Golden Sky Stories

[Kaedia]

So who all has heard of this?

For those of you that haven't it's a work-in-progress tabletop game currently being translated and just hit kickstarter today. It's a japanese tabletop so for people top which means it's not big on dice; you mostly just use a D6 and nothing else. It's a described as a heart-warming game. It's about sentimental things and making friends. Nothing adult rated about it.

Anyways... I'm REALLY happy for this! I've been waiting for two years for them to translate the rulebook! The release date kept getting pushed back for various reasons... and now they actually hit Kickstarter today for real! I'm giddy!

So... anyone else excited or am I the only one? If you'd like to read more about it check out -- http://kck.st/11lNSZ8 -- it gives several links that detail the story and what the game is like as well as a transcript of a game that was played. I can't wait to get my hands on the book and play out a story!

Today is a good day.

[ReijiTabibito]

First Tenra Bansho ZERO, now this...seems video games aren't the only thing making their way to the US from Japan, anymore.  Not that I'm complaining!

[Kaedia]

Tenra Bansho ZERO... I've heard that name...

Oh yeah! That's the game the translating team was talking about when it was on KS. I didn't have any spare moniez at the time or I would have donated to that project. Golden Sky Story really hits my sweet spot. A non-combat tabletop that is just about having fun. Also you get to have transforming abilities! Pretty awesome I say. When I got up today I looked at the calendar... "The 18th... something was suppose to happen today... ... ... Golden Sky Stories!" I had to jump on my computer right away to see if it actually happened! I was so happy to see it had. I actually plan on hosting a session when it comes out so I'm really super giddy to see it finally in the funding stage!

[Chris Brady]

Golden Sky Stories, that the one where you're a spirit animal?  Like Kitsune and Tanuki?

[Kaedia]

That's the one! Pretty much at least. You play as animals with the ability to take on human forms. You can play humans too but I can't recall if its in the main book or a supplement book coming out later...

[ReijiTabibito]

Normally, I'm not one for Kickstarter, but this might be something I support.

[Chris Brady]

That's the one! Pretty much at least. You play as animals with the ability to take on human forms. You can play humans too but I can't recall if its in the main book or a supplement book coming out later...

It's a supplement.  They (on another forum) were talking on getting it licensed over to the West, glad it is.  We need more gaming stuff, and frankly some of Japan's stuff is cute and just quirky enough to be worth it.

[Kaedia]

They were also talking about adding some of the supplement into the translated main book a few months back. Don't know if the idea got scrapped or not. I know they got permission to add one of the supplement henges to the main book but beyond that I haven't heard anything.

In other news in less the KS has been up for roughly five hours if my math is right and it has already reached its goal of $7,000. Anything else added will be toward the stretch goals with 32 days to go. Pretty awesome!

[ReijiTabibito]

http://yarukizerogames.com/tag/golden-sky-stories/

Found a page which talks about the canon characters of the setting.  I'm already loving the sound of the Fox character.  ^_^

[Chris Brady]

If I had the money...  I would.

[Blank]

Dang it, I didn't want to see this post.  >_< I want to be off my kickstarter kick, not to get back on it.  I've already been resisting the temptation to get a high endurance hoodie from there.

*sigh* I'll sit on this and see how much I want it later.

[Kaedia]

Just to give an update since I just woke up and checked the project... they are now 25 hours from the time they started. They set out to reach $7,000. They have reached $16,500. There is still 31 days to go.

I'm pleasantly surprised.

[ReijiTabibito]

Never underestimate the power of the Internet.  We will sign up for anything.  I'm fully expecting to get to their final goal - $18k - and still have people pledging.

They might have to come up with new goals!

[Kaedia]

They already are funny enough! In his last update the head of the team said he was vastly underestimating the steam in the engine with this one. He's spent part of the morning contacting people who can help add more to it as well as create a limited $100-200 goal and potentially a limited edition hardcover. He really wanted to hit $15,000 he said yesterday due to printer fees being lessened if he hit a certain amount and... well... it's looking like he got his wish and then some. It's what happens when you tease us with something for a year and a half!

[ReijiTabibito]

To a certain degree, I think it's because GSS promises something much different than what your standard RPG is these days.  I'm part of an IRL group, and I recently asked the players around the table what the most important part of their experience is.  If I could do one and only one thing right, what should it be?

Their answer was unanimous: storytelling.

They don't care about combat (in fact, two of my players hate it), they aren't worried about the complexity of a given system (except in one case), what they want are really good stories.

You look at MMORPGers these days (to use Yahtzee's phrase), and it's (mostly) WoW clones wherever you look, with combat as a central mechanic.

Zef, have you heard of Aspirations of Harmony?

[Kaedia]

That's how I am. Combat is trivial to me when it comes to table-top. I don't even dislike it. I see it as a storytelling adventure. What I hate is having dice dictate if my character succeeds or fails. That grinds my gears. You roll a D20 for this, a D10 for that, oh a D3 for that, etc, etc, etc. It makes it feel more like a game about throwing dice than it does about playing. I was in a RL DnD group for about a month before I had to call it quits. We met twice a week and at the end of the month I knew I couldn't stand another minute of it.

The thing about GSS I really like is it is a non-dice based story. It's about playing out a story between characters. It's not about letting dice dictate your fate. It's a no dice game.

I haven't heard of Aspirations of Harmony. Does it taste good?

Oh! Also found out the character classes in the setting after slapping myself due to my friend pointing it out in the most obvious fashion...

The core book has six classes; rabbit, dog, bird, raccoon, fox, and cat.

One of the latest milestones reached added the first supplement to the mix which includes; Michinoke (Road Monsters), Kappa, Oni, Ghosts, and Visitors (Aliens)

[ReijiTabibito]

When I sit down, depending on the system, I always try and have a couple of possible combat encounters for the group in a given session.  This my players know.  They also know that sometimes I'll pull a change-up and have a session with no combat possible.  Either because A: their conflict can't be solved by hitting it in the face, or B: any combat would be irrelevant.  Either the power level of the players is far beyond the enemy, or the enemy is so powerful fighting them is suicide.

Aspirations of Harmony is a fan-designed RPG based on the recent My Little Pony cartoon.  It has combat as a feature, but it's designed to tell MLP stories, primarily.  It's fairly good, and since it's fan-designed, you can download for free.  There are dice involved (though highly limited in comparison to D&D), and a little bit of math involved, though.

And yeah, I actually found a sheet posted online for rabbit-type characters.  Though I want to see the fox, I love their pregenned Fox character.  She's precious!

[Chris Brady]

I love a good paced combat, but I also enjoy a lot of in character interaction.  Gaming and stories work best with conflict, and conflict can happen from many things, from physical altercations to simple disagreements, but the one thing games and stories need is conflict, a challenge to over come.

[Kaedia]

Rabbit is one of my favorite as well of the ones I know about. I know absolutely nothing about the fish, pony, witch, mouse, wolf, and anything in the supplement. The witch really has my hopes up. I love playing witches.

Speaking of My Little Pony the $18,000 stretch reward was four alternate worlds created just for the project. One of them includes a My Little Pony version of Golden Sky Stories. That may be interesting though I'm more fond of the Faerie Skies or Fantasy Friends.

You can do slice-of-life stories that really don't have conflict but it's just playing out 'a day in the life of' but all players have to be of like mind and I find most players prefer a degree of conflict in the story. It's not a requirement for me. The GSS conflict is each scene revolves around a single (or sometimes multiple) people who are trying to solve a problem. I know I've done stories before that lack any real conflict and I enjoyed them and the people I played with enjoyed it but we knew beforehand that we would. Conflict adds spice though.

[ReijiTabibito]

GSS finished its Kickstarter.  The initial goal was $7,000.  Final total?  $85,266 from 2,350 backers.  It was ~1200% funded.

In your face, D&D!  We don't need no stinking combat to have good roleplaying!

[Avis habilis]

In a similar vein, I'd like to see an English language version of Ryuutama. In a D&D style world, rootless adventurers wanders the world helping the commoners & fixing their stuff rather than killing monsters & taking their stuff.

[Chris Brady]

GSS finished its Kickstarter.  The initial goal was $7,000.  Final total?  $85,266 from 2,350 backers.  It was ~1200% funded.

In your face, D&D!  We don't need no stinking combat to have good roleplaying!

It's also not a High Fantasy game.  I'd like to point out that E is a prime example of not needing combat to have good roleplaying as well.

Please don't bash other games.

[Kaedia]

It's also not a High Fantasy game.  I'd like to point out that E is a prime example of not needing combat to have good roleplaying as well.

Please don't bash other games.

Online roleplay is a bit of a special case. It's more story-telling. The western tabletop scene has been dominated by combat based games since what feels like forever with Dungeons and Dragons (and the million clones people create and try to sell off) being the most popular. It has been the public face of table-tops for decades. It has gotten to the point if you want to do an in-person group it's a struggle to find anyone willing to do anything other than a rehash of Dungeons and Dragons or some other form for the meaty combat. What Reiji is saying is you don't have to be a rehash of Dungeons and Dragons to be a success contrary to popular belief. You can break the mold and still be a success as scary as it sounds. The biggest thing to note E and table-tops are two different beasts. I know E does variations of table-top games but it's not the same beast.

I had a talk with the translator of Golden Sky Stories and he said it blew his mind how much support they got. They went in pretty sure they'd get minimal funding and then one month later they had $85,000 of a needed $7,000. It was mind boggling.

It's in no way 'new dawn' for western table tops but it is a demonstration that change can work and people, on some level, want change. I'm glad it happened.

[ReijiTabibito]

What Zef said.  For good and for ill, Dungeons & Dragons (and its predecessor, Chainmail) has largely set the tone for tabletop RPGs of the pencil-paper variety.  Not necessarily in the setting department, but definitely in the content (ie, mechanics and what the players to do reach their goals, etc etc).

I belong to an IRL RP group.  When I joined, we did 3.5 every week.  Eventually, though, the GM got worn out and talked about trying to pull back on the campaign a bit.  Seeing a chance (and tired of hearing 'Roll for Initiative'), I stepped in, offering to the group a handful of systems that weren't D&D.  One of those systems - CthulhuTech - is the subject of my current campaign, and one I've been running for a couple of years, whose story is supposed to conclude around this time next year.

Now, the systems I laid out, and have brought to the group, almost always have three things in common.  1: they take place in the modern day or later (though I have one major exception to this rule).  2: Experience is handed out at the end of the night, regardless of what happens (IE, you don't need to kill things to level up).  And 3: conflict resolution with other living beings is usually solved by punching it in the face.  Repeatedly.

Note I said 'usually.'  I'm a big fan of solutions to problems that don't require the player characters to be prime-grade ass-kickers.  My players know that every so often, I'll throw a problem at them that they need to solve without combat.  Usually by telling them that if they screw up, an entire army will be coming down their throats.

The noncombat approach is big amongst two of my players - one because he likes playing the intellectual types that, sure, carry a gun for protection, but they're less the party machinegunner and more the party library; the other because he likes being creative and mixing up his solutions - sometimes you punch it in the face, and sometimes you shank their tires and make sure when he calls the car service the person who picks him up is a "friend."

One guy in my group, who has since moved away (job reasons), came to our sessions for the combat.  We could tell.  If we spent three-quarters of the night between a handful of fights, he was happy.  If we spent less than half the night, he was anxious.  And I've only seen him leave the group happy once when it was a pure roleplaying night.  He was there to kill things, period.

Back when I first started playing, the phrase 'hack and slash' was often used to describe D&D and its various analogues.  Because it so focused on conflict resolution through combat, and not necessarily through other means. 

Now, I'm not deriding D&D.  D&D did a lot to bring generations of RPers to the table (including everyone at my table except me), and that it has withstood time as well as it has (with a few updates) is testament to it.

But it's not what I prioritize in RPing.  Roleplaying is about telling stories: whether it be the thousandth and one rehash of the Hero's Journey (such as Star Wars), or an epic tale of revenge (The Count of Monte Cristo), or a tale about how we can overcome our difficulties and flaws and rise above what we are now (pretty much every spirit-raising movie ever, though I usually cite Remember the Titans).

I am not usually one to do one-off adventures.  When I write a campaign, there is always an A plot and a B plot going through it.  Sometimes a C plot.  And every session, I do something to advance one of those plots.  My table has called me three things: "the J Michael Straczynski of the table," "the guy with all the other systems," and "the blind, backwards-shooting archer."  (Long story, that last one.)

My group knows that I bring stuff that's not D&D to the table all the time.  In my time there, I've brought the following different systems to the table: CthulhuTech; Marvel Universe RPG (NOT Marvel Super Heroes); Final Fantasy RPG (3rd ed); Dresden Files RPG; Adeptus Evangelion; Shadowrun; Exalted; Scion; Eclipse Phase; Remnants; Strike Legion.  That's more than 10 different systems (though you could argue that Exalted and Scion are the same mechanics-wise).

And yet, even with all of this, I got looks when I brought the Kickstarter page to the table.  I even played the little recorded video.  And the best way I can sum up their reactions are in the following phrases: "We'll have to read it when you get your hands on it," and "This is weird, even for you."

I'm not hating on D&D.  I'm not.  But I am saying we need to have a paradigm shift in what we think of as roleplaying.

[Blank]

I wrote up a big ol' post about indi-developed table top games, but I was worried it would come out as me being a pretentious jerk.  I'll cut it down to the important bit: out of curiosity, what games have you all played outside of D&D?  Because there is a lot of good stuff out there right now that if you look past the behemoth that is D&D.

[ReijiTabibito]

I've played pretty much every system I have in my library. However, the degree to which I understand and can work with the rules and systems vary.  So that you can have an actual list in your hand, I'll elaborate.

GM Level - These are the systems that I'm very, very familiar with.  I'd have no problems writing stories and setting up challenges for my players, and I pretty much can use every mechanic in the game that the authors have included.  They are the following:

Big Eyes, Small Mouth; CthulhuTech; Marvel Universe RPG; Scion; Shadowrun (3rd and 4th eds); Old World of Darkness - Werewolf, Mage, and Kindred of the East lines.

Co-GM Level - Systems that I can certainly run and play...but I'm probably going to leave a mechanic or two out of it in the process of running it.  If you want my rationales for these, ask me via PM.  I'd love to talk to ya about it.

Dresden Files RPG; Exalted; Serenity RPG; Old World of Darkness - Hunter & Mummy lines.

[Player Level] - This level, if I had any RPGs that I would associate with it, would be where I was comfortable enough with the mechanics to play it...but running it would not be a pleasant prospect for me.

Prepared to Play Level - These are the systems that I've done a ton of reading on, and am sure I could play, if not GM...but I don't have even one play session of this under my belt.

Adeptus Evangelion; Dark Champions; Remnants; Strike Legion.


And then there is the RP that gets a level all to itself...Eclipse Phase.  It's a great and simple enough system...but there's a shit-ton of things going on in both the flavor and the universe, for being only the solar system, is so huge that I can't really imagine where I would get started.  I can play, I know the mechanics, I can build a character...with a little bit of thought, I just fail when it comes to story ideas.

[Chris Brady]

Most of the games I've played have been violent, but as I'm a fantasy and sword and sorcery fan...

However, White Wolf's Vampire is more about politics than out and out violence.  If a fight breaks out, you've done something wrong.

Mage is supposed to be more about exploring, than fighting.

I've heard Nobilis is somewhat light on the combat aspect as well...

http://firefly-games.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=25&osCsid=9185a9e2557df9b8b4b6eac40f7e2fca
Is a faery game, but although yes, you can fight, it's with the idea of young children in mind, so fighting should really be the last thing you do.  I rather like it, actually.  Wish I could find my copy.

[ReijiTabibito]

Most of the games I've played have been violent, but as I'm a fantasy and sword and sorcery fan...

Yeah.  I know.  Comes with the territory.  What is it about the Middle Ages that breeds combat?

However, White Wolf's Vampire is more about politics than out and out violence.  If a fight breaks out, you've done something wrong.

I know Vampire.  Never played it.  Never want to.  If I want to play a game about politics, I'll go and play Diplomacy.  At least there I don't have to bow to some pretentious ponce simply by virtue of the fact that he got to be born before I was.

Mage is supposed to be more about exploring, than fighting.

Then my GM must have missed the memo, because the one Mage campaign I've been a part of had us fighting off HIT-Mark cyborgs from the Technocracy on a semi-regular basis when we weren't dealing with Marauders.

I've heard Nobilis is somewhat light on the combat aspect as well...

I've heard of Nobilis, too...but without any data to back us up, it's all conjecture on our end.

http://firefly-games.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=25&osCsid=9185a9e2557df9b8b4b6eac40f7e2fca
Is a faery game, but although yes, you can fight, it's with the idea of young children in mind, so fighting should really be the last thing you do.  I rather like it, actually.  Wish I could find my copy.

Don't know much about this one, either.

[Avis habilis]

... out of curiosity, what games have you all played outside of D&D?

Let's see. In no particular order:

Dungeon Crawl Classics, Trail of Cthulhu, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Fiasco, Pathfinder Beginner Box, Feng Shui, Spirit of the Century, Final Stand, Thou Art But a Warrior, ZeFRS, In A Wicked Age, StarSiege: Event Horizon, Castles & Crusades, Tunnels & Trolls, a homebrewed GURPS "ultra light", Over the Edge, Thrash, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Changeling: The Dreaming, Mage: The Ascension, Call of Cthulhu, Star Frontiers, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk (1.0 & 2.0.2.0), Marvel Super Heroes, DC Heroes, a mashup of Rolemaster & Spacemaster, TORG, Rifts, Palladium Fantasy, WFRP 1e, Top Secret, Twilight 2000, FASA Star Trek, Traveler, Villains & Vigilantes, Timemaster, Gamma World (1e, 2e & 4e), Space Opera, Vikings & Valkyries (mid-80s self-published game by a University of Manitoba student) ...

I think that's it. Our Burning Wheel campaign never got off the ground, which is a shame since I was itching to play my knife-master ex-serving girl atheist nun.

[Chris Brady]

Yeah.  I know.  Comes with the territory.  What is it about the Middle Ages that breeds combat?

Because that's what made it different.  Not to mention that all the myths and legends from that era have monsters that want to harm or eat us.

Then my GM must have missed the memo, because the one Mage campaign I've been a part of had us fighting off HIT-Mark cyborgs from the Technocracy on a semi-regular basis when we weren't dealing with Marauders.

That is not the systems fault, but a GM's fault.

Don't know much about this one, either.

So because you've never heard of it, means that GSS is the world's first non-violent RPG?

Fact of the matter is, it's not.  Like GSS there are more violent RPGs in the East than non-violent ones, pretty much like they are over here, in the West.

GSS is nothing special to anyone whose gamed more than one game these last 30 or so years (I've been at it only 27 years, and I've owned and played quite a few of them.)  It's just that it's Japanese in style, that's pretty much it.

Doesn't make it any less interesting, mind you, it's just not some giant trend breaker or paradigm shift.

[Kaedia]

No one has said GSS is the FIRST non-violent RPG. The point of the matter is GSS has proven to be a success in a culture where combat oriented table-tops dominate the scene. Yes a GM can change any setting into a non-combat story should they so desire. It's not difficult. What is difficult is finding players who enjoy non-combat settings. Those who get into table-top as a hobby in the west get presented with a majority combat based and a minority based on story. The story you get in most table-tops is building a bridge from one fight to another. That's the story. Making each fight make sense. Golden Sky Stories isn't a new beginning but is an astounding success much beyond what anyone thought it would be. And it's something to see people willing to back a project on a premise that you help people rather than hurt them.

[Chris Brady]

No one has said GSS is the FIRST non-violent RPG. The point of the matter is GSS has proven to be a success in a culture where combat oriented table-tops dominate the scene.

Several other games in the West that aren't primarily violent have ALSO had success, BEFORE we ever heard of Golden Sky Stories.

I'm not bashing the game, I'm point out that its just not that 'special' and it shouldn't be placed on some pedestal for succeeding at it's crowdfunding project.

And I'd like to point out that in Japan, this 'culture of combat oriented table-tops' DOMINATE OVER THERE TOO!

[Kaedia]

You came into this thread with a negative attitude and I'm asking you to stop. This threads purpose was to originally discuss the Kickstarter for Golden Sky Stories. When it was funded a post was made about its success. You came in with a negative response to that post and since then created more negativity. You may not be bashing the game but you are bashing the people who are enjoying its success. Please stop.

I now ask this thread to be steered toward talking about GSS and not comparing it to other games. It is not the purpose of this thread. If you want to do that create an appropriate thread for it.

[Chris Brady]

Negative?  All right.  If you want to bash D&D, I'd ask you to stop.

Just because you don't like the fact that GSS is one of a bunch of excellent non-violent RPGs, both East and West, doesn't excuse that one of you started to bash the RPG culture in general by claiming we're fans of violence, of which I've been a member of over 25 years.

THAT'S the negative part that started all of this and I would politely ask you from refraining from doing so in the future, thank you.

[ReijiTabibito]

Because that's what made it different.  Not to mention that all the myths and legends from that era have monsters that want to harm or eat us.

All the combat and myths and legends that have monsters that wish to harm us isn't what made the Middle Ages different.  It's a whole phase of civilization's existence.  Look at all the ancient battles that were fought in the BCs, and I'm pretty sure that the Greeks and other ancient civilizations had a monopoly on myths and legends of monsters before the Holy Roman Empire and Charlemagne came about.

That is not the systems fault, but a GM's fault.

That's what I'm saying.  If Mage was supposed to be about exploration and not combat, then that's not the way that my GM played it.  And that's not because of the system, but because of the personal preferences of the GM.

So because you've never heard of it, means that GSS is the world's first non-violent RPG?

Fact of the matter is, it's not.  Like GSS there are more violent RPGs in the East than non-violent ones, pretty much like they are over here, in the West.

GSS is nothing special to anyone whose gamed more than one game these last 30 or so years (I've been at it only 27 years, and I've owned and played quite a few of them.)  It's just that it's Japanese in style, that's pretty much it.

Doesn't make it any less interesting, mind you, it's just not some giant trend breaker or paradigm shift.

No, I'm not saying because I've never heard of them that GSS is the world's first nonviolent RPG.  I knew about Maid RPG long before I'd heard of GSS.

No, I'm fully aware that Japan has violent RPGs - before I knew of GSS, I knew of Tenra Bansho ZERO as well as Night Wizard, a pair of RPGs that originate in Japan that have combat as a central element.  And there's more: Alshard, Arianrhod, Double Cross, Sword World...all of these are combat-oriented.

Here's my saying, and perhaps I should have said this from the get-go: the fact that GSS succeeded in its funding far beyond anything that was initially conceived shows that you don't need to copy D&D or any of the other RPGs out there to be successful.

[Kaedia]

Negative?  All right.  If you want to bash D&D, I'd ask you to stop.

Just because you don't like the fact that GSS is one of a bunch of excellent non-violent RPGs, both East and West, doesn't excuse that one of you started to bash the RPG culture in general by claiming we're fans of violence, of which I've been a member of over 25 years.

THAT'S the negative part that started all of this and I would politely ask you from refraining from doing so in the future, thank you.

No one bashed D&D. You took a stance trying to see it as everyone was.

[Avis habilis]

Locked at OP's request.