Interest check - D&D 3.5 in Regency England

Started by HopeFox, December 20, 2014, 01:20:24 AM

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HopeFox

Hey gang! I'm thinking of starting up a D&D 3.5 Edition campaign in a setting of my own devising - namely, a fantasy version of England circa 1805.

That is to say, it is England (and the rest of Earth, but England will be the main focus), but with magic and dragons and elves and orcs and things. Plus all of the things that went along with England at that time - nobles and gentry, the rising middle class, the Industrial Revolution, colonialism, war with France, sex, romance and marriage (three very different things).

Wizards are educated at Cambridge. Clerics are educated at Oxford. Rogues are educated on the streets of London. The Church of England has clerics of five different gods in it, and they don't get along very well. Veteran adventurers might retire and use their wealth to enter genteel society, but they're still new money, and that's terrible.

Anyone interested? I'd prefer people who have a particular interest in Regency period literature (Pride and Prejudice, Wuthering Heights, Vanity Fair, North and South), because the themes and setting of the game will revolve heavily around the things that were important to that period.
If you're such an iconoclast, where were you when we trashed Constantinople?

Kimmy

As a lover of Georgette Heyer, Regency England and D&D, how could I not?

Please oh please expand upon the gods - since that will be one of the important aspects to shape the view of the world that I can't imagine.

And can I assume that various non-human races have their own noble houses? I can even imagine an Orc/Half-Orc house that deals in all the bad things nobles might want - but never want advertised.

*spins* I want to know o so much more!
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Angie

I haven't read much of this period, but damn am I interested in 3.5 in a different setting. I also have a Dwarf Ranger I've been dying to use...
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ShadowFox89

 I'd be interested depending on the nature of the game (political intrigue?) and sources allowed.
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HopeFox

Quote from: Kimmy on December 20, 2014, 01:32:55 AM
As a lover of Georgette Heyer, Regency England and D&D, how could I not?

That's what I like to hear!

QuotePlease oh please expand upon the gods - since that will be one of the important aspects to shape the view of the world that I can't imagine.

I'm using the standard Greyhawk pantheon from the core books - Heironeous, Pelor, Boccob and the rest. In England, the Church of England is primarily composed of five faiths - Heironeous, Pelor, Boccob, St Cuthbert and Hextor. Obviously some of them don't get along well, but they grit their teeth and put up with each other. The other gods have their own clerics, who are part of the Church of England but aren't as well represented. A few gods have worship outlawed - namely Vecna, Nerull, Erythnul and Olidammara.

Other than the pantheism, the Church of England has all of the same trappings as it does in the real world. The head of the church is the Queen, followed by the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, down to bishops, archdeacons, deacons, rectors and vicars.

Most of Europe follows the same set of gods, with a few regional variations (St Cuthbert is an ascended Scottish saint and not really worshipped outside Britain). The rest of the world appears to worship different pantheons, but some theologians believe that they're actually the same gods in different guises.

QuoteAnd can I assume that various non-human races have their own noble houses? I can even imagine an Orc/Half-Orc house that deals in all the bad things nobles might want - but never want advertised.

The races, for the most part, originate from particular parts of the world, but of course have moved around since. Britain was originally occupied by mostly humans. It then saw an influx of hobgoblins from Rome in 43, and then elves from France in 1066. Most races can be found in most places in the world, but those are the most common ones in England. Culture and politics are more strongly aligned along national lines than racial ones, so there aren't "orc noble houses" so much as "Hungarian noble houses", for example, although the majority of Hungarians (well, the people in Austra-Hungary who call themselves Hungarian) are orcs.

Quote from: Angiejuusan on December 20, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
I haven't read much of this period, but damn am I interested in 3.5 in a different setting. I also have a Dwarf Ranger I've been dying to use...

I'd advise you to read or at least watch something like Pride and Prejudice or Jane Eyre to get a feel for the period, but I am happy to help explain things! There's a sizeable minority of dwarves in Britain, from all those raids they launched from Norway.

Quote from: ShadowFox89 on December 20, 2014, 02:01:35 AM
I'd be interested depending on the nature of the game (political intrigue?) and sources allowed.

I'm not terribly good at running political intrigue as such, but interaction with nobles, bishops, generals and other power players will be an important part of the game. Also underworld figures, since crime and smuggling are important too. I plan to give characters of any social class plenty of things to do both physically and socially.

As to sources, basically the main line of 3.5 stuff, excluding anything particularly wacky like Unearthed Arcana or Tome of Magic. Nothing third party or setting-specific. I am open to suggestions on a case-by-case basis, though.
If you're such an iconoclast, where were you when we trashed Constantinople?

Angie

I may need to look through some variants. Especially the Non-Spellcasting Ranger...
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kckolbe

So bards are college dropouts?

I have some work to do on this, as I can't say that I am particularly knowledgeable on the period, but I am definitely willing to put in the effort for a good group game.  My only suggestion would be to leave out the "major gods" and focus on smaller ones.  I feel that the main gods are too one dimensional and have more typecast followers.
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Chulanowa

well, one way to handle that is to sort of throw the gods together as one big lumpy pantheon, with clerics of that pantheon getting the full range of domains / weapons (each individual cleric is still limited to two domains, one weapon, though, and alignment restrictions still apply) - this leads to a sort of situation like you get with Eberron, with little mystery cults - What might Hextor clerics look like, if they're swinging around longswords, see magic as the most important thing, and have the Sun and strength domains?  ;D

Now that I hear "Olidammra is outlawed" of course I have an itching little urge to make a cleric of the dude. he and Obad-Hai always make the best clerics. "Wait, you're a what?"

Unfortunately I know pretty much nothing about the period except what I've scraped up from the occasional movie and the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik (though, if England has a dragon-based air force, I'm in!)

Tell me - are halflings Irish?  ;D

Kimmy

Quote from: kckolbe on December 20, 2014, 03:14:31 AM
So bards are college dropouts?

Whilst Spellswords took too heavy an interest in the fencing classes?

I just threw an idea about my head and thought up a noble house. I know it's early to submit anything, but I thought I'd try for it.

The Noble House of Cerberus

House Race: Predominantly Human, though they do not frown upon non-human marriages and as such, many cousins are of mixed heritage.
House Wealth: Vineyards, Crops, Ales and Liqueurs. They own some of England's finest alcohol interests.
Rivals: House Felid, a minor noble house with Alehouses and Alcohol interests. They have been trying to steal, ally or even marry themselves into House Cerebus for generations. The two houses are rarely invited together unless the event is large enough to ensure they need not cross paths.
House Traits: Loyalty, Intelligent, Strength & Predatory Minds.

House History:
The House of Cerebus rose during war. Before the war they had been a family of wealth - but not title. Their vineyards had always been known for fine, delicate rose wines. It is said that when war came, they made some pact - trading for power and title to survive the coming war. Demons & Witches are spoken of - but the story is old enough that most will forgive or forget such matters. The House survived the war, having protected their lands well. Men always spent money on drink, so their coin flowed despite the circumstances. Choosing to further their interests, the head of the house invested in more land - taking advantage of the misfortunes of war. They took new crops, producing strong ales and pure liqueurs. Their drinks became well known and respected - which opened the door to society and title. Why their wealth flows so grand that the Lord had all the silverware given to their servants - instead settling for the rarest of crystalware and even taking adamantium cutlery! Even today the practice is upheld - no house of Cerebus holds silverware but instead offers you an array of dazzling alternatives. Why you can even find even platinum pieces in their main London houses! Though many of the house do enjoy the softer tone of silver jewelery, it is expected that none shall be worn within Cerebus land.

Within gentle society, the House of Cerebus is a well liked House - but they are considered the rough diamonds of society. Their men are known for strong emotion and desire. Whilst their women are known for being too brazen, intelligent and yet, fiercely loyal. The whole house has close knit bonds of kinship - which helps cover their rougher scandals and affairs. Well, loyalty and coin at least. Scandal enough wag tongues, but never enough to be shunned from society. Their fine drinks help this belief - for it is known that to be shunned by House Cerebus is to lose favor with all the reputable suppliers of wine and drink throughout London! Unfortunately the House's political power extends little beyond this. But it is enough to ensure they continue to receive invitations to balls and routs amongst the finer houses of Society.

Rumor aside, the House is respected and well liked. Their affairs are usually discreet, though emotions can run high under the moonlight. It's said that any man wishing to marry a daughter of Cerebus need only respect his wife with loyalty to keep her love. They say that so as he brings home his mistresses for her to approval, she will consent happily. Why they even say such affairs end in ménage à trois! Such is the loyalty of the Ladies of House Cerebus!

Perhaps their strangest attribute is the common place birthing of triplets. This is a great pride of the house - with great celebration and their greatest of relatives being summoned to attend such births! It's said to be the great strength of Cerebus's linage! Such children are groomed as if they were the Lord's own children! It is expected for these lucky three to grow into rakes and rogues, bells and beauties - in short, they are expected to be people of note within society one day. And this expectation is well founded - for the triplets always seem to show sharp minds, strong bodies and bright eyes. Their wits, their charms and graces, their physique and dangerous smiles... It's enough to melt hearts and leave men forgotten of their wives!
]
But these children are also the families weakness. For Lord Cerebus knows above all, that the triplets are those bonded closest to their cursed blood. These children may not manifest their dark natures - but they will embody the creatures they are tied to. For the House of Cerebus is tied to Lycanthropy. Such was the cost of their nobility. Their blood runs thin now - but when the moon is high, all the house suffer heightened emotion - and scandal often arises. And yet, when triplets are born, all in the house know to watch. For these children will be gifted - strong, fast, intelligent - predators and prey alike! They will have the best chance to be noted by the world - and hold the worst secret for they may one day transform into beast or monster... Their desires can run red with vengeance or shatter weak marriages. They can be brutes and bullies - or unstoppable nightmares. Gifted with vitality inhuman, they are to be nurtured and raised most careful. You cannot deny their animistic natures - but you can try to shape those natures into gifts instead of traps. It's said that House Felid once hunted monsters and lycanthropes. And after an attempt to force marriage upon a daughter of Cerebus, the truth was revealed - and a blood feud started. Most know nothing of the truth - but the two houses always bear open animosity toward one another.
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HopeFox

Oh, and I'm aiming for a group of four to six players.

Quote from: Angiejuusan on December 20, 2014, 02:45:00 AM
I may need to look through some variants. Especially the Non-Spellcasting Ranger...

The non-spellcasting ranger in Complete Warrior is pretty good, and I'm happy with it.

Quote from: kckolbe on December 20, 2014, 03:14:31 AM
So bards are college dropouts?

Some of them! Bards are pretty varied - some are university-educated diplomats or conservatory-trained opera singers, others are penniless travelling fiddle players.

QuoteI have some work to do on this, as I can't say that I am particularly knowledgeable on the period, but I am definitely willing to put in the effort for a good group game.  My only suggestion would be to leave out the "major gods" and focus on smaller ones.  I feel that the main gods are too one dimensional and have more typecast followers.

I can promise that the clergy of each god will be quite varied. I already have two important priests of Hextor mapped out who are very much opposed to each other in their outlook. The minor gods do exist, of course - they don't have many priests, but they have some.

Quote from: Chulanowa on December 20, 2014, 03:26:31 AM
Now that I hear "Olidammra is outlawed" of course I have an itching little urge to make a cleric of the dude. he and Obad-Hai always make the best clerics. "Wait, you're a what?"
I am fond of clerics of Olidammara. It's tricky to become one - becoming a cleric usually requires studying Divinity at a university - but they have an underground network for such things. I've always liked the fact that clerics of Olidammara use other gods' holy symbols instead of their own.

QuoteUnfortunately I know pretty much nothing about the period except what I've scraped up from the occasional movie and the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik (though, if England has a dragon-based air force, I'm in!)

Not quite, no, but there may be an elite unit or two mounted on griffons.

QuoteTell me - are halflings Irish?  ;D

Indian, actually. India is full of them, and there are lots of roving tribes of halflings who travel to all corners of the world, earning their livings through itinerant labour, musical performances and a little bit of outright theft.

I think Ireland is predominantly human, but I haven't actually sketched out all of the racial locations yet, so if someone has a race/nationality combination they want to suggest, I'm open to those.

Quote from: Kimmy on December 20, 2014, 03:39:17 AM
Whilst Spellswords took too heavy an interest in the fencing classes?
Either that, or the Royal Marines tapped them on the shoulder and reminded them how much they loved having spellcasters in Her Majesty's forces. (Incidentally, being the only guy in your unit who can cast prestidigitation is the best thing ever.)

QuoteI just threw an idea about my head and thought up a noble house. I know it's early to submit anything, but I thought I'd try for it.

The Noble House of Cerberus

House Race: Predominantly Human, though they do not frown upon non-human marriages and as such, many cousins are of mixed heritage.
House Wealth: Vineyards, Crops, Ales and Liqueurs. They own some of England's finest alcohol interests.
Rivals: House Felid, a minor noble house with Alehouses and Alcohol interests. They have been trying to steal, ally or even marry themselves into House Cerebus for generations. The two houses are rarely invited together unless the event is large enough to ensure they need not cross paths.
House Traits: Loyalty, Intelligent, Strength & Predatory Minds.

House History:
The House of Cerebus rose during war. Before the war they had been a family of wealth - but not title. Their vineyards had always been known for fine, delicate rose wines. It is said that when war came, they made some pact - trading for power and title to survive the coming war. Demons & Witches are spoken of - but the story is old enough that most will forgive or forget such matters. The House survived the war, having protected their lands well. Men always spent money on drink, so their coin flowed despite the circumstances. Choosing to further their interests, the head of the house invested in more land - taking advantage of the misfortunes of war. They took new crops, producing strong ales and pure liqueurs. Their drinks became well known and respected - which opened the door to society and title. Why their wealth flows so grand that the Lord had all the silverware given to their servants - instead settling for the rarest of crystalware and even taking adamantium cutlery! Even today the practice is upheld - no house of Cerebus holds silverware but instead offers you an array of dazzling alternatives. Why you can even find even platinum pieces in their main London houses! Though many of the house do enjoy the softer tone of silver jewelery, it is expected that none shall be worn within Cerebus land.

Within gentle society, the House of Cerebus is a well liked House - but they are considered the rough diamonds of society. Their men are known for strong emotion and desire. Whilst their women are known for being too brazen, intelligent and yet, fiercely loyal. The whole house has close knit bonds of kinship - which helps cover their rougher scandals and affairs. Well, loyalty and coin at least. Scandal enough wag tongues, but never enough to be shunned from society. Their fine drinks help this belief - for it is known that to be shunned by House Cerebus is to lose favor with all the reputable suppliers of wine and drink throughout London! Unfortunately the House's political power extends little beyond this. But it is enough to ensure they continue to receive invitations to balls and routs amongst the finer houses of Society.

Rumor aside, the House is respected and well liked. Their affairs are usually discreet, though emotions can run high under the moonlight. It's said that any man wishing to marry a daughter of Cerebus need only respect his wife with loyalty to keep her love. They say that so as he brings home his mistresses for her to approval, she will consent happily. Why they even say such affairs end in ménage à trois! Such is the loyalty of the Ladies of House Cerebus!

Perhaps their strangest attribute is the common place birthing of triplets. This is a great pride of the house - with great celebration and their greatest of relatives being summoned to attend such births! It's said to be the great strength of Cerebus's linage! Such children are groomed as if they were the Lord's own children! It is expected for these lucky three to grow into rakes and rogues, bells and beauties - in short, they are expected to be people of note within society one day. And this expectation is well founded - for the triplets always seem to show sharp minds, strong bodies and bright eyes. Their wits, their charms and graces, their physique and dangerous smiles... It's enough to melt hearts and leave men forgotten of their wives!
]
But these children are also the families weakness. For Lord Cerebus knows above all, that the triplets are those bonded closest to their cursed blood. These children may not manifest their dark natures - but they will embody the creatures they are tied to. For the House of Cerebus is tied to Lycanthropy. Such was the cost of their nobility. Their blood runs thin now - but when the moon is high, all the house suffer heightened emotion - and scandal often arises. And yet, when triplets are born, all in the house know to watch. For these children will be gifted - strong, fast, intelligent - predators and prey alike! They will have the best chance to be noted by the world - and hold the worst secret for they may one day transform into beast or monster... Their desires can run red with vengeance or shatter weak marriages. They can be brutes and bullies - or unstoppable nightmares. Gifted with vitality inhuman, they are to be nurtured and raised most careful. You cannot deny their animistic natures - but you can try to shape those natures into gifts instead of traps. It's said that House Felid once hunted monsters and lycanthropes. And after an attempt to force marriage upon a daughter of Cerebus, the truth was revealed - and a blood feud started. Most know nothing of the truth - but the two houses always bear open animosity toward one another.

Well, I like it! And I do love werewolves. My only concern is that this feels more like the story of a Venetian merchant house than an English noble family. Which you could do, of course - you could be from an English offshoot of the family, or simply be an Italian character visiting England for whatever reason. If you want it to be an English family, I think it needs to be either smaller or younger - I don't think it quite fits into the scale of England's economic history as is. (I could be wrong about that, though - I do enjoy history, but I don't know as much of it as I'd like to.)
If you're such an iconoclast, where were you when we trashed Constantinople?

Kimmy

QuoteWell, I like it! And I do love werewolves. My only concern is that this feels more like the story of a Venetian merchant house than an English noble family. Which you could do, of course - you could be from an English offshoot of the family, or simply be an Italian character visiting England for whatever reason. If you want it to be an English family, I think it needs to be either smaller or younger - I don't think it quite fits into the scale of England's economic history as is. (I could be wrong about that, though - I do enjoy history, but I don't know as much of it as I'd like to.)

Now that I can work with. A merchant family that marries into English society - perhaps to promote their brand, perhaps to expand their lands to produce other kinds of alcohol- that could work rather well. And it also adds a little distaste to their rise, mercenary families aren't always well respected. They probably rescued a titled heiress from poverty. So they have enough wealth and respectability to enter society - but the bigger doors are opened either because their ability to bring in the best alcohol (whether or not it's legal - I can imagine there are trade sanctions against the homelands of certain races) - and all of this is topped off by that dangerous appeal of human who is more predator than man.  That would open a lot of doors, even if the house isn't that large, ennobled nor that rich.

I'll explore the economy of the setting and see what I can work out. Though if the family is younger, then there number of full lycanthropes born to each generation will be very high. But the family will also be much smaller. I'm happy to work with that - and Wizards did put out an article to turn lycanthropy into a racial class, so it's easy to work with from a character design perspective wherever we end up.

*spins* Even if you turn my House aside later, I'm looking forward to where this is headed.
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HopeFox

Quote from: Kimmy on December 20, 2014, 06:24:39 AM
Now that I can work with. A merchant family that marries into English society - perhaps to promote their brand, perhaps to expand their lands to produce other kinds of alcohol- that could work rather well. And it also adds a little distaste to their rise, mercenary families aren't always well respected. They probably rescued a titled heiress from poverty. So they have enough wealth and respectability to enter society - but the bigger doors are opened either because their ability to bring in the best alcohol (whether or not it's legal - I can imagine there are trade sanctions against the homelands of certain races) - and all of this is topped off by that dangerous appeal of human who is more predator than man.  That would open a lot of doors, even if the house isn't that large, ennobled nor that rich.

That would be perfect! The rising of the middle class and the descent of many noble estates is one of the events of this period that I want to explore. Marrying an impoverished noblewoman is just the sort of thing I want to see. England is currently at war with France, which does cut England off from one of the best wine sources around, and an Italian outfit that can bring in high quality wine would be very much in demand.

QuoteI'll explore the economy of the setting and see what I can work out. Though if the family is younger, then there number of full lycanthropes born to each generation will be very high. But the family will also be much smaller. I'm happy to work with that - and Wizards did put out an article to turn lycanthropy into a racial class, so it's easy to work with from a character design perspective wherever we end up.

At first glance, I like the look of the werewolf racial class progression. We'd have to work out something about alignment and control and stuff if your character did become a werewolf, but I think we can work with it.

Quote*spins* Even if you turn my House aside later, I'm looking forward to where this is headed.

Me too! This is the kind of thing I like.
If you're such an iconoclast, where were you when we trashed Constantinople?

RubySlippers

I would love to play a half-elven noblewoman trained as a bard ,well for a proper education, and raised among elves of a noble house of that race. Her father some noble who died in the war - a human of good qualities.

Kimmy

#13
Is this going to be a sandbox campaign where we explore your world to suit our own ends? Or will there be a grand plot we can follow?

One consideration is the age of Ladies and Gentlemen entering high society. 16 or 17 is a common age with 15 not being unheard of - but the rules and nature of E probably make it easiest to keep an even 18 as the standard age, with some younger Ladies being allowed the privilege by less strict families.

Edit: kckolbe corrected to point out the site rule is 16+, so ignore me...
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kckolbe

16 is the minimum for site rules, though I know some players prefer 18+.  I'm neutral on this and will go with whatever fits the setting.
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Kimmy

Oh, my bad! I'm muddling my sites up ^^' I imagine with D&D that it helps if races mature at the same rate (or slower) than humans. That at least might be worth noting for convenience sake.
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Muse

Ooh!  Ooh!  Ooh!  Am I too late? 

Veks and the mods addressed the issue of races at different ages not long ago.  If a race matures more slowly, you have to wait 'til equivalent sixteen.  If the race matures more quickly, though, you still have to wait for actual 16. 

I don't mind compromising a little bit of artistic and historical integrity to protect our generous hosts--and this site in general. 
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kckolbe

So how will technology be handled?  Firearms were quite common by this point, after all.
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Angie

I tend to just select my starting age, at least in D&D/Pathfinder.
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Muse

  How experienced would you like us to be at game start, Fox? 

  I can study the setting more and come up with something else, but the exploration of this era would lead in just a few short decades to Darwain's travels in the galapagos.  I'd be interested in playing a sort of gentleman explorer/naturalist.  :) 

Angie, didn't mean to suggest we randomly determine starting ages. 
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Rook Seidhr

After just having spent many hours working on several different character ideas that I then did not get to use because the DM chose to permit mixing in Pathfinder stuff (which BTW I feel is a very bad idea; Pathfinder has different assumptions about the power curve because it discourages multiclassing), my interest in 3.5 is currently tweaked, and this idea sounds crazy enough to be enormous fun!

I do have a couple questions that I ask about all group games, though:

  • What is the minimum expected post size?
  • What is the maximum permitted post frequency?
Because if permitted I will post 15 times a day, and I don't like writing page-length posts.

Angie

#21
Quote from: Riveda on December 20, 2014, 02:15:23 PM
After just having spent many hours working on several different character ideas that I then did not get to use because the DM chose to permit mixing in Pathfinder stuff (which BTW I feel is a very bad idea; Pathfinder has different assumptions about the power curve because it discourages multiclassing), my interest in 3.5 is currently tweaked, and this idea sounds crazy enough to be enormous fun!

I think you misunderstand-Pathfinder ENCOURAGES multiclassing, with the rebalanced half-elves and no XP penalty for multiclassing. But regardless, good to see more people on board!
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Rook Seidhr

Hmm. Browsing charop boards quickly, you seem to be right, Angie…it's not as though I'm an authority onf PF…nonetheless PF classes, the ones I've seen, feel off-kilter for 3.5. And maybe I just hate crossing the streams.

Angie

Quote from: Riveda on December 20, 2014, 02:45:50 PM
Hmm. Browsing charop boards quickly, you seem to be right, Angie…it's not as though I'm an authority onf PF…nonetheless PF classes, the ones I've seen, feel off-kilter for 3.5. And maybe I just hate crossing the streams.

Oh make no mistake, crossing the streams is bad. Converting from 3.5 to PF is easy enough since most stuff got straight ported over anyway, but trying to go 'downstream' is painful.
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RubySlippers

Would you allow the Expert class, NPC, it might fit in best in the setting for many of the normal people if one thinks about it most people with a craft, profession or trade would be that not a character class proper. Just at this point considering my options.