The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

Started by Mathim, November 18, 2014, 02:35:50 PM

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SapphireStar

Probably. I just came across the article. But, this is what has me scratching my head about what DC is doing between the movies and the tv shows. No one made a sound when Smallville was on at the same time that Supermant Returns came out? Kevin Spacey played Lex Luthor and Brandon Routh played Clark Kent/Superman, and had Lois Lane. Why these big waves regarding characters in two seperate mediums? Because the big name actors are demanding it. DC kept saying the tv shows and Movies are completely seperate. If this keeps happening, the tv shows are going to run out of characters to have on their show.

TheGlyphstone

It does. Methhead Joker is ridiculous, and Harley in Daisy Dukes just doesn't work. Killer Croc had some good makeup in the one cast photo I shot though.

Mathim

Quote from: RedPhoenix on November 21, 2015, 01:16:29 PM
They're already pointing fingers for Suicide Squad failing is how I read it.

God that movie looks awful.

Who's pointing fingers at who? And are their market analysts saying things do not bode well for the film's release or are some people at WB just having an attack of conscience regret for taking something in that direction without establishing their universe more fully before doing a story like this?

Almost done with Jessica Jones. A couple of subplots I could have done without, but they needed 13 episodes' worth of material. But it also has a lot of what I find almost intolerably annoying: People being just downright stupid in ridiculously simple situations. I know the biggest of the show's themes is 'people making bad choices' but for a universe in which an alien attack occurred and a bunch of bizarre-looking superhumans fought them off, the excuse for people's incredulity is paper-thin.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

CaptainNexus616

#1653
I could have done without some of the characters in the show because their presence was pointless.

Don't get me wrong the show is not bad.

I hated Owsley in Daredevil but he played a major role in the events of the story and his character made sense for being there.


On that note David Tenant is simply awesome as Purple Man.
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SapphireStar

The costuming for Suicide Squad looks like something they dug out of the movie warehouse from ghosts of movies past. Killer Shark was just introduced on the Flash and he looked awesome, just like Gorilla Grodd. The tv show has been employing the MOCAP system to bring the charachters to life.

Harley's attire doesn't look like her attire. The makeup looks like it was done in a hurry, and they magic marked playing cards onto her legs. I had expected something along the lines of something like one of the costumes she wore from one of the videogames. The Daddy's Little Monster shirt she wears was something I believe the Joker's Daughter character wore in the comic books.

Mathim

Quote from: SapphireStar on November 21, 2015, 05:32:17 PM
The costuming for Suicide Squad looks like something they dug out of the movie warehouse from ghosts of movies past. Killer Shark was just introduced on the Flash and he looked awesome, just like Gorilla Grodd. The tv show has been employing the MOCAP system to bring the charachters to life.

Harley's attire doesn't look like her attire. The makeup looks like it was done in a hurry, and they magic marked playing cards onto her legs. I had expected something along the lines of something like one of the costumes she wore from one of the videogames. The Daddy's Little Monster shirt she wears was something I believe the Joker's Daughter character wore in the comic books.

Well much as I'd love to see her leap straight from The Animated Series into Suicide Squad, I don't think that would go over well. It's hard enough to figure out a way to make Batman's and Superman's outfits not look totally hokey (they figured out to ditch the undies-on-the-outside thing with Supes, thankfully) but a full-bodied clown unitard and that jester hat and that Arleen Sorkin "Mistah Jay" accent? I think they're doing the best they can to make her look like a crazy bad girl but yeah, they're sacrificing what makes her Harley Quinn in the process. But is it creativity or...laziness? THAT is the question.

Quote from: CaptainNexus616 on November 21, 2015, 04:55:54 PM
I could have done without some of the characters in the show because their presence was pointless.

Don't get me wrong the show is not bad.

I hated Owsley in Daredevil but he played a major role in the events of the story and his character made sense for being there.


On that note David Tenant is simply awesome as Purple Man.

I liked Owlsley, and yes, he was significant, I just liked how he was smarter than anyone gave him credit for so he got to have some intrigue instead of being one-note like Nobu.

There were too many unnecessary characters in Jones' series, I agree. They could have easily folded several of them into one if they felt like it, especially that obnoxious neighbor sister. It just bothers the hell out of me how some people can literally be that stupid, when something so horrific and obviously true is slapping them in the face, they can still manage to do the dumbest thing imaginable and fuck things up for everybody. I would think that would be worse than being mind-controlled into doing horrible things, just knowing your own ineptitude and asinine decision-making is responsible for death and disaster instead of having an excuse that it wasn't your own fault.

I didn't like how they
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
failed to resolve the subplot about how she got her powers, and that cop who is supposed to be modeled after the character Nuke from the comics with the red white and blue pills, and the whole IGH organization (which seems like a nod to Mutant Growth Hormone, a plot point from the Alias comics, and I think we can all guess what the 'I' stands for given how Marvel doesn't own the rights to mutants, but a certain other group of superhumans who call themselves something that starts with 'I'). Now that Kilgrave is dead,
it doesn't seem like Jones' story has even half the amount of steam Daredevil has and so any further seasons of her own show would be (at the very least) unexpected, unless they revolved heavily around her relationship with Luke Cage, being that the comics had that being pretty much the only other significant aspect of her existence, but given that he's got his own show coming up, I highly doubt they'll put her name at the forefront of any more series. She'll probably be a major part of his series and not get any follow-up of her own, if I had to guess. Not that some of her supporting characters aren't interesting but I get the feeling they'd do better dropping many of them and folding the others into Luke Cage and Iron Fist when they are released.

I was also a little disappointed that
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
neither Daredevil nor plain old Matt Murdock ever made a cameo; honestly, from the episode description of the last two, I thought they meant he was going to show up and take down Kilgrave along with them, but it was just Night Nurse/Claire Temple, not that it wasn't pleasant seeing her. I just wish she had some actual healing power so justify how quickly everyone recovers from injuries. Jessica's powers were already dubiously explained as it is.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

SapphireStar

There have been other costume variations. They could have kept elements of her old costume while updating it. Wasn't one version of costume Harley had leather pants one leg red, other black and she wore like a corset top? The costumes don't appear to have had much thought, it just seemed like we'll grab whatever from the wardrobe department or something. At least the costumes used in the Marvel movies have kept pretty true to the characters original attires. I mean, they had a sizable budget to make the movie, where did it all go aside from SFX and the actor's paychecks?

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: SapphireStar on November 21, 2015, 08:15:10 PM
There have been other costume variations. They could have kept elements of her old costume while updating it. Wasn't one version of costume Harley had leather pants one leg red, other black and she wore like a corset top? The costumes don't appear to have had much thought, it just seemed like we'll grab whatever from the wardrobe department or something. At least the costumes used in the Marvel movies have kept pretty true to the characters original attires. I mean, they had a sizable budget to make the movie, where did it all go aside from SFX and the actor's paychecks?

Cocaine. Lots and lots of cocaine. It's the only way to explain some of the decisions they're making.

CaptainNexus616

#1658
Quote from: TheGlyphstone on November 21, 2015, 08:17:52 PM
Cocaine. Lots and lots of cocaine. It's the only way to explain some of the decisions they're making.

Rest In Peace, CaptainNexus616.

Join Date Oct. 2013- Nov. 2015

Died of laughter
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Mathim

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on November 21, 2015, 08:17:52 PM
Cocaine. Lots and lots of cocaine. It's the only way to explain some of the decisions they're making.

Well and not just the execs and stockholders, but the actual people making the movies, in order for them to go along with this and not want to slit their wrists from the guilt of being so faithless to the art form on which these are based.

But seriously, how is it that the majority of folks involved are making bad calls and the presumably few (unless it's unanimous but I find that unlikely) who don't want things to go badly and have good ideas get ignored? Is it a simple majority vote in a board room or what? There has got to be a way to make it so that the morons don't have all the power. But that kind of thinking is what led to the establishment of the electoral college...
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

SapphireStar

Because high powered stars can override those making the movies because they are stars who are getting the twenty million dollar paycheck just to star in the movie. And, if a director or produce is not to their liking they can get them fired. Quite a few stars have been adding executive producer to their titles which then gives them a say in what is used in a movie and what direction to go.

CaptainNexus616

Which can be a very very bad idea if the star is not familiar with source material in comic books movies and just wants to do their own thing.

Dragonball Evolution.

Battleship (Michael Bay film)

are two examples of someone high up the chain just choosing to abandon source material to do their own thing and causing a movie disaster.
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TheGlyphstone

Quote from: CaptainNexus616 on November 21, 2015, 09:36:16 PM
Which can be a very very bad idea if the star is not familiar with source material in comic books movies and just wants to do their own thing.

Dragonball Evolution.

Battleship (Michael Bay film)

are two examples of someone high up the chain just choosing to abandon source material to do their own thing and causing a movie disaster.

Dragonball I'll give you. But while Michael Bay isn't a terribly popular director - just an intelligent and extremely high-grossing one, exactly what source material for Battleship was he ignoring?

CaptainNexus616

*Shrugs* I'll play any board game where I can attack battleships with alien robots!

Meh not the best example but its the one that came to mind.
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TheGlyphstone

#1664
You already had Michael Bay on the brain, but you went with Battleship instead of, say, Transformers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. That's what surprises me.


CaptainNexus616

*Shrugs* Is what is. Guess I consider that one worst than the others.

Back on the subject of Superheroes......

Nearly done with Jessica Jones now and let me say this for anyone planning to watch it. Easily darker than Dardevil...by like ten times!

If anyone here planning to watch it is somewhat squeamish to gruesome deaths...be wary.
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Mathim

Quote from: CaptainNexus616 on November 21, 2015, 10:40:13 PM
*Shrugs* Is what is. Guess I consider that one worst than the others.

Back on the subject of Superheroes......

Nearly done with Jessica Jones now and let me say this for anyone planning to watch it. Easily darker than Dardevil...by like ten times!

If anyone here planning to watch it is somewhat squeamish to gruesome deaths...be wary.

Gosh, yes. I mean, just about every moral conundrum in the book can be found in some form or another throughout, Daredevil literally barely scratched the surface with its 'can a vigilante be a force for good, operating outside the law'? Jones pretty much downplays that in favor of a plethora of other serious noodle-scratching issues where shit is just not as black and white as we would like. I don't think I've ever said this before, but...I really do think females would have a harder time watching this than males, just with the high degree of misogyny witnessed. So that is another recommendation, go in with extra caution if you are not comfortable with a multitude of forms of abuse levied upon women in this series, it's like nothing I've seen outside of really graphic torture porn stuff (like Eli Roth's Hostel and suchlike), and this is like 5 times as long as one of those.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

SapphireStar

#1667
Just read an article regarding the Gambit movie with Channing Tatum. The movie is already plagued with problems. The previous director, left due to creative differences with Channing Tatum. Now it is being reported/rumored that the movie will be a sexy heist/thriller movie with a shirtless Channing Tatum throwing cards.

CaptainNexus616

#1668
What is he trying to do? Did he watch Ant-Man and wanted to do that? Then thought everyone liked him in Magic Mike and go with that as well?

I get this distinct feeling if a He-Man movie is ever cleared that guy will be first in line just so he can go running around in the outfit.
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SapphireStar

Part of the deal for him to be in Gambit was that he was to be made Executive Producer. But, from the various reports it looks like it'll have hints of Magic Mike meets Oceans Eleven type plot. I could believe the heist plot as Gambit is/was a member of the Thieves Guild and Bella Donna (rumored to be played by the actross who played Dr. Swann from Spectre) was a member/leader of the Assassins Guild. He was in both G.I.Joe movies as Duke and his acting was rather flat.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was the first in line for He-Man. Only actor who actually pulled of He-Man was Dolph Lundgren. I seriously can't wait for Deadpool, at least they seem to know what they are doing and staying faithful to the character.

Mathim

Quote from: SapphireStar on November 22, 2015, 08:13:44 AM
Part of the deal for him to be in Gambit was that he was to be made Executive Producer. But, from the various reports it looks like it'll have hints of Magic Mike meets Oceans Eleven type plot. I could believe the heist plot as Gambit is/was a member of the Thieves Guild and Bella Donna (rumored to be played by the actross who played Dr. Swann from Spectre) was a member/leader of the Assassins Guild. He was in both G.I.Joe movies as Duke and his acting was rather flat.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was the first in line for He-Man. Only actor who actually pulled of He-Man was Dolph Lundgren. I seriously can't wait for Deadpool, at least they seem to know what they are doing and staying faithful to the character.

See, that's what gets on my nerves, people are so obsessed with looks that they ignore everything else, and people who don't fit the Channing Tatum appearance category get marginalized, and people are by and large totally okay with this. The status quo is really messed up.

I think their biggest mistake is not drawing on the huge X-Men universe they've already spent so much time building and establishing, since I read that Gambit was supposedly going to be completely self-contained. The worst part of The Wolverine was that is was basically just that...Wolverine. The guy's history is complex but he himself is not that interesting. At all. So not having at least half a dozen other mutants to make things less mind-numbingly dull made any hope of it being entertaining went out the window (not that there weren't tons of other missed opportunities in that one) and if Gambit doesn't try to at least bring in a few players that we haven't seen yet just to try and keep the main character interesting by comparison (Gambit is my favorite mutant, at least power-wise; his personality and backstory are pretty interesting too, though) then that also doesn't bode well for it. We haven't seen Dazzler yet, as far as I can remember, or Avalanche, so a couple of them could certainly help keep things on the interesting side of the spectrum and even help with a heist if they use their powers just right.
Considering a permanent retirement from Elliquiy, but you can find me on Blue Moon (under the same username).

SapphireStar

I happened across an article while surfing the web. It was a sort of what if George Miller had directed the DC movie. They had publicity stills up for Wonder Woman, and Megan Gale, the actress who would've have played her nailed it. Since George Miller dropped out, she went on to appear in Mad Max Fury Road as The Valkyrie. And, if she had played Wonder Woman, it appears she would have the traditional Red, White and Blue colors and the costume would be close to the original.

CaptainNexus616

Quote from: Mathim on November 22, 2015, 08:28:54 AM
See, that's what gets on my nerves, people are so obsessed with looks that they ignore everything else, and people who don't fit the Channing Tatum appearance category get marginalized, and people are by and large totally okay with this. The status quo is really messed up.

I think their biggest mistake is not drawing on the huge X-Men universe they've already spent so much time building and establishing, since I read that Gambit was supposedly going to be completely self-contained. The worst part of The Wolverine was that is was basically just that...Wolverine. The guy's history is complex but he himself is not that interesting. At all. So not having at least half a dozen other mutants to make things less mind-numbingly dull made any hope of it being entertaining went out the window (not that there weren't tons of other missed opportunities in that one) and if Gambit doesn't try to at least bring in a few players that we haven't seen yet just to try and keep the main character interesting by comparison (Gambit is my favorite mutant, at least power-wise; his personality and backstory are pretty interesting too, though) then that also doesn't bode well for it. We haven't seen Dazzler yet, as far as I can remember, or Avalanche, so a couple of them could certainly help keep things on the interesting side of the spectrum and even help with a heist if they use their powers just right.

Well to be fair that was why Wolverine was stuck with the X-men. The group on their own are ok, but they shine better as a team. Wolverine just managed to gain more appeal due to his gruff Anti-hero approach compared to the others. While for some reason Marvel has been trying to run Cyclops into the ground several times in the comic book series.

Makes me glad Fox hasn't given up the rights to X-Men or we would be seeing an X-Men vs. Avengers movie for certain which didn't have the best of resolutions for certain characters.

Still Mathim has suggested this in the past and I like the concept. I think it would be awesome for the final Wolverine movie we see him running into X-23 and Daken or at least one of them. In the comics Logan died and X-23 decided to pick up the mantle and became the new Wolverine and donned her own variant of the outfit. Would be cool to see Hugh Jackman kinda pass on the mantle on screen before retiring from the role even if they don't do anything with it afterwards just kinda like a goodbye and thank you for the fans and such.


In other news now that I have fully finished Jessica Jones, I am ready to give a full spoiler free review of the show.

In truth if you are going to watch it expecting a story similar to Daredevil just stop right there. While there is plenty of action in each episode the core of this series is exploring the characters and how their encounters with each other are affecting them.

Jessica herself is a pretty interesting lead and definitely a different approach to the heroines Marvel has shown in the movies. She's not out to be a hero but still wants to make a difference in life but certain parts of her personality are preventing that her actress even summed it up well that she's not out to become the person to save the city like Matt Murdock was. Her encounter with Kilgrave (The Purple Man in the comics) affected her deeply and there are times you can tell just how far she is willing to go to find him and stop him.

Kilgrave himself? Nothing like Wilson Fisk in comparison to Daredevil again. However David Tennat really did an amazing job making him one of the best villains I have ever seen from Marvel more memorable than half of the movie villains. Kilgrave isn't out to take over the world, or run a crime empire, or destroy. He's more impulsive, he does whatever he wants exactly when he wants too because he can. There are times he will force someone to do something just because they caught him at a bad time.

Luke Cage? They don't get too deep into his backstory (saving it for his own series obviously) other than how Jessica is connected but his presence is impressive and it feels like he does balance Jessica out when they are working together.

However I should warn you that some of the characters present in the show can make you cringe and will make fast forwarding extremely tempting. Including one or two who deliberately screwed things up just when the plot was nearly done to extend the conflict a few more episodes.

The story itself is amazing and really shows a different internal battle going on than the usual here's the bad guy go beat them up and go home at the end of the day scenario we know and see. However several subplots for this show come up at strange intervals and feels like it slows down the pacing at times and even just drag episodes out. It can feel like the story could have ended a few episodes earlier than 13.

I was disappointed that Matt Murdock didn't cameo but to be fair its getting the same treatment as the movies. They are establishing the characters on their own before mingling them with each other. With the obvious exception of Jessica and Luke as their stories are deeply connected in the comics and required to explore for them both to work properly. Plus if Daredevil or even Murdock cameo that would probably be the only thing most would have gotten out of the show and weighed it based on that appearance alone.

Like I said before though however THIS IS NOT FOR THE KIDS WHO LIKE WATCHING SUPERHEROES. If you are squeamish to things like rape being mentioned, gore, graphic scenes, etc. Don't watch it or don't do it on a full stomach at least. Just to give an example?

Kilgrave made one man kill another by blood loss....from sawing the victim's arms off and trying to get rid of them by sticking the bloody limbs down a freaking Garbage Disposal system in the sink! And that is just one example of the extreme deaths he made other people perform.

This show made Daredevil look like a Saturday morning cartoon in terms of dark and graphic elements.


All in all? It was worth watching I will probably not binge watch it as much as I do Daredevil as I personally prefer its setup more. However if you can handle just how dark this show can get and the occasional annoying character by all means queue it up grab a bowl of popcorn and enjoy.
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▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ Sorry, I just dropped my bag of Doritos in my signature again. ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄┐( °ー ° )┌

Deamonbane

Yeah, I tried binge-watching Jessica Jones, and I couldn't do it. It's a very good pace, well shot and while the fight choreography could take a page from Daredevil's book, it's still very intense. I'll stick to watching one episode every other day or something.
Angry Sex: Because it's Impolite to say," You pissed me off so much I wanna fuck your brains out..."

CaptainNexus616

The choreography in JJ made sense to be honest. Daredevil had trained in martial arts for years even after Stick left him to help him take on bad guys.

In Jessica Jones she's more of a brawler no doubt from the many bar fights she has probably been in and may have even started. She knows she is stronger than everyone else and tends to rely on her strength in a fight and tends to drink in the place of training. It was another reason why she has trouble against people other than thugs.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ FLIP THIS TABLE.
┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(°□°ヽ) FLIP THAT TABLE.
┻━┻ ︵ \(`Д´)/ ︵ ┻━┻ FLIP ALL THE TABLES
▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ Sorry, I just dropped my bag of Doritos in my signature again. ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄ ▲ ► ▼ ◄┐( °ー ° )┌