Interracial Roleplaying - How do you feel?

[la dame en noir]

When one culture/race/ethnicity thinks they're better than another in any way shape or form - it is racism. I'm going to have to stop this right here and focus on the topic.

Being discriminated against as a writer of color. Thank you.

[Kythia]

Yes, my apologies.  Derailed that there a little, sorry.  Didn't mean to.

[Nachtmahr]

Well, I had a post written out when I saw the new additions, but since it was going along with the apparent derailment then I guess that it's now irrelevant. I do how strongly disagree with some of your arguments and I believe that you have misrepresented European history and culture by claiming that "Eurocentric standards of beauty" stem from racism.

I'm going to officially declare myself out of this discussion though, because I frankly don't feel like it is a discussion anymore.

[Renegade Vile]

When one culture/race/ethnicity thinks they're better than another in any way shape or form - it is racism. I'm going to have to stop this right here and focus on the topic.

The person that spoke to you does not think they are better than you, they have their preferences of appearance. No more, no less.

Being discriminated against as a writer of color. Thank you.

Apologies if you were offended, but I actually agreed with you on a number of topics, but I still stand by the fact that preferring one race over another on the deeply personal and intimate level of romantic and sexual relations, and extending this to role play for familiarity or fantasy is not, and never will be, racism. IT's as much personal preference as someone liking women who are on the heavy side, someone liking women who are on the thin side, someone liking men with blue eyes, some preferring dark eyes. There is -no- difference.
I will concede that the prevalence of white beauty in advertisement and the like makes women who do not fit that ideal feel like they are not beautiful and perhaps some people act on it, but I still think these preferences come from people around you more than what's displayed on some billboard or on an ad or in a tv show. It's same with the prevalence of stick thin models causing self-image problems in women of any race, and especially of a young age. But that should still not deprive anyone, of any race, from preferring certain visual aspects about a potential partner.

Please do not take people who disagree with you and try to debate calmly as discrimination, I am trying to understand your point of view and if I disagree, I will tell you. That's the nature of posting something on an open forum.

[la dame en noir]

Its too hard to try and explain everyday discriminations based on race, skin color, etc without someone thinking that they're personally being attacked.

Sorry.

I had an anxiety attack about this.

[Kythia]

Realistically, I think the discussion you want to hold would be better off in B&U rather than PROC

[Renegade Vile]

Its too hard to try and explain everyday discriminations based on race, skin color, etc without someone thinking that they're personally being attacked.

Sorry.

I had an anxiety attack about this.

I didn't think I was being personally attacked, I was only pointing out what I think might be a flaw in your thinking, that's all. I know you weren't literally saying I was a racist. It's a rhetorical question.
You don't have to feel so anxious about voicing your own opinion. It's your right to do so, no matter whether someone disagrees with you, or ten people disagree with you. If I made it feel like I was jumping down your throat, though, I do apologize.

[la dame en noir]

Racial issues are a very touchy subject, so its hard to explain to people what I mean - what I go through - what my community goes through, without some stress with it.

The topic will be closed soon I think.

Thank you to everyone for their input.

[Cycle]

I do not know a single person who was told from birth to specifically reject anyone. If they do, it's always been a personal choice in my experience. I cannot speak for other locations on the globe though.

This definitely exists.  You're lucky not to have encountered it. 

[Blythe]

I think that it's important to understand that la dame is not saying that someone who disagrees with her is guilty of racism. She's not intending to personally attack anyone. She's not trying to say those who disagree with her are racist, but she wants to discuss some pretty difficult and powerfully influential experiences she's had, in RL and also in some RP, that have affected her adversely and why she thinks that seems to be the case.

It's a very difficult thing to open up about the types of experiences she's discussed having.

So la dame is talking about some very real problems she encountered in real life (separate a bit from the initial RP topic a bit, but she's had some bad ones when it comes to RP), and I think it is important to acknowledge that she's had these experiences. For example, when I read this:

Colorism is a huge thing in black communities. Often - black men and women(more often women) are ridiculed and put down if they're darker than what is acceptable. Parents will tell their kids to stay out of the sun, try skin bleachers, date a white or hispanic male/female so their grandkids have "light skin and good hair". In a lot of cultures being "dark" or "black" is ugly and that mindset is very toxic. This is why you have so many movements in different cultures to embrace loving who you are.

I had absolutely no idea this sort of thing happened. It was heartbreaking for me to read. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a young black girl and be told to use skin bleachers or have to leap through hoops about how to style one's hair or get lectured about the "right" race to marry, all because dark skin would be perceived to be somehow bad.

I can't imagine the devastating effect this would have on self-esteem, on one's perception of self-love and beauty, but...at minimum, it would be incredibly harmful.

For that matter, just for the record? I think black is beautiful, la dame. You are just as lovely as anyone else, regardless of skin.

I had one white male tell me that he would fuck me, but would never marry a black woman because he doesn't want his kids to be black, look black, or carry any genetic diseases african-americans may have.

This dude sounds like a colossal jackass. Grade A Jackass, for that matter.

[la dame en noir]

Thank you, Blythe. This is what I'm trying to do...maybe I worded a few things wrong?

[Renegade Vile]

Thank you, Blythe. This is what I'm trying to do...maybe I worded a few things wrong?

No, I just did not realize the topic had moved on from your original post, I thought we were still discussing him not wanting to role play with characters of color was the main point of discussion.

[Blythe]

Thank you, Blythe. This is what I'm trying to do...maybe I worded a few things wrong?

Most welcome.

I think it's hard to to talk about controversial or hot button topics sometimes, especially in a text format. It's easy to lose tone and context.

I generally try to assume the most positive interpretation of what someone is posting, especially when it's about topics that can leave feelings very raw.

Realistically, I think the discussion you want to hold would be better off in B&U rather than PROC

Sort of? This particular topic is one of those that could hypothetically fit in either board. Is up to la dame if she'd like it in the B&U.

No, I just did not realize the topic had moved on from your original post, I thought we were still discussing him not wanting to role play with characters of color was the main point of discussion.

Yes, there's been quite a lot of discussion in between now and the first post. I think it's pretty easy to lose track of some discussion that happens in the "middle" of a thread. But yes, things have moved a bit beyond the initial RP discussion of the original post.

[Kythia]

I think that it's important to understand that la dame is not saying that someone who disagrees with her is guilty of racism. She's not intending to personally attack anyone. She's not trying to say those who disagree with her are racist, but she wants to discuss some pretty difficult and powerfully influential experiences she's had, in RL and also in some RP, that have affected her adversely and why she thinks that seems to be the case.

It's a very difficult thing to open up about the types of experiences she's discussed having.

Which is fine.  I don't think anyone felt they were being personally attacked.  I didn't, and Renegade Vile has said a few times that he didn't, I can't directly speak for anyone else but I'd be very surprised if it were the case.  That's a non-issue.

However, I would query your "wanting to discuss".  I think, in fact, la dame wants to "tell us about" more than "discuss".  That's in no way intended as a criticism, there are attitudes, events, etc. in my life that I in no way want to discuss on a public forum.  Not an issue, except for the fact that this is PROC and people will read the thread (or more likely the last few posts) and put in their opinion.  And la dame has made it quite clear that she wants the conversation to stay well away from certain areas - certain highly relevant areas, not obscure tangents.  That she finds it difficult to discuss them.  As I say, not an issue: I have similar areas. 

My suggestion that this was more of a B&U thread than a PROC thread was because of this.  La dame doesn't want a debate about this and doesn't want to be questioned on it.  It seems to me - and obviously you're the purple badged one so if we disagree it means I'm wrong - that PROC is literally the worst subforum on the site to do that.  B&U has something of a "no debate, this is about me venting" feel.  PROC doesn't.

In no way trying to tell you your job, just that I think you defended la dame from charges no one was making and missed some charges people were.

[la dame en noir]

I don't like the idea of "hey listen to me you're all wrong"

Which is why I posted it here. We can discuss, I'm just having an issue of everyone telling me that it couldn't possibly happen because its not happening to them.

I just want to stop repeating myself.

[Kythia]

Which is why I posted it here. We can discuss, I'm just having an issue of everyone telling me that it couldn't possibly happen because its not happening to them.

I don't feel anyone has actually said that?  What are you referring to here?

[la dame en noir]

Then that ONE white male had issues that are beyond the scope of this discussion. Unless you think I, for example, am cut of the same cloth? You cannot blame everyone for one *sshole who was raised by idiots.

This to me speaks volumes as  "how could you say that, i don't do that so its not happening"

I really want to stop now, I'm starting to feel like you want me to prove myself in ways I can not or find some flaw to make my experiences and others invalid.

So please, stop.

[Kythia]

Hmmm, him saying that that guy had issues and is an asshole is the same as him saying that nothing happened?

Anyway.  I'm out.  Third time lucky - you clearly don't want a PROC thread, ask for it to be moved.

[la dame en noir]

Theres a difference between a discussion and picking on someone because you don't like what they said.

Sorry.

[Blythe]

It seems like a thread-lock is in order. This particular thread seems to have run its course, and it's likely to only result in hurt feelings from this point onward all around.

Many thanks to all who contributed to the discussion here. Not an easy topic for anyone to talk about, and it was good to see what all the different opinions everyone had.