(WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?

[Saerrael]

*is a healer*

HC pugs...
Fully stamina gemmed/ enchanted tank.
Tank with greens and/ or dps items (the hell are you doing in a Troll HC?)
DPS that stands next to me and drops their agro on me.
Getting agro out of the blue and the dps stood next to me not doing a thing (Not my job, I'm dps, not the taaaaank)
Dps that signs up as tank for the insta-queue.

PvP BG pugs.
Full team trying to down a dps that is being healed by a healer stood next to it. >.>
Getting killed while there are at least two peelers around me (who then ask me in whisper why I wasn't healing them)
Base zerging without leaving defence behind, or even waiting for the base to get, you know, capped in the first place.
Getting sapped in a group of friendlies who do not even attempt to find the rogue.

'Heal me, noob.'
'Healer asleep?'
'Why are you OOM?'
'L2P, healer.'
'gtg' (or the disappearing tank mid-pull/ fight)

[Alucarddalv]

If the tank dies THAT fast it's more likely the tank being undergeared, pulling too much or not using mitigative/controlling abilities pre-emptively than the healer's fault, to be honest. Tanks who are properly prepared for the content shouldn't explode.

Still those kinds of people are annoying, I agree. Didn't see much of the other kinds. Occasionally had people gripe about my dps as a rogue in heroics, but some of the heroics are just anti-melee dps in general. The crystal cave place, for instance. All those mobile boss fights and target-switching mechanics and idle dps periods. Crappy place for a rogue to try to shine.

I run a full raid geared Pally tank and I have exploded in 5 secs because even using my Cd's because my healer wasn't paying attention...okay so maybe 5 secs is a gross under estimate but you get the idea.

Also i have tried those channels and groups and they tend to not know what they are doing more then the ones I pick up from trade. That or 90% of them are decked in pvp gear to raise their Item Level.

[Saerrael]

Alucarddalv, make a channel/ group (post about it on your realm's forum). Use DKP in your raids.

[Callie Del Noire]

If the tank dies THAT fast it's more likely the tank being undergeared, pulling too much or not using mitigative/controlling abilities pre-emptively than the healer's fault, to be honest. Tanks who are properly prepared for the content shouldn't explode.

Still those kinds of people are annoying, I agree. Didn't see much of the other kinds. Occasionally had people gripe about my dps as a rogue in heroics, but some of the heroics are just anti-melee dps in general. The crystal cave place, for instance. All those mobile boss fights and target-switching mechanics and idle dps periods. Crappy place for a rogue to try to shine.

It was the Lost City.. the guy groused about me the WHOLE way thru, trying to rush us because he needed the end boss.. the group leader booted him from the group AT the end boss.

[Saerrael]

It was the Lost City.. the guy groused about me the WHOLE way thru, trying to rush us because he needed the end boss.. the group leader booted him from the group AT the end boss.

That's just an evil kick :/

[Alucarddalv]

Alucarddalv, make a channel/ group (post about it on your realm's forum). Use DKP in your raids.

I refuse to use DKP I hate that system of loot I have a modified master loot that states if you win somethign and roll on another piece it will get passed to a person that hasn't won an item. I also have it set up so that if you have epic gear and the other person is in worse gear then you they get priority. At least that was what I prefer.

[Callie Del Noire]

I refuse to use DKP I hate that system of loot I have a modified master loot that states if you win somethign and roll on another piece it will get passed to a person that hasn't won an item. I also have it set up so that if you have epic gear and the other person is in worse gear then you they get priority. At least that was what I prefer.

My guild has a Need, Greed Rule..with the modifier that if you got a piece of gear you're out of the rolls till everyone who can need the gear has gotten something.

Off spec is 'greed'.

Example. We had 3 plate wearers.. (DK, Ret Pali (me) and Warrior).. Shield drops that the warrior already has.. so I can roll on greed. (for off spec). The two tanks roll on plate items that drop that are tanking.. I can roll if they pass .

It's done failry well. Of course our lack of Shaman/Hunters makes a LOT of agi mail/weapons go to raid rolls for selling/de

[Saerrael]

I refuse to use DKP I hate that system of loot I have a modified master loot that states if you win somethign and roll on another piece it will get passed to a person that hasn't won an item. I also have it set up so that if you have epic gear and the other person is in worse gear then you they get priority. At least that was what I prefer.

I mean, if you use DKP, you will have returning players.
*shrugs* I really do not get why people hate the DKP system so much. It's quite fair (for returning raiders)

[Callie Del Noire]

I mean, if you use DKP, you will have returning players.
*shrugs* I really do not get why people hate the DKP system so much. It's quite fair (for returning raiders)

The problem is it takes time to build up enough points to get stuff.

[Saerrael]

The problem is it takes time to build up enough points to get stuff.

Which would be a reason for raiders to return.

I have a question is it hard for the rest of you guys to pug decent raid groups for end game content? I never seem to be able to find a competent group, and I never seem to find players i can get to come back on a consistent basis.

I'm not saying it's even remotely handy for casual raiders, but if Alucard wants a raiding group (without setting up a raiding guild), DKP can help him to maintain his raiders.
That's all.
I'm not attacking the Need/ Greed system.

[Alucarddalv]

The other problem with it is if you have some one that is fairly well geared they can horde their points and then just completely out bid anyone when the new raid content drops and the rest of the group has been gearing up. It is also not fair to a person that you pull in only every once and a while. I just don't like the idea in general especially since I have known some real dicks that an technically use the gear and will roll on it just to roll even if they have no real intention of using it. With Dk if they wanted to be an ass and had lots of points they could just out right buy it.

[TheGlyphstone]

The other problem with it is if you have some one that is fairly well geared they can horde their points and then just completely out bid anyone when the new raid content drops and the rest of the group has been gearing up. It is also not fair to a person that you pull in only every once and a while. I just don't like the idea in general especially since I have known some real dicks that an technically use the gear and will roll on it just to roll even if they have no real intention of using it. With Dk if they wanted to be an ass and had lots of points they could just out right buy it.

The guild I raided with didn't have that problem, because each tier of content had its own DKP pool that was tracked independently.

[Saerrael]

The other problem with it is if you have some one that is fairly well geared they can horde their points and then just completely out bid anyone when the new raid content drops and the rest of the group has been gearing up. It is also not fair to a person that you pull in only every once and a while. I just don't like the idea in general especially since I have known some real dicks that an technically use the gear and will roll on it just to roll even if they have no real intention of using it. With Dk if they wanted to be an ass and had lots of points they could just out right buy it.

Using DKP to ninja gear, is still ninjaing. People like that should have no raiding spot.

The guild I raided with didn't have that problem, because each tier of content had its own DKP pool that was tracked independently.

Agreed.

[Alucarddalv]

Really DKP just seems like a bigger pain in the ass. I like the modified loot master. Need before greed and once you win a piece you can't win another unless your the only one to roll on it.

[TheGlyphstone]

Really DKP just seems like a bigger pain in the ass. I like the modified loot master. Need before greed and once you win a piece you can't win another unless your the only one to roll on it.

So what's your incentive to raid, get your item, then not show up for a few weeks instead of watching everyone else get their gear? There's no loot system that's asshat-proof, basically.

[Callie Del Noire]

So what's your incentive to raid, get your item, then not show up for a few weeks instead of watching everyone else get their gear? There's no loot system that's asshat-proof, basically.

Had a few of those show up in the old days.. they'd game the system we had in place sicne they had the coin for stuff like Greater Resist potions, and the rest of the goods (we're talking....waaaaay back when my guild used DKP.. vanilla WoW days)

They'd come in.. slip in the cap for gear points (pots, food, ect) get their gear.. then drop out of the raid to the next week.

[Alucarddalv]

My incentive to raid is to have fun plain as that. having to keep track of a lot of extra shit from raid to raid is a pain in the ass. The loot system I have seen used and like only works for the current raid week and resets the same day as the raids. I also raid for the progression I start to get frustrated and lose my desire to raid after the 50th or so attempt on a boss with no progress( IE not moving to the next phase or staying stuck in the same phase.)

[TheGlyphstone]

That wasn't a 'you' specifically, it was meant as a general 'you', regarding the people who would, under traditional DKP, theoretically only ninja stuff and abuse the system.

[Callie Del Noire]

We (my guild) got the first boss on BoT down and did an hour or so trash run into the flame lands for rep.

[meikle]

Maybe it's necessary if you're doing 25 man raids ... if you're doing 10 man raids, N/G is a perfectly serviceable system.  Don't play the game with people who are lame.

When I used to raid, that's how my guild did it.  If you felt you were getting screwed by bad dice, "We'll be back next week" was the response.  (Then again, the people I played with were interested in progress more than their own ilvl, so seeing people hog loot was never much of an issue.)

[Shjade]

That's just an evil kick :/

Nah, that seems like a justified-if-wicked kick.

An evil kick is being the lone pug rogue in what's clearly a 4-man premade group including a feral druid, out-performing said druid on the damage meter (Only notable because they gave me shit for not beating his damage on the first boss - you know, the one where the melee have to keep running away from the boss to avoid getting killed so a mutilate rogue's poison will keep dropping off and require being reapplied to do most of my damage? After that boss I went into tryhard mode and stayed at #1 the rest of the instance by a fair margin.), then getting kicked before the last boss because the guild group wants to make sure their druid gets the one item I was in H-Lost City to get in the first place.

Yeah, that happened. :|

I mean, fuck, at least let me stay for the boss to get my judgement points if you're going to screw me on the drops.

[Saerrael]

Nah, that seems like a justified-if-wicked kick.

An evil kick is being the lone pug rogue in what's clearly a 4-man premade group including a feral druid, out-performing said druid on the damage meter (Only notable because they gave me shit for not beating his damage on the first boss - you know, the one where the melee have to keep running away from the boss to avoid getting killed so a mutilate rogue's poison will keep dropping off and require being reapplied to do most of my damage? After that boss I went into tryhard mode and stayed at #1 the rest of the instance by a fair margin.), then getting kicked before the last boss because the guild group wants to make sure their druid gets the one item I was in H-Lost City to get in the first place.

Yeah, that happened. :|

I mean, fuck, at least let me stay for the boss to get my judgement points if you're going to screw me on the drops.

Yeah, kinda meant for the points (valor, if it's your first seven randoms).

[Shjade]

Valor, whatever. ;p

I got what you meant, but that guy brought it on himself by being obnoxious. I brought it on myself by having the bad luck of getting random queued with douches. :|

[Alucarddalv]

yeah I have tanked an entire Heroic ZA bear run only to get kicked just before the chest so that they could bring in their own tank...I am guessing to get him the bear mount. It was the first time I had been able to actually get to the boss in time too.

[Callie Del Noire]

I had one guy whisper me not to MD to him.. he was a mage. Apparently the last hunter he'd paired with would MD to him 'by accident'. I've heard all manners of stories from folks.