Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Basically Full)

[ff]

Other than the modifier for having a stronghold, ignore the rest; the surplus/deficit modifiers replace things like special powers or generosity.

Wait...but don't the surplus/deficits we generate depend on our Leadership score in turn (i.e. with higher levle followers we can cast those important spells to have more food profit, etc.) I'm so confused..

[ff]

You can still afford one fast landship.I put together six pages of domain management rules and I'm the one putting forward the motion. :P

That sunk effort's no big deal to me.  Glyph's still getting his beautiful keep, while those not interested in the fine details can just abstract their keep generically.

So, Katina, if some players such as myself are not pouncing on all the domain managemnet details, here are probably some factors:

- Rather than this thread starting as an RP Request for a domain management game, it was a general D&D request...and I and others are thankful you stepped up to DM, but what it means is, you didn't necessarily get a crowd  who was familiar with these kind of rules. but with general D&D.

- The pages of rules and information are spread out over like 14 pages of this thread now, and they've been evolving and metastasizing as it goes on - in essence we're doing the 'campaign type brainstorming' and 'specific PC / domains' planning in parallel, rather than one then the other, and people are reoptimizing to hit new targets as it evolves. That said, the campaign info you put in the header post of the characters thread is very helpful as a 'summary' of char creation parameters, much easier to reference. F

- There's a lot of 'homework' to absorb: the SBG rules, your own production rules, and your custom campaign setting info. With the latter, it's much nicer than the norm of a 'custom campaign setting' about which the players know zilch, and I think it's great you've fleshed it out - just please bear with me when I don't know that there are no elves in the world b/c I haven't had time to read it end to end, and even if I do I won't retain it, etc.

[ff]

FF: Foraging is an interesting idea, though the problem there is that the skill check doesn't account for rather barren land.  To that end, we'll just tack +5 on the DC and shift the increment from 2 to 3 (so 15 to produce one unit, +1 for every additional 3, no regard for character level).  It'll just be one unified roll for the entire month for all your minions.  So, if they get a good roll, there be much bounty that month.  If they roll poorly, I hope you weren't counting on it.  And I'd rather remove the option to take 10 on foraging, since it being unreliable strikes me as more interesting.

My point about taking 10 is that I wouldn't be doing it anyway, since it's better not to with Survival, in terms of average production (since you get 0 units at 9 or less, 1 at 10, 2 at 12, etc. so there's more upside to beating a target than downside to falling below.)

I kinda figured you might make Survival harder b/c of the barren land - though I suppose spells like Plant Growth and other druidic cultivation should, over time, be able to improve the land.

[Aether]

Anywho, Aether, we're simplifying things; no need to go into heavy details with your stronghold if you don't want to (you can be as vague as, "It's a small abbey") and the domain management is being abstracted out.  So, main focus is back to the character.

FF, I think Katina is taking it as far as the player wants to...  If you wanna focus on character you are prolly good.

[ulthakptah]

I thought I should chip in on the development. It's not that hard to get this to work and make a profit. I only have a leadership score of 15 and using 20 followers I could produce 69 units of culture or wealth, or 92 units of food. All the while having a security of 10 CR, and I have to not recruit as many people as I can, because they'll be more hassle than help. All have to do is get more units than three time you population of one commodity then you just trade for the rest among the PCs

[TheGlyphstone]

That's part of the problem,though - you have a tiny group of followers, it's not hard to feed/supply them. Those of us who are Charisma-based (me and Wizard, at least) can't even feed ourselves without magic, and still run a deficit in both wealth and culture. The "Trade with the PCs" works in theory, but so far everyone is running a Wealth deficit, there has to be surplus amongst us to trade before we can do it.

[ulthakptah]

the chart for followers is how much you can have, not how much you have to.

[WyzardWhately]

the chart for followers is how much you can have, not how much you have to.

That's actually a pretty decent point.  I get rid of half or so of my L1 people, and I might be doing good.

Hmm.

[Katina Tarask]

So, the votes are in; to Hell with the domain management hassle.  It was a bad idea to bring up in a random game.

So, no domain management rules.

To those who don't want to bother with SBG, again, feel free to abstract it out and just say, "an overgrown old castle," or, "an abbey," or, "a small fort."

[ulthakptah]

So, the votes are in; to Hell with the domain management hassle.  It was a bad idea to bring up in a random game.

So, no domain management rules.

To those who don't want to bother with SBG, again, feel free to abstract it out and just say, "an overgrown old castle," or, "an abbey," or, "a small fort."

I like the domain management and I don't think you should just scrape them. This group probably won't be using them, but hold on to what you have so far it has potential. The next step you should take in developing these rules would be to make a list of all the stronghold components and write how they effect you domain. I think they should have effects like building buildings in Civ 4, and they don't all have to have % some could be like, basic bath house give +2 culture. I don't know if you have every played Civ 4, but I recommend it not just for ideas about your domain management rules, but also because it an awesome game.

[Ixy]

So, the votes are in; to Hell with the domain management hassle.  It was a bad idea to bring up in a random game.

So, no domain management rules.

To those who don't want to bother with SBG, again, feel free to abstract it out and just say, "an overgrown old castle," or, "an abbey," or, "a small fort."

We love you, Katina.

[Katina Tarask]

I like the domain management and I don't think you should just scrape them. This group probably won't be using them, but hold on to what you have so far it has potential. The next step you should take in developing these rules would be to make a list of all the stronghold components and write how they effect you domain. I think they should have effects like building buildings in Civ 4, and they don't all have to have % some could be like, basic bath house give +2 culture. I don't know if you have every played Civ 4, but I recommend it not just for ideas about your domain management rules, but also because it an awesome game.

Who ever said I was throwing them away?  They're just not coming into play here.  For a few pages I just slapped together in an afternoon, I think they have potential (so long as I can keep them relatively short), but they need some real polish.

We love you, Katina.

I love me, too. :P

[WyzardWhately]

I've managed to find artwork for my cohort (shown above), but I'm having a terrible time finding anything for my PC.  I always have trouble locating portraits.  So, I'll be working on that, but if anyone has any suggestions I'd love to see them.

[TheGlyphstone]

You need a picture of a deva, right? Do a few Google Image searches for 'angel' or something similar?

I punched in "winged anime" and got this on page 1, for instance:
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs20/300W/i/2007/307/0/b/Sexy_Winged_Guy_by_SpiritGrove.jpg

[WyzardWhately]

Yeah, I've been trolling through GIS & Deviantart, but I'm not finding anything I'm perfectly happy with.

Perhaps my standards are too exacting.

[Katina Tarask]

Have you tried Gelbooru/Safebooru?  Though you'd probably have better luck giving your character a sex change. :P

[Ixy]

Yeah, I've been trolling through GIS & Deviantart, but I'm not finding anything I'm perfectly happy with.

Perhaps my standards are too exacting.

Google 'drakonis'.  More avs than you can shake a stick at.

[Katina Tarask]

By the by, Ixy, if you want some sort of dark/demonic heritage, we can go so far as slapping together an LA0 version of Succubus real quick, complete with substitution levels (possibly for Beguiler).

[Ixy]

Excellent.... working on it tonight.

[PhantomPistoleer]

So, if this was triple gestalt, what would you guys pick as your third class?

[TheGlyphstone]

Commoner. It's all my poor brain could handle after the meltdown that triple gestalt would cause.

[Ixy]

So, if this was triple gestalt, what would you guys pick as your third class?

peasant

[Pockets]

Seeing as this is an exceptionally ACTIVE thread, having 346 posts (not counting my own). I apologize for putting in my two cents in rather late, but I take exception to anything past level 15 being the purview of spellcasters as I have a two weapon fighting rogue that can consistently do my damage in a fight than any caster I've yet to encounter. (At level 20 doing, Six attacks that all deal 10d6 sneak attack damage [assuming they all hit], not to mention special properties of the weapon and base damage). But anyhow, I can DM or play though I have to admit that I prefer playing than running the game.

[Katina Tarask]

I have a Warmage build that can deal enough raw damage to kill Zeus in a single round.

However, damage is not power.  When casters can teleport to Heaven and back, bind an army of demons, turn a burrito into an elder dragon, possess their enemies, and gain immunity to that 10d6 sneak attack, the 10d6 sneak attack doesn't mean much.  Being good at stabbing things pales compared to the vast, cosmic, world-shaking power of high-level mages.

At any rate, we have a DM.  Me.  10th-level gestalt, full source including 3rd-party material in a homebrew setting of my own creation.  All PCs get Leadership and Landlord (Stronghold Builder's Guide) as bonus feats and the goal is to establish a new province in the hellish wasteland between nations (namely between Agnis and Palmeed)

[Ixy]

Oh fuck here comes the math again