Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

[Callie Del Noire]

I like Trieste's crusade better.  Are we talking beers, wines, or liqueurs?

I'd whole heartedly support it.. but keep her away from my Maker's Mark.

[Sarena]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/

Link to an article, I have been staying clear of the news this weekend because the media are a bunch of scumbags and I am not ignoring what happened...I don't want to be reminded every 5 minutes how many children were killed, or see the interviews of children (and adults/families etc) who will be forever scarred by this tragedy.

Then you hear that Westboro plans on protesting...then Anymous kicks in...(You guys can decide how you feel about it all)

PLEASE NOTE:  What I am about to say is NOT directed at Aiden or anyone else here.

As a Christian who believes in God and believes that Jesus died for my sins, LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, Westboro Baptist Church and their "protests" do NOT represent what Christianity is about.  Neither are the talking heads that will try to use this tragedy to further their agenda, whether it be gun control or God in public schools, an accurate representation of Christianity.  This is NOT what Christianity is about and it sickens me in ways I can never explain to see this. 

My heart breaks for the families that lost loved ones in the Connecticut shooting and the stabbing in China that was linked earlier in this thread.  My heart will never understand how a person can pick up a weapon and take the life of an innocent child.

As a mother, I have hugged my children a little bit tighter this weekend and prayed a little harder when I took them to school today.  As a mother, I am thankful and grateful for teachers like Victoria Soto.  She is one of the ones I choose to remember, not the gunman. 

[Oniya]

As a Christian who believes in God and believes that Jesus died for my sins, LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, Westboro Baptist Church and their "protests" do NOT represent what Christianity is about.  Neither are the talking heads that will try to use this tragedy to further their agenda, whether it be gun control or God in public schools, an accurate representation of Christianity.  This is NOT what Christianity is about and it sickens me in ways I can never explain to see this. 

I'm pretty sure that damned few people associate the Westboros with any branch of Christ's teachings.  Even on Facebook, that hive of scum and villainy, I've never seen anyone speak out in their favor.

[Branwen]

Pointless Digression, did you make it through the day okay?  Are you coping as well as you want to?

[Pointless Digression]

I did, actually. I had to put on my discipline pants 4th period when two boys decided to start a little shoving contest outside my classroom door, and just the normalcy of that kind of snapped me out of my funk.

I'm not saying that I couldn't use a drink right about now, but I made it through the day, kept my shit together, and managed to teach the kids how to make food webs.

[Branwen]

I'm so proud of you!  Good job!  And the kids absolutely benefited from your example and approach to things.  If I taught next door to you, I'd give you the biggest hug right now.

[Oniya]

I did, actually. I had to put on my discipline pants 4th period when two boys decided to start a little shoving contest outside my classroom door, and just the normalcy of that kind of snapped me out of my funk.

I'm not saying that I couldn't use a drink right about now, but I made it through the day, kept my shit together, and managed to teach the kids how to make food webs.

Food webs?  Does that involve spaghetti noodles and string cheese?  ;D

[Iniquitous]

Anyway, new evidence has been found that the mother of Adam Lanze was a gun afficionado (sp) and brought her sons out to shoot I think the article said within the last 4 years. So the mother is at fault as well.

As a person who owns and enjoys firearms as well as firmly believes in the 2nd Amendment, this statement makes me twitch. Violently. The mother is most assuredly NOT at fault just because she owned guns and may or may not have taken her son to the gun range. I cannot even believe someone would blame a victim for the crime!

I am about sick of seeing people scream for more gun control laws, scream that it's the guns that's the problem and now blame a victim when the problem is not guns at all. It's our society's refusal to treat mental illness as a disease, it's our society's refusal to accept that everyone deserves to have access to care - all forms of medical care, it's our society's shunning of those that have mental disorders that's the flipping problem.

[Pointless Digression]

Food webs?  Does that involve spaghetti noodles and string cheese?  ;D

Nah. Just extruding silk strands from their spinnerets and weaving them into the prerequisite shapes.

[Trieste]

You... have a class full of spiderlets? That must be adorable!

[Sho]

As a person who owns and enjoys firearms as well as firmly believes in the 2nd Amendment, this statement makes me twitch. Violently. The mother is most assuredly NOT at fault just because she owned guns and may or may not have taken her son to the gun range. I cannot even believe someone would blame a victim for the crime!

I am about sick of seeing people scream for more gun control laws, scream that it's the guns that's the problem and now blame a victim when the problem is not guns at all. It's our society's refusal to treat mental illness as a disease, it's our society's refusal to accept that everyone deserves to have access to care - all forms of medical care, it's our society's shunning of those that have mental disorders that's the flipping problem.

I think the general idea isn't so much (at least as I've understood it) that she took her child shooting - I think plenty of people recognize that as a perfectly reasonable past-time in a neighborhood where hunting is prevalent. I think the major issue is that she took her mentally ill and aggressive child shooting. Not to say that all mentally ill people should be locked away from firearms, but...if your child is aggressive, unstable (which, from the 'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother' post I'm assuming is the sort of child Adam Lanza actually was), and prone to fits of rage...then you don't teach him weapons skills that can only aid him. If he already doesn't know how to control himself, why have him armed and out of control? It seems like a serious lack of judgement on the mother's part - that being said, there's no excuse for what happened to her.

Also, mental illness treatments and their availability to families needs to be increased. Obviously. I'm not saying that that isn't the case - I think it needs to happen, and I hope that it does, in a huge way.

Though, as far as the whole gun control issue...I understand rifles (hunting, protection from wildlife, etc) and I understand handguns (self-defense, home protection, etc.). I fail to understand how, in any concievable way, a semi-automatic weapon or any weapon that has one of those huge clips with more than...say, ten...bullets is necessary. If you can't hit whatever you're shooting at with ten bullets, you're probably dead anyway. It feels dangerous and unnecessary to me to have weapons that large on the streets, so I do agree with the new bill one of the senators (it's a woman...can't remember her name) is proposing where large-clip guns and semi-automatic weapons would be proactively banned.

Anyways. Not to digress too much.

This whole thing has me sick - I haven't even been able to write out a coherent thought until now. It horrifies me that this could have happened to so many people, particularly children who had barely had the chance to live. Now their families will be grieving over Christmas, and then to think of those teachers sacrificing themselves...there aren't even words for it. I'm just glad to see that teachers like Pointless Digression are helping people make sense of this tragedy.

[Ariel]

As a person who owns and enjoys firearms as well as firmly believes in the 2nd Amendment, this statement makes me twitch. Violently. The mother is most assuredly NOT at fault just because she owned guns and may or may not have taken her son to the gun range. I cannot even believe someone would blame a victim for the crime!

I am about sick of seeing people scream for more gun control laws, scream that it's the guns that's the problem and now blame a victim when the problem is not guns at all. It's our society's refusal to treat mental illness as a disease, it's our society's refusal to accept that everyone deserves to have access to care - all forms of medical care, it's our society's shunning of those that have mental disorders that's the flipping problem.

Like they say, guns don't hurt people, people hurt people..

[Vekseid]

I have removed a post a reply dragging religion into this discussion. I'd like the politics (gun control discussion) to stop too, please. Start another thread in PROC if that is what you want.

Thank you.

[Sabby]

Sorry, I saw other posts and links to news stories like this, I thought it would be okay.

[Vekseid]

It got moved to B&U and then Off Topic because we wanted to not have that in this thread.

Thank you.

[Sabby]

I meant here o.o Scroll up a few posts and there's a link to a Westboro story... I saw that and assumed it was allowed. I was wrong. My bad Dx

As for the story itself... I haven't heard much, just reactions through Twitter, and a lot of conflicting stories as to the why.

[Vekseid]

I know.

Stop.

It is not a question. It is not an invitation to debate.

It is a requirement stated by the owner of a community who appreciates the need for simple expressions of respect for the dead.

I find it annoying enough that the killer's name is even mentioned. Some discussion is going to happen. I acknowledge this. You chose to cross a line with the tone of your post and I do not appreciate that. Your hostility to religion in general has been noted elsewhere. It does not belong in Off Topic at all, much less this thread.

Enough.

Thank you.

[Trieste]

I think there is a miscommunication between the two of you that needs to be taken up in PM, please.  :-\

Regarding the 'why'... you know, the Aurora shooter is still alive and they still haven't gotten a solid 'why' out of him. I doubt they'll get a 'why' out of the dead shooter in this case. I'm not entirely sure it matters - knowing why doesn't particularly help anything, and I'm not sure it will help prevent future incidents. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

But the more this happens, the less I find myself concerned with the why, and I find myself more concerned with how. More specifically, how in the world someone can be prevented from forcing their way into another school. -_-

[gaggedLouise]

I think there is a miscommunication between the two of you that needs to be taken up in PM, please.  :-\

Regarding the 'why'... you know, the Aurora shooter is still alive and they still haven't gotten a solid 'why' out of him. I doubt they'll get a 'why' out of the dead shooter in this case. I'm not entirely sure it matters - knowing why doesn't particularly help anything, and I'm not sure it will help prevent future incidents. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

But the more this happens, the less I find myself concerned with the why, and I find myself more concerned with how. More specifically, how in the world someone can be prevented from forcing their way into another school. -_-

Surely not by setting up armed police and turnstile gates around every school to make sure guns don't get in? (I've seen that kind of thing being used at schools in immigrant suburbs in France: it might work but it also makes the school feel akin to a jail).

After all, even if it became harder to bring in major firearms, some jerks would still be able to bring in bombs or pistols.

[Sabby]

I remember reading the guy just blew out a window and strode in. I'm not sure there's much metal detectors and frisks and the like can do for that kind of thing. Those are all preventative measures.

[Oniya]

The little Oni's school has ID badges that are checked when they walk in.  The doors are locked, and anyone visiting the school at other than the normal admission and dismissal times (when there's a faculty member on duty) has to ring a security buzzer and get let in by the office.  There's a policeman - I'm not sure if he's on-duty, off-duty, or former - on the grounds at all times.  The students are not allowed to carry bags with them to class, with the exception of mesh gym bags (that can be seen through).  I'm going to have to check again on the purse policy, since she's getting to the age when some of her classmates may be reaching menarche - I'd rather not put her through the contortions of getting excused to the bathroom, discovering she needs supplies, and having to go back to her locker (the gym locker room has a vending machine, but not the regular ladies' room) and then back to the bathroom.  If she can't have even a purse with her...

[Sabby]

Geez... that seems bleak but also kind of necessary.

[Ariel]

The little Oni's school has ID badges that are checked when they walk in.  The doors are locked, and anyone visiting the school at other than the normal admission and dismissal times (when there's a faculty member on duty) has to ring a security buzzer and get let in by the office.  There's a policeman - I'm not sure if he's on-duty, off-duty, or former - on the grounds at all times.  The students are not allowed to carry bags with them to class, with the exception of mesh gym bags (that can be seen through).  I'm going to have to check again on the purse policy, since she's getting to the age when some of her classmates may be reaching menarche - I'd rather not put her through the contortions of getting excused to the bathroom, discovering she needs supplies, and having to go back to her locker (the gym locker room has a vending machine, but not the regular ladies' room) and then back to the bathroom.  If she can't have even a purse with her...

Has it always been like that, or just recently?

[gaggedLouise]

Oniya - I can see the logic for sure, but it's depressing if it has to be like that. When I was in eq.of high school we'd relocate gym classes during the warmer season to an outdoor field/amateur athletics place in another part of the city, a mile from the school, as did (and still do) many other schools in town. We'd ride there on bike and though the place was booked for school use at those times and ringed by some lightweight fences, anyone of the students' families could have come in if something urgent had happened, there were no formal checkpoints. Technically anyone fit enough could have climbed in over one of the higher fences at the back with a gun too, there was no patrolling around there. It's too bad if kids can't even spend time in the open air sometimes during a school day, outside of the school grounds, without being strictly guarded.

I remember reading the guy just blew out a window and strode in. I'm not sure there's much metal detectors and frisks and the like can do for that kind of thing. Those are all preventative measures.

Exactly!

[Ariel]

It's too bad if kids can't even spend time in the open air sometimes during a school day, outside of the school grounds, without being strictly guarded.

Our kids can't go anywhere without the constant threat of danger hanging over their heads.