A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed FULL)

Started by Zaer Darkwail, December 08, 2011, 06:13:43 AM

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Snake

Disregard,

Kunoichi

Quote from: Karasu on January 05, 2012, 06:23:41 AM
mm That sounds interesting.. Lets do it! ^^

Alright.  Again, though, will you be going for a Devil, or a Demon with this character?

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on January 05, 2012, 07:23:53 AM
*cough* 10th-level sorcerer. *cough*

Yes, but she still gets to have a caster level of 21.  Which is useful for long-term buffs and the class features of certain prestige classes.

Karasu

mm Probably the more good one.. whichever that is XD So probably Hell XD
SEEKING Undertale/Deltarune RP, PM to discuss details.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Karasu on January 06, 2012, 02:08:18 AM
mm Probably the more good one.. whichever that is XD So probably Hell XD

More good? We are talking about the fundamental embodiments of Evil here. Their flesh is made of of malecules surrounded by evilectrons.

At least Chaos is honest about its intentions to eventually betray you, and you get to have fun in the process.

Sahariel

Hey guys,

I have one more question. Are we required to take the same skill and feat spread as the base template? I know we need to keep the base stats but is any variation in skills or feats permitted?

Karasu

SEEKING Undertale/Deltarune RP, PM to discuss details.

Kunoichi

Quote from: Sahariel on January 06, 2012, 06:54:27 AM
Hey guys,

I have one more question. Are we required to take the same skill and feat spread as the base template? I know we need to keep the base stats but is any variation in skills or feats permitted?

Yes, you're allowed to mess with skills and feats however you want.  Which is a good thing, since most monsters have terrible feat selection, and skill choices are usually above average at best...

Quote from: Karasu on January 06, 2012, 09:34:17 AM
oki lemme put it anoter way.. Mroe lawful XD

Alright, so you're going for the Devilish side of things.  Which means we don't have to worry about giving you immunity to Fire or Poison, or look for Telepathy.

The best use for a Dragon's spellcasting, and the one most dragons put their spellcasting to, is a gish build, wherein your innate magical talents are used to reinforce and boost your own melee abilities.  As a result, it would probably be best to go for templates and prestige classes that do the same.

Do you want to work for one of the other players, or strike out on your own?

Sahariel

Quote from: Kunoichi on January 06, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
Yes, you're allowed to mess with skills and feats however you want.  Which is a good thing, since most monsters have terrible feat selection, and skill choices are usually above average at best...

Hey thanks again Kunoichi, how's your game going so far?



Karasu

Quote from: Kunoichi on January 06, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
Alright, so you're going for the Devilish side of things.  Which means we don't have to worry about giving you immunity to Fire or Poison, or look for Telepathy.

The best use for a Dragon's spellcasting, and the one most dragons put their spellcasting to, is a gish build, wherein your innate magical talents are used to reinforce and boost your own melee abilities.  As a result, it would probably be best to go for templates and prestige classes that do the same.

Do you want to work for one of the other players, or strike out on your own?

What on earth is a Gish Build?

And likely I might have him a loner at first, but I do encourage others to try and tempt him to work for them.
SEEKING Undertale/Deltarune RP, PM to discuss details.

TheGlyphstone

A "Gish" is a fighter-mage, typically a melee warrior who augments themselves with buff spells, rather than slinging spells at enemies from range.


Snake



Snake

Using magic to back up or alter physical ability (IE Gish) I think it's a good idea. if you have the ability to do it right why not?

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Snake on January 07, 2012, 11:30:09 AM
Using magic to back up or alter physical ability (IE Gish) I think it's a good idea. if you have the ability to do it right why not?

No one's even vaguely implied it's a bad idea. In fact, for dragons it's a phenomenal idea as we've recommended, because they don't have the spell slots or caster level to match a real mage in combat, but are still melee brutes who can be even nastier with some well-chosen buffs. What could have possibly given you the idea we were saying it was bad?

Snake

I've always heard doing it was consistently downplayed by more....hardcore players. 

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Snake on January 07, 2012, 11:39:54 AM
I've always heard doing it was consistently downplayed by more....hardcore players.

What does that have to do with what we actually said?

QuoteA "Gish" is a fighter-mage, typically a melee warrior who augments themselves with buff spells, rather than slinging spells at enemies from range.
QuoteArcane strike

Snake

Sorry it just made me have a flash of deja vu from reading an article on character building yesterday.

TheGlyphstone

Well, from a strict power perspective, you're right - spellcasting is superior to melee in terms of its ability to eliminate opponents, which is what most fights come down to. So a Gish is 'worse' from a levelling perspective than a pure spellcaster because it delays access to the gamebreakers of top-end spells, but better than a mundane melee because MAGIC. If you start at a high level, though, a Gish is superior to a standard spellcaster because they have 9th level spells and the ability to stab things in the face for the one-in-a-million occasion where a spell won't do the job. They're still 'worse' than the most powerful of pure spellcasting classes, but that's pushing the boundary between PO and TO so it's neither here nor there.

TLDR: The more magic you have, the more powerful you are. Gishing slows your access to more magic, so it's less powerful, unless you start high enough level where it doesn't matter, in which case it becomes more powerful.

Snake

So it's kind of " jack of all trades" type thing? Experienced in many things butmaster of none?

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Snake on January 07, 2012, 12:17:11 PM
So it's kind of " jack of all trades" type thing? Experienced in many things butmaster of none?

Not really, that's more the province of skillmonkey classes like the bard or rogue. Magic in 3.X is just that good and flexible, that if you're experienced with magic, you're experienced with everything else too. A fully powered gish is a full spellcaster who is also capable of mixing it up in melee - pure spellcasters aren't capable of melee, but they're so ridiculously powerful that they don't need to melee to accomplish anything.

So it's more Power+ than Jack-of-All-Trades - a Gish at endgame is just as powerful as a full caster, but during the grind from low to high levels, they have lower magical proficiency and higher melee proficiency. Because magic > melee, that equates a net loss, but it's relatively minor...with magic, you'll still vastly outclass a mundane, and you've got all the magic tricks a pure spellcaster can pull out (if a few less/day most likely).


Kunoichi

Draconomicon even has some excellent Sorcerer/Wizard spells designed specifically for upping a Dragon's melee ability.

Though, given the limit on spellcasting in this game, it might be worth it to pick up the Monster of Legend template's Cleric casting, to go with the innate Sorcerer casting.  Steel Dragons do have a higher Wisdom score than their Charisma, after all.  Use the class levels to progress it, maybe via something like the Dweomerkeeper prestige class (found in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement) and you could have access to some good arcane and divine melee buffs. ^^

Just imagine a dragon making use of Righteous Might...

TheGlyphstone

Dragons already have full BAB (as do Outsiders), so Righteous Might would do a lot less for one than you'd think.

Karasu

sounds pretty freaking awesome to me. Can you make the sheet? (Sucks at it >.<)
SEEKING Undertale/Deltarune RP, PM to discuss details.

Kunoichi

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on January 07, 2012, 02:29:42 PM
Dragons already have full BAB (as do Outsiders), so Righteous Might would do a lot less for one than you'd think.

Righteous Might doesn't do anything to BAB at all, though.  It increases size and adds alignment-based DR.

Quote from: Karasu on January 07, 2012, 02:31:47 PM
sounds pretty freaking awesome to me. Can you make the sheet? (Sucks at it >.<)

I could, but it'll take me a little while, since school's back in session. ^^; I also won't be able to do anything on Myth-Weavers, or whatever online sheet site you prefer.  It'll just be a basic text sheet, like the ones I made for my characters.