Vampire the Masquerade Mafia [Game Thread] [Day Phase 4]

[yugi006]

Everyone seems shady at this point that I don't even know who to vote for. The ones that seem shady with what they have said are MP, Andy, Remi, Geeklet and possibly Guy. Also the ones who aren't saying much are also shady so I don't even know who to vote for.

[Remiel]

Yugi has a point.  It's entirely likely that the real villains are staying quiet, hoping to fly under the radar.

[Madame Professor]

Because reasons?  ???

Frankly, his crazy behavior has me thinking he is probably Cam, but honestly? I don't trust him with a vote at all.  If we had a Tanner, I'd believe it was Andy in a heartbeat.

The difference between Day 1 and Day 2 is that, there has been plenty of time for someone else to come forward as the Venture Diablerist. And no one has. I did not say I wasn't voting for nobody. I will never vote for nobody because I just don't believe that it's in the best interest of the Camarilla to do so. It's the only true power over the Sabbat we have.

My reasoning is, because it was such a bold move, the chances of Guy being Sabbat are greatly reduced. I just don't see him bringing that much attention to himself if he were Sabbat.

So, yes it is always a good idea to lynch somebody, just not anybody. You are just picking out pieces and not looking at the whole picture.

I do agree that spite voting isn't good... "I'm voting for them because they voted for me," isn't an educated guess.

[persephone325]

Yugi has a point.  It's entirely likely that the real villains are staying quiet, hoping to fly under the radar.

* persephone325 yells extremely loudly to make her presence known

[yugi006]

Well at this point in time Persephone isn't all that suspicious at all to me but that can change.

[AndyZ]

Guy wants to be staked if the majority of people want him to be staked.  Therefore, I will vote guilty if he's on the stand.  Cam will lose a vote, but we'll know with certainty that there is no other Diablerist.

For reasons I've already explained to Seranova, I'll trust people who have made claims over those who have not made claims, which includes Remiel, theLeslie and Guy.  Geeklet, who has not claimed a role, is going after Remiel.

At this point, I'll honestly go after anyone who hasn't given a role yet.  As Mappy has said, we need to stake someone.

If I have no data and am forced to make bricks without clay, don't be surprised when the bricks are made out of something stinky.

[Geeklet]

Remiel has yet to claim a role, though.

[yugi006]

Not claiming a role is not a reason to go after them. If asked to claim a role everyone will just say Camarillaso there is no point to claim a role unless you have a special role and those with special roles may not want to say anything cause it will paint a target on them.

[Intimate Ink]

(It's very difficult for me to justify voting a lynch on someone who has came forward as the Ventrue when they have yet to have a challenger come forward.  It's a bold move for Guy, granted, but I can see where someone's thought frame might be if they did such a thing.

I suppose if the Harpy promotion comes through we could resolve it easily enough, since it entails a reveal of "sides".  I'm not a big fan of the idea of using resources on such a thing, though, because if he comes out exactly as he says we have traded both a day's lynching AND a valuable resource (Harpy power) in exchange for verifying a single piece of information.

I'm a bit confused how we will know that there "is no other Diablerist" if Guy is staked or not at this point?  My understanding is all that is revealed by Blythe is what his PERCEIVED affiliation is, which if he is lynched, is going to be 'Sabbat' regardless if it is true or not.  If that is not the case it would completely invalidate the strategy in the Wraith role that Blythe has laid forward.  Our only guaranteed sources of pinpointing affinity are the Harpy power, and, obviously, the Sabbat victims.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but as it stands, a vote for Guy just doesn't make sense to me.  That's not to say it won't, but I need more than that.  If I have stated a rule understanding erroneously, I very much welcome a correction.)

[AmberStarfire]

Not claiming a role is not a reason to go after them. If asked to claim a role everyone will just say Camarillaso there is no point to claim a role unless you have a special role and those with special roles may not want to say anything cause it will paint a target on them.

Agreed and I happen to think that the appropriate answer to being told you ought to disclose your role is 'no'. If anyone wants to then that's up to them, but what I do is up to me.

[Galactic Druid]

I will actually vouch for Andy.  Because of reasons.

Geeklet is as shady as balls at this point.  Her accusation of me was extremely bold, and painted a huge target on both of our backs.  I thought for sure that either she or myself would have been targeted during the night.

Sunshine Sparkle was certainly an interesting choice for the Sabbat.  The only thing we know about Sunshine is that she nominated Madame Professor for Sheriff.   Therefore, either Madame Professor is Sabbat (which is extremely likely since she's always picked to be the villain in these games) or someone's trying to set her up.

Did you just suggest that we target someone because they tend to get bad guy roles in other games?

I'd be okay with the logic of targeting someone because they're dangerous if they're evil, but not because the "odds are good" that they're evil because they've been evil before.

I know you know this too, Remi. You shady as hell this game.

[Mintprincess]

(Ooc a bit. Today was super awful rough at work.   I read this but want time to digest a little before I make my post.  Just wanted everyone to know I'm literally spent.  I work in a chemical plant.  Enough said. Be back soon with actual 'stuff')



(And probably should have put this in ooc.  Brain is not working. Everyone is shady.  #dead. )

[AndyZ]

Well, obviously no one is going to vote for Geeklet, so I change my vote to Madame Professor.

[Seranova]

I'm not saying that Geeklet and MP aren't evil, as I do not know, but the reasons given for them being suspect are in and of themselves suspect.

Remi, you know better. This is like my shaky logic of "I'm always the good guy" whenever we come into games like this. Past games mean nothing. MP could be evil and I could be good, but none of that is based on prior plays.

Andy, I'm not sure why you're so stuck on this role-call nonsense that doesn't actually happen much in multi-night games, or why you're employing the pray and spray tactic with voting patterns, but I'm about ready to vote for you because you're legitimately the most suspicious at this point.

Geeklet... Wear bigger heels.

[Geeklet]

Geeklet... Wear bigger heels.

Finally, an argument I can get behind!

[AndyZ]

I wonder if anyone else even notices the inherent contradiction here.

The Camarilla has 11 members, but the Sabbat has 4 members.  Moreover, the Sabbat are organized in that each of them know who the others are.  That means that as soon as the Camarilla loses 7 people, it's outright impossible for the Camarilla to win.

The only actual ways for the Camarilla to get information are as follows: the Toreador can check one person, the Bodyguard can protect the targeted Camarilla, or the Malkavian can find one of the three Sabbat that can actually be found.  None of these people want to reveal, and we have no idea of anything they found by the time they die.

We've already lost one special role, and we don't know which one.  I'd say there's somewhere around 50% odds that our Seer is already dead, in which case we're going to spend an eternity arguing.  We have 4 knowledgeable people corralling 11 chickens with their heads cut off and who can freely converse with each other to make sure that they don't give themselves away through voting patterns.

So if we're going to pick someone, it's going to be pretty much random. 

To that end, I'd suggest someone who hasn't been talking at all.  Rel Mayer and Christa both fit that role.  Who would you suggest going after?

[Galactic Druid]

The Camarilla has 11 members, but the Sabbat has 4 members.  Moreover, the Sabbat are organized in that each of them know who the others are.  That means that as soon as the Camarilla loses 7 people, it's outright impossible for the Camarilla to win.

Actually, once they're in equal numbers, the Sabbat just plain win, and that's assuming we lose 7 Camarilla in a row without a single Sabbat kill. Plus we still have roles that might keep players alive, etc. It's not as one sided as you might think. We've still got a good chance. Losing one special role isn't doom.

The only actual ways for the Camarilla to get information are as follows: the Toreador can check one person, the Bodyguard can protect the targeted Camarilla, or the Malkavian can find one of the three Sabbat that can actually be found.  None of these people want to reveal, and we have no idea of anything they found by the time they die.

Not true, there's voting patterns, social clues, alliances in PMs, and more. There's more ways that information gathering can happen besides a public reveal of a special role. I mentioned this in my first post; the only time a special cam should reveal is if it's to save a member of their team, or to guarantee a Sabbat kill. Even I followed this rule; I was hoping someone might try to counter my claim to lycanhood and we'd catch an easy kill. Sure, I'd have to go down with them, but losing my role is a small price to pay for a dead Sabbat. It's much more likely the Seer would reveal only to a person they would trust in PM than openly in thread, no matter what the case may be.

We've already lost one special role, and we don't know which one.  I'd say there's somewhere around 50% odds that our Seer is already dead, in which case we're going to spend an eternity arguing.  We have 4 knowledgeable people corralling 11 chickens with their heads cut off and who can freely converse with each other to make sure that they don't give themselves away through voting patterns.

Okay, where do you get that math from, exactly? There's 4 special roles (not counting mine), and the Sabbat know about as much about the Cam as the Cam do about them. I see a 25% chance that we've lost our Seer.

So if we're going to pick someone, it's going to be pretty much random. 

To that end, I'd suggest someone who hasn't been talking at all.  Rel Mayer and Christa both fit that role.  Who would you suggest going after?

That's hardly going random, though I would agree that going for the quiet ones is a good idea, if that wasn't like your 4th proposal for lynching this day. You have me more than a little suspicious, Andy.

[Blythe]

GM Note: More than half the players (a majority) seem to be fine with adding the Toreador Harpy, and I had no one that actually objected that I know of. I will be randomly determining who receives this role re-assignment via a diceroll. The text of what the Harpy can do is in the OOC thread in the role-listings. Anyways, carry on with gameplay here! I'll make a list with what the votes are and who has yet to vote some time late tonight.

Edit: And done; role re-assigned. Carry on!

[theLeslie]

I would like to spend my xp on Auspex 2, please, and start being a lie detector...   pretty please?

[Mintprincess]

Ok, of all the posts so far, Guys actually makes the most sense to me.   I had started something earlier on the computer but never finished it and I've work tomorrow thanks to today events.

I think Andy is being shady, but I also don't know that I believe him to be sabbat the way he's drawing so much attention to himself.  I feel like he wouldn't play that way, so I lean to him being good, but I also question all of his logic, given that he's changed his mind 5 times, and changed his allies from let's be friends to I would vote you out to let's be friends.  So I'm not going to vote for him.  But I'm not going to listen to him either. 

I would almost agree with the quiet under the radar type as well, but that may be a function of schedule more than play style. [/i] May be.[/i].

I need to take a closer look at who has said what, and really narrow down my choices.  I can say I believe guy at this point, and won't be voting for him.  I feel like Remiel is being targeted for trying to give info while being vague, Geeklet's claim was really bold - Remy had to vote for someone - and somewhere that whole mess got started off the assumptions from the role mistakes. (Remy's or geeky's?). 

I almost want to cast the shade on those people who are really saying nothing at all.  It's like they are trying to be active but not really posting anything.  I also found it shady that Leslie basically threw her sheriff vote away by casting it for MP, who couldn't possibly get it given leslie was the last vote and MP only had one, but doing so also ensured that geeky didn't meet with a tie from myself or Rel.  why not just vote for Geeklet outright then?

So I think I'm leaning to Leslie or the quiet ones based on all this.

And I totally didn't expect to phone type this much! Sleepy time!

[Madame Professor]

At this moment, my vote is to Remiel. Guy's post pretty much lines up with my thoughts. Voting nobody day when, even though he knows it only favors the Sabbat and then his reasoning for me... his tactics this game have just been suspicious.

While Andy is SUPER erratic... I feel like it would be a poor tactic for a Sabbat to bounce around like that. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him... probably poor choice of words as we are all vampires, but still... I think he is dangerous with his erratic voting... but I don't think he is Sabbat.

Remi, though...

[Mintprincess]

Ok so I noticed that it's actually been 48 hours and we are supposed to have voted so I'm just going to throw mine down as well:


theleslie for the shady shade I mentioned above.   I'm not ready to take the risk on Remy being someone important we need to keep around, I don't know that I'm ready to vote on a new sheriff, and I think Guy and Andy are probably good for again the reasons that I gave above.   

[yugi006]

At this point my vote will be for Andy since he is being so shady and add to the fact that he will vote with Remi and Guy if they vote for the same person.

[AmberStarfire]

I'm going to vote for Rel.

It's not that she hasn't been on Elliquiy and she's quiet. Maybe she's keeping quiet on purpose (because lynching or a shadier reason) or maybe she's not as involved with the game.

[Clio]

Alright. I know I've been quiet, but I've been a little unsure of what to say. I am Camarilla, but I feel like I should be careful of how much information I give out.

As for my vote, I was going back and forth until Andy made that comment about Guy and Remi. I'm going to put in my vote for Andy.