teh Kitteh.   :) )

[Sherona]

Interesting point Panda. I hadn't even thought of that argument. True, I am so going to have to look up the history of cows. I mean unless they are genetically engineered or were crossbred from wild animals then at one point in history they HAD to have been 'wild'.

But yeah, if all the ranchers out there were to open their gates and allow all the cattle to run free..they would just be eaten..I have a not-so-close neighbor who runs a cattle ranch..coyotes routinely pick off a steer here, a hiefer there..

[Cherri Tart]

*nods*  just like in every other facuet of like, those who take the extreme route colour things for those who are less extreme - it's like the religous right representing the catholic religion, when most catholics are fairly reasonable people.  and yes, i do understand that it's nature - and nature and be beautiful and full of wonder and also harsh and cruel - i mean, ever watch a hyena take down it's prey?  or what about a spider who poisons it's victem then keeps it alive and wrapped in a web until it devours it.  I think that for PETA, mostly it's the conditions that animals are kept in, and believe me, it might not be the norm, but i've heard enough horror stories about puppy farms and such to know that their are cruel uncaring people out there who treat animals very inhumanly. 

and, just food for thought, it's sad that we, as a race, treat our own species this way all too often as well... at least, a slaughter house has a purpose, whether you like it or not - Darfur, the holocaust, ethnic cleansing...  *snuggles Kittens*  and really, i think that cats exploit us, other then the other way around...  i mean, if i could have someone pet me and feed me and play with me if only i'd keep them company when i felt like it?  *big smile*  where do i sign up?

[MadPanda]

See, this is why wild animals in zoos (assuming enrichment activities galore) are probably not miserable!  Someone feeds them and takes care of them and plays with them and they get to see all the humans behind those bars over there...   ;D

[Sabby]

I'm pretty sure I saw something on KFC's 'Chicken Sweeper'

its a 'humane' method of getting chickens into their cages at incredible speeds. Its, actually, a giant street sweeper/vacuum cleaner that sucks in about 30 chickens a second.

[Sherona]

*nods*  just like in every other facuet of like, those who take the extreme route colour things for those who are less extreme - it's like the religous right representing the catholic religion, when most catholics are fairly reasonable people.  and yes, i do understand that it's nature - and nature and be beautiful and full of wonder and also harsh and cruel - i mean, ever watch a hyena take down it's prey?  or what about a spider who poisons it's victem then keeps it alive and wrapped in a web until it devours it.  I think that for PETA, mostly it's the conditions that animals are kept in, and believe me, it might not be the norm, but i've heard enough horror stories about puppy farms and such to know that their are cruel uncaring people out there who treat animals very inhumanly. 

and, just food for thought, it's sad that we, as a race, treat our own species this way all too often as well... at least, a slaughter house has a purpose, whether you like it or not - Darfur, the holocaust, ethnic cleansing...  *snuggles Kittens*  and really, i think that cats exploit us, other then the other way around...  i mean, if i could have someone pet me and feed me and play with me if only i'd keep them company when i felt like it?  *big smile*  where do i sign up?

Agreed that some places and farms do treat their animals badly. But just like the extreme fanaticals of animal rights activists are rare, so are these. Most slaughter houses, farms, and other places that raise animals strictly fro food or products are humane, and not that bad.

ndeed it is the loudest most fanatical people that get the most attention.

[MadPanda]

On the other hand, the most humane dairy farms in the world have gone high-tech!  The cows get to decide when they get milked--the entire system is automated: cow steps in, pumps are laser-guided onto the teats, milking happens, cow steps out.  The results are said to be pretty impressive.

Very happy cows, for one thing.  Definitely less stressed out.

[Sherona]

"The best cheese comes from happy cows...happy cows come from California"

Sorry >.> Your post reminded me of that commercial for some reason :D

Technology and high tech gizmo's make me suspicious to the extreme..I am still unsure about this thing called the Interweb..:P

[MadPanda]

Yeah, those are some funny commercials...  :) 

The problem with technology is that the marketing people invariably sell every advance as a 'miracle of science' even as the engineers are trying to work out all the bugs.  :)  Call it a collision between expectations and performance.

Hmm.  That explains a lot...

[Sherona]

The true problem with Technology is the complexity of the gadgets. The average american probably could not tell you how their cellphone work. If they took it apart, do you think they would be able to recognize every tiny piece of equipment? Doubtful, thus this allows for all sorts of conspiracy theories ranging from Cellphones causing Brain cancer, to the various government organization are in cohoots with the celllphone suppliers to implant tiny listening devices.

Frankly, anything that can make it so easy to pinpoint my location wtihin a few dozen miles make me uneasy..

[MadPanda]

Ah, yes, the ol' Black Box effect.  :)

Look at it this way--the problem is not whether you can be located within a few feet.  There are times when this is a GOOD thing (say, in a medical emergency).  The problem is a) who can do this, b) why they might want to, and c) what they could do with the information.

You've heard the old saw about 'if you have nothing to hide, then there's no reason for concern about your privacy'?  The flipside of that is that YOU do not get to decide whether or not you have anything to hide!

Who watches the Watchmen, indeed.

:P

In fairness to the Thought Police, though, keep in mind how much it must suck, getting to know someone very, very well through surveilance and yet never being able to admit or demonstrate any developing sympathy.  Sort of like getting really attached to a character in a soap opera, only with worse consequences.

[Sherona]

I never did believe the old adage of "who cares if you have nothing to hide" That just opens up a whole new can of worms. Indeed who decides who has something to hide or not? I, personally, have nothing to hide that would get me into legal troubles..perhaps a few social issues if someone were to be able to develop tech that would read my mind and find out exactly how I feel about society. Otherwise I really have nothing to hide, but the point of the matter is what happens if something happens and there was this massive take over of the government by some of the religious MAJOR fanatics (I am talking the major ones who bomb abortion clinics and beat up people they suspect might be homosexual..not the normal every day really great ones..)

That could mean that I would need to hide..however unlikely that is, I do like to be prepared, and plan for these little what ifs...welcome to the disturbed mind of Sherona :P

[MadPanda]

You mean domestic terrorists?  Yeah, I know who you mean.  (shakes head)  Nice to see DHS is so concerned about the internal threat, huh?

Stay alert.  Trust no one.  Keep your taser handy.

[Sherona]

Domestic terrorists, those sweet old ladies that make you feel all squirmy when they look at you really hard..

[MadPanda]

Hell's Grannies?  Senile Delinquents?  (has Monty Python flashback)

[Sherona]

Since I started talking to people online I hear so much about this Monty Python..and I have no clue who he is. I keep getting this image of this HUGE python in a cheap toupee..

[MadPanda]

Oh, dear.  Have you at least seen the Princess Bride?

( ??? :o )

[Sherona]

nope don't think so. I think I am the only one who doesn't know who this guy (or is he a character?) is. I just typically do some random remark when someone mentions him like a "Grin" or a "smile".

[MadPanda]

Aiyaaaahhh...

Monty Python was a Brit skit comedy troupe (consisting of Eric Idle, Terry Jones, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Michael Palin, and an American named Terry Gilliam).  They did a couple of seasons on BBC and a few movies. The humor can be an acquired taste, admittedly.

[Avi]

*starts a petition to get Sherona to watch Monty Python* :P

[Sherona]

oh so its not just one person. I had gathered it was a comic thing, just thought perhaps it was a single person.

[HairyHeretic]

Nope, comedy show, and a rather deranged one :)

I can heartily recommend the Holy Grail and Life of Brian movies, as well as the Flying Circus tv show.

[MadPanda]

(snicker)
Ah, yes, Life of Brian!

[Sherona]

Random thought:

When did turkey become the traditional main dish at thanksgiving(at least in teh US during US turkey day)? I know more and more people are drifting away from this bird, going with ham, or vegetarian stuff (butternut squash for the win) but still its..a huge tradition. Just wondering why :)

[MadPanda]

Right around the First World War, I think it was.  Before that, turkey on Thanksgiving was mostly a New England thing.

Holiday meals mean a lot to soldiers, for some funny reason.  Can't think why  :P  And after the war, the habit just kind of spread when all the draftees mustered out.

Doubtlessly someone will find a bit of documentation with a better answer for you  ;D

[Sherona]

*grins* I will go find a few of the sites I had found the answers on. Was just something I found interesting, figured might spark more conversation :)

I personally dislike most turkey preparation..but a good deep fried turkey is just tops :)

[MadPanda]

Well, somewhere out there is a free little demo wargame involving some poor putz named Mordecai, whose thankless task it is to bag a turkey for dinner...

http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/files/TurkeyShoot.pdf

Folks forget that the wild turkey is not a stupid bird by any stretch of the imagination.  They're also not exactly canaries--in the neighborhood of sixty pounds (call it, oh, twenty five kilos) or so.  Hard to miss a target that big, even with a smoothbore musket.   :P

[Sherona]

*nodnods* Just the other day I was driving to an appointment and I saw about 5-6 wild turkeys in a field near my house. Beautiful creatures really.

[MadPanda]

Unfortunately, in Turkey Shoot they are not allowed to return fire...

"Hi, I'm with the NRA...Nature's Revenge Association."  BLAM!!!

(see also Deer Avenger, Deer Avenger 2, Deer Avenger 3D...)

[Sherona]

*pictures a turkey with a AK-47, black paint beneath its eyes, and a red bandana Rambo-esque*

[MadPanda]

(Deer Avenger, by the by, was a parody game of all those Deer Hunter titles.  The Deer got to return fire with an M-16, Bazooka, or a slingshot firing fresh deer droppings.  You got your choice of three locations--Connecticut, Minnesota, or West Virginia--and a number of interesting human targets, one of whom looked quite a bit like a young Charleton Heston.)

(The 'hunter calls' were particularly entertaining.  One was a sultry female giggle followed by 'I'm naked!  And I have a pizza!' )

[Sherona]

*laughs* Sounds very entertaining hehe

[MadPanda]

Yep.  Definitely worth it for the one-liners.

"Come on, magic circle, find me a hunter..."

[Lancis]

very entertaining and of course you can never go wrong with leisure suit larry either!

[Sakujo]

Ok, been told that some people actually might want to hear my random thoughts and participate in discussion of said thoughts rather then me just discussing such random nuggets only in pm.

That being said here is my first one. Now I would rather EVERYONE be comfortable posting and putting thier two cents in, and though this thread is for random silliness please try to withhold grabbing, fondling or anything else :)

anyways ok random thought number 1.

Animal rights activists. I am talking the extreme ones who run around throwing paint on fur coats, who refuse to eat anything that even comes from a living animal, and such. Hey, they have rights to their opinion.

But my question is. What makes an animal ..an animal. Ok, lets not shave poor little minxy over there cause its cruel..thats great..Ooo look at that cute little cow, dont drink their milk..whatever..but are insects animals too? Are they worth protecting?

If so..if one of them catches head lice what do they do? Washing them with the shampoo for it kills them..even combing out the nits can technically be considered killing them.


Btw, I put this in on topic becuas enever know what will run through my head >.>

For those of you reading this and saying wtf cares? sorry :P

Yay! A topic I can post in before I'm verified or whatever!

You bring up a really great question, honestly, when asking what defines an "animal" for protection purposes to these groups, because it's essentially like asking what a "person" is. If they mean all life that has senses, for example, that's an extremely broad definition, and, by that logic, I wonder what the smallest thing to be protected would be. What counts as senses?

Personally, I define animals in that very broad sense, anything that has senses and nourishes itself (This, I think, excludes plants).

I'm also someone who answers the personhood question by saying that a person is one who nourishes itself, has senses, feels pain and pleasure, and has perceptible rational thought. Rational thought, in this case, means something beyond mere motor reactions or copying behavior. In other words, something another can identify as actually thinking and seeming alive. (That is to say that computers as we know them are excluded, because it would be irrational for us to believe they felt pain until they became more advanced.)

This definition excludes some young "human DNA" beings, and includes some higher animals aside of humans.

Of course, this is all basic ethical philosophy. :D