The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

[CaptainNexus616]

Well it cant get much worse for X-Men than that terrible excuse they turned Deadpool into. I have nothing against Ryan Reynolds heck when given a proper script he can work magic as DP as seen in the Test Footage.

This however



Is the worse conceivable thing you can do to his character! Taking away Deadpool's mouth would be like saying Superman's homeworld Krypton never exploded or that Batman has an entire family waiting for him when he comes back home from fighting crime. Its such a crucial component to their character that taking it away ruins them.

[Mathim]

Well it cant get much worse for X-Men than that terrible excuse they turned Deadpool into. I have nothing against Ryan Reynolds heck when given a proper script he can work magic as DP as seen in the Test Footage.

This however



Is the worse conceivable thing you can do to his character! Taking away Deadpool's mouth would be like saying Superman's homeworld Krypton never exploded or that Batman has an entire family waiting for him when he comes back home from fighting crime. Its such a crucial component to their character that taking it away ruins them.

By and large, though, I did like the X-Men movies, barring the third one, and The Wolverine which I thought was just meh, pretty much unnecessary. Bringing Bryan Singer back into the fold for Days of Future Past was the best thing they could have done. If only the awful two-fold disaster of him NOT returning for part 3 and instead directing that doomed-to-fail Superman Returns, had been avoided...we'd probably be seeing a very different world of both Fox's Marvel stuff and DC films. They might not have even done a reboot of Superman if things had gone completely right...and some careers might be in better shape (Brandon Routh, cough cough). I just wish Fantastic Four had been allowed to die and return to its parent, but Fox still has it and is just bald-facedly trying to make it into an even bigger joke than their previous two epic failures.

[CaptainNexus616]

By and large, though, I did like the X-Men movies, barring the third one, and The Wolverine which I thought was just meh, pretty much unnecessary. Bringing Bryan Singer back into the fold for Days of Future Past was the best thing they could have done. If only the awful two-fold disaster of him NOT returning for part 3 and instead directing that doomed-to-fail Superman Returns, had been avoided...we'd probably be seeing a very different world of both Fox's Marvel stuff and DC films. They might not have even done a reboot of Superman if things had gone completely right...and some careers might be in better shape (Brandon Routh, cough cough). I just wish Fantastic Four had been allowed to die and return to its parent, but Fox still has it and is just bald-facedly trying to make it into an even bigger joke than their previous two epic failures.

I will never be able to get over how the Human Torch would eventually become Captain America. Goes from a hot head reckless fire starter to the symbol of patriotism and the embodiment of America. Shows how well Chris Evans is at playing the roles.

[Mathim]

Actually I thought his Johnny Storm was complete shite. Only Michael Chiklis really struck me as a good Ben Grimm out of the rest of the cast.

[Valaesin]

By and large, though, I did like the X-Men movies, barring the third one, and The Wolverine which I thought was just meh, pretty much unnecessary. Bringing Bryan Singer back into the fold for Days of Future Past was the best thing they could have done. If only the awful two-fold disaster of him NOT returning for part 3 and instead directing that doomed-to-fail Superman Returns, had been avoided...we'd probably be seeing a very different world of both Fox's Marvel stuff and DC films. They might not have even done a reboot of Superman if things had gone completely right...and some careers might be in better shape (Brandon Routh, cough cough). I just wish Fantastic Four had been allowed to die and return to its parent, but Fox still has it and is just bald-facedly trying to make it into an even bigger joke than their previous two epic failures.

Amen regarding Fantastic Four.  If it fails again I really fear it'll never get onto the big screen again.  Its a hard story to do on its own.  But imagine if they could role it into the larger Marvel shared-universe... I think it would be a huge hit there as they could be hinted at during the other movies as these brave astronauts.

[Mathim]

Amen regarding Fantastic Four.  If it fails again I really fear it'll never get onto the big screen again.  Its a hard story to do on its own.  But imagine if they could role it into the larger Marvel shared-universe... I think it would be a huge hit there as they could be hinted at during the other movies as these brave astronauts.

Yeah, Fox really has no reason to keep them around. They have made very little money for the company (in relative terms) and they'd do better to just let Marvel Studios hand it back. Hell, they could probably sell the rights back for a few million and make more profit than they would on the actual new movie, if everything I've heard about it is correct. It's going to be too kiddy-watered-down to appeal to anyone above their tweens, and not action-y enough to appeal to the kids who want to see some real superhero action. It's just a recipe for disaster, and that's not including all the other bad decisions that are going into it.

Honestly, now (post-Avengers 2) would be the perfect time for the F4 to enter the MCU, when the upcoming Civil War is brewing. If there is a divide in the superhero community, they'd be a great piece for either side to have.

[Valaesin]

Honestly, now (post-Avengers 2) would be the perfect time for the F4 to enter the MCU, when the upcoming Civil War is brewing. If there is a divide in the superhero community, they'd be a great piece for either side to have.

I hadn't thought of that but you're perfectly right.  Oh, imagine if they did an origin for the F4 as another Netflix show and then introduce them into the movies as an already-assembled F4.  I think everyone still has Marvel-envy.  I pray DC's work because I really, really want to see a good Justice League movie.  Always loved that team...

[Inkidu]

Unfortunately the Fantastic Four probably isn't happening in time for Avengers 2.

The way rights holding works in America now is that when you buy the rights to translate something to TV or movies or video games you have to "prove you're doing something with it." In the days of yore people used to buy up rights and sit on them. That's why Oz the Great and Powerful (though the line from the book is Oz the Great and Terrible) came out. MGM (or whoever holds it) couldn't just sit on Baum's books anymore with the Wizard of Oz.

So currently Fantastic Four is owned by Fox (and like Sony, Spider-Man, and the Amazing Spider-Man series) and they're currently doing a movie right now I think to maintain hold. Unless they decided to default. I've not followed it very tightly.

[Mathim]

Unfortunately the Fantastic Four probably isn't happening in time for Avengers 2.

The way rights holding works in America now is that when you buy the rights to translate something to TV or movies or video games you have to "prove you're doing something with it." In the days of yore people used to buy up rights and sit on them. That's why Oz the Great and Powerful (though the line from the book is Oz the Great and Terrible) came out. MGM (or whoever holds it) couldn't just sit on Baum's books anymore with the Wizard of Oz.

So currently Fantastic Four is owned by Fox (and like Sony, Spider-Man, and the Amazing Spider-Man series) and they're currently doing a movie right now I think to maintain hold. Unless they decided to default. I've not followed it very tightly.

I know, I know, it's just wishful thinking along with some good reasons why Sony should fuck off and let the professionals handle the F4 from now on. Enough properties have now reverted back to Marvel Studios (Ghost Rider, Blade, Daredevil, few others) and at least one of those is getting some MCU treatment on TV (Netflix, technically) so if something a tad more popular than Daredevil reverted back, that might have potential to become a workable project. Though, Daredevil is relatively low-tech so they probably don't want to invest too heavily into it and make it a big-budget special effects dazzler the way most of the other heroes' powers would demand. Blade is probably the only other low-tech hero that would work on an ongoing TV series and honestly, I'd love to see him get an MCU pic of his own, especially if it helped lead up to the Black Panther movie since they both operate in Africa and elsewhere.

If Marvel's Daredevil does well, they'll probably keep on their intended schedule to follow it up with series focused around Luke Cage aka Power Man, Danny Rand aka Iron Fist, and Jessica Jones (who has had a few different superhero identities) and culminating in the Defenders miniseries featuring all of them. Personally I would have foregone the Daredevil show and done a Heroes for Hire series centering around Power Man and Iron Fist's alliance (and including Shang Chi, the martial arts master) which would be more interesting and could then feature cameos from lesser heroes who haven't quite merited full-movie treatment in the MCU (i.e. Daredevil, Blade, Punisher, etc.) which would help with Marvel's plan to stop doing origin stories after Ant-Man (so basically after Phase 2) by establishing these other unsung heroes in other capacities. I'm not sure who I'd pick to play Power Man or Shang Chi, but I think with a haircut and some bleaching, Michael Angarano (Sky High, The Forbidden Kingdom, Red State) would be perfect for playing Iron Fist.

[CaptainNexus616]

I really like the Defender Mini Series idea that would definitely be the right idea to do. It would be like the Avengers on the small screen. I would personally like to see X-23 get something out of this new universe Marvel is creating. With the freedom from FCC regulations Netflix provides I could see maybe a mini series or something following her origins along with several other minor mutants that were part of her story. It would be a great dark story showing her path trying to regain her humanity.

[Mathim]

I really like the Defender Mini Series idea that would definitely be the right idea to do. It would be like the Avengers on the small screen. I would personally like to see X-23 get something out of this new universe Marvel is creating. With the freedom from FCC regulations Netflix provides I could see maybe a mini series or something following her origins along with several other minor mutants that were part of her story. It would be a great dark story showing her path trying to regain her humanity.

Not likely; she'd be owned by Fox since they have dominion over all things X-Men except for Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch who have to be shared with the owners of the Avengers. Frankly, the latest Wolverine solo outing would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce X-23 as a clone of Wolvy (since they were obviously doing heavy mutant-related research in The Wolverine anyway) and perhaps even introducing his own half-Japanese bastard son, Daken. I mean, think about it: Wolverine really isn't that interesting anymore, so a trinity of him in different forms (son and daughter/clone) would help spice things up. But they just ended up screwing the pooch on that one by having only two and a half mutants in the entire thing, and totally fucking up the Silver Samurai.

I honestly really don't want Wolverine to get another movie of his own (really, they could replace Hugh Jackman at this point and I wouldn't protest) but I heard he will eventually; I'm guessing it'll be something like Alpha Flight or something like that, maybe involving Omega Red. I think they're probably going to have both Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse as part of the next ensemble X-Men movie, but what I'd heard is they're replacing a huge portion of the cast so that they don't have to keep paying big bucks for their top-shelf returning talent pool.

UPDATE:

Well, it looks like Benedict Cumberbatch IS Dr. Steven Strange. I really want to see some screenshots of costumes and stuff now, and how he's going to try to capture the look with the goatee and the grey streaks and the dramatic poses.

Also, interesting casting choices for an even more interesting idea DC has for one of its upcoming shared universe pics, Suicide Squad:

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/suicide-squad-cast-revealed-jared-leto-to-play-the-joker-will-smith-is-deadshot-1201368867/

Apparently Tom Hardy isn't satisfied just playing Bane for DC, now he wants to play a character I've never heard of called Rick Flag. And Jared Leto, who I can't recall having ever seen in a movie, is playing the Joker. I don't know, I was surprised that Heath Ledger outshined Jack Nicholson but I honestly don't think this new guy can outdo either of them. And Will Smith...well, I don't blame him for not wanting to leave it at Hancock as his legacy in superherodom filmdom. You heard me.

But even more impressive is that DC is now probably going to beat Marvel to the punch at making a film about the villains, as well as making one about an underwater superdude.

[Praetoria]

I'm not all that convinced that the DC movies are going to work. They're not wanting to lay down the foundation that Marvel put down before going onto the huge set piece that was Avengers. They want to toss everything and everyone into the Batman/Superman film, and Man of Steel didn't really wow m with it's ending. Although I will say that Amy Adams is the greatest Lois Lane ever ;)

Another strike against DC is that they don't want to do any tie-ins with the well established and received Arrow and Flash TV shows. SHIELD has already proved how much a TV show can enhance a movie universe by filling in certain gaps and tie-ins that would eat up time in the limited running time of a feature movie.

The only DC brightspots for me are TV ones. Arrow and Flash are amazing and I'm completely psyched for the Supergirl show :)

[CaptainNexus616]

I'm not all that convinced that the DC movies are going to work. They're not wanting to lay down the foundation that Marvel put down before going onto the huge set piece that was Avengers. They want to toss everything and everyone into the Batman/Superman film, and Man of Steel didn't really wow m with it's ending. Although I will say that Amy Adams is the greatest Lois Lane ever ;)

Another strike against DC is that they don't want to do any tie-ins with the well established and received Arrow and Flash TV shows. SHIELD has already proved how much a TV show can enhance a movie universe by filling in certain gaps and tie-ins that would eat up time in the limited running time of a feature movie.

The only DC brightspots for me are TV ones. Arrow and Flash are amazing and I'm completely psyched for the Supergirl show :)

You summed up my feelings concerning this Batman v. Superman movie. Its really just a rushed job in an attempt to replicate the results of the Avengers. That said they are not laying the groundwork needed to make it work. I remember watching the first Iron Man movie back in 2008 and seeing that post credit scene of Fury coming by Tony's home offering him to be part of the Avengers. It took FOUR YEARS before we saw the Avengers but it was set up perfectly.

Now that said however if they do this right it may work out. When the first X-Men movie came out it brought in an entire team in at once and while it didn't do as well as the Avengers did in the box office. It got people interested in the genre and is one of the reason why we even have more superhero movies than Batman and Superman.

Also...for those that have been scorned by Teen Titans Go may be happy to hear of a live action adaptation of the Titans is in the works and will be coming out on TNT sometime in the future.

[Praetoria]

One difference, though, between X-Men and Avengers, is that the X-Men were always designed as a team, rather than a collection of heroes with their own individual histories and enemies like the Avengers are. X-Men required much less world-building because all you really had to do is explain mutancy. For Avengers, and the Justice League, you have to establish the different backgrounds for each of the main characters: high technology, mythology, scientific experimentation, etc.  I don't think that Batman Vs. Superman is going to devote much time to explaining Aquaman, Cyborg, or any of the other heroes besides Wonder Woman, since everyone in the world knows Batman and Superman's origin stories by rote already.

[xerohour]

My own theory (and hope) for the Batman v Superman movie, with all the other leaguers in it isn't going to be a giant hodge podge of super heroes thrown into the movie like everybody is expecting. I haven't seen much in way of plot and the like for it so if they have said and I just haven't seen it yet don't burst my bubble lol. But my guess, for wonder woman, flash, etc, is they will all have a little like two minute scene at the start, with their casted actors and then once they all complete it will pan back to Batman sitting in the bat cave, looking at news stories of all these new super heroes around the world/america. And then they will be from there on not in the movie and it will be about Batman going after the most powerful/potentially dangerous one (that being Superman). But it will have somewhat introduced the others, those being ones that WB/DC has announced have stand alone movies coming out in the next few years.

So that's what I guess is going to happen...and I hope hope hope that it isn't just what everyone expects and them throwing in the entire justice league without any background to them.

[Vorian]

My own theory (and hope) for the Batman v Superman movie, with all the other leaguers in it isn't going to be a giant hodge podge of super heroes thrown into the movie like everybody is expecting. I haven't seen much in way of plot and the like for it so if they have said and I just haven't seen it yet don't burst my bubble lol. But my guess, for wonder woman, flash, etc, is they will all have a little like two minute scene at the start, with their casted actors and then once they all complete it will pan back to Batman sitting in the bat cave, looking at news stories of all these new super heroes around the world/america. And then they will be from there on not in the movie and it will be about Batman going after the most powerful/potentially dangerous one (that being Superman). But it will have somewhat introduced the others, those being ones that WB/DC has announced have stand alone movies coming out in the next few years.

So that's what I guess is going to happen...and I hope hope hope that it isn't just what everyone expects and them throwing in the entire justice league without any background to them.

My hope with the other heroes is more along the lines of a teaser/reaction cameo for each near the end, to set up for them stepping out into the open more in future movies. What worries me more than the number of heroes is the number of villains that have been mentioned in connection with this thing ...

[Praetoria]

Yes, DC is definitely building things up as 'Go big or go home' here. Which I think is going to make a jumbled mess. One of the biggest problems that Green Lanteren had was that it tried to do too much and didn't stay very focused.

And the worst thing is that they have a great vehicle in the Arrow-verse to do all the exposition they need. But DC doesn't want to mix the TV and Cinematic universes for whatever reason.  And as it stands now, they're only diluting their efforts because I don't think a lot of DC fans are going to accept anyone other than Stephen Amell and Grant Gusterson as Ollie and Barry in the movies.

[CaptainNexus616]

Its a sad day really when the majority opinion for the Justice League movie is iffy at best. To be fair DC has shot itself multiple ttimes in the foot over it. They announced it shortly after the major success the Avengers yielded which made it look like an attempt to cash in on the success. They announced Ben Affleck as batman a little over a year after Bale. I have nothing against Ben Affleck and pray the best but his track record in movies is bad. They have delayed the movie Odin knows many times now. Finally they are just cramming heroes into one movie.

In truth because it is coming after the Avengers it is always going to be in its shadow. People are going to compare it to the Avengers even ifit is a decent movie and be critical over that its not the Avengers. Before Marvels big project it was just Batman, SSpider-Man and X-Men. When Marvel was green lit to make Iron Man all those years ago they were patient they took the time to establish each character and tell the story. Now Warner Bros just think more heroes in one movie equals big bucks and nothing else.

[Mathim]

Yes, DC is definitely building things up as 'Go big or go home' here. Which I think is going to make a jumbled mess. One of the biggest problems that Green Lanteren had was that it tried to do too much and didn't stay very focused.

And the worst thing is that they have a great vehicle in the Arrow-verse to do all the exposition they need. But DC doesn't want to mix the TV and Cinematic universes for whatever reason.  And as it stands now, they're only diluting their efforts because I don't think a lot of DC fans are going to accept anyone other than Stephen Amell and Grant Gusterson as Ollie and Barry in the movies.

That's pretty much the concern. Batman Vs. Superman isn't going to follow a Batman reboot and will introduce, willy-nilly, a handful of other newcomers out of the blue. They see the money, they don't see the big picture. It's like the Underpants Gnomes: "Phase One, cobble together every DC hero we own the rights to. Phase 2, ............ . Phase 3, Profit!

I think the only problem with them tying into TV shows is that they've got tons of them on different networks (no idea how that all works) but that would be a good idea even if they'd be nibbling Marvel's cock by mimicking their procedure.

[Vorian]

I don't think they should tie the movies to the Arrowverse at all, I think it's way too good at this point for anything based off Man of Steel and the tone is too different. Some of the other shows might fit better, I don't know.

[Praetoria]

But the different characters have different tones.  Superman does not work when written like Batman. Green Arrow does not work when written like Superman.

Marvel pretty much has this down pat in their cinematic universe. Iron Man is a high-tech mecha story. Winter Soldier was a classic political espionage piece. Thor is a high fantasy story. Guardians of the Galaxy is classic space opera. All of the movies have different tones and themes, but exist in the same universe.

DC should be able to do that as well.

[Vorian]

DC should be able to, yes. They can, on TV. Problem is they wrote Man of Steel with the tone closer to a Batman movie. That, in my opinion, sets the baseline for their cinematic universe way too deep into dark, gritty, and honestly low key in terms of superpowers to coexist with the Flash series. Never mind that there's just no way to square the apocalyptic events of Man of Steel with the Arrowverse or Constantine where none of that is ever mentioned. I could see them making Gotham work as backstory for this Batman, maybe, but that's about it of what they have going so far.

[Praetoria]

The way I see it, if the WB really wanted to tie the cinematic and TV universes together, at the end of one of the Arrow/Flash seasons, they could mention the Battle of Metropolis just happening as like the final stinger for the year.

Also....

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Remember that in the digital newspaper Wells is looking at in the end of the Flash pilot, there's an article of Wayne Enterprises buying Queen Consolidated. So Batman already exists in the Arrow-verse.

[Mathim]

The way I see it, if the WB really wanted to tie the cinematic and TV universes together, at the end of one of the Arrow/Flash seasons, they could mention the Battle of Metropolis just happening as like the final stinger for the year.

Also....

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Remember that in the digital newspaper Wells is looking at in the end of the Flash pilot, there's an article of Wayne Enterprises buying Queen Consolidated. So Batman already exists in the Arrow-verse.

If they were going to do that, though, they would have had to go into it (the TV show) knowing that tying it into the movies is how they wanted to do it. With Marvel, they did the opposite; movies first, THEN a show revolving around the movieverse. Now it's too late for DC to do either thing.

[Garuss Vakarian]

I think they shouldn't mix the films and the shows. Keep the shows separate from the films. Honestly, if theirs a thing they get right it's the shows. These days they cant make a film about heroes to save their life. Hell, the only successful film series was Nolans verse of batman. And key word, Nolans verse. (As in he doesn't really fallow the comics, he did his own thing. Successfully so. Making it his own verse all together. Like an elsworld story.) I think the tv shows are where attention should go. If they just keep it up, they can have their heavy loyal tv fan base watching the different tv shows while they rack in profits from adds.  The shows can be their rival to Marvel/disneys movies. Instead of playing catch up, and trying to connect a tv show to their current movies. They should try and continue their own path. Lets face it, disney won the movie market. If they dont play smart, and continue with Arrow, Flash, Gotham, and further spin offs? They will fail and lose the tv market as well. To shows like Agents of Shield, and dont think Agents is the only show planned. I bet you Disney is thinking along the lines of "Hmmm... Well, we dont own Spiderman in the theaters, that goes to Sony. But we do in cartoons... Oh! Let's make a spidey tv show!"

Like corporate bafoons often do, Fox looks for the easy profit. The path of least resistance. They look at how other people are making gross sums of money and thinking, I need to do that to! Instead of thinking, how do I one up that? Or How do I do something new, that people like as much?