Szan's Opinions and Musings

[Szandor]

I can't believe I'm making a post in this thread, but I have no other possible place to say this besides at one of my University lectures that don't start until February. Also, despite my love for debating and voicing my opinions in a respectful manner, some people are turned off by it. I hate ruining days, so on here my opinions go.

Here are my maybe controversial opinions. All are welcome to oppose, I like to think I'm a respectful human being when it comes to handling criticism.

I'll be discussing Race, then Free Speech, then Safe Spaces. Hot topics.

1.
Your life matters. Every life matters. There are absolutely no exceptions.
When I say absolutely I MEAN absolutely. Even the lives of bad people matter. Death is a terrible thing, and no matter how much of a shitty person you may have been; no one deserves death before their time is up.
Racism is a truly terrible blight on Humanity. But that does not mean that Humanity is doomed. We, as higher thinking animals, have the capability to listen and make informed decisions regarding who we surround ourselves with, and who we allow to get under our skin.

2.
As a citizen of a free country, you are allowed to have your own opinions and values. In fact, it is encouraged that you have these. This does not mean that your opinions cannot be spoken against. Free speech means you cannot be persecuted for your opinions. It does NOT mean you cannot be opposed or asked to provide concrete evidence for this opinion.

3.
Safe spaces are ridiculous when it comes to debating or speaking opinions publicly. If you want to debate someone, be ready for what they might say regarding their stance on what you say. That's what a debate is. You go into it knowing the other person may have a different set of opinions and values. Some people don't like debating, and that's fine. But say that when someone tries to start one with you, instead of running and hiding and complaining that you need a safe space.
In regards to safe spaces in, say, a crowded shopping mall for children and adults with anxiety, ASD diagnoses, etc etc; this is a brilliant idea. As a person who has a niece and nephew who struggle in crowded, chaotic environments; I think a quiet room to calm down in is a brilliant concept. But not everywhere, in every situation. There is a difference between removing yourself to calm down from a situation, and sheltering yourself.

[Skynet]

1. "All Lives Matter" would be a fine phrase if it's original intention wasn't made on the presumption that Black Lives Matter meant "Only Black Lives Matter." Legally speaking people of all races in America are equal; the problem is when said laws are either not enforced or involve social systems which are not part of explicit legal frameworks. Or when politicians create economic policies which don't outright kill, but are detrimental to the quality of life and create a system where some people are hurt more than others.

2. & 3. Safe spaces are more or less in intent a private social group or club. Or an affirmation that bigoted speech won't be accepted. The situation gets hairy when it involves state-funded institutions. A private entity deciding that say, claiming that transgender women are perverted men in drag will get you excluded from their social group, is within the lines of free speech. The problem is that in the United States right-wing groups that all safe spaces are Orwellians-in-training, or interpret freedom of speech to mean "I can say whatever I want and suffer no social consequences."

This is actually a good video regarding the subject.

[Skynet]

Going further, safe spaces explicitly for minority groups are a needed social release valve. If you're a woman who endures sexual harassment regularly from idiotic customers, or a Muslim who lives in a community where Fox News is on in most public spaces claiming that you're a threat to the nation's values, a safe space is a good place to find like-minded folks who "get" you, for lack of a better term. It's not sheltering so much as going "where can I find that 1% when everywhere else is 99%?"

[Lustful Bride]

1. "All Lives Matter" would be a fine phrase if it's original intention wasn't made on the presumption that Black Lives Matter meant "Only Black Lives Matter." Legally speaking people of all races in America are equal; the problem is when said laws are either not enforced or involve social systems which are not part of explicit legal frameworks. Or when politicians create economic policies which don't outright kill, but are detrimental to the quality of life and create a system where some people are hurt more than others.

2. & 3. Safe spaces are more or less in intent a private social group or club. Or an affirmation that bigoted speech won't be accepted. The situation gets hairy when it involves state-funded institutions. A private entity deciding that say, claiming that transgender women are perverted men in drag will get you excluded from their social group, is within the lines of free speech. The problem is that in the United States right-wing groups that all safe spaces are Orwellians-in-training, or interpret freedom of speech to mean "I can say whatever I want and suffer no social consequences."

This is actually a good video regarding the subject.

+1 I feel this was well said and I agree with it.

Going further, safe spaces explicitly for minority groups are a needed social release valve. If you're a woman who endures sexual harassment regularly from idiotic customers, or a Muslim who lives in a community where Fox News is on in most public spaces claiming that you're a threat to the nation's values, a safe space is a good place to find like-minded folks who "get" you, for lack of a better term. It's not sheltering so much as going "where can I find that 1% when everywhere else is 99%?"

But the problem is when people use it as a way to exclude others and as an excuse to lash out.

Such as one college which had an 'African Americans only' safe space, which was removed for not being inclusive to others, and the students responded by getting violent with other students and preventing them from going to class. :/ (I think this happened in 2016, I cant recall what college, just that it was one of those very expensive ones). I know Phillip De Franco covered it but I don't want to comb through 2k videos to find it.

And there are people who just want safe spaces in the sense of wanting things to be straight out of a barney episode where nothing can hurt them to the extreme. I can understand if something triggers PTSD or an old trauma, but at the same time others take it too far. 

Those people ruin what honestly should be a thing to help others. Some people need a place to get away from the world and find some comfort. It shouldn't be an exclusive club but a place to heal and help others overcome what is setting them off or better manage their emotions.  The problem is extremists who just poison the well and make it something negative.

I do think a Safe Space can be a good thing...its just that people have already ruined it before it had a chance to be positive :/

[TheGlyphstone]

Such as one college which had an 'African Americans only' safe space, which was removed for not being inclusive to others, and the students responded by getting violent with other students and preventing them from going to class. :/ (I think this happened in 2016, I cant recall what college, just that it was one of those very expensive ones). I know Phillip De Franco covered it but I don't want to comb through 2k videos to find it.

And there are people who just want safe spaces in the sense of wanting things to be straight out of a barney episode where nothing can hurt them to the extreme. I can understand if something triggers PTSD or an old trauma, but at the same time others take it too far. 

I very vaguely remember the first one...because it struck me as silly that rebranding what could just be an African-American student organization/club became a firestorm of controversy by gluing the 'safe space' label to it. Do the latter sort actually exist, though, or are they a strawman put up by Fox and its cohorts?

[Lustful Bride]

I very vaguely remember the first one...because it struck me as silly that rebranding what could just be an African-American student organization/club became a firestorm of controversy by gluing the 'safe space' label to it. Do the latter sort actually exist, though, or are they a strawman put up by Fox and its cohorts?

I think it was more their actions rather than the label. I can get being upset, but by the time people are in college they are adults, they should start acting like it. There are proper ways to protest and put your grievances up the chain instead of attacking other students and only proving the other side right.

As for the latter. *shrug* I haven't had any real experience myself only hearsay. But if there is anything I have learned its that stereotypes sadly come from somewhere, and no matter how much we throw a fuss there will always be at least one person unironically living a stereotype out and not caring how they affect their own group.

[TheGlyphstone]

More that no one would blink at a university's 'African-American Students Club' only having African-American members. That's utterly mundane. But relabeling it 'Safe Space' instead triggered a firestorm of controversy, and that led to the violent protest nonsense.

As for stereotypes...there are roots that create them, but it doesn't make them true. A desire for somewhere to recover from a PTSD episode can be a truth, that terrible people exaggerate and inflate into hyperbolic 'barney episode chambers where nothing can hurt them', to use your phrasing. Hyperbole of that sort has always been a key weapon in the arsenal of intolerance, and fighting it means puncturing the lies where we find them as well as not spreading them if we can avoid doing so.

[Lustful Bride]

More that no one would blink at a university's 'African-American Students Club' only having African-American members. That's utterly mundane. But relabeling it 'Safe Space' instead triggered a firestorm of controversy, and that led to the violent protest nonsense.

As for stereotypes...there are roots that create them, but it doesn't make them true. A desire for somewhere to recover from a PTSD episode can be a truth, that terrible people exaggerate and inflate into hyperbolic 'barney episode chambers where nothing can hurt them', to use your phrasing. Hyperbole of that sort has always been a key weapon in the arsenal of intolerance, and fighting it means puncturing the lies where we find them as well as not spreading them if we can avoid doing so.

.hmm....I can give you that. :) Perhaps I am unintentionally feeding into the same problem I dislike. But I still hold that there will always be people at the extremes who give life to those stereotypes and that it is also part of the problem.

[Sethala]

Personally, I think what kind of tainted my view of "safe spaces" was that one of my first times hearing about such a thing, was at a rally of some sort outside a college, where someone who wasn't part of "the group" was trying to record what was going on and interview some of the members and was physically shoved out.

Now, I admit that I hadn't thought of using "safe space" (or whatever it could be referred to by) as a way for like-minded individuals to connect with each other based on some shared trait.  So I guess it's on me for letting negativity cloud my judgment of things.  On reflection, I do agree that a place like this wouldn't be a bad idea, within reason.  And if someone were to try and come in to record what was going on in such a place, I'd be perfectly fine with kicking them out.

The event I mentioned earlier, however, wasn't a place like that.  It was an organized rally, with everyone shouting, chanting, holding signs, and so on.  And personally, I think if you're going to do things that draw attention to yourself, you need to be prepared to answer criticisms leveled at your argument.  Such an event wouldn't qualify as a "safe space", in my opinion.

This is actually a good video regarding the subject.

I admittedly didn't notice the video link when I wrote this up.  I was somewhat confused at first because I had no idea who the speaker was, but honestly this explains things in ways that I hadn't considered much before, so thank you.  I don't think I agree with all of her(?) points, but it's something I want to ponder more.

[Skynet]

Personally, I think what kind of tainted my view of "safe spaces" was that one of my first times hearing about such a thing, was at a rally of some sort outside a college, where someone who wasn't part of "the group" was trying to record what was going on and interview some of the members and was physically shoved out.

Now, I admit that I hadn't thought of using "safe space" (or whatever it could be referred to by) as a way for like-minded individuals to connect with each other based on some shared trait.  So I guess it's on me for letting negativity cloud my judgment of things.  On reflection, I do agree that a place like this wouldn't be a bad idea, within reason.  And if someone were to try and come in to record what was going on in such a place, I'd be perfectly fine with kicking them out.

The event I mentioned earlier, however, wasn't a place like that.  It was an organized rally, with everyone shouting, chanting, holding signs, and so on.  And personally, I think if you're going to do things that draw attention to yourself, you need to be prepared to answer criticisms leveled at your argument.  Such an event wouldn't qualify as a "safe space", in my opinion.

Regarding your and Lustful Bride's comment earlier, I believe that you're discussing the University of Missouri protests (the "let's get some muscle over here" teacher)? I feel that scenes like that were handled very poorly, and the organizers hopefully had a hard look at how they set their ideas across. And will admit that incidents like that can and do taint the word usage. But those are still very infrequent incidents that while bad, are picked up by networks. Very few news reporters and YouTubers are going to run a story on a Gay-Straight Alliance student group that isn't tweeting something ridiculous like #killallwhitemen when that won't get the views.

As a result, minority and social justice groups have to answer for their worst advocates as guilt by association for better or worse. Leftist groups do need to do some spring cleaning on their more toxic voices, but a lot of "centrist" and right-leaning peoples' answer to this is to assume anyone who uses the definition are people you see in those "REKT FEMINIST CRINGE COMPILATION" videos.

I admittedly didn't notice the video link when I wrote this up.  I was somewhat confused at first because I had no idea who the speaker was, but honestly this explains things in ways that I hadn't considered much before, so thank you.  I don't think I agree with all of her(?) points, but it's something I want to ponder more.

You're welcome. ContraPoints is my go-to source when it comes to leftist and social justice related topics. I may make a compilation of her best videos as her own thread later.